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Frenchfry

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Re: Media Bias?
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2012, 12:22:19 PM »

Because that is what you want to see.  Had you read my initial post I pointed out that I felt it was wrong for Tony Snow to join the Bush Administration and it most certainly, right or wrong, cemented the opinion to many that FOX new pushes a Republican Platform.  That's a legitimate critique. 

So then . . . is it a legitimate question to ask the same of the 19 who have left the newsroom to join the Obama Administration?  Of course it is. 

Fry - the problem is that you want to see everything as "right" or "left" . . . . when it isn't.  The irony is that why you consider this story infinitesimal percentage in terms of the people and impact . . . it is these very persons that we expect to provide us with the news.  I suspect that you would not have the same feeling if a Republican were in the White House.  I don't really care who is in the White House - this is not OK - in my opinion.
Interesting that I made no mention of right or left in the quoted text yet you're still harping about it.

Obama very well may have more right-wingers in his administration than lefties for all I know...wouldn't doubt that a bit.

As for your attempt to recruit other tin-foil members.....just drop the hyperbole and make a direct connection to support your allegation.

Make your case on why you support this particular conspiratorial story.

Just saying it COULD happen isn't good enough.
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This is what I see when I visit:

"Sorry Frenchfry, you are banned from posting and sending personal messages on this forum.
This ban is not set to expire."

No emails, no warnings, no communication whatsoever...just that ban

May be what happened to the other libs as well.

I guess disabling the report to admin link only on the lib side was indicative of the slanted games they play.

Enjoy your spoon-fed Faux News type right-wing echo-chamber.

Edited to add:

This is the only way to answer some of the questions posed:

1) I did nothing to warrant the banishment, it's political.

2) It's the router that's blocked but considering all the nonsense right-wing games being played by those running the site...it's just not worth it to bypass the banishment block.

3) The moron stalkers from MT contemplating a visit will be considered a threat and can expect to have a bad day if they act upon those idiotic thoughts.

bumfunkegypt@live.com

ducksoup

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Re: Media Bias?
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2012, 12:22:37 PM »

This topic is a mess.  The blending of two somewhat related things to make them equal.

Media bias is best viewed as each individual media outlet on its own merit.  Journalists should be viewed as individuals even within those outlets.

Journalists are supposed to be trained to eliminate bias as much as possible.  However, they are still people and ALL people have biases.  Even as one reporter can work diligently to not show any bias in one subject, he/she may still show bias in another without intending.

As far as “proof” that the media (except fox on television and the various right wing radio) is biased is, I think, usually trumped up.  Most media, in my opinion, do try to remain in the middle, although individuals can stray one way or another within the middle.  My opinion is that when those that want to justify a blatantly unbiased media, they use false claims.  Most media have “human interest” stories.  They are not of any bias, but still will be called “liberal” because the story is about about the poor, or the downtrodden.  Just like in NOLA after the hurricane.  Was reporting about all of the stranded people “liberal” because it was about helpless stranded mostly poor people, or was it just news?

So, is a journalist, or several, going to work for ANY administration a clear victory for those claiming media bias?  Does it mean that ABC is biased because one reporter went to work for Obama or Bush?  No.  Does it mean that the one reporter has personal leanings that can show as bias? Yes, but still that does not mean that it would.  Now, that said, there are many reporters on both sides that do not try to hide their leanings whether they go to work for an administration or not.

Claiming “ELMO” is hilarious.  How can it be right to be discussing media bias when one wants to eliminate such a big part of the discussion?  It allows the beating of what that side perceives as left wing bias while ignoring any right wing bias.

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Frenchfry

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Re: Media Bias?
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2012, 12:33:01 PM »

Here is an article that offers research and polls to support findings on the issue of Media bias
Media Research Center Inc. (MRC) is a conservative media watchdog group run by president and founder Brent Bozell. In 2006 the MRC had total revenue of $10.8 million and 50 full-time staff members. It is predominately funded by larger right-wing foundations (see below) with other comparatively minor sources of income from rental income and investments. In it's 2006 annual report, the group's founder wrote that MRC "continued to regularly provide intellectual ammunition to conservative activists, arming them with the weapons to fight the leftist press.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Media_Research_Center

Ironic considering the topic.
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This is what I see when I visit:

"Sorry Frenchfry, you are banned from posting and sending personal messages on this forum.
This ban is not set to expire."

No emails, no warnings, no communication whatsoever...just that ban

May be what happened to the other libs as well.

I guess disabling the report to admin link only on the lib side was indicative of the slanted games they play.

Enjoy your spoon-fed Faux News type right-wing echo-chamber.

