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blue2

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Re: Was there a 2nd shooter in Las Vegas?
« Reply #90 on: October 11, 2017, 10:29:58 AM »

I understand all the confusion around what happened and when.  Everyone seems to want to be the one with all the answers..They take what they hear and run with it.  I would guess it takes days to review everything and put together the timeline.
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BigRedDog

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Re: Was there a 2nd shooter in Las Vegas?
« Reply #91 on: October 11, 2017, 10:37:41 AM »

I understand all the confusion around what happened and when.  Everyone seems to want to be the one with all the answers..They take what they hear and run with it.  I would guess it takes days to review everything and put together the timeline.

I still see 'new' revelations on the JFK assassination...   some are somewhat factual due to new technology...

others are just fodder to get you to read an article.  I'm guessing this shooting will probably be under 'scrutiny' for decades and that not everyone is ever going to agree with the findings!

Some of the 'theories' I've seen are so far off the wall they go beyond common sense...

and some others make a lot of sense.  I'm not posting links or commenting at this point...

read 'em and make up your own mind. 

The biggest thing is try to leave your politics out of your reviews...   some of the theories are so far left or so far right they should fall right off the wall anyway.

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Professor H

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Re: Was there a 2nd shooter in Las Vegas?
« Reply #92 on: October 11, 2017, 11:22:04 AM »

Guard shot first -   before the public -  yet didn't contact anyone to tell the floor room he was on?
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blue2

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Re: Was there a 2nd shooter in Las Vegas?
« Reply #93 on: October 11, 2017, 03:43:57 PM »

Wasn't he able to call?  Can't imagine a guard without a phone.  What about using fire alarm??
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excelsior

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Re: Was there a 2nd shooter in Las Vegas?
« Reply #94 on: October 11, 2017, 04:59:13 PM »

Wasn't he able to call?  Can't imagine a guard without a phone.  What about using fire alarm??


Police reported yesterday that the security guard both called and radioed to alert the hotel team:

“He called it in before” the attack began, possibly using a hallway phone to contact hotel security, Clark County Assistant Sheriff Tom Roberts told The Times in an interview. “He manually called down and he used his radio to call. … That’s what we were briefed this morning.”

Roberts said he didn’t know precisely what time Campos called in his own shooting before the assault on the concert began, or whether the hotel immediately passed the information to police.

“We just don’t know how long it took him to call. He’s getting shot at, he’s running, he’s getting shot, he finds some cover, that’s when he starts calling in,” Roberts said.

A spokeswoman for the company that owns Mandalay Bay seemed to dispute the police timeline given to The Times on Tuesday but did not explain why.

“This remains an ongoing investigation with a lot of moving parts. As evidenced by law enforcement briefings over the past week, many facts are still unverified and continue to change as events are under review,” MGM Resorts International spokeswoman Debra DeShong said in a statement. “We cannot be certain about the most recent timeline that has been communicated publicly, and we believe what is currently being expressed may not be accurate.”

DeShong added, “It is not appropriate for us to comment further at this time on what remains an open matter for law enforcement.”


http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-las-vegas-guard-20171010-story.html
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blue2

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Re: Was there a 2nd shooter in Las Vegas?
« Reply #95 on: October 11, 2017, 05:48:56 PM »

Keep hearing 6 mins elapsed between the guard being shot and when the gunman starting shooting people at the concert..  I imagine the hotel guard took some time to ensure he was out of danger before he called anyone..
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BigRedDog

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Re: Was there a 2nd shooter in Las Vegas?
« Reply #96 on: October 11, 2017, 09:00:05 PM »

I read an article on my phone today.  It might have been on AOL News.  The hotel engineer (whatever that is) was also shot at during the initial rounds fired down the hall.  That is literally the first time I've heard anything about an engineer being involved.  Apparently he was being shot at while the security guard was being shot.  Seems to be a lot of confusion on the info that is coming out of the hotel and their staff. 

I'm curious if the hotel security team (a hotel that big had to have more than one active security guard on duty I would think) keeps a recording of their staff's radio calls similar to what central dispatch does.  I have no idea if a private business is required to keep one or not. 

Anyway, if there is a backup then investigators should be able to compare the timeframe between the hotel tape and the central dispatch tape and know to the 10th of a second how much difference there is between the calls.  Without a recording to go from then it's anyone's guess.  I can realistically see it taking a couple of minutes depending on who was on the radio desk when the security guard called downstairs.  That person may have had to get permission to call or pass the info along to a person that had the authority to call.  And if the shooting outside had started then it's entirely possible that central dispatch was so overwhelmed with phone calls that they might not have been able to answer the hotels call for 3-4-5 or maybe even '6' minutes!!!  Although I know the call is recorded I doubt that anything records how many times the phone rings before it is answered by an 911 operator.

