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Categories => Nature & Environment => Topic started by: BigRedDog on August 12, 2015, 10:08:32 AM

Title: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on August 12, 2015, 10:08:32 AM
We've discussed this topic somewhat in the Summerfield Township Karst area thread...

maybe time to give it it's own thread.

Quote
STRAITS OF MACKINAC — Shepler's Mackinac Island Ferry service boats run on oil and they've done so for more than 70 years. But they won't run at all if tourism dries up because the island is engulfed in an oil spill.

That risk has led Chris Shepler, owner of the popular ferry business, to publicly call for a shutdown, or decommissioning, of the Enbridge Inc. twin Line 5 oil pipelines that traverse the straits' bottom just west of the Mackinac Bridge.

"We've got to err on the side of caution," Shepler said. "Nothing lasts forever."

That shutdown argument is gaining steam. Calls for either decommissioning, replacing or regulating the controversial Line 5 pipeline segment under the straits have grown more frequent since environmental groups began raising fears a few years ago about an ecological and economic disaster if the 62-year-old line were to rupture, dispersing oil into Lake Michigan and Lake Huron.


Much more at:

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2015/08/why_the_state_wont_shut_down_t.html#incart_related_stories (http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2015/08/why_the_state_wont_shut_down_t.html#incart_related_stories)

Here's the link to the report mentioned in the above article.  If you go to page 40 it gets right into the info on the pipeline across the straits.  Some good pictures and maps!

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/deq/M_Petroleum_Pipeline_Report_2015-10_reducedsize_494297_7.pdf (http://www.michigan.gov/documents/deq/M_Petroleum_Pipeline_Report_2015-10_reducedsize_494297_7.pdf)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on August 12, 2015, 10:36:55 AM
This appears to be where the pipeline splits into two segments.  Sitting literally on the Straits of Mackinaw!

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Mackinaw+City,+MI/@45.8403379,-84.7533503,510m/data= (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Mackinaw+City,+MI/@45.8403379,-84.7533503,510m/data=)!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x4d358b3940a9ad83:0xeac771ab20cc7a7a!6m1!1e1


It's not quite as obvious on the south side but this is the only place I see that looks right.  Sure looks like it's set up to take the two lines and put them back into one!

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Mackinaw+City,+MI/@45.7860473,-84.7747072,179m/data= (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Mackinaw+City,+MI/@45.7860473,-84.7747072,179m/data=)!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x4d358b3940a9ad83:0xeac771ab20cc7a7a!6m1!1e1
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on August 13, 2015, 08:59:54 AM
Here's a related article about shipping oil in tankers on the Great Lakes.  The idea has been scrapped...   'for now'!!!

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2015/08/refinery_drops_plans_to_ship_h.html#incart_story_package (http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2015/08/refinery_drops_plans_to_ship_h.html#incart_story_package)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on September 18, 2015, 10:06:58 AM
Interesting...

rather than working on the pipeline to actually improve safety instead they're spending the money on improving their public image.

http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2015/09/enbridge_pr_campaign_line_5.html#incart_river (http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2015/09/enbridge_pr_campaign_line_5.html#incart_river)


Seems like it's time to replace those pipes that are 67 years old with welded joints that are 67 years old...

Why not put the welded iron pipe inside a larger plastic pipe that would actually capture any leakage in the event the iron pipe or a weld were to leak.  They could easily maintain a few pounds of air pressure on the interior of the plastic pipe.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on October 13, 2015, 11:07:56 AM
More from the Free Press:

http://www.freep.com/story/money/business/michigan/2015/10/10/line5-enbridge-pipeline-straits-mackinac/73389806/ (http://www.freep.com/story/money/business/michigan/2015/10/10/line5-enbridge-pipeline-straits-mackinac/73389806/)
Title: Snyder, Schuette must act now to take oil out of Straits pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on October 16, 2015, 07:33:04 AM
Obviously an 'opinion' article:

http://www.mlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2015/10/snyder_schuette_must_act_now_t.html#incart_river_home (http://www.mlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2015/10/snyder_schuette_must_act_now_t.html#incart_river_home)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on October 17, 2015, 01:15:00 AM
Here's my suggestion.  Why not build a new pipeline and run it under the lower superstructure of the Mackinaw bridge, tying into the existing line on the Mackinaw City side and the St. Ignace side...

If you ran a new line using the bridge, it would be above ground, easily inspectable and....  The State could receive revenue from Enbridge for allowing the use of the bridge...

Seems to me to be a viable solution....  and the least expensive too.  There are already communications lines on the lower superstructure, why not a pipeline?
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: arpydave on October 17, 2015, 06:26:06 AM
That idea has some merit SCF but I'm not sure it's practical.

The thermal temperature changes from season to season would stress the pipes and you're talking viscous fluids instead of data/electrons. Add to that bridge sway in the winds and you're asking for trouble.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on October 17, 2015, 08:09:37 AM
Here's my suggestion.  Why not build a new pipeline and run it under the lower superstructure of the Mackinaw bridge, tying into the existing line on the Mackinaw City side and the St. Ignace side...

If you ran a new line using the bridge, it would be above ground, easily inspectable and....  The State could receive revenue from Enbridge for allowing the use of the bridge...

Seems to me to be a viable solution....  and the least expensive too.  There are already communications lines on the lower superstructure, why not a pipeline?

That idea has some merit SCF but I'm not sure it's practical.

The thermal temperature changes from season to season would stress the pipes and you're talking viscous fluids instead of data/electrons. Add to that bridge sway in the winds and you're asking for trouble.

I still wonder why they can't build a pipeline inside a pipeline (I'm sure 'cost' is the big factor, but they've learned cleaning up a spill isn't cheap either) at least in the 'highly sensitive' areas ??? ??? ???

I'm guess with the more modern technology they could figure out how to 'hang' it from the bridge and overcome the obstacles arpydave brings up.  They only have a five mile run to deal with those issues.  They built a pipeline clear across Alaska that was completely above ground.

Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on October 17, 2015, 05:05:38 PM
Temperature swings impacting expansion and contraction are easily dealt with, with 'U' shaped pipe sections (like you see in refinneries) and chemical plants.  The 'U' flexes with changes in expansion and contraction without impacting the line and in commercial pipe runs, the pipe is set in hangers with rollers to allow movement...  Ir's all real comonnon pipe construction stuff.

It's extremely doable and allows the state to monitor the pipeline closely....

I bet if the bridge was there when the line was laid, it would be on the superstructure of the bridge, right now.

There are many spans currently carrying pipelines.

According to the article/paper BRD posted (and I read in it's entirety, Lakehead (the predecessor of Enbridge) looked at 2 routes, one down through Wisconsin and Ilinois and across the lower peninsula of Michigan, but chose the shorter route which took it across the straits (before the bridge was built).

To me, elevating the line seems to me to be the safest alternative and the easiest to monitor plus added revenue (from rent) to the state.  Nothing has to move, Enbridge can keep it's south terminus intact and the north one as well.  They would have to lay pipe to the bridge on both ends but not a long distance.

My feeling is, at some point Line 5 will fail, not if, when....  Considering Enbridge's pizz poor record (on the Kalamazoo River), if I was Schittee, I'd be pushing the the bridge crossing.

Considering the bridge is continuously painted, t he line would be painted as well....

Everything is a plus IMO.

If you read the article and look at the pictures (of thr submerged line), it will scare you.....
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on October 17, 2015, 05:19:29 PM
I falsely assumed that the line carried product north to Canada.  It don't.  It carries product from Canada, through Superior, Wisconsin to Sarnia, Ontario via Michigan.... and only light crude and volitale liquids.  550,000 barrels a day....thats a helluva lot of product.

The big polluter (in a spill) is Dilbit which is tar sands bitumen mixed with volitale liquids for easier transmission....  What polluted the Kazoo river.

Either wat, in the article, the Coast Guard freely admits it's techinically incapable of dealing with a spill in the strats....

Line 5 is 67 years old.  Time to replace or decomission and scrap.

IMO, we are dealing with Russian Roulette, at some point in the future, all hell is gonna break loose.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on October 18, 2015, 08:21:34 AM
Quote
If you read the article and look at the pictures (of thr submerged line), it will scare you.....

First there's the simple fact of the 'age' of the pipeline itself.  I'm sure they're running lots of tests and keeping an extra close eye on that section.  But when you factor in the way they handled the spill in Kalamazoo it still is not very comforting.

What has always scared me and the Coast Guard had it listed as one of their top concerns when they were discussing the recent training operation is what happens if one of the many, many freighters navigating the straits has to drop their anchor and it drags into one of the pipes.  The article scf mentions shows the pipes pretty much laid right on top of the lake bed and then some dirt piled up over them.

Even if they were actually buried several feet in the lake bed an anchor from a freighter could still catch it. 

Does it hold or does it break ??? ??? ???

Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on October 18, 2015, 11:17:26 AM
Personally, I have no faith in Enbridge concerning Line 5 or any other pipeline for that matter.  They demonstrated that to me with the Kalamazoo River debacle.....

I'm not sure the State of Michigan has much to say about how the line is monitored or maintained.  It's Inertstate Commerce after all.

Never considered the 'dropping anchor' scenario.  That would be downright ugly.

It did state in the paper I read that Lakehead discussed how difficult it was laying the line on the lakefloor, especially the '250 foot deep canyon' part.  It went on to state that the line was laid using the best methods available......  That was 67 years ago.  'Best methods' then and best methods today are two entirely different things.

I still maintain that the best case scenario is an elevated line on the Mackinaw bridge, but then, that would cost Enbridge money and we all know that Enbridge is a 'For Profit' company.  No point in spending money to safeguard the enviroment when what is already in place works fine.....'till it busts that is....  and it will eventually, thats a given.  When is a crapshoot, if is a certainty.

Sort of like Summerfield Township and the injection well.  Trendwell has access to high pressure injection of their waste but it 'costs them money' to truck it to Moscow, Michigan.  Tremdwell is in business to make money, not spend it unnecessarily, even though it protects the enviroment by not injecting in a Karst strata.

We all need petroleum products to run our vehicles, heat our homes and live normal lives, but, at what cost....
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on October 19, 2015, 08:21:17 AM
Personally, I have no faith in Enbridge concerning Line 5 or any other pipeline for that matter.  They demonstrated that to me with the Kalamazoo River debacle.....

I'm not sure the State of Michigan has much to say about how the line is monitored or maintained.  It's Inertstate Commerce after all.

Never considered the 'dropping anchor' scenario.  That would be downright ugly.

