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Categories => Religion & Philosophy => Topic started by: Pax on November 11, 2008, 04:10:20 PM

Title: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on November 11, 2008, 04:10:20 PM
http://monroenews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081111/NEWS01/111119982/-1/NEWS

Galatians 6,8
For what things a man shall sow, those also shall he reap. For he that soweth in his flesh, of the flesh also shall reap corruption. But he that soweth in the spirit, of the spirit shall reap life everlasting.

Thousands of Novus Ordo catholic churches are being sold to protestant sects and even non-christian organizations.  They're closing their schools for lack of funds and enrollment.  They aren't capable of replacing their priests, their nuns and other religious.  They are finally reaping that which was sown by John XXIII and Paul VI at the demonic Vatican II, with Ratzinger presiding over the dissipation at present.

Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Mike Ingels on November 11, 2008, 04:31:00 PM
Yup.  Let's turn that priest back around and make him speak Latin again.  That'll bring the parishoners back.

It is time to stop the left and right slugfest within the church.  Both sides have a right to be in the church.

What we truly need is more transparency.  Catholics in the pews need to see diocesan budgets.

And talented and faithful lay Catholics need to play a larger role in church governance.  The idea that a priest or bishop can be an accountant, teacher, human resources manager, facilities manager, theologian, lawyer, public relations rep and counselor at the same time is archaic.

Let the lay Catholic accountants keep the books.  Let the Catholic writers create the papers and web sites.  Turn over fundraising to talented lay capital campaign managers.  And let's allow the priests to minister to the sacraments.
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on November 11, 2008, 05:06:52 PM
Yup.  Let's turn that priest back around and make him speak Latin again.  That'll bring the parishoners back.

Ah.  You'd rather have a ringleader ala BT Barnum up on your "altar" instead of a priest worshipping God?  That's exactly what they have: the novus ordo churches have replaced the worship of God as it was done for nearly 2000 years with the new-fangled cult-of-man and they're dying because of it.  Good riddance.
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: T-M-T on November 11, 2008, 05:22:50 PM
Ah.  You'd rather have a ringleader ala BT Barnum up on your "altar" instead of a priest worshipping God?  That's exactly what they have: the novus ordo churches have replaced the worship of God as it was done for nearly 2000 years with the new-fangled cult-of-man and they're dying because of it.  Good riddance.

And Ford is in financial trouble because they stopped building the Pinto.
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: gefiltefish on November 12, 2008, 09:27:36 PM
Yup.  Let's turn that priest back around and make him speak Latin again.  That'll bring the parishoners back.

It is time to stop the left and right slugfest within the church.  Both sides have a right to be in the church.

What we truly need is more transparency.  Catholics in the pews need to see diocesan budgets.

And talented and faithful lay Catholics need to play a larger role in church governance.  The idea that a priest or bishop can be an accountant, teacher, human resources manager, facilities manager, theologian, lawyer, public relations rep and counselor at the same time is archaic.

Let the lay Catholic accountants keep the books.  Let the Catholic writers create the papers and web sites.  Turn over fundraising to talented lay capital campaign managers.  And let's allow the priests to minister to the sacraments.

You're right on point Mike!

Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: gefiltefish on November 12, 2008, 09:31:22 PM
Ah.  You'd rather have a ringleader ala BT Barnum up on your "altar" instead of a priest worshipping God?  That's exactly what they have: the novus ordo churches have replaced the worship of God as it was done for nearly 2000 years with the new-fangled cult-of-man and they're dying because of it.  Good riddance.

Carefull; that is way too simplistic of a rationale for why the Roman Catholic Church is "dying" (as you state it).  Also; be carefull before you give the euology for the Roman Catholic chrurch.  While it might be loosing members (most "mainstream" churches are), the church is far from dead.
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: ell on November 12, 2008, 09:41:15 PM
Yup.  Let's turn that priest back around and make him speak Latin again.  That'll bring the parishoners back.

It is time to stop the left and right slugfest within the church.  Both sides have a right to be in the church.

What we truly need is more transparency.  Catholics in the pews need to see diocesan budgets.

And talented and faithful lay Catholics need to play a larger role in church governance.  The idea that a priest or bishop can be an accountant, teacher, human resources manager, facilities manager, theologian, lawyer, public relations rep and counselor at the same time is archaic.

Let the lay Catholic accountants keep the books.  Let the Catholic writers create the papers and web sites.  Turn over fundraising to talented lay capital campaign managers.  And let's allow the priests to minister to the sacraments.

I think the Catholics and the Protestants could learn a lot from each other Mike. But then again, different protestant denominations function differently.  I can only speak about my denomination.  Our pastor is an employee of the local congregation.  We hire, we can fire.  The pastor is not a voting member of the congregation.  The pastor is forbidden to speak politics from the pulpit.  The pastor does not handle the money.  I will admit I don't know alot about the Catholic church.  My sore spot is not being able to participate in communion at a Catholic chuch, whereas my church invites all believers to the table.
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on November 13, 2008, 09:00:08 AM
Carefull; that is way too simplistic of a rationale for why the Roman Catholic Church is "dying" (as you state it).  Also; be carefull before you give the euology for the Roman Catholic chrurch. 

Even simpletons see the new "church" has no redeeming value hence they stay away in droves.  Before Vatican II the churches were full, the seminaries and schools were full, the churches' coffers were full, post-Vatican II "catholic" churches are bare gymnasiums and meeting halls not at all unlike any of the protestant sects they are attemptiing to emulate: ecumenism will put that beast out of its misery while a remnant of the true Catholic Church survives it.  Just as it is written...
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: the nosh on November 13, 2008, 09:05:53 AM
i prefered the mass to be in latin. more mysterious that way!  ;)
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on November 13, 2008, 10:38:35 AM
For those who seek it, a real Catholic mass is still available:

http://www.traditio.com/nat.htm
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: mohamed_kalij on November 13, 2008, 12:27:58 PM
Even simpletons see the new "church" has no redeeming value hence they stay away in droves.  Before Vatican II the churches were full, the seminaries and schools were full, the churches' coffers were full, post-Vatican II "catholic" churches are bare gymnasiums and meeting halls not at all unlike any of the protestant sects they are attemptiing to emulate: ecumenism will put that beast out of its misery while a remnant of the true Catholic Church survives it.  Just as it is written...

Death to the non-believers!! What? We can't kill them? It is not what jesus would do? Oh. Then bankruptcy to the non-believers!!
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Mike Ingels on November 13, 2008, 04:25:36 PM
Balbuscere!

I do actually like Latin.  I sang in church choirs for about 15 years and some of the most beautiful music around is Latin liturgical music.  And on Holy Thursday, it is deeply meaningful to take part in some of the old Latin rites.

But Latin is a cultural artifact.  Jesus didn't speak it.  The Apostles didn't speak it.  It has nothing to do with the deposit of the faith.  The vernacular is a completely appropriate way to worship.

Personally, one of the best things about the Catholic Church right now is how conflicted it is.  It still does try to stand up for morality.  That is much needed in modern society.  But it is flexible enough to also support unionizing immigrant workers in poor Chicago factories and vibrant and edgy campus parishes in places like Ann Arbor.

The correct answer for the church is not to sell out to the left or right.  The proper move is to place one foot firmly in both camps and stand up strong.
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on November 13, 2008, 05:09:45 PM
But Latin is a cultural artifact.  Jesus didn't speak it.  The Apostles didn't speak it. 

As Roman citizens [or under Roman jurisdiction anyway] it's out of the realm of reason that Jesus and the Apostles wouldn't know Latin and speak it when necessary.  The Latin language, however, is part of what made Catholicism universal - no matter where in the world a Catholic went he could hear the exact same mass said the exact same way.  Not so with the novus ordo "missae" in the vernacular.
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Aguilera on November 13, 2008, 09:49:15 PM
Honestly, it truely amazes me how many people on this forum, not just this thread, act as if the absolutely HATE Christians or people of faith.  It is kind of scary.  How I mostly celebrate my faith is in small random acts of kindness and helping others.  If that is what people hate, they must be really lonely people.  I guess it would be better if people ran around with no laws, raping and killing daughters, stealing your property, and on simpler terms, just being hateful and without compassion.  Maybe I am just overreacting??   ???
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Mike Ingels on November 13, 2008, 10:34:28 PM
Hey, I just want to thank you, balbuscere.

Your comment made me do a little bit of web surfing on the question about whether Jesus spoke Latin.

And my conclusion is that it is possible that he actually spoke it.  And it seems likely to me that he at least knew a few words.

It's so funny when you hit a little hole in your knowledge.  I've spent countless days and hours thinking about these things and I had never really considered this topic.  VERY INTERESTING.

Anyway, I don't think that it means we should mandate a Latin mass.  But I do want to thank you for shaking up the brain a little bit.
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on November 14, 2008, 12:47:58 PM
...and keep in mind Jesus' uncle, Joseph of Arimathea (sp?!) owned tin mines in Cornwall, the UK.  I've often wondered if, during those years of Jesus' life that aren't recorded in the Bible, he didn't go spend a summer or more with his uncle travelling around to see them?  The locals there would have spoken a form of Gaelic (Brythonic  P-Celtic)  Either way though a multi-lingual Jesus doesn't mean we need a multi-lingual "catholic" church - the Latin wasn't broken, didn't need to be "fixed" by Vatican II...
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on November 16, 2008, 08:24:59 PM
...and Your're Welcome, Mike.  I, too, appreciate someone putting forth a thought or two that makes me put my brain cells to good use... ;)
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on December 05, 2008, 11:51:42 PM
I had the misfortune of going to St. Mary's in Monroe today, for the final send off of an uncle of mine who died a few days ago.  After living in Monroe County for 30 years, off and on, it was my first time actually in that particular "church" and what a confounding experience it was.  The "priest" guy went on and on about how being baptized in the church means a one-way ticket to heaven (just like the baptist preachers used to say when I went to one of those schools.)  I heard the words "risen Christ" and "Christ Risen" more times in that 45 mins? hour? than I had in my entire life before it.
This clueless guy in the purple robes (it's advent, and it was a service-for-the-dead) quoted from the newchurch's booklet which says "Jesus said to his 'friends'... (that's "Disciples" to the rest of us) "...and drink of this, my blood, which will be shed for you and for 'all men,'" instead of "...for many."  He mentioned something about "god" "praying for his church" and I about screamed - since when does "God" need to pray for any damn thing??  He doesn't.  So what "god" they're worshipping there totally evades me.  Jesus never said he was dying "for all" so the robed-dude is a lying piece of caca and the locals just sucked it up. 
The Catholic Church used to sanction the burning of heretics, but newchurch makes them "priests."
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on January 28, 2009, 04:11:34 PM
A few days ago we buried the mother of an uncle of mine @ "St. Pius" church in Southgate, the same place we went for my own grandmother's funeral not so long ago.  They played bagpipes for grandma on that day.  Bagpipes.  I love the Bagpipes.  But WTF are bagpipes doing in a supposedly "catholic" church??  First guitar-strumming, Kumbaya-ing "nuns," now bagpipes? 

The Rev. Bishop Williamson has been in the news a lot of late, for two primary reasons:

1) He was ordained a bishop by the late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre of the Society of St. Pius X in 1988 and JP2 threatened all of them with "excommunication" at that time.
2) He has the temerity to speak truth re: the supposed Nazi "holocaust" of Jews during the 1930s & 40s in Europe, where such words are criminal offenses: link follows.

Bishop Richard Williamson - Gas Chambers, Anti-Semitism and the Truth (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6C9BuXe2RM)

Below is the first of a 4-part series of the whos the whats and the whys for Archbishop Lefebvre's creation of the SSPX.  Unfortunately for Catholics the SSPX is now being "incorporated" into the fold of heathen brethren now occupying the Vatican and have lost the bearings the founder of that order set for them.

Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre Speaks -1 of 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nmjBM5QzEw&feature=related)

I was fortunate enough to be confirmed by Archbishop Lefebvre in 1978 in Redford.
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: DeamonCohln on January 29, 2009, 11:26:13 AM
This is about as pointless as arguing over what color God's hat is.


which is not to far from the truth.
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on January 29, 2009, 12:33:37 PM
Then perhaps you should stick to posting where you have something to add to the debate, Deamon?

There are too many pictures, with their accompanying explanations, to comment on here, but suffice it to say that there's nary a Catholic thought, idea, or rite in any one of them:
The Protestant-Masonic-Pagan Nature of the Novus Ordo Service (http://www.traditio.com/nos.htm)
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: DeamonCohln on January 29, 2009, 02:46:00 PM
Then perhaps you should stick to posting where you have something to add to the debate, Deamon?

And give up the lulz. No, I'm fine.
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on February 03, 2009, 01:57:50 PM
Just as the Novus Ordo Seclorum, the New World Order, is diabolically-motivated so were the promulgators of the Novus Ordo Missae, the New Order of the Mass, and its most ardent apologist, Joseph Ratzinger:

Conclusion about Benedict XVI (http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/20_BenedictXVI.pdf) <- link

Quote
Benedict XVI is a manifest heretic. We have proven this without any doubt. He teaches that
Our Lord may not be the Messiah; that the Old Covenant is valid; that Jews and others can be
saved without believing in Christ; that schismatics and Protestants don’t need conversion; that
non-Catholics are not bound to accept Vatican I; that Protestant Monasteries should be formed;
that Protestantism is not even heresy; that Mass is valid without words of consecration; that
infant baptism has no purpose; that Scripture is filled with myths; that the false religion of Islam
is noble; that pagan religions are high; that salvation can be had outside the Church; that Catholic
dogmas need to be purged; that Vatican II rejected Catholic teaching on religious liberty; that the unity of the Church does not exist; and that the Resurrection of the Body will not occur, just to name a few.
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Lethlweapn on February 03, 2009, 06:59:30 PM
Why is it, when I see Novus Ordo, I think Ortho Novum?
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: ShorTea on February 03, 2009, 07:42:08 PM
Why is it, when I see Novus Ordo, I think Ortho Novum?

Ahh, the delicate subliminal message has gotten through! ;D
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Griff on February 03, 2009, 09:26:26 PM
As Roman citizens it's out of the realm of reason that Jesus and the Apostles wouldn't know Latin and speak it when necessary.  The Latin language, however, is part of what made Catholicism universal - no matter where in the world a Catholic went he could hear the exact same mass said the exact same way.  Not so with the novus ordo "missae" in the vernacular.

Careful; you are treading in deep water here. Jesus was NOT citizen of Rome; nor were his disciples. Had the Christ been a citizen, he could have demanded a trial in Rome as Paul did.

You remember that Paul WAS a citizen of Rome, right?

<snip>

The Rev. Bishop Williamson has been in the news a lot of late, for two primary reasons:

1) He was ordained a bishop by the late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre of the Society of St. Pius X in 1988 and JP2 threatened all of them with "excommunication" at that time.
2) He has the temerity to speak truth re: the supposed Nazi "holocaust" of Jews during the 1930s & 40s in Europe, where such words are criminal offenses: link follows.

<snip>


I would like to see the evidence of Williamson's truth... just produce the audio from Churchill, Roosevelt, Eisenhauer, Marshall, DeGualle or any other Allied political or military leader stating that they were part of the cover-up. That it was conspiritorial in nature; bring on your evidence.

Williamson's opinion is just so much dung on the heel of any shoe.
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on February 03, 2009, 11:34:42 PM
Careful; you are treading in deep water here. Jesus was NOT citizen of Rome; nor were his disciples. Had the Christ been a citizen, he could have demanded a trial in Rome as Paul did.
Williamson's opinion is just so much dung on the heel of any shoe.

This thread is about the new-fangled "catholic" church not on the holohoax, which has been covered amply and ad nauseum on another.
Christ and His Disciples were all subject to Roman Law as provincials, if not outright citizens, and the statement that they knew and/or were fluent in the Latin language is valid. 
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Griff on February 04, 2009, 08:22:29 AM
This thread is about the new-fangled "catholic" church not on the holohoax, which has been covered amply and ad nauseum on another.
Christ and His Disciples were all subject to Roman Law as provincials, if not outright citizens, and the statement that they knew and/or were fluent in the Latin language is valid. 

Erich, you were the poster that introduced citizenship.

You were the poster that introduced Williamson.

My request for your first-person evidence still stands.
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on February 04, 2009, 11:26:58 AM
Erich, you were the poster that introduced citizenship.
You were the poster that introduced Williamson.
My request for your first-person evidence still stands.


The statement was exclusive of the point of this thread and I hadn't really given much thought to Jesus' citizenship; I've always merely assumed it was Roman and left it at that.  Thank you for the encouragement to do some research on that assumption, however unrelated:

Here (http://1shortstop.wordpress.com/2008/12/29/ancient-roman-citizenship/) the author breaks down citizenship during Jesus' lifetime into several types and goes on to (somewhat) define each:

Quote
The citizens of Rome were placed into classes. Those classes were Latini, Socii, Provincials, and Peregrini.


This site (http://www.bible-history.com/rome/RomeRoman_Citizenship.htm) gives a different listing for citizenship:

Quote
When Rome conquered a city the defeated people would fall into one of four classes. Citizens, Municipia, Latin Allies, and Italian Allies. Other areas maintained their domestic independence but Rome dictated their foreign policies.


On citizenship:
A brief, unenlightening quote (http://encyclopedia.stateuniversity.com/pages/10018/Herod-Antipas.html) on the matter says "Upon inquiring Jesus' citizenship, Pilate was told that Jesus was a Galilean, thus under Herod's jurisdiction, and so Pilate sends Jesus to Herod."  "Jursidiction" and "citizenship" aren't interchangeable expressions.

After untold hours (on a crappy dial-up PC for the time-being, ugh!) I have been unable to come up with a definitive answer to the citizenship question, and withdraw the original usage of the word "citizen" (of Rome) when referring to Christ as insupportable at present.

The introduction of Williamson was for the sole purpose of highlighting his joyous-reunion (sic) with the heretics now occupying the Vatican, not for his views on the holo-whatever - a topic on which I have nothing further to contribute and which had it's own Monroe Talks Thread (http://monroetalks.com/forum/index.php?topic=12414.0).
(http://www.traditio.com/comment/com0901zf.jpg)

I did, however, manage to find a lot more information on the Linguistics questions discussed earlier in the thread:
Jesus was born during the reign of Herod "the great," the Roman-installed ruler of the vassal state of Palestine, and lived primarily during the reign of his son Herod Antipas.  Jesus' "first" or "native" language was Aramaic, a distinct and separate form of Hebrew, but, depending on which of the various locations he had speaking-opportunities, he would have had to have been fairly fluent in Hebrew (the language of the Synagogues), Greek, and the Latin of the Roman government.  The northern and Galilean areas had been under Greek rule or sphere of influence for centuries and had only then recently seen the ascendancy of the Roman; leading one to believe the everyday language of the locals would have been Greek but that when dealing with the Roman overlords they would have had to have utilized Latin, or had translators to do it for them.  As the New Testament Gospels were all written in Greek, not Aramaic or Hebrew, the Disciples also must have been significantly multi-lingual.  For the mere mortal Disciples and the human-Jesus of that time-period speaking two or more languages would have been quite normal and unremarkable, for the Divine Jesus multi-lingualism would have been a no-brainer. 

[On a related, albeit side note, and perhaps for another thread: "speaking in tongues" means "everyone hears your words in his own language," not the gobble-de-gook the "evangelicals" like to play charades with on their holier-than-thou stages for the awestruck, adoring masses.]

Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on February 04, 2009, 01:33:45 PM
Here (http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/4_Antipopes.pdf) is a listing of the 40+ Anti-popes the Catholic Church had to contend with prior to Vatican II.  What is most surprising to me, on first reading through the list, is the number of times the name "Benedict" occurs:

20. John Mincius (Benedict X), 1058–1059
36. Pedro de Luna (Benedict XIII), antipope of the Avignon line, 1394–1423
40. Bernard Garnier (the first Benedict XIV), antipope of the Avignon line, 1425–c. 1429
41. Jean Carrier (the second Benedict XIV), antipope of the Avignon line, 1430–1437

Elsewhere, the name Benedict IX is listed three separate times as he was deposed twice but regained the papacy after both depositions.

Another anti-pope was the first John XXIII
38. Baldassare Cossa (John XXIII), antipope of the Pisan line, 1410–1415
...and the satanistic Angelo Giuseppe Roncalli  - AKA "Blessed John XXIII" (1958-63) of Vatican II infamy - took the same name.

Montini (AKA "Paul VI") was the last of the five recent anti-popes to bother with a "papal coronation" which included a tiara, the importance of which was discussed here (http://www.dailycatholic.org/issue/05Apr/apr29ed.htm) for those who are curious...

Quote
the release of Benedict's Coat of Arms was the coup de gras - a definite sign that any chances of Benedict XVI returning the conciliar church to the Truths and Traditions of Holy Mother Church were not only slim, but very remote. Yes, those hopes took a severe blow Wednesday with the revealing of his papal coat of arms, or at least they call it a "papal" coat of arms, but the one symbol used by Popes for centuries and synonymous with the Triple Reign or Triregnos has always been the Papal Tiara. Every man since Pope Clement V in the early 1300's who has occupied the Chair has exhibited the tiara in some way on his official coat of arms.

    In retrospect, we should have seen it coming when Paul VI sold his off, John Paul I refused the Papal Coronation or to wear the tiara even though his coat of arms was so traditional. Do you think if John Paul I had the opportunity he'd not do it differently and totally adhere to tradition? And the same for John Paul II who followed suit with ignoring the Papal Coronation, the Solemn Pontifical Oath and the tiara, though he had a semblance of it with sharp streamlined spikes on his coat of arms. But Benedict XVI has scrapped all of those traditions: no Papal Coronation, no Pontifical Oath, no tiara on his head or his coat of arms! Instead we see a modernized miter which gives little evidence of Catholicity in its design though the pallium at the bottom is a "we tried, but couldn't convey any papal identification" effort.
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on February 04, 2009, 02:28:45 PM
The post-concilior newchurch is at the forefront of the move to a world-religion acceptable to the New World Order, working avidly through serpentine schemes such as the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, the World Council of Churches, and the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples not for the return of repentant schismatics and protestants into the Catholic fold, as is the Church's duty, but for the reconstitution of the various "religions" throughout the world into one, vulgar, meaningless mish-mash of humanistic ideology - with its newpope as DiabolicalCheerleader #1.
(http://www.traditio.com/comment/com0902c.jpg)

This article asks the question Traditional Anglican Communion set to Enter Catholic Church? (http://www.catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=31870) <- link

Quote
Reports abound that the Congregation has recommended the creation of a personal prelature as the vehicle through which to receive the members of the Traditional Anglican Communion into full communion with the Roman Catholic Church. The Register contends that an official at the Congregation spoke with their correspondent Edward Pentin today saying,“It’s something that has appeared on the blogosphere and then been reiterated, but the truth is nothing’s been decided.” We set forth our original story below believing that the sources reporting this exciting news and the history of the dialogue support its accuracy.


and then, tripping over himself with ecstatic joy the author says:

Quote
“The Pope is preparing to offer the Traditonal Anglican Communion, a group of half a million dissident Anglicans, its own personal prelature by Rome, according to reports this morning. History may be in the making", reports The Record. "It appears Rome is on the brink of welcoming close to half a million members of the Traditional Anglican Communion into membership of the Roman Catholic Church. Such a move would be the most historic development in Anglican-Catholic relations in the last 500 years. But it may also be a prelude to a much greater influx of Anglicans waiting on the sidelines, pushed too far by the controversy surrounding the consecration of practicing homosexual bishops, women clergy and a host of other issues."


