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Categories => News => Topic started by: Baggins on September 12, 2012, 10:05:26 AM

Title: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Baggins on September 12, 2012, 10:05:26 AM
Hold on to your butts, this might get bumpy... :-\

TRIPOLI, Libya (AP) - The U.S. ambassador to Libya and three other Americans were killed in an attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi by protesters angry over a film that ridiculed Islam's Prophet Muhammad.

Ambassador Chris Stevens, 52, died as he and a group of embassy employees went to the consulate to try to evacuate staff as the building came under attack by a mob firing machine-guns and rocket-propelled grenades. He was the first U.S. ambassador to be killed in the line of duty since 1979.

President Barack Obama ordered increased security to protect American diplomatic personnel around world. "I strongly condemn the outrageous attack on our diplomatic facility in Benghazi," Obama said, adding the four Americans "exemplified America's commitment to freedom, justice, and partnership with nations and people around the globe."


http://apnews.myway.com/article/20120912/DA1891AG2.html (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20120912/DA1891AG2.html)


All this violence over a film people...Seriously... ???
How ignorant is that, you can't claim to be of a peaceful religion and then go off your nut with machine guns... :o
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Frenchfry on September 12, 2012, 10:57:35 AM
Before the rally, the private Al Nas television channel, run by Salafists, played some of the video posted on YouTube, which a host and a commentator said insulted Islam. The video shown on the channel refers to Muhammad and his followers as "child lovers." It also shows the prophet speaking to a supposed Muslim donkey, asking him whether he loves women.

The channel's enraged host and a commentator then demanded to know how Islam could be treated in such a debasing way.

The video has been promoted online by Florida preacher Terry Jones, whose 2011 burning of a Koran triggered riots in Afghanistan. In a statement, Jones called the assault on the embassy in Egypt proof that Muslims "have no tolerance for anything outside of Muhammad."
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2012/09/us-ambassador-killed-libya.html (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2012/09/us-ambassador-killed-libya.html)

I'm surprised they haven't assassinated that "preacher" Terry Jones moron yet.

U.S. Marines Headed To Tripoli As Reinforcements (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pRE8xe5AM8&feature=plcp#)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Baggins on September 12, 2012, 11:05:31 AM
Mohammad was a pedophile...His favorite wife was 6 years old...Go ahead, look it up...!

Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monroe Native on September 12, 2012, 12:09:01 PM
Mohammad was a pedophile...His favorite wife was 6 years old...Go ahead, look it up...!

Watch it - don't say anything bad about Mohammad or the peaceful Muslims might kill some more Americans.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: livewire on September 12, 2012, 12:22:11 PM
Watch it - don't say anything bad about Mohammad or the peaceful Muslims might kill some more Americans.

"Peaceful Muslims"...  what an oxymoron.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on September 12, 2012, 12:30:16 PM
"Peaceful Muslims"...  what an oxymoron.

Watch it - don't say anything bad about Mohammad or the peaceful Muslims might kill some more Americans.

I know a lot of peacful Muslims.  I also know of a lot of violent christians.  There are whackos in every religion not just the one you don't believe in.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monroe Native on September 12, 2012, 12:45:35 PM
I know a lot of peacful Muslims.  I also know of a lot of violent christians.  There are whackos in every religion not just the one you don't believe in.

I will buy your statement.

However lets put it in perspective with a little quiz.

1.  What was the religion of the individuals who bombed the World Trade Center in 1993?
2.  What was the religion of the individuals who carried out the 9/11 attacks on the United States?
3.  What was the religion of the individuals who attacked the USS Cole?
4.  What was the religion of the Fort Hood shooter?
5.  What is the religion of Iran and Saudi Arabia?
6.  How many other religions are free to openly worship their God in Iran and Saudi Arabia?
7.  What happens to people who try to preach Christianity in Iran?
8.  How is the religion of Ahmajenidad (President of Iran) who openly vows to destroy a neighboring country?

Why do we keep pretending that the people who did all these things belong to a peaceful Religion?

Please fell free to come up with a list of acts that Christians have done to post up here to show how radical and violent we are.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on September 12, 2012, 12:54:52 PM
Hmmm abortion clinic bombings.  The Crusades.  That should cover it 10 fold.

As for the rest of your statements, have you actually done any research on Islam or are you just going by what you hear?  Having known some Muslims, and doing independant research, I can tell you that it is a peaceful religion and the extremeists are taking certain passages out of context just like Christians do regarding the discrimination and beating of homosexuals.

If you have any questions about Islam I would gladly explain it to you with the knowledge I have.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monroe Native on September 12, 2012, 01:05:45 PM
Hmmm abortion clinic bombings.  The Crusades.  That should cover it 10 fold.

As for the rest of your statements, have you actually done any research on Islam or are you just going by what you hear?  Having known some Muslims, and doing independant research, I can tell you that it is a peaceful religion and the extremeists are taking certain passages out of context just like Christians do regarding the discrimination and beating of homosexuals.

If you have any questions about Islam I would gladly explain it to you with the knowledge I have.

Yes, I have in fact read and studied about Islam.

Let me offer you an opportunity.

I will pay ALL your expenses for a nice trip to Iran.  I hear it is a beautiful country according to several friends I have that used to live there - but had to leave during the 1970's because they were Christian and wanted to continue being alive.

All I ask you to do is go to the main square in town and hand out 1000 Bibles that I will pay for.  That shouldn't take more then an hour or two, and you can spend the rest of the trip doing whatever you want to.

If you are willing I would GLADLY fund this trip so you can explore how peaceful a fundamentalist Muslim regime can be.

Now - if you don't like planes I will make the same offer for you to go up to Dearborn during their next Arab Festival to do the same thing.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on September 12, 2012, 01:33:29 PM


If you are willing I would GLADLY fund this trip so you can explore how peaceful a fundamentalist Muslim regime can be.


You just defeated your own argument right there.  ANY religious fundamentalist is a dangerous person.

If you would like though, I will gladly take you up on your offer for a trip to Iran.  Actually I would prefer the Gaza Strip, but I'll take what I can get.  Maybe I can help out the people in Iran who are protesting their fundamentalist leaders and love America.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: ussoccer26 on September 12, 2012, 01:35:39 PM
Yes, I have in fact read and studied about Islam.

Let me offer you an opportunity.

I will pay ALL your expenses for a nice trip to Iran.  I hear it is a beautiful country according to several friends I have that used to live there - but had to leave during the 1970's because they were Christian and wanted to continue being alive.

All I ask you to do is go to the main square in town and hand out 1000 Bibles that I will pay for.  That shouldn't take more then an hour or two, and you can spend the rest of the trip doing whatever you want to.

If you are willing I would GLADLY fund this trip so you can explore how peaceful a fundamentalist Muslim regime can be.

Now - if you don't like planes I will make the same offer for you to go up to Dearborn during their next Arab Festival to do the same thing.

What the middle east has is no different than how the west was 100 years ago. Religous intolerance and using religion as a tool to control the people is nothing new to anyone.

Islam itself isn't the problem, it's the governments and organizations(Al Qaeda) that twist and use religion to achieve their own goals. That can happen anywhere when you have the perfect enviroment.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on September 12, 2012, 01:43:41 PM
What the middle east has is no different than how the west was 100 years ago. Religous intolerance and using religion as a tool to control the people is nothing new to anyone.

Islam itself isn't the problem, it's the governments and organizations(Al Qaeda) that twist and use religion to achieve their own goals. That can happen anywhere when you have the perfect enviroment.

Excellent post!
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monroe Native on September 12, 2012, 01:53:20 PM
You just defeated your own argument right there.  ANY religious fundamentalist is a dangerous person.

If you would like though, I will gladly take you up on your offer for a trip to Iran.  Actually I would prefer the Gaza Strip, but I'll take what I can get.  Maybe I can help out the people in Iran who are protesting their fundamentalist leaders and love America.

I will respectfully withdraw my offer, I really don't want to see you strung up.

I agree that ANYTHING taken to extremes is a bad thing.

I am not willing to pretend, however, that it is just a small minority of Muslims that are extreme fundamentalists.  The Koran goes into detail on how to behave from the infancy stage, to as the religion grows, to when they are the majority, to excluding tolerance for all other forms of religion.

To deny that is ludicrous - because you can go around the world and see various countries that are in the various stages, and how the Muslims behave and treat those around them.

Using a movie made in the US as a pretense to attack embassies and killing an ambassador and his staff is just an example of the latter stages of the peaceful Muslim religion.  I say pretense because yesterday was CELEBRATE 9/11 day - though I didn't see much coverage of that in the media.  The movie was just an excuse for the attack - to pretend that they were somehow provoked, and their actions were somehow justified.

We live in a culture / society that pushes tolerance.  We shouldn't make the mistake of assigning our motives and values to others that don't share our belief system. 

I will not apologize for not believing that the Muslim religion is a threat to our way of life.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on September 12, 2012, 02:07:35 PM
I will respectfully withdraw my offer, I really don't want to see you strung up.

I agree that ANYTHING taken to extremes is a bad thing.

I am not willing to pretend, however, that it is just a small minority of Muslims that are extreme fundamentalists.  The Koran goes into detail on how to behave from the infancy stage, to as the religion grows, to when they are the majority, to excluding tolerance for all other forms of religion.

To deny that is ludicrous - because you can go around the world and see various countries that are in the various stages, and how the Muslims behave and treat those around them.

Using a movie made in the US as a pretense to attack embassies and killing an ambassador and his staff is just an example of the latter stages of the peaceful Muslim religion.  I say pretense because yesterday was CELEBRATE 9/11 day - though I didn't see much coverage of that in the media.  The movie was just an excuse for the attack - to pretend that they were somehow provoked, and their actions were somehow justified.

We live in a culture / society that pushes tolerance.  We shouldn't make the mistake of assigning our motives and values to others that don't share our belief system. 

I will not apologize for not believing that the Muslim religion is a threat to our way of life.

I'm dead serious.  I would love a trip to the Middle East.  My brother was in Bahrain and said the food was amazing.

So Sharia Law is not ok but Levitican Law is?

If you look at American Muslims they take a very moderate point of view of their religion and understand that the Jihad of conversion is not a major Jihad.  The first Jihad is in ones self to be more like Muhammad.  It's the same believe that a lot of Christians have.  They believe that acting as Jesus would is more important than converting people to Christianity.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Flanders on September 12, 2012, 02:16:56 PM
How was the embassy not defended?? Marines vs Mob??

I'd sure like to know the details..
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Flanders on September 12, 2012, 02:24:37 PM
Funny how the media is focused on Mitt's response instead of Obama's lack thereof.

How could this be??  We gave the peaceful Muslim brotherhood the country and a billion dollars??? what happened?? Perhaps we did not bow low enough during our apologies?
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monroe Native on September 12, 2012, 03:24:54 PM
I'm dead serious.  I would love a trip to the Middle East.  My brother was in Bahrain and said the food was amazing.

I'm serious too.  I've been trying to get an excuse to go for work for years now.  I've come close several times, but always got bumped by other people.

I am told by the company I can go to Dubai, UAE, Bahrain....  Saudi with lots of escort.  Other than that locals cover the work, they don't send in outsiders.

I hear Dubai is just AWESOME.  I want to go bad!
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on September 12, 2012, 03:59:01 PM
Juat got word via twitter that there are people in the streets with signs apologizing for the attacks.  I saw a pic but I'm not at a computer or I would post it.  One of the signs said "Bengahizis Against Terrorism"
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Baggins on September 12, 2012, 05:10:34 PM
Watch it - don't say anything bad about Mohammad or the peaceful Muslims might kill some more Americans.


It's not a bad thing if it's a fact...Seriously, go look it up...!

According to traditional sources, Aisha bint Abu Bakr was six or seven years old when she was betrothed to Muhammad and nine when the marriage was consummated.(for those rusty on the term, consummate means to have sex for the first time between husband and wife.)

We put people in jail for that nowadays...(http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/23.gif)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: ussoccer26 on September 12, 2012, 05:27:20 PM
http://imgur.com/a/tlCyI (http://imgur.com/a/tlCyI)

Link with pictures of the people taking  to the streets with signs.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Baggins on September 12, 2012, 05:30:30 PM
[url]http://imgur.com/a/tlCyI[/url] ([url]http://imgur.com/a/tlCyI[/url])

Link with pictures of the people taking  to the streets with signs.



Thank you, see this is what has been lacking from the Muslim community in the past...Maybe they are finally getting the message.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Flanders on September 12, 2012, 06:12:51 PM

Thank you, see this is what has been lacking from the Muslim community in the past...Maybe they are finally getting the message.

Unfortunately it's the people with the RPG's that send a louder message than the ones with the signs.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Baggins on September 12, 2012, 06:27:43 PM
Unfortunately it's the people with the RPG's that send a louder message than the ones with the signs.


Then you're missing the point of what I said...I don't agree.

When the Muslim community as a whole speaks out against these acts, it sends out a much louder message, and shows the world what imbeciles the militants really are.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Flanders on September 12, 2012, 07:16:47 PM

Then you're missing the point of what I said...I don't agree.

When the Muslim community as a whole speaks out against these acts, it sends out a much louder message, and shows the world what imbeciles the militants really are.

I would say it's when the Muslim community DOES something against these attacks, that's a message that would matter.  Talk is cheap.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monroe Native on September 12, 2012, 08:04:25 PM
I would say it's when the Muslim community DOES something against these attacks, that's a message that would matter.  Talk is cheap.

I totally agree. 

I want to see the governments of these countries (does Libya have a government?) go after the radicals and police themselves. 

Can you imagine the world outcry in the US if Mahmoud Ahmajinedad or one of his staff were killed in his next trip to NY? 

Lets see all the Arab countries including Iran and Egypt condemn these acts.  It won't happen.  They support the radicals.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: The Fuzz on September 12, 2012, 08:07:32 PM
Check your preferred news wires....lots breaking on this including it was a well planned in advance attack.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: ell on September 12, 2012, 08:31:32 PM
People, people, people.  Have we not learned to wait a day or too before commenting on these types of stories.  It's great the what was posted for those who turn on MT before their TV or radio.  But let's wait a bit until the evidence begins to surface, and only take that with a grain of salt.

I would no sooner take the actions of radical Muslims as being typical of their religion as I would the actions of the KKK as being representative of white Protestants.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Pax on September 12, 2012, 09:08:24 PM
     This is what I've gotten from the few mentions of this particular killing I've bothered to peruse: the corporation US! overthrew the only man capable of holding the antagonistic tribes of Libya together in some form of unity after arming said man's enemies to the teeth and are somewhat surprised that said barbarians have offed one of the infiltrator's key men.  Whoop de Doo.  No surprise there, folks: sometimes when you play with fire ya get your fingers singed... 

     Wouldn't a better thread title be Isn't It Time for the US to Start Minding It's Own Friggin' Business?
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: ell on September 12, 2012, 09:12:50 PM
Quote from: Pax link=topic=26997.msg574938#msg574938 date=1347498504 

     Wouldn't a better thread title be [i
Isn't It Time for the US to Start Minding It's Own Friggin' Business?[/i]

I'm pretty okay with this.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: livewire on September 12, 2012, 09:43:29 PM
[url]http://imgur.com/a/tlCyI[/url] ([url]http://imgur.com/a/tlCyI[/url])

Link with pictures of the people taking  to the streets with signs.


Wow!

Refreshing, to say the least.  I hope it was sincere, and not just a show for the cameras.

I wonder what the signs written in Arabic said?
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Frenchfry on September 13, 2012, 05:11:09 AM
"The United States Condemns In The Strongest Terms This Outrageous & Shocking Attack" Pres Obama (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r81F1Uy4p7A&feature=plcp#)

Libyan protesters kill American ambassador (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHNzxH8qMUA&feature=plcp#)

Martin Bashir - Romney tries to turn any situation into a political profit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vei0U-9XOgM&feature=plcp#ws)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Frenchfry on September 13, 2012, 05:12:49 AM
Martin Bashir - Romney doubles down on politicizing national tragedy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfhfX_nGdU4&feature=plcp#ws)

Martin Bashir - Pres. Obama: Romney 'shoots firsts and aims later' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZgGJygmjoM&feature=plcp#ws)

Mitt Romney Takes Heat for Libya Comments (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AJn-6VsHf0&feature=plcp#ws)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Frenchfry on September 13, 2012, 05:16:12 AM
Mitt Romney Embassy Attack Comments Backfire (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzgMEAEcM-s&feature=plcp#ws)

Libya Attack May Have Been Planned (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEkWGdV3rH4&feature=plcp#ws)

Cuss warning:
Palin Rips Obama After Libya Consulate Attack (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwySJlrMcp4&feature=plcp#ws)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Frenchfry on September 13, 2012, 05:17:27 AM
Rachel Maddow - Romney's conduct unbecoming (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xAo5BBp9Sk&feature=plcp#ws)

Mitt Romney's foreign policy blunder (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niIq4SLeZTA&feature=plcp#ws)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monroe Native on September 13, 2012, 07:01:09 AM
We need to rename the board Monroe Watches instead of Monroe Talks if all some posters can do is put up video after video.

Another embassy attacked, this time in Yeman.  I guess the tolerance message didn't get out to everyone.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on September 13, 2012, 07:52:15 AM
If you don't want to watch the videos, don't but complaining about them won't make them go anywhere.  Some of us enjoy watching the videos that Fry posts because he gets them from different sources than we look at.  If you want to counter with your own videos feel free.  I'll gladly watch those too.  Goddess knows I watched enough crazy Kent Hovind videos that Less posted in the religon section.

Back on topic...

The Egyptian president has condemned the attacks.

Quote
Egyptian President Mohamed Mursi condemned the attack on the American consulate in Benghazi and said his government was able to protect foreign embassies on Egyptian soil.


Businessweek
 
More About "libyan government condemns attacks"


Allen Stanford: A Libyan Connection?
 Mon March 30, 2009, 2:02pm EDT

India Condemns 'Brutal' Stabbing of Student in Australia
 Mon January 04, 2010, 10:13am EST

Qatar May Win Big If Libyan Rebels Prevail
 Thu July 14, 2011, 5:45pm EDT
“What happened is unacceptable, rejected. The Prophet Muhammad taught us to respect human life,” Mursi said in a speech broadcast live from Brussels today, referring to the Sept. 11 attack on the U.S. consulate in Libya in which the ambassador and three other American staff were killed.

The Islamist leader said he supported peaceful protests, but that Muslims rejected attacks on people, embassies and other sites. “The Prophet Muhammad and Islamic sanctities are red lines for all of us,” he said.


http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-09-13/egyptian-president-condemns-attack-on-u-dot-s-dot-mission-in-libya (http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-09-13/egyptian-president-condemns-attack-on-u-dot-s-dot-mission-in-libya)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monroe Native on September 13, 2012, 07:57:24 AM
The Egyptian president has condemned the attacks.

Good for him.  I even hear the forces are out trying to protect the embassy.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on September 13, 2012, 08:15:13 AM
Yup there are forces in Yemen attempting to help out the US Embassay.

Quote
Yemeni security forces who rushed to the scene fired in the air and used tear gas to disperse the demonstrators and were eventually able to drive them out of the compound. It was not immediately clear whether anyone was inside the embassy at the time of the attack.

The Yemeni Embassy in Washington condemned the attack and vowed to ensure the safety of foreign diplomats and to step up security measures around their missions in the country.


http://www.npr.org/2012/09/13/161048997/protesters-storm-u-s-embassy-in-yemen (http://www.npr.org/2012/09/13/161048997/protesters-storm-u-s-embassy-in-yemen)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Pax on September 13, 2012, 08:26:28 AM
     The US! overthrew yet another sovereign government half-way around the world, executed its leader and is now crying foul that some of their petty stooges there are being expedited to the afterlife?  Sheesh.  Who'd have thunk it?  Only a slavish devotee would or could "denounce" such nominal retribution for the evil visited on Libya by the banksters and their lapdogs in the US. 
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on September 13, 2012, 01:40:02 PM
Here's some of the pictures of the peaceful Libyan's

(https://i.chzbgr.com/completestore/12/9/12/VHE5acKUhUq9wrKP7zV10Q2.jpg)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: lilly on September 13, 2012, 03:14:36 PM
Embassies were so much safer under old Ronnie's watch.

April 18 1983 Beirut Islamic Jihad car bomb destroys Embassy 63 killed
December 12 1983 Kuwait City al-Dawa truck bomb outside embassy 6 killed.
September 20 1984 Beirut Hezbollah truck bomb outside embassy 24 killed
November 1984 Bogotá Car bomb outside Embassy planted by drug cartel 1 killed
February 1986 Lisbon Popular Forces of 25 April car bomb outside Embassy
May 14 1986 Jakarta Japanese Red Army mortar barrage none
June 9 1987 Rome Japanese Red Army mortar barrage
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monroe Native on September 13, 2012, 03:27:02 PM
Embassies were so much safer under old Ronnie's watch.

April 18 1983 Beirut Islamic Jihad car bomb destroys Embassy 63 killed
December 12 1983 Kuwait City al-Dawa truck bomb outside embassy 6 killed.
September 20 1984 Beirut Hezbollah truck bomb outside embassy 24 killed
November 1984 Bogotá Car bomb outside Embassy planted by drug cartel 1 killed
February 1986 Lisbon Popular Forces of 25 April car bomb outside Embassy
May 14 1986 Jakarta Japanese Red Army mortar barrage none
June 9 1987 Rome Japanese Red Army mortar barrage

Wow.

Radical Muslims have been around a long time.

Come to think of it wasn't that why the Crusades started in the 11-13th centuries? 

Too bad they didn't stick with it and finish the job then.

I do believe that history shows that Reagan took care of the Red Army issue.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on September 13, 2012, 03:29:07 PM
Actually the Crusades were started to convert people to Christianity.  A lot of my relatives, and probably some of yours as well, were killed.  Fortunately some of us were able to rediscover our roots and go back to a religion that shouldn't have been almost extinguished.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monroe Native on September 13, 2012, 03:41:10 PM
Actually the Crusades were started to convert people to Christianity.  A lot of my relatives, and probably some of yours as well, were killed.  Fortunately some of us were able to rediscover our roots and go back to a religion that shouldn't have been almost extinguished.

Yes.  The crusades were started by the pope to clear Jerusalem of the Muslims.  True enough.  Wasn't just there either, Spain, Turkey, Southern Europe.  Many areas have evidence of Mosques converted to Churches, and vice versus.

I am not sure if my ancestors got involved or not, but probably they did.  The Reformation hadn't liberated them from the lunacy of the pope yet.

I think the pope had studied the Koran - or had staff that did.  I am guessing that he took the Koran seriously - and what this false prophet could do to Christianity frightened him as much as it frightens me. 

The difference between then and now is political correctness hadn't been invented, and the Pope didn't have to pretend that Muslims were something that they are not - it is all outlined in the Koran, and he saw then the same things we are seeing now.

Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on September 13, 2012, 03:50:58 PM
So are you calling foe the extermination of a race of predominantly peaceful people?
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monroe Native on September 13, 2012, 03:57:48 PM
So are you calling foe the extermination of a race of predominantly peaceful people?

No way - I would never do that.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on September 13, 2012, 04:03:10 PM
Sorry I must have misinterpreted it when you said you wish the crusades finished the job.

To be honest during the Dark Ages Baghdad was the center of knowledge.  Without the Arab world our society would beat least 100 years behind technologically. 

A few extremeists are giving Islam a bad name.  That's what extremeists do though.  Do a little research and you will see Islam isn't as bad as it's made out to be.  And no I'm not Muslim...
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monroe Native on September 13, 2012, 04:22:39 PM
And no I'm not Muslim...


I was wondering from your previous post.  It was worded in such a way that it seemed like you had converted.

Now - I will say I have worries about the prospects of living in a Muslim Theocracy.  Being a devout Christian I never thought being a martyr for my religion would be a remote possibility.  Now I know that it could be a real possibility in many countries - and I don't think the US is exempt.  I think most Americans or Western Europeans would find that objectionable.  I will also say that I have attended classes that study Muslims (gotta take electives to get degrees....), and there seem to be definitive stages of conquest described in the Koran that are frightening - even more so because you can see it happening around the globe and right here in Dearborn.

While I don't have the material handy that I studied I found a website that had similar information on the stages - though I warn you I didn't take a ton of time to study how closely this site is to what I studied - just a very quick look.

I will admit that while I have had work friends that are Arab / Muslim and converted Muslims and they are very generous - very peaceful - I am not sure if that is the norm, or Iran is the norm. 

I am not sure if the regime in Iran and other Muslim dominated theocracies were eliminated, and the radical Mullah's that are out there were somehow taken out of the mix if the norm would be peaceable or not.  I say that because the Koran does go into how a Muslim believer should behave depending on whether they are in the minority, even, or majority, and it is easy to find places in the world at each stage that matches the instructions closely. 

Most people I know that fled Iran after the revolution were not Muslim - and they tell me they got out in fear of their lives - and they would not convert to Islam - and the alternative was death.  Missionaries have a very short life span in Iran if they openly try to spread Christianity.  These are facts - and seem to refute that it is a peaceable religion.

I don't want to close my eyes with political correctness only to find myself living under Sharia Law - and some localities in the US have already had demands to allow implementation of it....

Take a look and tell me why I should not be at least concerned.

http://civilusdefendus.wordpress.com/2010/01/10/4-stages-of-islamic-conquest/ (http://civilusdefendus.wordpress.com/2010/01/10/4-stages-of-islamic-conquest/)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on September 13, 2012, 05:04:38 PM
Well I'm a happy little Pagan living under Levitican law and that doesn't make me happy.

The website you referenced is pretty obvious in the fact it plays towards the fear of Muslim extremeists.  I could just as easily provide links to the atrocities of the Christian god and how most christians dont understand the new covenant your christ made with you.

The first Jihad is the Jihad within ones self.  It is to become more like Muhammad.  The Jihad of conversion to Islam is a lesser Jihad.  It's very similar to christianity and following the path of Jesus vs converting people to christianty.

I understand that people always believe that their god is the only one, but we are more of a secular nation and I prefer it that way.  Maybe one day the rest of the world will follow.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Baggins on September 13, 2012, 05:15:36 PM
I would say it's when the Muslim community DOES something against these attacks, that's a message that would matter.  Talk is cheap.

It still has to start somewhere...I would call speaking out against these acts as DOING something!


Quote
Wouldn't a better thread title be Isn't It Time for the US to Start Minding It's Own Friggin' Business?

I absolutely agree with that, we should mind our own business...BUT, you totally lost me with this tripe...

     The US! overthrew yet another sovereign government half-way around the world, executed its leader and is now crying foul that some of their petty stooges there are being expedited to the afterlife?  Sheesh.  Who'd have thunk it?  Only a slavish devotee would or could "denounce" such nominal retribution for the evil visited on Libya by the banksters and their lapdogs in the US. 

Rubbish, pure garbage speak...


Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monroe Native on September 14, 2012, 07:25:07 AM
Well I'm a happy little Pagan living under Levitican law and that doesn't make me happy.

The website you referenced is pretty obvious in the fact it plays towards the fear of Muslim extremeists.  I could just as easily provide links to the atrocities of the Christian god and how most christians dont understand the new covenant your christ made with you.

The first Jihad is the Jihad within ones self.  It is to become more like Muhammad.  The Jihad of conversion to Islam is a lesser Jihad.  It's very similar to christianity and following the path of Jesus vs converting people to christianty.

I understand that people always believe that their god is the only one, but we are more of a secular nation and I prefer it that way.  Maybe one day the rest of the world will follow.

Name me ONE totalitarian Christian State.

Name me ONE.

Not in the past either - not resorting to history - name me ONE country that will put you to death TODAY if you don't accept Christianity as your religion.

I am not going to pretend that website plays to the fears - I think it is in fact pretty accurate as to how the Muslim religion spreads - and how it turns from being peaceful and tolerant to being totalitarian.

Let me ask you - as a I watch the Democratic Party attempt to portray Republicans as trying to take away control of YOUR body from you - How are women treated in the Muslim religion and in Muslim dominated countries?  Further - How are GAY males treated in IRAN?

I find it IRONIC that you are against the EVIL REPUBLICANS, but you are FOR the wonderful peaceful Muslims DESPITE overwhelming evidence that they are anything BUT.  I think as a Female Lesbian you would find life under that religion somewhat unpleasant, but then Muslims are not YOUR enemy - that would be the Christians, wouldn't it?

Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on September 14, 2012, 07:59:17 AM
Name me ONE totalitarian Christian State.

Name me ONE.

Not in the past either - not resorting to history - name me ONE country that will put you to death TODAY if you don't accept Christianity as your religion.


There is not one.  Not today, but we are still living under Judeo/Christian laws which discriminate against people and that is wrong regardless.  We need to lead by example.  We see the world changing because of it.

Quote
I am not going to pretend that website plays to the fears - I think it is in fact pretty accurate as to how the Muslim religion spreads - and how it turns from being peaceful and tolerant to being totalitarian.

Let me ask you - as a I watch the Democratic Party attempt to portray Republicans as trying to take away control of YOUR body from you - How are women treated in the Muslim religion and in Muslim dominated countries?  Further - How are GAY males treated in IRAN?


Have you done any research of Iran?  There are protests going on there constantly.  Their country is actually a pretty secular nation, but because they are controlled by their Shah they have no voice.  Not to mention the media is highly sensored by their own government.  I actually follow the social events that are going on in Iran because one of my favorite bands is Iranian.  Do yourself a favor and watch a little film called No One Knows About Persian Cats http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1426378/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1426378/).  It's a wonderful look into Middle Eastern youth and their quest for freedom.

Quote
I find it IRONIC that you are against the EVIL REPUBLICANS, but you are FOR the wonderful peaceful Muslims DESPITE overwhelming evidence that they are anything BUT.  I think as a Female Lesbian you would find life under that religion somewhat unpleasant, but then Muslims are not YOUR enemy - that would be the Christians, wouldn't it?


No, no one is my enemy.  I totally disagree with the practices of fundmentalists of ANY religion, including my own.  If you look at what's going on in the Persian Middle East the youth is SCREAMING for religous freedom and tolerance.  Unfortunately they are being suppressed, but they see hope in the western nations.  Now there will always be fundamentalists but if we can minimize them  we will be doing due dilligence for the future of our species.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Pax on September 14, 2012, 08:02:59 AM
Rubbish, pure garbage speak...


Clarify, please!  Are you implying:
That the US! did NOT overthrow Gaddafi (sp?) and his regime in Libya?
That the US! did NOT supply materiel and expertise to the "insurrection" it fomented in Libya?
That Libya isn't far distant from the US! ?
That the US! is NOT crying foul because a stooge/employee of theirs was killed there?
That the US! has no reasonable expectation of retaliation for interfering in Libyan internal affairs?
That the US! is NOT subordinate to international banksters' demands and wishes, hence lapdogs of same?

    For those Muslims Are the Bad Guys!! Pavlovian-dog posters on this thread perhaps a little time-out would do you some good: like turning off your propaganda boxes to give your over-worked right-frontal-lobe synapses a bit of a rest.  Whether the act of offing one of your (beloved?) ambassadors was criminal or not is still moot: Murder 1 is criminal, executing a criminal is not.  If Murder 1 is your pretrial, prejudicial decision you must also take into consideration any/all Mitigating Factors including "Incitement," and this particular event was most definitely incited:

Filmmaker Sam Bacile Incites Anti-American Hatred In Muslim World (http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2012/09/jewish-filmmaker-sam-bacile-incites-anti-american-hatred-in-muslim-world-2465884.html) <- link

Quote
“Other American news agencies, however, are coming right out and saying who’s behind all the trouble:
 
Bacile, a California real estate developer who identifies himself as an Israeli Jew, said he believes the movie will help his native land by exposing Islam’s flaws to the world.
 
“Islam is a cancer, period,” he said repeatedly, his solemn voice thickly accented.
 
The two-hour movie, “Innocence of Muslims,” cost $5 million to make and was financed with the help of more than 100 Jewish donors, said Bacile, who wrote and directed it.  – Yahoo News
 
For once, a major American news agency is finally coming right out and saying who’s really behind the war on Islam launched by the 9/11 false-flag op.
 
It’s the Zionists, stupid.” – Kevin Barrett, “Who really killed Ambassador Stevens? It’s the Zionists, stupid!” September 12, 2012.


Of course the story is still in the raw, emotional stages of investigation but before anyone jumps to conclusions based on the Ministry of Propaganda-approved "news stories" (sic) one should exercise more-than-a-little caution as well: especially when your government/POTUS is anxiously fomenting two additional "wars" against Islamic countries half-way around the world that can't possibly harm you personally: Iran and Syria.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on September 14, 2012, 08:20:01 AM
One other thing I noticed Native...You are getting pretty upset when someone quetions your religion, but you expect someone, who's religion was directly insulted, to just take it on the chin and walk away.  These people have the right to protest against the film that upset them, but they should do so peacfully.  Most Libyans, and Muslims, agree with my previous sentence.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: livewire on September 14, 2012, 08:41:00 AM
One other thing I noticed Native...You are getting pretty upset when someone quetions your religion, but you expect someone, who's religion was directly insulted, to just take it on the chin and walk away.  These people have the right to protest against the film that upset them, but they should do so peacfully.  Most Libyans, and Muslims, agree with my previous sentence.

Why is it when some unknown individual mocks Islam, people die?

But COUNTLESS people mock Christianity, both here in the States, and everywhere else in the world, yet Christians don't go out and start murdering people, in the name of these actions.

See a difference, there?  If you don't see it, you are blind.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monique on September 14, 2012, 08:55:31 AM
Didn't a Christian just go in and shoot up a bunch of Sikhs in Wisconsin just last month? A white supremacist, I believe, and he killed 6 innocent people in their place of worship. They were not white and they were not Christian, so he killed them. According to Wikipedia, he'd been talking about an "impending holy war."

So, see? We certainly do have our own violent extremists that shame our society, just as the Muslims have theirs.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monroe Native on September 14, 2012, 08:58:09 AM
One other thing I noticed Native...You are getting pretty upset when someone questions your religion, but you expect someone, who's religion was directly insulted, to just take it on the chin and walk away.  These people have the right to protest against the film that upset them, but they should do so peacefully.  Most Libyans, and Muslims, agree with my previous sentence.

Upset?  Who is upset?

I am just pointing out the craziness of the arguments.

Evil Republican = Suppress Women, take away their rights
Muslim = Peaceful Wonderful

I am just saying LOOK at the data.

How can you make both arguments?  Seriously?

I am just looking for some consistency here.

You stated you had an issue with Christians judging your sexual orientation, and yes I am paraphrasing, but you think how Muslims treat people is okay?  Would you want to be a female in a country where Islam is practiced to its fullest extent?  Would you want to be GAY in a country where Islam is practiced to its fullest extent?  You think Muslims are open to you questioning their religion the way that Christians are?  Do you think you would be able to openly question their beliefs on a chat board in the countries that are totalitarian - and YES - that IS the end game in the Muslim conquest of overwhelming other cultures.

How can the same person argue that Republicans are evil - yet Muslims are wonderful and cool.

As far as attacking my religion go ahead.  Tell you what - lets have a Bible burning down in Loranger Square.  They will print more - I'm not worried about it.  Tell me I am a right wing conservative religious zealot that wants to dictate what you can do with your body - I really don't care.  Make a movie mocking Jesus - and there have been SEVERAL over the years - whatever, you have to answer for it, not me. 

All I was doing is pointing out the inconsistencies in your positions.  You seem like a reasonably intelligent person, but on a few issues you do seem either naive or you are ignoring the overwhelming evidence to the contrary when you make your conclusions.

If you want to be a secularist then you had BETTER wake up and realize that Christians are not your enemy - but your local, friendly, peaceful Muslim IS.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monroe Native on September 14, 2012, 09:07:39 AM
Didn't a Christian just go in and shoot up a bunch of Sikhs in Wisconsin just last month? A white supremacist, I believe, and he killed 6 innocent people in their place of worship. They were not white and they were not Christian, so he killed them. According to Wikipedia, he'd been talking about an "impending holy war."

So, see? We certainly do have our own violent extremists that shame our society, just as the Muslims have theirs.

Wow.

You picked some idiot who doesn't know that a Sikh isn't the same as a Muslim - and then declare that his motives had something to do with Christians.

I will say in any large group of people clustered together under some demographic there are going to be idiots.  There are going to be people who take things to extreme, and do things that are evil.  I agree with that.  There are going to be people who use religion, race, economics, or a stupid Bat Man movie to justify their actions.

To say what Muslims are doing in the Middle East right now, what happened at Fort Hood, what happened on 9/11 is the same is ludicrous idiot stuff going on in individual incidents is not logical. 

How do you explain the Jihad - and that is their name, not mine?  Do you deny that the Koran teaches about Jihad?  Do you deny that some mullahs recruit and train Muslims to participate in the Jihad?

I wish the world was not like this - but I can't pretend that what is going on is just a few radicals.  The overwhelming evidence is to the contrary.


Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on September 14, 2012, 09:12:50 AM
Why is it when some unknown individual mocks Islam, people die?

But COUNTLESS people mock Christianity, both here in the States, and everywhere else in the world, yet Christians don't go out and start murdering people, in the name of these actions.

See a difference, there?  If you don't see it, you are blind.

Again, extremeists.  I'm not saying that all Muslims are good.  I'm saying that a small minority of Extremeists are giving the good ones a bad name.

Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monique on September 14, 2012, 09:15:44 AM
Wow, you mean I picked something inconveniently appropriate? White supremacists are the same as the jihadist radicals. They're all crazy, and they do not represent the majority of either culture.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on September 14, 2012, 09:27:17 AM
Upset?  Who is upset?

I am just pointing out the craziness of the arguments.

By the tone of your posts it seems like you are extremely upset.


Quote
Evil Republican = Suppress Women, take away their rights
Muslim = Peaceful Wonderful

I never made that correlation.  I was just saying that MOST Muslims are peaceful people.  Most Republicans don't want to take away women's rights. 

Quote
I am just saying LOOK at the data.

How can you make both arguments?  Seriously?

I am just looking for some consistency here.

I have shown nothing but consistency.  I have pointed out that these acts are done by extremests.  The republicans believe that they should dicate what a woman should do with their body.

[qutoe]You stated you had an issue with Christians judging your sexual orientation, and yes I am paraphrasing, but you think how Muslims treat people is okay?  Would you want to be a female in a country where Islam is practiced to its fullest extent?  Would you want to be GAY in a country where Islam is practiced to its fullest extent?  You think Muslims are open to you questioning their religion the way that Christians are?  Do you think you would be able to openly question their beliefs on a chat board in the countries that are totalitarian - and YES - that IS the end game in the Muslim conquest of overwhelming other cultures.[/quote]

No, I would not want to live in an Islamic Extremist country, and you are wrong about the "Muslim conquest of other cultures".  Moderate Muslims Do not feel that way.  Have you actually sat down and spoken with a Muslim in America?  Maybe you should and your fears will be quelled.

That being said, more and more Muslims are becoming secular.  Watch that movie and you will see how Muslim youth are actually coming out of the closet and love the freedom that America gives them.  They're standing up for womens rights.  They're standing up for gay rights.  They're fighting the intolerance that happens in their countries.

Quote
How can the same person argue that Republicans are evil - yet Muslims are wonderful and cool.

Never said republicans are evil.  I just feel that I should decide what I do with my body and who I mary.

Quote
As far as attacking my religion go ahead.  Tell you what - lets have a Bible burning down in Loranger Square.  They will print more - I'm not worried about it.  Tell me I am a right wing conservative religious zealot that wants to dictate what you can do with your body - I really don't care.  Make a movie mocking Jesus - and there have been SEVERAL over the years - whatever, you have to answer for it, not me.

I don't want to burn your bible. It's a great book and I have read it.  I do have issues with certain parts of it, but the story of Jesus is a good one. 

Quote
All I was doing is pointing out the inconsistencies in your positions.  You seem like a reasonably intelligent person, but on a few issues you do seem either naive or you are ignoring the overwhelming evidence to the contrary when you make your conclusions.

There are no inconsistencies in my positions.  You are citing Muslim extremeists and I've done research to show that the majority of Muslims aren't extremeists.

Quote
If you want to be a secularist then you had BETTER wake up and realize that Christians are not your enemy - but your local, friendly, peaceful Muslim IS.


LOL yeah those people in dearborn really are bad people.  Like I said, I have never said Christians are my enemy.  I just disagree with them. I disagree with ANY extremeists, EVEN THOSE IN MY OWN RELIGION.  Apparently you didn't fully read my posts.


Wow, you mean I picked something inconveniently appropriate? White supremacists are the same as the jihadist radicals. They're all crazy, and they do not represent the majority of either culture.

Bingo!
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monroe Native on September 14, 2012, 09:32:54 AM
Wow, you mean I picked something inconveniently appropriate? White supremacists are the same as the jihadist radicals. They're all crazy, and they do not represent the majority of either culture.

Okay.

What do we consider an entire culture.

How about Iran?  Is Iran not a Nation State?  They have vowed to attack and eliminate a neighboring country.
How about Egypt?  Is Egypt not a Nation State?  The first act of the new parliament was to threaten a neighboring country.

These are just two countries.  There are many more.

Am I to consider 2 nation states as a few radicals?  No different then a single white supremacist in Wisconsin?

Are you seriously contending that I should ignore all of the totalitarian Muslim regimes in the middle east?  To do so is to IGNORE the vast body of evidence.

Why don't we just go back to the debate that Republicans hate women.  I am tired of talking to you about how peaceful Muslims are.  Facts have no basis for you in this discussion.

Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on September 14, 2012, 09:37:07 AM
And the times are a changing for Muslim countries.  The old guard is dying off and the youth is standing up or fleeing for more tolerant countries.  The old thinking of the Muslim countries will be their downfall.  That's evident in all the social unrest that occurs in Iran and other countries like that.

Have you actually looked at the civil unrest that's happening in Iran?  Do you have any idea the potential for a secular Iran after the Shah dies?  Iran is RIPE with revolution, and the majority of people LOVE America.

Do some research instead of looking at websites that fear monger.  Fear rots your brain.  Understanding heals it.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monique on September 14, 2012, 09:55:04 AM
Okay.

What do we consider an entire culture.

How about Iran?  Is Iran not a Nation State?  They have vowed to attack and eliminate a neighboring country.
How about Egypt?  Is Egypt not a Nation State?  The first act of the new parliament was to threaten a neighboring country.

These are just two countries.  There are many more.

Am I to consider 2 nation states as a few radicals?  No different then a single white supremacist in Wisconsin?

Are you seriously contending that I should ignore all of the totalitarian Muslim regimes in the middle east?  To do so is to IGNORE the vast body of evidence.

Why don't we just go back to the debate that Republicans hate women.  I am tired of talking to you about how peaceful Muslims are.  Facts have no basis for you in this discussion.
You keep vacillating between talking about Muslims in general, which would include those nations, and the nations themselves. In any case, radicals do not represent the majority.

There has been war and unrest in the middle east since time immemorial, I don't see it changing anytime soon. A big contributing factor to that unrest is that religion is not separate from their government, and all the different denominations think their belief is superior and they are intolerant to anyone who believes differently.

That is very similar to what was going on with Christians and Catholics just a few centuries ago, and Christians and Jews just in the last century. Since that time, our culture has opened up and evolved to a point where we no longer kill each other in the name of religion (usually), and people feel free and safe (usually) believing what they want here in the US. Until the Muslim culture reaches that internal stasis, they will continue to have perpetual conflict.

And gimme a break that there's only one white supremacist loser who has caused violence in the US. Definitely NOT an isolated incident. Aryan Nation and KKK, anyone?
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monroe Native on September 14, 2012, 09:55:52 AM
And the times are a changing for Muslim countries.  The old guard is dying off and the youth is standing up or fleeing for more tolerant countries.  The old thinking of the Muslim countries will be their downfall.  That's evident in all the social unrest that occurs in Iran and other countries like that.

Have you actually looked at the civil unrest that's happening in Iran?  Do you have any idea the potential for a secular Iran after the Shah dies?  Iran is RIPE with revolution, and the majority of people LOVE America.

Do some research instead of looking at websites that fear monger.  Fear rots your brain.  Understanding heals it.

I hope you are right - I really do.  However - the evidence of what seems to be going on in the Middle East would indicate it is going in the other direction.

Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on September 14, 2012, 10:03:52 AM
You keep vacillating between talking about Muslims in general, which would include those nations, and the nations themselves. In any case, radicals do not represent the majority.

There has been war and unrest in the middle east since time immemorial, I don't see it changing anytime soon. A big contributing factor to that unrest is that religion is not separate from their government, and all the different denominations think their belief is superior and they are intolerant to anyone who believes differently.

That is very similar to what was going on with Christians and Catholics just a few centuries ago, and Christians and Jews just in the last century. Since that time, our culture has opened up and evolved to a point where we no longer kill each other in the name of religion (usually), and people feel free and safe (usually) believing what they want here in the US. Until the Muslim culture reaches that internal stasis, they will continue to have perpetual conflict.

And gimme a break that there's only one white supremacist loser who has caused violence in the US. Definitely NOT an isolated incident. Aryan Nation and KKK, anyone?

You forgot to mention the people who run white supremicist websites (no I'm not naming any).  They have fourms dedicated to hate and people to incite misguided youth into performing actions of hate.  The actual leaders of the white supremicist movement won't actually do anything but speak the hate rhetoric and attempt to get others to do the dirty work.  It's actually quite appalling but similar to the way Muslim extremeists do it.


I hope you are right - I really do.  However - the evidence of what seems to be going on in the Middle East would indicate it is going in the other direction.



So do I.  Watch that movie.  You may not like the music in it, but the point behind it is good.  Unfortunately the media is suppressed in countries like that.  The one country I'm actually afraid of is Saudi Arabia.  They have more humanitarian violations than can be counted yet because they're an ally of the US we do nothing about it.  If you actually look into what that country is doing to people, not only of different faiths, but of different factions of Islam, it's disgusting.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monroe Native on September 14, 2012, 10:28:47 AM
You forgot to mention the people who run white supremicist websites (no I'm not naming any).  They have fourms dedicated to hate and people to incite misguided youth into performing actions of hate.  The actual leaders of the white supremicist movement won't actually do anything but speak the hate rhetoric and attempt to get others to do the dirty work.  It's actually quite appalling but similar to the way Muslim extremeists do it.

Don't forget the New Black Panthers either.  Don't just pick on Whitey.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monique on September 14, 2012, 10:37:17 AM
Don't forget the New Black Panthers either.  Don't just pick on Whitey.
They represent our culture even less than the KKK. They are a minority of a minority!
Title: "It's Not Part of Our Faith" Local Muslims React to Violence in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on September 14, 2012, 10:56:06 AM
http://thenewsherald.com/articles/2012/09/14/news/doc50532c4a1b787129290955.txt?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter (http://thenewsherald.com/articles/2012/09/14/news/doc50532c4a1b787129290955.txt?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)

Quote
Local Muslims have spoken out against the violent protests spreading across the Middle East and North America which left U.S. Ambassador Chris Stevens and three of his American staff dead earlier this week.

At least one arrest was made Thursday morning for suspected involvement in the Libyan attack, and at least three others were being pursued by Libyan authorities in the afternoon.


Quote
Dawud Walid, executive director of the Council on American Islamic Relations in Michigan, said, “There is no justification for such wanton violence that led to the deaths of innocent Americans in Libya. Defending the honor of Prophet Muhammad is to return insults with righteousness, not with criminality.”

Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monroe Native on September 14, 2012, 11:03:49 AM
It would appear the violence is spreading to more and more countries.

The "radicals" are sure making more noise then the peaceful.

This still seems like Iran 1979 on steroids to me, but I hope I am wrong.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: livewire on September 14, 2012, 11:34:20 AM
It would appear the violence is spreading to more and more countries.

The "radicals" are sure making more noise then the peaceful.

This still seems like Iran 1979 on steroids to me, but I hope I am wrong.

Yeah, those radical Christians are scaring the crap out of me.    ;)


Oh, that's RIGHT!!!  Christians don't go shouting in the streets, calling for a holy war against anyone that opposes them!  Our Bible doesn't say we should kill anyone that doesn't agree with us!

What was I thinking.   8*
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on September 14, 2012, 11:47:06 AM
So no one died from abortion clinic bombings?  No Doctors were killed by fundamentalist christians?  No Christian preachers have called out for the heads of non believers?

All you two are doing is ignorant fear mongering. Read the Koran.  Speak to an Imam.  Take a religon course at the community college.  Don't believe everything you hear off of Fox news or Drudge.  Most Muslim people are very good people.  Again it's the few bad ones giving good ones, like these people, a bad name.

(http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/michigan/files/styles/card_wide/public/royaloak_vigil10.JPG)

http://michiganradio.org/post/photos-muslims-metro-detroit-hold-vigil-response-attacks-libya (http://michiganradio.org/post/photos-muslims-metro-detroit-hold-vigil-response-attacks-libya)

Quote
"The Muslim community absolutely does not support anything that occurred in Libya. Violence is against our religion. Our religion is all about peace," said Ghalawanji.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: lilly on September 14, 2012, 11:51:06 AM
Our Bible doesn't say we should kill anyone that doesn't agree with us!

What was I thinking.   8*
http://bible.cc/exodus/35-2.htm (http://bible.cc/exodus/35-2.htm)
Quote
Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.


And if I don't agree with that?
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monroe Native on September 14, 2012, 11:53:58 AM
[url]http://bible.cc/exodus/35-2.htm[/url] ([url]http://bible.cc/exodus/35-2.htm[/url])
And if I don't agree with that?


I don't ever remember reading about a massacre that happened when someone worked on the Sabbath. 

If that was the case I wouldn't go pick up the pizza - it would be too dangerous.

Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on September 14, 2012, 11:54:21 AM
[url]http://bible.cc/exodus/35-2.htm[/url] ([url]http://bible.cc/exodus/35-2.htm[/url])
And if I don't agree with that?


What about Leviticus?  That one is rife with death.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Baggins on September 14, 2012, 01:14:09 PM
Name me ONE totalitarian Christian State.



The Holy Roman Empire...
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Baggins on September 14, 2012, 02:04:43 PM
Clarify, please!  Are you implying:
That the US! did NOT overthrow Gaddafi (sp?) and his regime in Libya? (those were his own countrymen!)
That the US! did NOT supply materiel and expertise to the "insurrection" it fomented in Libya? (along with several other nations in Europe, France being the main participant!  supplying rebels who fight for the betterment of their own county to throw off the shackles of a mad tyrant is a bad thing in your mind I suppose?!)
That Libya isn't far distant from the US! ? (say what...?  how does that pertain in a fight for civil freedoms...?)
That the US! is NOT crying foul because a stooge/employee of theirs was killed there? (a diplomatic envoy is NOT a STOOGE as you so lovingly put it and NO I do not believe it's crying foul to speak out against it!  I guess human life means nothing to you as well?!)
That the US! has no reasonable expectation of retaliation for interfering in Libyan internal affairs? (saving the lives of innocent civilians isn't good enough for you?!  We really didn't do much in this matter if you take a good look at the records!  we helped trounced their air power and enforced a no fly zone)
That the US! is NOT subordinate to international banksters' demands and wishes, hence lapdogs of same? (this part takes it too far and isn't reality!  If anything it would be the opposite of what you speak of, but just as wrong in the practice...)

    For those Muslims Are the Bad Guys!! Pavlovian-dog posters on this thread perhaps a little time-out would do you some good: like turning off your propaganda boxes to give your over-worked right-frontal-lobe synapses a bit of a rest.  Whether the act of offing one of your (beloved?) ambassadors was criminal or not is still moot: Murder 1 is criminal, executing a criminal is not.  If Murder 1 is your pretrial, prejudicial decision you must also take into consideration any/all Mitigating Factors including "Incitement," and this particular event was most definitely incited:

Filmmaker Sam Bacile Incites Anti-American Hatred In Muslim World ([url]http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2012/09/jewish-filmmaker-sam-bacile-incites-anti-american-hatred-in-muslim-world-2465884.html[/url]) <- link

Of course the story is still in the raw, emotional stages of investigation but before anyone jumps to conclusions based on the Ministry of Propaganda-approved "news stories" (sic) one should exercise more-than-a-little caution as well: especially when your government/POTUS is anxiously fomenting two additional "wars" against Islamic countries half-way around the world that can't possibly harm you personally: Iran and Syria. (I think you're dead wrong on this account, no one wants another war in the middle east, other than perhaps the Pentagon!)



I'm not implying anything, you on the other hand are, without positive facts, based on your own political opinion and belief...
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Baggins on September 14, 2012, 02:21:08 PM
Pax, I'm sick of you claiming that the United States is the BAD guy in all of this international BS when we have been repeatedly put into situations that demand action to be taken on our part(though I'm sure in your mind it's all false flag operations participated from within)...If you hate this country so much, go live in Canada or better yet Mexico! 
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monroe Native on September 14, 2012, 02:56:21 PM

The Holy Roman Empire...

Name ONE Christian Totalitarian State in the 20th or 21st centeruries
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Baggins on September 14, 2012, 03:07:46 PM
Name ONE Christian Totalitarian State in the 20th or 21st centeruries

There isn't one to my knowledge...Not in the current age.   England would be the latest, but that's still before the 20th century...
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: lilly on September 14, 2012, 03:19:57 PM
Name ONE Christian Totalitarian State in the 20th or 21st centeruries
The Vatican.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican)

the central governing body of the Catholic Church and sovereign entity recognized by international law
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monroe Native on September 14, 2012, 03:20:47 PM
The Vatican.