Edited to add:

This is the only way to answer some of the questions posed:

1) I did nothing to warrant the banishment, it's political.

2) It's the router that's blocked but considering all the nonsense right-wing games being played by those running the site...it's just not worth it to bypass the banishment block.

3) The moron stalkers from MT contemplating a visit will be considered a threat and can expect to have a bad day if they act upon those idiotic thoughts.

bumfunkegypt@live.com

excelsior

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Re: Media Bias?
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2012, 02:08:46 PM »

Follow the money...

SourceWatch > The Center for Media and Democracy (CMD) > John Stauber

Guess where John falls on the political spectrum?
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Will Sweat

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Re: Media Bias?
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2012, 03:02:46 PM »

Interesting that I made no mention of right or left in the quoted text yet you're still harping about it.

Obama very well may have more right-wingers in his administration than lefties for all I know...wouldn't doubt that a bit.

As for your attempt to recruit other tin-foil members.....just drop the hyperbole and make a direct connection to support your allegation.

Make your case on why you support this particular conspiratorial story.

Just saying it COULD happen isn't good enough.

I have no desire to "recruit" anyone - and I have not theory.  I offered an article and sought opinion on peoples feelings of this being acceptable or not - clearly this is not something you are interested in engaging with. 
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blue2

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Re: Media Bias?
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2012, 03:07:12 PM »

There is a big difference in the position Tony Snow maintained in the Republican admin than the media in Obama's admin.  Tony Snow was the spokesperson.  He didn't set policy or make rules and regulations like the ones Obama has put on his staff.
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Will Sweat

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Re: Media Bias?
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2012, 03:13:00 PM »

This topic is a mess.  The blending of two somewhat related things to make them equal.

Media bias is best viewed as each individual media outlet on its own merit.  Journalists should be viewed as individuals even within those outlets.

Journalists are supposed to be trained to eliminate bias as much as possible.  However, they are still people and ALL people have biases.  Even as one reporter can work diligently to not show any bias in one subject, he/she may still show bias in another without intending.

As far as “proof” that the media (except fox on television and the various right wing radio) is biased is, I think, usually trumped up.  Most media, in my opinion, do try to remain in the middle, although individuals can stray one way or another within the middle.  My opinion is that when those that want to justify a blatantly unbiased media, they use false claims.  Most media have “human interest” stories.  They are not of any bias, but still will be called “liberal” because the story is about about the poor, or the downtrodden.  Just like in NOLA after the hurricane.  Was reporting about all of the stranded people “liberal” because it was about helpless stranded mostly poor people, or was it just news?

So, is a journalist, or several, going to work for ANY administration a clear victory for those claiming media bias?  Does it mean that ABC is biased because one reporter went to work for Obama or Bush?  No.  Does it mean that the one reporter has personal leanings that can show as bias? Yes, but still that does not mean that it would.  Now, that said, there are many reporters on both sides that do not try to hide their leanings whether they go to work for an administration or not.

Claiming “ELMO” is hilarious.  How can it be right to be discussing media bias when one wants to eliminate such a big part of the discussion?  It allows the beating of what that side perceives as left wing bias while ignoring any right wing bias.



Actually Duck we will disagree.  Maybe the title of the thread should have been crafted better and for that I take responsiblity. 

I think the question that I proposed was and remains - is it OK to have so many people leave the media and go into politics?  My position would be that it isn't and that it blurs the line.  Of course that is my opinion.

I never offered proof either way and was not attempting to do so. 

We will also differ on the idea of calling an ELMO.  For me the whole thing of bashing FOX news or anyone or any posit on that does not conform is tiring - don't you think?  I get it . . . this board is divided in two very polar opposite sides and if you express an opinion that does not conform with the vocal sides you get the treatment - I get that. 

I believe you misunderstood my intent and wonder if you took the time to read my first post - I did not wish to quell anything in terms of a discuss of should journalist go from the media to the administration (this or anyother).  Anyhow - color it however you want. 
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LetsGoWings

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Re: Media Bias?
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2012, 03:35:44 PM »

Here is what the the Fox News bashing reminds me of:


It is obvious extremely biased and at times incorrect. Most people know this, and it is fairly obvious the ones who still completely trust it will continue doing that regardless of how much people post about it. So, why continue doing it when it is obviously not going to change a single thing? Why not have discussions about other networks?
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ducksoup

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Re: Media Bias?
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2012, 03:42:32 PM »

Actually Duck we will disagree.  Maybe the title of the thread should have been crafted better and for that I take responsiblity. 

I think the question that I proposed was and remains - is it OK to have so many people leave the media and go into politics?  My position would be that it isn't and that it blurs the line.  Of course that is my opinion.

I never offered proof either way and was not attempting to do so. 