Quote
Some say an announcement could be made soon after Easter this year. Is it true?


Good question...
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Lethlweapn on February 05, 2009, 10:04:14 AM
(http://www.traditio.com/comment/com0902c.jpg)
Is it just me, or does that look like the Emperor from the Star Wars Series?
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on March 21, 2009, 09:09:29 AM
For those who know anything of the occult, Ratzinger clearly shows his affinity for it with his hands:

(http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/Benedict_XVI_Pictures_Miscellany/ratzinger_devil_sign.jpg)

...and how's this one for a mockery of all things actually Catholic, clowns assisting @ the onstage celebration:

(http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/NewMass_pictures/clown_mass_small.jpg)
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on March 27, 2009, 02:47:33 PM
It's not merely coincidence that NewChurch is now bold enough to ape the nonsensical iterations of the globalists' ideology - it's quite clear they are part-and-parcel of the coming New World Order.  Organized Opposition was never so obeisant.  From the IHM "sisters" website:

Quote
"We feel compelled to participate in the shaping of a new world order consonant with gospel values of harmony and unity, peace and justice, and an equitable sharing of the world's resources."

"Compelled?"  By whom?
"Gospel values of harmony and unity?"  Which "gospel" are they referring to?
"Peace and justice?"  "Equitable Sharing?" How do they define "peace", "justice," "equitable" and "sharing?"  I'll bet their "dictionary" has more in common with Black's Law than Webster's.

Quote
"We, as members of the planetary community, recognize and respect the sacredness and interdependence of all creation...

"Planetary community?"  What the hell is that, unless they're extraterrestrial alien life-forms...?
"All creation" is "sacred?"  Last I checked, Satan's minions are part of creation and are anything but "sacred."  Where evil exists it is to be shunned, not "recognized and respected."

Quote
"The IHM Sisters and Associates, impelled by the gospel, stand in solidarity with the people of Haiti, the poorest in the Americas, in their struggle for dignity, life and human rights both in Haiti and in the United States."

"Impelled," yet again, by whose "gospel?" How can "human rights" coexist with man's obligations to God?  They are in opposition to each other and not "complementary."  One must either worship at the altar of man or at the Altar of God.  Where man has exalted himself as the equal of God and slaughtered the children of God without remorse, there can be no righteous solidarity.

Quote
"We urge one another to be conscious of the poverty, hunger and injustice suffered by the great majority of the human family."

"Human family," yet again: nothing about eradicating evil, wherever it exists, only the imaginary "evil" of the Children of God having far superior civilizations than the children of Men have ever had, have now, or will ever have by their own volition.  "Racism" is a sin (against whom or a violation of which of God's Laws they don't say) to be stamped out with an iron boot, but "Feminism" must be hallowed by us all:
Quote
Women and girls are the most affected by hunger and poverty. Traditionally, women bear the primary responsibilities in the most relevant areas - food production, nutrition, family planning, primary health and education. A central component of effective strategy must be the empowerment of women.
We mere mortals are to exalt "woman" as something other than what God created Eve for: a helpmate and companion to her husband, and rearer of his children.

Quote
...ensuring that all people have access to safe and nutritious food...

How is anyone to expect to "ensure safe and nutritious food" globewide without a global governance?  And even with Global Governance such an assurity is absurd on its face.  Are we to "outlaw" poisonous mushrooms?  Are we to feed unrepentent evil-doers so they can continue to multiply beyond nature's allowable limits?

Quote
...white people, who may not see themselves as racist but inherently benefit or gain privilege from a racist society. The continuation of this system harms us as individuals and deprives us of the contributions and experiences that our uniqueness and diversity provide.

"Diversity" is "good," and All Whites are Racist People To Be Destroyed, straight from the Horse's IHMAss.

Quote
...burgeoning international inequality...

They cannot be the "Catholic religious community" they profess to be if they're more concerned with and interested in International Humanism and its self-professed creed of the so-called "equality of men" and the sanctity of HolyMotherEarthCommunitarianism:

Quote
"Convinced that the plight of the Earth is intimately connected to global poverty, violence and oppression, we commit our personal and communal efforts and resources to build sustainable community. This commitment challenges us both to personal transformation and systemic change."

The "church" in Rome and it's multiplicity of "believers" are but willing pawns and faithful servants of their coming "messiah": Anti-Christ.
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on April 01, 2009, 10:13:52 AM
Carleton church burglarized of artifacts (http://www.monroenews.com/article/20090331/NEWS01/703319976/-1/NEWS) <- link

Quote
The Rev. Robert Bauer told Monroe County sheriff's deputies that the safe contained no money. However, it did hold chalices, ciboria and a monstrance, which are considered sacred vessels used for Holy Communion.
Chalices and ciboria are the containers used to hold and distribute consecrated hosts and wine. The monstrance is used to display a consecrated host during prayer services.


NewChurch makes no claims of "consecrating" anything - especially the bread/pizza/crackers or whatever the hell they're using as "host" at any given service/celebration/HoeDown...
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on April 10, 2009, 08:32:18 AM
The w**** of Babylon
The Abomination of Desolation
The End of Days

The Truth about What Really Happened to the Catholic Church after Vatican II (http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/section1.pdf) <- link

Quote
Matthew 24:15 - “When therefore you shall see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place: he that readeth let
him understand.”
Matthew 24:24-25 - “For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Behold I have told it to you, beforehand.”
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on April 14, 2009, 08:35:12 AM
I knew I'd find it somewhere, sometime: confirmation, from one of those involved, that the marxist/communist/satanic elements of the world intentionally infiltrated and gained control of the Catholic church through stealth, patience, and even outright murder - culminating in the "election" of Roncalli/the 2nd John XXIIIrd and his anti-pope successors.

The "Prophecy" of Bella Dodd (http://www.fatimaperspectives.com/cs/perspective235.asp) <- link

Quote
       In light of the current confusion and moral scandal in the Church, it would be well to consider a neglected bit of recent Church history: the public testimony of Bella Dodd, who served as legal counsel to the Communist Party in the United States until her conversion to Catholicism, after which she spent the rest of her life atoning for her role in the communist infiltration of the Catholic Church.


Quote
I listened to that woman for four hours and she had my hair standing on end. Everything she said has been fulfilled to the letter. You would think she was the world's greatest prophet, but she was no prophet. She was merely exposing the step-by-step battle plan of Communist subversion of the Catholic Church. She explained that of all the world's religions, the Catholic Church was the only one feared by the Communists, for it was its only effective opponent. The whole idea was to destroy, not the institution of the Church, but rather the Faith of the people, and even use the institution of the Church, if possible, to destroy the Faith through the promotion of a pseudo-religion: something that resembled Catholicism but was not the real thing. Once the Faith was destroyed, she explained that there would be a guilt complex introduced into the Church…. to label the ‘Church of the past’ as being oppressive, authoritarian, full of prejudices, arrogant in claiming to be the sole possessor of truth, and responsible for the divisions of religious bodies throughout the centuries. This would be necessary in order to shame Church leaders into an ‘openness to the world,’ and to a more flexible attitude toward all religions and philosophies. The Communists would then exploit this openness in order to undermine the Church.


...despite Roncalli, Montini, Luciani and Wojtyła being buried with full masonic, satanic symbolism and regalia NewChurch is planning the latter's "beatification" and everything and everyone truly Catholic are its demons. 

If the upside-down cross on Wojtyla's coffin doesn't jolt your brain, what would?

(http://www.saintpetersbasilica.org/Pics/Press/4-8-05/RTS%204-8-05%20735pm.jpg)
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Kazimer on April 14, 2009, 09:40:40 AM

< snip >

 
([url]http://www.saintpetersbasilica.org/Pics/Press/4-8-05/RTS%204-8-05%20735pm.jpg[/url])



The cross on Pope John Paul II's coffin is upside down - an inverted cross.

While an upside cross can be used as a representation for Satanism, this is not exclusive, and is not the case in this instance.

The cross of Pope John Paul II's casket is called St. Peter's cross.

St. Peter, who had the leadership role of The Apostles, was crucified upside down for his beliefs.

This was done at the request of Peter who believed he  was not worthy to  be crucified in the same way as Jesus.

As Catholics we believe that the Pope is the successor of Peter.

Therefore, the upside down cross is a fitting symbol to be placed on Pope John Paul's casket.

Continuing, the cross is  accompanied by the letter "M" which stands for Pope John Paul's  personal devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary.
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on April 14, 2009, 09:57:17 AM

The cross on Pope John Paul II's coffin is upside down - an inverted cross.

While an upside cross can be used as a representation for Satanism, this is not exclusive, and is not the case in this instance.

As Catholics we believe that the Pope is the successor of Peter.

Therefore, the upside down cross is a fitting symbol to be placed on Pope John Paul's casket.

Continuing, the cross is  accompanied by the letter "M" which stands for Pope John Paul's  personal devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary.

Despite the Vatican's pronouncements on the subject, in Wojtyla's case the upside down cross has nothing to do with St. Peter or his death but a fitting symbol of his "spiritual father" Lucifer; the M is for his beloved communistic masonry, not any "devotion" to the Blessed Virgin.  An openly schismatic heretical man like he cannot be considered Catholic or a legitimate successor-of-Peter Pope by anyone but the blasphemous NewChurch and its adherents.
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Kazimer on April 14, 2009, 10:05:28 AM
Despite the Vatican's pronouncements on the subject, in Wojtyla's case the upside down cross has nothing to do with St. Peter or his death but a fitting symbol of his "spiritual father" Lucifer; the M is for his beloved communistic masonry, not any "devotion" to the Blessed Virgin.  An openly schismatic heretical man like he cannot be considered Catholic or a legitimate successor-of-Peter Pope by anyone but the blasphemous NewChurch and its adherents.

This statement by Pax Gothorum is an egregious falsehood and serves as an example that coincides fully in and with his professed Catholic conspiratorial propaganda assertions and theories.





Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: T-M-T on April 14, 2009, 10:10:07 AM
You are both wrong.  The cross is not upside down.  (FYI: The wide side of the casket is the top.) The markings on the casket are a version of John Paul II's Coat of Arms.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/56/Ioannes_Paulus_IICoAsimple.png/150px-Ioannes_Paulus_IICoAsimple.png)
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Kazimer on April 14, 2009, 10:14:34 AM
You are both wrong.  The cross is not upside down.  (FYI: The wide side of the casket is the top.) The markings on the casket are a version of John Paul II's Coat of Arms.

([url]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/56/Ioannes_Paulus_IICoAsimple.png/150px-Ioannes_Paulus_IICoAsimple.png[/url])


I know of and about Pope John Paul II's Coat of Arms.

Thank you for the perspective that you have provided.
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on April 14, 2009, 10:57:32 AM
Our Church (http://www.ourchurch.com/view/?pageID=177073) <- link
Quote
John Paul prayed with heretics, gave eternal salvation to heretics, make pacts with heretics, defended heretics.

He was masonic in his actions and words so even if we cannot prove he was a member, his deeds convict him of freemasonry and his associations with them and all the enemies of the Roman Catholic Church.

Quote
So Antipope John Paul II has publicly ensured his listeners over and over again that Catholics should not try to convert non-Catholics and that the Catholic Faith is not necessary for attaining salvation.

Pope Pius IX, Nostis et Nobiscum (#10), Dec. 8, 1849: “In particular, ensure that the faithful are deeply and thoroughly convinced of the truth of the doctrine that the Catholic faith is necessary for attaining salvation.”(68)


Quote
On February 28, 1962 the rite of holy orders was changed by John XXIII and his freemason comrade Bugnini, so it means that an ordained priest is not a true priest or it is doubtful. Compare the ritual and words of holy orders to the decree of Trent. But even if form and matter may seem proper what about the intention (substance)... They use other orders and "sacraments" according to Vatican II and the novus ordo. So that tells you if you accept their phony rites, phony bishops, phony priests and "sacraments" you will go to hell.