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican[/url] ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican[/url])

the central governing body of the Catholic Church and sovereign entity recognized by international law


Sure it is.  Not sure if they qualify as a Nation State.

You can't name one.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Baggins on September 14, 2012, 03:28:57 PM
The Vatican.

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican[/url] ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican[/url])

the central governing body of the Catholic Church and sovereign entity recognized by international law



I'm not quite sure if that fits with what he's asking though...Still, the Vatican doesn't execute people for being non-christian either...
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monroe Native on September 14, 2012, 04:06:23 PM

I'm not quite sure if that fits with what he's asking though...Still, the Vatican doesn't execute people for being non-christian either...

I will feed your argument.

The Vatican was the impotence for the Crusades, and they certainly did put many people to death over their History.

Not sure they do it now.

I guess my whole point is to believe that Radical Muslims and Radical Totalitarian States exist and they are a present a problem to free Western Societies is not a stretch.

You can say there is radicals in other elements on the planet, and you are correct, but as an issue to Western Culture Radical Islam would appear to me as the primary threat, with the possible exception of our own stupidity in trying to provide entitlements to citizens that governments simply can't afford.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: MM1 on September 14, 2012, 05:04:54 PM

The Vatican was the impetus for the Crusades, and they certainly did put many people to death over their History.



Is that what you meant to say?
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Pax on September 14, 2012, 08:11:12 PM
     Well MY GOODNESS some people are easily distracted: a thread about the offing of a US! ambassador and his CIA buddies goes off into Never Never Land of Catholicism, Women's Rights! (sic), the Black Panthers, White Supremacists, ad nauseum.  Yeah, you know who you are.  Stay on topic or start a new one, idiots...

   Baggins, there are riper targets than myself for you inanities, please pick on one of them for once.  Try something new! Something exciting!

    The fact is, plain and simple, sheeple: your "government," with the approval of whoever your POTUS may be at any particular time, has been fomenting upheavel, the overthrow of foreign governments, the usurpation of foreign sovereignty and is guilty of untold numbers of summary executions the world over.  All done in YOUR NAME.  If you're good with that, and can sleep well at night, good for you.  For everyone else, however, your "government" has made you and I and everyone around you a hated enemy of most of the world.  If that makes you uneasy don't for a minute blame the poor schmucks who have been so incited to hate you, hate those who caused the hatred: your government.  All roads lead back to the CIA/FBI/US "government" whatever the horrific action might be anywhere in the world when it comes to the not-so-US-friendly party(ies) there.  If they're your servants, slap the hell out of them: if they're your masters beg them to stop making you look so damn bad the world over.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: lilly on September 14, 2012, 08:18:27 PM
Sure it is.  Not sure if they qualify as a Nation State.

You can't name one.
I did.

http://geography.about.com/library/faq/blqzsmallestcountry.htm (http://geography.about.com/library/faq/blqzsmallestcountry.htm)

The Vatican City, the headquarters of the Roman Catholic Church, is the world's smallest country.

It is also the ONLY country recognized by the entire UN.

Perhaps you should change your criteria again.

Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Pax on September 14, 2012, 08:41:12 PM
Oy vey!  My goodness, some people just can NOT STAY ON TOPIC, can they?  Blather about this or that itty-bitty nation-state anywhere in the world has absolutely NOTHING to do with the damage done to the American nation or American people's reputations.  The US! has done most of that all by itself whilst the sheeple wave their flags and sing Kumbayas and wonder wtf is wrong with the rest of the world.  Sheesh.  Get a'hold of your stupid selves...  The US! has been fomenting evil the world over while you've got your eye balls glued to American Idol and whatever other drivel is on your boob-tubes and you're wondering why you're not so popular with Muslims, "extremists" and "insurgents" all over the planet. 
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monroe Native on September 14, 2012, 09:20:31 PM

Is that what you meant to say?

Yes.  Spell check...  must spell better or watch closer!
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Frenchfry on September 14, 2012, 11:05:47 PM
I will feed your argument.

The Vatican was the impotence for the Crusades, and they certainly did put many people to death over their History.

Not sure they do it now.

I guess my whole point is to believe that Radical Muslims and Radical Totalitarian States exist and they are a present a problem to free Western Societies is not a stretch.

You can say there is radicals in other elements on the planet, and you are correct, but as an issue to Western Culture Radical Islam would appear to me as the primary threat, with the possible exception of our own stupidity in trying to provide entitlements to citizens that governments simply can't afford.
Yes.  Spell check...  must spell better or watch closer!
Spell check wouldn't have helped. Just like your other recent error in the other topic...prophet/profit.
A better education or higher IQ perhaps...but not spell check.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Frenchfry on September 14, 2012, 11:41:26 PM
'Innocence of Muslims' film spurs outrage across Arab World
Protests have occurred in Libya, Lebanon, Egypt and across the Arab World, and demonstrators are largely blaming an American-made film that they say ridiculed the Islam religion. The film 'Innocence of Muslims'has been blamed for protests in several countries that have caused immeasurable damage and even death. Reema Abu Hamdieh, RT Arabic correspondence, explains why the movie has made such a mark overseas and has caused rampant anti-American sentiments to spread violently.

'Innocence of Muslims' film spurs outrage across Arab World (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVcPskB0T3g&feature=plcp#)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Frenchfry on September 14, 2012, 11:42:50 PM
What Does Not Equal The USA
"If you're angry at Bush I get it because we elected him in a democracy, kind of, but listen he was President twice, and so if President Bush attacks Iraq and you say he equals the USA I think that's a fair point. Now look he doesn't because at this point 70% of Americans don't like Bush but none the less you could say Bush equals USA. You could say President Obama elected in your democracy he does drone strikes, we don't like the drone strikes, but Obama equals America. You can say that I get it. But here's what you can't say..."

What Does Not Equal The USA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0v-CYKFry8&feature=plcp#ws)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Frenchfry on September 14, 2012, 11:44:15 PM
Military "Expert" Calls For War In Libya on Fox News
Watch Fox News Conservative "Military Expert" Lt. Col. Ralph Peters call for war in Libya in retribution for protesters attacking our embassy. Cenk Uygur breaks down just how clownish this "expert" and his comments are.

Military "Expert" Calls For War In Libya on Fox News (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SVbxFQ7mNc&feature=plcp#ws)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Frenchfry on September 14, 2012, 11:50:52 PM
Foreign policy tone deafness becomes liability for Romney
Rachel Maddow shows how Mitt Romney's insensitivity to diplomatic and geopolitical circumstances and propensity for intemperate statements, demonstrated most recently in his inappropriately political response to Tuesday's attacks on U.S. missions in Egypt and Libya, have turned even members of his own party against him.

Rachel Maddow - Foreign policy tone deafness becomes liability for Romney (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WcKDFV2ALc&feature=plcp#ws)

The Last Word - Who's advising Romney on foreign policy? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdC3Ts7XIyM&feature=plcp#ws)

Mitt Romney's Libya mistake
President Obama responds to Mitt Romney's Libya comments which incited a Republican backlash. MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell discusses Romney's reaction and Rush Limbaugh's praise with MSNBC's John Heilemann and Joy Reid and The Atlantic's Steve Clemons.
The Last Word - Mitt Romney's Libya mistake (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jg_G3WPcQM&feature=plcp#ws)

Mr. Romney, you owe diplomats who risk their lives an apology
Martin Bashir lashes into Mitt Romney's twin campaign themes -- misrepresentation and refusal to apologize -- and challenges Romney to apologize for using the American embassy tragedy to score cheap political points against President Obama.
Martin Bashir - Mr. Romney, you owe diplomats who risk their lives an apology (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xpw6-W-MfmM&feature=plcp#ws)

Romney lets conservative media do damage control for him
MSNBC political analysts Michael Eric Dyson and Karen Finney debate whether Mitt Romney can right the ship after his embassy remarks -- or whether conservative media outlets will do his work for him -- and if Romney can continue his foreign policy attacks on President Obama, without giving any policy specifics of his own

Martin Bashir - Romney lets conservative media do damage control for him (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l10UKVsPMHw&feature=plcp#ws)


GOP defense of Romney embassy remarks equally insulting
Rep. Joe Crowley, D-New York, joins MSNBC's Martin Bashir to discuss why few Republicans are coming to Mitt Romney's defense -- and why one feels the need to use a rape analogy to do so.
Martin Bashir - GOP defense of Romney embassy remarks equally insulting (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZyFZIrmgJo&feature=plcp#ws)

Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Professor H on September 15, 2012, 02:42:14 AM
Wow - 9 video clips of propaganda...

That must have been for those of you who don't know what happened.

A few lectures likely and talking down to you telling you what to think about it...  8*

I see nothings changed since I have returned.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monroe Native on September 15, 2012, 11:58:41 AM
Spell check wouldn't have helped. Just like your other recent error in the other topic...prophet/profit.
A better education or higher IQ perhaps...but not spell check.

French Fry,

I would really like to tell you to do something with yourself, but I won't.

Anytime you want to compare education, income, standing in the community I am more then happy to go up against you.

I am not good at spelling.  I never have been.  You aren't good at thinking logically.  Have I EVER ridiculed you for that?

Frankly you aren't worth the effort to put down.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: livewire on September 16, 2012, 08:05:31 AM
French Fry,

Frankly you aren't worth the effort to put down.

This is true.  He's just too easy of a target.  It would be like picking on the weakest kid at the bus stop.

MN, it's better to just ignore his ridiculous attacks and flippant remarks.  Take the high road.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Frenchfry on September 16, 2012, 10:40:34 AM
French Fry,

I would really like to tell you to do something with yourself, but I won't.

Anytime you want to compare education, income, standing in the community I am more then happy to go up against you.

I am not good at spelling.  I never have been.  You aren't good at thinking logically.  Have I EVER ridiculed you for that?
Yes, just now for example. You've attacked me many times. That's seems to be your job. Go after the 'Fry and spread right-wing disinformation.

Frankly you aren't worth the effort to put down.
I'm far from perfect myself but the truth is...those words weren't misspelled.

They were misused.

That's something most righties have in common...and is often a telltale indicator of their political beliefs.
Commonly Misused Words and Phrases:
http://wsuonline.weber.edu/wrh/words.htm (http://wsuonline.weber.edu/wrh/words.htm)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: MM1 on September 16, 2012, 10:58:06 AM
MonroeNative, don't let him bait you.  That's the only thing he does well. 

He entertains himself with his own hot air and watching everyone react to his endless waste of energy.

I find it funny (very funny in fact) when he starts calling names, specifically Rightie.  It sounds so childish and uneducated and shows he's completely out of ideas.  But, that's all he's got so he keeps on calling names.   ;D ;D ;D

Now he knows you're listening to him, you're his "toy".  In fact, he thinks all of MT is his "toybox".

JMO of course.   

Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Frenchfry on September 16, 2012, 11:17:26 AM
MonroeNative, don't let him bait you.  That's the only thing he does well. 

He entertains himself with his own hot air and watching everyone react to his endless waste of energy.

I find it funny (very funny in fact) when he starts calling names, specifically Rightie.  It sounds so childish and uneducated and shows he's completely out of ideas.  But, that's all he's got so he keeps on calling names.   ;D ;D ;D

Now he knows you're listening to him, you're his "toy".  In fact, he thinks all of MT is his "toybox".

JMO of course.
It's all in context. I use the word "rightie" for descriptive purposes...not name-calling.
Meanwhile your use of "childish and uneducated" as well as "the only thing he does well", "completely out of ideas" and "He entertains himself with his own hot air and watching everyone react to his endless waste of energy" seems to be hypocritical and are clearly projecting your own subconscious denial of your own attributes.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: MM1 on September 16, 2012, 11:44:49 AM
(http://maddensresort.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/fishing.jpg)



Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Frenchfry on September 16, 2012, 11:50:37 AM
Free Speech or Hate: Explaining The Origins of The Anti-Islam Video

Free Speech or Hate: Explaining The Origins of The Anti-Islam Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWCxDD38O04&feature=plcp#ws)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Frenchfry on September 16, 2012, 11:52:07 AM
Who's Behind The "Innocence of Muslims" Film
"Steve Klein, the California ex-Marine identified as a consultant for the anti-Islam film that apparently triggered violent protests in northern Africa and the Middle East, is finally seeing the fruits of his labor."

Who's Behind The "Innocence of Muslims" Film (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1LU7t3mSHo&feature=plcp#ws)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Baggins on September 16, 2012, 12:11:47 PM
([url]http://maddensresort.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/fishing.jpg[/url])



I get it... ;D
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: The Fuzz on September 16, 2012, 03:12:30 PM
For the most part, well said!

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/human_nature/2012/09/mohammed_movie_embassy_attacks_don_t_let_internet_videos_drive_you_to_violence_.html (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/human_nature/2012/09/mohammed_movie_embassy_attacks_don_t_let_internet_videos_drive_you_to_violence_.html)



Dear Muslims, Christians, Hindus, and Jews,

You’re living in the age of the Internet. Your religion will be mocked, and the mockery will find its way to you. Get over it.

If you don’t, what’s happening this week will happen again and again. A couple of idiots with a video camera and an Internet connection will trigger riots across the globe. They’ll bait you into killing one another.
Advertisement

Stop it. Stop following their script.

Today, fury, violence, and bloodshed are consuming the Muslim world. Why? Because a bank fraud artist in California offered people $75 a day to come to his house and act out scenes that ostensibly had nothing to do with Islam. Then he replaced the audio, putting words in the actors’ mouths, and stitched together the scenes to make an absurdly bad movie ridiculing the Prophet Mohammed. He put out flyers to promote the movie. Nobody—literally nobody—came to watch it.

He posted a 14-minute video excerpt of the movie on YouTube, but hardly anyone noticed. Then, a week ago, an anti-Muslim activist in Virginia reposted the video with an Arabic translation and sent the link to activists and journalists in Egypt. An Egyptian TV show aired part of the video. An Egyptian politician denounced it. Clerics sounded the alarm. Through Facebook and Twitter, protesters were mobilized to descend on the U.S. embassy in Cairo. The uprising spread. The U.S. ambassador to Libya has been killed, and violence has engulfed other countries.

When the protests broke out, the guy who made the movie claimed to be an Israeli Jew funded by other Jews. That turned out be a lie. Now he says he’s a Coptic Christian, even though Coptic Christian leaders in Egypt and the United States despise the movie and want nothing to do with him. Another guy who helped make the movie claims to be a Buddhist. The movie was made in the United States, yet Sudanese mobs have attacked British and German embassies. Some Egyptians targeted the Dutch embassy, mistakenly thinking the Netherlands was behind the movie. Everyone’s looking for a group to blame and attack.

The men behind the movie said it would expose Islam as a violent religion. Now they’re pointing to the riots as proof. Muslims are “pre-programmed” to rage and kill, says the movie’s promoter. “Islam is a cancer,” says the director. According to the distributor, “The violence that it caused in Egypt is further evidence of how violent the religion and people are and it is evidence that everything in the film is factual.”

Congratulations, rioters. You followed the script perfectly. You did the propagandists’ work for them.

And the provocations won’t end here. Laws and censors won’t protect you from them.  Liberal democracies allow freedom of expression. Our leaders and people condemn garbage like this video, but we don’t censor it. Even if we did, the diffusion of media technology makes suppression impossible. The director of this movie was forbidden, under his bank-fraud probation rules, from using computers or the Internet without approval. That didn’t stop him. Nor did it stop the Arabic-language distributor from reposting the video and disseminating it abroad.

Online propaganda is speech. But it’s also part of the global rise of lethal empowerment. It’s easier than ever to kill people. In Muslim countries, mass murderers favor bombs. In the United States, they prefer guns. In Japan, they’ve tried sarin nerve gas. The Oklahoma City bomber used fertilizer. The Sept. 11 hijackers used box cutters and passenger planes. Then came the letters filled with anthrax.

Derision is that much harder to control. The spread of digital technology and Internet bandwidth makes it possible to reach every corner of the globe almost instantly with homemade video defaming any faith tradition. It can become an incendiary weapon. But it has a weakness: It depends on you. You’re the detonator. If you don’t cooperate, the bomb doesn’t explode.

This isn’t just a Muslim problem, though that’s been the pattern lately. On YouTube, you can find videos insulting every religion on the planet: Jews, Christians, Hindus, Catholics, Mormons, Buddhists, and more. Some clips are ironic. Others are simply disgusting. Many were posted to bait one group into fighting another. The baiters are indiscriminate. The promoter of the Mohammed movie founded a group that also protests at Mormon temples.

The hatred and bloodshed will go on until you stop taking the bait. Mockery of your prophet on a computer with an Internet address somewhere in the world can no longer be your master. Nor can the puppet clerics who tell you to respond with violence. Lay down your stones and your anger. Go home and pray. God is too great to be troubled by the insults of fools. Follow Him.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Professor H on September 16, 2012, 06:24:39 PM
It's not what MSNBC wants you to know - but it's probably closer to the truth right now...

(http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/holb_c10353620120914120100.jpg)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monroe Native on September 16, 2012, 06:43:09 PM
I think this article kind of mocks fun at Islam in a good way.

Don't look at the link if you are easily offended by things.  It is intentionally offensive to make a point.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/no-one-murdered-because-of-this-image,29553/ (http://www.theonion.com/articles/no-one-murdered-because-of-this-image,29553/)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monique on September 16, 2012, 07:17:35 PM
I think this article kind of mocks fun at Islam in a good way.

Don't look at the link if you are easily offended by things.  It is intentionally offensive to make a point.

[url]http://www.theonion.com/articles/no-one-murdered-because-of-this-image,29553/[/url] ([url]http://www.theonion.com/articles/no-one-murdered-because-of-this-image,29553/[/url])
If it's the same one I saw on facebook, it's pretty disgusting, definitely not family friendly, and not safe for work!!
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monroe Native on September 16, 2012, 07:21:02 PM
If it's the same one I saw on facebook, it's pretty disgusting, definitely not family friendly, and not safe for work!!

Definitely not safe for work - but it makes a point.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: MM1 on September 16, 2012, 09:45:33 PM
For the most part, well said!

[url]http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/human_nature/2012/09/mohammed_movie_embassy_attacks_don_t_let_internet_videos_drive_you_to_violence_.html[/url] ([url]http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/human_nature/2012/09/mohammed_movie_embassy_attacks_don_t_let_internet_videos_drive_you_to_violence_.html[/url])



Dear Muslims, Christians, Hindus, and Jews,

You’re living in the age of the Internet. Your religion will be mocked, and the mockery will find its way to you. Get over it.

If you don’t, what’s happening this week will happen again and again. A couple of idiots with a video camera and an Internet connection will trigger riots across the globe. They’ll bait you into killing one another.
Advertisement

Stop it. Stop following their script.

Today, fury, violence, and bloodshed are consuming the Muslim world. Why? Because a bank fraud artist in California offered people $75 a day to come to his house and act out scenes that ostensibly had nothing to do with Islam. Then he replaced the audio, putting words in the actors’ mouths, and stitched together the scenes to make an absurdly bad movie ridiculing the Prophet Mohammed. He put out flyers to promote the movie. Nobody—literally nobody—came to watch it.

He posted a 14-minute video excerpt of the movie on YouTube, but hardly anyone noticed. Then, a week ago, an anti-Muslim activist in Virginia reposted the video with an Arabic translation and sent the link to activists and journalists in Egypt. An Egyptian TV show aired part of the video. An Egyptian politician denounced it. Clerics sounded the alarm. Through Facebook and Twitter, protesters were mobilized to descend on the U.S. embassy in Cairo. The uprising spread. The U.S. ambassador to Libya has been killed, and violence has engulfed other countries.

When the protests broke out, the guy who made the movie claimed to be an Israeli Jew funded by other Jews. That turned out be a lie. Now he says he’s a Coptic Christian, even though Coptic Christian leaders in Egypt and the United States despise the movie and want nothing to do with him. Another guy who helped make the movie claims to be a Buddhist. The movie was made in the United States, yet Sudanese mobs have attacked British and German embassies. Some Egyptians targeted the Dutch embassy, mistakenly thinking the Netherlands was behind the movie. Everyone’s looking for a group to blame and attack.

The men behind the movie said it would expose Islam as a violent religion. Now they’re pointing to the riots as proof. Muslims are “pre-programmed” to rage and kill, says the movie’s promoter. “Islam is a cancer,” says the director. According to the distributor, “The violence that it caused in Egypt is further evidence of how violent the religion and people are and it is evidence that everything in the film is factual.”

Congratulations, rioters. You followed the script perfectly. You did the propagandists’ work for them.

And the provocations won’t end here. Laws and censors won’t protect you from them.  Liberal democracies allow freedom of expression. Our leaders and people condemn garbage like this video, but we don’t censor it. Even if we did, the diffusion of media technology makes suppression impossible. The director of this movie was forbidden, under his bank-fraud probation rules, from using computers or the Internet without approval. That didn’t stop him. Nor did it stop the Arabic-language distributor from reposting the video and disseminating it abroad.

Online propaganda is speech. But it’s also part of the global rise of lethal empowerment. It’s easier than ever to kill people. In Muslim countries, mass murderers favor bombs. In the United States, they prefer guns. In Japan, they’ve tried sarin nerve gas. The Oklahoma City bomber used fertilizer. The Sept. 11 hijackers used box cutters and passenger planes. Then came the letters filled with anthrax.

Derision is that much harder to control. The spread of digital technology and Internet bandwidth makes it possible to reach every corner of the globe almost instantly with homemade video defaming any faith tradition. It can become an incendiary weapon. But it has a weakness: It depends on you. You’re the detonator. If you don’t cooperate, the bomb doesn’t explode.

This isn’t just a Muslim problem, though that’s been the pattern lately. On YouTube, you can find videos insulting every religion on the planet: Jews, Christians, Hindus, Catholics, Mormons, Buddhists, and more. Some clips are ironic. Others are simply disgusting. Many were posted to bait one group into fighting another. The baiters are indiscriminate. The promoter of the Mohammed movie founded a group that also protests at Mormon temples.

The hatred and bloodshed will go on until you stop taking the bait. Mockery of your prophet on a computer with an Internet address somewhere in the world can no longer be your master. Nor can the puppet clerics who tell you to respond with violence. Lay down your stones and your anger. Go home and pray. God is too great to be troubled by the insults of fools. Follow Him.



Wow!  That was some pretty good stuff!  You could apply the message to any issue at all actually, but certainly to what is going on in the muslim world today. 

Baiting.  A Loser's M.O.  I SO hate it when people feed off the misery of others.  It's the true definition of a parasite.


I hope these words can find their way.  The violence is pretty loud though.  It will take a "MIRACLE" for the common sense of those words to rise above the violence.  But, that's the thing about Miracles.  Anything can happen. 


Good article Fuzz.  Thanks for sharing it. 
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Frenchfry on September 18, 2012, 12:33:41 PM
Bachmann vs. Palin, Who's Crazier?

Michele Bachmann and Sarah Palin both recently made insane statements about President Obama's reaction to the protesters in the Middle East

Bachmann vs. Palin, Who's Crazier? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lYg5P7BXEw&feature=plcp#ws)


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"We're Going To Have To Figure Out How To Balance Freedom Of Speech With National Security"

"We're Going To Have To Figure Out How To Balance Freedom Of Speech With National Security" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNYDqSBD97o&feature=plcp#)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Foreign policy taking the US on a global crash course?

It seems the only real political issue that is on the minds of Americans is the economy. With hundreds of thousands out of work and the poverty rate reaching record numbers, many are blaming President Obama for the financial mess and feel Romney can do a better job. But now with the recent demonstrations in the Arab world is it time to change focus from the economy to America's foreign policy?

Foreign policy taking the US on a global crash course? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTm_qlk-gZw&feature=plcp#)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Pax on September 18, 2012, 09:31:05 PM
Now this article spells it out in words one would hope to hear on the MSM, and from your average forum poster, but won't:

Blasphemy and Empire (http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2012/09/16/blasphemy-and-empire/) <- link

Quote
Americans are baffled: why oh why are Muslims up in arms over a YouTube video, one which no one in America even knew about prior to the attack on our Libyan consulate and the murder of Ambassador Chris Stevens? Having abandoned their own religion sometime in the last century or so, they just don’t understand why someone would get all hopped up over a little thing like blasphemy — after all, all one has to do is turn on the TV or view the latest Madonna music video and you’ll get a full dose of it.
[article continues]


    So let the unbaffling commence: let the talking heads jabber at your unplugged BoobTubes all day long and get a grip of yourselves.  It's not about YOU, or your so-called "freedoms," it's about your despotic government and the pawns it's playing against you, and yours.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on September 20, 2012, 10:38:36 AM
Ok I thought this was cute....This is a joke by the way.

(https://i.chzbgr.com/completestore/12/9/17/GWSVk3m6-UW2VkLCE74RQg2.jpg)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Baggins on September 20, 2012, 10:42:50 AM
Ok I thought this was cute....This is a joke by the way.

([url]https://i.chzbgr.com/completestore/12/9/17/GWSVk3m6-UW2VkLCE74RQg2.jpg[/url])



(http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/24.gif)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Professor H on September 20, 2012, 01:57:43 PM
I see another "excuse" to blow up stuff is going on in Paris...

Love the peaceful religion or we will blow you up   (nice message)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: blue2 on September 20, 2012, 02:10:10 PM
I see it is still Geo Bush's fault after Obama has been in office almost 4 years.  Things are worse now than the day before for everyday in the last 4 years. But all the liberals still keep thinking Obama is going to fix things.  He told us what his plan is.  Redistribute the wealth.  And I guess if I was one of those on here that are in love with Obama because he provides for them I'd be voting for him too.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: lilly on September 20, 2012, 02:27:24 PM
I see it is still Geo Bush's fault after Obama has been in office almost 4 years.  Things are worse now than the day before for everyday in the last 4 years. But all the liberals still keep thinking Obama is going to fix things.  He told us what his plan is.  Redistribute the wealth.  And I guess if I was one of those on here that are in love with Obama because he provides for them I'd be voting for him too.
Corporations want Romney in because he would provide them with tax cuts and subsidies. I guess because he promises to provide for them, they will continue to campaign and contribute to his war chest too.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on September 20, 2012, 02:39:04 PM
I see it is still Geo Bush's fault after Obama has been in office almost 4 years.  Things are worse now than the day before for everyday in the last 4 years. But all the liberals still keep thinking Obama is going to fix things.  He told us what his plan is.  Redistribute the wealth.  And I guess if I was one of those on here that are in love with Obama because he provides for them I'd be voting for him too.


Sorry, I'm in the 53%, AND I've never taken a days worth of uneployment in all my years....
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Flanders on September 20, 2012, 02:47:23 PM
So any thoughts now that the WH is backtracking on it's original "spontaneous" video inspired attacks??  Any outrage that Obama went on Letterman and continued spewing this nonsense?? Anything at all??
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: MM1 on September 20, 2012, 02:50:02 PM
So . . . . just as a person may not his (Obama) "target audience" in that 53% (and never on unemployment), why is it out of a dem's ability to comprehend that it's not only corporations who will be voting Romney?

