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BigRedDog

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Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
« Reply #210 on: June 05, 2018, 09:55:30 AM »

The good news is they'll be replacing the 'old' pipes...

the bad news is they will still be piping oil through a very sensitive area >:( >:( >:(

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/06/05/michigan-utility-corridor-line-5/670067002/
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SidecarFlip

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Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
« Reply #211 on: June 05, 2018, 11:44:03 AM »

Actually, a tunnel housing multiple utilities isn't a bad idea and tunnel boring equipment is pretty advanced today.  My question would be about a tunnel carrying both flammable liquids and gasses sharing space with high voltage power transmission lines.  Electricity and flammable stuff don't mix well.

If it was a multiple use tunnel, all the parties using it could share the cost of construction which means we (citizens) wouldn't be on the hook for anything.  We are on the 'hook' for enough now (MSU comes to mind right away).... ;D

I didn't see where any mention of replacing any pipes though,  Maybe I missed that part.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2018, 11:45:52 AM by SidecarFlip »
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BigRedDog

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Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
« Reply #212 on: June 06, 2018, 09:34:37 AM »

Actually, a tunnel housing multiple utilities isn't a bad idea and tunnel boring equipment is pretty advanced today.  My question would be about a tunnel carrying both flammable liquids and gasses sharing space with high voltage power transmission lines.  Electricity and flammable stuff don't mix well.

If it was a multiple use tunnel, all the parties using it could share the cost of construction which means we (citizens) wouldn't be on the hook for anything.  We are on the 'hook' for enough now (MSU comes to mind right away).... ;D

I didn't see where any mention of replacing any pipes though,  Maybe I missed that part.

I doubt they'll move the old pipes into the new tunnel.  That would take them months at the very least. 

They'll put in the tunnel and then put in new pipes or maybe even a single pipe.  The twin pipes on line 5 are only there at the straits.  Then when everything is all done they'll just throw a valve and have a very, very short interruption of service.  Pipelines are money makers and time is money to them. 
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Maverick

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Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
« Reply #213 on: June 06, 2018, 12:50:57 PM »

It would have to be one hell of a tunnel. To be practical it would have to be wide enough to service anything installed in it. I envision it also being big enough to drive service equipment thru it for inspections, maintenance etc.  At the least it would have to be wide enough for separation between the utilities. I don't believe anything would be approved without significant isolation distances between say natural gas pipes and high voltage power lines. Much less the isolation a fiber optic cable needs from a power line.
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SidecarFlip

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Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
« Reply #214 on: June 07, 2018, 09:46:06 AM »

Maybe they could do a tunnel like the Detroit/Windsor tunnel and run non commercial traffic through it too.  That would eliminate issues for those who are scared of traversing the Mac.

Of course unlike the D/W tunnel, no leaks...lol
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BigRedDog

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Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
« Reply #215 on: June 13, 2018, 09:00:01 AM »

It would have to be one hell of a tunnel. To be practical it would have to be wide enough to service anything installed in it. I envision it also being big enough to drive service equipment thru it for inspections, maintenance etc.  At the least it would have to be wide enough for separation between the utilities. I don't believe anything would be approved without significant isolation distances between say natural gas pipes and high voltage power lines. Much less the isolation a fiber optic cable needs from a power line.

The current pipelines are 16' and 20" it seems like.  The only stretch of line 5 that is 'siamesed' like this is this stretch under the Straits. 

Even if they went to a 42" pipe that wouldn't be too big.  Another few feet to give room for someone to walk and work on it.  A second parallel tunnel for the electric cables.  They appear to be maybe 5-6" each but if they didn't have to be waterproofed maybe they could be smaller.

Maybe they could do a tunnel like the Detroit/Windsor tunnel and run non commercial traffic through it too.  That would eliminate issues for those who are scared of traversing the Mac.

Of course unlike the D/W tunnel, no leaks...lol

The only issue with that is then the two utility companies would want the Michigan taxpayers to pick up the majority of the cost for the tunnel. 
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BigRedDog

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Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
« Reply #216 on: June 16, 2018, 08:57:00 AM »

More on the proposed tunnel under the straits. 

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/06/15/enbridge-pipeline-straits-mackinac/705808002/

I saw another article yesterday that had a nice sketch of the cross section of the tunnel.  I think I left it open on my desktop computer.
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BigRedDog

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Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
« Reply #217 on: June 16, 2018, 09:22:51 AM »

I switched machines and found it right away.

Scroll down and there are a couple of videos. 

One is a fairly typical boring machine that progresses about 40 feet a day and encases the tunnel in concrete. 

The second video is from Enbridge and it's their 'proposal' to dig a trench and then drag the double walled pipe across the straits and once it's in place cover it up with various layers of material.  A few proposed covering methods are included.

Way back when this first started the 'pipe within a pipe' made the most sense to me.  In the event of the internal pipe leaking it would be contained (at least temporarily) and would make monitoring a lot easier. 

With the tunnel they could send people through to monitor the exterior of the pipe and with the dual pipe they would still have to rely on a dive team or camera of some sort.

http://upnorthlive.com/news/local/report-tunnel-trench-offer-options-for-replacing-pipeline
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SidecarFlip

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Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
« Reply #218 on: June 16, 2018, 02:36:02 PM »

The current pipelines are 16' and 20" it seems like.  The only stretch of line 5 that is 'siamesed' like this is this stretch under the Straits. 

Even if they went to a 42" pipe that wouldn't be too big.  Another few feet to give room for someone to walk and work on it.  A second parallel tunnel for the electric cables.  They appear to be maybe 5-6" each but if they didn't have to be waterproofed maybe they could be smaller.

The only issue with that is then the two utility companies would want the Michigan taxpayers to pick up the majority of the cost for the tunnel.

Maybe with the electric but Enbridge..That petroleum does nothing for Michigan at all,  Goes to Canada (Sarnia).
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SidecarFlip

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Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
« Reply #219 on: June 16, 2018, 02:37:47 PM »

Big front page artcle in the Adrian Telegram today about Line 5.  Nothing at all in the MN (and it was an AP story), the crack reporters at the MN must be sleeping.
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