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Categories => Religion & Philosophy => Topic started by: Baggins on March 15, 2013, 10:16:08 AM

Title: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Baggins on March 15, 2013, 10:16:08 AM
(http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/66483_592820767413836_1300443403_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Pax on March 15, 2013, 04:17:16 PM
   If somebody is bored enough to look up the verse just to be sure, it would be appreciated, but I'll post it just the same:

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GbYlQ4ltw2M/UUJBY3BOAfI/AAAAAAAATmI/mPh5HsbDzwY/s1600/ninetymiles5ktizZ1r76j99o1_500.jpg)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Baggins on March 16, 2013, 01:10:07 PM
(http://c00022506.cdn1.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/8_39.png)

Sahih International:
"And fight them until there is no fitnah and the religion, all of it, is for Allah. And if they cease ,then indeed, Allah is Seeing of what they do."

fitnah; The term may be used to describe insurrection or civil warfare.

Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: The Fuzz on March 29, 2013, 03:20:53 PM
Oh My God......that is in such poor taste that I can't stop laughing.  I need to go outside and walk this laugh off.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on March 29, 2013, 06:40:29 PM
   If somebody is bored enough to look up the verse just to be sure, it would be appreciated, but I'll post it just the same:

([url]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GbYlQ4ltw2M/UUJBY3BOAfI/AAAAAAAATmI/mPh5HsbDzwY/s1600/ninetymiles5ktizZ1r76j99o1_500.jpg[/url])


Good thing Obama is going to make it so none of us can have one of these ugly black guns.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on March 29, 2013, 08:58:49 PM
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_g73H-o8hMDQ/Sp38gC9chjI/AAAAAAAAA60/jcTtSgoyjLI/s400/Islam-peace...pee.PNG)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on March 29, 2013, 09:15:52 PM
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_J0kJ62BHm1I/S6j7ZJMeuaI/AAAAAAAAAFw/4BucnZTKin8/s400/Muslim+jokes.jpg)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on March 29, 2013, 09:20:51 PM
(http://nhfalcon.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/catholic1.jpg)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Pax on March 30, 2013, 10:44:44 AM
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ymdqVcuhBEA/UO-CwdKFkBI/AAAAAAAAXCI/nCkoZcJXgBQ/s640/16th.jpg)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Pax on March 30, 2013, 10:48:01 AM
    Order early and save 10% !!
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-MFcN_Co85Io/UIt20gOes5I/AAAAAAAARQg/aeFY8hnXLjA/s640/RDM+73.jpg)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on March 30, 2013, 10:13:13 PM
I blame the Animal Cruelty crowd for this policy....

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_9VGZjBQHr0s/SyTZPcpgmOI/AAAAAAAAEZY/o5e4fHsMcsw/Guantanamo%20(Visitors)%20%5B800x600%5D.jpg)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on March 30, 2013, 10:15:43 PM
Now it ALL makes sense.

(http://markhumphrys.com/Bitmaps/gadahn.jpg)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Professor H on April 02, 2013, 09:45:42 AM
The rest of the world is moving towards rights and freedoms and desegregation
While most Islamic Countries are facing pressures to the opposite from their radicals.

Hamas is putting in new segregation laws - for children

A scary fact: I didn't realize Hamas's beginnings
========================
Hamas was founded in 1987 as an offshoot of Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood. The UN, US, and Israel all regard Hamas as a terrorist organization. The movement has attracted ire for its use of rockets against Israeli civilian populations, its financial support for terrorist operations, and waging war from close proximity to children, daring the West to spill young blood when launching any retaliatory strikes.
Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/598442/hamas-bans-mixed-sex-schools-in-gaza-strip/#jpG1gAclQLTuiX7u.99 (http://www.inquisitr.com/598442/hamas-bans-mixed-sex-schools-in-gaza-strip/#jpG1gAclQLTuiX7u.99)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on April 02, 2013, 11:18:04 AM
The rest of the world is moving towards rights and freedoms and desegregation
While most Islamic Countries are facing pressures to the opposite from their radicals.

Hamas is putting in new segregation laws - for children

A scary fact: I didn't realize Hamas's beginnings
========================
Hamas was founded in 1987 as an offshoot of Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood. The UN, US, and Israel all regard Hamas as a terrorist organization. The movement has attracted ire for its use of rockets against Israeli civilian populations, its financial support for terrorist operations, and waging war from close proximity to children, daring the West to spill young blood when launching any retaliatory strikes.
Read more at [url]http://www.inquisitr.com/598442/hamas-bans-mixed-sex-schools-in-gaza-strip/#jpG1gAclQLTuiX7u.99[/url] ([url]http://www.inquisitr.com/598442/hamas-bans-mixed-sex-schools-in-gaza-strip/#jpG1gAclQLTuiX7u.99[/url])


Yes - and our President thinks that Israel should back down and compromise.  I don't agree with him.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Dandy_Richardvilles on April 02, 2013, 12:24:59 PM
A friend took this picture outside Kabul....

(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSXM8PdcIQFTEVDdB5paWC1dVSbHy-JTCQtI0EMfMSLxXSNU8At)

Sure "your friend" did.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on April 02, 2013, 12:52:23 PM
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_c3WtQv44wGc/SLrt1yJ6-0I/AAAAAAAAAuI/uBWi1aesjKo/s400/Islamic+preentation.jpg)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Dandy_Richardvilles on April 02, 2013, 01:17:08 PM
([url]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ymdqVcuhBEA/UO-CwdKFkBI/AAAAAAAAXCI/nCkoZcJXgBQ/s640/16th.jpg[/url])


And if the top photo showed the posteriors of prepubescent boys and the bottom photo depicted 3 leering priests?
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on April 02, 2013, 02:46:47 PM
Man that guy in the middle in the bottom picture makes me laugh.

Looks like a 5 year old on Christmas morning!

 ;D
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: blue2 on April 02, 2013, 02:58:29 PM
It seems the participation is down on all the sites that offer viewer feedback.  Perhaps everyone has just about given up that America will ever be the same again with all the liberals running rampid and Obama screwing over everyone with his assult on the Constitution and favoring the poor downtrodden over the wealth Americans that either worked for their wealth or inherited it.  He hates those people.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Dandy_Richardvilles on April 02, 2013, 03:04:47 PM
Man that guy in the middle in the bottom picture makes me laugh.

Looks like a 5 year old on Christmas morning!

 ;D

In a race to the bottom (no pun intended) with Pax I see.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on April 02, 2013, 03:12:23 PM
In a race to the bottom (no pun intended) with Pax I see.


Hi Moaner.

(http://cdnimg.visualizeus.com/thumbs/61/fb/children,girls,islam,muhammad,oppression,peace-61fb278440edc3e5e7c9e1b76d9d7cf8_h.jpg)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Dandy_Richardvilles on April 02, 2013, 03:15:21 PM
Hi Moaner.

([url]http://cdnimg.visualizeus.com/thumbs/61/fb/children,girls,islam,muhammad,oppression,peace-61fb278440edc3e5e7c9e1b76d9d7cf8_h.jpg[/url])


Moaner.  That's clever.  I like that.  Will have to remember it.  Did you think that up all by yourself?

Apparently my mistake was thinking this thread was about something other than bestiality. 
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on April 02, 2013, 03:18:50 PM
I see there is no denial.

This thread is about Islam- the Religion of Peace.

I don't buy that myself.

(http://thegreatantagonizer.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/islam_religion_of_peace_022.jpg)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Dandy_Richardvilles on April 02, 2013, 03:22:54 PM
I see there is no denial.

This thread is about Islam- the Religion of Peace.

I don't buy that myself.

([url]http://thegreatantagonizer.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/islam_religion_of_peace_022.jpg[/url])


Who said I bought it?  I just think people can make their points without the juvenile bestiality references.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monique on April 02, 2013, 03:24:40 PM
Hi, obsessive compulsive hate filled bag of dirt. That's not me.  :-*
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on April 02, 2013, 03:30:07 PM
Hi, obsessive compulsive hate filled bag of dirt. That's not me.  :-*


Okay.  I wasn't sure.

How are you today? 

Perhaps some pleasant exchange would be in order after that rant?

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-uzb1q_wU4Uo/T3jQZcw2ZaI/AAAAAAAAF0U/nUbiSmz89zU/s1600/Islam+means+peace+alt.png)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monique on April 02, 2013, 03:33:18 PM
Hmmm.... wallow in mud with a racist, bigoted, juvenile creep or enjoy my day with my kids? Hmmm.....
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on April 02, 2013, 03:40:09 PM
Hmmm.... wallow in mud with a racist, bigoted, juvenile creep or enjoy my day with my kids? Hmmm.....


More name calling.

Look in a mirror.

Quote
[url]http://ak1.ostkcdn.com/images/products/5296815/P13108119.jpeg[/url]
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Will Sweat on April 02, 2013, 05:23:58 PM
And if the top photo showed the posteriors of prepubescent boys and the bottom photo depicted 3 leering priests?


Had the photo shown this it would have been offensive also.  However, the truth is that the teaching of many Islamic scholars have approved of sexual relations with a small child and animals.  Ayatollah Khomeini wrote in Tahrirolvasyleh (vol. 4, Darol Elm, Gom, Iran, 1990)  that, "A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However, he should not penetrate; sodomising the child is OK. If the man penetrates and damages the child then he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl, however, does not count as one of his four permanent wives. The man will not be eligible to marry the girl's sister."  The Ayatollah also said, "It is better for a girl to marry in such a time when she would begin menstruation at her husband's house rather than her father's home. Any father marrying his daughter so young will have a permanent place in heaven."  Further he stated that, "A man can have sex with animals such as sheeps, cows, camels and so on. However, he should kill the animal after he has his orgasm. He should not sell the meat to the people in his own village; however, selling the meat to the next door village should be fine."   From the Little Green Book of sayings from Ayatollah Khomeini (page 47 Source: Homa) he states, "If one commits the act of sodomy with a cow, an ewe, or a camel, their urine and their excrements become impure, and even their milk may no longer be consumed. The animal must then be killed and as quickly as possible and burned."  Therefore it becomes a difficult analogy as while there are a great many Priest who have committed sin neither the Church nor any Church leader have issued written directives that such behavior is acceptable.  The truth is that it would be difficult for Islam to set a "standard" of having sexual relations with a child when it is clear from the Koran that Muhammad was married and to Aisha as early as the age of seven and according to the hadith of the Sunan of Abu Dawud, volume 2, #2116, "Aisha said, "The Apostle of Allah married me when I was seven years old." (The narrator Sulaiman said: "Or six years."). "He had intercourse with me when I was 9 years old."

Thankfully the Catholic Church has issued an apology and attempted to atone for these very wrong acts  along with many other things that they have done in the past.  Although not perfect they have shown a desire to seek forgiveness. 

Maybe the religion of islam will do the same in the future regarding the teachings of the koran and the manner it has been interpreted by many clerics.  One can only hope.  However until this is done it is a fair criticism to examine what Islam teaches and how those beliefs are carried out. 

Pope Benedict ref. child sex abuse:

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/feb/11/world/la-fg-pope-sex-abuse-20130212 (http://articles.latimes.com/2013/feb/11/world/la-fg-pope-sex-abuse-20130212)

List of Apologies offered by Pope John Paul II:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_apologies_made_by_Pope_John_Paul_II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_apologies_made_by_Pope_John_Paul_II)

Article ref. Pope John Paul II: 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2000/mar/13/catholicism.religion (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2000/mar/13/catholicism.religion)

Ref. Ayatollah Khomeini (and others):

http://www.harrington-sites.com/Islam.htm (http://www.harrington-sites.com/Islam.htm)

http://www.answering-islam.de/Shamoun/bestiality.htm (http://www.answering-islam.de/Shamoun/bestiality.htm)

http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/childbrides.htm (http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/childbrides.htm)

http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/childbrides.htm (http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/childbrides.htm)

http://www.booksie.com/non-fiction/article/taufiq_zia_khan/islam-sanctions-sex-with-minors (http://www.booksie.com/non-fiction/article/taufiq_zia_khan/islam-sanctions-sex-with-minors)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on April 02, 2013, 08:22:15 PM
Thanks Will,

These pictures just point out what is really going on.

I for one won't pretend it is not.

Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Dandy_Richardvilles on April 02, 2013, 08:26:52 PM
Had the photo shown this it would have been offensive also.  However, the truth is that the teaching of many Islamic scholars have approved of sexual relations with a small child and animals.  Ayatollah Khomeini wrote in Tahrirolvasyleh (vol. 4, Darol Elm, Gom, Iran, 1990)  that, "A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However, he should not penetrate; sodomising the child is OK. If the man penetrates and damages the child then he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl, however, does not count as one of his four permanent wives. The man will not be eligible to marry the girl's sister."  The Ayatollah also said, "It is better for a girl to marry in such a time when she would begin menstruation at her husband's house rather than her father's home. Any father marrying his daughter so young will have a permanent place in heaven."  Further he stated that, "A man can have sex with animals such as sheeps, cows, camels and so on. However, he should kill the animal after he has his orgasm. He should not sell the meat to the people in his own village; however, selling the meat to the next door village should be fine."   From the Little Green Book of sayings from Ayatollah Khomeini (page 47 Source: Homa) he states, "If one commits the act of sodomy with a cow, an ewe, or a camel, their urine and their excrements become impure, and even their milk may no longer be consumed. The animal must then be killed and as quickly as possible and burned."  Therefore it becomes a difficult analogy as while there are a great many Priest who have committed sin neither the Church nor any Church leader have issued written directives that such behavior is acceptable.  The truth is that it would be difficult for Islam to set a "standard" of having sexual relations with a child when it is clear from the Koran that Muhammad was married and to Aisha as early as the age of seven and according to the hadith of the Sunan of Abu Dawud, volume 2, #2116, "Aisha said, "The Apostle of Allah married me when I was seven years old." (The narrator Sulaiman said: "Or six years."). "He had intercourse with me when I was 9 years old."

Thankfully the Catholic Church has issued an apology and attempted to atone for these very wrong acts  along with many other things that they have done in the past.  Although not perfect they have shown a desire to seek forgiveness. 

Maybe the religion of islam will do the same in the future regarding the teachings of the koran and the manner it has been interpreted by many clerics.  One can only hope.  However until this is done it is a fair criticism to examine what Islam teaches and how those beliefs are carried out. 

Pope Benedict ref. child sex abuse:

[url]http://articles.latimes.com/2013/feb/11/world/la-fg-pope-sex-abuse-20130212[/url] ([url]http://articles.latimes.com/2013/feb/11/world/la-fg-pope-sex-abuse-20130212[/url])

List of Apologies offered by Pope John Paul II:

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_apologies_made_by_Pope_John_Paul_II[/url] ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_apologies_made_by_Pope_John_Paul_II[/url])

Article ref. Pope John Paul II: 

[url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2000/mar/13/catholicism.religion[/url] ([url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2000/mar/13/catholicism.religion[/url])

Ref. Ayatollah Khomeini (and others):

[url]http://www.harrington-sites.com/Islam.htm[/url] ([url]http://www.harrington-sites.com/Islam.htm[/url])

[url]http://www.answering-islam.de/Shamoun/bestiality.htm[/url] ([url]http://www.answering-islam.de/Shamoun/bestiality.htm[/url])

[url]http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/childbrides.htm[/url] ([url]http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/childbrides.htm[/url])

[url]http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/childbrides.htm[/url] ([url]http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/childbrides.htm[/url])

[url]http://www.booksie.com/non-fiction/article/taufiq_zia_khan/islam-sanctions-sex-with-minors[/url] ([url]http://www.booksie.com/non-fiction/article/taufiq_zia_khan/islam-sanctions-sex-with-minors[/url])


Will,

First of all, I'm not trying to defend Islam nor am I trying to bash Catholicism, so keep that in mind.  The reference was made to help bring a point home to Pax.  If you've read his other posts you know what I'm talking about. 

If the thread had been titled "Islam-Down on the Farm (Animals) and Loving It" I might have expected the juvenile bestiality stuff.  You're right, it is offensive, funny how no one else filed an objection before I did...perhaps they're not offended when the insults are against Islam or Buddhism, or anything with which they are not affiliated.  Imagine that. 

I'll take your word on what AK taught.  Knowing that he was a vile, murderous, demented individual nothing would surprise me.  One issue though, does one lunatic, or a dozen, speak for the entire religion?  By the same line of argument, Pax speaks for all Christianity.  What a revolting thought.

It is also a fair criticism to say that it appears you demand far more from Islam than you do from the Catholic church.

Finally, if Pax and Monroe Native want to start that bestiality thread, they are free to do so as it appears the MT Administrator doesn't seem to mind.  Then perhaps this thread could actually stay on point and might even yield some meaningful commentary.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on April 02, 2013, 08:34:35 PM
I'll take your word on what AK taught.  Knowing that he was a vile, murderous, demented individual nothing would surprise me.  One issue though, does one lunatic, or a dozen, speak for the entire religion? 

It does.

He is / was a major leader of the Religion - and yes - it is filled with vile, murderous, demented individuals who do vile, murderous, demented acts.

If you study Islam the goal is to eliminate the infidel, and to make them conform to Islam or be eliminated.

How many Religions are there in Iran?  How many in Saudi Arabia?  What is happening in Egypt?

You can pretend that Islam is a peaceful, loving, caring, religion, but it is anything but.

I for one am not going to be naive and "tolerant" to the point that I am put to death or jailed for my religious beliefs.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Dandy_Richardvilles on April 02, 2013, 08:59:38 PM
Monroe Native,

I'm not sure whether it's your reading comprehension skills, your sweeping generalizations, your straw man arguments or a combination of them all, but you always bring so little to the conversation. 
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Will Sweat on April 02, 2013, 09:08:44 PM
Will,

First of all, I'm not trying to defend Islam nor am I trying to bash Catholicism, so keep that in mind. 

You're right, it is offensive, funny how no one else filed an objection before I did...perhaps they're not offended when the insults are against Islam or Buddhism, or anything with which they are not affiliated.  Imagine that. 

By the same line of argument, Pax speaks for all Christianity.  What a revolting thought.

It is also a fair criticism to say that it appears you demand far more from Islam than you do from the Catholic church.

OK . . but it came across as a snipe at the Catholic Church and while they have failed they have also attempted to atone for such failures - which while late, remains admirable. 

I find it juvenile but not offensive given my understanding of the Koran and what has been taught (incorrectly or not) by many Islamic scholars. 

Pax is not an accepted leader (that I know of) within the Church and therefore speaks with less volume or authority.  In terms of "teaching" the real issue is that the majority Islamic community (outside of CAIR in the US) does not come out against such teachings this implies that they either agree with it or do not wish to upset the apple cart and no matter which they are wrong. 

I don't demand more of Islam than I do any other faith but I would request that if they wish to be taken as a serious religion they admit the errors they have made.  Although Islam does not have a "Pope" or a centralized church they do have great power and community (Ramadan and the pilgrimage to Mecca) and yet as a faith they have not denounced these things - so, is it the teaching of Islam or not and if it isn't why are the leaders not compelled to speak out.  Shoot - leave the controversial stuff (sex with children and animals) out of the equation and why does Islam not come out against the treatment of homosexuals and women.  More importantly . . . why does our government cozy up to countries that subscribe to such mistreatment of humans. 

Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on April 02, 2013, 09:46:07 PM
Monroe Native,

I'm not sure whether it's your reading comprehension skills, your sweeping generalizations, your straw man arguments or a combination of them all, but you always bring so little to the conversation.

Ad Hominem.

What did this insult post bring to the party?

What other names do you post under?
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Dandy_Richardvilles on April 02, 2013, 09:48:11 PM
Will,

If you can provide citations where the Koran sanctions bestiality I'd appreciate it.   

Sorry, but one cleric's fatwa does not speak for the religion itself or for the beliefs of all the religion's adherents.

Now if you can provide those cites I'll get to reading.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Dandy_Richardvilles on April 02, 2013, 09:55:40 PM
Ad Hominem.

What did this insult post bring to the party?

What other names do you post under?

Mmmm like Moaner?  Look pal, you do put words in my mouth, you do make sweeping generalizations, and you don't follow the point I'm making.  It is also a fact that you add practically nothing to the conversation.  Ad hominem?  You haven't seen an ad hominem from me. 

I have one and only one name, so there you go.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on April 02, 2013, 10:03:52 PM
(http://images52.fotki.com/v729/photos/1/1222605/5411528/GoatE-vi.gif)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on April 02, 2013, 10:05:19 PM
(http://i.qkme.me/3pvcpi.jpg)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on April 02, 2013, 10:08:29 PM
(http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/small/1003/you-might-be-a-taliban-if-taliban-goat-lover-demotivational-poster-1267809341.jpg)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on April 02, 2013, 10:11:12 PM
(http://www.sullivan-county.com/images1/rel_peace.jpg)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Pax on April 03, 2013, 12:16:26 AM
   It seems Dandy has a fetish for Pax like Pax has for bacon.  Here's to bacon, and Muslims!!!

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-NTUzOMdT3TI/USBJuvVkPrI/AAAAAAAAaeo/TSX5qFLvrA4/s640/HWAk.jpg)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Pax on April 03, 2013, 12:22:56 AM
   Speaking of fetishes:

Sex with Animals in Islam (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=FS5Xpdu4ELE#ws)

   What say you now, DandyMan? Anything pertinent to the topic?
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Pax on April 03, 2013, 12:30:40 AM
  On the plus side, if he ever divorces this one and gets remarried he won't have to change the pictures on his mantle:

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-IKxm5yv3A2c/T8z5n4lM7VI/AAAAAAAALFs/cYmyccivuN4/s1600/0000000000+jim.jpg)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Dandy_Richardvilles on April 03, 2013, 05:45:42 AM
   It seems Dandy has a fetish for Pax like Pax has for bacon.  Here's to bacon, and Muslims!!!

