MonroeTalks.com > Categories > News > Nope, no climate change here folks.


Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 122   Go Down

Author Topic: Nope, no climate change here folks.  (Read 91148 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

lordfly

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7567
  • Fancy.
Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #30 on: July 06, 2012, 08:53:41 AM »

NASA... You mean outer space?

Do you seriously think the National Aeronautic and Space Administration only deals with outer space?
Logged
your mom goes to college.

lordfly

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7567
  • Fancy.
Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #31 on: July 06, 2012, 08:54:59 AM »

You believe a theory that you cannot prove.  I have alternate examples that debunk what you believe... yet you have the PROOF?  That is not in line with the Scientific Theory.  Therefore you are in bed with junk science.  I will wait for PROOF.

You cannot prove that me burying my toxic garbage under your house is going to harm your family, therefore I will do it, because SCIENCE.


Logged
your mom goes to college.

Baby Hitler

  • Guest
Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #32 on: July 06, 2012, 09:13:07 AM »

NASA... You mean outer space?

I can provide rebuttals to everything you bring to the plate, but you will just poo poo everyone and say "blah blah blah it is happening and you are an uneducated fool until you agree with me" so really what is the point in continuing?

You believe a theory that you cannot prove.  I have alternate examples that debunk what you believe... yet you have the PROOF?  That is not in line with the Scientific Theory.  Therefore you are in bed with junk science.  I will wait for PROOF.
Ok, what PROOF is it that you require? Evidently, you have some idea of what empirical evidence that would finally make you believe.

What is it?
Logged

marilyn.monroe

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9218
Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #33 on: July 06, 2012, 09:35:41 AM »

The military shooting lazers in the sky and heating things can't be good. Weather manipulation, nukes, hole in the ozone. Burden of proof should be on the ones creating this mess!
Logged

Professor H

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 21754
Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #34 on: July 06, 2012, 04:44:25 PM »


Burden of proof should be on the ones creating this mess!


I'll ask the Sun to give a statment   ;D

Somewhere between the two is where the cause is, just as when the climate was cooling years ago.   
Logged
First, it was not a strip bar, it was an erotic club. And second, what can I say? I'm a night owl.
Marion Berry

But we have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.
Nancy Pelosi

Frenchfry

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 39903
Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #35 on: July 06, 2012, 04:56:10 PM »

Is the Sun to Blame?

How do we know that changes in the sun aren’t to blame for current global warming trends?

Since 1978, a series of satellite instruments have measured the energy output of the sun directly. The satellite data show a very slight drop in solar irradiance (which is a measure of the amount of energy the sun gives off) over this time period. So the sun doesn't appear to be responsible for the warming trend observed over the past 30 years.

Longer-term estimates of solar irradiance have been made using sunspot records and other so-called “proxy indicators,” such as the amount of carbon in tree rings. The most recent analyses of these proxies indicate that solar irradiance changes cannot plausibly account for more than 10 percent of the 20th century’s warming.
http://climate.nasa.gov/causes/
Logged
This is what I see when I visit:

"Sorry Frenchfry, you are banned from posting and sending personal messages on this forum.
This ban is not set to expire."

No emails, no warnings, no communication whatsoever...just that ban

May be what happened to the other libs as well.

I guess disabling the report to admin link only on the lib side was indicative of the slanted games they play.

Enjoy your spoon-fed Faux News type right-wing echo-chamber.

Edited to add:

This is the only way to answer some of the questions posed:

1) I did nothing to warrant the banishment, it's political.

2) It's the router that's blocked but considering all the nonsense right-wing games being played by those running the site...it's just not worth it to bypass the banishment block.

3) The moron stalkers from MT contemplating a visit will be considered a threat and can expect to have a bad day if they act upon those idiotic thoughts.

bumfunkegypt@live.com

Frenchfry

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 39903
Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #36 on: July 06, 2012, 04:59:53 PM »

Causes
A blanket around the Earth


Most climate scientists agree the main cause of the current global warming trend is human expansion of the "greenhouse effect" -- warming that results when the atmosphere traps heat radiating from Earth toward space.

Certain gases in the atmosphere block heat from escaping. Long-lived gases, remaining semi-permanently in the atmosphere, which do not respond physically or chemically to changes in temperature are described as "forcing" climate change whereas gases, such as water, which respond physically or chemically to changes in temperature are seen as "feedbacks."

