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The Fuzz

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Perfect for Michigan road construction?
« on: July 16, 2017, 07:48:30 AM »

While channel surfing yesterday I saw a Science show geared towards high school aged kids and they were showcasing a concrete material called ECC.  Had never heard of it before but has polymer strands as a filler that gives it unique bend characteristics that doesn't fatigue like regular concrete under stress and strain curves.

Researched it a little and it appears UM and MDOT are experimenting with it on some road applications. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineered_cementitious_composite

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blue2

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Re: Perfect for Michigan road construction?
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2017, 10:32:28 AM »

Some years ago Owens Corning experimented with loose fiberglass fibers.  i think they found over time the concrete cause the fibers to disintegrate..
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The Fuzz

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Re: Perfect for Michigan road construction?
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2017, 11:05:14 AM »

Wonder what that "over time" factor would be.  If it is more than or equal to the cycle we bust up a concrete road and start over then it may be a save based on that just alone.

There are some pretty chemically resistant co-polymers out there nowadays that may work better....there are some pretty strong alkaline based solutions produced out of current Portland Cement that are aggressive enough to tear into some fibers, good point.
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Professor H

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Re: Perfect for Michigan road construction?
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2017, 01:19:56 PM »

Or they could go back and learn how the romans did it  - as their stuff is still around! 
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SidecarFlip

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Re: Perfect for Michigan road construction?
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2017, 04:38:54 PM »

I am glad the MCRC got out of road building.  The level of quality was on par with a log road.
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blue2

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Re: Perfect for Michigan road construction?
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2017, 07:13:09 PM »

Wish I saved the article.  A couple of southern towns with 30,000 citizens has less than 10 employees. They contract everything.  And if it isn't going well they fire them and find another contractor,,
Sounds like a winner to me
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Monroe Native

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Re: Perfect for Michigan road construction?
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2017, 08:51:33 PM »

Wish I saved the article.  A couple of southern towns with 30,000 citizens has less than 10 employees. They contract everything.  And if it isn't going well they fire them and find another contractor,,
Sounds like a winner to me

For sure.

And why ANY MUNICIPALITY doesn't have some form of a volunteer fire department is simply beyond me.

I think it is a sure sign to me that Democrats and Union Sympathizers run the town when that isn't the case.

Either that - or this is the way they've always done it... so we have to have full time people sitting around waiting for something to happen...  cause that is the way we've always done it.

Either that - or they simply haven't run out of other peoples money yet.
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BigRedDog

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Re: Perfect for Michigan road construction?
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2017, 09:26:35 PM »

Or they could go back and learn how the romans did it  - as their stuff is still around!

Not a true 'apples to apples' comparison but your point is still somewhat valid.

First off, the Romans used slave labor so there was no real incentive to hurry with the project.  And they don't have the heavy loads even today that we have. 

But, they did have some great construction techniques that are not followed today...  probably too costly according to some bean counter.  The first thing they did was they dug down below ground level so they could build a base and also to allow for drainage.  Then they would add up to 7 different layers of material. 

I am glad the MCRC got out of road building.  The level of quality was on par with a log road.

If you mean a road built through the woods for logging (usually during the winter when everything is frozen) they that's a valid point.  If you're talking using logs as a base for a road across very soft areas (corduroy road) then that is actually one of the techniques the Romans did use.  General Hull did the same thing while building the military supply road for use in the War of 1812.  Take US Turnpike (Fort Street) to the Huron River and the old logs are still visible.  That road base is over 200 years old and across some of the softest 'wetlands' in the state. 


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Professor H

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Re: Perfect for Michigan road construction?
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2017, 09:49:01 AM »

For sure.

And why ANY MUNICIPALITY doesn't have some form of a volunteer fire department is simply beyond me.

I think it is a sure sign to me that Democrats and Union Sympathizers run the town when that isn't the case.

Either that - or this is the way they've always done it... so we have to have full time people sitting around waiting for something to happen...  cause that is the way we've always done it.

Either that - or they simply haven't run out of other peoples money yet.
Don't stop at fire - there are many opportunities to volunteer to be a police officer as well... 

I just read about volunteer pot hole fillers in some community -   

Problems are finding people willing to "give" their time and effort and also have transportation - and pass background checks... 

There are many factors in why you have the services you do... 
Monroe started with volunteer organizations - as did many communities across the land - but with greater call volumes, structures to cover, and a tax base - they moved based on studies to form departments and even used studies to the location of their central station (until now)

While volunteers do provide 70% of services across the land  and cover 51% of the populous - many forget that OSHA rulings require they meet the same level of training and safety, increasing the time requirements for those volunteers.   
Not sure how many of today's youth are willing to put in the hours and training for little or no pay.

And the flip side is those with good paying jobs are at risk if they get injured on this "volunteer" job...  as the various government and state laws never will protect them or make them whole.   The job isn't any less dangerous based on how much someone is paid, or if they do it full or part time.   