It did state in the paper I read that Lakehead discussed how difficult it was laying the line on the lakefloor, especially the '250 foot deep canyon' part.  It went on to state that the line was laid using the best methods available......  That was 67 years ago.  'Best methods' then and best methods today are two entirely different things.

I still maintain that the best case scenario is an elevated line on the Mackinaw bridge, but then, that would cost Enbridge money and we all know that Enbridge is a 'For Profit' company.  No point in spending money to safeguard the enviroment when what is already in place works fine.....'till it busts that is....  and it will eventually, thats a given.  When is a crapshoot, if is a certainty.

Sort of like Summerfield Township and the injection well.  Trendwell has access to high pressure injection of their waste but it 'costs them money' to truck it to Moscow, Michigan.  Tremdwell is in business to make money, not spend it unnecessarily, even though it protects the enviroment by not injecting in a Karst strata.

We all need petroleum products to run our vehicles, heat our homes and live normal lives, but, at what cost....

I don't know if we're even benefiting from any of their oil.  The pipeline starts in Canada and ends in Canada...  it just takes a 'shortcut' through Michigan!  At least when it does start leaking it will foul Canadian waters too!
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on November 18, 2015, 03:35:18 PM
More on this topic:

http://www.mlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2015/11/to_prevent_great_lakes_oil_spi_1.html#incart_river_home (http://www.mlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2015/11/to_prevent_great_lakes_oil_spi_1.html#incart_river_home)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on May 24, 2016, 08:20:06 AM
Stronger guidelines with larger penalties...


http://www.13abc.com/home/headlines/Michigans-senators-upping-the-consequence-on-owners-of-oil-pipelines--to-prevent-Great-Lakes-spill-380436611.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter_13abc (http://www.13abc.com/home/headlines/Michigans-senators-upping-the-consequence-on-owners-of-oil-pipelines--to-prevent-Great-Lakes-spill-380436611.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter_13abc)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on May 24, 2016, 06:44:26 PM
I'm all about it.  Not the paltry 650 grand penalty that exists now because the line isn't considered offshore.  make it like an offshore installation with no cap on penalty..

BTW, a little update on going under the Maumee at 475.  Been watching closely almost everyday...

There is a huge directional boring rig on the south side of the river, biggest I've ever seen, with it's snout angled down maybe 20 degrees, I presume they are boring under the river bed...

On the north side, they have pipe laid in chocks in 3 not the normal pipe (with the light green cladding they have been setting), but this pipe has a black or dark brown cladding or sheath on it and the outermost line of pipe (closest to the Interstate, at the river end, has a weldment on the end with a big pull ring attached  BIG.  It's attached to a tapered weldment that ends at the pipe itself.  The pipe is (close as I can tell from the roadway_ 24-30 inches in diameter.

I surmise that they are directional boring under the river bed and when they get to the other side, they will attach the BIG ring to a even BIGGER winch and PULL THE PIPE THROUGH THE BORE.  They won't be able to make it in one pull, there isn't enough room to weld all the sections together so they will have to stop and weld, maybe 2 times.

They have been working 24/7 all last week and this week too.

A little update...
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on June 10, 2016, 09:47:49 AM
External inspections of Line 5 are underway...   a remote controlled submarine using sonar.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2016/06/09/enbridge-inspects-mackinac-pipelines-debate-swirls/85677600/ (http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2016/06/09/enbridge-inspects-mackinac-pipelines-debate-swirls/85677600/)

Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on June 11, 2016, 10:12:03 AM
And one of the biggest dangers to a pipeline anywhere is mankind...

I have trouble comprehending how he could not 'know' where the pipeline ran across his own property :-\ :-\ :-\

http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2016/06/diesel_pipeline_repaired_clean.html#incart_river_home (http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2016/06/diesel_pipeline_repaired_clean.html#incart_river_home)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on June 16, 2016, 10:32:34 AM
Congress takes action:

http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2016/06/congress_passes_bill_ratchetin.html#incart_river_index (http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2016/06/congress_passes_bill_ratchetin.html#incart_river_index)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on June 16, 2016, 11:29:32 AM
The boring under the Maumee is finished, all the equipment has left and the pipeline company is making the hookups to each end.  All that remains to be seen is the entrance excavation (surrounded by a black plastic film fence) and the exit, same thing.  Looks like the Line 5 entrance into the Straits.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on June 21, 2016, 11:20:42 AM
Rather than put $7M toward replacing the pipes themselves they're buying that much 'high tech' recovery equipment to have on hand for 'when' it does leak :-\ :-\ :-\

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/michigan/2016/06/21/enbridge-oil-straits-mackinac/86161434/ (http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/michigan/2016/06/21/enbridge-oil-straits-mackinac/86161434/)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: Professor H on June 26, 2016, 01:08:16 PM
In Traverse City saw some Enbridge vehicles driving around - and signs that say stop pipeline #5 (or something to that order)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on June 26, 2016, 09:33:57 PM
I sincerely hope I'm not alive when it ruptures....  and it will at some point.  The finger pointing and the postulation will be unbelieveable.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on June 27, 2016, 10:39:18 AM
I sincerely hope I'm not alive when it ruptures....  and it will at some point.  The finger pointing and the postulation will be unbelieveable.

Not to mention all the attorneys that will get rich from all the legal issues!!!
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: Monroe Native on June 28, 2016, 07:41:25 PM
And the Government fines that will come rolling on in!
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on July 13, 2016, 09:20:24 AM
The latest...

http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2016/07/enbridge_to_pay_35m_for_michig.html#incart_river_home (http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2016/07/enbridge_to_pay_35m_for_michig.html#incart_river_home)

I see there was a demonstration at Schuette's house in Midland last week.  They dumped chocolate syrup to simulate the oil spill.  No one arrested so one of the Tea Party legislators from Midland has introduced some new legislation making it more difficult for people to enjoy their 'right to assemble and protest'...

He's a perfect example of don't touch my part of the constitution (2nd Amendment) but excuse me while I make laws to infringe on your part of the Constitution (1st Amendment)!!!

Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on July 16, 2016, 08:45:21 PM
I don't have any faith in Shittey at all.  He's just posturing to be governor.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on July 19, 2016, 07:24:11 AM
Some time back (maybe even a few years) I was looking for a good easy to use map of all the pipelines across Monroe County.  I finally did run across this one that seems to be serving my needs pretty good. 

You need to use the 'public option' on the right:

https://www.npms.phmsa.dot.gov/ (https://www.npms.phmsa.dot.gov/)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on July 19, 2016, 01:05:24 PM
Interesting map.  I have a pipeline under my property in Mecosta Township that according to the map...goes nowhere...  I do have the warning stanchions on the property (in the woods) but they are unmarked as to product or pressure.

Must have been there a long time as there is no evidence of a right of way at all.... and there is no recorded easement on the deed or mention of a pipeline but it shows on the map.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on July 19, 2016, 01:07:20 PM
Now, my curiosity is aroused.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on July 20, 2016, 07:28:51 AM
Interesting map.  I have a pipeline under my property in Mecosta Township that according to the map...goes nowhere...  I do have the warning stanchions on the property (in the woods) but they are unmarked as to product or pressure.

Must have been there a long time as there is no evidence of a right of way at all.... and there is no recorded easement on the deed or mention of a pipeline but it shows on the map.

Cut down some of your brush and trees and pile them in a big pile right over the pipeline and set them afire...

you'll find out soon enough if there is anything in the ground or not :) :) :)


Interesting that it shows on the map but certainly sounds like it's been abandoned.  I'm sure there are plenty of inaccuracies in that map.  What I've found so far in Monroe County seems pretty close but really no way to know if they're still pumping product through all of them.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on July 20, 2016, 10:00:57 AM
Here's just a little bit of history on Enbridge and some of their prior spills...

does NOT make me feel any better about them continuing the use of a pipeline as old as Line 5 >:( >:( >:(

http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2016/07/major_announcement_pending_on.html (http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2016/07/major_announcement_pending_on.html)
Title: Schuette: Enbridge violating Straits of Mackinac pipeline agreement
Post by: BigRedDog on August 05, 2016, 11:07:18 AM
Well, sounds like Schuette got this one right...

but even a watch that is broken will be right twice a day 8) 8) 8)

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2016/08/03/ag-bill-schuette-enbridge-violating-straits-pipeline-easement/88039662/ (http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2016/08/03/ag-bill-schuette-enbridge-violating-straits-pipeline-easement/88039662/)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on August 05, 2016, 02:17:00 PM
Like I maintain, it's not IF, it's WHEN
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on August 05, 2016, 02:19:29 PM
23 million gallons of product daily is a helluva lot of pollution...  Could you imagine (I don't want to) if the line busted when the straits were frozen over?  Not if, it's when...
Title: New DEQ director says calls to shut down Enbridge Line 5 are premature
Post by: BigRedDog on August 14, 2016, 10:38:25 AM
Sounds like we've got the fox watching the henhouse now :o :o :o

http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2016/08/shut_down_line_5_calls_are_pre.html#incart_river_home (http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2016/08/shut_down_line_5_calls_are_pre.html#incart_river_home)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: blue2 on August 14, 2016, 04:30:43 PM
Just because she was a oil/gas libbiyst for BP she says that won't affect the way she does her job.  We believe you.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on August 14, 2016, 09:38:20 PM
Isn't that one of the 4 greatest lies...  I'm from the government and I'm here to help you'............ ;D

Good pick....Rick
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on August 15, 2016, 09:30:55 AM
Isn't that one of the 4 greatest lies...  I'm from the government and I'm here to help you'............ ;D

Good pick....Rick

I did a quick Google search to see if I could find a tee shirt with 'good pick rick' on it...

this photo came up on the very first page ;D ;D ;D
(https://wcmu.org/news/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/rick-snyder-mugjpg-446cf7790e6a2ea6.jpg)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on August 24, 2016, 09:49:33 AM
I wonder what the final bill was to mitigate this 'spill'...

http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2016/08/oil_spill_in_farm_field_all_cl.html#incart_river_home (http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2016/08/oil_spill_in_farm_field_all_cl.html#incart_river_home)

and I wonder who will end up paying the bill?

There aren't enough real details in this story to make sense of what the real cause was.

Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on August 24, 2016, 12:12:09 PM
I've always felt it was inattentiveness on the part of the operators.  You don't pump that much product with an obvious pressure drop over a period of time without taking note of it.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: Monroe Native on August 24, 2016, 02:33:47 PM
I've always felt it was inattentiveness on the part of the operators.  You don't pump that much product with an obvious pressure drop over a period of time without taking note of it.

You would think.