([url]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-NTUzOMdT3TI/USBJuvVkPrI/AAAAAAAAaeo/TSX5qFLvrA4/s640/HWAk.jpg[/url])


Sure I do.  Part of the lure is that sexy facial hair you have.  I also feel good giving you the attention you so desperately crave.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Dandy_Richardvilles on April 03, 2013, 05:50:28 AM
   Speaking of fetishes:

Sex with Animals in Islam ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=FS5Xpdu4ELE#ws[/url])

   What say you now, DandyMan? Anything pertinent to the topic?


What I say is this...The first portion of the video essentially says nothing more than Will said above.  Quotes from AK, great.  Now please cite the sections of the primary source (Koran) that sanction bestiality, and I'll read them.

The second part of the video lists a few people arrested for having sex with animals.  That never happens anywhere outside the Muslim world, and certainly never here in the U.S., right?  Cite the sections of the Koran so I can read them.  Try harder.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Will Sweat on April 03, 2013, 07:17:03 AM
Will,

If you can provide citations where the Koran sanctions bestiality I'd appreciate it.   

Sorry, but one cleric's fatwa does not speak for the religion itself or for the beliefs of all the religion's adherents.

Now if you can provide those cites I'll get to reading.


Dandy -

There in is the issue.  The Koran speaks of many things and holds firm principles on homosexuality, polygamy, rape and pedophilia yet does not prohibit nor mention sexual relations with animals. 

It would be reasonable to say that as the Koran does not mention bestiality that it would not be acceptable, if one follows the thought that anything not covered by the guiding / foundational text then it would not be part of the religious doctrine.  Normally, I would agree with this and largely I do.  That said the issue within Islam is that because there is no prohibition and because many Islamic scholars have either refused to address it or have given tacit approval it creates great confusion. 

While the Koran does not mention it the Hadith (a collection of verses by Mohammad) does touch upon it and contradicts itself in doing so.  Consider from the Hadith, Sahih (arabic for genuine / authentic sound) as translated by Abdullah ibn Abbas the Sahih Abu Dawud 38:4449 reads: The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: If anyone has sexual intercourse with an animal, kill him and kill it along with him. I (Ikrimah) said: I asked him (Ibn Abbas): What offence can be attributed to the animal/ He replied: I think he (the Prophet) disapproved of its flesh being eaten when such a thing had been done to it.  So, it would seem that Mohammad said such behavior would be inappropriate.  However the very next Sahih (Abu Dawud 38:4450) reads: There is no prescribed punishment for one who has sexual intercourse with an animal.  This is difficult to reconcile because of the very descriptive and certain punishments that the Koran (along with Hadith) holds for many other offenses against Islam. 

One very noted and accepted Islamic Scholar Imam al-Nawawi (1234 – 1278 AD) wrote: Our companions have said that if the penile head has penetrated a woman's anus, or a man's anus, or an animal's vagina or its anus then it is necessary to wash whether the one being penetrated is alive or dead, young or old, whether it was done intentionally or absentmindedly, whether it was done willfully or forcefully.

In my opinion the issue is that because the Koran does not address this (bestiality) and because many Islamic Scholars (leaders) have said such behavior is acceptable it gives the impression, correctly or not, that the religion is "OK" with it.  Understand, I believe this is (using your earlier analogy) similar to when the Catholic Church stood silent in the face of the criminal behavior of some Priest (pedophilia).  It gave the impression that the Church, while not "approving", would not take a moral stance and was simply allowing an action to continue.  The Church faced, IMO, very legitimate criticism for this just as I believe the religion of Islam ought to face very legitimate criticism for not only looking the otherway regarding bestiality but for the religions teachings and treatment of homosexuals, pedophiles and women. 

Sorry this is so long but wanted to try and give you a concise answer.  A few good resources on Islam can be found at the following links. 

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Top_10_Controversial_Verses_in_the_Qur'an (http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Top_10_Controversial_Verses_in_the_Qur'an)

http://quran.com/ (http://quran.com/)

http://www.dar-us-salam.com/TheNobleQuran/ (http://www.dar-us-salam.com/TheNobleQuran/)

http://www.wright-house.com/religions/islam/Quran.html (http://www.wright-house.com/religions/islam/Quran.html)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Dandy_Richardvilles on April 03, 2013, 09:30:19 AM
Dandy -

There in is the issue.  The Koran speaks of many things and holds firm principles on homosexuality, polygamy, rape and pedophilia yet does not prohibit nor mention sexual relations with animals. 

It would be reasonable to say that as the Koran does not mention bestiality that it would not be acceptable, if one follows the thought that anything not covered by the guiding / foundational text then it would not be part of the religious doctrine.  Normally, I would agree with this and largely I do.  That said the issue within Islam is that because there is no prohibition and because many Islamic scholars have either refused to address it or have given tacit approval it creates great confusion. 

While the Koran does not mention it the Hadith (a collection of verses by Mohammad) does touch upon it and contradicts itself in doing so.  Consider from the Hadith, Sahih (arabic for genuine / authentic sound) as translated by Abdullah ibn Abbas the Sahih Abu Dawud 38:4449 reads: The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: If anyone has sexual intercourse with an animal, kill him and kill it along with him. I (Ikrimah) said: I asked him (Ibn Abbas): What offence can be attributed to the animal/ He replied: I think he (the Prophet) disapproved of its flesh being eaten when such a thing had been done to it.  So, it would seem that Mohammad said such behavior would be inappropriate.  However the very next Sahih (Abu Dawud 38:4450) reads: There is no prescribed punishment for one who has sexual intercourse with an animal.  This is difficult to reconcile because of the very descriptive and certain punishments that the Koran (along with Hadith) holds for many other offenses against Islam. 

One very noted and accepted Islamic Scholar Imam al-Nawawi (1234 – 1278 AD) wrote: Our companions have said that if the penile head has penetrated a woman's anus, or a man's anus, or an animal's vagina or its anus then it is necessary to wash whether the one being penetrated is alive or dead, young or old, whether it was done intentionally or absentmindedly, whether it was done willfully or forcefully.

In my opinion the issue is that because the Koran does not address this (bestiality) and because many Islamic Scholars (leaders) have said such behavior is acceptable it gives the impression, correctly or not, that the religion is "OK" with it.  Understand, I believe this is (using your earlier analogy) similar to when the Catholic Church stood silent in the face of the criminal behavior of some Priest (pedophilia).  It gave the impression that the Church, while not "approving", would not take a moral stance and was simply allowing an action to continue.  The Church faced, IMO, very legitimate criticism for this just as I believe the religion of Islam ought to face very legitimate criticism for not only looking the otherway regarding bestiality but for the religions teachings and treatment of homosexuals, pedophiles and women. 

Sorry this is so long but wanted to try and give you a concise answer.  A few good resources on Islam can be found at the following links. 

[url]http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Top_10_Controversial_Verses_in_the_Qur'an[/url] ([url]http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Top_10_Controversial_Verses_in_the_Qur'an[/url])

[url]http://quran.com/[/url] ([url]http://quran.com/[/url])

[url]http://www.dar-us-salam.com/TheNobleQuran/[/url] ([url]http://www.dar-us-salam.com/TheNobleQuran/[/url])

[url]http://www.wright-house.com/religions/islam/Quran.html[/url] ([url]http://www.wright-house.com/religions/islam/Quran.html[/url])


Will,

At this point, no one has referred me to a section of the Koran that sanctions bestiality.  On that it seems we might agree

I find it difficult to give greater credence to apocryphal works that contradict each other, and in which a person expresses what he thinks Mohammed thought. 

One possible reconciliation of the latter statement is that it is a statement of fact based upon the contents of the Koran.  However I  think the more problematic reconciliation involves AK's comments in relation to the death penalty you reference.  Perhaps we have a crazy old man who doesn't speak for everyone, as I stated earlier.  We have a lot of Christians misinterpreting the Bible, matter of fact you don't have to look too far to find some of them.  Their misinterpretations do not become legitimate because of any religious title these people may have.

My "analogy" was intended to point out the juvenile and unwarranted cheap shot that was being taken, and how the poster would feel if someone took a similar unwarranted cheap shot at their religion.  Regardless of how the Catholic leadership mishandled the matter with children, if you thought I was accusing of them of approving, tacitly or otherwise, what took place I can assure you I was not. 

Remember that I am not arguing anything in relation to Islam's positions on pedophilia, women, homosexuals or anything else.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Will Sweat on April 03, 2013, 09:51:27 AM
I find it difficult to give greater credence to apocryphal works that contradict each other, and in which a person expresses what he thinks Mohammed thought. 

Perhaps we have a crazy old man who doesn't speak for everyone, as I stated earlier.  We have a lot of Christians misinterpreting the Bible, matter of fact you don't have to look too far to find some of them.  Their misinterpretations do not become legitimate because of any religious title these people may have.

Shortend this just for the sake of brevity (not that I will ever be good at that). 

I think that is really the problem.  While many Religious faiths have a large controlling body, Islam to my knowledge, does not.  Therefore it would be, IMO, the responsibility of those in leadership to correct other leaders publically for what could be a wrong interpretation of Islam and largely they have not done this.  As such, I don't know if the interpretations are inaccurate however I do believe that there is such contradictory evidence offered by accepted leaders that criticism is legitimate.  IMO, the real issues is that this isn't about individual believers of Islam as I would willingly accept the overwhelming majority are reasonable decent people.  The trouble is that a few, high profile, "leaders" have helped to create this perception (fair or not) and until the great majority of Muslims denounce it the stain will be present (again, not saying this is "fair" but it is the way things work).   

I do not believe you were making any accusations about the Catholic Church and understood that.  I also accept that you have not addressed the issues of homosexuality, polygamy, rape and pedophilia as they relate to Islam. 

While I don't think questioning any faith in a disrespectful manner is appropriate, the truth is that there are very real issues within Islam, IMO.  Having said that, I also felt the criticism that the Catholic Church endured (and still endures) is warranted.  I also agree that many so called Christian leaders have misused the Bible (think Westborough Baptist Church) but in most of these cases the greater Church body (leadership) has denounced these actions which places on public record that the Church itself disputes such translation. 

Anyhow - thx's for being civil - it is great to have open and honest discussions. 

Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on April 03, 2013, 09:59:45 AM
Excelsior -

This is what they do.... 

When they are in the Minority they conform to the norms and they are peaceful.

When they are even they start getting aggressive.

When they are the majority they start executing the minorities that refuse to convert.

Look at what is going on in Egypt right now.  How openly can Christians practice in Iran, Saudi Arabia.....  the list goes on and on.

In the US we are taught to be tolerant of different religions and viewpoints.  It is a mistake to assign our value system to others when the evidence shows they are not - and Islam is not.

Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Dandy_Richardvilles on April 03, 2013, 10:11:07 AM
Shortend this just for the sake of brevity (not that I will ever be good at that). 

I think that is really the problem.  While many Religious faiths have a large controlling body, Islam to my knowledge, does not.  Therefore it would be, IMO, the responsibility of those in leadership to correct other leaders publically for what could be a wrong interpretation of Islam and largely they have not done this.  As such, I don't know if the interpretations are inaccurate however I do believe that there is such contradictory evidence offered by accepted leaders that criticism is legitimate.  IMO, the real issues is that this isn't about individual believers of Islam as I would willingly accept the overwhelming majority are reasonable decent people.  The trouble is that a few, high profile, "leaders" have helped to create this perception (fair or not) and until the great majority of Muslims denounce it the stain will be present (again, not saying this is "fair" but it is the way things work).   

I do not believe you were making any accusations about the Catholic Church and understood that.  I also accept that you have not addressed the issues of homosexuality, polygamy, rape and pedophilia as they relate to Islam. 

While I don't think questioning any faith in a disrespectful manner is appropriate, the truth is that there are very real issues within Islam, IMO.  Having said that, I also felt the criticism that the Catholic Church endured (and still endures) is warranted.  I also agree that many so called Christian leaders have misused the Bible (think Westborough Baptist Church) but in most of these cases the greater Church body (leadership) has denounced these actions which places on public record that the Church itself disputes such translation. 

Anyhow - thx's for being civil - it is great to have open and honest discussions. 



In regard to the high profile leaders and the most abominable positions taken, the squeaky wheel gets the grease, in this case the press coverage.  We never hear much from those we would consider to be moderates because they aren't "sexy", and plenty of moderates do exist.  One of the problems here is the poor job done by almost all news channels in covering world news in general.  Out of all the channels I've watched I would say CNN International does the best job, although not everyone can get that station.  Another issue with the public criticism is the intimidation factor, which has been painfully obvious ever since The Satanic Verses. 
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Will Sweat on April 03, 2013, 10:20:05 AM
In regard to the high profile leaders and the most abominable positions taken, the squeaky wheel gets the grease, in this case the press coverage.  We never hear much from those we would consider to be moderates because they aren't "sexy", and plenty of moderates do exist.  One of the problems here is the poor job done by almost all news channels in covering world news in general.  Out of all the channels I've watched I would say CNN International does the best job, although not everyone can get that station.  Another issue with the public criticism is the intimidation factor, which has been painfully obvious ever since The Satanic Verses. 

Agreed.  I would think that CAIR could have an impact in not only coming forward but also in overcoming the intimidation factor.  However as I am not a Muslim, I may not understand the reasons why they don't do this.  Until someone does and it is given as much credence as those who thrive on controversy the perception will remain. 
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on April 03, 2013, 10:34:41 AM
Agreed.  I would think that CAIR could have an impact in not only coming forward but also in overcoming the intimidation factor.  However as I am not a Muslim, I may not understand the reasons why they don't do this.  Until someone does and it is given as much credence as those who thrive on controversy the perception will remain.

The perception will remain BECAUSE THE PERCEPTION IS REALITY.

They don't do it because their end goal is there is only one religion - and everyone belongs to it.

There is far too much evidence that you would have to ignore to have a differing opinion.

Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on April 03, 2013, 04:31:52 PM
I hope you are right, but there is evidence to the contrary in some areas.

I think the Zionists may be why this pocket of Christianity still exists.  I could be wrong.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Baggins on April 03, 2013, 05:52:28 PM
I do not believe that all Muslim majorities result in fanaticism.

In Hezbollah stronghold, Lebanese Christians find respect, stability

more at:   [url]http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2012/1221/In-Hezbollah-stronghold-Lebanese-Christians-find-respect-stability[/url] ([url]http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2012/1221/In-Hezbollah-stronghold-Lebanese-Christians-find-respect-stability[/url])



As that might be true, I would rather think it to be the exception, not the majority...And don't get me started on how they treat the Jews... 8*
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on April 03, 2013, 07:32:24 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Lebanon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Lebanon)

Islam is ~54% of the Lebanon population - and split between two sects that really don't like each other.

Christianity makes up ~41% of the population.

I would say that Lebanon is at the tipping point....  but the 2 competing sects on the Muslim side is probably evening out the equation.

Now - what is the % Christianity in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria, etc?  Even Turkey is going strongly towards Islam - past the tipping point.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Professor H on April 04, 2013, 09:45:51 AM
Folks should avoid stereotypes and prejudices against a group of people.

A Muslim fraternity from the University of Texas @ Dallas took to the streets to protest against domestic violence.

(https://upworthy-production.s3.amazonaws.com/nugget/515b261f14db030002008109/attachments/ALM.jpg)
Where are the "women"?   
Actions are louder than words - just sayin...

Another thread somewhere pointed out that while yes there are the occasional successful "women" in Islam,  they are often family of powerful leaders or the rich.

The real lesson will be to watch the events unfolding in Egypt
You are seeing the once progressive Islamic country turned into the New Islam...
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on April 04, 2013, 10:52:22 AM
There were females around the Frats I hung out at.....

They also showed up at events.

I agree - actions speak louder than words.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Baggins on April 04, 2013, 11:05:06 AM
CIA World Factbook indicates that Lebanon is:

Muslim 59.7% (Shia, Sunni, Druze, Isma'ilite, Alawite or Nusayri)

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/le.html (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/le.html)

Islam has numerous sects just like Christianity. 


True, but most Christian sects don't go out of their way to kill each other for differences of practices...I'm not making this stuff up...Oh, and I'm talking about NOW, in the real world, not past history of hundreds and thousands of years ago.

The truth remains (as I see it) that Islam, as a religion, is extremely antiquated and still acts as if the crusades were yesterday... :-\
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on April 04, 2013, 11:13:25 AM

The truth remains (as I see it) that Islam, as a religion, is extremely antiquated and still acts as if the crusades were yesterday... :-\

+1!

Please also note that the % of people Islam increased from my data to the CIA fact book data.

Looks like Lebanon is closing in on the point where they will start actively persecuting people for being Christian.  The step after that is they EXTERMINATE you if you insist on being something other than Islam.

Again - not making this up, and this goes on EVERYDAY.

Islam is not a peaceful religion.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Will Sweat on April 04, 2013, 02:34:57 PM
Not all Muslims wish to exterminate Christians.

I think you may be confusing all Muslims with some Muslim sects.

I agree with you however you must admit / acknowledge that until the "moderate" Muslims stop the most extreme within the faith this will be the perception. 

The same is true with Republicans and the so called "tea party" and Democrat's with the so called "liberal wing".  Groups, right or wrong, are defined by the most vocal elements until they say otherwise. 
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Baggins on April 04, 2013, 04:05:08 PM
I agree with you however you must admit / acknowledge that until the "moderate" Muslims stop the most extreme within the faith this will be the perception. 

The same is true with Republicans and the so called "tea party" and Democrat's with the so called "liberal wing".  Groups, right or wrong, are defined by the most vocal elements until they say otherwise.


That my friend is a sad truth of our world and human nature...


*Yes, not ALL Muslims want Christians dead, or even hate them in any sense of extremism...Yet, until the rest of the Muslim world stands up with hearty proclamations of condemnation for those of the extreme and actively work to put an end to it's existence, they will all be seen with a degree of distrust and foreboding, not just in this country, but world wide...Right or wrong, that is the way of things.

I also believe that our nation needs to work to better it's self over taking on the roll of world protector and prosecutor and making those enemy's they tell us to fear so much and use to scare us into freedom losing sheep...I love our service men and women, and support them with all do respect.  Yet, our nation has wrongly put them in harms way for conflicts that have no real bearing on this nation(other than to say it's for profit, or oil, or political chest thumping).  By our own actions we(and by that I mean the government, for the most part without OUR consent) have become what we fought so dearly to stop 70 years ago.  We have made ourselves that imperialistic entity once damned by this very country.  This all happened under our noses, while a few may have seen it coming and tried to warn, they were taunted and ridiculed by those that now see our country for what it has become and now yell the loudest, all of which still falls on deaf ears and closed minds. 


You don't have to agree with me, all I ask is that you give what I say a moment of serious consideration...
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Baggins on April 04, 2013, 04:11:20 PM
I realize this may not be the proper category for my rant, but that's what happens when it hit's you spontaneously like that... :o
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on April 04, 2013, 05:48:06 PM
I agree with you Baggins....

Except - how are we imperialistic?

We haven't been staying and leaving troops in place.  We turn tail and run - and then do it over again.

Imperialistic seems like colonialism to me - that isn't us.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on April 04, 2013, 06:27:07 PM
Quote
DUBAI - Sunni Muslim-ruled Gulf Arab states are often wary of subversion from their powerful Shi'ite neighbor Iran, but Dubai's veteran police chief reserves most of his wrath for the "dictators" of the Muslim Brotherhood.

Dhahi Khalfan's suspicions focus mostly on the Egyptian branch of the Sunni Islamist organization, propelled to power in the most populous Arab country in elections since the overthrow of President Hosni Mubarak in a popular uprising in 2011.

Related:
Gulf states call on Iran not to meddle in affairs
Egypt becoming a nightmare for Muslim Brothers
"The Brotherhood as a ruling party in Egypt has no right to interfere with other countries. They are no longer a political party and should respect the independence of other countries," Khalfan told Reuters in an interview this week.

He reiterated charges that Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood was linked to an alleged plot to topple the UAE government, saying the group's ultimate goal was Islamist rule in all Gulf states.


http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Muslim-Brotherhood-sowing-subversion-in-Gulf-states-308530 (http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Muslim-Brotherhood-sowing-subversion-in-Gulf-states-308530)

More proof of the peaceful nature of Islam.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Will Sweat on April 05, 2013, 07:17:19 AM
I agree with you Baggins....

Except - how are we imperialistic?

We haven't been staying and leaving troops in place.  We turn tail and run - and then do it over again.

Imperialistic seems like colonialism to me - that isn't us.

I believe the United States has acted in an imperialistic manner over the last 20 years (probably more) by taking actions against countries (or leaders) that were not a direct threat to our national security. 

I believe it is fine to act in protection of oneself and ones allies however we have, IMO, gone beyond this and wished to force our ideals / beliefs on others (i.e. providing democracy, if you will).  It is a fine thing to wish to see a country or people live freely however we should not enforce our will on others.  This has given us a "pick and chose" policy.  We supported the uprising in Egypt but did nothing in Iran (were those "democratic idealist" in Iran less worthy?  In truth given Iran's history democracy and a legitimate uprising of the people had a better chance on not sliding into what Egypt appears to be). 

I would like for the US to stop focusing on outside forces unless those forces are a threat.  If we find the manner in which a government treats the people objectionable than we should not deal with that Government. 
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Pax on April 05, 2013, 08:18:34 AM
     People of various faiths have been getting along rather swimmingly in two predominant Muslim countries for 100s of years: Syria and Iran.  The "western" involvement in attempting to violently replace the Syrian government with something more to its liking (i.e. puppet state) has had a devastating effect on the religious communities there, and the imperialists hope to do the same thing to Iran.  Both without valid reasoning or provocation to do so...  In these such instances it is human nature to become an anti-western reactionary - which only further discredits them in the wee minds of the MSM-propagandized masses. 

     Islam has bloody borders, most certainly, but the blood spilt by the US!, NATO and others organizations supposedly acting on behalf of western civilization (and with their pilfered fiat "monies") far exceeds that of the Muslims since the end of the Ottoman Empire.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on April 05, 2013, 10:00:55 AM
I have an Iraqi friend who is a Christian.