Ecumenism Papacy Masonry (http://www.orthodoxfaith.com/ecumenism_papacy_masonry.html) <- link

Quote
The extra-Biblical and anti-Christian nature of this fifth column within the Church is patent. It derives its credibility almost entirely from the blind allegiance it commands from Christians duped by usurpers and traitors occupying high ecclesiastical office, and by the tremendous glamour which the media accord it.

Since the great criterion of Jesus Christ for assessing the diabolic or the divine was "by their fruits ye shall know them," we discern that the fruits of today's Protestant and Catholic leaders are mostly rotten in this regard. As such, their actions reveal that they are neither "vicars of Christ," nor His ministers or saints.


Wojtyla rewarded by Freemasonry (http://www.traditioninaction.org/ProgressivistDoc/A_072_JPII_Masonry.htm) <- link

Quote
As the steps of the beatification process for John Paul II are being rushed forward, we thought it would be interesting to contribute to it by reminding the public of an award given to him by the Italian Freemasonry.

The text of the news report speaks for itself regarding how Pope Wojtyla helped to spread the ideals of those enemies of the Catholic Church, and the high esteem they had for him.


Freemasonry (http://religion-cults.com/Secret/Freemasonry/Freemasonry.htm) <- link
(make sure you click on the symbols page)

Horned Hand or The Mano Cornuto (http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Wicca%20&%20Witchcraft/signs_of_satan.htm) <- link
(no "papal" pictures there, but I already included one on this thread)

1 Kings 16,7:
And the Lord said to Samuel: Look not on his countenance, nor on the height of his stature: because I have rejected him, nor do I judge according to the look of man: for man seeth those things that appear, but the Lord beholdeth the heart.
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: ShorTea on April 14, 2009, 12:04:24 PM
You are both wrong.  The cross is not upside down.  (FYI: The wide side of the casket is the top.) The markings on the casket are a version of John Paul II's Coat of Arms.

([url]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/56/Ioannes_Paulus_IICoAsimple.png/150px-Ioannes_Paulus_IICoAsimple.png[/url])


You are saying the photographer was above in a balcony taking the photo, from the head end of the casket, and the candle is on the right hand side of his casket, so the symbol is by his feet? We're sort of looking at it upside down right?
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: T-M-T on April 14, 2009, 12:29:18 PM
You are saying the photographer was above in a balcony taking the photo, from the head end of the casket, and the candle is on the right hand side of his casket, so the symbol is by his feet? We're sort of looking at it upside down right?


Exactly.  Here's another view of it:

(http://logosresourcepages.org/images/MaryCasket.jpg)
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on April 14, 2009, 12:59:10 PM
Nowhere, at no time, in Catholic history has a stand-alone M signified the Mother of God; but it does signify Master Mason:
(http://www.remnantofgod.org/images/oconner1.jpg)

(http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/pga/02700/02796v.jpg)

...with an explanation of the symbols on G. Washington's apron HERE (http://www.pagrandlodge.org/mlam/apron/index.html).

Notice #23 is the Skull and Crossbones (which adorned JPIIs metal coffin) and the trapezoidal shape (http://www.trapezoid.org/) of the wooden coffin figures quite prominently in the satanistic occult symbolism, not Catholic.
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: T-M-T on April 14, 2009, 01:11:43 PM
Nowhere, at no time, in Catholic history has a stand-alone M signified the Mother of God; but it does signify Master Mason:



...with an explanation of the symbols on G. Washington's apron

Notice #23 is the Skull and Crossbones (which adorned JPIIs metal coffin) and the trapezoidal shape ([url]http://www.trapezoid.org/[/url]) of the wooden coffin figures quite prominently in the satanistic occult symbolism, not Catholic.


Ok, it’s official.  You have now passed SPOOKYTOOTH as the most prolific conspiracy theorist on MT.

Funny thing is, SPOOKY actually believes his crazy stuff.  I think you just post this junk to try to get some kind of reaction.
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on April 14, 2009, 01:22:01 PM
From dictionary.reference.com:

the⋅o⋅ry   /ˈθiəri, ˈθɪəri/  <- aren't those thetas cool??
–noun, plural -ries.
1. a coherent group of general propositions used as principles of explanation for a class of phenomena

...according to that definition, I concur, sir.

A website devoted to the late Cardinal Siri, The Pope in Red (http://www.thepopeinred.com/index.htm), has quite an extraordinary tale to tell, especially as it regards the Church since the Fatima warnings of Our Lady and the failure of every pope, valid or otherwise, to reveal the 3rd Secret given to the children there at the time of the Communist Revolution in Russia.
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on April 15, 2009, 03:16:51 PM
Wojtyla seated under an inverted cross:

(http://www.cephasministry.com/popecbs.jpg)
(http://www.cephasministry.com/popesata.jpg)

Bowing his head to be "blessed" by an Indian shaman:
(http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/JPII/jpiifeather.jpg)

Indians joining the charades/celebration:
(http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/JPII/asissi1or2.jpg)
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on November 10, 2009, 08:46:56 PM
It's been a while since I've posted here, but a "headline" today deemed it desirable, for both it's political and religious aspects both:

British bishop 'to go on trial' in Germany over racial hatred (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/6539567/British-bishop-to-go-on-trial-in-Germany-over-racial-hatred.html) <- link

The so-called bishop from the SSPX, Williamson, has been accused of "inciting racial hatred" for saying he didn't believe the Holohoax ever happened.  This is indicative of three wrongs coinciding in one mere thread:
1) holohoax "denial" is criminally sanctioned in every single one of the formerly sovereign "christian" countries of Europe, and
2) the "deniers" can even be tried in absentia, and
3) even the most recent so-called "popes" have anointed "The Holocaust" as a matter of faith for so-called "catholics."
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: TLaitur on November 12, 2009, 08:00:48 AM
It's been a while since I've posted here, but a "headline" today deemed it desirable, for both it's political and religious aspects both:

British bishop 'to go on trial' in Germany over racial hatred ([url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/6539567/British-bishop-to-go-on-trial-in-Germany-over-racial-hatred.html[/url]) <- link

The so-called bishop from the SSPX, Williamson, has been accused of "inciting racial hatred" for saying he didn't believe the Holohoax ever happened.  This is indicative of three wrongs coinciding in one mere thread:
1) holohoax "denial" is criminally sanctioned in every single one of the formerly sovereign "christian" countries of Europe, and
2) the "deniers" can even be tried in absentia, and
3) even the most recent so-called "popes" have anointed "The Holocaust" as a matter of faith for so-called "catholics."



Pax:  I went to the link and did not see the word "holohoax" in the article.  I take it that you believe that the holocaust was a hoax?
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on November 12, 2009, 03:28:48 PM
Whether holohoax "occurred" is no business of the so-called "catholic" church, and yet they've elevated this supposedly-historical "event" into a matter the faithful are supposed to embrace, if not trip over themselves attempting to atone for.  It has absolutely, positively, nothing to do with catholicism but the V2 crowd is obviously more concerned with jewry than their own "christian" sheep. . .  My personal feelings on the historicity of the topic are immaterial: this thread is about the whores in the new Babylon AKA Vatican City who think they're capable of destroying what is truly Catholic by replacing it with something else entirely.  Like Pharisaism.
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: TLaitur on November 12, 2009, 06:40:36 PM
Whether holohoax "occurred" is no business of the so-called "catholic" church, and yet they've elevated this supposedly-historical "event" into a matter the faithful are supposed to embrace, if not trip over themselves attempting to atone for.  It has absolutely, positively, nothing to do with catholicism but the V2 crowd is obviously more concerned with jewry than their own "christian" sheep. . .  My personal feelings on the historicity of the topic are immaterial: this thread is about the whores in the new Babylon AKA Vatican City who think they're capable of destroying what is truly Catholic by replacing it with something else entirely.  Like Pharisaism.



Not to put too fine a point on it; but it must mean a lot to you as that is your word; not mine and not the newspapers.
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on November 12, 2009, 07:59:51 PM
The holo-whatever-the-hell is not the topic of this thread: whether real or imagined, historical or hallucinigenic/schizophrenic.

For some current news, here's but one of the many examples explaining the heresies of the present anti-pope, Ratzinger:
The Amazing Heresies of Benedict XVI (http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/watch_our_videos_4.html) <- link (scroll down a few videos)
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Mike Ingels on November 13, 2009, 05:09:23 PM
There is overwhelming evidence that the Holocaust happened.  I, personally, can't believe anything else you say if you argue that the Holocaust didn't occur.
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on November 29, 2009, 10:27:37 AM
Well this is somewhat refreshing: an opinion piece that calls a proverbial spade a spade.  The post-concilliar "catholic church," which made headlines across the world a few years back for the pederasts running their shows, is being called out for its inherent lack of respect for God's Laws; not to mention man's.  The environment the council created effectively put the foxes in charge of the henhouses which their churches became starting in the early 1970s.  Of course the derision created by the council for all things Catholic began much earlier, the "fruits" of what they had "sown" weren't to be seen by those with eyes to see until somewhat later.  In manic attempts to whitewash that which is rampant within the "church" they are now attempting, in vain, to say that's the way things have always been in the Church.  That it's nothing new.  And hopefully they'll rot in hell for the lies alone, if not for everything else they have done to discredit Our Lord and God in the eyes of men:

Irish child abuse was perpetrated by the trendy, modern post-Vatican II Catholic Church (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/geraldwarner/100018182/lets-get-it-straight-irish-child-abuse-was-perpetrated-by-the-trendy-modern-post-vatican-ii-catholic-church/) <- link
Quote
Revealingly, the Report says: “As is shown in Chapter 4, canon law appears to have fallen into disuse and disrespect during the mid 20th century.” Yes; and we all know why – the post-Vatican II anarchic denunciations of “legalism”, of “oppressive” sexual morality and Church teaching generally, promoted by the modernists. As regards implementing canon law against abusers, the Report concedes that Archbishop McQuaid “set the processes in motion but did not complete them [difficult to do when you are dead]. Archbishops Ryan and McNamara do not seem to have ever applied the canon law.”

Well, who ever did, in the trendy, let-it-all-hang-out 1970s and 1980s? The image that has sedulously been propagated is of Irish child abuse perpetrated by priests in soutanes and birettas, cowled monks muttering Latin incantations and nuns in starched wimples and mediaeval habits.

On the contrary, the nightmare orgy of relentless mortal sin recorded in this report was committed by modern priests, with a strip of white celluloid in place of a Roman collar – if they deigned to wear clerical dress – devastating their church sanctuaries as badly as they devastated childrem’s lives, abolishing all the devotions such as Benediction, the Rosary, regular confession, devotion to saints, etc that had sustained Irish faith for centuries. One priest admitted to abusing over 100 children. For that he was indulged; but if he had celebrated the Latin Tridentine Mass his feet would not have touched the ground.
(more in the article)
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Mike Ingels on November 29, 2009, 04:43:10 PM
Arguments within the church are always like that, Pax.  Change does happen within the church.  It always has and it always will.  The world changes.  People change.  Our understanding of God changes.

But the church does hold that there are doctrines that don't change.  So, when change happens, it is almost always presented as building on what came before.  Just read any encyclical or council document.  Precedent is pretty much always cited.  And the church is not alone in this.  Our courts run on this principle.

Your "logic" is flawed when you present the current pope and hierarchy as being representative of the Council Fathers.  John Paul II was a lot of great things, but he was not a progressive.  Most of his internal church positions represented a backlash against the actions of the Council.  It was a lot like the conservative political revolution that Reagan represented in America.

Arguing that Pope Benedict is a council reformer is like arguing that Reagan and Bush are 60s radicals.  It is the complete opposite.

And the retrenchment against the council in many ways made the abuse scandal possible.  And here's why:

During the post-conciliar period - the 1970s - there were many experiments in reforming church governance.  In the United States, this period saw a great increase in parish councils with actual administrative authority.  And John Cardinal Dearden - whose picture now graces the walls of St. Mike's - introduced several diocesan level lay advisory groups.