It is bad practice pumping your product out into nature where it is hard to sell.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on August 24, 2016, 06:10:16 PM
You would think.

It is bad practice pumping your product out into nature where it is hard to sell.

Wasn't hard to sell really, they had to buy it back and then some....

The whole thing reeks of antiquated equipment and lax safeguards.  Modern up to date pipelines have automatic pressure sensing so when a pressure drop is detected, the line shuts down at the closest monitoring station, it don't keep spewing product for hours on end.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on August 25, 2016, 09:55:16 AM
Wasn't hard to sell really, they had to buy it back and then some....

The whole thing reeks of antiquated equipment and lax safeguards.  Modern up to date pipelines have automatic pressure sensing so when a pressure drop is detected, the line shuts down at the closest monitoring station, it don't keep spewing product for hours on end.

The  technology and the equipment are both available...  just a matter of coughing up the $$$...

got to spend money to make (or in this case 'save') money! 

I wish there was more info in the original article...   I'm curious what the farmer was using to get deep enough to hit the pipe in the first place.

Sometimes (especially in an area with lots of 'blow' sand) the 'cover' dirt has slowly eroded over the years and suddenly the pipes aren't as deep in the ground as they were originally (assuming nobody fudged the numbers back when they were originally put in the ground).

I was at a 10 acre parcel out on Luly road in Jackman many years ago when the Panhandle Eastern tech came out to 'locate' the actual location of the 3 pipelines that cross the property.  This was before we had Google maps where you can pretty well see where they are quite often. 

This was all in 'blow' sand...   He had a 5' probe and was explaining that the pipes should be down about 48".  Down in the low spot they were all at about 48" but as we moved up the hill (slight rise more than a real hill) they pipes got shallower and shallower.  We found one that was only down about 16"...   easily within striking distance in certain situations!!!

Most of these lines have just been put in the ground and forgotten about for 50-60-70+ years...

if they spring a leak they fix it and hope the fine isn't too high...   as long as they keep 'lobbying' their favorite legislator$ the fines do stay pretty low...

way cheaper to pay the fine than it would be to actually do preventive maintenance >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on August 25, 2016, 10:26:09 AM
I know someone who was digging in the side yard and hit a pipeline that was less than a foot underground, less than 12"......  Unmarked and shallow....  (was Panhandle Eastern btw).
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on August 25, 2016, 10:27:43 AM
These old lines are time bombs waiting to explode, rupture or worse...  polluting the ground or water...
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on August 25, 2016, 11:06:35 AM
I know someone who was digging in the side yard and hit a pipeline that was less than a foot underground, less than 12"......  Unmarked and shallow....  (was Panhandle Eastern btw).

They tend to be the worst I run into around here on a regular basis :( :( :(
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: Monroe Native on August 25, 2016, 06:55:16 PM
I was in Southeastern Ohio when my cousins neighbor decided that he needed a pond in his cow pasture.

He is a can do kind of guy, unhindered by the thought process, so he immediately proceeded to get the dozer and head to where the thought the pond needed to be, and he started to dig himself a hole.

About the time he had removed 2 or 3 feet of top soil there was a tremendous bang, and it appeared he hit himself a big rock.  He banged it a few more times, but the darn thing simply wouldn't budge. 

They were scratching their heads, thinking about getting explosives or a back hoe, and that was when the Tenneco Helicopter showed up, with an emergency crew to find out what the big vibration was that they picked up in the Natural Gas Pipeline.  It wasn't long after that when the ground crews showed up - and they took over his pasture for the rest of the summer, and I think he even got threatened with violating an easement, and the consequences that goes along with that if he even raised a fuss about that.

It was very entertaining.  Glad it didn't rupture.

Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on September 15, 2016, 08:52:19 PM
This is an interesting and ongoing scenario down in Alabama. 

We hear all the time how these pipelines are so safe because they have sensors that will shut them off in the event of a leak...

the theory is they will shut down before thy pump any major amount of product out onto the ground or into a stream or river or whatever...

apparently that didn't happen in this case!

252,000 gallons of gasoline leaked before it was discovered and shut down...

that is a lot of 'product' to lose!!!

A lot more difficult to clean up gasoline than it is crude oil due to safety concerns!

http://www.wtol.com/story/33093665/colonial-pipeline-252000-gallons-of-gasoline-have-leaked-in-shelby-county (http://www.wtol.com/story/33093665/colonial-pipeline-252000-gallons-of-gasoline-have-leaked-in-shelby-county)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on September 15, 2016, 09:30:59 PM
Sounds like Kalamazoo...  I see there is a big stinko over the Waterville gas compressor station too.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on September 15, 2016, 09:32:14 PM
one thing about gasoline, it will vaporize but one spark and it's 'off to the races'...
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on September 16, 2016, 09:12:10 AM
I went back 'after' I posted and read the article and all the attachments...

it still wasn't the pipeline's equipment or staff that found the leak or shut it down automatically.

It was someone walking in the area and smelled gasoline...

at least they didn't light up a cigarette to wait for responders to get to the scene!!!
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on September 16, 2016, 03:47:14 PM
I read that as well.  You'd think that the pressure monitoring devices would have recorded a pressure drop and alerted employees....  If they worked....  That is Federal law that the monitoring devices are installed...  Working is another story...

Just like Kazoo...  pump it to nowehere....

When the NG like ruptured out here some years back, the automatic shutdown did work, but not before the fire turned the ground to glass.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on September 17, 2016, 11:39:24 AM
I read that as well.  You'd think that the pressure monitoring devices would have recorded a pressure drop and alerted employees....  If they worked....  That is Federal law that the monitoring devices are installed...  Working is another story...

Just like Kazoo...  pump it to nowehere....

When the NG like ruptured out here some years back, the automatic shutdown did work, but not before the fire turned the ground to glass.



Quote
The major pipeline, one pipe of which has been severed, provides gasoline for an estimated 50 million people on the East Coast each day, according to company estimates. The cause of the leak has yet to be determined, according to the company's most recent statement.


http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/16/investing/gasoline-prices-shortage-pipeline-leak/ (http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/16/investing/gasoline-prices-shortage-pipeline-leak/)

This article is really about how gasoline prices are already jumping along the east coast but I did catch this part about the pipe being 'severed'...

my first thought is just what does it take to 'sever' a pipe?

I realize that with the pipe completely severed it wouldn't take long for several thousand gallons of product to escape but on the other hand it should have caused an absolutely instantaneous drop to 'zero' on the downstream pressure sensors which should have triggered an almost instantaneous complete shut down!!!

Something happened here that Colonial is not talking about so far...

will take some time for them to 'whitewash' the incident I'm sure :o :o :o
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on September 17, 2016, 03:23:29 PM
I'd say it's gonna take a lot of whitewash....Is Colonial a sub of Enbridge?  Besides, how does one 'sever' a pipeline?... and of course, no one was at the 'off ' switch either.  Probably playing Euchre...

Dam lucky no campers or motor vehicles nearby.  Can you imagine what kind of explosion and firestorm 250,000 gallons of weasel pee would make????

I cannot wait for Line 5 to 'sever'.  It will at some point and even if it gets shut off immediately, all the product in the line will still leak into the Straits.  Just because you turn it off (even at both ends) don't do anything for what the line contains and, it's pressurized to boot.

Great thought isn't it?  When it happens, there will be much finger pointing and political postulation, all at the enviromental expense of the Straits themselves and the tourism and the fish and the trees and wildlife...

Enbridge puts me in mind of Hillary Clinton.  Lies. lies and more lies.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on September 17, 2016, 03:28:36 PM
The oil lobby in Lansing is very strong (as in whitewashing our elected  leaders with money and favors) that was proven to Summerfield Township with Trendwell and that fiasco.

Neither Lansing or the oil lobbyists give a dam about the citizens or the enviroment, it's all about money, big money.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on September 20, 2016, 10:58:49 AM
I'd say it's gonna take a lot of whitewash....Is Colonial a sub of Enbridge?  Besides, how does one 'sever' a pipeline?... and of course, no one was at the 'off ' switch either.  Probably playing Euchre...

Dam lucky no campers or motor vehicles nearby.  Can you imagine what kind of explosion and firestorm 250,000 gallons of weasel pee would make????

I cannot wait for Line 5 to 'sever'.  It will at some point and even if it gets shut off immediately, all the product in the line will still leak into the Straits.  Just because you turn it off (even at both ends) don't do anything for what the line contains and, it's pressurized to boot.

Great thought isn't it?  When it happens, there will be much finger pointing and political postulation, all at the enviromental expense of the Straits themselves and the tourism and the fish and the trees and wildlife...

Enbridge puts me in mind of Hillary Clinton.  Lies. lies and more lies.


Do they play Euchre in Alabama?

And now they're upping the estimation on the size of the spill:

Quote
Al.com notes that the same statement quietly increased the estimated amount of oil thought to have been spilled. Previous reports had the amount at 6,000 barrels, which is equal to about 252,000 gallons, according to

Al.com. But the news site notes that Colonial's most recent statement puts that estimate closer to 8,000 barrels, or 336,000 gallons.


http://newsmasterapp.com/article/i6331653087559680515?app_id=1106 (http://newsmasterapp.com/article/i6331653087559680515?app_id=1106)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on September 20, 2016, 02:01:29 PM
Good ole boys all play Euchre... ;D

I don't believe Colonial knows how much actually spilled and never will.  Evidence of that is it wasn't shut off.  Just kept pumping away....
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on September 20, 2016, 02:04:41 PM
Leaks and failures are gonna happen no matter what.  The issue is, who is monitoring the lines..  We know no one at Enbridge...  Colonial?  Anyone's guess.
Title: Key pieces still absent from Mackinac straits oil spill cleanup readiness
Post by: BigRedDog on October 18, 2016, 09:48:22 AM
Sure doesn't make me feel any better if they have a leak tomorrow...

or in the middle of this winter! 

http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2016/10/line_5_phmsa_cheboygan.html#incart_gallery (http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2016/10/line_5_phmsa_cheboygan.html#incart_gallery)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on October 21, 2016, 09:56:45 AM
Still working on the anchors they were 'talking about' months ago...

http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2016/10/line_5_anchors_could_be_instal.html (http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2016/10/line_5_anchors_could_be_instal.html)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on October 21, 2016, 12:20:55 PM
Another reason Walberg needs to be voted out.  Walberg stonewalls any attempt to regulate.  Keep in mind, he's in bed with big oil in Michigan.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: Monroe Native on October 30, 2016, 02:24:30 PM
I kind of like law makers that don't want to regulate the shite out of everything.

His opponent also seems to be real comfortable with telling me what type of healthcare I need to have too.