There are MANY non-corporation people (PEOPLE) who are going to vote ROMNEY.     

There are also MANY non-welfare people who are going to vote ROMNEY.  In fact, I think many who are determined NOT to be on the welfare lines will be voting Romney. 


I think there are a surprising (and come November quite possibly SHOCKING) number of people who will be voting ROMNEY. 


JMO of course.

But, we'll see, won't we. . . . .


Hey!  Is it November yet?   ;D
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Flanders on September 20, 2012, 02:52:36 PM
8... 8 effing days it took the administration to determine that multiple attacks on the US on the anniversary of 9/11, to admit it was terrorism..

But hey now, let's not "shoot from the hip"..

This is why Romney will win.  He looked presidential while O and Co look like buffoons.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on September 20, 2012, 02:57:12 PM
8... 8 effing days it took the administration to determine that multiple attacks on the US on the anniversary of 9/11, to admit it was terrorism..

But hey now, let's not "shoot from the hip"..

This is why Romney will win.  He looked presidential while O and Co look like buffoons.

Ummm no.... Romney jumped the gun like crazy.  I'm sorry, but I would rather have a president who gets all the information prior to making a statement than one who shoots first and asks questions later.  Thats how Bush did things and it led to two wars.

So . . . . just as a person may not his (Obama) "target audience" in that 53% (and never on unemployment), why is it out of a dem's ability to comprehend that it's not only corporations who will be voting Romney?

There are MANY non-corporation people (PEOPLE) who are going to vote ROMNEY.     

There are also MANY non-welfare people who are going to vote ROMNEY.  In fact, I think many who are determined NOT to be on the welfare lines will be voting Romney. 


I think there are a surprising (and come November quite possibly SHOCKING) number of people who will be voting ROMNEY. 


JMO of course.

But, we'll see, won't we. . . . .


Hey!  Is it November yet?   ;D


Yup, keep voting for that party that calls you stupid.  They really need your vote and your money so they can redistribute it to their corporate friends.

But hey, the media can't say anything bad about Romney and his cult of a religion.  They can't question him about his leiutenants when they make huge gaffes.  They can't ask him about why he won't release his tax returns so we can see exactly what Cayman Island bank accounts he's stashing the money he robbed from companies.  Nope, can't talk about that...
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Frenchfry on September 20, 2012, 02:59:09 PM
8... 8 effing days it took the administration to determine that multiple attacks on the US on the anniversary of 9/11, to admit it was terrorism..

But hey now, let's not "shoot from the hip"..

This is why Romney will win.  He looked presidential while O and Co look like buffoons.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_XaCIkHHK7l0/TCs9TSwpKeI/AAAAAAAABlo/KS2_-6J1Tos/s1600/idiot02.jpg)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on September 20, 2012, 03:02:10 PM
([url]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_XaCIkHHK7l0/TCs9TSwpKeI/AAAAAAAABlo/KS2_-6J1Tos/s1600/idiot02.jpg[/url])


Great pic Fry.  I'm almost done with work so I'm tagging you in to take care of the correct political values side.

If any of you conservatives have Twitter and want to get to the truth behind your conservative monarchs then I suggest you follow  @LOLGOP .
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Flanders on September 20, 2012, 03:06:59 PM
([url]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_XaCIkHHK7l0/TCs9TSwpKeI/AAAAAAAABlo/KS2_-6J1Tos/s1600/idiot02.jpg[/url])


Please, someone here defend this post!!  Sureley all of you who jumped on the anti-bullying bandwagon would have something to say to FF as well right???

Probably not.

This is why I don't ignore him.  Even the town (forum) idiot provides a laugh every now and then.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: blue2 on September 20, 2012, 03:21:11 PM
Romney and Obama supporters  put it all in perspective this week.   The 47% Romney talked about are going to vote for obama because they like the free stuff.  And Obama told them he believes in wealth redistribution.  The democrat goal has been to get a majority of the people dependent upon the government and that will pretty much lock in democrats in any election and make the republican party obsolete.  One sure way to drive money out of the country.  When the US becomes like the European countries and runs out of money there will only be China to bail everyone out.  And how many people think that will ever happen.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on September 20, 2012, 03:22:24 PM
Romney and Obama supporters  put it all in perspective this week.   The 47% Romney talked about are going to vote for obama because they like the free stuff.  And Obama told them he believes in wealth redistribution.  The democrat goal has been to get a majority of the people dependent upon the government and that will pretty much lock in democrats in any election and make the republican party obsolete.  One sure way to drive money out of the country.  When the US becomes like the European countries and runs out of money there will only be China to bail everyone out.  And how many people think that will ever happen.

Have you actually taken an in depth look at who the 47% consist of?  Do you know how many of the 53% are actually going to vote for Obama?
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Baggins on September 20, 2012, 05:36:01 PM
8... 8 effing days it took the administration to determine that multiple attacks on the US on the anniversary of 9/11, to admit it was terrorism..

But hey now, let's not "shoot from the hip"..

This is why Romney will win.  He looked presidential while O and Co look like buffoons.



Well, NO F***ING S*** IT WAS TERRORISM...no reason to determine anything other than just acknowledging it...WTF else do you want...???

You sound like a parrot for the GOP... 8*

"This is why Romney will win", do you even know how f***ing ridiculous that sounds within the context of the situation?   FFS, go do something other than touting trash, read a book, rent a movie, go for a walk or bike ride, anything to get that obstinate attitude under control!


I am so sick of this headbutting election BS...F***ing grow up people and live your own f***ing lives and stop trying to tell others how they should think or feel about anything!   YOU'RE ALL F***ING ROBOTS!!!!



(http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/35.gif)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: The Fuzz on September 20, 2012, 06:23:19 PM
Perhaps the Republicans and Romney have the Arabs in their hip pocket and instigated this entire this latest terrorism to prove Obama a liar that the world and the US are not as safe as he has touted.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Flanders on September 20, 2012, 07:56:22 PM

Well, NO F***ING S*** IT WAS TERRORISM...no reason to determine anything other than just acknowledging it...WTF else do you want...???

You sound like a parrot for the GOP... 8*

"This is why Romney will win", do you even know how f***ing ridiculous that sounds within the context of the situation?   FFS, go do something other than touting trash, read a book, rent a movie, go for a walk or bike ride, anything to get that obstinate attitude under control!


I am so sick of this headbutting election BS...F***ing grow up people and live your own f***ing lives and stop trying to tell others how they should think or feel about anything!   YOU'RE ALL F***ING ROBOTS!!!!



([url]http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/35.gif[/url])


LoL.. don't you have some hobbit bread to make or role play some lotr scenes with your "friends"?
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: blue2 on September 20, 2012, 07:58:27 PM
I think pretty much everyone knows who the 47% are.  Just pull into the city limits of Toledo or Detroit or a lot of other major cities.  And yeah there are some of the 53% voting for obama because they always vote for a democrat.  Once obama has the union forces built up again and 50% of the people on welfare and other government handouts the U.S. will be a one party system and the government will run everything and everybody.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Flanders on September 20, 2012, 08:12:56 PM
Ok Ok baggins that comment was uncalled for and let me tell you why..

It's not an obstinate attitude, it's a realistic attitude and yes, this is why Romney will win.

But I understand your little tirade you just had there..

For 4 years you had the Obama sparkle in your eye.  You shared the thrill up your leg with Chris Matthews every time Obama spoke.  Now, his inept leadership can really no longer be hidden.  Did you even watch any of the news cycle today??  Every time someone from the Obama admin was challenged with questions such as.. Why wasn't US soil and ambassadors properly protected?  Why didn't we know about these attacks sooner?  Why was Obama in Las Vegas as the attacks on the US continued?  Why were we told they were not planned and in fact simply outrage over a film?  Why aren't these considered terrorist attacks?

And what was each and every response??  "well look at Romney..."

That's it. That's all they have left. And everyone is starting to realize it. I suspect you as well, subconsciously perhaps.  So I understand you all in red angry response.  It's part of the detox process.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: sammy on September 20, 2012, 08:22:06 PM
Ok Ok baggins that comment was uncalled for and let me tell you why..

It's not an obstinate attitude, it's a realistic attitude and yes, this is why Romney will win.

But I understand your little tirade you just had there..

For 4 years you had the Obama sparkle in your eye.  You shared the thrill up your leg with Chris Matthews every time Obama spoke.  Now, his inept leadership can really no longer be hidden.  Did you even watch any of the news cycle today??  Every time someone from the Obama admin was challenged with questions such as.. Why wasn't US soil and ambassadors properly protected?  Why didn't we know about these attacks sooner?  Why was Obama in Las Vegas as the attacks on the US continued?  Why were we told they were not planned and in fact simply outrage over a film?  Why aren't these considered terrorist attacks?

And what was each and every response??  "well look at Romney..."

That's it. That's all they have left. And everyone is starting to realize it. I suspect you as well, subconsciously perhaps.  So I understand you all in red angry response.  It's part of the detox process.
Romney winning is only a wish-dream. Not gonna happen.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: ducksoup on September 20, 2012, 08:26:11 PM
I think pretty much everyone knows who the 47% are.  Just pull into the city limits of Toledo or Detroit or a lot of other major cities.  And yeah there are some of the 53% voting for obama because they always vote for a democrat.  Once obama has the union forces built up again and 50% of the people on welfare and other government handouts the U.S. will be a one party system and the government will run everything and everybody.

Or you could "pull in" to a a bunch of red states with higher proportions of the 47% that vote republican all the time.  OR the senior citizens that are in the 47% that always vote republican.  But, gosh, by the right speak, the 47% is all lazy gutter trash... unless they vote R, and then they are just sedentary individuals of excess accumulations.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: ducksoup on September 20, 2012, 08:29:40 PM
Ok Ok baggins that comment was uncalled for and let me tell you why..

It's not an obstinate attitude, it's a realistic attitude and yes, this is why Romney will win.

But I understand your little tirade you just had there..

For 4 years you had the Obama sparkle in your eye.  You shared the thrill up your leg with Chris Matthews every time Obama spoke.  Now, his inept leadership can really no longer be hidden.  Did you even watch any of the news cycle today??  Every time someone from the Obama admin was challenged with questions such as.. Why wasn't US soil and ambassadors properly protected?  Why didn't we know about these attacks sooner?  Why was Obama in Las Vegas as the attacks on the US continued?  Why were we told they were not planned and in fact simply outrage over a film?  Why aren't these considered terrorist attacks?

And what was each and every response??  "well look at Romney..."

That's it. That's all they have left. And everyone is starting to realize it. I suspect you as well, subconsciously perhaps.  So I understand you all in red angry response.  It's part of the detox process.
And Romney and his surrogates have never ever gone even close to negative... LOL
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Flanders on September 20, 2012, 08:36:27 PM
And Romney and his surrogates have never ever gone even close to negative... LOL

Thank you for exactly making my point  8)

us soil is attacked, an ambassador is killed, our flag is torn down and a black terrorist flag is flown im its place..

And all you Obama drones have left is b..b..buuut romney.......   sad.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: ducksoup on September 20, 2012, 10:36:19 PM
Thank you for exactly making my point  8)

us soil is attacked, an ambassador is killed, our flag is torn down and a black terrorist flag is flown im its place..

And all you Obama drones have left is b..b..buuut romney.......   sad.

Interesting.  You rant that all Obama and anyone not kissing Romney s gold plated money clip have only the ability to go negative.  Yet, if I point out that Romney and his big dollar billionaires have been negative it is defending Obama?  What?

I get it... there is nothing on this planet or anywhere else that Obama or any other not radical tea worshiper can do that you would approve of.  What I have seen is that Mr. Romney has been forced to go very far to the right to appeal to those like you to get you enthused enough to go vote for him.  But, you don't seem to see that he is alienating everyone else but the extreme fringe right.

Correct or not, this election has been framed by both candidates over trickle down economics.  One side doesn't want it, the other does.  I am just not seeing that many people saying "Oh yeah!  We have to go back to the same policies the helped cause the crash."

To be honest, I think Romney got a bad hand to play.  The Republican obstruction and record filibuster, and hostage taking was not forgotten.  The promise to do whatever it takes to make Obama a one term president at any cost, including NOT doing anything to help correct the economy has not been forgotten.  Trouncing on women's rights definitely are not forgotten.

With the economy as it is, this should be a walk in the park for Romney.  The polls should be lopsided in his favor.  The fact that it is not is not Obama's doing, but a result of R policies.

I am unsure where you get your fanaticism over him in the election.  I see a close race that either could win.  However, at the moment at least, Obama is leading by about 5% even with Fox polls.  I am sure that will change back to closer, but it still doesn't give Romney the odds... just a  chance.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Flanders on September 20, 2012, 11:01:06 PM
Again you prove my point!!!!  Your entire response has NOTHING to do with the topic, because it makes libs uncomfortable.. ha.

I'm not talking about who's going negative, or who has what economic policy, or who's polling better...

I'm talking about the mideast failure that is developing each day, and the fact that Obama is off to Vegas rather than dealing with this finally admitted to "terrorist attack".

The only thing that brings this election into the discussion is people such as yourself that cannot acknowledge Obama's failure here and thus must insert Romney at every chance possible.  Let's pretend this happened 2 months from now under Obama's watch.  Then what's your response?  Blame Bush???? lol
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: ducksoup on September 20, 2012, 11:20:55 PM
Again you prove my point!!!!  Your entire response has NOTHING to do with the topic, because it makes libs uncomfortable.. ha.

I'm not talking about who's going negative, or who has what economic policy, or who's polling better...

I'm talking about the mideast failure that is developing each day, and the fact that Obama is off to Vegas rather than dealing with this finally admitted to "terrorist attack".

The only thing that brings this election into the discussion is people such as yourself that cannot acknowledge Obama's failure here and thus must insert Romney at every chance possible.  Let's pretend this happened 2 months from now under Obama's watch.  Then what's your response?  Blame Bush???? lol

Typical tea radical  I respond to your off topic posts and you blame me for being off topic.

As for Obama getting the facts and waiting a week to publicly say it was terrorism... so what?  Bush took less than a day to blame Sadam Hussein for the Twin Towers and wow he got that one right; sigh.  OMG, I said Bush, call the thought police.. Quick!
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: marilyn.monroe on September 21, 2012, 07:57:28 AM
Idk why the heck the gov even has embassies in hot spots, they can't even secure the embassy in Mexico.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Baggins on September 21, 2012, 09:34:48 AM
Idk why the heck the gov even has embassies in hot spots, they can't even secure the embassy in Mexico.


It's all part of being diplomatic... 8*
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Frenchfry on September 22, 2012, 03:19:27 PM
"After months of court battles, a heavily debated anti-Jihad ad, sponsored by The American Freedom Defense Initiative is scheduled to run in ten subway stations throughout the New York City Metro Area within the next week." Cenk Uygur of The Young Turks also discusses protests in France because of insulting political cartoons on the cover of French magazine.

Offensive Ads in NYC Subway (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glLpxusrT4I&feature=plcp#ws)


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Egypt charges Coptic Christians linked to infamous video

(CNN) -- Egyptian authorities have charged seven Coptic Christians living in the United States and a Florida pastor with insulting Islam and inciting sectarian strife for their alleged links to an online video that has enraged much of the Muslim world.

Egypt's public prosecutor announced the charges Tuesday, the latest development in the deadly backlash against the low-budget, amateurish 14-minute movie trailer produced privately in the United States and posted on YouTube.

The clip from "The Innocence of Muslims" mocks the Muslim Prophet Mohammed as a womanizer, child molester and killer.

"Innocence of Muslims" was an obscure Internet video until September 11, when rioters, seizing on it, breached the U.S. Embassy in Cairo. Protesters also attacked the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi, Libya, killing U.S. Ambassador Chris Stevens and three other Americans.

The charges -- largely symbolic because the accused all live outside Egypt -- name alleged filmmaker Nakoula Basseley Nakoula, who is identified by Egyptian officials as Elia Bassili.

Reports that Nakoula is a Coptic Christian have raised concern about a possible backlash against the minority religious group in Egypt, where tensions between Copts and Muslims have risen recently.

More here:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/18/world/film-protests/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/18/world/film-protests/index.html)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Professor H on September 22, 2012, 03:57:24 PM
I doubt that the radicals in the "protesting" countries have internet let alone scan Youtube for videos related to Muslims.   Well maybe in France - but they choose to wait and then attack a grocery store to send a strong message to the rest of the world.
   ... we will act with reckless disregard against innocents if someone in another country does something we don't like...

It's just another excuse for them to do what they do best... Kill and terrorize in the name of their religion.   
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Frenchfry on September 22, 2012, 10:26:47 PM
If only the Coptic Christians hadn't started this mess in the first place.

Some people just can't mind their own business.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Will Sweat on September 23, 2012, 10:58:31 AM
If only the Coptic Christians hadn't started this mess in the first place.

Some people just can't mind their own business.

Not sure if you are referring to the video the "Innocence of Islam" but if so (assuming many of us have seen it), what a silly film and ten minutes of my life that I have lost forever.  I wanted to see what the fuss was supposedly over and watched it. 

I believe those that produced the film / video had the constitutional right to do so and while I don't agree with the message I do support and defiant that right.  I also believe that the film / video is more of a red herring and is not the underlying reason for the murder of four American citizens. 

Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Baggins on September 23, 2012, 12:58:04 PM
Not sure if you are referring to the video the "Innocence of Islam" but if so (assuming many of us have seen it), what a silly film and ten minutes of my life that I have lost forever.  I wanted to see what the fuss was supposedly over and watched it. 

I believe those that produced the film / video had the constitutional right to do so and while I don't agree with the message I do support and defiant that right.  I also believe that the film / video is more of a red herring and is not the underlying reason for the murder of four American citizens.


I agree 100% with everything you said...!
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: forever39 on September 23, 2012, 01:20:58 PM
I wholeheartedly agree with Will & Baggins!
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Frenchfry on September 23, 2012, 05:12:02 PM
Not so sure....that "free speech" reminds me of someone shouting fire in a crowded theater.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shouting_fire_in_a_crowded_theater (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shouting_fire_in_a_crowded_theater)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: MM1 on September 23, 2012, 05:17:15 PM
Agree with Will, Baggins, forever39   X 1000 ! ! !
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Professor H on September 24, 2012, 08:39:40 AM
Not so sure....that "free speech" reminds me of someone shouting fire in a crowded theater.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shouting_fire_in_a_crowded_theater[/url] ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shouting_fire_in_a_crowded_theater[/url])

Big difference in voicing an opion about a religion and shouting a danger warning that could cause panic and injury...  Supreme Court has defined it as such

Just like your free speach can't be slanderous .

Mideast and other Muslim radicals are always looking for an excuse, and because of their actions, and the lack of any outcry from the rest of the Muslims - who apparently don't have a voice or bullypulpit, it has caused many in the rest of the world to no longer trust them. 
Even Obama has stated we don't know if Egypt is a friend or ally anymore since the Muslims took over.   
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on September 24, 2012, 08:51:13 AM
30,000 Pro American Demonstrators Ransack Islamic Compound in Benghazi

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/40954_Pro-America_Libyan_Demonstrators_Wreck_Islamist_Compound_in_Benghazi (http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/40954_Pro-America_Libyan_Demonstrators_Wreck_Islamist_Compound_in_Benghazi)

Quote
An amazing story from Libya today, where pro-America protesters staged a huge demonstration, and stormed and ransacked the base of the main radical Islamist militia: Libyan Demonstrators Wreck Militia Compound in Benghazi.


Click the link for the full story.  I'm glad to see the number of American supporters is so high.


Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Baggins on September 24, 2012, 09:29:33 AM
Not so sure....that "free speech" reminds me of someone shouting fire in a crowded theater.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shouting_fire_in_a_crowded_theater[/url] ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shouting_fire_in_a_crowded_theater[/url])



That isn't free speech, it's more akin to inciting panic in a small crowd...Not the same and not relevant...
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: The Fuzz on September 25, 2012, 07:44:57 PM
Now I agree with Bill on this one.....well, and the one where he said head is not sex.


Bill Clinton on anti-Islam film: "You can't react every time you're insulted"

 http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57519582/bill-clinton-on-anti-islam-film-you-cant-react-every-time-youre-insulted/ (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57519582/bill-clinton-on-anti-islam-film-you-cant-react-every-time-youre-insulted/)

(CBS News) Former President Bill Clinton addressed the recent unrest in the Muslim world over a U.S.-made film insulting the prophet Muhammad, saying that while the underlying message is offensive, "you can't react every time you're insulted."

Clinton sat down with "CBS This Morning" co-hosts Charlie Rose and Norah O'Donnell to discuss his thoughts on the turmoil in the Middle East as the Clinton Global Initiative begins its annual meeting in New York City this week.

Touching on the controversial amateur film that sparked much of the current violence across the Middle East, Clinton defended the U.S. government's handling of the event.

"We weren't disrespecting Islam by not squelching a film trailer that nobody in authority knew anything about; that 99 percent of us think was crude, and disrespectful, and awful," he said. "We have learned the hard way, over more than 200 years, that in order to preserve freedom, and liberty, including the freedom of religion, you have to allow people to say and do things that you find abhorrent. And you can't react every time you're insulted."

"If you live in a shame-based society where you think nothing good's gonna happen, the temptation is to wait for somebody to say something you'd find offensive and you can lash out against it. But free people absorb destructive things and refuse to be destroyed."

"You cannot live in a shame-based world. You won't make it in the 21st century. There's too much diversity. There's too much stuff goin' on the internet You gotta be able to say, if you believe in Islam, that, 'I believe in a god and a prophet strong enough to withstand the criticisms of petty, narrow-minded, mean-spirited people. I believe that the cultural crassness I abhor will, in the end, fall before the values that I exalt.'"

Regarding the ongoing violence in Syria, which neither the U.S. nor U.N. have been able to end, Clinton called the situation "really difficult," but suggested the U.S. consider "nonlethal options" to support the Syrian opposition. When pressed as to what those options might be, Clinton said "Well, I don't know ... They're getting guns. Who's giving 'em to 'em?"

The Clinton Global Initiative comes as world leaders descend on the city for the meeting of the UN General Assembly. President Obama will speak at the Clinton Global Initiative meeting after he delivers his address to the UN and the organization will also host Mitt Romney Tuesday as well. The organization was created in 2005 to address a wide range of social issues around the world. Recently, the organization has focused on the plight of women and girls
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: The Fuzz on September 28, 2012, 06:09:51 PM
I can't recall but when this first happen did the Administration spokesman come right out and say that it was not believed to be a terrorist action?  If so, they probably could have worded it such that there was not evidence at the time to support if it was or wasn't.

U.S. now says Benghazi attack was "deliberate and organized"

http://news.yahoo.com/u-now-says-benghazi-attack-deliberate-organized-201611151.html (http://news.yahoo.com/u-now-says-benghazi-attack-deliberate-organized-201611151.html)

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The top U.S. intelligence authority issued an unusual public statement on Friday, declaring it now believed the September 11 attack on U.S. diplomatic facilities in Benghazi, Libya, was a "deliberate and organized terrorist attack."

The statement, by the office of Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, acknowledged that it represented a change in the U.S. intelligence assessment of how and why the attack happened. During the attack on two U.S. government compounds in the eastern Libyan city, four U.S. personnel, including Ambassador Christopher Stevens, were killed.

Shawn Turner, spokesman for Clapper's office, said that in the immediate aftermath of the attack, U.S. agencies came to the view that the Benghazi attack had begun spontaneously following protests at the U.S. Embassy in Cairo against a short film made in California lampooning the Prophet Mohammad.

Turner said that as U.S. intelligence subsequently learned more about the attack, "We revised our initial assessment to reflect new information indicating that it was a deliberate and organized terrorist attack carried out by extremists."

However, he said it remained "unclear" if any individual or specific group orchestrated the attack. U.S. agencies nonetheless say that some of the militants involved in the attack were "linked to groups affiliated with, or sympathetic to al-Qaeda."
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Professor H on September 28, 2012, 11:31:58 PM
Bill Clinton on anti-Islam film: "You can't react every time you're insulted"

Unless you happen to be a radical Muslim - then it doesn't really matter the message.
(http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/ca092712dBP20120925104519.jpg)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monroe Native on October 01, 2012, 12:39:17 PM
http://www.france24.com/en/20120928-christians-flee-egypt-town-after-death-threats (http://www.france24.com/en/20120928-christians-flee-egypt-town-after-death-threats)

AFP - Several Christian families have fled their homes in Egypt's Sinai peninsula after receiving death threats from suspected Islamist militants, officials and residents told AFP on Friday.

Last week, flyers began circulating in the town of Rafah on the Gaza Strip border demanding that its tiny Coptic population move out, residents said.

Officials at the local church informed the authorities of the threats, but no actin was taken, they added.

Days later, a shop belonging to one of the families was fired on with automatic rifles, witnesses said.

The events prompted the families to leave Rafah but there were conflicting accounts over whether they had done so voluntarily or been evicted.

This is Muslims doing what Muslims do when their "peaceful" religion becomes the majority force - at that point it is NOT okay to believe in other religions.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on October 01, 2012, 12:48:32 PM
Again, these are extremeists.  It would be like me saying the KKK represents all Xtians.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monroe Native on October 01, 2012, 04:25:25 PM
Again, these are extremeists.  It would be like me saying the KKK represents all Xtians.

I wish you were correct that these are just extremists, but in fact this is EXACTLY what Islam instructs the faithful to do once they are in the majority.

Have you ever wondered why you don't find Christian Churches in Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc etc etc?

It is because THIS IS THE NORM!

Please stop being so naive, because if we pretend this is the exception instead of the rule it will happen here also.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Professor H on October 01, 2012, 05:18:47 PM
Again, these are extremeists.  It would be like me saying the KKK represents all Xtians.
Problem is they are also the government or have the government powerless or under pressure that they will do the same to them...,
Thus the "Islamic" based governments don't do anything out of fear.

Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monrover on October 01, 2012, 05:37:54 PM
Why should we as a nation be more upset over this recent attack on our citizens than we have been?

What is an 'ambassador?'
An ambassador is the highest ranking representative of our Head of State (President) in a foreign land.

Who is the President?
The highest ranking elected official of the Executive Branch of our country.

What is the President's primary duty?
He is the elected citizen-leader of the military. Both he and all military personnel have sworn to protect and defend the Constitution.

Why is killing our Ambassador a 'bad thing?'
Because the premeditated murder on a historically important date was a direct attack upon our highest elected office holder, who has a sworn duty to protect and defend the nation.

Therefore, the terrorist have proven again that they can attack the highest levels of our government at will. The consequence is that we will allow ourselves to be sidetracked by a red-herring argument that the attack was our fault, instigated by a video made in our country.

Have we forgotten the words that JFK spoke in his inaugural? ..." Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty."