He supported Saddam Hussein because he protected the Christians from the various Muslim Sects.  He is not so happy with how the current regime is doing at that.

I also know two Iranians that left during the revolution out of fear for his life.  He may disagree that Christians get along "swimmingly" after the revolution.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Baggins on April 05, 2013, 10:10:57 AM
I agree with you Baggins....

Except - how are we imperialistic?

We haven't been staying and leaving troops in place.  We turn tail and run - and then do it over again.

Imperialistic seems like colonialism to me - that isn't us.


Not so, count the nations of this world that hold American troops in sizable numbers...We are still in Iraq, we are still in Afghanistan, we still have troops on the Saudi peninsula...We still have war camps in S. Korea, Japan, the Philippines, and don't forget Germany...Don't confuse yourself with old world terms like colonization, that part of the game's already done...It's the military arm of a nation that makes it an empire.

Don't get me wrong, I love my country...It's the government that needs to change.  It has become something it was not intended to be.  It's a very simple explanation for an extremely complicated situation, of which our government has put us in, economically and militarily...
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on April 05, 2013, 10:38:57 AM

Not so, count the nations of this world that hold American troops in sizable numbers...We are still in Iraq, we are still in Afghanistan, we still have troops on the Saudi peninsula...We still have war camps in S. Korea, Japan, the Philippines, and don't forget Germany...Don't confuse yourself with old world terms like colonization, that part of the game's already done...It's the military arm of a nation that makes it an empire.

Don't get me wrong, I love my country...It's the government that needs to change.  It has become something it was not intended to be.  It's a very simple explanation for an extremely complicated situation, of which our government has put us in, economically and militarily...

True that.

I was thinking in terms of colonization, taxation, plundering, etc - things that went on during the various Empires throughout history.

We do have troops parked all over the world.

I do agree our government needs to change.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Baggins on April 05, 2013, 10:58:05 AM
Well, I think we've done are fair share of plundering over the years...:P
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on April 05, 2013, 11:37:52 AM
Well, I think we've done are fair share of plundering over the years...:P

But isn't the joke that you want the US to defeat you so you can get rebuilt and the cash infusion?
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Baggins on April 05, 2013, 03:55:24 PM
But isn't the joke that you want the US to defeat you so you can get rebuilt and the cash infusion?


Yeah, the jokes on us...:P
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Professor H on April 07, 2013, 10:48:27 AM

Not so, count the nations of this world that hold American troops in sizable numbers...We are still in Iraq, we are still in Afghanistan, we still have troops on the Saudi peninsula...We still have war camps in S. Korea, Japan, the Philippines, and don't forget Germany...Don't confuse yourself with old world terms like colonization, that part of the game's already done...It's the military arm of a nation that makes it an empire.

Don't get me wrong, I love my country...It's the government that needs to change.  It has become something it was not intended to be.  It's a very simple explanation for an extremely complicated situation, of which our government has put us in, economically and militarily...


The Philippines wouldn't renew the "lease" so the US pulled out of that region.

I found from a NYtimes article -  the Philippines received $408 million in connection with the bases, and the Subic Bay base has pumped more than $344 million a year into the country's economy. and...  About 20,000 Filipino workers are employed there, and the honky-tonk bars of Olongapo and Subic, the two cities that border the installation, are legendary among generations of sailors whose ships have pulled in to Subic's docks. Many predict that the cities will become neon ghost towns.
http://www.nytimes.com/1991/12/28/world/philippines-orders-us-to-leave-strategic-navy-base-at-subic-bay.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm (http://www.nytimes.com/1991/12/28/world/philippines-orders-us-to-leave-strategic-navy-base-at-subic-bay.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm)


I'd say most of the other bases the US has - are supporting local economies enough that those countries aren't looking to "evict" them.

On the topic of Islam and whether it is peaceful or not.

The US has been involved with the Philippine government as they are struggling with radical Islamist in the southern parts of the country.   
It may lead to a presence - not a full fledged "base"  per this article:

Twenty years after the American military left the Philippines, the Pentagon wants back in the former U.S. colony.
Yup, this whole strategic shift to Asia means that the DoD faces the prospect of fighting from a limited number of bases in the Western Pacific; think Hawaii, Guam, Japan and South Korea, oh, and the Marines relatively tiny new base in Australia.
The problem with this, defense planing-types worry, is that China’s new generation of long range ballistic missiles can take out this handful of bases with relative ease.  The solution, create a network of dispersal bases at old World War Two and Cold War facilities that are scattered throughout the islands of the Pacific. American planes, ships and troops could deploy to these bare bones facilities during times of heightened tension, making it harder for an enemy to knock out U.S.  troop concentrations and facilities.
(Yes, there’s been a limited U.S. presence in the southern Philippines aimed at helping the local government defeat Islamic terrorists but this sounds bigger than that.)


Read more: http://defensetech.org/2012/02/10/pentagon-wants-increased-access-to-philippines/#ixzz2PmxGNQb3 (http://defensetech.org/2012/02/10/pentagon-wants-increased-access-to-philippines/#ixzz2PmxGNQb3)
Defense.org
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Baggins on April 07, 2013, 02:01:31 PM
The Philippines wouldn't renew the "lease" so the US pulled out of that region.

I found from a NYtimes article -  the Philippines received $408 million in connection with the bases, and the Subic Bay base has pumped more than $344 million a year into the country's economy. and...  About 20,000 Filipino workers are employed there, and the honky-tonk bars of Olongapo and Subic, the two cities that border the installation, are legendary among generations of sailors whose ships have pulled in to Subic's docks. Many predict that the cities will become neon ghost towns.
[url]http://www.nytimes.com/1991/12/28/world/philippines-orders-us-to-leave-strategic-navy-base-at-subic-bay.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm[/url] ([url]http://www.nytimes.com/1991/12/28/world/philippines-orders-us-to-leave-strategic-navy-base-at-subic-bay.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm[/url])


I'd say most of the other bases the US has - are supporting local economies enough that those countries aren't looking to "evict" them.

On the topic of Islam and whether it is peaceful or not.

The US has been involved with the Philippine government as they are struggling with radical Islamist in the southern parts of the country.   
It may lead to a presence - not a full fledged "base"  per this article:

Twenty years after the American military left the Philippines, the Pentagon wants back in the former U.S. colony.
Yup, this whole strategic shift to Asia means that the DoD faces the prospect of fighting from a limited number of bases in the Western Pacific; think Hawaii, Guam, Japan and South Korea, oh, and the Marines relatively tiny new base in Australia.
The problem with this, defense planing-types worry, is that China’s new generation of long range ballistic missiles can take out this handful of bases with relative ease.  The solution, create a network of dispersal bases at old World War Two and Cold War facilities that are scattered throughout the islands of the Pacific. American planes, ships and troops could deploy to these bare bones facilities during times of heightened tension, making it harder for an enemy to knock out U.S.  troop concentrations and facilities.
(Yes, there’s been a limited U.S. presence in the southern Philippines aimed at helping the local government defeat Islamic terrorists but this sounds bigger than that.)


Read more: [url]http://defensetech.org/2012/02/10/pentagon-wants-increased-access-to-philippines/#ixzz2PmxGNQb3[/url] ([url]http://defensetech.org/2012/02/10/pentagon-wants-increased-access-to-philippines/#ixzz2PmxGNQb3[/url])
Defense.org



You're splitting hairs and missing the point...Do we, or do we not, have a broad military presence around the world...?

All of the excuses of why we are there is so much window dressing.  We are in fact militarily involved in the Philippines, by you own words, so I don't exactly know why you are denying or defending the facts I laid out...We are there to pour fuel on the fire, to instigate a justified a reason for us to be there.  I've given it a lot of thought lately, and the conclusion I've come to disgusts me.

We should not be some self appointed world police...It's an absurd notion, and one that is eagerly, and sadly swallowed by those that think we should be in a constant state of war...Which if you look to history, we have been since the Korean war, when the specter of fear was ingrained in our very culture.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on April 07, 2013, 02:36:45 PM
I would say since the end of WW2 when the Cold War started....

That was when we started parking troops all over the world.

Korea, Viet Nam, and others were just brush fires in the Cold War....

Then that was replaced by the War on Terror - which you could easily argue was an outcome of Afghanistan - which was part of the cold war too.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Will Sweat on April 07, 2013, 04:56:59 PM
I would say since the end of WW2 when the Cold War started....

That was when we started parking troops all over the world.

Korea, Viet Nam, and others were just brush fires in the Cold War....

Then that was replaced by the War on Terror - which you could easily argue was an outcome of Afghanistan - which was part of the cold war too.

You make a powerful case (maybe inadvertently) that we should end the military presence in most of our OCONUS locations - and one that I agree with. 

Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: blue2 on April 07, 2013, 06:03:06 PM
Mixed feelings about occupying foreign lands.  The radical muslims and there are more of them than not want to take over the world.  That's their mission and they occupy every country in Asia and are working an Europe.  China not so much.  They will just shoot them and ask no questions.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on April 07, 2013, 06:23:54 PM
The modern day crusades, but we aren't allowed to call them that.

Muslims vs Western Societies.

You know it is REAL when France gets involved.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on April 30, 2013, 07:29:11 PM
Quote
By Religion Editor Tom Heneghan
(Reuters) - Large majorities in the Muslim world want the Islamic legal and moral code of sharia as the official law in their countries, but they disagree on what it includes and who should be subject to it, an extensive new survey says.
Suicide bombing was mostly rejected In the study by the Washington-based Pew Forum, but it won 40 percent support in the Palestinian territories, 39 percent in Afghanistan, 29 percent in Eygpt and 26 percent in Bangladesh.
Three-quarters of respondents said abortion is morally wrong and 80 percent or more rejected homosexuality and sex outside of marriage.
Over three-quarters of Muslims in the Middle East and North Africa, South Asia and Southeast Asia want sharia courts to decide family law issues such as divorce and property disputes, the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life said on Tuesday.
Views on punishments such as chopping off thieves' hands or decreeing death for apostates is more evenly divided in much of the Islamic world, although more than three-quarters of Muslims in South Asia say they are justified.
Those punishments have helped make sharia controversial in some non-Islamic countries, where some critics say radical Muslims want to impose it on Western societies, but the survey shows views in Muslim countries are far from monolithic.
"Muslims are not equally comfortable with all aspects of sharia," the study said. "Most do not believe it should be applied to non-Muslims."
Unlike codified Western law, sharia is a loosely defined set of moral and legal guidelines based on the Koran, the sayings of Prophet Mohammad (hadith) and Muslim traditions. Its rules and advice cover everything from prayers to personal hygiene.
Amaney Jamal, a Princeton University political scientist who was special adviser for the project, said Muslims in poor and repressive societies tended to identify sharia with basic Islamic values such as equality and social justice.
"In those societies, you tend to see significant support for sharia," she told journalists on a conference call. By contrast, Muslims who have lived under "narrow if not rigid" Islamic systems were less supportive of sharia as the official law.
POLITICS AND VIOLENCE
More than four-fifths of the 38,000 Muslims interviewed in 39 countries said non-Muslims in their countries could practice their faith freely and that this was good.
This view was strongest in South Asia, where 97 percent of Bangladeshis and 96 percent of Pakistanis agreed, while the lowest Middle Eastern result was 77 percent in Egypt.
The survey polled only Muslims and not minorities. In several Muslim countries, embattled Christian minorities say they cannot practice their faith freely and are subject to discrimination and physical attacks.
The survey produced mixed results on questions relating to the relationship between politics and Islam.
Democracy wins slight majorities in key Middle Eastern states - 54 percent in Iraq, 55 percent in Egypt - and falls to 29 percent in Pakistan. By contrast, it stands at 81 percent in Lebanon, 75 percent in Tunisia and 70 percent in Bangladesh.
In most countries surveyed, Muslims were more worried about Islamist militancy than any other form of religious violence.
SEX AND VEILS
Views on whether women should decide themselves if they should wear a headscarf vary greatly, from 89 percent in Tunisia and 79 percent in Indonesia saying yes and 45 percent in Iraq and 30 percent in Afghanistan saying no.
Majorities from 74 percent in Lebanon to 96 percent in Malaysia said wives should always obey their husbands.
Only a minority saw Sunni-Shi'ite tensions as a very big problem, ranging from 38 percent in Lebanon and 34 percent in Pakistan to 23 percent in Iraq and 14 percent in Turkey.
Conflict with other religions loomed larger, with 68 percent in Lebanon saying it was a big problem, 65 percent in Tunisia, 60 percent in Nigeria and 57 percent in Pakistan.
A section of the survey on U.S. Muslims noted they "sometimes more closely resemble other Americans than they do Muslims around the world". Only about half say their closest friends are Muslim, compared to 95 percent of Muslims globally.
(Reporting By Tom Heneghan; Editing by Mike Collett-White and Michael Roddy)


http://ca.news.yahoo.com/many-muslim-world-want-sharia-law-land-survey-160939872.html (http://ca.news.yahoo.com/many-muslim-world-want-sharia-law-land-survey-160939872.html)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on May 07, 2013, 06:57:13 PM
Quote
A mass exodus of Christians is currently underway.  Millions of Christians are being displaced from one end of the Islamic world to the other.
We are reliving the true history of how the Islamic world, much of which prior to the Islamic conquests was almost entirely Christian, came into being.
The U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom recently said: “The flight of Christians out of the region is unprecedented and it’s increasing year by year.”  In our lifetime alone “Christians might disappear altogether from Iraq, Afghanistan, and Egypt.”
Ongoing reports from the Islamic world certainly support this conclusion:  Iraq was the earliest indicator of the fate awaiting Christians once Islamic forces are liberated from the grip of dictators. 
The 2010 Baghdad church attack, which saw nearly 60 Christian worshippers slaughtered, is the tip of a decade-long iceberg.
In 2003, Iraq’s Christian population was at least one million. Today fewer than 400,000 remain—the result of an anti-Christian campaign that began with the U.S. occupation of Iraq, when countless Christian churches were bombed and countless Christians killed, including by crucifixion and beheading. 


Read more: [url]http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/05/07/mass-exodus-christians-from-muslim-world/#ixzz2SeO8hvrr[/url] ([url]http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/05/07/mass-exodus-christians-from-muslim-world/#ixzz2SeO8hvrr[/url])
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Frenchfry on May 07, 2013, 07:57:23 PM

(http://www.thebattlezone.biz/decals/decalpix/dl-mi-127.jpg)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on May 08, 2013, 07:09:45 AM
Islam is good at exterminating Christians.  Why do you think they are fleeing the region?

I don't think they need any encouragement from you Fry.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on June 05, 2013, 09:12:08 AM
Yet this same government has no issue passing laws that violate the beliefs of Christians.

Go figure.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: The Fuzz on June 23, 2013, 09:18:48 PM
I thought this was an interesting read regarding the differences in the Muslim factions of Sunni and Shite.

http://news.yahoo.com/hatred-between-sunnis-shiites-abounds-mideast-234918678.html (http://news.yahoo.com/hatred-between-sunnis-shiites-abounds-mideast-234918678.html)

Hatred between Sunnis, Shiites abounds in Mideast



CAIRO (AP) — It's not hard to find stereotypes, caricatures and outright bigotry when talk in the Middle East turns to the tensions between Islam's two main sects.

Shiites are described as devious, power-hungry corruptors of Islam. Sunnis are called extremist, intolerant oppressors.

Hatreds between the two are now more virulent than ever in the Arab world because of Syria's civil war. On Sunday, officials said four Shiites in a village west of Cairo were beaten to death by Sunnis in a sectarian clash unusual for Egypt.

Hard-line clerics and politicians on both sides in the region have added fuel, depicting the fight as essentially a war of survival for their sect.

But among the public, views are complex. Some sincerely see the other side as wrong — whether on matters of faith or politics. Others see the divisions as purely political, created for cynical aims. Even some who view the other sect negatively fear sectarian flames are burning dangerously out of control. There are those who wish for a return to the days, only a decade or two ago, when the differences did not seem so important and the sects got along better, even intermarried.

And some are simply frustrated that there is so much turmoil over a dispute that dates back to the death of the Prophet Muhammad in the 7th century.

"Fourteen centuries after the death of the prophet, in a region full of destruction, killing, occupation, ignorance and disease, you are telling me about Sunnis and Shiites?" scoffs Ismail al-Hamami, a 67-year-old Sunni Palestinian refugee in Gaza. "We are all Muslims. ... You can't ignore the fact that (Shiites) are Muslims."

Associated Press correspondents spoke to Shiites and Sunnis across the region. Amid the variety of viewpoints, they found a public struggling with anger that is increasingly curdling into hatred.

___

BACKGROUND

The Sunni-Shiite split is rooted in the question of who should succeed Muhammad in leading Muslims after his death in 632. Shiites say the prophet's cousin and son-in-law Ali was his rightful successor but was cheated when authority went to those the Sunnis call the four "Rightfully Guided Caliphs" — Abu Bakr, Omar and Othman and, finally, Ali.

Sunnis are the majority across the Islamic world. In the Middle East, Shiites have strong majorities in Iran, Iraq and Bahrain, with significant communities in Lebanon, Yemen, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and other parts of the Gulf.

Both consider the Quran the word of God. But there are distinctions in theology and religious practice between the two sects.

Some are minor: Shiites pray with their hands by their sides, Sunnis with their hands crossed at their chest or stomach.

Others are significant. Shiites, for example, believe Ali and a string of his descendants, the Imams, had not only rightful political authority after Muhammad but also held a special religious wisdom. Most Shiites believe there were 12 Imams — many of them "martyred" by Sunnis — and the 12th vanished, to one day return and restore justice. Sunnis accuse the Shiites of elevating Ali to the level of Muhammad himself — incorrectly, since Shiites agree that Muhammad was the last of the prophets, a central tenet of Islam.

The bitter disputes of early Islam still resonate. Even secular-minded Shiite parents would never name their child after the resented Abu Bakr, Omar or Othman — or Aisha, a wife of Muhammad, who helped raise a revolt against Ali during his Caliphate. When outgoing Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad visited Egypt earlier this year, the sheik of Al-Azhar, the bastion of Sunni theology, told him sharply that if the sects are to get along, Shiites must stop "insulting" the "companions of the prophet."

But only the most hard-core would say those differences are reason enough to hate each other. For that, politics is needed.

___

IRAQ

If Syria's war has raised the region's sectarian hatreds, the war in Iraq played a big role in unleashing them. After the U.S.-led invasion toppled Saddam Hussein in 2003, the long-oppressed Shiite majority there saw a chance to take power. Sunnis feared the repression would flip onto them. The result was vicious sectarian fighting that lasted until 2008: Sunni extremists pulled Shiite pilgrims from buses and gunned them down; Shiite militiamen kidnapped Sunnis, dumping their tortured bodies later.

ABDUL-SATTAR ABDUL-JABAR, 56, is a Sunni cleric who occasionally preaches at the prominent Abu Hanifa mosque in the Sunni-dominated Azamiyah neighborhood of Baghdad. Two of his sons were killed by Shiite militiamen. He blames the United States and Iran for Iraq's strife.

"Right from the beginning, the Americans were trying to create sectarian rifts," he said. "Iran is a country of regional ambitions. It isn't a Shiite country. It's a country with specific schemes and agendas."

Now he fears the strife is returning, and he blames the Shiite-dominated government.

"We feel the government does not consider us part of the Iraqi nation," he said. "There is no magical solution for this. If the Shiites are convinced to change their politicians, that would be a big help."

AHMED SALEH AHMED, 40, a Sunni, runs a construction company in Baghdad mainly employing Shiites. He is married to a Shiite woman. They live in the Azamiyah neighborhood and raise their two daughters and son as Sunnis.

Still, his wife prays with the small clay stone that Shiites — but not Sunnis — set in front of their prayer rugs. She often visits a Shiite shrine in another Baghdad district. Ahmed sometimes helps his wife's family prepare food for Shiite pilgrims during religious ceremonies. But he admits that there sometimes is tension between the families.

"We were able to contain it and solve it in a civilized way," Ahmed said.

Iraqis like to talk politics, he said, and "when things get heated, we tend to change the subject."

When their children ask about sectarian differences, "we do our best to make these ideas as clear as we can for them so they don't get confused," he said. "We try to avoid discussing sectarian issues in front of the children."

Ahmed believes sectarian tensions have been strained because people have abused the democratic ideas emerging from the Arab Spring.

Democracy "needs open-mindedness, forgiveness and an ability to understand the other," he said. "No human being is born believing in democracy. It's like going to school — you have to study first. Democracy should be for people who want to do good things, not for those who are out for revenge."

HUSSEIN AL-RUBAIE, 46, a Shiite, was jailed for two years under Saddam. His Shiite-majority Sadriya district in Baghdad saw considerable bloodshed during the worst of the strife, and he fears it's returning.

"The whole region is in flames and we are all about to be burnt," he said. "We have a lot of people who are ignorant and easily driven by sectarian feelings."

He sees it among his friends, who include Sunnis. "My friends only whisper about sectarian things because they think it is a shame to talk about such matters," al-Rubaie said, "but I am afraid that the day might come when this soft talking would turn to fighting in the street."

___

LEBANON

Among some of Lebanon's Shiites, it's fashionable to wear a necklace with a medallion in the shape of the fabled double-bladed sword of Ali. It's a mark of community pride at a time when the Shiite group Hezbollah says the sect is endangered by Sunni extremists in the Syrian uprising.

During Lebanon's 1975-1990 civil war, the main fight was between Christians and Muslims. But in the past decade, the most dangerous divide has been between Shiites and Sunnis.

For much of Lebanon's existence, Shiites, who make up about a third of the population, were an impoverished underclass beneath the Christians and Sunnis, each roughly a third also. The Shiite resentment helped the rise of the guerrilla force Hezbollah, on whose might the community won greater power. Now, many Sunnis resent Hezbollah's political domination of the government. The 2005 assassination of Prime Minister Rafik Hariri, a Sunni, increased Sunni anger after Hezbollah members were blamed. Since then, both sides have clashed in the streets.