Most of these efforts died with John Paul II.  And Ratzinger is so closely identified with JPII that there has been barely a difference in the approach towards such good government reform movements in the church.

It has always been too easy for one individual with all the power - the bishop - to sweep unsettling information under the rug.  And the fact that we didn't have responsive structures in place when these abuse scandals were reported is the fault of the reactionaries within the church, not the progressives.
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: tree hugging liberal on November 30, 2009, 04:55:47 PM
Very well written Mike.Clear,concise,no insults,you did not demean anyone.Well done.I mean that,no sarcasm from me here. I wanted to be that way,however I let a couple of extremists pollute me.I shall try to follow your example.It will be tough,they have a way of spreading lies and misinformation.They seem to get some sort of twisted pleasure out of it.
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on January 24, 2010, 10:02:04 AM
Here is a well-presented article entitled What Hath 'The spirit of Vatican II' Wrought? (http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/abbott/100119) (<- link) which ends with the following quotation:
Quote
Such a weakened, sickly entity occupying what little real estate it has not already sold off, torn down or abandoned will easily fit into the mosaic of a one world, Masonic religion that is anything but holy, anything but life-giving, and anything but sanctifying.

May God help the remnants of Christ's true Church.

I couldn't have put it more succinctly if I tried. . .
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: SPOOKYTOOTH on January 27, 2010, 03:56:40 AM
Here is a well-presented article entitled What Hath 'The spirit of Vatican II' Wrought? ([url]http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/abbott/100119[/url]) (<- link) which ends with the following quotation:I couldn't have put it more succinctly if I tried. . .


Interesting thoughts Pax...   but you're barkin up the wrong tree...(kinda).  What you're lookin for is something all encompassing. What is the Catholic church PART of that is also part of everything else..?... find THAT and you will find a major key that will open many a door....  remember what I said: 'POLITICALRELIGIOUSPHILOSOPHY' all in one, one in the same...ONENESS of the ISNESS; ISNESS of the ONENESS.... You know what 'isness' is and represents; connect it to 'oneness' and all you have to do is follow the sign posts from there...keep in mind that "isness" is NEUTER...non-sexual  it can be EITHER or BOTH; depending on the subject and topic, or empire,  ;D. You are correct with the thought about Babylon and Catholicism; but not quite on target for a bullseye.  What you are lookin for goes back further...  all the way back to Eve  :o. Catholicism began with Tamuz; but Tamuz was but a child.... how do children come to be?

I could tell you; but then what would you learn?  ;) 
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: SPOOKYTOOTH on January 27, 2010, 03:58:37 AM
Nowhere, at no time, in Catholic history has a stand-alone M signified the Mother of God; but it does signify Master Mason:
([url]http://www.remnantofgod.org/images/oconner1.jpg[/url])

([url]http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/pga/02700/02796v.jpg[/url])

...with an explanation of the symbols on G. Washington's apron HERE ([url]http://www.pagrandlodge.org/mlam/apron/index.html[/url]).

Notice #23 is the Skull and Crossbones (which adorned JPIIs metal coffin) and the trapezoidal shape ([url]http://www.trapezoid.org/[/url]) of the wooden coffin figures quite prominently in the satanistic occult symbolism, not Catholic.


this is only a sidetrack; a stumbling block, derailing those it will and those it can... keep going...
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on January 27, 2010, 11:01:54 AM
The Prophecy of Premol (5th century)
"...And I see the King of Rome with his Cross and his tiara, shaking the dust off his shoes, and hastening in his flight to other shores. Thy Church, O Lord, is torn apart by her own children. One camp is faithful to the fleeing *Pontiff, the other is subject to the new government of Rome which has broken the Tiara. But Almighty God will, in His mercy, put an end to this confusion and a new age will begin. Then, said the Spirit, this is the beginning of the End of Time."
(http://www.opusdeialert.com/anti-pope-montini.jpg)
"Cardinal" Montini a.k.a Anti-Pope Paul VI "giving away" (Smashing)
the triple-crowned Papal Tiara to the Godless United Nations, who in turn sold it to a Jewish merchant

     The prophecy states emphatically 1)there would be an anti-Pope who would deign to "smash" the symbol of three-tiered Papal Authority and 2) a true Pontiff who would have fled Rome.  Montini certainly fits the first but who is/was the 2nd?
(http://www.opusdeialert.com/opus-dei-website-conclave.jpg)
et ego dico tibi quia tu es Petrus et super hanc petram aedificabo ecclesiam meam,
et portae inferi non praevalebunt adversum eam
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: SPOOKYTOOTH on January 29, 2010, 02:32:15 AM
The Prophecy of Premol (5th century)


....Honestly Pax; I haven't a clue. I haven't really studied the intricacies of Catholicism; except that which pertains to prophecy, Israel, and its history / origin.

What I can say is that if you are seeking to understand Catholicism as it relates to prophecy and where it began you have to  follow the symbolism.

Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: SPOOKYTOOTH on January 29, 2010, 03:28:12 AM
It's not merely coincidence that NewChurch is now bold enough to ape the nonsensical iterations of the globalists' ideology - it's quite clear they are part-and-parcel of the coming New World Order.  Organized Opposition was never so obeisant.  From the IHM "sisters" website:

"Compelled?"  By whom?
"Gospel values of harmony and unity?"  Which "gospel" are they referring to?
"Peace and justice?"  "Equitable Sharing?" How do they define "peace", "justice," "equitable" and "sharing?"  I'll bet their "dictionary" has more in common with Black's Law than Webster's.

"Planetary community?"  What the hell is that, unless they're extraterrestrial alien life-forms...?
"All creation" is "sacred?"  Last I checked, Satan's minions are part of creation and are anything but "sacred."  Where evil exists it is to be shunned, not "recognized and respected."

"Impelled," yet again, by whose "gospel?" How can "human rights" coexist with man's obligations to God?  They are in opposition to each other and not "complementary."  One must either worship at the altar of man or at the Altar of God.  Where man has exalted himself as the equal of God and slaughtered the children of God without remorse, there can be no righteous solidarity.

"Human family," yet again: nothing about eradicating evil, wherever it exists, only the imaginary "evil" of the Children of God having far superior civilizations than the children of Men have ever had, have now, or will ever have by their own volition.  "Racism" is a sin (against whom or a violation of which of God's Laws they don't say) to be stamped out with an iron boot, but "Feminism" must be hallowed by us all:We mere mortals are to exalt "woman" as something other than what God created Eve for: a helpmate and companion to her husband, and rearer of his children.

How is anyone to expect to "ensure safe and nutritious food" globewide without a global governance?  And even with Global Governance such an assurity is absurd on its face.  Are we to "outlaw" poisonous mushrooms?  Are we to feed unrepentent evil-doers so they can continue to multiply beyond nature's allowable limits?

"Diversity" is "good," and All Whites are Racist People To Be Destroyed, straight from the Horse's IHMAss.

They cannot be the "Catholic religious community" they profess to be if they're more concerned with and interested in International Humanism and its self-professed creed of the so-called "equality of men" and the sanctity of HolyMotherEarthCommunitarianism:

The "church" in Rome and it's multiplicity of "believers" are but willing pawns and faithful servants of their coming "messiah": Anti-Christ.

Interesting info....  but the One World Religion is already here; has been (officially) for bout 63 years; but more predominately so for the last 20 - 30. Course it existed long before 1947; but it was officially given governmental powers through the inception of the UN. It has already absorbed most of the world's religions, even secular believers (those who don't believe in God) are welcomed with open arms because it adapts to form common bonds with ALL inductees. Catholicism is a part of it, and IT is a part of Catholicism...  just as IT is a part of ALL other religions and beliefs, even American Indians and the spiritualists of Sub-Saharan Africa have a part in this religion; and yes Pax; Jews and your treasured Germans have their roles as well. (In fact, it was through Germany's underground that IT survived WWII to be resurrected into the new UN).

It has, is, and will utilize Democracy as its MO to gain further ground on the churches of Christianity; until all are absorbed into its being. Catholicism will be the dominate, yet it too is going through the required metamorphosis to be assimilated.

The result?  ONE WORLD  POLITICALRELIGIOUSPHILOSOPHY of unmitigated Evil.  Now, here in the USA we fight and argue over whether there is a separation of Church and State; yet in this coming World Government BOTH will be ONE; thereby solidifying its power across all former boundaries and obstacles. (this is why I say to those who would resist such a beast they fight with one hand behind their backs unless they recognize the singularity of church and state).

Here's another kicker Pax... membership IS NOT by choice; rather by fiat. One doesn't apply   to GET IN; but rather MUST adhere to, (guess what... 8) ) ,  ... Truth to in fact GET OUT.  (( Hmmm.....> FANCY THAT )).   

If you follow the information I've left in plain sight, available to everyone FREELY; you'll be led directly too that which already WAS, IS, and yet WILL BE. But remember; its not  the gettin IN  that's difficult....   its the gettin OUT  that's the key.....     


Though you are on the right track... keep DIGGING...go back further, BEFORE Catholicism became involved... follow the symbolism and it will take you back to Babylon, Sumeria and further.       
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: SimpleMan on January 29, 2010, 08:48:30 PM
I'm starting RCIA classes next week, so I guess I'll learn all about this Catholic stuff.   
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on January 29, 2010, 09:08:48 PM
Uh.  What's RCIA, simple?
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: SimpleMan on January 29, 2010, 09:16:22 PM
Uh.  What's RCIA, simple?

It's the program, classes really, whereby adults become Catholic. RCIA satnds for Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults. I start next Friday at St. Joseph's in Erie. 
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: ShorTea on January 29, 2010, 09:23:15 PM
It's the program, classes really, whereby adults become Catholic. RCIA satnds for Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults. I start next Friday at St. Joseph's in Erie.

Congrats, and I think you'll enjoy it.
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on January 29, 2010, 09:45:46 PM
It's the program, classes really, whereby adults become Catholic.

If ya want to go to a real Catholic Mass let me know.
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: SimpleMan on January 29, 2010, 09:59:42 PM
If ya want to go to a real Catholic Mass let me know.

Well, I won't be confirmed and all that jazz until summer, so until then I'll attend Mass here in Erie.

LOL, my sponsor, a co-worker, talks alot about how bad Vatican II is, about how it's hard to find a truly Holy priest, etc. but he says St. Joes in Erie is a good one.   
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on January 29, 2010, 10:37:36 PM
Whether St. Joseph's in Monroe are the lesser of the other evil alternatives I don't know - but there are real Catholic parishes not too far distant.
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: SimpleMan on January 29, 2010, 10:44:29 PM
There is overwhelming evidence that the Holocaust happened.  I, personally, can't believe anything else you say if you argue that the Holocaust didn't occur.

There have been lots of holocausts. I don't deny that Germany had an elaborate, industrialized process in place during WWII to kill Jews, Gypsies, Poles, Russians, the mentally ill, anyone who spoke out against Hitler, etc. but I'm saying calling that THE holocaust, because Jews were involved, is wrong. There have been MANY genocides during the 20th century, some that dwarf even the numbers (roughly 6 million Jews, 5 or 6 million others). I fail to see how one genocide is more important than another.

Also, putting "the" holocaust into Catholic doctrine is wrong. ALL genocides should simply be brought together as crimes against humanity that should be condemned, no ONE should be put above others.     
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: SimpleMan on January 29, 2010, 10:45:44 PM
Whether St. Joseph's in Monroe are the lesser of the other evil alternatives I don't know - but there are real Catholic parishes not too far distant.