The character of this nation is in question when we have leaders that lack clarity and determination in protecting our self-interest anywhere on the globe. Oh, and by the way, we were attacked on sovereign American soil...
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Professor H on October 01, 2012, 06:01:25 PM
Well in all fairness to the President, he was kind of busy that week and a week is about the attention span of the media - so we probably won't do anything...
(http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/mrz100112dAPR20120929014542.jpg)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monroe Native on October 01, 2012, 06:27:00 PM
Why should we as a nation be more upset over this recent attack on our citizens than we have been?

What is an 'ambassador?'
An ambassador is the highest ranking representative of our Head of State (President) in a foreign land.

Who is the President?
The highest ranking elected official of the Executive Branch of our country.

What is the President's primary duty?
He is the elected citizen-leader of the military. Both he and all military personnel have sworn to protect and defend the Constitution.

Why is killing our Ambassador a 'bad thing?'
Because the premeditated murder on a historically important date was a direct attack upon our highest elected office holder, who has a sworn duty to protect and defend the nation.

Therefore, the terrorist have proven again that they can attack the highest levels of our government at will. The consequence is that we will allow ourselves to be sidetracked by a red-herring argument that the attack was our fault, instigated by a video made in our country.

Have we forgotten the words that JFK spoke in his inaugural? ..." Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty."

The character of this nation is in question when we have leaders that lack clarity and determination in protecting our self-interest anywhere on the globe. Oh, and by the way, we were attacked on sovereign American soil...

Exactly right.

This is no different then when the Iranians attacked our embassy in 1979.

An attack on an ambassador or an embassy is an attack on the United States.

A weak response only emboldens the "extremists" to do more, because unlike Kennedy Obama will do NOTHING.

This is perhaps the most compelling reason of all (out of many compelling arguments) to put this country under new management.

Vote for Romney.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on October 01, 2012, 06:36:59 PM
Wow....just wow.....you folks don't understand the Koran at all.  You say nothing when the people protest the extremeists. 


What do you want Monroe?  Do you want another war?  I can hear it in your head, "Let's turn those sand ******* into glass!  This is 'Merica!"

Then people bash Obama because he went on The View instead of catering to the prime minister of Israel.  I don't care about the PM of Israel.  He has proven himself to be a crackpot and that's one of the many reasons why he didn't meet with him.  Do a little research and you will discover that.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Baggins on October 01, 2012, 07:04:24 PM
Wow....just wow.....you folks don't understand the Koran at all.  You say nothing when the people protest the extremeists. 


What do you want Monroe?  Do you want another war?  I can hear it in your head, "Let's turn those sand ******* into glass!  This is 'Merica!"

Then people bash Obama because he went on The View instead of catering to the prime minister of Israel.  I don't care about the PM of Israel.  He has proven himself to be a crackpot and that's one of the many reasons why he didn't meet with him.  Do a little research and you will discover that.


Yes, I think they all want another war, we haven't killed our quota of brown people in a while...Hell, they'd love it if the pope stood up and declared another crusade...Cleanse the holy land!
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monroe Native on October 01, 2012, 07:29:54 PM
Wow....just wow.....you folks don't understand the Koran at all.  You say nothing when the people protest the extremeists. 


What do you want Monroe?  Do you want another war?  I can hear it in your head, "Let's turn those sand ******* into glass!  This is 'Merica!"

Then people bash Obama because he went on The View instead of catering to the prime minister of Israel.  I don't care about the PM of Israel.  He has proven himself to be a crackpot and that's one of the many reasons why he didn't meet with him.  Do a little research and you will discover that.

Wow.  You just don't understand the nature of true evil at all, do you.

Lets give peace a chance.  Pass the joint my friend.

The next war is going to start when Israel defends itself against Iran.

Ahmadinejad has clearly stated on any number of occasions his goals and intentions for Israel.  That "crackpot" that your President decided to not meet instead of going on the VIEW is in fact a very eloquent person who DOES understand the nature of pure evil - as does the rest of his people. 

Unlike you he understands the evil - and he will confront it on his own - as he has stated.  When that happens Iran has PROMISED to attack US interests.

What do YOU propose to do THEN!

You need to study and understand the KORAN - not just what you hear about on NPR.

I won't call you stupid - but I will call you naive.  A mixed message by the US state department made Saddam Hussein believe he had a blessing to invade Kuwait, and it led to a war.  What message is Obama sending Iran right now, and where is THAT leading?

As Ronald Reagan so eloquently put "The task that has fallen to us as Americans is to move the conscience of the world, to keep alive the hope and dream of freedom. For if we fail or falter, there'll be no place for the world's oppressed to flee to. This is not a role we sought. We preach no manifest destiny. But like the Americans who brought a new nation into the world 200 years ago, history has asked much of us in our time. Much we've already given; much more we must be prepared to give."

I do believe that statement.  Peace through strength.  Peace through courage.  Obama's weakness is sinking the world towards war.  It is NOT what I want - but it is what you get when you send a weak, submissive message in an evil world.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: T-M-T on October 01, 2012, 07:57:51 PM
I'm not going to get any more worked up over the death of one American "ambassador" than the deaths of the many thousands of other Americans sent to die in the Middle East or the tens of thousands of innocent people murdered on their own "sovereign soil" by our military.   

Terrorists killed 2,000 people here on our soil back in 2001.  Responding by sending tens of thousands more Americans to their countries to be killed and destroying our economy in the process was more of a reward than a punishment. 

The Republican "They hate us because they hate our freedom." mantra is the biggest bunch of BS ever.  They hate us because we won't stay out of their business and respect their "sovereign soil."  I do give Ron Paul a lot of credit for being the only politician with the stones to actually say this.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monroe Native on October 01, 2012, 08:19:34 PM
I'm not going to get any more worked up over the death of one American "ambassador" than the deaths of the many thousands of other Americans sent to die in the Middle East or the tens of thousands of innocent people murdered on their own "sovereign soil" by our military.   

Terrorists killed 2,000 people here on our soil back in 2001.  Responding by sending tens of thousands more Americans to their countries to be killed and destroying our economy in the process was more of a reward than a punishment. 

The Republican "They hate us because they hate our freedom." mantra is the biggest bunch of BS ever.  They hate us because we won't stay out of their business and respect their "sovereign soil."  I do give Ron Paul a lot of credit for being the only politician with the stones to actually say this.

Wow.  From this statement I am sure you appreciated all the apologizing that the US State Department and President of the United States did for a video that had nothing to do with the violence in the Middle East by the totally peaceful Muslims.

I guess after 9/11 we should have apologized and hoped they were satisfied with that number of deaths and they wouldn't want more?  I mean - it was our fault after all, we had it coming, right?

I guess sabre rattling by Bill Clinton and sending our troops around the world was okay, but the Bush's were just out to conquer an empire for us.  Never mind Bill Clinton didn't deal with the threat after we were attacked numerous times by the same group.

I am not naive enough to ignore the presence of evil on this planet.

I am not apologetic for American values - and for America being the one country on the planet that can be counted on to confront tyranny.

I am not naive enough to understand that evil on this planet hate what we stand for.

I don't want a war, and I don't think it would happen if we had the strength and the resolve to use it.

I know a weak military and a waffling regime in the White House WILL result in conflict, whether we want it or not.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on October 02, 2012, 07:48:13 AM
And yet you have no idea the current state of Iran.  Amadenijad is a lame duck president who has no real power anyway.  There will be no war with israel and if there is I say we stay out of it.  That is definitely not our fight.

Like TMT said, I'm not going to get upset any further about ONE ambassador die when Bush allowed the twin towers to come down.  It's funny how you blame Obama for having a weak forigen policy yet you don't complain about Bush who allowed an attack to happen on our soil for the first time since Pearl Harbor.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: old salt on October 02, 2012, 07:56:58 AM

Like TMT said, I'm not going to get upset any further about ONE ambassador die when Bush allowed the twin towers to come down.  It's funny how you blame Obama for having a weak forigen policy yet you don't complain about Bush who allowed an attack to happen on our soil for the first time since Pearl Harbor.

Cuckoo. cuckoo. cuckoo.  Tin foil hat time.  Pass the popcorn.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on October 02, 2012, 08:04:57 AM
Not really.  I posted links that show bush had knowledge of an impending attack as early as May 2001 but he ignored it because he was more focused on Saddam Hussein.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monroe Native on October 02, 2012, 08:57:40 AM
And yet you have no idea the current state of Iran.  Amadenijad is a lame duck president who has no real power anyway.  There will be no war with israel and if there is I say we stay out of it.  That is definitely not our fight.

Like TMT said, I'm not going to get upset any further about ONE ambassador die when Bush allowed the twin towers to come down.  It's funny how you blame Obama for having a weak forigen policy yet you don't complain about Bush who allowed an attack to happen on our soil for the first time since Pearl Harbor.

First attack since Pearl Harbor?

Do you forget that the towers were attacked when Bill Clinton was in office?  Do you forget the USS Cole being attacked? 

Remember how Janet Reno treated all these attacks like a law enforcement issue?

You don't want to do anything about Iran - yet you fault Bush for 9/11.  OR - did Bush stage 9/11?  I bet you are one of those 9/11 truthers who think it was all a pre-text to invade Iraq.

LOL!
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Frenchfry on October 02, 2012, 09:07:22 AM
Cuckoo. cuckoo. cuckoo.  Tin foil hat time.  Pass the popcorn.
You must go through a lot of foil.
(I suspect hats can contribute to baldness...maybe that's why the majority of righties are bald or balding)

(http://bigrab.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/tin-foil-hat.jpg)

I suspect you're glued to right-wing sources spewing anything advocating warmongering...but I've noted that the vast majority of those warmongers either chose not to serve or eluded military service in some way...such as draft dodger Romney.

And then there's the cost to consider....which reveals just how phony fiscal conservatism really is.

Not to mention the contradiction of the right with their mantra of smaller government.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monroe Native on October 02, 2012, 09:15:35 AM
What branch of the service did Obama serve in?  Acorn?
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Frenchfry on October 02, 2012, 09:30:07 AM
What branch of the service did Obama serve in?  Acorn?
Obama has never served in the military. However, during an interview in 2008, Obama revealed that he did entertain the idea of joining the service after graduating from high school.

“You know, I actually did. I had to sign up for Selective Service when I graduated from high school. And I was growing up in Hawaii. And I have friends whose parents were in the military. There are a lot of Army, military bases there. And I actually always thought of the military as an ennobling and, you know, honorable option. But keep in mind that I graduated in 1979. The Vietnam War had come to an end. We weren't engaged in an active military conflict at that point. And so, it's not an option that I ever decided to pursue.”
September 6, 2008: Obama speaking to George Stephanopoulos on ABC’s ‘This Week’

His grandfather, Stanley Dunham, served with the Army during World War II. He was a supply sergeant with the 1830th Ordnance Supply and Maintenance Company and was involved in combat several times, most notably during D-Day.
http://2012.presidential-candidates.org/Obama/Military.php (http://2012.presidential-candidates.org/Obama/Military.php)


Romney is a hypocrite about military service

Fellow veterans and those who support our troops, read the June 5 Associated Press story by Steve Peoples concerning Mitt Romney’s nonmilitary record.

Romney, now 65, of draft age during the Vietnam War, actively supported the war effort, yet chose not to volunteer. Instead, after high school, he sought and received four draft deferments, according to Selective Service records. They included a 31-month stretch as a missionary for his Mormon church proselytizing his religion in France.

As a presidential candidate in 2007, Romney told The Boston Globe, “I was supportive of my country. I longed, in many respects, to actually be in Vietnam and be representing our country there, and in some ways it was frustrating not to feel like I was there as part of the troops that were fighting in Vietnam.”

But the frustration he recalled in 2007 does not match a sentiment he shared as a Massachusetts Senate candidate in 1994, when he told The Boston Herald, “I was not planning on signing up for the military ... It was not my desire to go off and serve in Vietnam ... ”

Mitt’s five able-bodied sons have never served our country.

From Romney’s own words and record regarding Vietnam, you see he is a hypocrite and a “chicken hawk.”

One need not possess an honorable discharge from the U.S. armed forces to be considered a patriot, but clearly Romney is not fit to decide when and where to send our sons and daughters to war. Vote for Barack Obama as commander-in-chief and president.
http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2012/10/letter_romney_is_a_hypocrite_a.html (http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2012/10/letter_romney_is_a_hypocrite_a.html)

And of course you didn't serve either.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Professor H on October 02, 2012, 09:58:02 AM
Not really.  I posted links that show bush had knowledge of an impending attack as early as May 2001 but he ignored it because he was more focused on Saddam Hussein.
Gee you mean hindsight is pretty easy when it comes to judgment?
You probably blame Pearl Harbor on the President as well, as supposedly they were warned - Let's not put any blame or responsibility on the attackers or we wouldn't be able to make it a political issue  8*

There have been bits and pieces of intelligence that warn of attacks all the time - that's nothing new as the radical (terrorist) Muslims and other Terrorists have been planning them for years, they just shift their targets around - but they always seem to find innocents for targets.

We were warned of impending attacks by Bin Laden long ago, during the Iran Contra hearings - When Colonel North mentioned it.   


Per Fry's last Post - it's interesting he touts it now (Obama not volunteering -after the Vietnam war and the draft ended) - when in a discussion with myself and I used the same reason - he thought much different about it.   

It's those "D" colored glasses I guess - If Obama "thought about it once", its okay...  8*

Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Professor H on October 02, 2012, 10:05:59 AM
I'm not going to get any more worked up over the death of one American "ambassador" than the deaths of the many thousands of other Americans sent to die in the Middle East or the tens of thousands of innocent people murdered on their own "sovereign soil" by our military.   

Gotcha down for not wanting to defend sovereignty and move towards isolationism

Ron Paul???  time to move on, he lost running on his ideology  8*
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Frenchfry on October 02, 2012, 10:13:03 AM
Gee you mean hindsight is pretty easy when it comes to judgment?
You probably blame Pearl Harbor on the President as well, as supposedly they were warned - Let's not put any blame or responsibility on the attackers or we wouldn't be able to make it a political issue  8*

There have been bits and pieces of intelligence that warn of attacks all the time - that's nothing new as the radical (terrorist) Muslims and other Terrorists have been planning them for years, they just shift their targets around - but they always seem to find innocents for targets.

We were warned of impending attacks by Bin Laden long ago, during the Iran Contra hearings - When Colonel North mentioned it.   


Per Fry's last Post - it's interesting he touts it now (Obama not volunteering -after the Vietnam war and the draft ended) - when in a discussion with myself and I used the same reason - he thought much different about it.   

It's those "D" colored glasses I guess - If Obama "thought about it once", its okay...  8*
You're candidate (Romney) dodged the draft during a time when there were active conflicts.

Obama was too young at the time so he didn't face those same issues.

YOU chose not to serve as well.

http://2012.candidate-comparison.org/?compare=Romney&vs=Obama&on=Military (http://2012.candidate-comparison.org/?compare=Romney&vs=Obama&on=Military)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: marilyn.monroe on October 02, 2012, 10:20:29 AM
I'm not going to get any more worked up over the death of one American "ambassador" than the deaths of the many thousands of other Americans sent to die in the Middle East or the tens of thousands of innocent people murdered on their own "sovereign soil" by our military.   

Terrorists killed 2,000 people here on our soil back in 2001.  Responding by sending tens of thousands more Americans to their countries to be killed and destroying our economy in the process was more of a reward than a punishment. 

The Republican "They hate us because they hate our freedom." mantra is the biggest bunch of BS ever.  They hate us because we won't stay out of their business and respect their "sovereign soil."  I do give Ron Paul a lot of credit for being the only politician with the stones to actually say this.
Killing the ambassador was a coup for the enemies. They distinguish between ranks.
We may not agree the government should be there, but it is, and it should have been secured.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: marilyn.monroe on October 02, 2012, 10:22:03 AM
Cuckoo. cuckoo. cuckoo.  Tin foil hat time.  Pass the popcorn.
Pass the tin foil.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Professor H on October 02, 2012, 10:29:36 AM
You're candidate (Romney) dodged the draft during a time when there were active conflicts.

Obama was too young at the time so he didn't face those same issues.

YOU chose not to serve as well.

Gee wasn't former President Clinton the one dodged the Active Draft by pulling strings with military and political family friends?

Can't imagine you would have called him out on it because he has the magical "D" after his name  ;D

Snopes shows how he dodged and pulled strings - yet his friends kept it all legal.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/felon.asp (http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/felon.asp)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on October 02, 2012, 10:30:18 AM
First attack since Pearl Harbor?

Do you forget that the towers were attacked when Bill Clinton was in office?  Do you forget the USS Cole being attacked? 

Remember how Janet Reno treated all these attacks like a law enforcement issue?

You don't want to do anything about Iran - yet you fault Bush for 9/11.  OR - did Bush stage 9/11?  I bet you are one of those 9/11 truthers who think it was all a pre-text to invade Iraq.

LOL!


Please note I said on US soil so the Cole does not count.  I did forget about the minor incident that happened without warning under Clintons watch, but Bush KNEW in advance there was in imminent attack coming and did nothing to stop it.  No I'm not a 9/11 truther, but I do believe what released documents tell me.

http://www.salon.com/2012/09/11/911_what_bush_knew/ (http://www.salon.com/2012/09/11/911_what_bush_knew/)

Quote
In a New York Times Op-Ed, Kurt Eichenwald offers new evidence on this front. Throughout the spring and summer of 2001, Eichenwald claims the CIA presented the administration with compelling evidence that al-Qaida operatives were in the United States, that they were planning a major terrorist attack intended to produce mass casualties, and that this attack was imminent. In response, the Bush administration did nothing.

Indeed, the administration’s level of inaction was so negligent that senior intelligence officials actually considered resigning, so as not to be in a position of responsibility when the attack took place:

 
Officials at the Counterterrorism Center of the C.I.A. grew apoplectic. On July 9, at a meeting of the counterterrorism group, one official suggested that the staff put in for a transfer so that somebody else would be responsible when the attack took place, two people who were there told me in interviews. The suggestion was batted down, they said, because there would be no time to train anyone else.
 
For a long time, the administration successfully covered up this series of events, by employing the clever strategy of revealing a small and ultimately misleading part of the truth: In April 2004, it declassified a single daily briefing, that featured the startling headline “Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.,” but on closer examination did not contain much in the way of specifics regarding the attack, which took place just 35 days after the memo’s printing.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on October 02, 2012, 10:34:56 AM
Gee wasn't former President Clinton the one dodged the Active Draft by pulling strings with military and political family friends?

Can't imagine you would have called him out on it because he has the magical "D" after his name  ;D

Snopes shows how he dodged and pulled strings - yet his friends kept it all legal.
[url]http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/felon.asp[/url] ([url]http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/felon.asp[/url])


I read the article and it sounds to me you're exaggerating a bit.  He recieved multiple student deferrments and failed physicals due to hearing and not being strong enough.  I don't really count that as dodging the draft.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: marilyn.monroe on October 02, 2012, 10:35:43 AM
Pretext to invade Iraq?! How about a prelude to the death of Constitutional rights?
What about the Oklahoma City bombings?
Tactical strikes may be better option than full-scale war in some cases. There is something to be learned from Clinton/Reno.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monroe Native on October 02, 2012, 10:39:12 AM
Pretext to invade Iraq?! How about a prelude to the death of Constitutional rights?
What about the Oklahoma City bombings?
Tactical strikes may be better option than full-scale war in some cases. There is something to be learned from Clinton/Reno.

Yes.  It was Clinton that perfected the launching 200 million dollars worth of cruise missiles to distract the press from his latest BJ.

Certainly an example to be followed.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on October 02, 2012, 10:48:33 AM
Really?   You care that Clinton got a little fellatio?  I love that conservatives keep bringing that up....
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monroe Native on October 02, 2012, 10:51:58 AM
Really?   You care that Clinton got a little fellatio?  I love that conservatives keep bringing that up....

I don't care if Bill got a BJ from an intern morning, noon, and night.

If I was Bill and married to Hillary I would go for it also.

Just say I am an adult, and I like blow jobs.  No problem for me.

Wasting 200 million in cruise missiles every time you got caught getting a blow job - that I had a problem with.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Professor H on October 02, 2012, 10:56:07 AM
Speaking of exaggerating on a point or topic:
An Op-ed article?   C'mon... where are those facts that told when/where the attacks were coming?
Oh wait they didn't really have anything other than "chatter" telling them activities were ongoing or heating up.   

About that "big source"...   salon.com

Responding to the question, "How far do you go with the tabloid sensibility to get readers?", former Salon.com editor-in-chief David Talbot said:
Is Salon more tabloid-like? Yeah, we've made no secret of that. I've said all along that our formula here is that we're a smart tabloid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salon_(website) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salon_(website))
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on October 02, 2012, 10:59:00 AM
Hmmmm i didn't hear about that.


Prof I'll find the NYT article then for you. 
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Professor H on October 02, 2012, 11:07:46 AM
I read the article and it sounds to me you're exaggerating a bit.  He recieved multiple student deferrments and failed physicals due to hearing and not being strong enough.  I don't really count that as dodging the draft.
You are skimming - and only found the part on his trying to get into officer training, as he was too connected to be a grunt in the army.

I generally thought Snopes was a reliable source for fact checking - you have evidence that they aren't?
Here's the part you didn't get to...
"That Bill Clinton went to great lengths to avoid the Vietnam-era draft, that he used political connections to obtain special favors, and that he made promises and commitments which he later failed to honor, are all beyond dispute."
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on October 02, 2012, 11:09:44 AM
You are skimming - and only found the part on his trying to get into officer training, as he was too connected to be a grunt in the army.

I generally thought Snopes was a reliable source for fact checking - you have evidence that they aren't?
Here's the part you didn't get to...
"That Bill Clinton went to great lengths to avoid the Vietnam-era draft, that he used political connections to obtain special favors, and that he made promises and commitments which he later failed to honor, are all beyond dispute."


I agree with snopes, and if he did he did.  I have no problem with draft dodgers and I think they should be recognized as heros for avoiding an unjust military occupation.

Now here's the article from the NYT for you.


Quote
IT was perhaps the most famous presidential briefing in history.





Javier Jaén Benavides
 



Related
 
Times Topic: Sept. 11, 2001

 

Related in Opinion
 
News Analysis: How Resilient Is Post-9/11 America? (September 9, 2012)






Connect With Us on Twitter

For Op-Ed, follow @nytopinion and to hear from the editorial page editor, Andrew Rosenthal, follow @andyrNYT.
 .

Readers’ Comments


Readers shared their thoughts on this article.
Read All Comments (913) »
 

On Aug. 6, 2001, President George W. Bush received a classified review of the threats posed by Osama bin Laden and his terrorist network, Al Qaeda. That morning’s “presidential daily brief” — the top-secret document prepared by America’s intelligence agencies — featured the now-infamous heading: “Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.” A few weeks later, on 9/11, Al Qaeda accomplished that goal.


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/11/opinion/the-bush-white-house-was-deaf-to-9-11-warnings.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/11/opinion/the-bush-white-house-was-deaf-to-9-11-warnings.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Frenchfry on October 02, 2012, 11:13:14 AM
You are skimming - and only found the part on his trying to get into officer training, as he was too connected to be a grunt in the army.

I generally thought Snopes was a reliable source for fact checking - you have evidence that they aren't?
Here's the part you didn't get to...
"That Bill Clinton went to great lengths to avoid the Vietnam-era draft, that he used political connections to obtain special favors, and that he made promises and commitments which he later failed to honor, are all beyond dispute."
Too bad for you that Clinton isn't running for President...otherwise it would be relevant...but it's not.

As they say...a swing and a miss.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Professor H on October 02, 2012, 11:17:38 AM
Too bad for you that Clinton isn't running for President...otherwise it would be relevant...but it's not.

As they say...a swing and a miss.
Point is that the Public has decided that you no longer need to have Military Service to be President
And your claims that Romney dodged the draft will meet the same public that voted in Clinton...

I'm sure that went over your head...
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: marilyn.monroe on October 02, 2012, 11:20:56 AM
I care Bill Clinton did what he did!

One would think the head of the military should have some military experience.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Professor H on October 02, 2012, 11:24:19 AM
I agree with snopes, and if he did he did.  I have no problem with draft dodgers and I think they should be recognized as heros for avoiding an unjust military occupation.

Now here's the article from the NYT for you.


[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/11/opinion/the-bush-white-house-was-deaf-to-9-11-warnings.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0[/url] ([url]http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/11/opinion/the-bush-white-house-was-deaf-to-9-11-warnings.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0[/url])

What was the Whitehouse supposed to do with the data that the CIA didn't know what to do with?
You claim is stretching a claim to a fact not-yet proven.   

You can claim you know someone is going to get into a car accident today on I-75.
So what are the police going to do about it?

You likely need names, locations and even a date.   We didn't have the capabilities as our CIA and FBI resources had been diminished under previous years - for whatever reasons (another political discussion on Clintons cuts)...

You may not like the new sharing of resources and technology to spy on the bad guys and potential terrorist -but they seem to be more effective in this day and age of terror against innocents.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Professor H on October 02, 2012, 11:26:24 AM
I care Bill Clinton did what he did!

One would think the head of the military should have some military experience.
Are Governors the head of the National Guard?
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Frenchfry on October 02, 2012, 11:36:15 AM
Point is that the Public has decided that you no longer need to have Military Service to be President
And your claims that Romney dodged the draft will meet the same public that voted in Clinton...

I'm sure that went over your head...
I wouldn't say military service is a prerequisite...but there are lots of people that would frown upon those that purposely dodge doing their duty....and understandably those frowns often turn into outright disdain when talking about a dodger that advocates for war.

Guys like you and MN never served..and probably have "R" tattoos...so advocating for war...and Romney must come easy for you two since it's obvious you guys are the least informed on the forum.

Can't wait for you guys to whine about the deficits again.  8*
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monroe Native on October 02, 2012, 01:15:25 PM
I wouldn't say military service is a prerequisite...but there are lots of people that would frown upon those that purposely dodge doing their duty....and understandably those frowns often turn into outright disdain when talking about a dodger that advocates for war.

Guys like you and MN never served..and probably have "R" tattoos...so advocating for war...and Romney must come easy for you two since it's obvious you guys are the least informed on the forum.

Can't wait for you guys to whine about the deficits again.  8*

LOL.

Yep.  You got me figured out.  I want to kill, kill, kill and those people with skin that is different colors then mine.

Cut all those social programs and throw the crack babies out on the streets.

That way we can make war AND cut the deficit at the same time.  Anyone who needs a job can just go to war.

Give me a break leftist.

The next war is going to happen because of Obama's stupidity and timidity, and then you will blame Romney for getting us into it. 

Now get back to searching for MSNBC videos.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Professor H on October 02, 2012, 02:05:56 PM
(http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/mrz100112APR-A20121001094516.jpg)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on October 02, 2012, 02:16:20 PM
LOL.