I don't like that.

So Walberg doesn't want the Govt telling what to do, She does.

I guess I'll go for Walberg on this one.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on October 31, 2016, 01:20:39 PM
I kind of like law makers that don't want to regulate the shite out of everything.

His opponent also seems to be real comfortable with telling me what type of healthcare I need to have too.

I don't like that.

So Walberg doesn't want the Govt telling what to do, She does.

I guess I'll go for Walberg on this one.

I don't like her liberalass views either but it's time for some new blood.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on October 31, 2016, 01:22:47 PM
healthcare can will be dealt with however, a candidate in bed with big oil and injection wells in Karst can and will impact you very directly.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: Tea Party Patriot on October 31, 2016, 02:11:57 PM
I guess I'll go for Walberg on this one.
You didn't need to tell us this we already know your a 100% republican from your other 18000 posts.TRUMP 2016!
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: Monroe Native on October 31, 2016, 08:35:49 PM
You didn't need to tell us this we already know your a 100% republican from your other 18000 posts.TRUMP 2016!

Okay Fry.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on November 01, 2016, 07:21:29 PM
I'd say it's gonna take a lot of whitewash....Is Colonial a sub of Enbridge?  Besides, how does one 'sever' a pipeline?... and of course, no one was at the 'off ' switch either.  Probably playing Euchre...

Dam lucky no campers or motor vehicles nearby.  Can you imagine what kind of explosion and firestorm 250,000 gallons of weasel pee would make????

I cannot wait for Line 5 to 'sever'.  It will at some point and even if it gets shut off immediately, all the product in the line will still leak into the Straits.  Just because you turn it off (even at both ends) don't do anything for what the line contains and, it's pressurized to boot.

Great thought isn't it?  When it happens, there will be much finger pointing and political postulation, all at the enviromental expense of the Straits themselves and the tourism and the fish and the trees and wildlife...

Enbridge puts me in mind of Hillary Clinton.  Lies. lies and more lies.


Not sure yet how it happened the first time...

but now it happened a 2nd time within just a few miles!!!

And it was their own maintenance crew that hit it!!!

Maybe they should have been playing Euchre somewhere...

less damage to the pipeline :) :) :)

http://www.wsj.com/articles/gas-diesel-prices-spike-following-alabama-pipeline-fire-1478010889 (http://www.wsj.com/articles/gas-diesel-prices-spike-following-alabama-pipeline-fire-1478010889)

And this time it's burning!!!

(https://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/BN-QO348_1102pi_M_20161101102849.jpg)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on June 03, 2017, 11:12:45 AM
Some updated info on the situation with 'Line 5':

http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/04/enbridge_line_5_spill_history.html (http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/04/enbridge_line_5_spill_history.html)

http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/06/line_5_unsupported_spans.html (http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/06/line_5_unsupported_spans.html)

Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on June 03, 2017, 09:38:54 PM
By Enbridge's own account no less (I read it elsewhere, I think in the Blade).

Only a matter of time before the Straits become a gooey mess and Enbridge declares bankruptcy.

and.........Lansing continues to fiddle and postulate.  But of course they are well greased with oil money as well.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on June 09, 2017, 06:16:54 PM
I thought I heard they were supposed to be pressure testing Line 5 (at least the section under the straits) today or tomorrow.  First time it's been done since the line was installed back in the early 50s!!!

Sounds like Enbridge has other problems too:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-09/enbridge-payout-cash-cow-withers-with-rebound-seen-long-way-off (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-09/enbridge-payout-cash-cow-withers-with-rebound-seen-long-way-off)
Title: State terminates independent contractor analyzing Line 5 risks
Post by: BigRedDog on June 22, 2017, 07:29:36 AM
http://www.uppermichiganssource.com/content/news/State-terminates-independent-contractor-analyzing-Line-5-risks-429898543.html (http://www.uppermichiganssource.com/content/news/State-terminates-independent-contractor-analyzing-Line-5-risks-429898543.html)

Title: Enbridge wants to install 22 anchors on Line 5
Post by: BigRedDog on June 25, 2017, 08:35:21 AM
Sounds like these should have been installed many years ago...

if Enbridge will 'cheat' on these then what else are they not telling the whole truth about ??? ??? ???

http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/06/enbridge_wants_to_install_22_a.html#incart_river_home (http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/06/enbridge_wants_to_install_22_a.html#incart_river_home)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on June 25, 2017, 06:17:22 PM
Like I said, only a matter of time before the Straits turn into a black gooey mess and Enbridge will conveniently declare bankruptcy and leave the State and Federal government to deal with it.

Like all big business (especially oil related ones), I have no faith in them doing anything right because it's profit over anything else.

Enbridge has a dismal track record.

Line 5 should be shut down, the pipes cleaned of product and both ends capped off. or removed from the lake floor and sold for scrap.

I still say that the equitable solution would be to install a pipeline suspended from the Bridge, in plain sight under the superstructure and let Enbridge pay the State for rental of the platform.  That way visual inspections would be relatively easy and the crew that works painting the bridge (a full time crew does that) can also paint the pipeline.

I understand Line 5 was installed prior to the bridge but that seems to me to be the answer.  Everybody wins and the State get rent money which they can piss away like they do everything else. ;D
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on June 28, 2017, 10:04:10 AM
I've tried to keep politics out of this thread but this article seems to indicate there are opponents on both side of the political spectrum that are opposed to continued use of Line 5.

http://www.bridgemi.com/public-sector/democrats-and-republicans-agree-shut-down-enbridge-line-5 (http://www.bridgemi.com/public-sector/democrats-and-republicans-agree-shut-down-enbridge-line-5)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on June 28, 2017, 10:11:55 AM
Like I said, only a matter of time before the Straits turn into a black gooey mess and Enbridge will conveniently declare bankruptcy and leave the State and Federal government to deal with it.

Like all big business (especially oil related ones), I have no faith in them doing anything right because it's profit over anything else.

Enbridge has a dismal track record.

Line 5 should be shut down, the pipes cleaned of product and both ends capped off. or removed from the lake floor and sold for scrap.

I still say that the equitable solution would be to install a pipeline suspended from the Bridge, in plain sight under the superstructure and let Enbridge pay the State for rental of the platform.  That way visual inspections would be relatively easy and the crew that works painting the bridge (a full time crew does that) can also paint the pipeline.

I understand Line 5 was installed prior to the bridge but that seems to me to be the answer.  Everybody wins and the State get rent money which they can piss away like they do everything else. ;D


Here's a recent article that shows just how quick and easy it is to just 'walk away' under current bankruptcy laws...

reopen tomorrow under a 'new' corporation and continue with business as usual...

leaving all of the cleanup to the taxpayers >:( >:( >:(

This is about Velsicol Chemical up in the St. Louis, MI area.  They made cattle feed and flame retardant chemicals in the same plant and weren't very careful about keeping them apart. 

To this day most adults in Michigan have a heightened level of their fire retardant in our blood :o :o :o

But don't worry...   it's a 'Super Fund' site now...

it will all get cleaned up (eventually) with 'free' federal government dollars!!!

http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/06/epa_velsicol_97m.html (http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/06/epa_velsicol_97m.html)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on June 28, 2017, 09:47:25 PM
Lets not forget about DuPont in Midland either.  The main reason I don't like Schutte.  He's a DuPont guy.

The cattle feed story is a gruesome one.  Mass alaughter, sick people and the government (taxpayer) gets the bill.

Enbridge will do the same.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on June 28, 2017, 10:02:31 PM
Mark my words...  In our lifetime BRD (and we aren't going to live that much longer). Line 5 is going to fail. the straights will get turned into a black gooey mess and Enbridge will go tits up.

Just imagine driving across the 'Mighty Mack' and looking down at an oily slick, far as you can see...  It's going to happen unless the lame arse politicians get off the collective lazy duffs and stop the flow.

What a way to wipe out a great natural resource, all for the almighty buck.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on June 30, 2017, 08:47:33 AM
Interesting that the state has already done a study on the costs to remove the pipeline from the bottom of the straits!!!

$200M

http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/06/removing_enbridge_line_5_from.html#incart_river_home (http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/06/removing_enbridge_line_5_from.html#incart_river_home)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on June 30, 2017, 09:37:08 AM
Lansing pizzes away at least that much in programs that don't work anyway like the new State Office 'Randy Richardville' building for instance.

200 million is a drop in the bucket compared to the impact on the ecosystem when it fails.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on June 30, 2017, 12:43:41 PM
Now I see even our AG (aspiring governor) Bill Schuette wants to shut down Line 5!

http://www.9and10news.com/story/35784059/schuette-calls-for-line-5-shutdown-nomi-water-advocacy-groups-discuss-his-statement (http://www.9and10news.com/story/35784059/schuette-calls-for-line-5-shutdown-nomi-water-advocacy-groups-discuss-his-statement)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on June 30, 2017, 01:45:50 PM
Aspiring or perspiring?  Maybe Schitty should be inline with shutting down DuPont in Midland too.  I'd never voth for that tool no matter what he says.  He's a talking head and nothing else.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on July 01, 2017, 08:39:44 AM
Aspiring or perspiring?  Maybe Schitty should be inline with shutting down DuPont in Midland too.  I'd never voth for that tool no matter what he says.  He's a talking head and nothing else.

I doubt he's ever perspired very much...   

I don't know a lot about his finances other than his mother had some close ties to the Dow Chemical family in Midland.  I can't verify all of the information in this article but I do know several parts of it are fact so would guess most of it is factual.

Quote
Schuette, who has an estimated net worth of about $13 million, has never been poor. He grew up in Midland, where his mother helped the family bottom line by managing to marry, in turn, not one, but two top Dow Chemical executives.

Presumably her son could have had a career there, but from the start, he was more intrigued by Nixon than napalm. Now 62, Schuette's been running for every office he could since he was 18, when he was elected a Republican precinct delegate.

Above quote from: 

https://www.metrotimes.com/detroit/politics-and-prejudices-scary-bill-schuette/Content?oid=2376694 (https://www.metrotimes.com/detroit/politics-and-prejudices-scary-bill-schuette/Content?oid=2376694)

I never 'rubbed shoulders' with him although he did live a couple of miles from us for a few years before we moved down here.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on July 01, 2017, 01:52:47 PM
Couple miles was close enough.  Any closer and you'd smell the stink.  Cannot you tell I really like the tool?
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on July 01, 2017, 01:54:17 PM
Schutte and Walberg would make good bedfellows.  Both are two faced liars who's only interests are self serving.