Syria's civil war has fueled those tensions. Lebanon's Sunnis largely back the mainly Sunni rebellion, while Shiites support President Bashar Assad's regime, which is dominated by his Alawite sect, an offshoot of Shiism. Hezbollah sent fighters to help Assad fight the rebels, enraging Sunnis region-wide.

RANIA, 51, is a Shiite Lebanese banking executive, married to a Sunni and living in Ras Beirut, one of the capital's few mixed neighborhoods.

When she married, at age 22, "I didn't even know what the difference between Sunnis and Shiites is."

Now she's inclined to support Hezbollah. While not a fan of the hard-line group, she believes that Hezbollah and Syria are targeted because of their stances against Israel. She said her husband is anti-Hezbollah and supports Syria's rebels.

Rania, who gave only her first name because she doesn't want to be stigmatized about her social, religious or marital status, said she doesn't talk politics with her husband to avoid arguments.

"I support one (political) side and he supports the other, but we've found a way to live with it," added Rania, who has a 22-year-old daughter.

She said education plays a big role. "I find that the people who make comments about it are the people who are just ignorant, and ignorance feeds hatred and stereotyping," she added.

KHALED CHALLAH is a 28-year-old Syrian Sunni businessman who has lived for years in Lebanon. He comes from a conservative, religious family but only occasionally goes to mosque. He said the only way he would be able to tell the difference between a Sunni mosque and a Shiite one would be if the cleric talked about Syria in the sermon.

"A Shiite imam would speak against the rebels, and call to resist them, and a Sunni sheik would talk against the government in Syria," he said.

He said he still doesn't understand the Shiites' emotional fervor over the battle of Karbala, in which Ali's son, Hussein, was killed by the armies of the Sunni Ummayad dynasty in the 7th century. Hussein's martyrdom is a defining trauma of their faith, deepening their feeling of oppression. Every year, Shiites around the world mark the battle with processions that turn into festivals of mourning, with men lashing or cutting themselves.

"It means much more to Shiites, this battle's memory, than to Sunnis," Challah said.

He said Sunnis "behave sometimes like they are the only Muslims."

Challah called this "very silly. Sunnis and Shiites come from the same root, they worship the same God."

___

IRAN

The Shiite powerhouse of the Middle East is home to a government led by Shiite clerics with oil wealth and a powerful Revolutionary Guard. Tehran has extended its influence in the Arab world, mainly through its alliance with Syria, Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas in the Palestinian territories. Iran has presented that alliance not as sectarian but as the center of "resistance" against Israel.

Sunni Saudi Arabia and other Gulf allies have been trying to stem Iran's influence, in part by warning of the spread of Shiism. Saudi Arabia's hard-line Wahhabi interpretation of Sunni Islam views Shiism as heresy.

REZA TAJABADI, a Shiite cleric in Tehran, blames the Wahhabis — and the related ultra-conservative Salafi movement in Sunni Islam — for stoking sectarian hatred.

"If Wahabis withdrew from creating differences, then Shiites and Sunnis will be able to put aside their minor differences, which are not considerable."

ABOLFATAH DAVATI, another Shiite cleric, points to the historical difference between the two sects. Since Sunnis have been dominant through history, Sunni clerics became subordinate to the rulers. The Shiite clergy, he said, has been independent of power.

"Sunni clerics backed rulers and justified their policies, like the killing of Imam Hussein. Even now, they put their rulers' decision at the top of their agenda," he said.

"In contrast, Shiites have not depended on government, so Sunnis cannot tolerate this and issue religious edicts against them. This increases rifts."

___

EGYPT

In a country where the Muslim population is overwhelmingly Sunni, many Egyptians know little about Shiites. The Shiite population is tiny and largely hidden — so secretive that its numbers are not really known. But ultraconservative Salafis, many of whom view Shiites as infidels, have become more politically powerful and more vocal since the 2011 fall of autocrat Hosni Mubarak. They often preach against Shiism, warning it will spread to Egypt.

MONA MOHAMMED FOUAD is a rarity in Egypt: Her mother is an Iranian Shiite, her father an Egyptian Sunni. She considers herself Sunni.

"People are always surprised and shocked" when they find out her mother is Shiite, said Fouad, 23, who works for a digital marketing company. "But usually as soon as they know, they are very interested and they ask me many questions."

Fouad said her sister has heard work colleagues criticizing Shiites. In her fiance's office they distributed leaflets "telling people to beware of Shiite indoctrination," she added.

"People should read about Shiism. We make fun of foreigners who believe all Muslims are terrorists and we say they are ignorant, but we do the same thing to ourselves," Fouad said. "There is a difference in interpretation, a difference in opinion, but at the end of the day, we believe in the same things."

She told her Sunni fiance from the start that her mother is Shiite. "I told him to tell his family, so if they have any problem with that, we end it immediately."

ANAS AQEEL, a 23-year-old Salafi, spent the first 18 years of his life in Saudi Arabia, where he would sometimes encounter Shiites. "We didn't ever argue over faith. But they alienated me," he said.

"I once saw a Shiite in Saudi Arabia speaking ill of one of the companions of the prophet near his tomb. That one I had to clash with and expel him from the place," Aqeel said.

He worries about Shiites spreading their faith. While he said not all Shiites are alike, he added that "some of them deviate in the Quran and speak badly of the prophet's companions. If someone is wrong and ... he insists on his wrong concept, then we cannot call him a Muslim."

___

PALESTINIAN TERRITORIES

Palestinian Muslims are also almost all Sunnis. Their main connection to the Shiite world has Hamas' alliance with Iran. But those ties were strained when Hamas, which rules the Gaza Strip, broke its connections with Syria because of the civil war.

AHMED MESLEH, a 28-year-old blogger from the West Bank town of Ramallah, says he met Shiites on a trip to Lebanon and encounters them via Facebook. But some have de-friended him because of his online comments.

"If we take Shiites from a religious point of view, then we can describe Shiites as a sect that has gone astray from the true doctrine of Islam. I consider them a bigger threat to Muslims and Islam than Jews and Israel," Mesleh said.

He cited the Shiites' processions mourning Hussein's death, saying: "The way they whip themselves, it's irrational."

The Middle East conflict "is in its core a religious conflict. The Shiites want to destroy Islam. In Lebanon, they are the ones controlling the situation, and the ones who are causing the sectarian conflict."

ISMAIL AL-HAMAMI, a 67-year-old Palestinian refugee in Gaza's Shati camp, said politics not religion is driving sectarian tensions.

"In Gaza, Iran used to support the resistance with weapons. Now they support Assad. ... In Iraq, they (Shiites) executed Saddam Hussein, who was a Sunni, and they took over the country with the help of the Americans. Now they are working against America in Iran and Syria."

"So is that related to religion? It's all about politics."

The beneficiaries of sectarianism, he said, are "those who want to sell arms to both sides ... those who want to keep Arab and Muslim countries living in the dark. The beneficiaries are the occupation (Israel) and the people who sell us religious slogans."

"God knows who is right or wrong."

___

AP correspondents Adam Schreck and Qassim Abdul-Zahra in Baghdad, Barbara Surk and Zeina Karam in Beirut, Dalia Nammari in Ramallah and Ibrahim Barzak in Gaza City, Tony G. Gabriel and Mariam Rizk in Cairo and Nasser Karimi in Tehran contributed to this report.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on June 24, 2013, 07:20:52 AM
Hatred between Sunnis, Shiites abounds in Mideast

For sure - and now we picked sides in Syria and are involved in that.

 >:(
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: The Fuzz on June 24, 2013, 10:50:21 AM
Is there a right side to pick?  I think we just like to meddle and create military weapon sales just because we can't keep our noses out of business that we don't belong in.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on June 24, 2013, 10:59:18 AM
Is there a right side to pick?  I think we just like to meddle and create military weapon sales just because we can't keep our noses out of business that we don't belong in.

I would pick the side that was against both sides.

Supply weapons to both.  That way we are sure to be on the winning side, and we will be able to put even more tax payers dollars into a fight that isn't our business.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Professor H on June 24, 2013, 11:25:39 AM
Is there a right side to pick?  I think we just like to meddle and create military weapon sales just because we can't keep our noses out of business that we don't belong in.
You mean like Iran used to be on the good side... and now they are bad
Then Iraq was bad, and now they are good...

Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on June 24, 2013, 11:48:40 AM
You mean like Iran used to be on the good side... and now they are bad
Then Iraq was bad, and now they are good...

Exactly....

But you do remember we sold arms to both sides of that little war?
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: blue2 on June 24, 2013, 11:57:23 AM
I use to think it was all about the oil.  It might be but other factors are involved too.  Just some skewed thinking i believe.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Pax on July 22, 2013, 06:06:54 PM
(http://thepeoplescube.com/peoples_resource/image/23241)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: livewire on September 13, 2013, 08:25:47 AM
I just saw this, from May of this year.  So now it's okay to silence Christians with violence, as long as you're Muslim?  WTF!!!!

Who SAYS Islam is peaceful?!?!?!?



Attorney: Ruling by Michigan judge lets Muslims silence Christians with violence


On Tuesday, federal judge Patrick J. Duggan dismissed a civil rights lawsuit brought by Christian evangelists who were violently assaulted by a hostile Muslim mob while preaching at an Arab festival last year in Dearborn, Mich., the American Freedom Law Center said.

The AFLC filed the lawsuit against Wayne County, the Wayne County Sheriff, and two Wayne County Deputy Chiefs alleging authorities refused to protect the Christians while threatening to arrest them.

A 22-minute video showing the Christians being attacked and stoned as police watched went viral last year. Instead of controlling the crowd, authorities threatened to arrest the Christians under attack for disorderly conduct.

Despite the video evidence, Judge Duggan, sitting in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Michigan, granted Wayne County’s motion for summary judgment, dismissing the lawsuit, AFLC said. The judge also denied a motion requesting the court issue an order preventing the Wayne County Sheriff and his deputies from restricting the Christian evangelists from displaying their banners and signs on the public sidewalks outside this year’s Arab Festival, set to be held in June.

“The court finds that the actual demonstration of violence here provided the requisite justification for [the Wayne County sheriffs'] intervention, even if the officials acted as they did because of the effect the speech had on the crowd,” the judge said in his ruling.

“The First Amendment was dealt a severe blow today as a result of this ruling. Indeed, this ruling effectively empowers Muslims to silence Christian speech that they deem offensive by engaging in violence. And pursuant to this ruling, the Christian speakers are now subject to arrest for engaging in disorderly conduct on account of the Muslim hecklers’ violent response to their speech," said Robert Muise, AFLC co-founder and senior counsel.

"In short," he added, "this ruling turns the First Amendment on its head.”



http://www.examiner.com/article/attorney-ruling-by-michigan-judge-lets-muslims-silence-christians-with-violence (http://www.examiner.com/article/attorney-ruling-by-michigan-judge-lets-muslims-silence-christians-with-violence)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Frenchfry on September 15, 2013, 09:41:41 AM
Muslims Stoning Christians in Michigan? Not quite…

The following is a detailed look at a conflict which took place last year at the Arab Festival in Dearborn, Michigan, in which Christians were assaulted for “preaching.” This post was originally published in June 2012. This week a federal judge threw out the case against the police who failed to stop the assault (allegedly) and asked the street preachers to leave. While many publications have spun this incident as an example of Muslim violence and savagery, as I show here, the true story is a lot more complex.   

(http://wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com/blogs/christandpopculture/files/2013/05/Dearborn-2.jpg)

Earlier this year, I wrote a excruciatingly detailed feature article describing how Wretched TV had deceptively edited footage of some Christian street preachers at the Arabfest in Dearborn, Michigan, in order to portray the Muslims in attendance as violent, bloodthirsty foreigners. I pointed out that the “Christian” preachers were led by Ruban Israel, a notorious street preacher (who was and is not supported by or connected to Wretched TV) who went to the festival specifically to agitate and incite the Muslims. If you look at unedited footage of the event, it’s clear that the “Christians” were inciting Muslims to hate, which, of course, never justifies violence, but it does explain why it happens.

I bring this up because it’s happened again. Ruben Israel returned this year to the Arab Festival and once again incited the festival goers to scream and yell and throw trash. Although Wretched TV did not report the story this year, it was picked up by The Blaze, American Vision, American Thinker, FrontPage Magazine, and other, smaller conservative websites.

Each of these reports has included and cited a YouTube video edited by The United West, a group “dedicated to defending and advancing Western Civilization against the kinetic and cultural onslaught of Shariah Islam.” Good journalism would demand that these sites check their source and consider possible biases, but, for whatever reason, these conservative news sites report on the event as if the video was an accurate representation of what occurred. But it was not. Not at all. Here’s United West’s video:

American Muslims Stone Christians in Dearborn, MI (Original edit) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnJBW49afzg#)

I wish I had the time and energy to point out every deceptive edit in this video and all the manipulative ways in which this event was reported on, but I don’t. So here’s a short list, and if you’re interested in seeing more, watch the unedited, hour long YouTube video of the incident. Watch carefully. It looks a lot different if you’re paying attention.

1. The United West video (see here) and many of the reports on this incident either claim or insinuate that the police did nothing to stop the kids from throwing trash at Ruben and his friends.

However, in the unedited video, you can see the police intervene once, twice (note the police dragging a kid off at this point—something none of the articles mention), thrice, fourse [sic] (note that this appears to be another arrest or citation? Again, never mentioned in any of the reports I listed), and I’m not going to bother looking for more examples.

Bottom line: The video lies/misrepresents the truth and each of these reports, either in ignorance (in which case they are examples of bad journalism) or knowingly repeats this lie or fails to challenge it (in the case of The Blaze).

2. Muslim adults repeatedly work to calm down and stop the kids from yelling and throwing trash. In fact, one, an apparently Muslim man stands in front of the Christians, protecting them from the angry crowd. Does this mean Islam is a religion of peace? Nope, it just means that this man (as well as many others in the video) wanted to prevent violence from happening. Does the fact that the “mob” of kids threw trash and possibly a piece of concrete mean that Islam is a religion of violence? Nope, it just means that some kids got offended and angry.

If we want to discuss whether or not Islam is inherently violent, we need to look for evidence elsewhere.

3. The video edits out the part where Ruben Israel explains to a police officer that they have a pig head on a pole because Muslims are “petrified” of pigs and so it “keeps them at bay.” No really. He says that. Can you understand now why a group of Arab kids might feel threatened by these predominately white Christians coming to their cultural festival to shout at them that they are going to hell and that their religion is a lie? Get a bunch of kids together, mock their beliefs, try to ward them away with a pig head on a stick, yell at them, and no matter what religion they are, don’t be surprised if they start throwing trash. That doesn’t in any way justify their action, but it does explain it.

4. As you watch the video it is clear that the police helped protect the Christians when they could. Could they have done a better job? Perhaps. It’s not clear from the video how many people were in attendance (I believe it was around 100k) or how many officers were available to help out. But it is clear that those officers did in fact intervene and protect the Christians several times.

5. It is also clear that this group of Christians was almost entirely focused on angering these Muslims, forcing the police to protect them after they had incited violence, and complaining over and over again about their rights and how they were being persecuted. What on earth does this have to do with lovingly sharing the Gospel to lost people? How is a preoccupation with asserting your rights honoring to God?

6. In United West’s edited video (which has over 440,000 views in three days [and now, in May 2013 it has 1.3 million views]), they show a clip of an adult Muslim telling the kids to either jump the Christians or leave. What they cut out are the shots of this same man pushing kids away from the Christians, trying to disperse the crowd, multiple times. By cutting these shots out, United West has given the impression that this adult was egging the kids on to violence; when in actuality, he seems to have been calling their bluff and trying to get them to realize how foolish they had been acting.

They also cut out Ruben Israel mocking the crowd for being a “religion of peace.” And one of the other “preachers” yelling at the kids that all they think about is violence and murder and hate. Again, absolutely none of this excuses some of the criminal violence done by a few Muslims, mostly teens and kids. But for them to edit out these shots in order to leave the impression that no one at the event tried to stop these kids and that therefore Muslims are inherently violent, is wrong.

7. Nine days before they posted their very popular article describing the “alleged” “stoning” of Christians, The Blaze published this account of the incident: SCREAMING ANTI-ISLAM PROTESTERS TAUNT MUSLIMS WITH PIG’S HEAD: ‘YOU’RE GOING TO MELT IN THE FIRES OF HELL!’ In this article, by Billy Hallowell, we read that “authorities in Wayne County attempted to keep calm and order between the two parties, as they tried to separate them—a difficult task considering the religious nature of the fighting at hand.” And that “some of the attendees chanted ‘Allah-U-Akbar,’ which translates to ‘God is the greatest.’ The Christians responded with, ‘Jesus Akbar.’”

But when they post their second article, by Mytheos Holt, over a week later, here’s the title: ‘ALLAHU AKBAR’: SHOCK VIDEO SHOWS MUSLIMS ALLEGEDLY ‘STONING’ CHRISTIAN PROTESTERS IN…MICHIGAN. We read nothing about the authorities stepping in to separate these groups. We hardly read anything about the hateful message that Israel’s group was spreading. And we don’t hear about how the Christians were responding to “Allah-U-Akbar” with “Jesus Akbar.”

What happened? How did The Blaze forget about Hallowell’s article? How did they publish an article and a video that misrepresent an incident that they reported on accurately nine days previous? And, even more perplexing, how did they miss all this when there is a huge link to Hallowell’s article at the beginning of Holt’s?

As of my writing this at 2 a.m., Holt’s article has been shared 7,600 times on Facebook. Hallowell’s? 650. Think about that. An article reportedly showing violent Muslims attacking Christians got shared over ten times as much as an article reportedly showing a group of Christians preaching hate.

To make matters worse, look at the editorial commentary at the beginning of Holt’s piece: “The conservative preoccupation with presenting Sharia law as a threat to the United States’ culture as well as its national security has long been an unwarranted source of liberal derision. They may want to rethink their attitude after this story.”

Here’s why this matters, folks. Deception and/or sloppy journalism like this is used to justify bad political policies. Don’t believe the spin. Watch for yourself.

Let me leave you with the thoughts of one Muslim who was deeply offended by these “Christians” and called them out on what he felt was their real intentions: provoking Muslims to violence so that they can use it as evidence of the inherent violence of Islam. By the way, this guy appears in The United West’s edited video, but, conspicuously, the following comments don’t make the cut: Unedited video (warning, STRONG language).

The DearbornPatch is reporting that there were numerous citations issued relating to this incident:

    “The Wayne County Sheriff’s Department, which oversaw security at the festival, did issue tickets to one adult and six youth for disturbing the peace on the first day of the festival while the protest was occurring.”

Here’s what the Sheriff’s department had to say about the lack of arrests:

    “While two individuals were going to be charged with assault and battery on Friday, we could not locate the potential complainants so those cases were then classified as disturbing the peace,” the department said in a statement. “No injuries were reported nor were there requests for medical assistance during the incident in question.”

In other words, here is even more evidence that the police did indeed act to protect Ruben and his crew and to punish those who were causing trouble, in direct contradiction to what The United West’s edited video reports.

The Christian Post is reporting that a federal judge has thrown out Ruben Israel (&co)’s case against the Dearborn police based on this incident last year:

    Judge Patrick J. Duggan decided that the group Bible Believers did not have a case against the Wayne County Sheriff’s Office regarding the actions taken at an outbreak of violence at the Arab International Festival in Dearborn.

    “Plaintiffs have cited no authority, and the Court has not located any, for the proposition that free speech rights categorically trump the authority of municipal entities to preserve order and protect public safety,” wrote Duggan.

    “The Court finds that the actual demonstration of violence here provided the requisite justification for [the Wayne County sheriffs'] intervention, even if the officials acted as they did because of the effect the speech had on the crowd.”

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/christandpopculture/2013/05/muslims-stoning-christians-in-michigan-not-quite-updated/ (http://www.patheos.com/blogs/christandpopculture/2013/05/muslims-stoning-christians-in-michigan-not-quite-updated/)

But the gun store owner seems intent of ensuring that there's plenty of hate to go around...guess it's good for business.  8*
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: livewire on September 15, 2013, 09:51:15 AM

But the gun store owner seems intent of ensuring that there's plenty of hate to go around...guess it's good for business.  8*

More personal attacks?  Really, Frenchie?  I am really getting tired of your bullshyt.

YOU are the one that is promoting hate.  Everyone sees that here.

YOU are the one that mentioned ME in your post, accusing me of promoting hate because it's good for business.  My business is doing just fine, and it sure as hell has nothing to do with this forum, or the things I post here. 
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Ash Williams on September 15, 2013, 09:56:06 AM
More personal attacks?  Really, Frenchie?  I am really getting tired of your bullshyt.

YOU are the one that is promoting hate.  Everyone sees that here.

YOU are the one that mentioned ME in your post, accusing me of promoting hate because it's good for business.  My business is doing just fine, and it sure as hell has nothing to do with this forum, or the things I post here.

mr wire

bull puckey

i seed ya ritin hate an persnal attaks all time tryin ta stir up crap when no un even hear ta yammer at

all librals is all stupid an all rong an never rite

ya says it all time

but do show ya want no un ta say nothin at mt but far right blather cuz yer afeared ta here nothin else

bullees is thet way
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: livewire on September 15, 2013, 10:00:42 AM
mr wire

bull puckey

i seed ya ritin hate an persnal attaks all time tryin ta stir up crap when no un even hear ta yammer at

all librals is all stupid an all rong an never rite

ya says it all time

but do show ya want no un ta say nothin at mt but far right blather cuz yer afeared ta here nothin else

bullees is thet way

Write coherently or don't bother writing at all.  I have no clue what you said.

Your garbage posts are a violation of the TOS.

If I see one more like this one I'm reporting you to the mods.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Ash Williams on September 15, 2013, 10:02:18 AM
Write coherently or don't bother writing at all.  I have no clue what you said.