Yep.  You got me figured out.  I want to kill, kill, kill and those people with skin that is different colors then mine.

Cut all those social programs and throw the crack babies out on the streets.

That way we can make war AND cut the deficit at the same time.  Anyone who needs a job can just go to war.

Give me a break leftist.

The next war is going to happen because of Obama's stupidity and timidity, and then you will blame Romney for getting us into it. 

Now get back to searching for MSNBC videos.

No, Obama is trying to be diplomatic about it.  Maybe they did the smart thing and got a cultural anthropologist on this thing.  Instead of jumping to conclusions we have someone with a cooler head trying to get stuff done properly.

I can't believe that conservatives are turning a blatant Romney gaffe into a positive.  You do know most of the public understands that Obama did the correct thing with the Libya incident?  Fort Hood....well that was domestic terrorism, and domestic terrorism is difficult to predict.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Professor H on October 02, 2012, 02:34:16 PM
No, Obama is trying to be diplomatic about it.  Maybe they did the smart thing and got a cultural anthropologist on this thing.  Instead of jumping to conclusions we have someone with a cooler head trying to get stuff done properly.

I can't believe that conservatives are turning a blatant Romney gaffe into a positive.  You do know most of the public understands that Obama did the correct thing with the Libya incident?  Fort Hood....well that was domestic terrorism, and domestic terrorism is difficult to predict.

So what are they doing with all that diplomatic waiting?   
FBI won't even go in to investigate so I guess the ouiji board or cultural expert will tell us what really happened? 

Odd how you can pass off domestic terrorist acts as not able to be prevented, but foreign terrorist acts you say we can?
Are you saying that we don't spy enough on those inside our borders to prevent terrorism -
Never would have thought you'd take that tact... 

Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on October 02, 2012, 02:45:25 PM
So what are they doing with all that diplomatic waiting?   
FBI won't even go in to investigate so I guess the ouiji board or cultural expert will tell us what really happened?

What is the FBI going to investigate?  It was a terrorist attack that was pre planned.  The Libyan government has made multiple arrests.  It seems to me that this is done and over with. 

[qutoe]Odd how you can pass off domestic terrorist acts as not able to be prevented, but foreign terrorist acts you say we can? [/quote]

We can because the Bush administration had a ton of information about an up coming attack but failed to investigate it further.  If I had that information I would be putting all my resources into preventing it instead of chasing ghost weapons of mass destruction just because someone threatened my daddy.


Quote
Are you saying that we don't spy enough on those inside our borders to prevent terrorism -
Never would have thought you'd take that tact...

Actually I like how the British system of national security is set up.  There is a ton of CCTV which helps law enforcement a ton.  I also believe that certain websites should be flagged and if you visit those websites the government should not need a warrant to tap your phone.  This goes for everything from the neo-nazi websites to environmental terrorists.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: old salt on October 02, 2012, 02:46:07 PM
Cool head?  Diplomatic?  hahahahah   How bout lyin sob?

Even CNN is concluding there was a coverup.  And there were 2 other attacks within the last 6 months.  Mainstream Media coverage?  crickets.

CNN hits hard on Libya: The only conclusion is that the White House tried to cover something up

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/10/01/cnn-hits-hard-on-libya-the-only-conclusion-is-that-the-white-house-tried-to-cover-something-up/ (http://hotair.com/archives/2012/10/01/cnn-hits-hard-on-libya-the-only-conclusion-is-that-the-white-house-tried-to-cover-something-up/)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on October 02, 2012, 02:53:54 PM
Cool head?  Diplomatic?  hahahahah   How bout lyin sob?

Even CNN is concluding there was a coverup.  And there were 2 other attacks within the last 6 months.  Mainstream Media coverage?  crickets.

CNN hits hard on Libya: The only conclusion is that the White House tried to cover something up

[url]http://hotair.com/archives/2012/10/01/cnn-hits-hard-on-libya-the-only-conclusion-is-that-the-white-house-tried-to-cover-something-up/[/url] ([url]http://hotair.com/archives/2012/10/01/cnn-hits-hard-on-libya-the-only-conclusion-is-that-the-white-house-tried-to-cover-something-up/[/url])


That's not what I read here, but I am willing to concede that there is more to this story than most are letting on.  Regardless, Obama has pledge to bring these people to justice and I trust his record on this.


http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/09/some-administration-officials-were-concerned-about-initial-white-house-push-blaming-benghazi-attack-on-mob-video/ (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/09/some-administration-officials-were-concerned-about-initial-white-house-push-blaming-benghazi-attack-on-mob-video/)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monroe Native on October 02, 2012, 03:46:05 PM
What is the FBI going to investigate?  It was a terrorist attack that was pre planned.  The Libyan government has made multiple arrests.  It seems to me that this is done and over with. 

SO we are back to the Clinton / Reno this is simply a law enforcement issue strategy.

How did that work out again?

Also - why can't you OPEN your eyes and see that the terrorist problem is a MUSLIM problem - and that it is more then just a few radicals on a JIHAD. 

The attack at Fort Hood was just one Muslim terrorist attacking his fellow soldiers.  In Afghanistan our allies are attacking us systematically - each and every one following the Jihad that their Mullahs and the Koran teach them to do.

This isn't a fluke.  It isn't a few crazies.  It is true believers systematically attacking the infidel.  I would have thought that would have been clear after 11 years.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: old salt on October 02, 2012, 04:13:13 PM
That's not what I read here, but I am willing to concede that there is more to this story than most are letting on.  Regardless, Obama has pledge to bring these people to justice and I trust his record on this.


[url]http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/09/some-administration-officials-were-concerned-about-initial-white-house-push-blaming-benghazi-attack-on-mob-video/[/url] ([url]http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/09/some-administration-officials-were-concerned-about-initial-white-house-push-blaming-benghazi-attack-on-mob-video/[/url])


Not to worry.  Case closed...at least till after the elections.  NO ONE will push this any further.

See here for more details.
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2012/10/02/whoa_obama_administration_denied_repeated_requests_for_increased_security_in_benghazi (http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2012/10/02/whoa_obama_administration_denied_repeated_requests_for_increased_security_in_benghazi)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: old salt on October 02, 2012, 04:27:17 PM
Oh well. So it goes.  One more thing to add to the list of corruption within the WH and the media.

Here are the other 4 that the press won't talk about, for fear of Teh won:

Fast and Furious
Kathleen Sebelius breaks federal law, keeps her job.
Obama administration leaks sensitive national security information for political purposes.
Obama administration tells defense contractors to violate federal law. Bonus: Obama administration says it will use taxpayer dollars to pay any government fines incurred.

The last one should have everyone up in arms.  Were he an R,  it would be nonstop in the news.

Chicago thug politics at its finest.

Here's the link:
 
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/10/02/a-guide-to-the-obama-administrations-five-major-scandals-for-mainstream-media-dummies/?singlepage=true (http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/10/02/a-guide-to-the-obama-administrations-five-major-scandals-for-mainstream-media-dummies/?singlepage=true)

And the money quote:
"So there you go. Five big scandals to chew on, any one of which have the potential to bring down a president. A couple of them are easily bigger and juicier than Watergate. A couple even have body counts. A couple could be linked together to show a pattern of lawless behavior."

(http://legalinsurrection.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Sign-Glenview-IL.jpg)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: livewire on October 03, 2012, 07:15:47 AM
Yeah, and let's not forget those 1.2 trillion dollar deficits.   ;)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on October 03, 2012, 07:21:36 AM
Actually live if you look at the hard numbers both bushes and Regan had higher deficits than Obama.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monroe Native on October 03, 2012, 07:34:20 AM
Actually live if you look at the hard numbers both bushes and Regan had higher deficits than Obama.

How is that?  After you figure out how much Obama has devalued our currency?  Gee - I am not sure THAT is a selling point.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: livewire on October 03, 2012, 07:52:06 AM
Actually live if you look at the hard numbers both bushes and Regan had higher deficits than Obama.

LMAO!

Ok, if you say so.   8*


Reagan's total deficit was approximately 2.6 trillion dollars over 8 YEARS.

George H. W. Bush, approximately 1.5 trillion dollars over 4 years.

George W. Bush, approximately 5 trillion dollars over 8 YEARS.


Obama's total deficit was approximately 6 trillion dollars over only 4 years.


And for the first time in history, thanks to Obama, the national debt has exceeded 100% of the GDP.

So, uh, what skoool did yew go too?
 
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on October 03, 2012, 07:58:58 AM
LMAO!

Ok, if you say so.   8*


Reagan's total deficit was approximately 2.6 trillion dollars over 8 YEARS.

George H. W. Bush, approximately 1.5 trillion dollars over 4 years.

George W. Bush, approximately 5 trillion dollars over 8 YEARS.


Obama's total deficit was approximately 6 trillion dollars over only 4 years.


And for the first time in history, thanks to Obama, the national debt has exceeded 100% of the GDP.

So, uh, what skoool did yew go too?


Live you forget that W. started with a surplus.  I'll find the graphic I saw to show you that with the dollar adjusted both bushes and regan spent more money.


Here's a good article about Bush vs Obama spending.

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/06/obamas-spending-inferno-or-not/ (http://www.factcheck.org/2012/06/obamas-spending-inferno-or-not/)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: livewire on October 03, 2012, 08:14:33 AM
Live you forget that W. started with a surplus.

No, I did not forget that. 

The fact that W. started with a 110 billion dollar surplus has nothing to do with his (or Obama's) spending.  110 billion dollars is nothing.  Obama spends that in a week.

We are talking TRILLIONS here, not billions.

Don't get me wrong - I think we should have a BALANCED budget, and ALL of these presidents failed to have it.  But, at least the Bushes and Reagan HAD a budget.

My numbers are accurate, whether you like it or not.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on October 03, 2012, 08:21:47 AM
Fry, Lilly, Duck, would one of you folks take this?  I'm actually busy at work today.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: marilyn.monroe on October 03, 2012, 08:30:14 AM
Congress rubber stamps it all, give them some credit.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: livewire on October 03, 2012, 09:12:18 AM
Fry, Lilly, Duck, would one of you folks take this?  I'm actually busy at work today.

That's ok, I'm working too, and will be driving to Archbold today.

Besides, this is off topic.  I just threw in my comment about the deficits because of Fry's prompt:

Can't wait for you guys to whine about the deficits again.  8*


But I am right.   ;)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Baggins on October 03, 2012, 09:32:50 AM
Actually live if you look at the hard numbers both bushes and Regan had higher deficits than Obama.



And their answer to you is...
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh171/Rowengartner/gollum.jpg)


No, I did not forget that. 

The fact that W. started with a 110 billion dollar surplus has nothing to do with his (or Obama's) spending.  110 billion dollars is nothing.  Obama spends that in a week.

We are talking TRILLIONS here, not billions.

Don't get me wrong - I think we should have a BALANCED budget, and ALL of these presidents failed to have it.  But, at least the Bushes and Reagan HAD a budget.

My numbers are accurate, whether you like it or not.


No live, it does matter, in fact it's a paramount issue!  That bad spending that started with Bush has become entrenched and lead us to this downward spiral we're on...And, NO, it's not Obama spending that money, it's CONGRESS, the checks are signed and handed out with their say...Our government as a whole is responsible for the bad spending, but you wont concede to that fact because you and many others need Obama to be the clear cut bad guy in all this...!
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Professor H on October 03, 2012, 09:37:50 AM
Back on the Topic  ;D
 a re-cap:
FBI still unable to investigate the physical site- even though CNN and the other media and passerby's have all been wandering through the compound

CNN finds evidence that the Ambassador was worried about the threats of attacks - yet the State Department denied the request for extra security.   (never mind that CNN still called it a uprising from the movie even on the 23 of last month...  8* )

The compound had been attacked twice with bombs - one putting a hole in the outer wall - but that's not worthy of extra security???


Nope - no cover up here...  just incompetence then I guess  8*





---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oct 1, 2012
WASHINGTON - The Obama administration has withdrawn all official government personnel from Benghazi, the Libyan city where the country's revolution was born and where the U.S. ambassador was killed last month.

The State Department said Monday that it has pulled its personnel from Benghazi and that any diplomatic outreach to Libya's second-largest city is being done remotely. The compound where Ambassador Christopher Stevens and three others died in an attack by militants was closed.

State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said she knew of no other U.S. government employees in the city.

The pullout was described as a temporary precaution following what the administration is now calling a terrorist attack on two U.S. government compounds. Nonessential U.S. personnel also have been evacuated from the embassy in Tripoli, though it remains open.

Benghazi was the seat of rebel power during the uprising that eventually toppled strongman Moammar Gadhafi with the help of U.S., NATO and other military forces.

The main compound used by the American diplomats was unguarded Monday, although the gate was locked. In the first days after the attack, looters, curiosity-seekers and journalists roamed freely through the burned-out buildings.

The FBI has been unable to set up operations in Benghazi as part of the investigation into the deaths of Stevens, information manager Sean Smith and government contractors Glen Doherty and Tyrone Woods. The absence complicates efforts to gather evidence and interview witnesses.

http://www.startribune.com/world/172215811.html (http://www.startribune.com/world/172215811.html)

Sept. 23, 2012
(CNN) -- Three days after he was killed, CNN found a journal belonging to late U.S. Ambassador to Libya Chris Stevens. The journal was found on the floor of the largely unsecured consulate compound where he was fatally wounded.
CNN notified Stevens' family about the journal within hours after it was discovered and at the family's request provided it to them via a third party.
The journal consists of just seven pages of handwriting in a hard-bound book.
CORRECTION
An earlier version of this article incorrectly stated when CNN found the journal belonging to late Ambassador to Libya Chris Stevens. The journal was found three days after the fatal attack on the Benghazi consulate.
For CNN, the ambassador's writings served as tips about the situation in Libya, and in Benghazi in particular. CNN took the newsworthy tips and corroborated them with other sources.
A source familiar with Stevens' thinking told CNN earlier this week that, in the months leading up to his death, the late ambassador worried about what he called the security threats in Benghazi and a rise in Islamic extremism.

Stevens died on September 11, along with three other Americans, when the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi came under attack amid a large protest about a U.S.-made film that mocked the Muslim Prophet Mohammed.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/22/world/africa/libya-ambassador-journal/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/22/world/africa/libya-ambassador-journal/index.html)

10/3/12
Republican veteran Senator John McCain has heaped scorn on the initial US administration assessment.
"A first year cadet at West Point will tell you that that kind of attack is not a spontaneous demonstration. Here, darling, let's go to a demonstration, bring the mortars," he said sarcastically on CNN on Sunday.
"We have to know whether measures could have been taken and there is already evidence... forthcoming, including Chris' diary that there were threats and... we need to investigate that aspect," he added.
A US official, who asked not to be named said, the US government's probe was "looking at extremist groups in the Benghazi area as well as AQIM" or Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb.
But with an FBI team stuck in Tripoli and yet to access the ruined compound, there were concerns that the crime scene may have been compromised.
The entrances to the mission were closed Tuesday, with two Libyan security cars posted outside the main gate.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hah0jYsb03r6MF44XZoui9UAdF4w?docId=CNG.49d6dafcfec01430958ea1e9c9a64ea2.351 (http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hah0jYsb03r6MF44XZoui9UAdF4w?docId=CNG.49d6dafcfec01430958ea1e9c9a64ea2.351)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Professor H on October 04, 2012, 02:06:47 PM
A little late - but at least they are making the effort now...

Security source says U.S. agents now collecting evidence

* FBI has no immediate comment

BENGHAZI, Libya, Oct 4 (Reuters) - A team of U.S. investigators travelled to the eastern Libyan city of Benghazi on Thursday to visit the compound where the U.S. ambassador was killed in an attack last month, Libyan security sources said.

FBI agents were dispatched to Libya after the Sept. 11 assault on the U.S. diplomatic mission and on another facility in which Ambassador Christopher Stevens and three other Americans were killed.

But, until now, the agents have remained in Tripoli.

"An American team has been visiting the compound," one Libyan security source said. Another security source said: "They have been assessing the damage, collecting evidence."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/04/libya-attack-us-idUSL6E8L4K3Q20121004?type=marketsNews (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/04/libya-attack-us-idUSL6E8L4K3Q20121004?type=marketsNews)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monroe Native on October 04, 2012, 04:47:32 PM
A little late - but at least they are making the effort now...

Security source says U.S. agents now collecting evidence

* FBI has no immediate comment

BENGHAZI, Libya, Oct 4 (Reuters) - A team of U.S. investigators travelled to the eastern Libyan city of Benghazi on Thursday to visit the compound where the U.S. ambassador was killed in an attack last month, Libyan security sources said.

FBI agents were dispatched to Libya after the Sept. 11 assault on the U.S. diplomatic mission and on another facility in which Ambassador Christopher Stevens and three other Americans were killed.

But, until now, the agents have remained in Tripoli.

"An American team has been visiting the compound," one Libyan security source said. Another security source said: "They have been assessing the damage, collecting evidence."
[url]http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/04/libya-attack-us-idUSL6E8L4K3Q20121004?type=marketsNews[/url] ([url]http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/04/libya-attack-us-idUSL6E8L4K3Q20121004?type=marketsNews[/url])


I hope they have their guns and bullets on them....  stay safe.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: marilyn.monroe on October 04, 2012, 05:40:45 PM
The crime scene has been compromised. I read today there are unsecured confidential records.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: excelsior on October 05, 2012, 03:37:51 PM
Looks like the cavalry has arrived.   I bet those horses that they must have rode there are tired.


FBI Team Reaches Libya Attack Site

more at:  http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443768804578036932318029690.html (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443768804578036932318029690.html)

BY ADAM ENTOUS

WASHINGTON—Federal Bureau of Investigation agents visited the burned-out U.S. Consulate in Benghazi for the first time on Thursday, more than three weeks after Ambassador to Libya Christopher Stevens and three other Americans were killed in an attack there on Sept. 11.

The agents collected evidence for about 12 hours with protection from U.S. military personnel and perimeter security from Libyan personnel, then left the city because of security concerns, officials said; the visit was kept secret to avoid any strike by militants while agents were there.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Frenchfry on October 05, 2012, 08:46:54 PM
Looks like the cavalry has arrived.   I bet those horses that they must have rode there are tired.


FBI Team Reaches Libya Attack Site

more at:  [url]http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443768804578036932318029690.html[/url] ([url]http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443768804578036932318029690.html[/url])

BY ADAM ENTOUS

WASHINGTON—Federal Bureau of Investigation agents visited the burned-out U.S. Consulate in Benghazi for the first time on Thursday, more than three weeks after Ambassador to Libya Christopher Stevens and three other Americans were killed in an attack there on Sept. 11.

The agents collected evidence for about 12 hours with protection from U.S. military personnel and perimeter security from Libyan personnel, then left the city because of security concerns, officials said; the visit was kept secret to avoid any strike by militants while agents were there.
Ships, Seals, and the CIA were sent in immediately after incident so quit acting as though the response has been lax. I guess misinformation is all you righties have. Once a liar always a liar.

Obama vows to track down ambassador's killers
Wed Sep 12, 2012
(Reuters) - President Barack Obama branded the killing of the U.S. ambassador to Libya and three other Americans an "outrageous attack" on Wednesday and vowed to track down the perpetrators, while ordering a tightening of diplomatic security worldwide.

U.S. government officials said the Benghazi attack may have been planned in advance and there were indications that members of a militant faction calling itself Ansar al Sharia - which translates as Supporters of Islamic Law - may have been involved.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/12/us-libya-usa-attack-idUSBRE88B0EI20120912 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/12/us-libya-usa-attack-idUSBRE88B0EI20120912)

Hmmm...Sept 12...looks like it wiped out another lie the right has been parroting.

But maybe you'll only believe Fox News:

Two Navy guided missile destroyers are being deployed off the coast of Libya, after attacks Tuesday on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi left four Americans dead, including the U.S. ambassador, military officials told Fox News.

The destroyers are for "contingency purposes," a military official said.

In addition, officials said a "fast team" of 50 Marines was being sent from the U.S. Naval base in Rota, Spain. They are expected to go to Tripoli. According to a U.S. official, there are no U.S. personnel left at the consulate in Benghazi which was attacked.

A U.S. military aircraft is also expected to leave Libya soon with the dead and wounded onboard.

The move comes after President Obama ordered "all necessary resources" provided to Libya to support the security of U.S. personnel in the country.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/09/12/marine-unit-dispatched-to-secure-consulate-in-benghazi-after-deadly-attacks/ (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/09/12/marine-unit-dispatched-to-secure-consulate-in-benghazi-after-deadly-attacks/)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(CNN) -- The United States moved to increase embassy security around the world after the attack that killed the U.S. ambassador to Libya and three staffers.

"I have directed my administration to provide all necessary resources to support the security of our personnel in Libya, and to increase security at our diplomatic posts around the globe," President Barack Obama said in a statement issued Wednesday morning in response to the attack.

The United States deployed a group of Marines called a Fleet Antiterrorism Security Team to Libya to help secure U.S. facilities, two U.S. officials said Wednesday. Such units are specially trained to retake or guard diplomatic installations and other U.S. facilities in troubled regions.

About 50 Marines were headed to Tripoli and could deploy elsewhere in Libya after their arrival, U.S. officials said.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/12/world/africa/libya-us-ambassador-killed-fallout/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/12/world/africa/libya-us-ambassador-killed-fallout/index.html)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Libyan authorities have arrested four in connection with the attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi.
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-09-13/news/33823216_1_terror-attack-anti-islam-film-world-trade-center (http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-09-13/news/33823216_1_terror-attack-anti-islam-film-world-trade-center)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Two sent American ships
Sept 16
On Wednesday, the Pentagon has sent two of its warships in the direction of the Libyan coast. About 50 members of the U.S. Navy were also dispatched there to strengthen the security of the Embassy of the United States in Tripoli, according to a source in the American Government.
http://www.nixguy.com/libya-washington-studied-terrorist-track-and-sent-two-ships-in-the-direction-of-the-coast.html (http://www.nixguy.com/libya-washington-studied-terrorist-track-and-sent-two-ships-in-the-direction-of-the-coast.html)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The US is laying the groundwork for operations to kill or capture militants implicated in the deadly attack on a diplomatic mission in Libya, senior military and counter-terrorism officials said Tuesday, as the weak Libyan government appears unable to arrest or even question fighters involved in the assault.

The top-secret Joint Special Operations Command is compiling so-called target packages of detailed information about the suspects, the officials said. Working with the Pentagon and the CIA, the command is preparing the dossiers as the first step in anticipation of possible orders from President Obama to take action against those determined to have played a role in the attack on a diplomatic mission in the eastern city of Benghazi that killed Ambassador J Christopher Stevens and three colleagues
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/us-tracking-killers-in-attack-on-libya-diplomatic-mission/1011559/ (http://www.indianexpress.com/news/us-tracking-killers-in-attack-on-libya-diplomatic-mission/1011559/)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And look what your moron candidate did:

How badly did Romney botch response to Libya attack?

(CBS News) The conventional wisdom emerged in Washington almost immediately on Wednesday: Mitt Romney's handling of the violence in Egypt and Libya was a disaster.

"The comments were a big mistake, and the decision to double down on them was an even bigger mistake," Steve Schmidt, senior campaign strategist to Sen. John McCain's 2008 presidential campaign, told CBS News. "There are legitimate criticisms to be made but you foreclose on your ability to make them when you try to score easy political points. And the American people, when the country is attacked, whether they're a Republican or Democrat or independent, want to see leaders who have measured responses, not leaders whose first instinct is to try to score political points."
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57511707/how-badly-did-romney-botch-response-to-libya-attack/ (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57511707/how-badly-did-romney-botch-response-to-libya-attack/)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Professor H on October 05, 2012, 09:03:28 PM
You mean they eventually responded, not during the attack...  and some several days later.

The response of those "INVESTIGATING" has been very slow - and even CNN had access to the scene before they did, finding documents from the Ambassador and his Diary.

Spin it how you want -   which one of those CIA/Marines or Ships/helicopter started the investigation??   
Maybe you didn't know the FBI is supposed to  8*

Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Frenchfry on October 05, 2012, 09:32:39 PM
You mean they eventually responded, not during the attack...  and some several days later.

The response of those "INVESTIGATING" has been very slow - and even CNN had access to the scene before they did, finding documents from the Ambassador and his Diary.

Spin it how you want -   which one of those CIA/Marines or Ships/helicopter started the investigation??   
Maybe you didn't know the FBI is supposed to  8*
Other than you....the only thing slow is this site.

Your assertion is akin to sending firefighters into a burning building that contains armed arsonists.  8*
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: excelsior on October 05, 2012, 09:40:46 PM


Hmmm...Sept 12...looks like it wiped out another lie the right has been parroting.

But maybe you'll only believe Fox News:

Two Navy guided missile destroyers are being deployed off the coast of Libya, after attacks Tuesday on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi left four Americans dead, including the U.S. ambassador, military officials told Fox News.

The destroyers are for "contingency purposes," a military official said.

In addition, officials said a "fast team" of 50 Marines was being sent from the U.S. Naval base in Rota, Spain. They are expected to go to Tripoli. According to a U.S. official, there are no U.S. personnel left at the consulate in Benghazi which was attacked.

A U.S. military aircraft is also expected to leave Libya soon with the dead and wounded onboard.

The move comes after President Obama ordered "all necessary resources" provided to Libya to support the security of U.S. personnel in the country.
[url]http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/09/12/marine-unit-dispatched-to-secure-consulate-in-benghazi-after-deadly-attacks/[/url] ([url]http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/09/12/marine-unit-dispatched-to-secure-consulate-in-benghazi-after-deadly-attacks/[/url])



How does a couple of ships sitting off the coast and deploying troops a 1000 km away secure the crime scene?  The embassy was in Benghazi and not Tripoli.  Please allow me to assist you.

http://goo.gl/maps/SuTvA (http://goo.gl/maps/SuTvA)

Reports have coming out for weeks that folks are wandering around the embassy.

Recent story

Sensitive documents left behind at U.S. diplomatic post in Libya
more at: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/sensitive-documents-left-behind-at-american-mission-in-libya/2012/10/03/11911498-0d7e-11e2-bd1a-b868e65d57eb_story.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/sensitive-documents-left-behind-at-american-mission-in-libya/2012/10/03/11911498-0d7e-11e2-bd1a-b868e65d57eb_story.html)

BENGHAZI, Libya — More than three weeks after attacks in this city killed the U.S. ambassador to Libya and three other Americans, sensitive documents remained only loosely secured in the wreckage of the U.S. mission on Wednesday, offering visitors easy access to delicate information about American operations in Libya.

Documents detailing weapons collection efforts, emergency evacuation protocols, the full internal itinerary of Ambassador J. Christopher Stevens’s trip and the personnel records of Libyans who were contracted to secure the mission were among the items scattered across the floors of the looted compound when a Washington Post reporter and an interpreter visited Wednesday.