No, not St. Joseph's in Monroe, St. Joseph's in ERIE. I live down that way. 
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on January 29, 2010, 11:33:35 PM
I meant to include the word "county," but didn't.  :-\
I go to a St. Joseph's Catholic Church (http://www.stjosephschurch.net/) as well - in Wayne, Michigan.  Lots of information on the link there, simple.
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: udontknowme on January 29, 2010, 11:47:16 PM
The pope is Illuminati
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on January 29, 2010, 11:58:18 PM
The pope is Illuminati

If you're referring to anti-pope Ratzinger/Ben XVI I agree, and Novus Ordo-controlled Rome is the apocalyptic w**** of Babylon, cheerleaders for Anti-Christ.
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: udontknowme on January 29, 2010, 11:59:31 PM
that is exactly what i am referring to
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: SimpleMan on January 31, 2010, 01:27:53 AM
Well, I'm not Illuminati, but I start my RCIA classes next Friday. I'm looking forward to it.
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: SPOOKYTOOTH on January 31, 2010, 03:57:33 AM
There have been lots of holocausts. I don't deny that Germany had an elaborate, industrialized process in place during WWII to kill Jews, Gypsies, Poles, Russians, the mentally ill, anyone who spoke out against Hitler, etc. but I'm saying calling that THE holocaust, because Jews were involved, is wrong. There have been MANY genocides during the 20th century, some that dwarf even the numbers (roughly 6 million Jews, 5 or 6 million others). I fail to see how one genocide is more important than another.

Also, putting "the" holocaust into Catholic doctrine is wrong. ALL genocides should simply be brought together as crimes against humanity that should be condemned, no ONE should be put above others.   

Perhaps more to the point would be the fact that Hitler was never excommunicated by the Catholic Church and in fact Nazis were helped to escape Germany as the alies closed in.

What is significant about the holocaust of WWII is that it focused on the Jews; or rather the race believed to constitute the Nation of  Israel in the Bible. Here's the key  if the nation of Israel of the Bible could be eliminated, Bible prophecy doesn't get fulfilled; or so the theory may  have been.

Now of course this is purely theoretical in nature; however the implications, were it to be so, would prove quite extraordinary in deed considering it is ZION in particular and ISRAEL in general   that are key and pivotal to routing evil and bringing about God's kingdom on earth... putting an end to Satan's influence over man; temporarily for a thousand years at least.

Considering the profitability angle; some may have considered such a plan as attempting to change the future lucrative; and it would not have been without president; its old knowledge that where $$ and lives are concerned, $$ always comes out the winner.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       


 
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on January 31, 2010, 09:52:15 AM
I'm still astounded by the number of so-called "Catholics" and sundry others who call themselves "christians" who parrot the non-sensical marxist tenet of crimes against humanity.  There are no "sins" a man can commit against another man - all sin is thought or action against God Himself, not His creation.  To even attempt to equate "God's Laws" with "Man's Laws" is ludicrous on its face, and diabolical in inception - which certainly makes it easy to see who's running the Vatican these days - as we were told it would be:

“All the civil governments will have one and the same plan, which will be to abolish and do away with every religious principal to make way for materialism, atheism, spiritualism and vice of all kinds."

“Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the Antichrist."

Our Lady of La Salette - the 19th of September, 1846 (http://www.thepopeinred.com/secret.htm) <- link
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: SimpleMan on February 01, 2010, 02:47:35 PM
I'm still astounded by the number of so-called "Catholics" and sundry others who call themselves "christians" who parrot the non-sensical marxist tenet of crimes against humanity.  There are no "sins" a man can commit against another man - all sin is thought or action against God Himself, not His creation.  To even attempt to equate "God's Laws" with "Man's Laws" is ludicrous on its face, and diabolical in inception - which certainly makes it easy to see who's running the Vatican these days - as we were told it would be:

“All the civil governments will have one and the same plan, which will be to abolish and do away with every religious principal to make way for materialism, atheism, spiritualism and vice of all kinds."

“Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the Antichrist."

   

Our Lady of La Salette - the 19th of September, 1846 ([url]http://www.thepopeinred.com/secret.htm[/url]) <- link


Ok, fine, you know a great deal more about this subject than I do, so I'll stand corrected. It still seems odd though, that crimes that people commit against other people, should be called crimes against God. God didn't will genocides to occur, or not to, people did.

Again, I admit to not being very knowledgeable on the subject, but it has always been my belief, that God put us here, He gave us the elements, all we need to survive, gave us the capacity for intelligent thought so we could reason, gave us laws to live by, and that's it. I don't think the human brain can comprehend God, He is so much greater than we are. He put us here, gave us free will, and we will be judged by Him when the time comes. I don't think things happen on this Earth because of, or in spite of, God's will
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: ShorTea on February 01, 2010, 03:00:07 PM
It still seems odd though, that crimes that people commit against other people, should be called crimes against God. God didn't will genocides to occur, or not to, people did.


You're doing fine, no need to stand corrected. My interpretation has always been that if I commit a crime against another person, it's the same as if I commit that crime against God.
The people committing the crime are guilty of the sin, not the victims, and God wasn't on the criminals side saying "do it".
Just my ideas.
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on February 01, 2010, 09:17:00 PM
It still seems odd though, that crimes that people commit against other people, should be called crimes against God.
God didn't will genocides to occur, or not to, people did.

You worded that incorrectly: man has created all sorts of so-called "crimes."  Human "crimes" and crimes against God, therefore, are dissimilar, unrelated, inequitable.  Violations of the 10 Commandments, whether they are acknowleded by "man's laws" or not are still Crimes Against God.
If you don't think God ever willed or commanded "genocide" then you obviously haven't read the Old Testament, have you?  It's rife with it.
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: SimpleMan on February 05, 2010, 02:30:53 AM
You worded that incorrectly: man has created all sorts of so-called "crimes."  Human "crimes" and crimes against God, therefore, are dissimilar, unrelated, inequitable.  Violations of the 10 Commandments, whether they are acknowleded by "man's laws" or not are still Crimes Against God.
If you don't think God ever willed or commanded "genocide" then you obviously haven't read the Old Testament, have you?  It's rife with it.


I was referring to genocies perpetrated during the 20th century. I wasn't talking about Sodom and Gomorrah, nor the Great Flood. Genocides depicted in the Old Testament are open to interpetation...We don't have real evidence they actually occurred, as depicted. Personally, as someone who is accepting the Catholic Faith, I see things such as Jonah being swallowed by a whale, or very large fish, or Noah building of an ark to hold 2 of all species of animals to ride out the flood, to be physically impossible, and therefore to be viewed as symbolism of something (I'm not sure what) rather than literal fact.

Agian, I will say that what the Nazis, or the Bolshevik Russians, did during WW2 does not represent God's will. We DO have real evidence that these things occurred, so there is no need of interpetation, except to try and reason WHY. God, has no place in reasoning why Earthly men do Earthly deeds. When these people DIE, God judges them.
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Griff on February 05, 2010, 09:16:46 AM


I was referring to genocies perpetrated during the 20th century. I wasn't talking about Sodom and Gomorrah, nor the Great Flood. Genocides depicted in the Old Testament are open to interpetation...We don't have real evidence they actually occurred, as depicted. Personally, as someone who is accepting the Catholic Faith, I see things such as Noah being swallowed by a whale, or his building of an ark to hold 2 of all species of animals to ride out the flood, to be physically impossible, and therefore to be viewed as symbolism of something (I'm not sure what) rather than literal fact.

Agian, I will say that what the Nazis, or the Bolshevik Russians, did during WW2 does not represent God's will. We DO have real evidence that these things occurred, so there is no need of interpetation, except to try and reason WHY. God, has no place in reasoning why Earthly men do Earthly deeds. When these people DIE, God judges them.

Just to avoid confusion:

The Book says it was a man named Jonah and it was a big fish, no mention of a whale.

peace
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: SimpleMan on February 05, 2010, 04:43:17 PM
Just to avoid confusion:

The Book says it was a man named Jonah and it was a big fish, no mention of a whale.

peace

Stupid typo, I corrected it.   
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: SPOOKYTOOTH on February 06, 2010, 02:49:29 AM


I was referring to genocies perpetrated during the 20th century. I wasn't talking about Sodom and Gomorrah, nor the Great Flood. Genocides depicted in the Old Testament are open to interpetation...We don't have real evidence they actually occurred, as depicted. Personally, as someone who is accepting the Catholic Faith, I see things such as Jonah being swallowed by a whale, or very large fish, or Noah building of an ark to hold 2 of all species of animals to ride out the flood, to be physically impossible, and therefore to be viewed as symbolism of something (I'm not sure what) rather than literal fact.

Agian, I will say that what the Nazis, or the Bolshevik Russians, did during WW2 does not represent God's will. We DO have real evidence that these things occurred, so there is no need of interpetation, except to try and reason WHY. God, has no place in reasoning why Earthly men do Earthly deeds. When these people DIE, God judges them.

These 'Earthly deeds' that men do.....  you say God has no place in the reasoning of why  men do them...

So God does not teach of the source of Evil? BOTH carnal and SPIRITUAL?  MMMM...I beg to differ.  I do believe the Bible is full of examples and teachings of both  as well as how to combat and over come them. I believe that God also explains His reasoning in keeping a 'hands off'  approach with man, except for those He chooses to work with, or in instances where His plan would be compromised.

God is very explicit on what His laws are and how one is to consider them. He is also explicit on what the rules of conduct are to be between individuals and nations and how those who violate those rules are to be delt with; it is  man who has deemed his reasoning to be superior to that of God's and in doing so superimposes himself into God's position.

Consider: IF man were to have followed God's laws and guidelines; Hitler nor the Nazis would never have come to power, or even existed,  in the FIRST  place. But man demanded (and yet today STILL demands )  that God STAY OUT OF HIS AFFAIRS (look at your own words!!)  and then bemoans that GOD  ALLOWED  "these things" to happen.... :o

As for not knowing the thoughts or mind of God.... go back and read the New Test. (and the Old), esp. Corinthians. one can't walk with God unless he is in agreement with God, one can't be in agreement with God unless  he knows what it is he is in agreement WITH, can he?  :o   (the Ten Commandments? Puleez...   do you really think that's the only  thought in God's mind)?

This isn't addressed to you  personally; but to all, and to you as well.

P.S. ...   according to God's law;  Hitler (or Stalin, or any other of their ilk) and every Nazi as well as EVERY SUPPORTER of them would be executed..... yet MAN  in his  INFINITE wisdom saw it fit to permit some of them, if not ALL of them to not only live  but PROSPER under new identities and with new lives...  or in Stalin's case...   unimpeded....  even to the point of hob nobing and honoring them.

God's teachings don't teach this... but Man's Do.     
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: SimpleMan on February 06, 2010, 03:08:17 AM
These 'Earthly deeds' that men do.....  you say God has no place in the reasoning of why  men do them...

So God does not teach of the source of Evil? BOTH carnal and SPIRITUAL?  MMMM...I beg to differ.  I do believe the Bible is full of examples and teachings of both  as well as how to combat and over come them. I believe that God also explains His reasoning in keeping a 'hands off'  approach with man, except for those He chooses to work with, or in instances where His plan would be compromised.

God is very explicit on what His laws are and how one is to consider them. He is also explicit on what the rules of conduct are to be between individuals and nations and how those who violate those rules are to be delt with; it is  man who has deemed his reasoning to be superior to that of God's and in doing so superimposes himself into God's position.

Consider: IF man were to have followed God's laws and guidelines; Hitler nor the Nazis would never have come to power, or even existed,  in the FIRST  place. But man demanded (and yet today STILL demands )  that God STAY OUT OF HIS AFFAIRS (look at your own words!!)  and then bemoans that GOD  ALLOWED  "these things" to happen.... :o

As for not knowing the thoughts or mind of God.... go back and read the New Test. (and the Old), esp. Corinthians. one can't walk with God unless he is in agreement with God, one can't be in agreement with God unless  he knows what it is he is in agreement WITH, can he?  :o   (the Ten Commandments? Puleez...   do you really think that's the only  thought in God's mind)?

This isn't addressed to you  personally; but to all, and to you as well.