Guess that makes a good politician.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on July 05, 2017, 10:06:32 AM
An article from the Sarnia (that's in Canada for those that may not know) newspaper on Line 5 from their view:

http://www.theobserver.ca/2017/07/04/michigan-considering-future-of-oil-and-gas-pipeline (http://www.theobserver.ca/2017/07/04/michigan-considering-future-of-oil-and-gas-pipeline)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: The Fuzz on July 05, 2017, 02:11:13 PM
These are probably infrastructure projects that should be made.......not sure it is the government or private business should do it, but it should come immediately after his first big project in the form of a wall.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on July 06, 2017, 10:01:32 AM
http://www.wtol.com/story/35819673/public-meetings-begin-on-underwater-oil-pipeline-options (http://www.wtol.com/story/35819673/public-meetings-begin-on-underwater-oil-pipeline-options)

There are some public meetings being held and there is a link in the story above where anyone can watch the meetings live.  Isn't modern technology wonderful 8) 8) 8)
Title: Line 5 is bent and deformed where Enbridge wants to anchor it
Post by: BigRedDog on July 23, 2017, 10:43:06 PM
A retired engineer from Dow Chemical has a few not so nice things to say about the pipeline!



http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/07/line_5_bends_ovals.html (http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/07/line_5_bends_ovals.html)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on July 23, 2017, 11:08:40 PM
I posted it elsewhere but Energy Transfer Partners has their tit in the wringer in Ohio over violations concerning their building of the Rover pipeline..  Same people that are hauling piper out of the Port of Monroe.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on July 23, 2017, 11:17:27 PM
An article from the Sarnia (that's in Canada for those that may not know) newspaper on Line 5 from their view:

[url]http://www.theobserver.ca/2017/07/04/michigan-considering-future-of-oil-and-gas-pipeline[/url] ([url]http://www.theobserver.ca/2017/07/04/michigan-considering-future-of-oil-and-gas-pipeline[/url])


Pizz on the Canadians and they are right, they have no say.  When line 5 pukes, it won't impact them at all.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on July 23, 2017, 11:42:27 PM
Pretty apparent to me that they political talking heads will postulate themselves into a stick gooey mess that the taxpayers will have to pay for.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on July 24, 2017, 07:35:39 PM
And then there are those people that feel profits are more important than clean water :( :( :(

http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/07/line_5_mich_business_support.html#incart_river_home (http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/07/line_5_mich_business_support.html#incart_river_home)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on July 25, 2017, 10:19:32 PM
And then there are those people that feel profits are more important than clean water :( :( :(

[url]http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/07/line_5_mich_business_support.html#incart_river_home[/url] ([url]http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/07/line_5_mich_business_support.html#incart_river_home[/url])


Interesting, in as much as the product the lines carry, goes to Canada, not Michigan.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on August 10, 2017, 07:11:08 PM
More from Mlive on Line 5:

http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/08/deq_dnr_mae_line_5.html#incart_river_home (http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/08/deq_dnr_mae_line_5.html#incart_river_home)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on August 11, 2017, 02:03:22 PM
Everyday is one day closer to failure.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on August 14, 2017, 08:24:00 AM
Article on replacing some 'old' natural gas pipeline in Michigan...   

similar age as Line 5 and it's not running under the straits!!!
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on August 14, 2017, 09:16:47 PM
Probably a heck of a lot cheaper to replace.....
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on August 14, 2017, 09:51:55 PM
I was in a hurry and forgot to post the link to the article:

http://www.abc12.com/content/news/Saginaw-Trail-pipeline-replacement-project-is-underway-439503223.html (http://www.abc12.com/content/news/Saginaw-Trail-pipeline-replacement-project-is-underway-439503223.html)


Probably a heck of a lot cheaper to replace.....


No doubt!!!
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on August 15, 2017, 02:52:09 PM
Line 5 is at least as old, has been exposed to more stress than the buried line and is 'ovalized' in spots according to EnBridge.  It will bust..no doubt, just when is the question.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on September 08, 2017, 10:29:36 AM
We spent the last week in the 'Land of Line 5' and I actually took some time to do a little exploring once we were back at the straits.  It's very easy to spot the right of way as you're driving on any of the 'north-south' roads west of St Ignace.  With just a little navigation also easy to find the troubled northern straits pump station. 

(http://www.respectmyplanet.org/publications/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/cover_shot.png)

It's a little longer drive on the south side of the straits to find the location where the twin pipes leave the ever beautiful water of the straits.

(http://www.respectmyplanet.org/publications/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Mackinac-Pipeline3p.png)

The above images are from:  http://www.respectmyplanet.org/publications/michigan/enbridge-line-5-crude-oil-leak-north-straits-pump-station-near-lake-michigan-shoreline (http://www.respectmyplanet.org/publications/michigan/enbridge-line-5-crude-oil-leak-north-straits-pump-station-near-lake-michigan-shoreline)

which also has some very informative writings.

On Monday I did the bridge walk and on the south (finish) end there were various groups with some political ties to various agendas.  Obviously, the anti Line 5 folks were well represented.  No one being pushy but if you took the time to ask questions they were more than happy to discuss the situation.  I've done enough research and posted enough articles here that I felt comfortable talking with various individuals.  I did not hear one work that I felt was slanderous.  Also interesting that Enbridge did NOT have a booth (at least not that I saw) presenting their side of the issue.  I assume they do that by writing checks to lobbyists :( :( :(

When I played 'connect the dots' with the departure and arrival points on the north and south beaches it was pretty obvious that there was a large barge with some accompanying  work boats all located in an area that appeared to be over the pipe lines.  The barge even had a crane on board with the boom raised and appeared to be in a lifting mode. 

I got to thinking that the barge was too big to just 'dock' anywhere along the straits so either Enbridge or some contractor must have some facility to support their ongoing and unknown (at least to me at that point) work.  We had already driven across the bridge and didn't want to go back just looking for a probably empty dock so we concentrated on the Mackinaw City area.  The largest ship 'docked' there is our old friend the original ice breaker Mackinaw which is moored just north of the Michigan DNR public recreation marina.  The city also has a nice little fishing pier and NOAA has a weather station there too.  And then right next to the weather station is a very nondescript area that is not only completely fenced in but also has a guard conspicuously in place at the closed gate to the facility.  Inside the fence was a nice selection of relatively new pickups...  maybe 2 dozen of them and then near the front gate in the DNR parking lot were several more.  Appeared to be the crew on the barge was my best guess.  Looking at vehicles they are most likely well paid and they travel a lot. 

I approached the guard and asked if it was 'ok' if I took some photos (I already knew the legal answer but was curious as to what his reply would be).  He replied that he obviously couldn't stop me from taking photos but then asked 'why' I would to take photos of an old boat dock.   He'd been square with me so I shot straight back at me that I had a 'hunch' that this was where the boats working on the Enbridge pipes were docking.  He got a very curious smile on his face and just said as long as I didn't try to enter beyond the fence or block any vehicles entering or leaving then I could do as I wanted.  When I have some time I'll see if I can find who actually owns that boat dock.

Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on September 08, 2017, 11:22:12 AM
This is the 'boat docking' area that I located...   it's the triangle shaped parcel surrounded by water:

https://www.google.com/maps/search/3117+Mingo,+Mackinaw+City,+MI+49701/@45.778086,-84.7239324,603m/data= (https://www.google.com/maps/search/3117+Mingo,+Mackinaw+City,+MI+49701/@45.778086,-84.7239324,603m/data=)!3m1!1e3

I thought the NOAA weather station looked very new and I don't see it on this photo. 

Here's the north shore pumping station.  Go to the photo view and you can see the clear cut pipeline rights of way through the woods:

https://www.google.com/maps/search/3117+Mingo,+Mackinaw+City,+MI+49701/@45.8410842,-84.7557945,1135m/data= (https://www.google.com/maps/search/3117+Mingo,+Mackinaw+City,+MI+49701/@45.8410842,-84.7557945,1135m/data=)!3m1!1e3



Interesting that there is also a natural gas pipe line that crosses between the bridge and the Enbridge line and you hear very little about it...   natural gas does't leave a nasty residue when it leaks like crude oil does ;) ;) ;)

https://www.google.com/maps/search/3117+Mingo,+Mackinaw+City,+MI+49701/@45.8477915,-84.7372154,253m/data= (https://www.google.com/maps/search/3117+Mingo,+Mackinaw+City,+MI+49701/@45.8477915,-84.7372154,253m/data=)!3m1!1e3

Here is a map link to the Enbridge facility on the south shore.  It's even labeled Enbridge.

https://www.google.com/maps/search/3117+Mingo,+Mackinaw+City,+MI+49701/@45.7855743,-84.7761683,1714m/data= (https://www.google.com/maps/search/3117+Mingo,+Mackinaw+City,+MI+49701/@45.7855743,-84.7761683,1714m/data=)!3m1!1e3
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on September 08, 2017, 09:27:11 PM
You are being pretty nosy BRD..... ;D

I read in the Adrian paper (never showed up in the MN) that Enbridge reports that sections of coating are missing on the line, which one, I'm not sure.

Anyway, another day closes closer to the eventual failure of the lines.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: Maverick on September 08, 2017, 11:49:01 PM
It was in the Monroe paper. I wondered why you hadn't commented till today.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on September 09, 2017, 09:04:03 AM
You are being pretty nosy BRD..... ;D

I read in the Adrian paper (never showed up in the MN) that Enbridge reports that sections of coating are missing on the line, which one, I'm not sure.

Anyway, another day closes closer to the eventual failure of the lines.

I figured we were there so I might as well do some snooping!

I will say that at this point there appears to be a fury of activity going on but since it's all 'under' the straits it's not easy to verify. 

And at least I got another nice closeup view of the 'real' Mackinaw Ice Breaker...   always been my favorite ship on the Great Lakes.  We went to do the on board 'farewell' tour when it was in Toledo several years ago.  Very fitting that it is sitting so close to the straits these days. 
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on September 09, 2017, 05:57:07 PM
Could be the 'gooey' straits at anytime.  I just hope that when it (line 5 pukes), it's in the summer and not when the straits are iced over.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on September 18, 2017, 01:07:35 PM
I haven't had time to read much local news but I do have a Google alert set for Line 5 info and those get sent to my email.  Here's thew basics of what I've seen in the last week or so!!!

Apparently Enbridge has been a little less than 100% honest with their reporting on their own analysis.  Imagine that!

http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/09/line_5_coating_inspection.html (http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/09/line_5_coating_inspection.html)

Little doubt what the massive underwater project was that my wife and witnessed going on in the straits the week of Labor Day!!!  I'm sure they're hurrying so they can claim it's all hunky dory again >:( >:( >:(

My Comcast is going on and off...   someone must be playing with it...   Duke Energy is here now repairing some of the above ground power lines.  Unfortunately everything then goes underground and anyone with an underground issue is being told it may be 'several' weeks before anyone will be able to even look at the problem!