The discovery further complicates efforts by the Obama administration to respond to what has rapidly become a major foreign-policy issue just weeks before the election. Republicans have accused Obama of having left U.S. diplomatic compounds in Muslim-majority nations insufficiently protected on the anniversary of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks and have questioned the security preparations ahead of assaults on embassies in Egypt, Yemen, Tunisia and Sudan. Capitol Hill critics have also pressed for an explanation for the slow pace of the investigation that has followed the attack in Benghazi.

___________________________________________

A few days after the attack.

CNN finds, returns journal belonging to late U.S. ambassador
more at: http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/22/world/africa/libya-ambassador-journal/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/22/world/africa/libya-ambassador-journal/index.html)

(CNN) -- Three days after he was killed, CNN found a journal belonging to late U.S. Ambassador to Libya Chris Stevens. The journal was found on the floor of the largely unsecured consulate compound where he was fatally wounded.

CNN notified Stevens' family about the journal within hours after it was discovered and at the family's request provided it to them via a third party.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Frenchfry on October 05, 2012, 09:58:37 PM
How does a couple of ships sitting off the coast and deploying troops a 1000 km away secure the crime scene?  The embassy was in Benghazi and not Tripoli.  Please allow me to assist you.

[url]http://goo.gl/maps/SuTvA[/url] ([url]http://goo.gl/maps/SuTvA[/url])

Reports have coming out for weeks that folks are wandering around the embassy.

Recent story

Sensitive documents left behind at U.S. diplomatic post in Libya
more at: [url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/sensitive-documents-left-behind-at-american-mission-in-libya/2012/10/03/11911498-0d7e-11e2-bd1a-b868e65d57eb_story.html[/url] ([url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/sensitive-documents-left-behind-at-american-mission-in-libya/2012/10/03/11911498-0d7e-11e2-bd1a-b868e65d57eb_story.html[/url])

BENGHAZI, Libya — More than three weeks after attacks in this city killed the U.S. ambassador to Libya and three other Americans, sensitive documents remained only loosely secured in the wreckage of the U.S. mission on Wednesday, offering visitors easy access to delicate information about American operations in Libya.

Documents detailing weapons collection efforts, emergency evacuation protocols, the full internal itinerary of Ambassador J. Christopher Stevens’s trip and the personnel records of Libyans who were contracted to secure the mission were among the items scattered across the floors of the looted compound when a Washington Post reporter and an interpreter visited Wednesday.

The discovery further complicates efforts by the Obama administration to respond to what has rapidly become a major foreign-policy issue just weeks before the election. Republicans have accused Obama of having left U.S. diplomatic compounds in Muslim-majority nations insufficiently protected on the anniversary of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks and have questioned the security preparations ahead of assaults on embassies in Egypt, Yemen, Tunisia and Sudan. Capitol Hill critics have also pressed for an explanation for the slow pace of the investigation that has followed the attack in Benghazi.

___________________________________________

A few days after the attack.

CNN finds, returns journal belonging to late U.S. ambassador
more at: [url]http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/22/world/africa/libya-ambassador-journal/index.html[/url] ([url]http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/22/world/africa/libya-ambassador-journal/index.html[/url])

(CNN) -- Three days after he was killed, CNN found a journal belonging to late U.S. Ambassador to Libya Chris Stevens. The journal was found on the floor of the largely unsecured consulate compound where he was fatally wounded.

CNN notified Stevens' family about the journal within hours after it was discovered and at the family's request provided it to them via a third party.
Nice...out of all the articles presented, you selected the most poorly written among them (from Fox News) to continue your anti-American campaign. But go ahead and portray the military as a bunch of inept lazy fools. It's guys like you, that never served in the military, that will never understand how traitorous your actions are.
Perhaps you'd enjoy telegraphing detailed plans to the enemy to complete your mission.  8*
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: excelsior on October 05, 2012, 10:15:26 PM
Nice...out of all the articles presented, you selected the most poorly written among them (from Fox News) to continue your anti-American campaign. But go ahead and portray the military as a bunch of inept lazy fools. It's guys like you, that never served in the military, that will never understand how traitorous your actions are.
Perhaps you'd enjoy telegraphing detailed plans to the enemy to complete your mission.  8*


You presented those articles as proof of something, but I am not sure what.   

I am still waiting for your evidence that the US was at the embassy and secured all sensitive documents before this week. 

These documents would not be floating around the embassy three weeks later if our commander-in-chief had taken action: 

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/documents/world/sensitive-documents-left-with-little-security-at-us-mission-in-benghazi/35/ (http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/documents/world/sensitive-documents-left-with-little-security-at-us-mission-in-benghazi/35/)

It makes one wonder what walked away.

Just to clarify, I have the utmost respect for those in service to our country.  What actions of mine do you deem traitorous?
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: livewire on October 05, 2012, 10:26:07 PM
Nice...out of all the articles presented, you selected the most poorly written among them (from Fox News) to continue your anti-American campaign. But go ahead and portray the military as a bunch of inept lazy fools. It's guys like you, that never served in the military, that will never understand how traitorous your actions are.
Perhaps you'd enjoy telegraphing detailed plans to the enemy to complete your mission.  8*

Why do you continually insist on pointing out that certain people were not in the military?  In the past few days you have done it with me, Professor H, and now Excelsior (maybe more, I don't know). I honor our brave service men and women, in ALL branches.  I saw nothing in Excelsior's post that was traitorous, and nothing that put down our military.  You don't have to have a military background to honor those who serve our country, so STOP degrading those who haven't been in the military!

I already know the answer to this, but did YOU serve?

In the military, I mean... not a prison term.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Frenchfry on October 05, 2012, 10:28:06 PM
You presented those articles as proof of something, but I am not sure what.   

I am still waiting for your evidence that the US was at the embassy and secured all sensitive documents before this week. 

These documents would not be floating around the embassy three weeks later if our commander-in-chief had taken action: 

[url]http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/documents/world/sensitive-documents-left-with-little-security-at-us-mission-in-benghazi/35/[/url] ([url]http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/documents/world/sensitive-documents-left-with-little-security-at-us-mission-in-benghazi/35/[/url])

It makes one wonder what walked away.

Just to clarify, I have the utmost respect for those in service to our country.  What actions of mine do you deem traitorous?
Duh...considering you've ignored the facts, even when presented directly to you, and then you've changed the narrative to continue your bash America nonsense....it's apparent you're a lost cause.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Frenchfry on October 05, 2012, 10:31:49 PM
Why do you continually insist on pointing out that certain people were not in the military?  In the past few days you have done it with me, Professor H, and now Excelsior (maybe more, I don't know). I honor our brave service men and women, in ALL branches.  I saw nothing in Excelsior's post that was traitorous, and nothing that put down our military.  You don't have to have a military background to honor those who serve our country, so STOP degrading those who haven't been in the military!

I already know the answer to this, but did YOU serve?

In the military, I mean... not a prison term.
You put on your cheerleading dress anytime your fellow righties need support so your butt-in-ski interjection is something I've come to expect from you.

Why would you ask a question you claim to know the answer to?
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: livewire on October 05, 2012, 10:38:23 PM
You put on your cheerleading dress anytime your fellow righties need support so I your butt-in-ski interjection is something I've come to expect from you.

Why would you ask a question you claim to know the answer to?

Answered a question with a question.

Typical lefty.

And what the hell does "...need support so I your butt-in-ski interjection..." mean?  8*

Put the bottle down, Frenchie, before you post any more.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Frenchfry on October 05, 2012, 10:44:59 PM
Answered a question with a question.

Typical lefty.

And what the hell does "...need support so I your butt-in-ski interjection..." mean?  8*

Put the bottle down, Frenchie, before you post any more.
Oops...caught me...I made a mistake....guess my club fingers couldn't keep up with my rapid fire keyboard pecking...or a brain fart...either way...so much for my display of brilliance.
Yep...legend in my own mind.  :P
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: excelsior on October 05, 2012, 10:47:41 PM
Why do you continually insist on pointing out that certain people were not in the military?  In the past few days you have done it with me, Professor H, and now Excelsior (maybe more, I don't know). I honor our brave service men and women, in ALL branches.  I saw nothing in Excelsior's post that was traitorous, and nothing that put down our military.  You don't have to have a military background to honor those who serve our country, so STOP degrading those who haven't been in the military!

I already know the answer to this, but did YOU serve?

In the military, I mean... not a prison term.

Fry has no information regarding my background whatsoever.   I find his claims of knowledge of me amusing as a butt-in-ski.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: livewire on October 05, 2012, 10:48:55 PM
Yep...legend in my own mind.  :P

Dat's a fact, Jack!   ;D
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Frenchfry on October 05, 2012, 11:01:20 PM
Fry has no information regarding my background whatsoever.   I find his claims of knowledge of me amusing as a butt-in-ski.
Oh come on...your type is transparent...never worked a day in your life...wouldn't know a callus if it bit you...a weak girly handshake..but soft hands...maybe a little clammy.... everything handed to you....indoctrinated in right-wing ideology....yeah...that all I've got.

Besides...sometimes it's important to listen to what isn't being said.....such as a denial.

But then truth is difficult to discern from a liar...and that's my assessment of you.

No need to reciprocate....I already know not to expect Xmas cards from you righties.  ;)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: excelsior on October 06, 2012, 12:50:53 AM
Duh...considering you've ignored the facts, even when presented directly to you, and then you've changed the narrative to continue your bash America nonsense....it's apparent you're a lost cause.

Show me evidence that the US was at the embassy and secured all sensitive documents before this week. 
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Will Sweat on October 06, 2012, 10:49:09 AM
Show me evidence that the US was at the embassy and secured all sensitive documents before this week. 

Is there any evidence that there were sensitive documents that have not been located?  Honestly - I have not been following this end of it.  I am still stuck on the fact that four Americans were killed and we seemed to have been mislead about the level of security at the embassy, why the attacks occurred and if they had been planned and coordinated.  This story, to me, is very striking and our lack of response to it is even more confusing.  (of course, there could be things going on that we are unaware of so I would rather without judgement). 
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Will Sweat on October 06, 2012, 01:35:24 PM
Did we really just throw our intelligence community under the bus? 

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/10/05/rice_on_benghazi_blame_the_intelligence_community?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+foreignpolicy%2Fthecable+%28The+Cable%29 (http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/10/05/rice_on_benghazi_blame_the_intelligence_community?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+foreignpolicy%2Fthecable+%28The+Cable%29)


Seems that way . . . it also seems they are not taking this lying down . . .

http://freebeacon.com/revolt-of-the-spooks/ (http://freebeacon.com/revolt-of-the-spooks/)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: excelsior on October 06, 2012, 02:59:19 PM
Is there any evidence that there were sensitive documents that have not been located?  Honestly - I have not been following this end of it.  I am still stuck on the fact that four Americans were killed and we seemed to have been mislead about the level of security at the embassy, why the attacks occurred and if they had been planned and coordinated.  This story, to me, is very striking and our lack of response to it is even more confusing.  (of course, there could be things going on that we are unaware of so I would rather without judgement).

There are numerous reporters stating that they been able to walk into the embassy and find documents laying on floors for past three weeks.  I agree that our lack of response is confusing.   Why wouldn't they demand that Libya secure the grounds or do it ourselves?
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: excelsior on October 08, 2012, 08:14:11 PM

Security Team Commander Says Ambassador Stevens Wanted His Team to Stay in Libya Past August

more at:  http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/10/security-team-commander-says-ambassador-stevens-wanted-his-team-to-stay-in-libya-past-august-2/ (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/10/security-team-commander-says-ambassador-stevens-wanted-his-team-to-stay-in-libya-past-august-2/)

Wood, a member of the Utah National Guard who ordinarily works in security for the Department of the Interior, is scheduled to testify before the House Oversight Committee hearings on Wednesday.

Asked for comment to the memo and Wood’s comments, a spokesman for the House Oversight Committee told ABC News: “Diplomats working in Libya viewed security provided by highly trained Americans as critical to their safety and mission. The Oversight Committee’s investigation continues to seek answers about why — even as threats against Americans increased — senior State Department officials erroneously decided such security was no longer needed.”
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: sammy on October 08, 2012, 08:17:52 PM
What was it the bard said? "Much ado about nothing".
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Flanders on October 10, 2012, 01:39:56 PM

Seriously, how long can you drones (you know who you are) defend this situation.  Perhaps a read of "the emperor's clothes" will give you some enlightenment.


Read on all those in denial.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/09/libya-consulate-attack-protests_n_1953057.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl19%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D217866 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/09/libya-consulate-attack-protests_n_1953057.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl19%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D217866)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Professor H on October 10, 2012, 01:47:04 PM
(http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/sbr100912dAPR20121008114607.jpg)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Forsythia on October 10, 2012, 02:19:35 PM
Seriously, how long can you drones (you know who you are) defend this situation.  Perhaps a read of "the emperor's clothes" will give you some enlightenment.


Read on all those in denial.


[url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/09/libya-consulate-attack-protests_n_1953057.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl19%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D217866[/url] ([url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/09/libya-consulate-attack-protests_n_1953057.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl19%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D217866[/url])



You do realize that less people have died due to terror attacks under Obama than under Bush in his first 4 years, and that's EXCLUDING 9/11.


Annnnnd the mother of a Navy Seal wants Romney to stop talking about her son...

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mckaycoppins/mother-of-slain-seal-tells-romney-to-stop-talking (http://www.buzzfeed.com/mckaycoppins/mother-of-slain-seal-tells-romney-to-stop-talking)

Quote
MOUNT VERNON, Ohio — At a town hall here Wednesday, Mitt Romney re-told a story he first revealed earlier this week about meeting one of the Navy SEALs who would later be killed in the attacks on the Benghazi consulate.

Romney has used the account in recent days on the stump to demonstrate the courage of Americans, in particular the troops: Upon hearing that the consulate was under attack, Glenn Doherty, 42, headed toward the action to try to defend it.

It's a compelling story, offering a surprisingly personal link between the candidate and the tragedy in Libya — but it's one the SEAL's mother wants him to stop telling.

Wednesday morning, NBC's Boston affiliate reported that Doherty's mother thought Romney was taking advantage of her son's death.

"I don't trust Romney," Barbara Doherty told WHDH 7. "He shouldn't make my son's death part of his political agenda. It's wrong to use these brave young men, who wanted freedom for all, to degrade Obama."

Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Will Sweat on October 10, 2012, 04:49:56 PM
You do realize that less people have died due to terror attacks under Obama than under Bush in his first 4 years, and that's EXCLUDING 9/11.


Annnnnd the mother of a Navy Seal wants Romney to stop talking about her son...

[url]http://www.buzzfeed.com/mckaycoppins/mother-of-slain-seal-tells-romney-to-stop-talking[/url] ([url]http://www.buzzfeed.com/mckaycoppins/mother-of-slain-seal-tells-romney-to-stop-talking[/url])



In terms of the Mother - her wishes should be respected. 

Reguarding the number of terrorist attacks.  This is a red-herring, IMO, in that Pres. Bush led under the mobilization of troops that put them directly in harms way - an act that would increase the number of "terrorist" incidents.  Pres. Obama has led during a draw down - taking troops out of harms way - so the expectation should be that there is less attacks, no? 

With the Libya incident, it does seem as if someone, State Department, White House, somebody - mislead the American people.  It also seems clear that the State Department was not giving the situation in Libya the attention that it required and given the death of the four Americans this is not only sad but tragic.  For this, Pres. Obama does not deserve a pass (not implying you are giving him one) but does deserve to have his feet held to the fire to find out which one of his staff knew what and when they knew it.  (Here's the thing - if Pres. Obama can take credit for the assasination of OBL (and he can) then he also can take the blame for the death of these four Americans - it happened on his watch). 

Playing devils advocate - you do acknowledge that there have been more deaths in Afghanistan under President Obama then during the entire eight years of Pres. Bush - no?  Said another way - it is true that 62% of all the casulties that have occured in Afghanistan have occured during the four years of the Obama Adminsitration.  (BTW - the number of casulties 2001 - 2008 = 583 v. 2009 - 2012 = 1,504).  That's really the problem with numbers / statistics and so on.  How you wish to measure them and then view the measurement is what matters. 

Although nothing I wrote or cited above is wrong - the trouble is that this does not meausre the very real fact that we have (a) increased the number of troops in Afghanistan and (b) coalition forces have left at an excelerated rate which means more risk. 

Anyhow -

http://icasualties.org/oef/ (http://icasualties.org/oef/)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Pax on October 10, 2012, 09:09:49 PM
     Correct me if I'm wrong: there appears to be a portion of the the Monroe populace concerned with the offing of a homosexually-inclined Ambassador they've never heard about before and they're up-in-arms for their personal safety? On first thought I say screw 'em...
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Will Sweat on October 10, 2012, 09:43:47 PM
     Correct me if I'm wrong: there appears to be a portion of the the Monroe populace concerned with the offing of a homosexually-inclined Ambassador they've never heard about before and they're up-in-arms for their personal safety? On first thought I say screw 'em...

Pax - correct me if I am wrong but the gentleman in question was a dignified Ambassador of our country and was murdered, no?  His sexual orientation is neither and issue nor a reason for his death - why interject such speculation? 
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Frenchfry on October 10, 2012, 09:55:36 PM
     Correct me if I'm wrong: there appears to be a portion of the the Monroe populace concerned with the offing of a homosexually-inclined Ambassador they've never heard about before and they're up-in-arms for their personal safety? On first thought I say screw 'em...
Nice...baseless allegations on someone unable to defend himself.  8*

His "inclination" shouldn't matter.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Frenchfry on October 10, 2012, 09:59:05 PM
The ranking Democrat on the Oversight Committee, Elijah Cummings of Maryland, charged the Republicans with cutting spending for security at diplomatic missions. "The fact is that since 2011, the House has cut embassy security by hundreds of millions of dollars below the amounts requested by the president," Mr. Cummings said.

He also said Democrats on the committee were blocked from interviewing witnesses and making an investigative trip to Libya

The testimony of Col. Wood and Mr. Nordstrom provided fodder, however, to Republican attacks on the administration's handling of security in Libya.

Mr. Nordstrom said that his security team had been stretched to protect visiting U.S. personnel and business delegations. He also noted that the Libyan government was slow in providing licenses for Libyan security officers to obtain guns.

"Overall security conditions continue to be unpredictable, with large numbers of armed groups and individuals."

Mr. Nordstrom said in written testimony that the Sept. 11 attack was so unexpected that it would have been difficult to repel even with extra security. "The ferocity and intensity of the attack was nothing that we had seen in Libya," he said.

Democrats at the hearing suggested that Col. Wood may have been coached by Republicans. Rep. Gerry Connolly (D., Va.) said that Democratic staffers had been trying to reach Col. Wood to discuss his testimony in recent days, but that he never returned their phone calls. The Democrat also noted that the Utah resident appeared to only communicate through Rep. Jason Chaffetz, the Utah Republican who has been among the most aggressive lawmakers regarding the handling of the Benghazi attack.

"No good is done for the United States to politicize this tragedy," said Rep. Connolly.

Col. Wood denied that he was avoiding Democrats, but said he found it easier to communicate through one source.

White House press secretary Jay Carney, asked about the decrease in security at the diplomatic post before Sept. 11, said security at U.S. facilities overseas needed to be reviewed.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444799904578048344154761294.html (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444799904578048344154761294.html)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Will Sweat on October 10, 2012, 10:23:09 PM
The ranking Democrat on the Oversight Committee, Elijah Cummings of Maryland, charged the Republicans with cutting spending for security at diplomatic missions. "The fact is that since 2011, the House has cut embassy security by hundreds of millions of dollars below the amounts requested by the president," Mr. Cummings said.

If true . . then why did Pres. Obama sign the budgets and authorize spending?  If true . . . then Republicans were also short sighted.  Either way . . . the State Department is the controlling agency for all Embassy's and is ultimately responsible.  If the State Department did not have the funding they felt they needed did they seek redress? 
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Frenchfry on October 10, 2012, 10:59:17 PM
If true . . then why did Pres. Obama sign the budgets and authorize spending?  If true . . . then Republicans were also short sighted.  Either way . . . the State Department is the controlling agency for all Embassy's and is ultimately responsible.  If the State Department did not have the funding they felt they needed did they seek redress?
This political ploy to blame Obama for everything under the sun is a foolish endeavor...but that won't stop you partisans from trying.

As I've said before...Obama made a huge mistake by including Republicans and conservatives in his cabinet....And my initial reaction was an inept rightie or intentional sabotage by a rightie may have something to do with this mess.

But really...it may be nothing more the failure of congress and exemplifies the problem with austerity.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: excelsior on October 10, 2012, 11:05:49 PM
This political ploy to blame Obama for everything under the sun is a foolish endeavor...but that won't stop you partisans from trying.

As I've said before...Obama made a huge mistake by including Republicans and conservatives in his cabinet....And my initial reaction was an inept rightie or intentional sabotage by a rightie may have something to do with this mess.

But really...it may be nothing more the failure of congress and exemplifies the problem with austerity.

A good manager does his or her job within the budget.   If you do not have the budget to manage the resources then you start right sizing your resources to the budget.   

If the sources were not available to keep the Libya Embassy open then it should have been closed. 
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Frenchfry on October 10, 2012, 11:25:20 PM
A good manager does his or her job within the budget.   If you do not have the budget to manage the resources then you start right sizing your resources to the budget.   

If the sources were not available to keep the Libya Embassy open then it should have been closed.
The President isn't a micromanaging dictator...he has to deal with Congress...but my guess is any mention of the Legislative branch is inconvenient to your narrative.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Professor H on October 11, 2012, 03:31:06 AM
Obama appoints but the Secretary of State oversees from what I've gathered - as the State Department is the focus for not providing either adequate security - or adequate intel in a region that just underwent a civil war and has groups of armed "militia" running around.

Obama's blame is his staff calling it something other than a terror attack - but then again he isn't fighting the war on terror anymore - as that was Bush's terminology.

Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Will Sweat on October 11, 2012, 06:35:52 AM
This political ploy to blame Obama for everything under the sun is a foolish endeavor...but that won't stop you partisans from trying.

As I've said before...Obama made a huge mistake by including Republicans and conservatives in his cabinet....And my initial reaction was an inept rightie or intentional sabotage by a rightie may have something to do with this mess.

But really...it may be nothing more the failure of congress and exemplifies the problem with austerity.

As there was no ploy to "blame" anyone but ask questions its better to ignore much of the rambling. 

Please, though, get with whomever you must and ferret out who was inept or may have intentionally sabotaged something - the secondary of which could be treasonous if it can be shown to be true as it resulted in death of four Americans.  If true, that person should be brought up on charges at a minimum. 

Or . . just continue pointing the finger at the mythical right that was not the Secretary of State, President or in control of the Senate when these things occur.  The partisan defense of all things "Obama" is not working either, there is enough blame to go around - including the House and Senate. 

But . . . it's hard to say the Senate did not assist in allocating resources as they have yet to produce a budget during the last three or four years.  So in this instance Rep. Cummings should also include that the Senate did not allocate the money requested by Pres. Obama in his budget because they neither past it or wrote one themselves.  Of course, that would not fit his narrative to be honest and accountable. 

Maybe - everyone should stop playing politics with the death of four Americans in a terrorist attack and simply find out the answers to the right questions; who, what, why, when, where and how.  Irrespective of what "party" they are affiliated and hold them responsible. 
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Will Sweat on October 11, 2012, 07:15:41 AM
The mother of State Department official Sean Smith, who was killed September 11, 2012 in the terrorist attack on the American consulate in Benghazi, Libya, appeared on CNN this evening.

In an interview with CNN's Anderson Cooper she states that Pres. Obama, Secretary of State Clinton, Vice President Biden, Leon Penetta, and Susan Rice have all had personal conversations with her and according to her what they have told her have been, "out right lies"

She states she still does not know the cause of death of her son.  She said, you know, they treat me like -- at first I was so proud because they were treating me so nice when I went to that reception. They all came up to me and talked to me and everything. I cried on Obama's shoulder. And he -- then he'd kind of looked off into the distance. So that was worthless to me. I want to know, for god's sakes. Or for Allah's sake or whoever's sake is there.  

Pretty harrowing video at the link below: 

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/mother-slain-state-dept-official-tired-being-lied-and-stonewalled-obama-administration_654163.html (http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/mother-slain-state-dept-official-tired-being-lied-and-stonewalled-obama-administration_654163.html)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Will Sweat on October 11, 2012, 06:06:16 PM
This boarderlines on pathetic. . . . . consider if you are the wife, mother, father, sibling or child of one of the four Americans killed in Benghazi.  According to Obama 2012 Deputy Campain Manager, Stephanie Cutter, Benghazi is an issue only because of "Romney and Ryan".  WOW -

In an interview with CNN: 

STEPHANIE CUTTER: In terms of the politicization of this — you know, we are here at a debate, and I hope we get to talk about the debate — but the entire reason this has become the political topic it is, is because of Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan. It’s a big part of their stump speech. And it’s reckless and irresponsible what they’re doing.
 
BROOKE BALDWIN: But, Stephanie, this is national security. As we witnessed this revolution last year, we covered it–
 
CUTTER: It is absolutely national security–
 
BALDWIN: –it is absolutely pertinent. People in the American public absolutely have a right to get answers.


WOW . . . I don't even know what to say.  Maybe there is more to the story but this is what was posted and it is what is contained on the video. 

See more including video at:

http://freebeacon.com/cutter-benghazi-is-only-an-issue-because-of-romney-and-ryan/ (http://freebeacon.com/cutter-benghazi-is-only-an-issue-because-of-romney-and-ryan/)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: livewire on October 11, 2012, 06:16:09 PM
This boarderlines on pathetic. . . . . consider if you are the wife, mother, father, sibling or child of one of the four Americans killed in Benghazi.  According to Obama 2012 Deputy Campain Manager, Stephanie Cutter, Benghazi is an issue only because of "Romney and Ryan".  WOW -

In an interview with CNN: 

STEPHANIE CUTTER: In terms of the politicization of this — you know, we are here at a debate, and I hope we get to talk about the debate — but the entire reason this has become the political topic it is, is because of Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan. It’s a big part of their stump speech. And it’s reckless and irresponsible what they’re doing.
 
BROOKE BALDWIN: But, Stephanie, this is national security. As we witnessed this revolution last year, we covered it–
 
CUTTER: It is absolutely national security–
 
BALDWIN: –it is absolutely pertinent. People in the American public absolutely have a right to get answers.


WOW . . . I don't even know what to say.  Maybe there is more to the story but this is what was posted and it is what is contained on the video. 

See more including video at:

[url]http://freebeacon.com/cutter-benghazi-is-only-an-issue-because-of-romney-and-ryan/[/url] ([url]http://freebeacon.com/cutter-benghazi-is-only-an-issue-because-of-romney-and-ryan/[/url])


Honestly, Will, it doesn't surprise me one bit, coming from Obama and his people running his campaign.