Gases that contribute to the greenhouse effect include:

    Water vapor. The most abundant greenhouse gas, but importantly, it acts as a feedback to the climate. Water vapor increases as the Earth's atmosphere warms, but so does the possibility of clouds and precipitation, making these some of the most important feedback mechanisms to the greenhouse effect.

    Carbon dioxide (CO2). A minor but very important component of the atmosphere, carbon dioxide is released through natural processes such as respiration and volcano eruptions and through human activities such as deforestation, land use changes, and burning fossil fuels. Humans have increased atmospheric CO2 concentration by a third since the Industrial Revolution began. This is the most important long-lived "forcing" of climate change.

    Methane. A hydrocarbon gas produced both through natural sources and human activities, including the decomposition of wastes in landfills, agriculture, and especially rice cultivation, as well as ruminant digestion and manure management associated with domestic livestock. On a molecule-for-molecule basis, methane is a far more active greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide, but also one which is much less abundant in the atmosphere.

    Nitrous oxide. A powerful greenhouse gas produced by soil cultivation practices, especially the use of commercial and organic fertilizers, fossil fuel combustion, nitric acid production, and biomass burning.

    Chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs). Synthetic compounds of entirely of industrial origin used in a number of applications, but now largely regulated in production and release to the atmosphere by international agreement for their ability to contribute to destruction of the ozone layer. They are also greenhouse gases .

On Earth, human activities are changing the natural greenhouse. Over the last century the burning of fossil fuels like coal and oil has increased the concentration of atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2). This happens because the coal or oil burning process combines carbon with oxygen in the air to make CO2. To a lesser extent, the clearing of land for agriculture, industry, and other human activities have increased concentrations of greenhouse gases.

The consequences of changing the natural atmospheric greenhouse are difficult to predict, but certain effects seem likely:

    On average, Earth will become warmer. Some regions may welcome warmer temperatures, but others may not.

    Warmer conditions will probably lead to more evaporation and precipitation overall, but individual regions will vary, some becoming wetter and others dryer.

    A stronger greenhouse effect will warm the oceans and partially melt glaciers and other ice, increasing sea level. Ocean water also will expand if it warms, contributing further to sea level rise.

    Meanwhile, some crops and other plants may respond favorably to increased atmospheric CO2, growing more vigorously and using water more efficiently. At the same time, higher temperatures and shifting climate patterns may change the areas where crops grow best and affect the makeup of natural plant communities.

The role of human activity

In its recently released Fourth Assessment Report, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, a group of 1,300 independent scientific experts from countries all over the world under the auspices of the United Nations, concluded there's a more than 90 percent probability that human activities over the past 250 years have warmed our planet.

The industrial activities that our modern civilization depends upon have raised atmospheric carbon dioxide levels from 280 parts per million to 379 parts per million in the last 150 years. The panel also concluded there's a better than 90 percent probability that human-produced greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide, methane and nitrous oxide have caused much of the observed increase in Earth's temperatures over the past 50 years.

They said the rate of increase in global warming due to these gases is very likely to be unprecedented within the past 10,000 years or more. The panel's full Summary for Policymakers report is online at http://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-report/ar4/syr/ar4_syr_spm.pdf.

Solar irradiance

It's reasonable to assume that changes in the sun's energy output would cause the climate to change, since the sun is the fundamental source of energy that drives our climate system.

Indeed, studies show that solar variability has played a role in past climate changes. For example, a decrease in solar activity is thought to have triggered the Little Ice Age between approximately 1650 and 1850, when Greenland was largely cut off by ice from 1410 to the 1720s and glaciers advanced in the Alps.

But several lines of evidence show that current global warming cannot be explained by changes in energy from the sun:

    Since 1750, the average amount of energy coming from the Sun either remained constant or increased slightly.

    If the warming were caused by a more active sun, then scientists would expect to see warmer temperatures in all layers of the atmosphere. Instead, they have observed a cooling in the upper atmosphere, and a warming at the surface and in the lower parts of the atmosphere. That's because greenhouse gasses are trapping heat in the lower atmosphere.

    Climate models that include solar irradiance changes can’t reproduce the observed temperature trend over the past century or more without including a rise in greenhouse gases.
http://climate.nasa.gov/causes/
Logged
This is what I see when I visit:

"Sorry Frenchfry, you are banned from posting and sending personal messages on this forum.
This ban is not set to expire."