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2017/09/15/detection-larger-thtest-enbridge-straits-mackinac-oil-pipelines-missing-coating-riles-state-official/670016001/ (http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2017/09/15/detection-larger-thtest-enbridge-straits-mackinac-oil-pipelines-missing-coating-riles-state-official/670016001/)

This one is an audio from Michigan Radio.  I haven't had time to listen to it yet.  I know they can get a bit radical at times but they're also usually pretty good at reporting the facts.  I guess anyone can have an opinion on the topic.

http://michiganradio.org/post/just-shut-line-5-down (http://michiganradio.org/post/just-shut-line-5-down)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on September 18, 2017, 05:09:33 PM
I would never expect Enbbridge to be honest and forthright.  Not in their makeup.  It's an oil company after all.  Profit first, safety second, public welfare, dead last...

One day closer to rupturing...  I bet when it does, the people who are supposed to monitor it will be asleep at the switch (valve), just like the Kalamazoo River incident.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: Monroe Native on September 18, 2017, 07:40:23 PM
I would never expect Enbbridge to be honest and forthright.  Not in their makeup.  It's an oil company after all.  Profit first, safety second, public welfare, dead last...

One day closer to rupturing...  I bet when it does, the people who are supposed to monitor it will be asleep at the switch (valve), just like the Kalamazoo River incident.

I like oil.

It makes the cars run.

It heats houses.

I'm glad companies supply it to us.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on September 19, 2017, 01:06:47 PM
I like oil.

It makes the cars run.

It heats houses.

I'm glad companies supply it to us.

I do too but that don't excuse being honest and safe about supplying it.  Enbridge is neither and has proven that before.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: Monroe Native on September 19, 2017, 03:19:46 PM
I do too but that don't excuse being honest and safe about supplying it.  Enbridge is neither and has proven that before.

Shite happens Flip.

I'm sure you've had plenty of truck drivers tell that to you?

Some of the time it was probably true?
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: blue2 on September 19, 2017, 03:58:07 PM
Speaking of oil. Isn't this ridiculous??

http://www.13abc.com/content/news/Toledo-Refining-says-government-mandate-could-cost-jobs--445446413.html (http://www.13abc.com/content/news/Toledo-Refining-says-government-mandate-could-cost-jobs--445446413.html)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: Monroe Native on September 19, 2017, 05:48:17 PM
Speaking of oil. Isn't this ridiculous??

[url]http://www.13abc.com/content/news/Toledo-Refining-says-government-mandate-could-cost-jobs--445446413.html[/url] ([url]http://www.13abc.com/content/news/Toledo-Refining-says-government-mandate-could-cost-jobs--445446413.html[/url])


What is ridiculous is lobbyists for the farmers have had regulators and lawmakers pass stupid laws and regulations that says I have to burn ethanol - which is hard on the fuel systems of my vehicles, and lowers my mpg's, and raises my cost per gallon.

That is what is ridiculous.

And oh yes - the US Ethanol MUST be made from CORN - not sugar cane - per the lobbyists demands.

That causes the cost of FOOD to go up too.

It is a double screwing - at the behest of special interests - but hey - it will stop global warming - right?
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on September 20, 2017, 12:20:24 AM
More on the size of the bare areas of pipe:

http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/09/line_5_coating_inspection.html (http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/09/line_5_coating_inspection.html)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on September 25, 2017, 08:49:34 AM
Speaking of oil. Isn't this ridiculous??

[url]http://www.13abc.com/content/news/Toledo-Refining-says-government-mandate-could-cost-jobs--445446413.html[/url] ([url]http://www.13abc.com/content/news/Toledo-Refining-says-government-mandate-could-cost-jobs--445446413.html[/url])


Don'r need to be there anyway.  I don't see Marathon in Ecorse whining.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on September 25, 2017, 08:52:00 AM
What is ridiculous is lobbyists for the farmers have had regulators and lawmakers pass stupid laws and regulations that says I have to burn ethanol - which is hard on the fuel systems of my vehicles, and lowers my mpg's, and raises my cost per gallon.

That is what is ridiculous.

And oh yes - the US Ethanol MUST be made from CORN - not sugar cane - per the lobbyists demands.

That causes the cost of FOOD to go up too.

It is a double screwing - at the behest of special interests - but hey - it will stop global warming - right?

Wrong.

I bet you'll find it interesting that the large majority of corn cookers are owned by offshore companies.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: Monroe Native on September 25, 2017, 07:28:10 PM
Wrong.

I bet you'll find it interesting that the large majority of corn cookers are owned by offshore companies.

Where did I say they weren't?
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on October 13, 2017, 08:02:03 PM
An article from the Sierra Club on Line 5.

https://www.ecowatch.com/enbridge-pipeline-sierra-2495961923.html (https://www.ecowatch.com/enbridge-pipeline-sierra-2495961923.html)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on October 27, 2017, 08:03:40 PM
More on the missing patches of coating that have apparently been missing for 3 years!

http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/10/enbridge_line_5_damage_2014_de.html#incart_river_home (http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/10/enbridge_line_5_damage_2014_de.html#incart_river_home)
Title: Michigan Senators call for investigation into Enbridge
Post by: BigRedDog on November 08, 2017, 09:30:36 AM
The only surprise here is that it has taken this long to reach this point!

http://upnorthlive.com/news/local/michigan-senators-call-for-investigation-into-enbridge (http://upnorthlive.com/news/local/michigan-senators-call-for-investigation-into-enbridge)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on November 08, 2017, 10:42:20 AM
No revelation to me.  The Michigan Legislature cannot even pass insurance reform.  I'm surprised they can even think positively.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on November 15, 2017, 01:26:48 PM
The latest on the missing patches of coating!

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2017/11/new_report_on_line_5_coating_g.html#incart_river_home (http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2017/11/new_report_on_line_5_coating_g.html#incart_river_home)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on November 16, 2017, 05:17:27 PM
One day closer to the big oooooops.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on December 26, 2017, 05:46:49 PM
A very good video on what could happen if one of those old pipes on the bottom of the straits were to leak!

The Dirty Secret at the Bottom of the Great Lakes: Oil & Water (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ic9NcKtEPGs#)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on January 14, 2018, 10:36:54 AM
And yet another 'study' :-\ :-\ :-\

http://upnorthlive.com/news/local/michigan-tech-engineer-to-lead-line-5-study (http://upnorthlive.com/news/local/michigan-tech-engineer-to-lead-line-5-study)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on January 16, 2018, 06:00:17 PM
Imagine that...

this group says all the state has been doing is 'kicking the can'...

sounds familiar!!!

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/01/advocacy_group_state_must_stop.html#incart_river_home (http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/01/advocacy_group_state_must_stop.html#incart_river_home)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on January 16, 2018, 10:35:22 PM
They will study it and postulate until it busts and then blame each other while Rome burns.  It's gonna bust, take that as book.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on January 16, 2018, 10:37:30 PM
Guess who will be on the hook for most if the cleanup cost...  Only ONE guess...
Title: Snyder rejects advice to shut down Line 5
Post by: BigRedDog on January 30, 2018, 09:30:58 AM
Why bother studying it if you're not going to follow the advice of the study?

Certainly seems like a total waste of 'taxpayer' $$$   :( :( :(


http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/01/snyder_rejects_boards_advice_o.html (http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/01/snyder_rejects_boards_advice_o.html)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on January 30, 2018, 10:13:04 AM
Taxpayer money is 'funny money. so wasting it is just fine because it wasn't their's in the first place.  As with all things political and money. a bit of common sense would save the taxpayers a bundle, but, that is asking too much I guess.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on March 06, 2018, 08:59:39 AM
Interesting...

I knew there were politics involved in Line 5 but didn't figure the Ruskies would have an interest!

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/03/06/michigan-report-russian-meddling-mackinac-oil-pipeline/396666002/ (https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/03/06/michigan-report-russian-meddling-mackinac-oil-pipeline/396666002/)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on March 06, 2018, 03:35:52 PM
Interesting.  Another day closer to failure while the politicians postulate.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on March 08, 2018, 08:59:33 AM
(http://static-13.sinclairstoryline.com/resources/media/3708d038-bbba-4d83-a30b-e0f1aeb0835b-large16x9_fs.jpg?1520503456934)

A photo of the 'blue ice' shelfing up in the straits over the last week.  This photo is within a half mile of where Line 5 reaches the lower peninsula.  Imagine what a few million barrels of crude oil would look like mixed in there :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

Photo credit to:

http://upnorthlive.com/news/local/snow-gradually-winds-down-thursday-with-high-temperatures-near-normal-for-early-march (http://upnorthlive.com/news/local/snow-gradually-winds-down-thursday-with-high-temperatures-near-normal-for-early-march)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: blue2 on March 08, 2018, 09:26:32 AM
Wow!
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on March 08, 2018, 09:53:53 AM
Wow!

Yes...

pretty dramatic.  I read last week that some of the piles were 14-16 feet high.  Not sure what these are but I would guess at least 10-12 feet. 

Clear clean water makes 'blue' ice ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on March 08, 2018, 05:45:44 PM
Can you imagine a nice chocolate coating of crude on that?
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on March 12, 2018, 09:53:11 AM
The latest on Line 5 status:


https://www.freep.com/story/opinion/contributors/2018/03/12/enbridge-michigan-line-5/401513002/ (https://www.freep.com/story/opinion/contributors/2018/03/12/enbridge-michigan-line-5/401513002/)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on March 12, 2018, 10:31:40 PM
One more day closer to failure.... ;D
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on March 13, 2018, 10:16:35 AM
A video done with photos of the 'blue ice' at the straits. 

Warning, turn your audio down or off.  The soundtrack is obnoxious!!!

Blue ice in the Straits of Mackinac (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQU8c46yi9s&feature=youtu.be#)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on March 13, 2018, 11:44:20 PM
Could you just imagine that covered with light sweet crude.  Be like Hershey syrup on ice cream ;D
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on March 26, 2018, 08:54:26 AM


http://upnorthlive.com/news/local/enbridge-energy-installs-anchor-points-along-line-5-in-straits-of-mackinac (http://upnorthlive.com/news/local/enbridge-energy-installs-anchor-points-along-line-5-in-straits-of-mackinac)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on April 04, 2018, 07:54:29 AM
There's been a small oil leak at the straits.  Fortunately not crude oil from line 5 but rather a specialized electrical insulating oil from some power lines.  Sounds like it will be very tasty when it eventually gets sucked into the Monroe and Toledo drinking water intakes!