Don't make too much out of this 'big gap'...   it might not have been as long as many think and there might have been a very good reason it took so long.
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blue2

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Re: Was there a 2nd shooter in Las Vegas?
« Reply #97 on: October 11, 2017, 09:28:13 PM »

I think some people are trying to insinuate that the hotel is incompetent and if they reacted quicker maybe nobody would have been shot other than the hotel guys.
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BigRedDog

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Re: Was there a 2nd shooter in Las Vegas?
« Reply #98 on: October 12, 2017, 09:37:53 AM »

I think some people are trying to insinuate that the hotel is incompetent and if they reacted quicker maybe nobody would have been shot other than the hotel guys.

I'm sure the hotel has a full legal team working behind the scenes to try to minimize the legal fallout...   there are going to be lots of lawsuits...   I think that is a given in today's society.  At this point the hotel probably has by far the deepest pockets so they will be the prime target.


This is not the same article I saw that I mentioned reading on my phone but it's what I could find to post.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/worker-warned-hotel-before-las-vegas-shooter-opened-fire-on-crowd/
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excelsior

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Re: Was there a 2nd shooter in Las Vegas?
« Reply #99 on: October 12, 2017, 02:32:05 PM »


This behavior is inexcusable.

Tomorrow's news:   Mandalay Bay resort files for bankruptcy.   



Mandalay Bay staff did not call Las Vegas police until mass shooter Stephen Paddock had already begun firing on concertgoers, a source who has reviewed the records told ABC News Wednesday.

That means the hotel did not call police when security guard Jesus Campos first reported that someone was shooting on the 32nd floor, or when building engineer Stephen Schuck also internally reported someone was firing at him on the same floor.



http://abc7chicago.com/source-mandalay-bay-did-not-call-police-until-shooter-began-firing-on-crowd/2521753/
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blue2

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Re: Was there a 2nd shooter in Las Vegas?
« Reply #100 on: October 12, 2017, 03:31:04 PM »

Criminal defense lawyers are in a slim pool with politicians. How the hell is the Vegas police force going to make their way from wherever they are to the 32nd floor in 5 mins?
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SidecarFlip

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Re: Was there a 2nd shooter in Las Vegas?
« Reply #101 on: October 12, 2017, 04:04:41 PM »

Can I sue too?  I need some extra money.
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BigRedDog

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Re: Was there a 2nd shooter in Las Vegas?
« Reply #102 on: October 12, 2017, 07:03:47 PM »

Can I sue too?  I need some extra money.

Of course you can sue...   it's the constitutional right of each and every one of us to be able to sue for just about anything!

Now, in this particular situation I'm guessing that the attorney you hire is going to be the only person that is going to end up with any 'extra' money ;) ;) ;)

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BigRedDog

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Re: Was there a 2nd shooter in Las Vegas?
« Reply #103 on: October 12, 2017, 07:16:21 PM »

Criminal defense lawyers are in a slim pool with politicians. How the hell is the Vegas police force going to make their way from wherever they are to the 32nd floor in 5 mins?
Actually, some of the very worst politicians were (are) lawyers!!!

Maybe, on a long shot if one or two of the local LE officers maybe happened to be driving by or even sitting in the parking lot of the hotel then maybe, just maybe, they could have gotten the dispatch and made it inside and gotten to the 32nd floor on the elevator...  not sure what LE procedure is in using an elevator in that scenario though.  So, now you've got one or two street patrol officers with sidearms and possibly a riot shotgun...   not a real good matchup against the multiple weapons the shooter had in the room.

However, we know that it wasn't patrol officers who made the entry to the room.  It was probably some kind of a swat team since we know from very early on that they used an explosive device (go back and check one of my early posts where I mentioned it was possibly just some C-4 plastic explosive.  Most cities don't have a full swat team just sitting around waiting for a call but rather they have to be paged and / or dispatched and then respond to the scene.  That could easily be another 15 minutes or even longer depending on a lot of variables. 

I suppose if maybe the local swat team was having a meeting on the 2nd or 3rd floor they maybe could get their act together and make it up to the 32nd floor in 5 minutes...  but the odds are against that one!!!
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blue2

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Re: Was there a 2nd shooter in Las Vegas?
« Reply #104 on: October 12, 2017, 07:21:01 PM »

just seems far fetched to think a call to 911 could have averted the shooting at the concert.
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