No emails, no warnings, no communication whatsoever...just that ban

May be what happened to the other libs as well.

I guess disabling the report to admin link only on the lib side was indicative of the slanted games they play.

Enjoy your spoon-fed Faux News type right-wing echo-chamber.

Edited to add:

This is the only way to answer some of the questions posed:

1) I did nothing to warrant the banishment, it's political.

2) It's the router that's blocked but considering all the nonsense right-wing games being played by those running the site...it's just not worth it to bypass the banishment block.

3) The moron stalkers from MT contemplating a visit will be considered a threat and can expect to have a bad day if they act upon those idiotic thoughts.

bumfunkegypt@live.com

Tiny

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5948
  • Aw...Nuts
Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #37 on: July 06, 2012, 06:28:55 PM »

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2001/ast05jan_1/

"Mars may once have been a very wet place. A host of clues remain from an earlier era, billions of years ago, hinting that the Red Planet was host to great rivers, lakes and perhaps even an ocean."

Then along came a few billion Martians that started burning coal to make electricity and turned their atmosphere into muck and the planet over heated, turning it into the giant dust ball it is today. Do we want to be next???
Logged
Women should be obscene and not heard.

Ham Radio...the original social network.

Tiny

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5948
  • Aw...Nuts
Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #38 on: July 06, 2012, 06:49:02 PM »

There's more to it than just Co2.

http://www.museum.state.il.us/exhibits/ice_ages/why_glaciations1.html

Variation in the Earth's orbit through time causes changes in the amount and distribution of sunlight (and other solar radiation) reaching the Earth's surface. These changes are thought to affect the development of ice sheets.

Although the idea that variation in the Earth's orbit causes glacial-interglacial cycles originated in the mid 1800s, Milutin Milankovitch first popularized it in about 1920. Although Milankovitch's hypothesis was not widely accepted initially; data collected during the 1970's have generated broad support for it.

Three orbital parameters are especially important in causing ice sheet waxing and waning:

1.Changes in the eccentricity of the Earth's orbit
2.Changes in the tilt of the Earth's axis
3.The precession of the equinoxes

In combination these factors influence the amount and distribution of solar radiation reaching the Earth. Changes vary with both latitude and season. Because of the different periodicities of variation for the three factors, the composite variations in solar radiation are very complex.

Although the connections are not obvious and direct, changes in the amount of solar radiation are thought to drive the growth and melting of major ice sheets. Over the last 750,000 years ice sheets have expanded into the midwestern United States at least 8 major times. The timing of the earlier of these advances is not well known.

Eccentricity

The Earth's orbit around the sun is not a circle, but rather it is an ellipse. The shape of the elliptical orbit, which is measured by its eccentricity, varies from between one and five percent through time.

The eccentricity affects the difference in the amounts of radiation the Earth's surface receives at aphelion and at perihelion. The effect of the radiation variation is to change the seasonal contrast in the northern and southern hemispheres. For example, when the orbit is highly elliptical, one hemisphere will have hot summers and cold winters; the other hemisphere will have warm summers and cool winters. When the orbit is nearly circular, both hemispheres will have similar seasonal contrasts in temperature.

Although the amount of change in radiation is very small (less than 0.2%), it is apparently extremely important in the expansion and melting of ice sheets.

The eccentricity of the Earth's orbit varies in a periodic manner. The primary periodicity is approximately 100,000 years.

Tilt

The Earth's axis is tilted with respect to its orbit around the sun. Today the tilt is approximately 23.5 degrees. The tilt varies from between 21.6 and 24.5 degrees in a periodic manner. A graph of the tilt over the last 750,000 years shows that the dominant period of this variation is approximately 41,000 years.

Changes in the tilt of the Earth's axis cause large changes in the seasonal distribution of radiation at high latitudes and in the length of the winter dark period at the poles. Changes in tilt have very little effect on low latitudes.

The effects of tilt on the amount of solar radiation reaching the Earth are closely linked to the effects of precession. Variation in these two factors cause radiation changes of up to 15% at high latitudes. Radiation variation of this magnitude greatly influences the growth and melting of ice sheets.

Precession of the equinoxes

Twice a year, the equinoxes, the sun is positioned directly over the equator. Currently the equinoxes occur on approximately March 21 and September 21. However, because the Earth's axis of rotation "wobbles" (like a spinning top), the timing of the equinoxes changes . The change in the timing of the equinoxes is known as precession.