Your garbage posts are a violation of the TOS.

If I see one more like this one I'm reporting you to the mods.

so is bulleeun an persnal attaks

anit stopped ya yet
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: livewire on September 15, 2013, 10:16:11 AM
so is bulleeun an persnal attaks

anit stopped ya yet

If you think I violated the TOS, report me, and shut up.

ALL of your posts are barely legible, and when they ARE, all you ever do is attack posters here.  You never contribute ANYTHING to the discussion.  All you do is bytch and complain about the conservative posters here, and NOT what they say.

Write something that is LEGIBLE, without attacking other posters for a change, fry.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Frenchfry on September 15, 2013, 11:13:03 AM
If you think I violated the TOS, report me, and shut up.

ALL of your posts are barely legible, and when they ARE, all you ever do is attack posters here.  You never contribute ANYTHING to the discussion.  All you do is bytch and complain about the conservative posters here, and NOT what they say.

Write something that is LEGIBLE, without attacking other posters for a change, fry.
LOL...guess I'm a magician now since it appears the poster that has been accused of being my alter ego has been posting at the very same time that I've been posting.

You righties have become the laughing stock of the forum.

When will you EVER be correct?
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Frenchfry on September 15, 2013, 01:12:49 PM
Bachmann & Fellow GOP Loons Calls 'Muslim Brotherhood' Terrorists in 'Egyptian Presser'

Bachmann & Fellow GOP Loons Calls 'Muslim Brotherhood' Terrorists in 'Egyptian Presser' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6_9eLGuVBU#)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Frenchfry on September 25, 2013, 10:36:07 AM
Cuss warning:

Fox News Response To Kenya Mall Attack - Blame All Muslims

The response to the Kenya mall attack by Bill O'Reilly and other Fox News hosts and guests has essentially been to blame ALL Muslims.

Fox News Response To Kenya Mall Attack - Blame All Muslims (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU1BQIIlt74#)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Professor H on September 25, 2013, 10:43:08 PM
(http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/bg092413dAPR20130924014512.jpg)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: excelsior on September 25, 2013, 10:52:39 PM
This attack a lot worse than Kenya, but is not getting much coverage.

Pakistan church bomb: Christians mourn 85 killed in Peshawar suicide attack

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/23/pakistan-church-bombings-christian-minority (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/23/pakistan-church-bombings-christian-minority)

With its Mughalesque features, gleaming white dome and minaret-like towers, the All Saints' church in Peshawar has been a symbol of interfaith harmony ever since it was built in 1883.

As in a mosque, worshippers remove their shoes before entering the historic building, where biblical quotations are emblazoned on the walls in English, Hebrew and Persian scripts.

Some of the congregation were in bare feet as they filed out of the Anglican church on Sunday morning straight into the blast zone of one of two suicide bombers from a Taliban faction that has vowed to kill non-Muslims until the US cancels its lethal drone strikes in the country.

A day later and a blood-soaked jumble of shoes still lies in a pile on the right-hand side of the tall wooden doors where female worshippers usually congregate.

According to a tally based on information from local officials, 85 people were killed and more than 100 injured, although one doctor who arrived at the scene moments after the blast believes that even more died but their bodies were recovered by relatives before they could be accounted for.

Whatever the number, it was Pakistan's worst attack on Christians, sparking impassioned, country-wide protests.

Christians are a tiny and politically weak minority in Muslim-majority Pakistan who suffer from prejudice and sporadic bouts of mob violence. But Sunday was the first time that bombs had been used to such deadly effect on worshippers.

Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on September 26, 2013, 07:23:07 AM
This attack a lot worse than Kenya, but is not getting much coverage.

Pakistan church bomb: Christians mourn 85 killed in Peshawar suicide attack


Good Muslims doing what the Koran tells them to do.

But but but but......   Islam is a religion of peace - right?
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: livewire on June 14, 2014, 07:27:18 AM
100 Lashes – What Flogging Will Do to Meriam Ibrahim’s Body

Two weeks ago elation came with word from a Sudanese official stating that the Christian Doctor, Meriam Ibrahim, would be released from captivity from a Sudanese prison with in days.  Soon after making the announcement, that same official rescinded it.  In his revised statement, he indicated that Dr. Ibrahim could be set free as soon as her sentence was overturned by appeal with the Sudanese court.  The meaning being that nothing had changed.

Meriam has been condemned to 100 lashes for committing adultery with her husband, Daniel Wani, a U.S. citizen, and death by hanging for apostasy.  Refusing to renounce her Christian faith, she remains imprisoned.  She is shackled to the floor of a Khartoum Sudan prison cell while caring for her and her husband’s children, a 22 month old son and her newborn daughter, Maya.  Meriam gave birth to her daughter in shackles in the prison’s hospital in May.


http://misguidedchildren.com/foreign-affairs/2014/06/100-lashes-what-flogging-will-do-to-meriam-ibrahims-body/23409 (http://misguidedchildren.com/foreign-affairs/2014/06/100-lashes-what-flogging-will-do-to-meriam-ibrahims-body/23409)



Ah, the religion of PEACE. 

So, why aren't the DEMOCRATS and other liberals on this site SCREAMING about this war on women?

If you liberals don't condemn this behavior, you are just as guilty as the Muslims who support it.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: The Fuzz on June 14, 2014, 09:09:12 AM
They are their own worst enemies and if we would never have meddled in their affairs to begin with chances are 911 would never have happened and they would kill each other off in their own little Holy War against each other.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on June 14, 2014, 07:35:39 PM
They are their own worst enemies and if we would never have meddled in their affairs to begin with chances are 911 would never have happened and they would kill each other off in their own little Holy War against each other.

I would gladly donate ammunition to both sides in that little war.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: SidecarFlip on June 14, 2014, 10:39:45 PM
I would gladly donate ammunition to both sides in that little war.

You ain't got enough.....
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on June 15, 2014, 07:59:14 AM
You ain't got enough.....

Nope, but every round counts.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: SidecarFlip on June 15, 2014, 03:12:53 PM
Nope, but every round counts.

True but it depends entirely on what they are shot out of.  If the rifle has the accuracy of an AK, they need gobs to so anything but make noise.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on June 15, 2014, 06:03:21 PM
You aren't suggesting teaching them how to shoot - and giving them accurate weapons are you?

 :o
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: blue2 on June 15, 2014, 08:18:32 PM
We meddled in their affairs because we had some oil barrens in the white house that though we needed their oil.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on June 18, 2014, 12:46:59 PM
So what changed?

We don't need their oil anymore?
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: SidecarFlip on June 18, 2014, 10:18:00 PM
We meddled in their affairs because we had some oil barrens in the white house that though we needed their oil.

Isn't oil the underlying premise in all middle east conflicts we meddle in?  Amazing stuff IMO.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on August 19, 2014, 09:46:48 PM
I see the peaceful Muslims beheaded a Journalist today.

Add that to the little Children and women they beheaded - all infidels of course - what a peace loving bunch.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: livewire on August 20, 2014, 08:18:38 AM
What the hell makes people want to join that sickening religion, anyways? 

Peaceful, my azz.

I still say there's a very special place in hell for these nut cases.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: lilly on August 20, 2014, 09:09:32 AM
What the hell makes people want to join that sickening religion, anyways? 

Peaceful, my azz.

I still say there's a very special place in hell for these nut cases.
so you believe that nothing bad has ever been done in the name of Christianity?
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: sammy on August 20, 2014, 09:17:08 AM
so you believe that nothing bad has ever been done in the name of Christianity?
Did he say that, Duck?
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: livewire on August 20, 2014, 09:19:45 AM
so you believe that nothing bad has ever been done in the name of Christianity?

I never said that.  Don't get like Duck, and start putting words into my mouth.


In the distant past, yes, things were done "in the name of Christianity" that were NOT Christ-like.

But today, in the current world we live in, no.

Have you ever seen a "Christian" behead another person on CNN?  No.

Have you seen any offensive military attacks in the name of Christianity in your lifetime?  No.

Do Christians chant "kill all non-Christians"?  No.

These Muslims are evil.  They are NOT a peaceful people.  Everyone must understand that.


Next?


Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: lilly on August 20, 2014, 09:28:29 AM
My point is, just because some people of a particular religion do terrible things doesn't make all the people of that particular religion bad people.Ty
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: lilly on August 20, 2014, 09:53:52 AM
Did he say that, Duck?
I was asking a question dickhead.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: sammy on August 20, 2014, 09:56:44 AM
Touchy, aren't we?
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: lilly on August 20, 2014, 09:57:00 AM
Oh and to answer your question as to any recent Christian atrocities, here's a listing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism)

Central African Republic
Further information: Central African Republic conflict under the Djotodia administration

After the predominantly Muslim Seleka militia took control of the Central African Republic under President Michel Djotodia in 2013, a period of lawlessness and sectarian violence continued. Following warnings of "genocide" by the UN and a controversial intervention force by MISCA, Djotodia resigned. Despite neutral Catherine Samba-Panza being made president, the Anti-balaka Christian militants continued sectarian violence, including reported targeted killings, against Muslim civilians.[2
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: lilly on August 20, 2014, 09:57:38 AM
Touchy, aren't we?
You got less than what you deserved.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on August 20, 2014, 11:45:29 AM
Why do some people defend groups that behead journalists?

I don't get it.

I personally don't want to defend barbaric acts like that.....  but if you want to alley yourself with that - go right on ahead and do it.

Personally I think Muslims track records of being the most violent religion going is pretty clear cut.  They are NOT tolerant of other religions - period.  If you are a Christian in a Muslim dominated area - good luck with that.  First they "tax" you, then they imprison you, then they kill you.  That is the tolerance you can expect from your peace loving Muslim.

Go ahead and defend it if you want to.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: SidecarFlip on August 20, 2014, 01:01:19 PM
'Religion of Peace'....  I have a piece wating for them............... ;D
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: lilly on August 20, 2014, 01:08:44 PM
Why do some people defend groups that behead journalists?

I don't get it.

I personally don't want to defend barbaric acts like that.....  but if you want to alley yourself with that - go right on ahead and do it.

Personally I think Muslims track records of being the most violent religion going is pretty clear cut.  They are NOT tolerant of other religions - period.  If you are a Christian in a Muslim dominated area - good luck with that.  First they "tax" you, then they imprison you, then they kill you.  That is the tolerance you can expect from your peace loving Muslim.

Go ahead and defend it if you want to.
You are as arrogant as you are ignorant. I am not defending the people that committed these heinous acts. I am defending those who are being maligned by idiots like yourself who like to label all people into a group for the actions of a few.

I presented evidence where "Christians" killed Muslims last year because of their religion and YOU choose to ignore it.

Why is that?
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: excelsior on August 20, 2014, 02:04:37 PM
I have a number of friends that are Muslims.  None of them support the Islamic state, ISIS or their actions.

Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on August 20, 2014, 02:40:13 PM
You are as arrogant as you are ignorant. I am not defending the people that committed these heinous acts. I am defending those who are being maligned by idiots like yourself who like to label all people into a group for the actions of a few.

I presented evidence where "Christians" killed Muslims last year because of their religion and YOU choose to ignore it.

Why is that?

You try to deflect the subject away to a different group Lilly.

I never said anything about you by the way.  Not a thing. 

You are the one that keeps leaping up to attack Christians.

Why is that?
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: lilly on August 20, 2014, 02:41:29 PM
I have a number of friends that are Muslims.  None of them support the Islamic state, ISIS or their actions.
I'm sure that they are just playing nice and are going to murder you in your sleep.

/end sarcasm

Well sarcasm for me. For Livewire, Monroe Native, and SidecarFlip, not so much.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: lilly on August 20, 2014, 02:43:26 PM
You try to deflect the subject away to a different group Lilly.

I never said anything about you by the way.  Not a thing. 

You are the one that keeps leaping up to attack Christians.

Why is that?
You need to re-read what I have posted, but I fear if you don't comprehend what I posted by now, you never will.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on August 20, 2014, 03:20:31 PM
I have a number of friends who are Chaldean and Persians who fled Iraq and Iran due to Religious persecution of "Peaceful Muslims"  of Christians by various Muslim groups.

To them this isn't just a theoretical exercise.  They don't trust Muslims for some reason.  They look at the mosque down the street with great distrust.

It is well documented that when Muslims become the majority of the population they institute Sharia Law.

When they do this first they start "taxing" those who are not of the Muslim faith.  This tactic starts low, and gradually increases as they become more and more of the majority.

Eventually they move on from the phase of "taxation" to the convert or be imprisoned or die. 

With ISIS this all has happened very fast - like overnight.

Now in the US all the MUSLIMS you know would be very peaceful, friendly, open.  They can't exactly go out and tax you, can they?  Go on up to Dearborn during one of their festivals, and try to outwardly show that you are a Christian and see what they do to you.  I bet you are met with some hostility.

Now - go to Iran and do the same thing.  See what you get.  See how friendly, open, and accepting they are now.

There are degrees of friendliness and openess to this religion.

Of course I'm just a whakco extremest.  One of those Crazy Christians that are out to hurt People.  Ask Lilly about that.

 8*
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: SidecarFlip on August 20, 2014, 05:42:47 PM
I like to collect persian rugs (Chinese too)...

Nothing better than getting out of bed in the morning and stepping on a towel head first thing. ;D
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Tiny on August 20, 2014, 11:19:38 PM
Got this in an email today.

1,400 YEARS OF IN-BREEDING.
Worth the read
During the pilot transition program with the KV-107 and C-130 with Lockheed, it was found that most Saudi pilot trainees had very limited night vision, even on the brightest of moon lit nights. Their training retention rate was minimal including maintenance personnel.

Some had dim memories and had to be constantly reminded of things that were told to them the day before. Needless to say, an American, British or any other western instructor gets burned out pretty quick. It actually took Muslim C-130 pilots years before they could fly in the dark safely and then would be reluctant to leave the lights of a city. Ask any Marine, Air Force or Army guy who’s been trying to train Iraqis, and especially Afghans. They will say, "Yep, dumber than homemade dodo".

Islam is not only a religion, it's a way of life all the way around. Yet another set of revealing facts about Muslim beliefs and traditions and ways of life.

1400 years of inbreeding.  I found this to be interesting. Didn't know whether to believe it or not. To research I went to Wikipedia, "Cousin Marriage", and far down in the article "Genetics", it seems there is a lot of truth here.

A huge Muslim problem: Inbreeding!

Nikolai Sennels is a Danish psychologist who has done extensive research into a little-known problem in the Muslim world: the disastrous results of Muslim inbreeding brought about by the marriage of first-cousins.

This practice, which has been prohibited in the Judeo-Christian tradition since the days of Moses, was sanctioned by Muhammad and has been going on now for 50 generations (1,400 years) in the Muslim world.

This practice of inbreeding will never go away in the Muslim world, since Muhammad is the ultimate example and authority on all matters, including marriage. The massive inbreeding in Muslim culture may well have done virtually irreversible damage to the Muslim gene pool, including extensive damage to its intelligence, sanity, and health.

According to Sennels, close to half of all Muslims in the world are inbred. In Pakistan, the numbers approach 70%. Even in England, more than half of Pakistani immigrants are married to their first cousins, and in Denmark the number of inbred Pakistani immigrants is around 40%.The numbers are equally devastating in other important Muslim countries: 67% in Saudi Arabia, 64% in Jordan, and Kuwait, 63% in Sudan, 60% in Iraq, and 54% in the United Arab Emirates and Qatar.

According to the BBC, this Pakistani, Muslim-inspired inbreeding is thought to explain the probability that a British Pakistani family is more than 13 times as likely to have children with recessive genetic disorders. While Pakistanis are responsible for three percent of the births in the UK, they account for 33% of children with genetic birth defects.

The risks of what are called autosomal recessive disorders such as cystic fibrosis and spinal muscular atrophy is 18 times higher and the risk of death due to malformations is 10 times higher.

Other negative consequences of inbreeding include a 100 percent increase in the risk of still births and a 50% increase in the possibility that a child will die during labor.

Lowered intellectual capacity is another devastating consequence of Muslim marriage patterns. According to Sennels, research shows that children of consanguineous marriages lose 10-16 points off their IQ and that social abilities develop much slower in inbred babies. The risk of having an IQ lower than 70, the official demarcation for being classified as "retarded," increases by an astonishing 400 percent among children of cousin marriages. (Similar effects were seen in the Pharaonic dynasties in ancient Egypt and in the British royal family, where inbreeding was the norm for a significant period of time.)

In Denmark, non-Western immigrants are more than 300 percent more likely to fail the intelligence test required for entrance into the Danish army.

Sennels says that "the ability to enjoy and produce knowledge and abstract thinking is simply lower in the Islamic world." He points out that the Arab world translates just 330 books every year, about 20% of what Greece alone does. In the last 1,200 years of Islam, just 100,000 books have been translated into Arabic, about what Spain does in a single year. Seven out of 10 Turks have never even read a book.

Sennels points out the difficulties this creates for Muslims seeking to succeed in the West. "A lower IQ, together with a religion that denounces critical thinking, surely makes it harder for many Muslims to have success in our high-tech knowledge societies."

Only nine Muslims have ever won the Nobel Prize, and five of those were for the "Peace Prize." According to Nature magazine, Muslim countries produce just 10 percent of the world average when it comes to scientific research measured by articles per million inhabitants.

In Denmark, Sennels' native country, Muslim children are grossly over represented among children with special needs. One-third of the budget for Danish schools is consumed by special education, and anywhere from 51% to 70% of retarded children with physical handicaps in Copenhagen have an immigrant background. Learning ability is severely affected as well. Studies indicated that 64% of school children with Arabic parents are still illiterate after 10 years in the Danish school system. The immigrant drop-out rate in Danish high schools is twice that of the native-born.

Mental illness is also a product. The closer the blood relative, the higher the risk of schizophrenic illness. The increased risk of insanity may explain why more than 40% of patients in Denmark’s biggest ward for clinically insane criminals have an immigrant background.

The U.S. is not immune. According to Sennels, "One study based on 300,000 Americans shows that the majority of Muslims in the USA have a lower income, are less educated, and have worse jobs than the population as a whole."

Sennels concludes: There is no doubt that the wide spread tradition of first cousin marriages among Muslims has harmed the gene pool among Muslims. Because Muslims' religious beliefs prohibit marrying non-Muslims and thus prevents them from adding fresh genetic material to their population, the genetic damage done to their gene pool since their prophet allowed first cousin marriages 1,400 years ago are most likely massive. This has produced overwhelming direct and indirect human and societal consequences.

Bottom line: Islam is not simply a benign and morally equivalent alternative to the Judeo-Christian tradition. As Sennels points out, the first and biggest victims of Islam are Muslims. Simple Judeo-Christian compassion for Muslims and a common-sense desire to protect Western civilization from the ravages of Islam dictate a vigorous opposition to the spread of this dark and dangerous religion. These stark realities must be taken into account when we establish public polices dealing with immigration from Muslim countries and the building of mosques in the U.S.

Let's hope the civilized West and the North Americans wake up before a blind naiveté about the reality of Islam destroys what remains of our Judeo-Christian culture and our domestic tranquility.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Frenchfry on August 24, 2014, 02:21:24 AM

1,400 YEARS OF IN-BREEDING.

Many similarities to the inhabitants of Moron County.

(http://images.craigslist.org/00505_5xdS2hkfUFo_600x450.jpg)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: livewire on August 24, 2014, 09:40:36 AM

I'm sure that they are just playing nice and are going to murder you in your sleep.

/end sarcasm

Well sarcasm for me. For Livewire, Monroe Native, and SidecarFlip, not so much.


Facts are facts, whether you choose to ignore them or not.

Muslim clerics teach that the Koran says that in order to get into heaven, Muslims are told to kill the infidels.  That is not "radical" Islam, that is "normal" Islam.  Infidels are defined as non-believers.  In other words, everyone who does NOT follow Islam. 

I have a VERY serious problem with that.

Christian teachings (direct from the mouth of Jesus) say to love everyone.  Jesus actually preferred to preach to sinners, and he liked being with non-believers.  He loved them, and wanted to save them.

BIG difference.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: The Fuzz on August 24, 2014, 10:49:38 AM

Muslim clerics teach that the Koran says that in order to get into heaven, Muslims are told to kill the infidels.  That is not "radical" Islam, that is "normal" Islam.  Infidels are defined as non-believers.  In other words, everyone who does NOT follow Islam. 



I'm not challenging, because I don't know, but is that true that 100% of the clerics teach that?  I once heard certain radical factions did, but not as a whole.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on August 24, 2014, 10:58:54 AM
I'm not challenging, because I don't know, but is that true that 100% of the clerics teach that?  I once heard certain radical factions did, but not as a whole.

I would say nothing is true of 100% of anything.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: The Fuzz on August 24, 2014, 11:03:39 AM
Brother, ok, let's just say 80% then.

I thought since he stated that it came out of the Koran that it was comprehensive of the entire religion.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on August 24, 2014, 11:11:58 AM
Brother, ok, let's just say 80% then.

I thought since he stated that it came out of the Koran that it was comprehensive of the entire religion.

I'm assuming that the Koran is similar to the Bible in that you can support or refute practically any position or argument that you would care to with passages from it.

I have no idea what percentage advocate violence over peace, but it is clear those two factions do exist, and as the percentage of "believers" increases within the population, the Muslim faith tends to move towards eradicating those of other faiths from their population.

Where is the tipping point?  I think you are seeing that right now in Northern Iraq, and people are paying with their lives for the Christian Faith. 

I never thought in my lifetime I would perhaps get the opportunity to do so myself, but now I am starting to wonder.

Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: The Fuzz on August 24, 2014, 11:18:21 AM
Good point.....interpretation is the key.

My guess is that it is a small percentage that interpret that killing an infidel gets you to heaven.....no clue.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on August 24, 2014, 11:21:51 AM
Good point.....interpretation is the key.