We will also differ on the idea of calling an ELMO.  For me the whole thing of bashing FOX news or anyone or any posit on that does not conform is tiring - don't you think?  I get it . . . this board is divided in two very polar opposite sides and if you express an opinion that does not conform with the vocal sides you get the treatment - I get that. 

I believe you misunderstood my intent and wonder if you took the time to read my first post - I did not wish to quell anything in terms of a discuss of should journalist go from the media to the administration (this or anyother).  Anyhow - color it however you want. 


Maybe I do not understand your position in your OP. 

If you are saying Fox should not be considered because it is obviously biased, maybe you have a point.  However, when the question becomes “is ABC biased” it becomes too murky.  What qualifies as left or right.  Just as I mentioned.  Is a human interest story “liberal” or just news.  Is talking about deficits news or “conservative”.  Too much subjectivity to be anything but personal opinion. 

A separate thing is “should media people be in an administration?”  To be honest, I don’t see where it matters.  I mean people come from somewhere.  I think it CAN make a difference in some cases.  With the predominance of big bank or Wall Street being in charge of economic sectors of the administration is likely very bad.  Oil people in charge of energy?  Maybe, maybe not.  Educators in the dept. of Education?   Shouldn't the Surgeon General be a doctor?  I think in most cases all have to be judged as individuals, not profession, with the exception of econ.  There seems to be a systemic problem with that particular revolving door.  Aside from that, it could be easy enough to go back to Bush and pick "biased" choices that he appointed.  It is all just talk to try and make the other sound like evil bad guys.

So, to answer what I am guessing is your question.  No, I do not think that there is an inherent problem hiring anyone from any sector, any more than another.  If the question you asked whether they will appear biased AFTER they leave... well, that is something they had better have thought of.

Tony Snow went from being a part of a partisan network to being a partisan Press Secretary.  That is a part of that job, maybe should not be, but it is.  I think at the time it raised eyes because it was such an obvious thing.  Kind of like it was always a partisan position but given a wink and a nod.

Why should it be “wrong” for someone in media to work for any admin?  It seems the only way is to jump to a conclusion that the one taking the job HAS to be biased and therefore retroactively makes anything that they wrote biased.  I guess that is my problem with your topic.  With titling it “media bias”, but talking about some individuals in a completely different situation makes one come to the conclusion that you believe that the media STARTS with a left wing bias, and that this just proves your case.  Maybe that is not your intent, but it is what I perceive from it.

Sorry if I am flailing around trying to figure out the question because it seems structured to create a one-sided discussion. 
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lordfly

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Re: Media Bias?
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2012, 04:10:11 PM »

Why not have discussions about other networks?

Because it's the same thing in reverse. "MSNBC/PBS/NPR/CNN is a liberal commie socialist plot to undermine True American Values!" goes the refrain.
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LetsGoWings

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Re: Media Bias?
« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2012, 04:13:36 PM »

Because it's the same thing in reverse. "MSNBC/PBS/NPR/CNN is a liberal commie socialist plot to undermine True American Values!" goes the refrain.
Very true, it is the same on both sides.
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Great advice from another poster on this forum, we should all live by this:

"I'd advise against anyone contemplating sullying the reputation of any of the candidates without solid proof. "

lordfly

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Re: Media Bias?
« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2012, 04:55:15 PM »

The truth is that each media source has its story to tell - you just have to find the one with the narrative you're comfortable with, whether it's "the conservatives are ruining the country" or "the liberals are all secret muslim enemies of america" or even "here is the news, please."

American journalism's a joke, anyway. Did you guys know that South Sudan just shut off its oil pipeline to Sudan? No? Well, it might make sense when gas spikes in a few months due to minor disruption in supply. But it's not like you'd find it out on the cable news networks. Instead, a 4 hour tribute of Whitney Houston, and oh my god what did Reuben Stoddard do to his HAIROMIGAWD and did you hear what BRITNEY SAID LAST NIGHT ON "SUPERLATE WITH CHUCKLE MCJERKENSTEIN?" dfklgjhsdflkghdflkj.

Sorry, I digress. Calling any of the news channels "news" at this point is pretty laughable.

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Will Sweat

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Re: Media Bias?
« Reply #27 on: February 19, 2012, 05:51:31 PM »


Maybe I do not understand your position in your OP. 

If you are saying Fox should not be considered because it is obviously biased, maybe you have a point.  However, when the question becomes is ABC biased it becomes too murky.  What qualifies as left or right.  Just as I mentioned.  Is a human interest story liberal or just news.  Is talking about deficits news or Conservative.  Too much subjectivity to be anything but personal opinion. 