Although the timing of the equinoxes is not in itself important in determining climate, the timing of the Earth's aphelion and perihelion also changes. Like the timing of the equinoxes, the timing of the aphelion and perihelion is also affected by the wobble of the axis of rotation.

The changing aphelion and perihelion is important for climate because it affects the seasonal balance of radiation. For example, when perihelion falls in January the northern hemisphere winter and southern hemisphere summer are slightly warmer than the corresponding seasons in the opposite hemispheres.

The aphelion and perihelion change position on the orbit through a cycle of 360 degrees. The cycle has two periods of approximately 19,000 and 23,000 years. Together these combine to produce a generalized periodicity of about 22,000 years.

The effects of precession on the amount of solar radiation reaching the Earth are closely linked to the effects of tilt. Variation in these two factors cause radiation changes of up to 15% at high latitudes. Radiation variation of this magnitude greatly influences the growth and melting of ice sheets.

Logged
Women should be obscene and not heard.

Ham Radio...the original social network.

Professor H

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 21754
Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #39 on: July 06, 2012, 07:16:22 PM »

Its much better to speculate with "estimates" and make up "proxy indicators" than facts
Longer-term estimates of solar irradiance have been made using sunspot records and other so-called “proxy indicators,” such as the amount of carbon in tree rings. The most recent analyses of these proxies indicate that solar irradiance changes cannot plausibly account for more than 10 percent of the 20th century’s warming.

Using records from 1978 til now provides us nothing on a planet that has been in existence for 3.5 to 4.5 billion years 
http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/geotime/age.html

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2001/ast05jan_1/

"Mars may once have been a very wet place. A host of clues remain from an earlier era, billions of years ago, hinting that the Red Planet was host to great rivers, lakes and perhaps even an ocean."

Then along came a few billion Martians that started burning coal to make electricity and turned their atmosphere into muck and the planet over heated, turning it into the giant dust ball it is today. Do we want to be next???

 ;D  sure glad it wasn't the Sun...

Logged
First, it was not a strip bar, it was an erotic club. And second, what can I say? I'm a night owl.
Marion Berry

But we have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.
Nancy Pelosi

jbs49238

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5446
Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #40 on: July 06, 2012, 08:13:06 PM »

I don't usually copy/paste but this is very worth and completely on point.

Here is a link to Dr. Roy Spencer’s website (WARNING HE WORKED FOR NASA) maybe you will listen to his alternate ideas?  Probably not, it just isn’t the cool thing to do.

http://www.drroyspencer.com/

Dr. Spencer provides a 2000 year chart of global temps… been much warmer.

http://www.drroyspencer.com/global-warming-background-articles/2000-years-of-global-temperatures/

This graph shows the average of 18 non-tree ring proxies of temperature from 12 locations around the Northern Hemisphere, published by Craig Loehle in 2007, and later revised in 2008. It clearly shows that natural climate variability happens, and these proxies coincide with known events in human history.
 
Loehle also published in 2008 a paper that described why tree rings can not be trusted as a proxy for past temperature variations. Tree ring data have what is called a “divergence problem” in the late 20th Century where the tree ring data data suggests cooling, when in fact there has been warming. This, by itself, should cast serious doubt on whether tree ring reconstructions (such as Michael Mann’s famous “hockey stick” curve) can be used to estimate past global temperature variability.

Here is a link to the study described above:

http://climateaudit.org/2008/11/30/criag-loehle-on-the-divergence-problem/
Logged

Baby Hitler

  • Guest
Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #41 on: July 07, 2012, 01:04:33 AM »

There's more to it than just Co2.
There certainly is.

Please note that during this entire thread, not once have I stated any one reason for the climate change, I have merely continued to point out that our world is, in fact, getting warmer, and has continued to do so for the last few decades.

There are indeed many factors that could be contributing to the continuing escalation of world temperatures, CO2 is a very likely culprit, but to deny that the world temperatures, as a whole, are increasing, is to deny physical evidence itself.
Logged

jbs49238

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5446
Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #42 on: July 07, 2012, 01:48:19 AM »

There certainly is.

Please note that during this entire thread, not once have I stated any one reason for the climate change, I have merely continued to point out that our world is, in fact, getting warmer, and has continued to do so for the last few decades.