My guess is that it is a small percentage that interpret that killing an infidel gets you to heaven.....no clue.

I don't doubt that it is a small percentage.

A few extremists in leadership positions can cause alot of damage.

Lots of examples of that throughout history.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: livewire on August 24, 2014, 11:29:51 AM
I think the percentage of Muslims that believe that interpretation of the Koran is larger than many would think. 

I also think that there are many clerics that walk a fine line between normal and radical, in their teachings. 
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: SidecarFlip on August 24, 2014, 11:49:33 AM
From what I see, a percentage of Muslims want peace....  A peace of your white arse.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: The Fuzz on August 24, 2014, 01:15:02 PM
The percentage thing got my curiosity, so I looked at a few sites that addressed the topic.....I have no clue about the reliability of the sites but this one seemed consistent in breaking it down.

http://thinkprogress.org/security/2013/09/11/2602361/poll-majority-muslims-worldwide-reject-extremism/ (http://thinkprogress.org/security/2013/09/11/2602361/poll-majority-muslims-worldwide-reject-extremism/)

POLL: Majority Of Muslims Worldwide Reject Extremism

A new survey out on Tuesday shows that a majority of Muslims worldwide not only have serious concerns about religious extremism, but also reject Al Qaeda, the Taliban, and violence in the name of Islam.

The poll, conducted by the Pew Research Center, surveyed samples of the population from eleven majority Muslim countries — Egypt, Indonesia, Jordan, Lebanon, Malaysia, Nigeria, Pakistan, the Palestinian territories, Senegal, Tunisia, and Turkey — asking about their views on Islamic extremism and the violence carried out in its name. The results show that a median of 67 percent of those reached out to are either somewhat or very concerned about extremism in their countries. In some states, such as Lebanon and Tunisia, the number climbs above 70 percent. Turkey actually stands out as the only country polled where more than half of the those surveyed say they are not concerned about extremism.

That widespread skepticism towards extremism is mirrored in rejection of those who carry out attacks and other violence to promote their views of Islam:

    Al Qaeda, which is responsible for some of the most well-known and devastating terrorist attacks in the last 15 years, receives the most negative ratings among the extremist groups included in the survey. A median of 57% across the 11 Muslim publics surveyed hold an unfavorable view of the group. This includes strong majorities of Muslims in Lebanon (96%), Jordan (81%), Turkey (73%), and Egypt (69%). More than half of Muslims in Nigeria, Senegal, Tunisia, Indonesia, and the Palestinian territories also view al Qaeda negatively. In Pakistan and Malaysia, Muslim views of al Qaeda are on balance unfavorable, but many offer no opinion.

The Taliban in Afghanistan, Boko Haram in Nigeria, and Hezbollah in Lebanon were all also given unfavorable ratings from the median of respondents.

Support for suicide bombing has likewise plummeted throughout the Islamic world compared to past years. In Lebanon alone, the number of respondents who believed that suicide bombing is sometimes or often justified dropped from 74 percent in 2002 to 33 percent today. Pakistanis showed the least support for the tactic, with 89 percent of those surveyed opposed to its use in any circumstances.

Interestingly enough, the survey also manages to disconnect the idea of adherence to Islam to support for suicide bombing. “For the most part, support for suicide bombing is not correlated with devoutness,” Pew wrote in its results. “Generally, Muslims who say they pray five times per day are no more likely to support targeting civilians to protect Islam than those who pray less often.”
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on August 24, 2014, 01:35:01 PM
So where are the Muslims rising up against this stupidity then?
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: The Fuzz on August 24, 2014, 01:51:29 PM
Does that happen within other religions with radical factions?
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: blue2 on August 24, 2014, 03:17:53 PM
That poll is probably taken in Saudi Arabia or Iran.
I have yet to see a Muslim come on TV and criticize the extremist.
They swim all around it and our media lets them get away with it, even the Fox News folks
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: The Fuzz on August 24, 2014, 03:21:28 PM
Quote
The poll, conducted by the Pew Research Center, surveyed samples of the population from eleven majority Muslim countries — Egypt, Indonesia, Jordan, Lebanon, Malaysia, Nigeria, Pakistan, the Palestinian territories, Senegal, Tunisia, and Turkey
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: livewire on August 24, 2014, 06:00:10 PM
The percentage thing got my curiosity, so I looked at a few sites that addressed the topic.....I have no clue about the reliability of the sites but this one seemed consistent in breaking it down.

[url]http://thinkprogress.org/security/2013/09/11/2602361/poll-majority-muslims-worldwide-reject-extremism/[/url] ([url]http://thinkprogress.org/security/2013/09/11/2602361/poll-majority-muslims-worldwide-reject-extremism/[/url])

POLL: Majority Of Muslims Worldwide Reject Extremism

A new survey out on Tuesday shows that a majority of Muslims worldwide not only have serious concerns about religious extremism, but also reject Al Qaeda, the Taliban, and violence in the name of Islam.

The poll, conducted by the Pew Research Center, surveyed samples of the population from eleven majority Muslim countries — Egypt, Indonesia, Jordan, Lebanon, Malaysia, Nigeria, Pakistan, the Palestinian territories, Senegal, Tunisia, and Turkey — asking about their views on Islamic extremism and the violence carried out in its name. The results show that a median of 67 percent of those reached out to are either somewhat or very concerned about extremism in their countries. In some states, such as Lebanon and Tunisia, the number climbs above 70 percent. Turkey actually stands out as the only country polled where more than half of the those surveyed say they are not concerned about extremism.

That widespread skepticism towards extremism is mirrored in rejection of those who carry out attacks and other violence to promote their views of Islam:

    Al Qaeda, which is responsible for some of the most well-known and devastating terrorist attacks in the last 15 years, receives the most negative ratings among the extremist groups included in the survey. A median of 57% across the 11 Muslim publics surveyed hold an unfavorable view of the group. This includes strong majorities of Muslims in Lebanon (96%), Jordan (81%), Turkey (73%), and Egypt (69%). More than half of Muslims in Nigeria, Senegal, Tunisia, Indonesia, and the Palestinian territories also view al Qaeda negatively. In Pakistan and Malaysia, Muslim views of al Qaeda are on balance unfavorable, but many offer no opinion.

The Taliban in Afghanistan, Boko Haram in Nigeria, and Hezbollah in Lebanon were all also given unfavorable ratings from the median of respondents.

Support for suicide bombing has likewise plummeted throughout the Islamic world compared to past years. In Lebanon alone, the number of respondents who believed that suicide bombing is sometimes or often justified dropped from 74 percent in 2002 to 33 percent today. Pakistanis showed the least support for the tactic, with 89 percent of those surveyed opposed to its use in any circumstances.

Interestingly enough, the survey also manages to disconnect the idea of adherence to Islam to support for suicide bombing. “For the most part, support for suicide bombing is not correlated with devoutness,” Pew wrote in its results. “Generally, Muslims who say they pray five times per day are no more likely to support targeting civilians to protect Islam than those who pray less often.”


Ok, to me, this is very, very disturbing.

Considering polls (especially from Think Progress) can be skewed to show Islam is peaceful, the results of this poll are surprisingly in support of my thinking.

It shows that about two thirds of those polled "are either somewhat or very concerned about extremism in their countries."

Seriously? ONLY TWO THIRDS are concerned?  That means that one third are NOT CONCERNED about Muslim extremism!!!


"Support for suicide bombing has dropped"?  Well, doesn't that make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside!  Lol

In Lebanon, in 2002, support for suicide bombing was 74%!  Holy cow!!!
Yes, the poll says it has now dropped to 33%, but big deal!  That still means that A THIRD of those polled in Lebanon SUPPORT suicide bombing as an acceptable tactic! 

To me, that is f*cking insane.

This poll supports my premise that a large percentage (one third) of Muslims feel that they support extreme measures to encourage the spread of Islam.

THAT is something to be concerned about.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: The Fuzz on August 24, 2014, 06:14:53 PM
I was a little surprised at the results myself, I wouldn't have thought it reflected the complacence that it did.

Wasn't sure about the source site, never heard of them, but they didn't do the poll.....it was an outfit called Pew Research Center.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: blue2 on August 24, 2014, 06:18:28 PM
I'm sure their clerics keep telling them to kill the infidels.  Only maybe the younger ones now with access to the internet can see for themselves what the world is really like
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: livewire on August 25, 2014, 09:10:30 AM
Imagine if I were to go to ANY Christian church yesterday (Sunday), and when the crowd was coming out of the church, getting ready to go home, just think what their response would be if I were to poll those people, asking them questions like these:

"Do you think it's acceptable for Christians to chop off the head of people who will not convert to Christianity?"

"Do you think it's acceptable for Christians to recruit younger people to strap bombs on themselves, and to kill innocent civilians with it, just because they will not convert to Christianity?"

"Is it acceptable that if a non-Christian will not convert to Christianity, that Christians of ALL ages are to be taught to kill that person?"

Now, how many people do you think would answer in the affirmative to questions like these?

My guess would be ZERO.  Not one.

Yet, according to that poll, one third of Muslims think that's just fine.


Am I the only one that sees this as a huge problem?

RADICAL Muslims are not the problem.  Islam ITSELF is radical!
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Frenchfry on August 25, 2014, 11:50:20 PM
Imagine if I were to go to ANY Christian church yesterday (Sunday), and when the crowd was coming out of the church, getting ready to go home, just think what their response would be if I were to poll those people, asking them questions like these:

"Do you think it's acceptable for Christians to chop off the head of people who will not convert to Christianity?"

"Do you think it's acceptable for Christians to recruit younger people to strap bombs on themselves, and to kill innocent civilians with it, just because they will not convert to Christianity?"

"Is it acceptable that if a non-Christian will not convert to Christianity, that Christians of ALL ages are to be taught to kill that person?"

Now, how many people do you think would answer in the affirmative to questions like these?

My guess would be ZERO.  Not one.

Yet, according to that poll, one third of Muslims think that's just fine.


Am I the only one that sees this as a huge problem?

RADICAL Muslims are not the problem.  Islam ITSELF is radical!
I'm not sure if you're using your religion as an excuse to foment hate...but I doubt your radical racist viewpoint is among the majority...and that's pretty much what the Pew poll results said about Muslims.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: The Fuzz on August 25, 2014, 11:56:54 PM
I'm sure their clerics keep telling them to kill the infidels.  Only maybe the younger ones now with access to the internet can see for themselves what the world is really like

Please prove my doubts about that wrong and show me that is in fact the case.  You may be right, but that is not what I've read.....perhaps the confusion is in clerics, are you saying that as a whole, majority, or the percentage of clerics calling for jihad?
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: livewire on August 26, 2014, 02:00:22 PM
Islam in a Nutshell

Islam, not the Chinese nor the Russians, represent the greatest threat to the world and
might be the fulfillment of the book of Revelation in the Holy Bible. This is very disturbing
for a Christian to read, but read it and be educated.



Adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond's book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam:
The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat



Islam is not a religion, nor is it a cult. In its fullest form, it is a complete, total, 100% system of life.



Islam has religious, legal, political, economic, social, and military components.
The religious component is a beard for all of the other components.



Islamization begins when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their religious privileges.



When politically correct, tolerant, and culturally diverse societies agree to Muslim demands for
their religious privileges, some of the other components tend to creep in as well.


Here's how it works:


As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given country, they will be for the most
part be regarded as a peace-loving minority, and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the case in:


United States -- Muslim 0.6%

Australia -- Muslim 1.5%

Canada -- Muslim 1.9%

China -- Muslim 1.8%

Italy -- Muslim 1.5%

Norway -- Muslim 1.8%


At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups,
often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs. This is happening in:


Denmark -- Muslim 2%

Germany -- Muslim 3.7%

United Kingdom -- Muslim 2.7%

Spain -- Muslim 4%

Thailand -- Muslim 4.6%


From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population.
For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing
food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on
their shelves -- along with threats for failure to comply. This is occurring in:


France -- Muslim 8%

Philippines -- Muslim 5%

Sweden -- Muslim 5%

Switzerland -- Muslim 4.3%

The Netherlands -- Muslim 5.5%

Trinidad & Tobago -- Muslim 5.8%


At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the entire world.


When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint
about their conditions. In Paris, we are already seeing car-burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam
and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam, with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and
films about Islam. Such tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim sections in:


Guyana -- Muslim 10%

India -- Muslim 13.4%

Israel -- Muslim 16%

Kenya -- Muslim 10%

Russia -- Muslim 15%


After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and
the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, such as in:


Ethiopia -- Muslim 32.8%


At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare, such as in:


Bosnia -- Muslim 40%

Chad -- Muslim 53.1%

Lebanon -- Muslim 59.7%


From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels, such as in:


Albania -- Muslim 70%

Malaysia -- Muslim 60.4%

Qatar -- Muslim 77.5%

Sudan -- Muslim 70%


After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some State-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, such as has been experienced and is on-going in:


Bangladesh -- Muslim 83%

Egypt -- Muslim 90%

Gaza -- Muslim 98.7%

Indonesia -- Muslim 86.1%

Iran -- Muslim 98%

Iraq -- Muslim 97%

Jordan -- Muslim 92%

Morocco -- Muslim 98.7%

Pakistan -- Muslim 97%

Palestine -- Muslim 99%

Syria -- Muslim 90%

Tajikistan -- Muslim 90%

Turkey -- Muslim 99.8%

United Arab Emirates -- Muslim 96%


100% will usher in the peace of 'Dar-es-Salaam' -- the Islamic House of Peace. Here there's supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the Madrassas are the only schools, and the Koran is the only word, such as in:


Afghanistan -- Muslim 100%

Saudi Arabia -- Muslim 100%

Somalia -- Muslim 100%

Yemen -- Muslim 100%


Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the most radical Muslims intimidate and
spew hatred, and satisfy their blood lust by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of reasons.


'Before I was nine, I had learned the basic canon of Arab life. It was me against my brother; me and my
brother against our father; my family against my cousins and the clan; the clan against the tribe; the tribe
against the world, and all of us against the infidel. -- Leon Uris, 'The Haj'


It is important to understand that in some countries, with well under 100% Muslim populations, such as France, the minority Muslim populations live in ghettos, within which they are 100% Muslim, and within which they live by Sharia Law. The national police do not even enter these ghettos. There are no national courts, nor schools, nor non-Muslim religious facilities. In such situations, Muslims do not integrate into the community at large.
The children attend madrasses. They learn only the Koran. To even associate with an infidel is a crime punishable
with death. Therefore, in some areas of certain nations, Muslim Imams and extremists exercise more power than the national average would indicate.


Today 's 1.5 billion Muslims make up 22% of the world's population. But their birth rates are higher than the
birth rates of Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, and all other believers. Muslims will exceed 50% of the
world's population by the end of this century.


Well, boys and girls, today we are letting the fox guard the henhouse.

The wolves will be herding the sheep!


NOTE : Has anyone ever heard a new government official being identified as a
devout Catholic ,  a devout Jew or a devout Protestant...? Just wondering.


Devout Muslims being appointed to critical Homeland Security positions?

Doesn't this make you feel safer already??


That should make the United States much safer, huh!!

Was it not  "Devout Muslim men " that flew planes into U.S. buildings only 10 years ago?

We must never forget this..

Was it not a  Devout Muslim   man who killed 13 at Fort Hood ? (He killed "From within" -don't forget that).


Also: This is very interesting and we all need to read it from start to finish. Maybe this is why our
American Muslims are so quiet and not speaking out about any atrocities.

Can a good Muslim be a good American?
This question was forwarded to a friend who worked in Saudi Arabia for 20 years.
The following is his reply:


Theologically - no . . . Because his allegiance is to Allah, The moon God of Arabia

Religiously - no. Because no other religion is accepted by His Allah except Islam (Quran, 2:256)(Koran)

Scripturally - no. Because his allegiance is to the five Pillars of Islam and the Quran.

Geographically - no. Because his allegiance is to Mecca , to which he turns in prayer five times a day.

Socially - no. Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews..

Politically - no. Because he must submit to the mullahs (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of
Israel and destruction of America, the great Satan.

Domestically - no. Because he is instructed to marry four Women and beat and scourge his wife when
she disobeys him (Quran  4:34 )

Intellectually - no. Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on
Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.

Philosophically - no. Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do not allow freedom of religion and
expression.. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

Spiritually - no. Because when we declare 'one nation under God,' the Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as Heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in The Quran's 99 excellent names.


Therefore, after much study and deliberation. ... Perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. - - - They obviously cannot be both 'good' Muslims and good Americans. Call it what you wish, it's still the truth. You had better believe it. The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country and our future. The religious war is bigger than we know or understand.


Can a Muslim be a good soldier???


Army Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, opened fire at Ft. Hood and Killed 13. He is a good Muslim!!!

Footnote: The Muslims have said they will destroy us from within.

SO FREEDOM IS NOT FREE.


In God We Trust.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Frenchfry on August 30, 2014, 08:18:36 AM
Islam in a Nutshell
That's been widely distributed amongst the racist right-wing sites but you didn't provide a link to properly attribute it to the source.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: livewire on August 30, 2014, 08:37:06 AM
That's been widely distributed amongst the racist right-wing sites but you didn't provide a link to properly attribute it to the source.

So what? 

Liberals are the racists, and you know it.  I've proven it on this site.

You admit it is widely distributed, so finding a link to a source should pose no challenge to you.

The fact is it's the truth. 
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Frenchfry on August 30, 2014, 09:14:15 AM
So what? 

Liberals are the racists, and you know it.  I've proven it on this site.

You admit it is widely distributed, so finding a link to a source should pose no challenge to you.

The fact is it's the truth.
Without attribution...it's called plagiarism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagiarism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagiarism)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: livewire on August 30, 2014, 09:16:51 AM
No, it's called the truth.




And you know it.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Frenchfry on August 30, 2014, 09:48:04 AM
No, it's called the truth.




And you know it.
Actually, it appears to contain many falsehoods:
http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=34302 (http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=34302)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: livewire on August 30, 2014, 09:52:22 AM
Actually, it appears to contain many falsehoods:
[url]http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=34302[/url] ([url]http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=34302[/url])


I see.

So, in an attempt to dispute my facts, you link to another forum, where people comment about it and give their personal opinions, both pro and con, with nothing else to back it up.

Brilliant.   8*
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Frenchfry on August 30, 2014, 09:57:31 AM
I see.

So, in an attempt to dispute my facts, you link to another forum, where people comment about it and give their personal opinions, both pro and con, with nothing else to back it up.

Brilliant.   8*
It's snopes...but I guess you'd rather trust your plagiarized piece from who knows where.   8*
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: livewire on August 30, 2014, 10:02:53 AM
It's snopes...but I guess you'd rather trust your plagiarized piece from who knows where.   8*

Click on your own link, you jackass!!!  It's a public FORUM, where anybody can say anything!!!!
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Frenchfry on August 30, 2014, 10:17:16 AM
Click on your own link, you jackass!!!  It's a public FORUM, where anybody can say anything!!!!
It's still snopes moron...and there are facts that you're unable to dispute.

But clearly you prefer the one you plagiarized   8*
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Frenchfry on September 07, 2014, 02:56:38 AM
Cuss warning:

Politician Warns Christians About Muslims, ALL Of Them

"A Republican state representative in Oklahoma posted a message on Facebook warning his friends to be "wary" of "Muslim Americans," The Oklahoman reported.

In a Monday Facebook status, Rep. John Bennett (R) shared an article on ISIS with a message about his beliefs on Islam and that Muslims in the U.S. are dangerous:

'Islam and Muslim are one in the same. They are adjectives describing their religion. Islam is the religion, Muslim is the person that follows Islam. If someone claims to be Muslim they subscribe to Islam (Quran). The Quran clearly states that non Muslims should be killed. Arab is the ethnicity, not Muslim or Islam. Be wary of the individuals who claim to be "Muslim American". Be especially wary if you're a Christian.'"

www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTnNAhZgCtA&list=UU1yBKRuGpC1tSM73A0ZjYjQ&index=8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTnNAhZgCtA&list=UU1yBKRuGpC1tSM73A0ZjYjQ&index=8#)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on September 07, 2014, 09:10:47 AM
Good advice.

He has his eyes OPEN.

He is not blinded by POLITICAL CORRECTNESS to ignore the obvious.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Frenchfry on September 07, 2014, 07:15:06 PM
Good advice.

He has his eyes OPEN.

He is not blinded by POLITICAL CORRECTNESS to ignore the obvious.
Wait a minute.

I thought you righties would do anything to avoid reading my posts...much preferring the sphincter wrapped around the neck view.

But thanks for proving that racism is quite common amongst you so-called conservatives.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: excelsior on September 07, 2014, 07:37:47 PM
But thanks for proving that racism is quite common amongst you so-called conservatives.

Please explain your reasoning that allows you to equate Islam to a race.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: excelsior on September 07, 2014, 09:32:17 PM
If you had better reading comprehension you'd see the reference was about Muslims, not Islam.
And although both are actually religions...the right-wing racists consider the word Muslim to denote race.
While at first I thought it easier to foment hate...I realized hating religions other than their own is quite common as well...perhaps even more so since hate based on skin color defies logic.  Not to say hate based on religion doesn't...quite confusing but you're closer to those that hate than I so maybe you can shed some light on it?

I agree that it is confusing when you state that Islam (religion) and Muslim (a follower of Islam) are two religions.

You continue demonstrating your ignorance by stating that anyone that does not like Muslims is a racist.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: livewire on September 08, 2014, 07:41:26 AM
If you had better reading comprehension you'd see the reference was about Muslims, not Islam.
And although both are actually religions...the right-wing racists consider the word Muslim to denote race.


Really? ? ? ? ?  Muslim and Islam are two different religions?

Please tell us what the difference is between these two religions you speak of.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on September 08, 2014, 02:03:06 PM
I'm the ignorant one?

Really?