This electric line runs parallel to line 5 and only a few hundred feet to the west.  Should be good practice for the line 5 leak!!!

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/04/straits_spill_in_extraordinary.html#incart_m-rpt-2 (http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/04/straits_spill_in_extraordinary.html#incart_m-rpt-2)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on April 05, 2018, 08:58:40 AM
Sounds like the leak was right out in the deep water so it wasn't ice that caused the leak.  They do have the rest of the coolant pumped out of the casing at this point. 

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/04/remaining_oil_pumped_from_leak.html (http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/04/remaining_oil_pumped_from_leak.html)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on April 06, 2018, 10:52:00 AM
A prior article indicated the 'damage' was out in the deepest water so most likely cause would have been a ship dragging it's anchor.  The shipping has been pretty slow through the straits the last couple of months so it should be a fairly short list of potential culprits. 

It doesn't make me comfortable at all that their position that because we're not seeing a sheen on the surface of the water then there's little to worry about!!!

http://www.wtol.com/story/37895814/marine-vessel-may-have-caused-leaks-into-straits-of-mackinac (http://www.wtol.com/story/37895814/marine-vessel-may-have-caused-leaks-into-straits-of-mackinac)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on April 06, 2018, 11:10:59 AM
Here's an article from Mlive on the recent leak.  A couple of neat and recent photos of the straits here too.

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/04/spill_near_mackinac_bridge_a_w.html (http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/04/spill_near_mackinac_bridge_a_w.html)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on April 06, 2018, 09:41:55 PM
A prior article indicated the 'damage' was out in the deepest water so most likely cause would have been a ship dragging it's anchor.  The shipping has been pretty slow through the straits the last couple of months so it should be a fairly short list of potential culprits. 

It doesn't make me comfortable at all that their position that because we're not seeing a sheen on the surface of the water then there's little to worry about!!!

[url]http://www.wtol.com/story/37895814/marine-vessel-may-have-caused-leaks-into-straits-of-mackinac[/url] ([url]http://www.wtol.com/story/37895814/marine-vessel-may-have-caused-leaks-into-straits-of-mackinac[/url])


What would happen if a ship dragged it's anchor over line 5?
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on April 06, 2018, 10:01:20 PM
One more day closer to a line 5 blowout, oiling of the Straits and Enbridge passing the buck or going bankrupt and sticking the citizens of Michigan with the clean up bill.

I say, shut them off before they leak...
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on April 07, 2018, 09:37:10 AM
What would happen if a ship dragged it's anchor over line 5?


Anything from chipping off a little of their fancy coating to literally ripping the pipes open!

One more day closer to a line 5 blowout, oiling of the Straits and Enbridge passing the buck or going bankrupt and sticking the citizens of Michigan with the clean up bill.

I say, shut them off before they leak...


Looks like Enbridge did shut it down...

just long enough to run a pig through the line and declare it 'safe'!!!

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/04/coast_guard_says_vessel_may_ha.html (http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/04/coast_guard_says_vessel_may_ha.html)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on April 07, 2018, 09:39:10 AM
An 'opinion' article but lots of good info too.

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/04/spill_near_mackinac_bridge_a_w.html#incart_2box_mlive_homepage_featured_entries (http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/04/spill_near_mackinac_bridge_a_w.html#incart_2box_mlive_homepage_featured_entries)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on April 07, 2018, 05:48:52 PM
This is slightly off topic but it is a neat and recent photo of the straits from the air...

or rather from the International Space Station.  I think they said it is 250 miles up above us.

Related article:

http://www.mlive.com/news/us-world/index.ssf/2018/04/michigan_astronaut_shares_grea.html (http://www.mlive.com/news/us-world/index.ssf/2018/04/michigan_astronaut_shares_grea.html)

Twitter link to photo:

https://twitter.com/Astro_Feustel/status/982345152743092225/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mlive.com%2Fnews%2Fus-world%2Findex.ssf%2F2018%2F04%2Fmichigan_astronaut_shares_grea.html%23incart_2box_mlive_homepage_featured_entries (https://twitter.com/Astro_Feustel/status/982345152743092225/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mlive.com%2Fnews%2Fus-world%2Findex.ssf%2F2018%2F04%2Fmichigan_astronaut_shares_grea.html%23incart_2box_mlive_homepage_featured_entries)

Before anyone gets turned around trying to figure out where they are...

this photo is 'upside down'.  Mackinac City is at the top and St. Ignace is at the bottom!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DaH9Ui1VAAAsKma.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on April 07, 2018, 07:52:44 PM
Nice shot.  Good resolution.  I see the USCG is doing a marine life risk assessment after the cable leak.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on April 08, 2018, 09:39:34 AM
Nice shot.  Good resolution. I see the USCG is doing a marine life risk assessment after the cable leak.

I'm sure the space station has some of the best cameras available.  It's probably scary what they can see in some of the photos!
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on April 09, 2018, 08:29:19 PM
I'm sure the space station has some of the best cameras available.  It's probably scary what they can see in some of the photos!

You would be surprised.  They can see you taking a leak on the back 40 if they want to, so be careful where you expose your taddy wacker.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on April 10, 2018, 12:13:02 PM
The CG is being very quiet about what may have damaged the cables...

I wonder if it might have been one of their own ships.  Several had been working in the area prior to discovery of the leak.



http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/04/no_evidence_mackinac_straits_s.html (http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/04/no_evidence_mackinac_straits_s.html)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on April 11, 2018, 03:10:19 PM
And now Enbridge is admitting their lines were hit last week but as usual they're minimizing the damage report!

http://upnorthlive.com/news/local/enbridge-reports-damage-to-line-5 (http://upnorthlive.com/news/local/enbridge-reports-damage-to-line-5)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on April 11, 2018, 03:27:28 PM
Short of just re-routing the pipeline all the way through Canada it's time to shut down what is there and put 'new' lines in and put them in a trench and covered with several feet of cover. 

It didn't take an engineering study to figure out the potential for potential damage from dragging an anchor through the straits!

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/04/11/enbridge-line-oil-pipeline-straits-mackinac/507506002/ (https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/04/11/enbridge-line-oil-pipeline-straits-mackinac/507506002/)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on April 11, 2018, 09:55:10 PM
One day closer to a major spill, all while 'Rome' (Lansing) postulates.  I'm starting to wonder if the CG itself drug an anchor.  They seem to be 'dragging' their feet in the investigation.  So the cables were compromised by an anchor and the lines (5) were dented.

This is all going to either get interesting or the pipe will fail and all hell will break loose.

I'm just imagining a dragging anchor pulling the pipes (line 5) and causing it to fail and Enbridge being 'asleep on the switch' like the were on the Kalamazoo River and pumping millions of gallons of crude into the water....

Horrible thoughts but very real....
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on April 11, 2018, 10:01:24 PM
.... and of course if that happens, Enbridge will go tits up and stick us with the cleanup bill.  Money talks and the oil lobby is very powerful in Lansing....

I still say that the pipes should be routed on the superstructure of the bridge itself.  The bridge can carry the weight and Enbridge can pay rent for the use of the bridge.  Same with the electrical cables.  Get all that crap out of the water.

With the pipes and cables on the bridge and paying rent, the tolls can be eliminated.  Win-Win for everyone.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on April 12, 2018, 09:53:58 AM
A couple of opinion articles:


https://www.thetimesherald.com/story/opinion/editorials/2018/04/11/proof-line-bad-idea/33748285/ (https://www.thetimesherald.com/story/opinion/editorials/2018/04/11/proof-line-bad-idea/33748285/)

https://www.oilandwaterdontmix.org/owdm_slams_governors_pro_enbridge_response_to_damaged_line_5 (https://www.oilandwaterdontmix.org/owdm_slams_governors_pro_enbridge_response_to_damaged_line_5)
Title: Ann Arbor filmmaker creates documentary on Line 5 oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on April 12, 2018, 10:36:49 AM
Both the trailer and the video are available online.  The rest of the story will be available later this summer.

An interesting way to release a documentary.

http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2018/04/new_documentary_series_to_focu.html (http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2018/04/new_documentary_series_to_focu.html)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on April 12, 2018, 10:43:04 AM
This article is all about Lake Huron which would obviously be impacted by any Line 5 leakage. 

Also some interesting comparisons to the beach closures we see here on the west end of Lake Erie.

http://www.mlive.com/expo/erry-2018/04/715c7230676904/lake_huron_in_fair_condition_a.html#incart_m-rpt-2 (http://www.mlive.com/expo/erry-2018/04/715c7230676904/lake_huron_in_fair_condition_a.html#incart_m-rpt-2)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: Maverick on April 12, 2018, 12:43:28 PM
.... and of course if that happens, Enbridge will go tits up and stick us with the cleanup bill.  Money talks and the oil lobby is very powerful in Lansing....

I still say that the pipes should be routed on the superstructure of the bridge itself.  The bridge can carry the weight and Enbridge can pay rent for the use of the bridge.  Same with the electrical cables.  Get all that crap out of the water.

With the pipes and cables on the bridge and paying rent, the tolls can be eliminated.  Win-Win for everyone.

Not sure how the pipe would work strung from the bridge. Doesn't that bridge move quite a bit in the wind and if there was a leak for any reason like  excessive movement or a terrorists bomb, would the oil end up in the same water ?
Seems to me like the lake bed or under the lake bed is the safest place for it given that there really isn't a practical alternative.

Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on April 12, 2018, 09:46:39 PM
Not sure how the pipe would work strung from the bridge. Doesn't that bridge move quite a bit in the wind and if there was a leak for any reason like  excessive movement or a terrorists bomb, would the oil end up in the same water ?
Seems to me like the lake bed or under the lake bed is the safest place for it given that there really isn't a practical alternative.

Pipe movement can be compensated for with flex connections.  Used all the time in industrial applications.  Actually, the safest alternative is jut to decomission the line and move it across Ontario Province.  The oil goes to Canada anyway, it's not for domestic refining.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on April 13, 2018, 09:34:30 AM
I had a discussion with our son last night about hanging the pipelines from the bridge.

He says anything is possible as long as someone's pockets are deep enough.  He's an industrial pipefitter in a refinery so he has some background. 

We were trying to figure out how much the empty pipes would weigh empty.  One of the news links I had posted recently had said the pipe walls are "almost an inch thick".  That threw us off because we couldn't figure out what 'schedule" (wall thickness) that translated to.  Once we know the pipe schedule it's easy to get the weight of the empty pipe. 