There are indeed many factors that could be contributing to the continuing escalation of world temperatures, CO2 is a very likely culprit, but to deny that the world temperatures, as a whole, are increasing, is to deny physical evidence itself.

I do not think anyone has denied it in this thread at any point FB.  It is the Holy Hell the end of the world is around the corner BS that some of us have an issue with.  And the "you are ignorant if you don't believe it" attitude that comes with it is just too much to ignore.

Did you read Dr. Spencers work at all?  Did you catch the part about it taking us burning 5 years of fossil fuel consumption to increase the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere by just 1 part per 100,000.  Is it something to consider?  Sure, why not try to keep that number from climbing?  But to suggest that we are saturating the atmosphere with CO2 is ludicrous, and since CO2 is the big bad elephant in the room.....  Well you get the idea.  Temperatures have been much higher, and at times when humans were not pumping all that CO2 into the air, so why is it ONLY NOW that CO2 is the reason?

I don't deny the earth is warming right now, never have, however I do not find credible proof to indicate that human consumption of fossil fuel is the MAIN reason.  We have gone through a hotter cycle before (in documented times) what cuased it then, and just maybe could it be a contributing factor now?

Climate change science was born to PROVE to the government that it will be OK to put a punitive tax on fossil fuel consumption without any REAL evidence that CO2 emissions are the reason for global warming.  Climate change science is the framework for energy taxation, and the government will stifle alternative energy at every turn and at all costs so they can get the most GREENHOUSE TAX out of you as possible.
Logged

Professor H

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 21754
Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #43 on: July 07, 2012, 07:14:51 AM »

There certainly is.

Please note that during this entire thread, not once have I stated any one reason for the climate change, I have merely continued to point out that our world is, in fact, getting warmer, and has continued to do so for the last few decades.

There are indeed many factors that could be contributing to the continuing escalation of world temperatures, CO2 is a very likely culprit, but to deny that the world temperatures, as a whole, are increasing, is to deny physical evidence itself.


Any factors that we all can come up with are likely not "controllable" ones, - at least to the extent that it would make a difference. (mass/volume)
Sit back and enjoy the warmth - as years from now it will swing back to the cooler side...  :)

Note: I didn't say don't stop attempts to keep pollution down, but I don't think we need to panic to the point of letting the Government use their TAX powers to start getting involved.   The US is past it's prime "Pollution" as our regulations have improved over years - as well as our industry moving to overseas where they don't regulate.
 
A surprise find emerged when climate was factored in: The U.S. was no longer among the world's worst CO2 emitters.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/30/polluting-countries-ranked-carbon-dioxide-climate_n_1638650.html

We can't regulate or tax the biggest polluting countries - like China, India...  so hopefully all the junk science really is just that - Junk to keep researchers and their assistants busy, and we really are on a billion year cycle of warm/cool on this planet.

Logged
First, it was not a strip bar, it was an erotic club. And second, what can I say? I'm a night owl.
Marion Berry

But we have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.
Nancy Pelosi

Baby Hitler

  • Guest
Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #44 on: July 07, 2012, 11:28:26 AM »

You both state that it is "Junk" science and that governments around the world are using it to increase taxes. It has to be governments around the world mind you, because scientists around the world are coming to the same conclusions.

Hey, that's all fine and dandy, and I'll even agree with it, IF, you agree that the scientists that you back, could in fact be shills of the Oil and Coal industry, and that THEY are being financed to promote increased Carbon dioxide as the best thing since the extinction of the dinosaurs. But it sure does sound like big business to me, you know, blame the government for everything?

Oh, and Kudos to you JBS, for at first denigrating NASA, you know, the "Space People", then, turning around and lauding the guy that backs your position as a former NASA climatologist.

By the way, the increased Carbon Dioxide in the atmosphere, does more than just increase temperatures, it also acidifies the oceans, and while that only has had just some impact as of recent, the fact that the oceans acidity has jumped up 6% in the last 15 years, and is expected to continue to rise at an exponential rate.

But I digress.

It is clear that we will each pick who we want to believe.

I believe that there is something that we can do about it, but we won't, because the people with all the money, (i.e. big business) will continue to tell us that it's not their fault, and that it's the government trying to make off with our money again.

While you believe that there isn't anything we can do about it, and that the oil companies and coal industries are looking out for our best interests, by making sure that they, so therefore in turn we, don't have to pay more taxes.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 122   Go Up