ALL military personnel, and their families, should be SCREAMING at this injustice.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: The Fuzz on October 11, 2012, 06:47:17 PM
I bet she was told afterwards to zip it.  Every campaign has one or two that run off at the mouth.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: ducksoup on October 11, 2012, 08:38:55 PM
While attempting to use the death of American government officials in Libya to help Mitt Romney’s election bid, fellow Utah Republican Jason Chaffetz, and his House Republican colleagues on the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, outed a classified CIA operation, on C-SPAN no less, endangering American national security.

Chaffetz and company were using the death of the US ambassador to Libya, and others, to try to smear the President for “security lapses,” and as the Washington Post’s Dana Milbank points out in a great scoop, Chaffetz and company managed to create their own massive security lapse.

In a nutshell, the State Department was briefing the congressional Republicans, at an open hearing that the Republicans called, and were showing commercially-available satellite images of the area of the attack. Suddenly, Republican Chaffetz and GOP Committee chair Darrell Issa (another piece of work) both suggested that the images showed classified information that could endanger current ongoing operations in the area. As Milbank points out, this confirmed two things – one, that the picture was apparently of a CIA base, and two, that the base might still be in operation even after the attack that killed our ambassador.
Chaffetz’s and Issa’s outbursts ensured that every terrorist in the world would now be checking C-SPAN to find out what the CIA was hiding in Benghazi, and that the base in Benghazi would become a high-priority target, as the CIA is frowned upon by Al Qaeda terrorists and others.
But you can’t fault, Chaffetz and Issa, they and their fellow House Republicans were simply doing the bidding of their mentor in “opportunism,” Mitt Romney. You’ll recall that it was Team Romney that found the murder of a US ambasador in Benghazi to be “an opportunity.” And it was Mitt Romney himself who said he was waiting for another Iran hostage type crisis, or any national security crisis really, to take advantage of the “opportunity” to help his campaign for president. Chaffetz and the House GOP were simply doing what any good Republican would do in their place – they were taking advantage of what they saw as a great “opportunity,” the murder of American government officials.

Here’s a bit from Milbanks piece:
That the Benghazi compound had included a large CIA presence had been reported but not confirmed. The New York Times, for example, had reported that among those evacuated were “about a dozen CIA operatives and contractors.” The paper, like The Washington Post, withheld locations and details of the facilities at the administration’s request.
But on Wednesday, the withholding was on hold.
The Republican lawmakers, in their outbursts, alternated between scolding the State Department officials for hiding behind classified material and blaming them for disclosing information that should have been classified. But the lawmakers created the situation by ordering a public hearing on a matter that belonged behind closed doors.
Republicans were aiming to embarrass the Obama administration over State Department security lapses. But they inadvertently caused a different picture to emerge than the one that has been publicly known: that the victims may have been let down not by the State Department but by the CIA. If the CIA was playing such a major role in these events, which was the unmistakable impression left by Wednesday’s hearing, having a televised probe of the matter was absurd.
Another point. The question of how much obvious security there was at the compound becomes rather interesting now that Chaffetz has informed us that this was actually a CIA station. I could imagine that the CIA might not have wanted a massive contingent of Marines based at the “consulate and ‘annex’,” lest it signal to the bad guys that this was not simply a backwater “consulate and ‘annex’.” But the administration couldn’t give that response while Mitt Romney and the House Republicans were berating them for supposedly not having more security at the station, they couldn’t explain that maybe we didn’t want the extra security because it might have signaled that there was actually a CIA operation underway.
Sounds like it’s time for a hearing about the hearing.

http://americablog.com/2012/10/house-gops-chaffetz-outs-undercover-cia-operation-in-libya-on-c-span.html (http://americablog.com/2012/10/house-gops-chaffetz-outs-undercover-cia-operation-in-libya-on-c-span.html)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: ducksoup on October 11, 2012, 08:40:08 PM
AP paints a devastating portrait of a man, Mitt Romney, who jumped the gun, didn’t care that he was wrong, and whose staff was giddy that Americans were under attack abroad – while Americans saw death, Team Romney smelled “opportunity.”
In Washington, Republican foreign policy veterans called Romney’s initial statement premature and rushed, with limited facts and an incomplete understanding of what was happening in Egypt and Libya. Romney’s team also was unclear about the timeline of when the Obama administration weighed in.
One Republican official advising Romney’s campaign on foreign policy and national security issues painted a picture of a Romney campaign more focused on ensuring Romney’s evening statement made it into morning news stories than on waiting for details about what had happened.
This official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to avoid angering Romney’s campaign, said that as word of violence spread, campaign aides late Tuesday watched tweets coming out of the U.S. Embassy in Cairo that were criticizing the filmmaker rather than condemning the attackers, and saw an opportunity to criticize Obama.
I’ve actually never seen this strong a criticism from AP in one of their fact checks. This is one of those times where even the media – which sometimes tries so hard to be objective that they’re afraid to call a lie a lie – calls a lie a lie.
For example, AP points out that Romney lied when he claimed that the US embassy issued their statement after the attacks – it was hours before, that’s why the statement didn’t condemn the violence. There hadn’t been any violence yet.
A damning fact check from AP:
The gunfire at the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi, Libya, had barely ceased when Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney seriously mischaracterized what had happened in a statement accusing President Barack Obama of “disgraceful” handling of violence there and at the U.S. Embassy in Cairo.
“The Obama administration’s first response was not to condemn attacks on our diplomatic missions, but to sympathize with those who waged the attacks,” Romney said in a statement first emailed to reporters at 10:09 p.m. Eastern time, under the condition it not be published until midnight.
In fact, neither a statement by the U.S. Embassy in Cairo earlier in the day nor a later statement from Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton offered sympathy for attackers. The statement from the Cairo Embassy had condemned anti-Muslim religious incitement before the embassy walls were breached. In her statement, issued minutes before Romney’s, Clinton had offered the administration’s first response to the violence in Libya, explicitly condemning the attack there and confirming the death of a State Department official.
http://elections.americablog.com/2012/09/ap-romney-lied-as-advisers-saw-libyaegypt-violence-as-opportunity.html (http://elections.americablog.com/2012/09/ap-romney-lied-as-advisers-saw-libyaegypt-violence-as-opportunity.html)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Will Sweat on October 11, 2012, 09:24:52 PM
Duck . . . honest to gosh, man.  This transcends politics - that is - blaming parties.  Let's find out who knew what and when they knew it.  So what if Gov. Romney acted like an *** . . . you know, it was Rohm Emmanuel who said, "never let a good crisis go to waste".  There were four American's killed. 

Like it or not we, and the families of those killed, deserve to know why and how this occurred. 

I get that this is inconvenient for Pres. Obama - big gosh darn - that's part of the job!
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Frenchfry on October 11, 2012, 11:14:40 PM
Duck . . . honest to gosh, man.  This transcends politics - that is - blaming parties.  Let's find out who knew what and when they knew it.  So what if Gov. Romney acted like an *** . . . you know, it was Rohm Emmanuel who said, "never let a good crisis go to waste".  There were four American's killed. 

Like it or not we, and the families of those killed, deserve to know why and how this occurred. 

I get that this is inconvenient for Pres. Obama - big gosh darn - that's part of the job!
LOL...like you're impartial.

Your words have betrayed your apparent desire to appear objective.

So quit whining when news appears that puts YOUR Party in a bad light.

It's the Republican right that's playing the partisan angle....and they're the ones responsible for $300 million in budget cuts in embassy security.

Fact check: A 2nd look at Biden and Ryan claims

10:41PM EST October 11. 2012 - Vice President Biden and Rep. Paul Ryan disputed a range of facts during their debate Thursday in Danville, Ky. Here are a few foreign policy claims worth examining:

Libya

Claim: Ryan said President Obama took two weeks to acknowledge the Sept. 11 attack on the Benghazi consulate was conducted by terrorists rather than protests.

The facts: This is mostly false. White House spokesman Jay Carney said at the Sept. 20 White House press briefing that the incident was a terrorist attack. The president himself, speaking on the David Letterman Show on Sept. 18, a week after the attack, said "terrorists and extremists" had attacked U.S. diplomatic installations in Libya and elsewhere, using a controversial video that portrayed the prophet Mohammed as a pedophile as a pretext.In fact, Obama called the assault "an act of terror" in remarks on Sept. 12. But Carney and other top administration officials, including Obama's envoy to the United Nations, continued to describe the incident as part of a protest outside the American diplomatic mission for several days after the incident.

Security cuts

Claim: Biden said Ryan's budget called for a $300 million cut to security of the U.S. embassy in Libya.

The facts: Ryan's budget plan would have cut non-defense discretionary spending by 19% in 2014, according to The Hill newspaper. The blueprint doesn't specify cuts to embassy security, but the Obama campaign says the figure — if applied across the board — would result in a $300 million decrease in funding for protection, construction and maintenance of all U.S. embassies.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2012/10/11/vice-presidential-debate-fact-check/1628435/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2012/10/11/vice-presidential-debate-fact-check/1628435/)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: ducksoup on October 12, 2012, 12:56:22 AM
Duck . . . honest to gosh, man.  This transcends politics - that is - blaming parties.  Let's find out who knew what and when they knew it.  So what if Gov. Romney acted like an *** . . . you know, it was Rohm Emmanuel who said, "never let a good crisis go to waste".  There were four American's killed. 

Like it or not we, and the families of those killed, deserve to know why and how this occurred. 

I get that this is inconvenient for Pres. Obama - big gosh darn - that's part of the job!

Duck . . . honest to gosh, man. This transcends politics - that is - blaming parties. Let's find out who knew what and when they knew it. So what if Gov. Romney acted like an *** . . . you know, it was Rohm Emmanuel who said, "never let a good crisis go to waste". There were four American's killed.

Like it or not we, and the families of those killed, deserve to know why and how this occurred.

I get that this is inconvenient for Pres. Obama - big gosh darn - that's part of the job! [/quote]


This was a tragic thing and it is sad that people lost their lives. 

Yes, I agree that Romney took advantage of a bad situation before he even knew what was happening.  Does that mean that the Administration has to give every tidbit of information they have to the media so it SEEMS like they aren’t “hiding stuff” as is spouted.  Seems to me that getting the FACTS before spouting off and saying things for either side is what is right, and waiting for the specialist to inform the president is better than jumping off with false information. 

Finding out if anything can be done to prevent another such case is good,   playing it up for political points is not.  Issa’s investigation should have been private because of the nature of the situation and secrecy, yet he wanted a purely political slap, and not really after how to prevent another.  It was all about placing blame and not finding what would be valuable.  Sadly, because of that partisan push they exposed a CIA safe house, an open and still operating one.. Wow.

As the article said, a part of that compound or near it was an operating CIA operation that extra security would have drawn attention to, and also now is useless. 

18 pages of blame Obama and blame him more isn’t partisan?  When I post an article showing that it shouldn’t be political I get blamed for trying to make it political?  Really?
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Will Sweat on October 12, 2012, 09:27:36 AM
LOL...like you're impartial.

Your words have betrayed your apparent desire to appear objective.

So quit whining when news appears that puts YOUR Party in a bad light.

It's the Republican right that's playing the partisan angle....and they're the ones responsible for $300 million in budget cuts in embassy security.

Fact check: A 2nd look at Biden and Ryan claims

10:41PM EST October 11. 2012 - Vice President Biden and Rep. Paul Ryan disputed a range of facts during their debate Thursday in Danville, Ky. Here are a few foreign policy claims worth examining:

Libya

Claim: Ryan said President Obama took two weeks to acknowledge the Sept. 11 attack on the Benghazi consulate was conducted by terrorists rather than protests.

The facts: This is mostly false. White House spokesman Jay Carney said at the Sept. 20 White House press briefing that the incident was a terrorist attack. The president himself, speaking on the David Letterman Show on Sept. 18, a week after the attack, said "terrorists and extremists" had attacked U.S. diplomatic installations in Libya and elsewhere, using a controversial video that portrayed the prophet Mohammed as a pedophile as a pretext.In fact, Obama called the assault "an act of terror" in remarks on Sept. 12. But Carney and other top administration officials, including Obama's envoy to the United Nations, continued to describe the incident as part of a protest outside the American diplomatic mission for several days after the incident.

Security cuts

Claim: Biden said Ryan's budget called for a $300 million cut to security of the U.S. embassy in Libya.

The facts: Ryan's budget plan would have cut non-defense discretionary spending by 19% in 2014, according to The Hill newspaper. The blueprint doesn't specify cuts to embassy security, but the Obama campaign says the figure — if applied across the board — would result in a $300 million decrease in funding for protection, construction and maintenance of all U.S. embassies.
[url]http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2012/10/11/vice-presidential-debate-fact-check/1628435/[/url] ([url]http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2012/10/11/vice-presidential-debate-fact-check/1628435/[/url])


Thank you for doing what you chastise others for and involving yourself in something that was not directed at you. 

It's funny how you are so quick to not notice that I pointed out Gov. Romney was wrong. 

Again with the juvenile desire to classify people into little boxes :-/. 

You may wish to re-read the article you posted from USA today along with the statement that "they're the ones responsible for $300 million in budget cuts in embassy security."  As unless there is more to the article it reads; The blueprint doesn't specify cuts to embassy security, but the Obama campaign says the figure — if applied across the board — would result in a $300 million decrease in funding for protection, construction and maintenance of all U.S. embassies. in a budget for 2014 . . . not sure how a budget two years from now can be seen as having an impact today - it's a projection.  But - it does fit the narrative of ensuring those most favored do not get blamed. 
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Will Sweat on October 12, 2012, 09:29:23 AM
Duck . . . honest to gosh, man. This transcends politics - that is - blaming parties. Let's find out who knew what and when they knew it. So what if Gov. Romney acted like an *** . . . you know, it was Rohm Emmanuel who said, "never let a good crisis go to waste". There were four American's killed.

Like it or not we, and the families of those killed, deserve to know why and how this occurred.

I get that this is inconvenient for Pres. Obama - big gosh darn - that's part of the job!


This was a tragic thing and it is sad that people lost their lives. 

Yes, I agree that Romney took advantage of a bad situation before he even knew what was happening.  Does that mean that the Administration has to give every tidbit of information they have to the media so it SEEMS like they aren’t “hiding stuff” as is spouted.  Seems to me that getting the FACTS before spouting off and saying things for either side is what is right, and waiting for the specialist to inform the president is better than jumping off with false information. 

Finding out if anything can be done to prevent another such case is good,   playing it up for political points is not.  Issa’s investigation should have been private because of the nature of the situation and secrecy, yet he wanted a purely political slap, and not really after how to prevent another.  It was all about placing blame and not finding what would be valuable.  Sadly, because of that partisan push they exposed a CIA safe house, an open and still operating one.. Wow.

As the article said, a part of that compound or near it was an operating CIA operation that extra security would have drawn attention to, and also now is useless. 

18 pages of blame Obama and blame him more isn’t partisan?  When I post an article showing that it shouldn’t be political I get blamed for trying to make it political?  Really?


Duck - my apologies if you felt I was blaming you, that was not my intent.  To be fair I think there is enough blame to go around and after viewing the video of the Mother speaking of her murdered son and the response she has recieved. 
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Professor H on October 12, 2012, 03:05:01 PM
Don't waste too much time on Facts or Reason...

Figures about budgets are always inflated or project out for "years"...

Why does the Embassy in Paris need security greater than that in a War Zone, was a great question that the Admin or their cheerleaders won't answer - they just want to point in another direction to deflect the mistakes that were made.

I'm sure the video lectures will soon explain it all...  ;D

Thank you for doing what you chastise others for and involving yourself in something that was not directed at you. 

It's funny how you are so quick to not notice that I pointed out Gov. Romney was wrong. 

Again with the juvenile desire to classify people into little boxes :-/. 

You may wish to re-read the article you posted from USA today along with the statement that "they're the ones responsible for $300 million in budget cuts in embassy security."  As unless there is more to the article it reads; The blueprint doesn't specify cuts to embassy security, but the Obama campaign says the figure — if applied across the board — would result in a $300 million decrease in funding for protection, construction and maintenance of all U.S. embassies. in a budget for 2014 . . . not sure how a budget two years from now can be seen as having an impact today - it's a projection.  But - it does fit the narrative of ensuring those most favored do not get blamed. 
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: ducksoup on October 12, 2012, 03:38:22 PM
Don't waste too much time on Facts or Reason...

Figures about budgets are always inflated or project out for "years"...

Why does the Embassy in Paris need security greater than that in a War Zone, was a great question that the Admin or their cheerleaders won't answer - they just want to point in another direction to deflect the mistakes that were made.

While it is true that the budget won’t effect this year, it is still true that those cutting that budget don’t care where that cut goes.  If cuts to security have to happen to make that (not saying it does) the ones voting don’t care about that, only the money.

Interesting question about Paris.  On the face one says “gosh, it seems wrong to need that much in Paris and skimp other places.”  But, do you know WHY there is more there?  I don’t.  Could it be that the State Dept. thinks there is a bigger risk there?  It could be.  It could be that Paris has a big contingent of spooks that are called employees but aren’t.  Congresscritters asking that in private meetings isn’t wrong at all, and could be a good question.  What if the risk was high and the State Dept. moved personnel anyway and that risk happened with a bad attack.  Then 20/20 hindsight would be blaming Obama for cutting that contingent.  It is all a looking back blame game and not looking at what is real.

However, the 20/20 hindsight of blame Obama gets us no where either.

I have read a lot about this and mostly it is all over the place, facts this way and that.  Benghazi was a consulate, not an embassy, which is a different animal.

The immediate response to the attack was defense by the Libya government.  They defended as best they could for a long time. 

I suppose looking a different way, I would not like very much if a consulate or embassy in Monroe from another country, say Iran, had a contingent of 50,000 armed troops.  I would expect the host country be responsible for security so that would not happen.

How many full time military would it have taken to stop that attack?  I saw Libyan armored equipment and many soldiers firing teargas and bullets and only managing a standoff. 

Did you know beforehand that a planned attack was going to happen and where and when?  I sure didn’t.  Given that the CIA believed it initially to be a protest and not a preplanned assault kind of says they didn’t either.

Asking the questions to help prevent more of the same is important.  The automatic blame by hindsight with no real knowledge is irresponsible.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: excelsior on October 15, 2012, 08:56:09 PM
Breaking news just before the second debate.

Clinton: 'I take responsibility' for security ahead of Benghazi attack

more at:  http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/15/us/clinton-benghazi/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/15/us/clinton-benghazi/index.html)

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said the buck stops with her when it comes to who is to blame for security ahead of a deadly assault on the U.S. diplomatic mission in Benghazi, Libya.

"I take responsibility" for what happened on September 11, Clinton said in an interview with CNN's Elise Labott soon after arriving in Lima, Peru, for a visit. The interview, one of a series given to U.S. television networks Monday night, was the first she has given about the attack on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi.

Clinton insisted President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden are not involved in security decisions.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Professor H on October 15, 2012, 10:37:02 PM
Breaking news just before the second debate.

Clinton: 'I take responsibility' for security ahead of Benghazi attack

more at:  [url]http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/15/us/clinton-benghazi/index.html[/url] ([url]http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/15/us/clinton-benghazi/index.html[/url])

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said the buck stops with her when it comes to who is to blame for security ahead of a deadly assault on the U.S. diplomatic mission in Benghazi, Libya.

"I take responsibility" for what happened on September 11, Clinton said in an interview with CNN's Elise Labott soon after arriving in Lima, Peru, for a visit. The interview, one of a series given to U.S. television networks Monday night, was the first she has given about the attack on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi.

Clinton insisted President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden are not involved in security decisions.

Admire her for finally speaking out,  not sure if she had to wait and get clearance from the big guy.

People make mistakes - and Leaders will stand up and take the good with the bad.

The buck stops here is a truism when it comes to wanting that Leadership position. 
Now that she's taking a role, it makes Obama look even weaker the way his advisers handled and let out the early releases.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: John Kopke on October 15, 2012, 11:05:54 PM
Appears to me, in this case the Obama Administration took on a bridge too far. A week after the murder of the ambassador and the 3 others they had Susan Rice hit the Sunday talk shows saying it was blah blah due to some video. Apparently they were confident the MSM would go along with the sham. Unfortunately not everyone in the government would go along. Hearings showed ambassador and others had repeatedly asked for more security, and were denied. Even MSM could't go along when people died.

Long and short the administration realized if the truth got out they were in deep do do. So they made up a false narrative hoping the Pelosi wouldn't hit the fan until after the election. Wouldn't want some bumps in the road, or 4 dead people, to interfere with Obama being re-elected.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Frenchfry on October 16, 2012, 07:43:31 AM

Clinton: 'I take responsibility' for Benghazi

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said the bucks stops with her when it comes to who is blame for a deadly assault on the U.S. diplomatic mission in Benghazi.

"I take responsibility" for what happened on September 11, Clinton said in an interview with CNN's Elise Labott soon after arriving in Lima, Peru for a visit. The interview, one of a series given to U.S. television networks Monday night, were the first she has given about the attack on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi.

Clinton insisted President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden are not involved in security decisions, Clinton said.

"I want to avoid some kind of political gotcha," she added, noting that it is close to the election.

The attack killed Chris Stevens, the U.S. ambassador to Libya, and three other Americans at the consulate.

The Obama administration has been heavily criticized after Vice President Joe Biden said during last week's vice presidential debate that the White House did not know of requests to enhance security at Benghazi, contradicting testimony by State Department employees that requests had been made and rejected. Following the debate, the White House said the vice president did not know of the requests because they were handled, as is the practice, by the State Department.

Clinton also sought to downplay the criticism that administration officials continued to say the attack was a spontaneous product of a protest over an anti-Muslim film, a theory that has since been discarded.

In the wake of an attack, there is always "confusion," Clinton said. But the information has since changed, Clinton said in the interview.

The secretary of state also described the desperate scene in the State Department during the hours of the attack on the night of September 10. It was an "intense, long ordeal" as staff tried to find out what had happened.

Clinton said her mission now is to make sure such an attack will never happen again – but also that diplomacy, even in dangerous areas like Benghazi, is not stopped.

"We can't not engage," she said. "We cannot retreat."
http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/15/clinton-i-take-responsibility-for-benghazi/ (http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/15/clinton-i-take-responsibility-for-benghazi/)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Flanders on October 16, 2012, 08:52:07 AM
Clinton falls on her sword..

Laughable.  Too little too late.  Plus, was it Clinton who ordered Rice to hastily make a statement about the video??  This is where the attention will be focused, even as Obama tries his best misdirection.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: tnweasel on October 16, 2012, 09:06:50 AM
poor Hilary.... she gets to claim the death of Chris Stevens while the President gets to claim the death of bin Laden..... I find it way too political that she told the president of Peru that she couldn't wait to get back to the US to see the debate tonight..... no, this isn't at all a political move.....
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Monroe Native on October 16, 2012, 08:08:36 PM
It is simply amazing how much loyalty you can get when you pay off someones campaign debts.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Frenchfry on October 18, 2012, 12:11:08 PM
It is simply amazing how much loyalty you can get when you pay off someones campaign debts.
The amazing part is how you righties can besmirch without an iota of proof.
I consider you a disgusting individual...a typical Republican...but then I never could stand liars.
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Will Sweat on October 19, 2012, 09:49:20 AM
poor Hilary.... she gets to claim the death of Chris Stevens while the President gets to claim the death of bin Laden..... I find it way too political that she told the president of Peru that she couldn't wait to get back to the US to see the debate tonight..... no, this isn't at all a political move.....

I admire Sec. of State Clinton for taking responsibility - it was her department and she is the top dog.  Like her or not (btw - I do), she has always seemed to have the courage of her convictions going all the way back to her time as a young lawyer working on the watergate fiasco. 

Playing devils advocate, if she or her department did not raise any concerns to the whitehouse than Pres. Obama is not responsible as he had no knowledge.  However, he should take action (fire) those who should have told him the gravity of the situation, IMO, as that is his responsibility to ensure he as Commander in Chief, is aware of all threats. 
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: Will Sweat on October 19, 2012, 02:13:01 PM
Troubling report from business insider seems to make the assertion that the US via the CIA maybe providing weapons to the jihadist in Syria.  Yep, the same folks that appear to be responsible for the murder of four Americans. 

I hope this isn't the case.  Story at the link below. 

http://www.businessinsider.com/us-syria-heavy-weapons-jihadists-2012-10#ixzz29keeGla8 (http://www.businessinsider.com/us-syria-heavy-weapons-jihadists-2012-10#ixzz29keeGla8)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: ducksoup on October 21, 2012, 02:10:31 PM
Fox’s Peter Doocy said on Friday that one of the supposed ringleaders of the deadly attack on our consulate, and newly-outed CIA facility (thanks to GOP Cong. Chaffetz we now know that there was a CIA station next to our consulate), claims the attack was in fact inspired as a response to the now infamous anti-Muslim hate video:
 

The New York Times caught up with Abu Katala at a luxury hotel in Libya and he says he was just trying to break up a traffic jam near the consulate, and that he was not participating in the raid, but that the attack was tied to that anti-Islamic video.

Witnesses and the authorities have called Ahmed Abu Khattala one of the ringleaders of the Sept. 11 attack on the American diplomatic mission here.
 
Mr. Abu Khattala, 41, wearing a red fez and sandals, added his own spin. Contradicting the accounts of many witnesses and the most recent account of the Obama administration, he contended that the attack had grown out of a peaceful protest against a video made in the United States that mocked the Prophet Muhammad and Islam.

This would seem to contradict Mitt Romney’s claim that we knew the attack Al Qaeda or some other terrorist group, and premeditated, and thus not inspired by the hateful anti-Muslim video.
 
What the Fox report shows is that even one month after the attack, we’er still getting conflicting reports as to exactly what happened, which is the norm.
 
Still unanswered is why it even matters whether the Obama administration was able to conclude who committed the attack, and why, in the first few hours, or even days, after the attack. Does Romney think the President just waves a magic wand and suddenly the CIA will know, for certain, ever, who committed the attack?
 
It doesn’t work that way. And if anything, Romney’s insistence that the Obama administration must have known, from the git-go, who actually committed the attack is less evidence of the Obama administration complicity and more evidence of Mitt Romney’s ignorance.
 
One almost gets the sense that Romney, and the rightwing noise machine, are defending the anti-Muslim hate video. Remember how that was Romney’s initial line of attack, that the administration was “apologizing” for the video. That was before Romney himself apologized for the video
http://americablog.com/2012/10/foxs-peter-doocy-reports-benghazi-attack-might-have-tied-to-the-video.html (http://americablog.com/2012/10/foxs-peter-doocy-reports-benghazi-attack-might-have-tied-to-the-video.html)
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: MM1 on October 21, 2012, 02:25:55 PM
Too convenient. 
Title: Re: US ambassador killed in consulate attack in Libya
Post by: ducksoup on October 21, 2012, 02:34:47 PM
Too convenient. 
OMG!  I never would have believed anyone could claim Fox News as anything but gospel...


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