P.S. ...   according to God's law;  Hitler (or Stalin, or any other of their ilk) and every Nazi as well as EVERY SUPPORTER of them would be executed..... yet MAN  in his  INFINITE wisdom saw it fit to permit some of them, if not ALL of them to not only live  but PROSPER under new identities and with new lives...  or in Stalin's case...   unimpeded....  even to the point of hob nobing and honoring them.




God's teachings don't teach this... but Man's Do.     


As usual, Spooky, I'm not sure how to respond...Except to say that I feel God gives us Free Will, and what happens on this Earth is OUR doing, not His. Man can do horrible things to other men on this Earth, and may get away with it according to our Earthly laws, but they will certainly NOT escape God's judgement for what they have done.

That's just the way I see it. I post this, knowing you and Pax will shoot my post to pieces, but it's just my feeling about the subject. 
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: SPOOKYTOOTH on February 06, 2010, 04:16:39 PM
As usual, Spooky, I'm not sure how to respond...Except to say that I feel God gives us Free Will, and what happens on this Earth is OUR doing, not His. Man can do horrible things to other men on this Earth, and may get away with it according to our Earthly laws, but they will certainly NOT escape God's judgement for what they have done.

That's just the way I see it. I post this, knowing you and Pax will shoot my post to pieces, but it's just my feeling about the subject.

I'm not going to 'shoot your post to pieces', but I will ask you a couple of questions:

Who's reasoning is superior, that of God or that of man?

Which does this world focus on and why?

The Bible represents many things, but isn't authority  and submission to it, as long as it is based in TRUTH and LOVE (righteouness), the key teaching found throughout its pages from cover to cover?
   
Listen to and Read the words those who oppose / do not follow the teachings of God speak, (whether written or spoken, you still must read them) to understand them; whether they are laymen, leaders, 'sinners'  or 'saints'... their words focus on the principle of "I"  as in " 'authority rests with ME'  to conduct my life / actions as I see fit..."  . Take a moment before you respond and consider what I just stated...

Now, ask yourself this question: 'What problems could not be overcome if that 'ME' in authority rests with ME  were changed to 'God' or 'Truth' ? Would Hitler have existed, or Stalin, or the Healthcare issue, or improper taxation, or medical malpractice, ... or any of the other myriad of evils in which man is drowning?  The answer is 'no' is it not?

(bear with me a while yet....)

These are your words correct:

"  I feel God gives us Free Will, and what happens on this Earth is OUR doing, not His. Man can do horrible things to other men on this Earth, and may get away with it according to our Earthly laws, but they will certainly NOT escape God's judgement for what they have done".

Does this part of your reasoning ( 'God gives us Free Will' ) stand according to God's teaching? If it does; using a concordance and Bible one should be able to what....? Prove it correct? (don't take my  word on it PROVE it for yourselves ). 

The question is: does God give us free will, or does God allow  us free will..? Why is this important? Because it forms a person's view and consideration of what God represents


EXAMPLE:

If a parent gives  a child free will  can that parent then hold that child responsible for CHOOSING  to follow his or her free will; what ever that may entail?

They cannot can they?

However;  IF that same parent allows  the same child to make the choice of choosing between  free will OR the instruction the parent has set forth, now the parent IS justified in correcting, ( holding the child responsible for his or her choice and actions ), the child.

Do you understand the difference? In the first scenario God's authority is being negated by the reasoning. In the second it is being upheld and reinforced.

God doesn't GIVE  us free will... He does ALLOW  us the choice of following it or His teaching.

Now, look at what you presented again:

"I feel God gives us Free Will, and what happens on this Earth is OUR doing, not His.

 Man can do horrible things to other men on this Earth, and may get away with it according to our Earthly laws,

 but they will certainly NOT escape God's judgement for what they have done".   

The following is NOT a question TO you but rather OF you... in other words; it is not necessarily for you to present an answer too, but rather for you to consider the reasoning OF.  Its designed to make you THINK about your thinking  as it relates to what you feel  you understand about God's teaching and what you may not in actuality know.

    I ask you; if you feel that God gives (grants)  us (man)  Free Will, by what authority  (( ? your own ? ))  do you then turn about and hold God  responsible for judging us according to His laws (which, according to your statement He has given us the CHOICE of following or not  following )  ?

Essentially, what you are presenting is that God gives man the (His) authority  to pursue the desires of his own free will (heart), but then in doing so is going to turn about and revoke that authority and judge man for doing evil when He has in essence given him His blessing to do so. 

YOU  may not see  it this way; but this is in essence what you expressed.

THIS  is what I refer to when I say "by your own words" ...

I understand  the point you were trying to present; its not within my  understanding that the incongruency  lies. What I am attempting to point out to you is the inconsistency and therefore the contradiction of the reasoning you are presenting.

(because its the same that men the world over use, and its in error)

The focus is not on what God sets forth as guidelines for man to follow but rather on what  YOU  feel  (your interpretation, the me part ) is God's teaching. Your focus is on 'ME'  rather than on God, and in doing so you unwittingly put the authority of you ( the 'me' philosophy ) in front of that of God. 

I'm not presenting this as a 'shooting down' of your posting, but rather as insight for you and others to consider; by providing an example of HOW this very contradictory reasoning is inconsistent with pursuit of Truth and understanding God.   


Its as simple as understanding the words, and in fact; that IS exactly what Christ teaches....  one MUST understand the words IN TRUTH to understand the teachings.

Whether you choose to believe this or not is up to you; that doesn't change the fact that it  is what is being presented to you right now. Its not about me  or even necessarily about God. IT is about TRUTH, because without Truth God doesn't exist...   :o 8).   


 






 
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: SimpleMan on February 08, 2010, 02:12:23 PM
I'm not going to 'shoot your post to pieces', but I will ask you a couple of questions:

Who's reasoning is superior, that of God or that of man?

Which does this world focus on and why?

The Bible represents many things, but isn't authority  and submission to it, as long as it is based in TRUTH and LOVE (righteouness), the key teaching found throughout its pages from cover to cover?
   
Listen to and Read the words those who oppose / do not follow the teachings of God speak, (whether written or spoken, you still must read them) to understand them; whether they are laymen, leaders, 'sinners'  or 'saints'... their words focus on the principle of "I"  as in " 'authority rests with ME'  to conduct my life / actions as I see fit..."  . Take a moment before you respond and consider what I just stated...

Now, ask yourself this question: 'What problems could not be overcome if that 'ME' in authority rests with ME  were changed to 'God' or 'Truth' ? Would Hitler have existed, or Stalin, or the Healthcare issue, or improper taxation, or medical malpractice, ... or any of the other myriad of evils in which man is drowning?  The answer is 'no' is it not?

(bear with me a while yet....)

These are your words correct:

"  I feel God gives us Free Will, and what happens on this Earth is OUR doing, not His. Man can do horrible things to other men on this Earth, and may get away with it according to our Earthly laws, but they will certainly NOT escape God's judgement for what they have done".

Does this part of your reasoning ( 'God gives us Free Will' ) stand according to God's teaching? If it does; using a concordance and Bible one should be able to what....? Prove it correct? (don't take my  word on it PROVE it for yourselves ). 

The question is: does God give us free will, or does God allow  us free will..? Why is this important? Because it forms a person's view and consideration of what God represents


EXAMPLE:

If a parent gives  a child free will  can that parent then hold that child responsible for CHOOSING  to follow his or her free will; what ever that may entail?

They cannot can they?

However;  IF that same parent allows  the same child to make the choice of choosing between  free will OR the instruction the parent has set forth, now the parent IS justified in correcting, ( holding the child responsible for his or her choice and actions ), the child.

Do you understand the difference? In the first scenario God's authority is being negated by the reasoning. In the second it is being upheld and reinforced.

God doesn't GIVE  us free will... He does ALLOW  us the choice of following it or His teaching.

Now, look at what you presented again:

"I feel God gives us Free Will, and what happens on this Earth is OUR doing, not His.

 Man can do horrible things to other men on this Earth, and may get away with it according to our Earthly laws,

 but they will certainly NOT escape God's judgement for what they have done".   

The following is NOT a question TO you but rather OF you... in other words; it is not necessarily for you to present an answer too, but rather for you to consider the reasoning OF.  Its designed to make you THINK about your thinking  as it relates to what you feel  you understand about God's teaching and what you may not in actuality know.

    I ask you; if you feel that God gives (grants)  us (man)  Free Will, by what authority  (( ? your own ? ))  do you then turn about and hold God  responsible for judging us according to His laws (which, according to your statement He has given us the CHOICE of following or not  following )  ?

Essentially, what you are presenting is that God gives man the (His) authority  to pursue the desires of his own free will (heart), but then in doing so is going to turn about and revoke that authority and judge man for doing evil when He has in essence given him His blessing to do so. 

YOU  may not see  it this way; but this is in essence what you expressed.

THIS  is what I refer to when I say "by your own words" ...

I understand  the point you were trying to present; its not within my  understanding that the incongruency  lies. What I am attempting to point out to you is the inconsistency and therefore the contradiction of the reasoning you are presenting.

(because its the same that men the world over use, and its in error)

The focus is not on what God sets forth as guidelines for man to follow but rather on what  YOU  feel  (your interpretation, the me part ) is God's teaching. Your focus is on 'ME'  rather than on God, and in doing so you unwittingly put the authority of you ( the 'me' philosophy ) in front of that of God. 

I'm not presenting this as a 'shooting down' of your posting, but rather as insight for you and others to consider; by providing an example of HOW this very contradictory reasoning is inconsistent with pursuit of Truth and understanding God.   


Its as simple as understanding the words, and in fact; that IS exactly what Christ teaches....  one MUST understand the words IN TRUTH to understand the teachings.

Whether you choose to believe this or not is up to you; that doesn't change the fact that it  is what is being presented to you right now. Its not about me  or even necessarily about God. IT is about TRUTH, because without Truth God doesn't exist...   :o 8).   


 






 

Ok, I think I understood most of that. I should have said, God ALLOWS us free will, or more to the point, He ALLOWS us the choice to follow His teachings, and those of Jesus Christ. He shows us the way, but allows us this latitude, though we are responsible to Him if we make the wrong choice.

Certainly, God's reasoning is superior to mine, and of course if God's reasoning and teachings were observed as being higher than that of man, it's difficult to see how such evils as you have listed, and so many more, would have come to be. 

Hopefully that makes more sense.
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Collegekid on February 08, 2010, 04:05:29 PM
The pope is Illuminati

So you are saying that the Pope is a comic book character?
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on July 20, 2010, 11:59:06 PM
   Although all supposedly "good" protestants can't see the forest for the trees they do, occassionally, stumble on truths along their twisted paths to the afterlife.  This video, as a prime example, shows quite clearly through a protestant's rosy-colored glasses that the present occupants of the Vatican are, in fact, satanic but they falsely lay that descriptor at Catholicism's doorstep and not merely on the (obviously heretical non-catholic) individuals themselves.  The Apocalyptic w**** of Babylon will most likely be centered there, if not the final Anti-Christ himself also, but that is because God's true Church is Satan's ultimate target, physically and symbolically, not those who have already fallen for his lies and deceptions.  In the end there will be but a remnant, so it is written:

The Devil in the Vatican, part 4 (http://www.youtube.com/user/SIMONSIMONDO#p/c/14459C8C6643225C/3/X0mqUqc_RcY) <- link

[The MEN forum's filters aren't kind to biblical quotations, I see.  Hmm.  I wonder if that's intentional . . .?]
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: PXaiver on July 21, 2010, 08:10:11 AM
Do you know of any churches in the area that serve mass in Latin?  Just curious because I've always wanted to go to one.
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on July 21, 2010, 05:24:01 PM
My family goes to St. Joseph's (http://www.stjosephschurch.net/) (<- link) in Wayne, Shaggy - Michigan Ave., just barely east of the "downtown" area, north side, next to a novus ordo meeting-place.  There are hundreds of others to be found here (http://www.traditio.com/nat.htm) as well.
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on January 15, 2011, 01:44:18 PM
That manifest heretic Karol Wojtyla (AKA JohnPaul II) is to be "beatified" on the highest of all holy days in the communistic/humanistic/demonic world, "May Day."  Quite telling, in and of itself. I'll bet my head he is buried facing his father in hell and not God in heaven. . .
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Mike Ingels on January 15, 2011, 03:14:52 PM
The man can be criticized.  He didn't do enough to get rid of bad priests.  And the authoritarian clerical structure that he supported has been a disaster.