The aging population of "volunteers" is also a hidden danger.    20-30%  over the age of 50 (2014)

2015 NFPA reports show that the risks increase as you get older - common sense.

25 firefighter deaths age 51-60
18 firefighter deaths  age 61 - older   

Not a job for 60 yo's! 
https://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf/publications/ff_fatalities_2015.pdf

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Monroe Native

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Re: Perfect for Michigan road construction?
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2017, 11:12:46 PM »

Don't stop at fire - there are many opportunities to volunteer to be a police officer as well... 

I just read about volunteer pot hole fillers in some community -   

Problems are finding people willing to "give" their time and effort and also have transportation - and pass background checks... 

There are many factors in why you have the services you do... 
Monroe started with volunteer organizations - as did many communities across the land - but with greater call volumes, structures to cover, and a tax base - they moved based on studies to form departments and even used studies to the location of their central station (until now)

While volunteers do provide 70% of services across the land  and cover 51% of the populous - many forget that OSHA rulings require they meet the same level of training and safety, increasing the time requirements for those volunteers.   
Not sure how many of today's youth are willing to put in the hours and training for little or no pay.

And the flip side is those with good paying jobs are at risk if they get injured on this "volunteer" job...  as the various government and state laws never will protect them or make them whole.   The job isn't any less dangerous based on how much someone is paid, or if they do it full or part time.   

The aging population of "volunteers" is also a hidden danger.    20-30%  over the age of 50 (2014)

2015 NFPA reports show that the risks increase as you get older - common sense.

25 firefighter deaths age 51-60
18 firefighter deaths  age 61 - older   

Not a job for 60 yo's! 
https://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf/publications/ff_fatalities_2015.pdf

Is that why they kicked you out when the did Prof?

 ;)

Fact of the matter is - if my house in the City catches on fire - Monroe Township will probably be the one to put it out. 

Enough said?

I'd be happy to be a volunteer cop, or fire for that matter.  Training - yep - part of the gig.

Many municipalities have incentives to make it worth the volunteers time over the long haul.  It isn't hard to do, and much cheaper than a full time department.

As far as the volunteer risk - the municipalities can provide coverage against most of those risks - and they should.  They do it for the full timers - what is the big deal there?  Oh - I'm sure the Unions have tried to throw up road blocks against it.

It would be nice if they would leave an engine on my side of town so the volunteers would have more than garden hoses to fight fires with.

Pretty impressive when a house across the street from the fire station burns down - don't you think?
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blue2

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Re: Perfect for Michigan road construction?
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2017, 06:44:52 AM »

Bedford isn't any better anymore.   The church that was totally destroyed was a sin.   It was a huge complex spread out. The dumbasses pushed the flames from the building on fire into the rest of the structure..
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SidecarFlip

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Re: Perfect for Michigan road construction?
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2017, 09:45:12 PM »

I'll probably get hell for this but....

Anytime the tinkertoy Summerfield Township Fire Department is involved (and they were there and got the truck stuck in the mud), everything goes to shitte pretty fast.  Talk about an ongoing Chinese fire drill, the SVFD is it.
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The Fuzz

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Re: Perfect for Michigan road construction?
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2017, 08:28:30 AM »

I would imagine that there would be a skill set level difference within the VFD communities just because of the quality of people willing to volunteer.  Regardless, tip of my hat to those who take time out of their personal lives to serve their communities. 
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BigRedDog

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Re: Perfect for Michigan road construction?
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2017, 09:47:48 AM »

I'll probably get hell for this but....

Anytime the tinkertoy Summerfield Township Fire Department is involved (and they were there and got the truck stuck in the mud), everything goes to shitte pretty fast.  Talk about an ongoing Chinese fire drill, the SVFD is it.

It's not at all uncommon to get an emergency response vehicle stuck...   and quite often it's in the mud.

It would be great if all emergency scenes were completely paved...

and with a half a dozen fire hydrants within a 100 feet...

and a large LZ in case you need a medevac chopper to respond...

But reality is a little different and quite often (especially in March in Michigan) there will be mud involved!!!  One of the reason most emergency response vehicles come equipped with tow hooks as standard equipment.  Quite often at a fire scene you just need to get your pumper 'a little closer' to the fire. 

I've never yet been to a fire where we couldn't extract all of our vehicles when we were done. 
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BigRedDog

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Re: Perfect for Michigan road construction?
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2017, 09:51:56 AM »

Bedford isn't any better anymore.   The church that was totally destroyed was a sin.   It was a huge complex spread out. The dumbasses pushed the flames from the building on fire into the rest of the structure..

We were in Florida when the church burned so I only saw news reports with a few short videos. 

I do know there were some extraordinarily high winds that day which obviously had a major impact on the fire and on the tactics one would use to fight that fire.  The last thing anyone would do is put someone directly in front of the fire to try and 'stop' it.  You can build a new church but you can't build a new person.
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