A separate thing is should media people be in an administration?”  To be honest, I don't see where it matters.  I mean people come from somewhere.  I think it CAN make a difference in some cases.  With the predominance of big bank or Wall Street being in charge of economic sectors of the administration is likely very bad.  Oil people in charge of energy?  Maybe, maybe not.  Educators in the dept. of Education?   Shouldn't the Surgeon General be a doctor?  I think in most cases all have to be judged as individuals, not profession, with the exception of econ.  There seems to be a systemic problem with that particular revolving door.  Aside from that, it could be easy enough to go back to Bush and pick "biased" choices that he appointed.  It is all just talk to try and make the other sound like evil bad guys.

So, to answer what I am guessing is your question.  No, I do not think that there is an inherent problem hiring anyone from any sector, any more than another.  If the question you asked whether they will appear biased AFTER they leave... well, that is something they had better have thought of.

Tony Snow went from being a part of a partisan network to being a partisan Press Secretary.  That is a part of that job, maybe should not be, but it is.  I think at the time it raised eyes because it was such an obvious thing.  Kind of like it was always a partisan position but given a wink and a nod.

Why should it be wrong for someone in media to work for any admin?  It seems the only way is to jump to a conclusion that the one taking the job HAS to be biased and therefore retroactively makes anything that they wrote biased.  I guess that is my problem with your topic.  With titling it Media bias”, but talking about some individuals in a completely different situation makes one come to the conclusion that you believe that the media STARTS with a left wing bias, and that this just proves your case.  Maybe that is not your intent, but it is what I perceive from it.

Sorry if I am flailing around trying to figure out the question because it seems structured to create a one-sided discussion. 


I was really not even looking at the networks but the ethics involved.  In truth, I did not mention networks at all and frankly - don't care which network someone is from.  In terms of FOX - my point is . . . enough already.  There is already a thread on this bb about FOX and how a portion of the posters hate and how a portion love them - why drag that same dead horse into another thread?  To me the whole "FOX" news argument is low hanging fruit. 

The problem that I have is that having news people move into political advocacy is, I  believe, not appropriate.  I believe this because it blurs the lines of objectivity.  Do I believe that reporters have always held political ideals - sure, of course.  But - I think that within the last ten, fifteen years we have seen more and more "advocacy" journalism creep into reporting.  Consider - right now on this board there is a thread about the "drum beats of war for Iran" and on that thread people have posted how they believe the media is playing up a "message" (my word) if you will.  That is the relationship that I am concerned with and that was my point - in essence - are we being given the news with facts or are we being "reported" to?   
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ducksoup

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Re: Media Bias?
« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2012, 06:31:35 PM »

I was really not even looking at the networks but the ethics involved.  In truth, I did not mention networks at all and frankly - don't care which network someone is from.  In terms of FOX - my point is . . . enough already.  There is already a thread on this bb about FOX and how a portion of the posters hate and how a portion love them - why drag that same dead horse into another thread?  To me the whole "FOX" news argument is low hanging fruit. 

Your choice of topic title did that.  You cannot say "media bias" and not mean media.

Quote
The problem that I have is that having news people move into political advocacy is, I  believe, not appropriate.  I believe this because it blurs the lines of objectivity.  Do I believe that reporters have always held political ideals - sure, of course.  But - I think that within the last ten, fifteen years we have seen more and more "advocacy" journalism creep into reporting.  Consider - right now on this board there is a thread about the "drum beats of war for Iran" and on that thread people have posted how they believe the media is playing up a "message" (my word) if you will.  That is the relationship that I am concerned with and that was my point - in essence - are we being given the news with facts or are we being "reported" to?   

Ahhh, totally different than anything I got from your posts.  Yes, advocacy journalism is becoming bad.  I was shocked when  it came out that Bush was paying established journalists to do propaganda articles in the name of journalism. 

However, I do not see how going from a journalist job to an admin job is necessarily wrong, unless you feel that there is a quid pro qua from past reporting or intentional bias before the move. 

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LetsGoWings

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Re: Media Bias?
« Reply #29 on: February 19, 2012, 06:48:08 PM »

Your choice of topic title did that.  You cannot say "media bias" and not mean media.

Ahhh, totally different than anything I got from your posts.  Yes, advocacy journalism is becoming bad.  I was shocked when  it came out that Bush was paying established journalists to do propaganda articles in the name of journalism. 

However, I do not see how going from a journalist job to an admin job is necessarily wrong, unless you feel that there is a quid pro qua from past reporting or intentional bias before the move.
Quid pro quo*
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Great advice from another poster on this forum, we should all live by this:

"I'd advise against anyone contemplating sullying the reputation of any of the candidates without solid proof. "
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