However, the man fought communism tooth and nail via Solidarity.  And he made untold speeches against secular humanism and materialism.

Criticism supported by facts is good.  Knee-jerk, unsupported criticism is bad.
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on December 11, 2012, 11:49:10 AM
     Yet another example of the blatant luciferianism in the Vatican today: Ratzinger - AKA Benedict XVI the Second - has reiterated calls for a World Government (http://govtslaves.info/vatican-calls-for-world-governmentnew-world-order/) <- link.  The Adversary will rule the world via his appointed Anti-Christ in the last days and the supposed "pope" is his leading, deviant, public cheerleader.  How many supposedly "christian" people will follow his lead blindly to their slaughter?  Being martyred for anti-Christ is not a one-way ticket to heaven but to hell itself, for all eternity:

Quote
The leader of the Catholic Church, Pope Benedict XVI, has called for the establishment of World Government and a New World Order.

In a speech made at the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace on Monday December 3 2012, the Pope called for the “construction of a world community, with a corresponding authority,” to serve the “common good of the human family”.

As a means of defending global peace and justice, the pope’s vision for the establishment of World Government and a New World Order is supposedly not to create a new superpower, but a new governing body that offers to those (politicians) who are responsible for making decisions, criteria for judgment and practical guidelines.

The pope was quoted as saying:

"The proposed body (World Government) would not be a superpower, concentrated in the hands of a few, which would dominate all peoples, exploiting the weakest."

The pope also described his vision as a “moral force” or moral authority that has the “power to influence in accordance with reason, that is, a participatory authority, limited by law in its jurisdiction.”

These latest remarks made by the Pope and the Catholic Church come as no surprise considering that in 2010 the Catholic Church sought the establishment of a new Central World Bank that would be responsible for regulating the global financial industry and the international money supply.

It was reported that the Vatican sought “a supranational authority” which would have worldwide scope and “universal jurisdiction” to guide and control global economic policies and decisions.

China’s new push for closer ties with Russia, the growing intrusions from the United Nations with regards to control of the internet and the latest remarks made by the catholic church all point to a new world order that will set in stone a path the world may not be able to recover
from.
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on March 13, 2013, 04:31:12 PM
   Looking into the occultic significance of the date 3-13-13 (or 13-3-13 as the Europeans write it) for the selection of the new anti-Pope "Francis," shouldn't be too difficult to ascertain - especially when such people aren't even striving to obscure their hatred of all things truly Catholic anymore...

(http://multimedia.detroitnews.com/pix/88/4c/28/a0/87/8d/20130313153127_newpope.jpg)

    The Luciferians' fondness for triplicate numbers (in this case 3-3-3) should be common knowledge at this late juncture - as well as the obvious fact that it is exactly half of the prophetic number 6-6-6.  Our month, March, is named after the Roman Mars, [counterpart to the Greek Ares,] both the celestial planet and "god" of war with the color (blood) red synonymous with both and with the cardinals' cassocks.

    Forbidden Knowledge (http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/13_33_freemason_sig.htm) explains the numerology of this topic:
Quote
"The numbers 3, 7, 9,11,13, 33, 39. Any multiple of these numbers have special meaning to the Illuminati. Notice that the Bilderberg Group has core of 39 members who are broken into 3 groups of 13 members in each group. Notice that the core of 39 answers to the 13 who make up the Policy Committee. Take special notice that the 13 members of the Policy Committee answer to the Round Table of Nine. You know that the original number of states in the United States of America was 13. The Constitution has 7 articles and was signed by 39 members of the Constitutional Convention." Secret Societies / New World Order: by Milton William Cooper

and
Quote
"Hence every occurrence of the number thirteen, and likewise of every multiple of it, stamps that with which it stands in connection with rebellion, apostasy, defection, corruption, disintegration, revolution, or some kindred idea." (Bullinger, E.W. Number in Scripture, Kregel Publications, (c)1967, p. 205).


    Another interesting find: according to the website Archangels and Angels (http://www.archangels-and-angels.com/aa_pages/correspondences/angel_planet/archangel_samael.html) Mars' Tarot Card is The Tower Struck by Lightening XVI and the "Related Deities" of it are Freya, Gwydion, Kali, Vulcan,Odin AKA Woden AKA Wotan from whence our "Wednesday" comes.  Very interesting indeed.

    I'm sure this man's acquisition of the moniker "Frank" has some esoteric meaning behind it, too, but that'll have to wait for now...
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on March 13, 2013, 06:32:53 PM
    This article, concerning the 50-year vacancy of the throne of Peter, was written in 2008.  Five years later the seat is still vacant, even if Frankie parks his Argentinian backside down upon it from time to time.  As none of the "electors" of NewChurch was ever validly consecrated as such it is an impossibility that they could possibly have elected a valid Shepherd for true Catholics - quite the contrary, they have consecrated to the deceiver Satan that which properly belongs to God alone:

Reflections on a 50-Year Vacancy of the Apostolic See (http://www.novusordowatch.org/sede_50.htm) <- link

Quote
The first sign of something unusual occurring was the white smoke that poured out of the chimney the following day at 6 pm. It was unusual because, even though Vatican Radio announced that there was no doubt that a Pope had been elected, the white smoke having been visible for a full five minutes, no Pope appeared on the balcony, and the smoke turned to grey and later to black. The cheering crowd turned away in confusion.

 If this had been any other ordinary conclave, not too much would have to be thought of this, and a reasonable explanation would surely have been given. But it appears to this writer to be too much of a coincidence that something like this should happen in this conclave of all conclaves—a conclave that turned things around so dramatically that there is no question that a “New Church” was created with the supposed “election” of Angelo Cardinal Roncalli, known as “Pope John XXIII,” whose bogus “election” was, in the opinion of this writer, probably preceded by the valid election of a different cardinal to the Supreme Pontificate, a man whose legitimate and free acceptance of the papal office was then invalidly suppressed and the Church thus deceptively thrown into an “eclipse,” as foretold by Our Lady of LaSalette, by a schismatic anti-church that still has control of the Vatican to this very day.


   The election of the last valid Bishop of Rome, Pope Pius XII:

Habemus Papam! - Pope Pio XII (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=YcpPYyEtcA0#)
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on March 14, 2013, 09:49:15 AM
    Thanks to the internet doing a little research on "sudden" celebrities isn't too difficult: Jorge/Francis is quite the darling of the religious set - although not necessarily those of the Catholic persuasion.  It seems he's as quite fond of Argentinian Jewry as they are of him; proof-positive that NewChurch is Zionistic in origin and practice, at odds with everything the Good Lord ever said, and the fulfillment of prophetic vision.

Hanukkah 2012: Argentine Catholics and Jews celebrate Hanukkah and Christmas together (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkeaWNH2kCE&feature=player_embedded#ws)
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on March 18, 2013, 01:41:49 AM
    Jorge the Apostate.

Antipope Francis' Schismatic 'Installation' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwwDLK-S--o&list=UUqqN2e5-zgkQhHOs-ailqBQ&feature=player_detailpage#)
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on March 29, 2013, 10:15:36 AM
    Jorge has been making some waves in the Vatican already, proving his unworthiness for the "office," but across the channel in Britain the parallels are too much to disregard.

     In this day and age of "ecumenism" (AKA preparing the sheep for the arrival of the globally messianic Anti-Christ) the Anglican "church" now shares much of its liturgy and peace, love and kumbaya verbiage with the V2 sect in the Vatican.  They even do the little handshake-thing with good-will wishes for all God's creatures on this earth.  Not to be outdone by the luciferian crazies in the contemporary-version of the "catholic" church the Anglicans even invited an Orthodox patriarch, a Punjabi singing group and an African dance troupe to join in concelebration at the installation of the new "Archbishop" of Canterbury.
Quote
We also had African dancers. It was they who set off Camilla, sitting beside the Prince of Wales.
The African chaps came jiving past in the middle of the service, twirling, yoo-be-dooing, their knees bouncing as high as blokes walking on a hot beach. Yeowww, bro’, that sand is hot!

Who can blame Camilla? Her lips did a crumple, the shoulders started to shake and if she had been drinking soup she might have done the nose trick.
source (http://www.amren.com/news/2013/03/african-dancers-bongo-drums-and-a-punjabi-hymn-the-oh-so-modern-arrival-of-britains-new-archbishop/)

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/03/21/article-2296812-18D6E3C5000005DC-687_964x576.jpg)
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/03/21/article-2296812-18D718A6000005DC-261_964x541.jpg)
Quote
[snip]
Once the sermon was complete and an improvised performance of organ music was under way five people from the Anglican Communion laid objects on the High Altar of the 900-year-old cathedral.

These included a wooden cross made of olive wood from Bethlehem, from Bishop Suheil Dawani of Jerusalem, a picture made from rice from Hong Kong, representing the food staples, a jug of water representing the essentials of life and a wooden carving of a volcano from the Congo symbolising the search for peace.

Perhaps also in a sign of things to come in the Church of England, the long and colourful processions into the cathedral included a number of women bishops from around the world. These included Katharine Jefferts Schori, the head of the powerful US Episcopalian Church.

The Archbishop's robes, designed and made by Juliet Hemingray, were originally made for the late Bishop of Peterborough, Ian Cundy.
[snip]

Quote
His voice echoing inside the vast cathedral, Welby told a congregation of 2,000 people including heir-to-the-throne Prince Charles and Prime Minister David Cameron that the church should focus more on combatting poverty and protecting nature.

'The utterly absurd is completely reasonable when Jesus is the one who is calling,' he said in his sermon.

'Slaves were freed, factory acts passed, and the NHS (public health service) and social care established through Christ-liberated courage.

'The present challenges of environment and economy, of human development and global poverty, can only be faced with Christ-liberated extraordinary courage.'


     If these two snippets from the article (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2296812/Archbishop-Canterbury-Justin-Welby-enthroned-woman-time-history.html) don't read like a National Enquirer piece about a gathering of hippy'esque, lesbian IHM "sisters" and assorted neo-pagans of all stripes in Holllyweird at Summer Solstice to beatify Karl Marx I can't imagine what else would...
Title: Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
Post by: Pax on March 29, 2013, 11:12:30 AM
   Is it an "unprecedented twist," or just plain twisted ?  The latter is more obviously correct:

Pope washes feet of young Muslim woman prisoner in unprecedented twist on Maundy Thursday (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/the-pope/9960168/Pope-washes-feet-of-young-Muslim-woman-prisoner-in-unprecedented-twist-on-Maundy-Thursday.html) <- link

Quote
While popes have for centuries washed the feet of the faithful on the day before Good Friday, never before had a pontiff washed the feet of a woman. That one of the female inmates at the prison in Rome was also a Serbian Muslim was also a break with tradition.
[snip]
Pope Francis washed the feet of 12 inmates aged 14 to 21, among them the two women, the second of whom was an Italian Catholic. Mr Greco said he hoped the ritual would be “a positive sign in their lives”.

Catholic traditionalists are likely to be riled by the inclusion of women in the ceremony because of the belief that all of Jesus’ disciples were male.


    For a secular news agency to notice the "break with tradition" is somewhat surprising, even if it appears they endorse such a thing, but they then continue on belittling one of the most basic truisms of Christianity - that all 12 Disciples were male.  The secular humanists among us aren't only within the MSM they are also running the V2 shows the world over.