Give me a break.....
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Frenchfry on September 16, 2014, 01:57:56 AM
It's true, I'm not well versed on the issue since I find the whole hate thing being wagered by the right to be quite nonsensical.
I recently saw this:

13 Years After 9/11, Anti-Muslim Bigotry Is Worse Than Ever

Americans view Muslims far worse today than right after 9/11. Some of this is Muslims’ own fault. But the hate-mongering sure isn’t.

On 9/11, I didn’t watch the World Trade Center collapse on television like most people. I witnessed that tragedy a few blocks from where it occurred, standing motionless at 8th Street and 6th Avenue in lower Manhattan.

Images from that day are still seared in my mind. The South Tower buckling. A sobbing woman running by. An NYPD police car racing uptown covered in debris. A crystal blue sky.

Once we learned that al Qaeda was responsible for the attack, I knew there would be a backlash against Muslim and Middle Eastern Americans.  But what I could’ve never predicted was that, 13 years later, my fellow Americans would view Muslims far worse today than in the months after 9/11.

The numbers tell a distressing tale. In October 2001, an ABC poll found that 47 percent of Americans had a favorable view of Islam. By 2010, that number had dropped to 37 percent.

And today, alarmingly, only 27 percent of Americans have a favorable view of Muslim Americans. This last poll is the most concerning because it shows how my fellow Americans see my Muslim friends, colleagues and even me—because I’m Muslim.

How did we get to this place? That’s a question I’ve been asking myself over and over.

There are a few key factors. Undisputedly the horrible acts committed by radical Muslims have had a big impact.  In the last year alone we’ve seen the Boston Marathon bombing, the Boko Haram kidnappings of schoolgirls, and now ISIS rampaging through Iraq and Syria.

Another reason is that many Americans tell me they don’t see Muslims publicly condemning these terrorists. They want to be convinced that the radicals are truly the exception and not “true Islam.”

Of course, condemning terrorism and getting media coverage for it are two different things. A grisly beheading results in days of media coverage. Muslim leaders holding a press conference denouncing terrorism, which they have done extensively in response to ISIS, will result in two to three minutes of media coverage on cable news, if they’re lucky.

Making our efforts more challenging is that we are a small minority group, comprising only 1 to 2 percent of the nation. Unsurprisingly, a recent Pew poll found that more than 60 percent of Americans don’t even personally know a Muslim.

If you only see news stories that present Muslims in a negative light, and you have no personal connection to Muslims to offer a counter narrative, I can understand why many hold negative views of us.

Compounding this issue is that there are few positive images of Muslims or Muslim Americans in American entertainment media. In fact, the exact opposite is true as Hollywood has made millions furthering the worst image of Muslims. And I can tell you firsthand as someone who has pitched film and TV shows that would depict Muslims in a positive light, there’s little appetite in Hollywood for such projects.

But there’s something else causing this. And it’s something truly despicable. There are people who intentionally stoke the flames of hate against our community.

Some do it because they simply detest/fear anyone who doesn’t pray or look like them. For some, Muslim bashing is their career. They make a living writing books and giving lectures about how Muslims want to destroy America.

And then there are the politicians, almost exclusively Republicans, who gin up hate of the “other” for political gain. The anti-sharia law measures passed in states like Florida and North Carolina are a prime example.

The proponents of these laws will demonize Muslims while making the case for these measures. Yet they publicly admit there are zero instances of Muslims trying to impose Islamic law in their respective states. For example, Florida State Senator Alan Hays conceded as much but argued the anti-Shaira law legislation was needed as a “preemptive measure,” similar to when  your parents would “have you vaccinated against different diseases.”
And worse, we have seen unmitigated hate spewed by some Republicans that could inspire hate crimes. For example, just last week Oklahoma State Representative John Bennett wrote on his official Facebook page that Christians should be “wary” of Muslim Americans because they are planning to kill Christians.  Not only did Bennett refuse to apologize for his comments, the Oklahoma state Republican chair defended Bennett.

What a difference from the words President George W. Bush offered our nation in the days after 9/11. Bush, with the World Trade Center still literally smoldering, visited the large Islamic Center in Washington, D.C., and denounced those who were demonizing Muslim Americans: “Those who feel like they can intimidate our fellow citizens to take out their anger don’t represent the best of America, they represent the worst of humankind, and they should be ashamed of that kind of behavior.”

Bush added:  “America counts millions of Muslims amongst our citizens, and Muslims make an incredibly valuable contribution to our country. Muslims are doctors, lawyers, law professors, members of the military, entrepreneurs, shopkeepers, moms and dads. And they need to be treated with respect.”

So what’s the future for Muslim Americans? Will we see even more hate crimes against Muslims? And Sikhs, whom many misidentify as Muslims? These numbers have spiked in recent years. And just last week my friend Linda Sarsour, a hijab-wearing civil rights activist, was attacked on the streets of New York City by a man who shouted that he wanted to behead her and then chased her into traffic. Thankfully, Linda was not injured and the assailant, a white male, was arrested.

Will we see an even higher number of employment discrimination claims filed by Muslim Americans? Currently over 20 percent of the claims filed with the EEOC are from Muslims, even though we comprise just 2 percent of the country.

I want to be optimistic. I want to be able to say in a few years it will be better. But I don’t know if that’s true.

What I can say with confidence is that American Muslims are not going anywhere. Yes, we will denounce those who commit horrible acts in the name of our faith to make it clear their actions don’t represent us. However, our focus is pursuing our American dream just like every other American. We will become doctors, deli owners, teachers, parents, and maybe even one day, President of the United States.

And what I can also say to the bigots is that we will continue, together with the good people who stand with us, to fight your efforts to demonize and marginalize us simply because of our faith. We won’t do that because it’s demanded of us as Muslims, we will do that because it’s demanded of us as Americans.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/09/11/13-years-after-9-11-anti-muslim-bigotry-is-worse-than-ever.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/09/11/13-years-after-9-11-anti-muslim-bigotry-is-worse-than-ever.html)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Frenchfry on September 16, 2014, 02:08:28 AM
Islam is not a new religion, but the same truth that God revealed through all His prophets to every people. For a fifth of the world's population, Islam is both a religion and a complete way of life. Muslims follow a religion of peace, mercy, and forgiveness, and the majority have nothing to do with the extremely grave events which have come to be associated with their faith.
http://www.islamicity.com/education/understandingislamandmuslims/?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1 (http://www.islamicity.com/education/understandingislamandmuslims/?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1)

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Portraits of Ordinary Muslims
A glimpse of how diverse Muslims from around the world find their faith intertwining with their lives, identities and politics.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/muslims/portraits/ (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/muslims/portraits/)

===

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim)

===

http://www.gotquestions.org/Islam.html (http://www.gotquestions.org/Islam.html)

===

Muslims (nationality)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslims_(nationality) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslims_(nationality))
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Frenchfry on September 16, 2014, 02:16:34 AM
You don't have to agree with this person but please stop the senseless hate.

IDENTITY VS. NATIONALITY VS. ETHNICITY

Being half Pakistani, half white, raised in America and living in the UAE, I'd long ago learned that when people ask me where I'm from, they don't want to hear 'Chicago.' They want to know why I look like an Arab, sound like an American and hang out with a brown guy who bears striking resemblance to my Turkish-looking children. So I have no problem presenting my pedigree at the drop of the hat, because I know that there is no short and accurate answer. I'm Muslim, I was raised in America, but have also lived in Pakistan for eight years, my mother is American, my father is Pakistani. My father is Muslim, my mother is Mormon. No, they are not divorced.

“Ah, yes yes,” people nod, as things start to make sense. Then the next question comes:“And your husband, he is local?” When people here say local, they mean local Emirati, and they ask because any foreign Muslim woman wearing a black abaya must to be married to her local counterpart in the white kandoora, right? (salt and pepper, yin and yang?) “Actually,” I say, “My husband is Pakistani.”

“Bakistani?”

“Yes…” I try to explain, because the brown guy in the Blogger t-shirt with the standard Midwestern accent who says things like, “Hey, howyadoin?” does not fit inside of the box traditionally reserved for Bakistani. “Well, his parents are from Pakistan, but he was born in Kuwait. And raised in Oman. And went to school in the UAE, and college in the US. And, he's never lived in Pakistan, but I'm sure he's visited a few times.” People nod uncertainly. “So I mean, he's Pakistani, but he's not really very Pakistani? I mean, I'm more Urdu-literate than he is! But he looks brown, so his Urdu comes off better than mine, and his accent is better too.” And then people start to get that polite look of panic in their eyes that is usually accompanied by a sudden urge to rush home and see if they left the iron plugged in.

I think it's easier for me to explain myself than it is for him, because I at least was born in, and brought up in, the country of my nationality. He was born in country A, raised in countries B and C, educated in country D, and has a passport from (but has never lived in) country D. And in this country, your salary and your renumeration package is directly connected to your nationality. [Yes, it's racist, idiotic, and unfair. No, I can't do anything about it. The Mighty Whities (US, UK, Australian, and South African Nationals) get top dollars, top benefits, and more prominent positions. The rest of us are on a much, much lower pay scale, with much fewer benefits. Why? Because if you, Brown Guy #237, don't like it, there are 67,409 other Brown Guys standing in line behind you who are willing to work for what it a humungous salary back home, though a paltry one according to the expenses of Dubai. If White Guy #1 doesn't like his job, how will we ever replace him? Do you have any idea how hard it is to coax a white guy out here? Quick, meet his demands! His accent makes our company sound posh!]

The office, who is legally obliged to give employees tickets “home” once a year, wants to give my husband tickets to a home he's never lived in, because his passport is Pakistani. So, to get tickets back to the “home” he actually has family in, he says he's American. That also explains the way he talks, but not the way he looks. But then he has to deal with people on both sides of the fence who say things like: “American? You're not an American, you're a Pakistani national!” And if he says he's Pakistani, people say things like, “Oh, where from?” and he says “I don't know, I've never lived there….” So where did you live before this? “Umm, America.” In some ways this is very typical of what I call “The International Muslim.” Yesterday we went to the barbeque of another “Pakistani” family, born in Saudi, raised in Connecticut, moved to Dubai last year. We had steak and barbecue chicken, we played Scrabble and we've invited them over some time after next week. We'll make sushi. Chai, a dear friend of mine, once told me a story about her young brother, Ismo. Ismo, then seven or eight, brought a friend over from school to play. Chai overheard the following conversation:

“Hey, what are you? Are you Muslim?”

“Muslim? I don't know.”

“Well, do you eat rice?”

“Yes.”

“Then you're Muslim.”

I often remember that story when people ask me what “I am.” This is a different question from 'where are you from' or 'what is your nationality.' This is not a question of ethnicity or nationality, this is a question of identity. They want to know what my culture is. Do I make Nihari? Yes. Does that make me a Pakistani? I don't know, do Pakistanis traditionally bake gingerbread men for Ramadan? Does my husband eat Pakistani food? Yes, does that make him Pakistani? Not any more than eating sushi makes him Japanese, and we roll our sushi at home. I don't think that the food you eat determines 'what you are,' nor does the way you behave neatly define what your culture is. Do I respect my elders? Yes. Is that an exclusively Asian thing? Nope. Was I an obnoxious teenager? Oh yes. Is that an exclusively 'American' thing? Unfortunately, no.

I long ago realized I was too brown for the whites and too white for the browns. My first language is English but I have a funny foreign name. My Urdu is awful but my father is Pakistani, and my freckles are part of my Irish heritage. My passport is American but my wardrobe alone scares the bjeezus out of most Americans. My accent may be as American as apple pie, but my abaya most certainly isn't. So what am I? What is the determining factor for one's identity, if it is not nationality or ethnicity? Vague ideas of what is 'culture' differ on a regional or ethnic level, and are the passing whims of popularity and generally accepted social norms. You can argue that certain things make you American, but a hundred years ago, those same behaviours would be shocking, outrageous, and very un-American. (June is Gay Pride month in the US) They're not standards, they're just a sign of the times.

Even if I were to choose to be American, and to abide by the generally accepted principals of what being 'American' means, there are no principles of American-ness. Having a passport alone doesn't make me an 'American,' it only makes me an American national. I could choose to be Pakistani, but again, there's no documented process. My father is Pakistani, and he identifies with the culture and was born within the borders of the country, but guess what- he's an American national too. Being born in a certain country doesn't mean they'll teach you the secret handshake either- husband was born in Kuwait, and he is most definitely not a Kuwaiti, even when he does wear a kandoora. Ethnicity alone doesn't convey identity either, because I'm not an Irishwoman any more than my mother is. Without an agreed-upon standard determining the requirements of identity, the only thing left to fall back on is choice.

I did not choose to be born in America, any more than I chose to have a Pakistani father and an American mother. My ethnicity was set before I was even born, and my nationality can be changed if I decide to say… apply for Canadian immigration. My identity is the only thing I exert any control over. I choose to be Muslim, I identify with Muslims of all colors and countries, because we have an agreed upon standard of Muslim-ness. If you believe in Allah, and His Messenger, and the Qur'an, and you try to follow it- you're Muslim. These elements of belief are all matters of choice as well, and someone can easily choose to NOT be Muslim if they wanted to, and that choice alone would be sufficient for them to no longer be considered part of the Ummah anymore.

The food I cook is not determined by what my ancestors cooked, but by what is halal. The clothes I wear are not any specific national dress, they are pieces of cloth arranged in such a way that they fulfill the Islamic requirements for modesty; abaya, shalwar qameez, or skirt or whatever. I don't dance at Mehndhi parties just because 'I'm Pakistani' or go to prom just because 'I'm American.' I do, however, pray salah, fast, give zakah and wear a hijab because 'I'm Muslim.' My traditions and rituals are not specific to any tribe or cultural legacy, they are a follow-through on the Qur'an and the consensus of the scholars on the Sunnah, and I would be an arrogant idiot to say everything I did was 100% Islamic, but I can honestly say that the only defining culture I have is what has been given to me of Islam.

So what am I? Culturally, and consciously, I'm a Muslim. alhamdulillah. My nationality is American, and my ethnicity is Irish-Pakistani. I'm married to a lovely man whose ethnicity and nationality are Pakistani, but whose upbringing is as crisscrossed as international flight patterns. He's a Muslim too. My children are also Muslim, and insha'Allah, may they live in the state of Islam and not die except in a state of submission. They are American nationals born in the UAE who are ethnically 25% Irish, though they have never been to Ireland, and 75% Pakistani, though they have never been to Pakistan. Allah is the Lord of the East and the West, and the whole earth is a place of worship. Who knows where my children will live when they grow up, or how many strangers they'll scare away when asked what they are?
http://muslimmatters.org/2010/05/19/identity-vs-nationality-vs-ethnicity-2/ (http://muslimmatters.org/2010/05/19/identity-vs-nationality-vs-ethnicity-2/)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Frenchfry on September 16, 2014, 02:20:20 AM
Appears I wasn't the only one confused:

Is muslim a nationality?

David S:
No. It's a religion. Like Christianity, Buddhism, Hindu, and Judaism.

?:
It's a religion, not a nationality. One is Muslim if their religion is Islam.

La lis blance de Arizona:
No. A nationality refers to coming from a country, french, english, spanish. Muslim is a religious affiliation like jewish, christian, or wiccan. Arab refers to a group of ethnicity's like asians or europeans.

shirleykins:
No. It's one of the fastest growing religions in the world.

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080521185953AAZuVrI
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Frenchfry on September 16, 2014, 02:24:05 AM
(http://www.30factsaboutislam.com/Pamphlet-Header-1.gif)

1) "Islam" means "surrender" or "submission". "Salam" (which means "peace") is the root word of "Islam". In a religious context the word "Islam" means "the surrendering of one's will (without compulsion) to the true will of God in an effort to achieve peace".

2) "Muslim" means "anyone or anything that surrenders itself to the true will of God". By this definition, everything in nature (trees, animals, planets, etc.) are "muslims" because they are in a state of surrender to God's will. In other words, they are fulfilling the purpose for which God created them.

3) Islam is not a new religion or cult. Along with Judaism and Christianity it traces its roots through Prophet Abraham and back to the first humans Adam and Eve. Studies show that between 1.5 and 1.8 billion people in the world today identify their religion as Islam.

4) There are five pillars of practice in Islam. These practices must be undertaken with the best of effort in order to be considered a true Muslim: A) Declaration of faith in One God and that Muhammad is a prophet of God. B) Formal prayer five times a day. C) Poor-due "tax" - 2.5% of one's excess wealth given to the needy once a year. D) Pilgrimage to Mecca at least once, if physically and financially able. E) Fasting during the daylight hours in the month of Ramadan.

5) There are six articles of faith in Islam. These are the basic beliefs that one must have in order to be considered a true Muslim. They are belief in: A) the One God. B) all of the true prophets of God. C) the original scriptures revealed to Moses, David, Jesus and Muhammad. D) the angels. E) the Day of Judgment and the Hereafter. F) destiny.

6) Islam is a complete way of life that governs all facets of life: moral, spiritual, physical, intellectual, social, economical, etc.

7) Islam is one of the fastest growing religions in the world. To become Muslim, a person of any race or culture must say a simple statement, the shahadah, that bears witness to the belief in the One God and that Muhammad is a prophet of God.

8.) "Allah" is an Arabic word that means "God". Muslims also believe that "Allah" is the personal name of God.

9) Allah is not the God of Muslims only. He is the God of all people and all creation. Just because people refer to God using different terms does not mean there are different gods. Many Hispanics refer to God as "Dios" and many French refer to God as "Dieu" yet they mean the same God. Many Arab Jews and Arab Christians call God "Allah" and the word "Allah" (in Arabic script) appears on the walls of many Arab churches and on the pages of Arabic Bibles. Although the understanding of God may differ between the various faith groups, it does not change the fact that the One Lord and Creator of the Universe is the God of all people.

10) The Islamic concept of God is that He is loving, merciful and compassionate. Islam also teaches that He is just and swift in punishment. However, Allah once said to Muhammad, "My mercy prevails over my wrath". So Islam teaches a balance between fear and hope, protecting one from both complacency and despair.

11) Muslims believe that God has revealed 99 of His names, or attributes, in the Qur'an. It is through these names that one can come to know the Creator. A few of these names are the All-Merciful, the All-Knower, the Protector, the Provider, the Near, the First, the Last, the Hidden and the Source of All Peace.

12) The Christian concept of "vicarious atonement" (the idea that Jesus died for the sins of humanity) is alien to the Islamic concept of personal responsibility. Islam teaches that on the Day of Judgment every person will be resurrected and will be accountable to God for their every word and deed. Consequently, a practicing Muslim is always striving to be righteous while hoping and praying for God's acceptance and grace.

13) Muslims believe in all of the true prophets that preceded Muhammad, from Adam to Jesus. Muslims believe they brought the same message of voluntarily surrendering to God's will (islam, in a generic sense) to different peoples at different times. Muslims also believe they were "muslims" (again, in a generic sense) since they followed God's true guidance and surrendered their will to Him.

14) Muslims neither worship Muhammad nor pray through him. Muslims solely worship the Unseen and Omniscient Creator, Allah.

15) Muslims accept the original unaltered Torah (as revealed to Moses) and the original unaltered Bible (as revealed to Jesus) since they were revealed by God. But none of these scriptures exist today in their original form or in their entirety. Therefore, Muslims follow the subsequent, final and preserved revelation of God, the Qur'an.

16) The Qur'an was not authored by Muhammad. It was authored by God, revealed to Muhammad (through angel Gabriel) and written into physical form by his companions.

17) The original Arabic text of the Qur'an contains no flaws or contradictions, and has not been altered since its revelation.

18) Actual 7th century Qur'ans, complete and intact, are on display in museums in Turkey and other places around the world.

19) If all Qur'ans in the world today were destroyed, the original Arabic would still remain. This is because millions of Muslims, called "hafiz" (or "guardians") have memorized the text letter for letter from beginning to end, every word and every syllable. Also, chapters from the Qur'an are precisely recited from memory in each of the five formal prayers performed daily by hundreds of millions of Muslims throughout the world.

20) Some attribute the early and rapid spread of Islam to forced conversions by the sword. While it is accurate that the Muslim empire initially spread, for the most part, through battles and conquests (a common phenomenon for that time) the religion of Islam itself was never forced on anyone who found themselves living under Muslim rule. In fact, non-Muslims were afforded the right to worship as they pleased as long as a tax, called "jizyah", was paid. During the Dark Ages, Jews, Christians and others were given protection by the Muslims from religious persecutions happening in Europe. Islam teaches no compulsion in religion (Qur'an 2:256 and 10:99). For more, read "The Spread of Islam in the World" by Thomas Arnold.

21) Terrorism, unjustified violence and the killing of non-combatant civilians (or even intimidating, threatening or injuring them) are all absolutely forbidden in Islam. Islam is a way of life that is meant to bring peace to a society whether its people are Muslim or not. The extreme actions of those who claim to be Muslim may be a result of their ignorance, frustration, uncontrolled anger or political (not religious) ambitions. Anyone who condones or commits an act of terrorism in the name of Islam is simply not following Islam and is, in fact, violating its very tenets. These people are individuals with their own personal views and agendas. Fanatical Muslims are no more representative of the true teachings of Islam than fanatical Christians are of the true teachings of Christianity or fanatical Jews are of the true teachings of Judaism. The most prominent examples of such "religious" fanatics are Anders Behring Breivik, the 2011 Norwegian terrorist who claimed in his manifesto to be "100 percent Christian" and Baruch Goldstein, perpetrator of the 1994 Hebron massacre who is considered by some Jews to be a "hero" and a "saint". Extremism and fanaticism are problems not exclusive to Muslims. Anyone who thinks that all Muslims are terrorists should remember that the former boxer Muhammad Ali, perhaps the most celebrated person of our era, is a practicing Muslim.

22) The word "jihad" does not mean "holy war". It actually means "to struggle" or "to strive". In a religious context it means the struggle to successfully surrender one's will to the will of God. Some Muslims may say they are going for "jihad" when fighting in a war to defend themselves or others, but they say this because they are conceding that it will be a tremendous struggle. But there are many other forms of jihad which are much more relevant to the everyday life of a Muslim such as the struggles against laziness, arrogance, stinginess, one's own ego, or the struggle against a tyrant ruler or against the temptations of Satan, etc. Regarding the so-called verses of "holy war" in the Qur'an, two points: A) The term "holy war" neither appears in the Arabic text of the Qur'an nor in any classical teachings of Islam. B) The vast majority of verses in the Qur'an pertaining to violence refer to wartime situations in which Muslims were permitted to defend themselves against violent aggression. Any rational, intellectual analysis of the context and historical circumstances surrounding such verses, often ignored by pundits or violent extremists, proves this to be true. Other verses of violence deal with stopping oppression, capital punishment and the like.

23) Women are not oppressed in Islam. Any Muslim man that oppresses a woman is not following Islam. Among the many teachings of Muhammad that protected the rights and dignity of women is his saying, "...the best among you are those who treat their wives well."

24) Islam grants women many rights in the home and in society. Among them are the right to earn money, to financial support, to own property, to an education, to an inheritance, to being treated kindly, to vote, to a bridal gift, to keep their maiden name, to worship in a mosque, to a divorce, and so on.

25) Muslim women wear the head-covering (hijab) in fulfillment of God's decree to dress modestly. This type of modest dress has been worn by religious women throughout time such as traditional Catholic nuns, Mother Teresa and the Virgin Mary.

26) Forced marriages, honor killings, female genital mutilation and the confinement of women to their homes are all forbidden in Islam. These practices stem from deeply entrenched cultural traditions and/or ignorance of the true Islamic teachings or how to apply them in society. Arranged marriages are allowed in Islam but are not required. In fact, one of the conditions for a valid Islamic marriage contract is the mutual consent of both parties to the marriage. And divorce is permissible provided the Islamic guidelines are followed which protect the rights of all affected parties, especially women and unborn children.

27) Islam and the Nation "of Islam" are two different religions. Islam is a religion for all races and enjoins the worship of the One Unseen God who never took human form. On the other hand "the Nation" is a movement geared towards non-whites that teaches God appeared as a man named Fard Muhammad and that Elijah Muhammad was a prophet. According to orthodox Islam these are blasphemous beliefs that contradict the basic theology defined throughout the Qur'an and other authentic texts. The followers of "the Nation" adhere to some Islamic principles that are mixed with other practices and beliefs completely alien to authentic Islamic teachings. To better understand the differences read about Malcolm X, his pilgrimage to Mecca and his subsequent comments to the media. Islam teaches equality amongst the races (Qur'an 49:13).

28) All Muslims are not Arab, Middle-Eastern or of African descent. Islam is a universal religion and way of life that includes followers from all races. There are Muslims in and from virtually every country in the world. Arabs only constitute about 20% of Muslims worldwide. The country today with the largest Muslim population is not located in the Middle East. It is Indonesia with over 200 million Muslims. India ranks second with 175 million.

29) In the five daily prayers Muslims face the Kaaba in Mecca, Saudi Arabia. It is a cube-shaped stone structure that was built by Prophet Abraham and his son Ishmael on the same foundations where Prophet Adam is believed to have built a sanctuary for the worship of the One God. Muslims do not worship the Kaaba. It serves as a focal point for Muslims around the world, unifying them in worship and symbolizing their common belief, spiritual focus and direction. Interestingly the inside of the Kaaba is empty.

30) The hajj is an annual pilgrimage to the Kaaba made by about 3 million Muslims from all corners of the Earth. It is performed to fulfill one of the pillars of Islam. The rituals of hajj commemorate the struggles of Abraham, his wife Hagar and their son Ishmael in surrendering their wills to God.
http://www.30factsaboutislam.com/ (http://www.30factsaboutislam.com/)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: excelsior on September 16, 2014, 04:32:25 PM
It's true, I'm not well versed on the issue

You had me fooled.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: excelsior on September 16, 2014, 04:36:50 PM

Interesting discussion starts around the 1:20 mark.

Bill Maher Battles Charlie Rose on Why Islam is More Dangerous than Other Religions (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjInNxIwfRw#)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: excelsior on September 18, 2014, 08:06:18 PM
It will be interesting to hear the details of this story in the coming days.


Australia Raids Thwarted ISIS Beheading Plot

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/australian-leader-warns-planned-random-attack-25585654 (http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/australian-leader-warns-planned-random-attack-25585654)

The Islamic State plot to carry out random beheadings in Sydney alleged by police is a simple and barbaric scheme that has shaken Australians. But terrorism experts on Friday questioned whether the ruthless movement had the capacity or inclination to sustain a terror campaign so far from the Middle East.

Police said they thwarted a plot to carry out beheadings in Australia by Islamic State group supporters when they raided more than a dozen properties across Sydney on Thursday.

Two of the 15 suspects detained by police were charged in court on Thursday, officials said.

Nine others were freed before the day was over.

Some terrorism experts saw the plot as a potential shift in Islamic State's focus from creating an Islamic caliphate in the Middle East. Others, including Professor of International Relations and Security Studies at Murdoch University, Samuel Makinda, said it is more likely a symptom of policy confusion within a disparate group.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Frenchfry on October 02, 2014, 01:38:39 PM
Tea-Party Hate: Rep. Michele Bachmann Declares War on an Entire Religion -- ISLAM!

Tea-Party Hate: Rep. Michele Bachmann Declares War on an Entire Religion -- ISLAM! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0riGrZEHIQM&list=UUTCEwB_3dgYPDZv4HdKcC1w#)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Frenchfry on October 02, 2014, 01:40:49 PM
Why ISIS Is Not, In Fact, Islamic

Conservatives reacted harshly to President Obama’s claim on Wednesday night that the Islamic State in Iraq and Greater Syria (ISIS) “is not Islamic,” accusing the commander-in-chief of naiveté and ignorance. “What kindergartner briefs the President on terrorism?” Ron Christie, a GOP strategist tweeted. “ISIS says it’s Islamic, lots of people say it’s Islamic, only the president won’t,” George Will told Fox News shortly after the speech.

But the full context of Obama’s remark points to an important distinction between Islam and the extremist ideology that’s sweeping parts of Iraq and Syria. “No religion condones the killing of innocents, and the vast majority of ISIL’s victims have been Muslim,” Obama said. “ISIL is a terrorist organization, pure and simple. And it has no vision other than the slaughter of all who stand in its way.”

Indeed, even from the viewpoint of a casual observer, ISIS is an abomination to Islam. Explosions tend to capture the media’s attention more than peaceful coexistence, and a minuscule minority of extremist groups claiming to be Islamic have exploited this fact as a way to reinvent Islam as a “violent” religion. But just because you shout God’s name while committing murder doesn’t make your actions righteous. Islam, as millions of Muslims can attest, is a peaceful religion that calls on its followers to choose community over conflict, or, as it says in Surah al-Hujurat of the Qur’an (49:13): “O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise [each other]).”

But ISIS clearly has little regard for this or other fundamental tenets of Islam. They have sparked the rage of Iraqi Muslims by carelessly blowing up copies of the Qur’an, and they have killed their fellow Muslims, be they Sunni or Shia. Even extremist Muslims who engage in warfare have strict rules of engagement and prohibitions against harming women and children, but ISIS has opted to ignore even this by slaughtering innocent youth and using rape and sexual slavery as a weapon.

And despite the conservative backlash, Obama’s analysis has received support from an unlikely voice: Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY). During an appearance on Fox News’ Hannity, the potential 2016 presidential candidate, praised the president for differentiating ISIS ideology from the beliefs of Muslims in America and around the world. “Well, I think there was one important point that he was making about them not being Islamic or a form of true Islam,” he said. “I think it is important not only to the American public but for the world and the Islamic world to point out this is not a true form of Islam. This is an aberrant form that should not represent most of the civilized Islamic world.”

Granted, it’s always a tricky business decrying a religious tradition that is not your own. Also, while many faiths have internal hierarchies with judges that decide what is or isn’t proper behavior, Islam is a decentralized religious tradition that — as much as ISIS claims otherwise — lacks a single religious authority. But just as the diverse collective of Protestant Christians listen to each other, the opinion of a broader Islamic community always matters, and President Obama’s condemnation of ISIS is backed up by a global chorus of Muslim voices that are working to rebuke the group’s claim on Islam. Virtually every single American Muslim organization has publicly disavowed both the ideology and the practices of ISIS, and just hours before Obama’s address, dozens of Muslim American clerics and community leaders distanced their religion from the beliefs of the terrorist extremists. “ISIS and al Qaeda represent a warped religious ideology,” Faizal Khan, imam of the Islamic Society of America mosque in Silver Spring, said during a press conference with Muslim-American leaders from Indonesia, Pakistan, Ethiopia, Sudan and Trinidad. “Either we reject this violence in the clearest possible terms, or we allow them to become the face of Islam and the world’s perception of us for years to come.”

Countless Islamic groups around the globe have also vehemently rejected ISIS. French Imams are blasting the militant group from their pulpits. Britian’s largest Mosque has declared them “Un-Islamic.” Sunni and Shia clerics in Iraq have distributed a fatwa to nearly 50,000 mosques announcing that ISIS is “not in any way linked to [the Muslim] faith” and warning that failing to stand up against the group is effectively a sin. Even Egypt’s Grand Mufti has lambasted the group, and Dar al-Ifta, one of the most influential Muslim schools in the world, has launched a global campaign to strike the word “Islamic” from ISIS’s title, seeking to rebrand it as “al-Qaeda Separatists in Iraq and Syria,” or QSIS, saying the organization has “tarnished image of Islam across the globe.”

As one Libyan tweeted: “If you think Muslims aren’t condemning ISIS, it’s not because Muslims aren’t condemning ISIS. It’s because you’re not listening to Muslims.”

This issue, of course, isn’t unique to Islam. The Ku Klux Klan burns crosses and preaches hate in the name of Jesus Christ, and the ostensibly Christian “Lord’s Resistance Army” regularly ravages villages and recruits child soldiers in Western Africa. Hindu extremists burned mosques and sparked violence in India in the 1990s. Buddhist extremists exist, and are spewing hatred in several parts of Asia. But in all of these cases, the vast majority of believers worked or are working to disavow the actions of fanatics and preserve the core, peaceful principles of their faith — just as Muslims are now doing with ISIS.

Ultimately, the decision of whether or not one is or isn’t religious is left up to God. But we are all tasked with religious life here on earth, where the opinion of a religious community should matter, and Muslims the world over have made their position clear: No matter how many people they kill to gain power, how many fellow Muslims they terrorize into submission, or how loudly they scream their self-righteous blasphemy to the heavens, ISIS is not — nor will ever be — Islamic.
http://thinkprogress.org/world/2014/09/11/3566181/why-isis-is-in-fact-not-islamic/ (http://thinkprogress.org/world/2014/09/11/3566181/why-isis-is-in-fact-not-islamic/)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: SidecarFlip on October 02, 2014, 07:38:31 PM
Maybe you should adopt a couple radical muslims.  Better yet, take in a Liberian and hope for the best.

Don't loose your head over it. ;D
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on October 02, 2014, 10:18:17 PM
Or lose it if you want to.

Don't let me stop you.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Frenchfry on October 10, 2014, 08:43:50 AM
Fox News Host Gets Angry When Guests Won’t Condemn Islam

A Fox News host became visibly angry on Monday while trying to defend comedian Bill Maher’s comments about Islam. On Friday, the “Real Time” host argued that Islam “is the only religion that acts like the mafia” as he expanded on his claim that the “vast numbers of Muslims want humans to die for holding a different idea.”
In a segment about those remarks, Fox News host Bill Hemmer battled with two guests who took issue with Maher’s broad characterization. As they condemned the HBO host for painting the world’s one billion Muslims with too broad a brush, Hemmer insisted that Maher was accurate in his characterization.
“How do you define what’s bigotry and what’s just reality?” he asked, defending Maher’s position. After both guests criticized Maher’s comments, Hemmer interjected, telling them that they were “missing the point here.” “[Maher] is arguing about 2014,” he explained, implying that the religion is currently overflowing with terrorists.
As guest Bernard Whitman pointed out that “[Maher] indicted a billion Muslims with that comment,” Hemmer interrupted in frustration. “I can’t believe I’m defending Bill Maher!” he exclaimed, before insisting that the comedian was only referring to “radical Islam.”
Watch the exchange:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykuxtnG_i54 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykuxtnG_i54#)

“The issue is not the religion of Islam, the issue is the politicization in the Islamic organizations that are using Islam as a crutch and as a shield to hide their true terrorist nature,” Whitman told Hemmer. Indeed, nearly every American Muslim organization and Muslim leaders around the world have condemned the ideology and actions of terrorists and ISIS, with some petitioning the name of the terrorist group be changed to “Unislamic State.”
Fox News has a lot history of trying to conflate terrorists with Islam. Fox host Steve Doocy has claimed that President Obama went to a “madrassa” and was possibly a Muslim extremist, Brian Kilmeade suggested “special screenings” for Muslim American soldiers after the Fort Hood shootings in 2009 and linked a commonly-used Arabic phrase to terrorism. Most recently, Bill O’Reilly criticized Bowe Bergdahl’s dad for looking too much like a Muslim.
http://thinkprogress.org/world/2014/10/06/3576385/fox-news-host-visibly-angry-when-guests-dont-agree-agree-with-maher-and-condemn-islam/ (http://thinkprogress.org/world/2014/10/06/3576385/fox-news-host-visibly-angry-when-guests-dont-agree-agree-with-maher-and-condemn-islam/)

===

Cuss warning:

Anti-Muslim Bias Goes WAY Beyond Bill Maher & Sam Harris

"On September 17, 2001, President George W. Bush gave his "Islam is peace" speech from the Islamic Center of Washington DC, tucked into a leafy stretch of embassy row. He urged the country to embrace "fellow Americans" who are Muslim as well as Islam itself "with respect," explaining to a country full of "anger and emotion" that the jihadists who'd struck a few days earlier were insane outliers and not representative of the religion.

Since then, there has been a tension in how Islam is discussed in American media, and especially in its most populist and popular form, television. Americans typically follow Bush's advice, but sometimes they struggle, particularly when violent extremist groups are in the news. In recent weeks, that strain of Islamophobia in the US has risen along with media attention to the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS), reaching crisis levels —particularly on American TV news.

Because 38 percent of Americans say they personally know someone who is Muslim, most of us rely on the media to shape our opinions of Muslims and of Islam. And the media is badly failing in its responsibilities to portray Muslims carefully and accurately."

www.youtube.com/watch?v=9t2QpBEUHk0&index=5&list=UU1yBKRuGpC1tSM73A0ZjYjQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9t2QpBEUHk0&index=5&list=UU1yBKRuGpC1tSM73A0ZjYjQ#)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: SidecarFlip on October 10, 2014, 10:59:45 PM
Maybe Fry should do Koran readings in his basement.....  Oh wait, people who live where he does, don't have basments.....  too swampy.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on October 11, 2014, 11:12:51 PM
Maybe Fry should do Koran readings in his basement.....  Oh wait, people who live where he does, don't have basments.....  too swampy.

Often their living rooms are in the lake.

Then the taxpayers bail them out.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: SidecarFlip on October 11, 2014, 11:22:43 PM
How exciting.  Ya mean their living rooms smell like stink'in algae?
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on October 11, 2014, 11:30:39 PM
How exciting.  Ya mean their living rooms smell like stink'in algae?

I don't know.

My friends have more sense then to live in flood planes.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: The Fuzz on October 12, 2014, 10:08:54 AM
Where do they live then, earthquake zones?
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on October 12, 2014, 06:41:35 PM
Where do they live then, earthquake zones?

Actually those guys live in Flood Plains, Earthquake Zones, Tsunami Areas, areas that have Typhoons, and it is Humid and Rains alot.

It is also crowded and hard to find a parking place.

They like it though, it is home.

One thing - no Mosques.

They wont let those idiots stay very long if they let them in at all.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Frenchfry on October 13, 2014, 07:14:10 AM
I don't know.

My friends have more sense then to live in flood planes.
LOL...
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Frenchfry on January 03, 2015, 01:40:28 AM
Christian Tries To Blow Up Mosques In Israel To Fulfill Biblical Prophecy

"An American being held in Israel on weapons charges has told investigators he was considering attacking Muslim holy sites, Israeli police say.

Adam Everett Livix, a Christian wanted in the US on drugs charges, was arrested last month after an undercover agent discovered the alleged plot.

Weapons and ammunition stolen from the Israeli army were found at his home.

Mr Livix's lawyer said the Israeli authorities were exaggerating the security implications of the case."

www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVeTZHwv6Q4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVeTZHwv6Q4#)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Professor H on July 05, 2015, 12:47:32 PM
I see they are continuing the respect and treatment of women...   

Woman accused gets death

Men who did it - get reprieve

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/03/world/asia/death-sentences-in-lynching-of-afghan-woman-reportedly-overturned.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/03/world/asia/death-sentences-in-lynching-of-afghan-woman-reportedly-overturned.html)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: livewire on July 06, 2015, 04:40:42 PM
I see they are continuing the respect and treatment of women...   

Woman accused gets death

Men who did it - get reprieve

[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/03/world/asia/death-sentences-in-lynching-of-afghan-woman-reportedly-overturned.html[/url] ([url]http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/03/world/asia/death-sentences-in-lynching-of-afghan-woman-reportedly-overturned.html[/url])



Yeah, but come on now.  She DID burn a book.  That's justification for hanging her by the neck in public, I think.

The four guys that killed her?  Innocent!!!  They were just following the law, after all.

Get used to this, people.

THIS IS SHARIA LAW.  This happened in Afghanistan, but Sharia Law is here in the United States, already.  And getting stronger by the day.


But yeah, Islam is a peaceful religion.

Bullshlt.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: FH Chandler on July 24, 2015, 10:49:03 AM
Check out all the "peace" chronicled here:

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/ (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: excelsior on January 09, 2016, 11:24:12 AM


(http://api.theweek.com/sites/default/files/01-08-beeler-cagle.jpg?resize=807x807)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: livewire on March 28, 2016, 10:55:43 PM
During the year 2015, there were 2860 Islamic attacks in 53 countries, in which 27596 people were killed and 26145 injured.


Religion of peace my ass.


http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/attacks.aspx?Yr=2015 (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/attacks.aspx?Yr=2015)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on March 29, 2016, 07:44:05 PM
During the year 2015, there were 2860 Islamic attacks in 53 countries, in which 27596 people were killed and 26145 injured.


Religion of peace my ass.


[url]http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/attacks.aspx?Yr=2015[/url] ([url]http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/attacks.aspx?Yr=2015[/url])


I'm sure that is a tiny fraction of the crimes committed by white, christian males......
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Professor H on June 12, 2016, 09:34:20 PM
I'm glad we don't have our religious people killing and maiming innocents during Christian Holidays... 

It appears to be the norm in Islam...   
 
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/national/2016/06/us_gov_t_warns_of_isis_violence_during_ramadan (http://www.bostonherald.com/news/national/2016/06/us_gov_t_warns_of_isis_violence_during_ramadan)
 http://www.inquisitr.com/3185315/muslim-men-attack-french-waitress-for-serving-alcohol-during-ramadan/ (http://www.inquisitr.com/3185315/muslim-men-attack-french-waitress-for-serving-alcohol-during-ramadan/)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/isis-bombing-sayeda-zeinab_us_575c0f31e4b0e39a28adc003 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/isis-bombing-sayeda-zeinab_us_575c0f31e4b0e39a28adc003)

It’s Not A Coincidence That The Orlando Attack Happened During Ramadan
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2016/06/12/orlando-attack-ramadan_n_10430936.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2016/06/12/orlando-attack-ramadan_n_10430936.html)

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/12/orlando-gunman-tied-to-radical-imam-released-from-prison-last-year-say-law-enforcement-sources.html (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/12/orlando-gunman-tied-to-radical-imam-released-from-prison-last-year-say-law-enforcement-sources.html)
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on June 13, 2016, 06:02:28 PM
I'm glad we don't have our religious people killing and maiming innocents during Christian Holidays... 

It appears to be the norm in Islam...   
 

Such a wonderful peaceful religion - if you ignore all the obvious stuff.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: blue2 on June 13, 2016, 06:31:45 PM
And it makes sense to most liberals that's it's necessary to kill your daughter if she runs off with a guy not of the parents choosing. And it's also clear that the woman that was raped be killed.  They obviously agree with this as they never condone it.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on June 13, 2016, 07:18:44 PM
And it makes sense to most liberals that's it's necessary to kill your daughter if she runs off with a guy not of the parents choosing. And it's also clear that the woman that was raped be killed.  They obviously agree with this as they never condone it.

But that same group of Liberals say you are declaring "War on Women" if you say that killing an unborn child is wrong....

 8*
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: SidecarFlip on June 13, 2016, 08:45:07 PM
Islam followers hate gays...
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on June 15, 2016, 06:30:32 PM
Islam followers hate gays...

Not possible.

Obama says Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: blue2 on June 15, 2016, 07:00:16 PM
When is the last time he said anything that wasn't a lie.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on June 15, 2016, 07:07:28 PM
Obama doesn't lie.

People lie about Obama for POLITICAL Reasons.

Here is a rule of thumb.

Obama is the smartest man in any room he is in.  He is a genius.  Way smarter than anyone else.
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: Monroe Native on June 17, 2016, 06:30:37 PM
I want to thank this fine Muslim for showing that he and his fellow believers aren't all that tolerant and loving.

http://www.infowars.com/islamic-speaker-admits-killing-gays-is-a-belief-held-by-moderate-muslims/ (http://www.infowars.com/islamic-speaker-admits-killing-gays-is-a-belief-held-by-moderate-muslims/)

Maybe instead of saying"Radical Muslims" we should say "Moderate Muslims?"
Title: Re: Islam, the religion of peace...
Post by: SidecarFlip on June 17, 2016, 07:44:49 PM
Looks like a Truck driver from Dearborn.........