This morning I found another article from a few years back that indicates the pipe walls are .812 of an inch thick.  I suppose to a journalist writing an article that could translate to "almost an inch" although others might say "just over 3/4 on a inch". 

Journalists are not experts in anything but writing so you always need to take anything you read (or hear on the internet) with a grain (or two or three or four) of salt. 

Once I had a wall thickness I went to this website and checked info on 20 inch diameter pipe.  .812 translates to schedule 60 which then works out to 155.4 pounds per foot.  There are currently twin pipes so that would be 311 pounds per foot without any product inside the pipes.  I would guess that crude oil would be the heaviest product the pipeline would be carrying. 

https://www.usaindustries.com/charts-and-tables/pipe-size-od-id-schedules-chart.php (https://www.usaindustries.com/charts-and-tables/pipe-size-od-id-schedules-chart.php)

The weight of the pipe used for the underwater section of the pipeline does have one move variable.

Most pipe is extruded and a machine welds the seam along the lateral length of the pipe.

The Line 5 pipes are cast steel which makes them stronger.  Not sure if it makes them heavier though.  It does remove the welded seam running the length of the pipe but the pipe was still in sections and had to be welded on site. 
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on April 13, 2018, 09:56:44 AM
Here's the link to the piece I referenced in my prior post:

https://mynorth.com/2016/09/line-5/
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on April 15, 2018, 05:15:21 PM
I thought the nerd had said that Enbridge would be shutting the lines down during inclement weather...

this sounds like it took some prodding (and a power outage in Wisconsin) to get them to shut down!

http://www.mlive.com/news/muskegon/index.ssf/2018/04/damaged_enbridge_line_5_shut_d.html (http://www.mlive.com/news/muskegon/index.ssf/2018/04/damaged_enbridge_line_5_shut_d.html)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on April 16, 2018, 08:37:03 AM
You ought to know by now that what the 'nerd' says and what actually occurs are usually polar opposites.  Enbridge will do whatever they want to, when they want to until force is applied to compel them to act and the 'oil lobby' in Lansing is very strong and out representatives weak and suseptable to greasing (as evidenced by Zorn and the Karst fiasco here in Summerfield Township).

Enbridge is well bankrolled and not about to 'shut down' line 5 unless they are compelled to and I don't see that happening, until it leaks and then the finger pointing will begin...  and it will eventually fail and it will destroy the Straits and Enbridge will go bankrupt and we will get stuck with the clean up bill.  How it works.  Poop rolls downhill...  downhill to us... ;D
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on April 16, 2018, 07:03:02 PM
At least they're attempting to actually take a look at the damage now!


http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/04/after_weekend_shutdown_enbridg.html (http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/04/after_weekend_shutdown_enbridg.html)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on April 16, 2018, 08:05:12 PM
And now it's pumping again!

http://upnorthlive.com/news/local/enbridge-restarts-line-5 (http://upnorthlive.com/news/local/enbridge-restarts-line-5)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on April 16, 2018, 10:13:20 PM
One day closer to failure...  I'm amazed and a bit distressed over the USCG dragging their feet on the 'anchor strike..  I'm beginning to think that a USCG ice breaker actually did the deed which is why the CG is silent.  If so, how do they account for their own mistake?

Pretty easy to know what vessels were in the Straits on the day(s) the 'strike' happened.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on April 17, 2018, 09:16:51 AM
The anchor dragging ship has been identified.  Interesting that it is a somewhat local company so you would think they would have known that this stretch is a no anchor zone!

http://upnorthlive.com/news/local/schuette-civil-action-against-company-who-owns-boat-that-dragged-anchor-in-straits (http://upnorthlive.com/news/local/schuette-civil-action-against-company-who-owns-boat-that-dragged-anchor-in-straits)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on April 17, 2018, 11:01:03 AM
Some basic info on the ship itself:

http://www.tugboatinformation.com/tug.cfm?id=8355 (http://www.tugboatinformation.com/tug.cfm?id=8355)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on April 17, 2018, 11:33:43 AM
I've seen it on Cleveland on the Cuyahoga over wintering at the Acellor Mittal dock off Valley Road in the flats before.  It's an odd looking vessel.

Guess we will see how 'on duty' Schutte proceeds.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on April 19, 2018, 05:43:55 PM
This isn't the first time this tug boat company has been in trouble with the state:

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/04/shipping_firm_sued_by_state_in.html (http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/04/shipping_firm_sued_by_state_in.html)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on April 21, 2018, 10:08:36 AM
Another great photo from the space station.

The upper peninsula is on the left and Line 5 crosses at an angle in the lower part of the photo.  You can't see anything in the water but if you know where to look you can see the buildings involved with the pipeline and the power stations connecting to the underwater power cables. 

http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2018/04/international_space_station_cr.html (http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2018/04/international_space_station_cr.html)

(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/30705024_1936979659668289_699697537417740288_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=bf5181f92b5cdb98c5dca48696b58079&oe=5B9BE012)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on April 23, 2018, 10:07:19 AM
Seems like I saw something over the weekend that said this machine will also be taking some photos of the damage to Line 5 once they have finished with the power cable recon. 

I keep reading lots of them patting themselves on the back about all the 'cooling oil' they have recovered...   but all of it is what was left inside the electric cables after the break.  I haven't read anything about how they're recovering the oil that actually leaked and got away.

That may all end up in someone's drinking water one of these days :( :( :(

http://upnorthlive.com/news/local/sonar-equipment-deployed-to-assess-damage-to-cables-in-mineral-oil-leak (http://upnorthlive.com/news/local/sonar-equipment-deployed-to-assess-damage-to-cables-in-mineral-oil-leak)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on April 23, 2018, 11:15:26 AM
More postulation and one day closer to a failure.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on April 24, 2018, 09:50:29 AM
Very obvious and substantial damage to one of the power cables.  Seems like at one point I read there are a total of six of them across the straits. 

I'm curious as to the design and style of the anchor involved. 

So far I haven't seen any photos of any damage to the Line 5 pipes.  I'm sure any photos of that will be scrutinized very closely before anyone can post those!!!

http://upnorthlive.com/news/local/the-unified-command-releases-photos-of-damage-to-utility-cables-in-straits (http://upnorthlive.com/news/local/the-unified-command-releases-photos-of-damage-to-utility-cables-in-straits)

(http://static-17.sinclairstoryline.com/resources/media/6a3d4793-2096-445a-92d6-3d9e8d2c908a-large16x9_ROVimage2.jpg?1524557443189)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on April 25, 2018, 12:40:29 PM
Wow.....I bet things got 'sparky' down there........ ;D
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on April 25, 2018, 12:41:35 PM
Knowing Enbridge's track record, we may never see the dents in Line 5.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on April 26, 2018, 08:36:19 AM
Knowing Enbridge's track record, we may never see the dents in Line 5.

That area is popular with amateur divers so at some point someone is going to do some diving there and take some photos.  Once they get out they will definitely circulate quickly.  Maybe some of the 'anti Line 5' environmental groups have deep enough pockets to get their own remote vehicle to go down and take some pictures.

They wouldn't have to do the entire stretch but just the area where the anchor dragged. 
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on April 26, 2018, 08:42:03 AM
Wow.....I bet things got 'sparky' down there........ ;D

One of the articles I saw recently said it was a 138KV line and the first indication of a problem was one of their circuit breakers tripped so something must have been arcing. 

Anchors usually have at least a stretch of heavy chain attached to them. 

Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on April 26, 2018, 08:45:53 AM
This is an article from yesterday's MLive that mentions the voltage.

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/04/severed_power_cables_will_be_c.html (http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/04/severed_power_cables_will_be_c.html)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on April 26, 2018, 07:40:19 PM
130,000 volts.  Typical transmission voltage.  Those cables look as though they got warm
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on April 27, 2018, 08:35:15 AM
It must look like a junk yard in that stretch of the straits.  Consumers Energy took their lines out of service decades ago and was allowed to just leave them laying in place. 

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/04/more_power_cables_found_damage.html (http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/04/more_power_cables_found_damage.html)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on April 27, 2018, 04:23:39 PM
Lot of valuable copper down there...  Kind of surprised some scrapper hasn't devised a way of reeling them (dead and unused) cables in and getting the copper.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on April 27, 2018, 06:35:57 PM
Lot of valuable copper down there...  Kind of surprised some scrapper hasn't devised a way of reeling them (dead and unused) cables in and getting the copper.

I'm guessing that not too many people were aware of it up until right now.  I've been to the point where the active cables run south from the upper peninsula end.  I didn't see any indication of anything with CP on it.  They're buried until they get out in the water a ways and they'd have to cut them on one end or the other or at some point out in the water so they could reel them in.  On the UP side there aren't many homes around but on the LP side it's cottage on top of cottage so might be a little more difficult to do much on this end. 
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on April 28, 2018, 08:48:00 AM
Here's a photo that Enbridge released but it's very lacking of any detail.

(https://image.mlive.com/home/mlive-media/width600/img/grpress/news_impact/photo/Enbridge%20Line%205%20East%20Line%20apparent%20contact%20areas%20circled%20-%20Ballard%20Marine%20(1).jpg)

It doesn't look critical from the photo but when you're talking about a pressurized vessel it doesn't take much to go from a dent to a small leak to a major leak. 

Enbridge has reduced the pressure on the system but that sounds like it was forced from some of the oversight on them.

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/04/enbridge_reduces_line_5_pressu.html (http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/04/enbridge_reduces_line_5_pressu.html)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on April 28, 2018, 10:34:41 AM
I'm guessing that not too many people were aware of it up until right now.  I've been to the point where the active cables run south from the upper peninsula end.  I didn't see any indication of anything with CP on it.  They're buried until they get out in the water a ways and they'd have to cut them on one end or the other or at some point out in the water so they could reel them in.  On the UP side there aren't many homes around but on the LP side it's cottage on top of cottage so might be a little more difficult to do much on this end.

Copper is inside the outer sheath.

I'm kind of surprised that one of the layers in the American Transmission cable is lead.  Lead will leach into the water over time...
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on April 28, 2018, 10:55:55 AM
Here's a photo that Enbridge released but it's very lacking of any detail.

([url]https://image.mlive.com/home/mlive-media/width600/img/grpress/news_impact/photo/Enbridge%20Line%205%20East%20Line%20apparent%20contact%20areas%20circled%20-%20Ballard%20Marine%20(1).jpg)[/url]

It doesn't look critical from the photo but when you're talking about a pressurized vessel it doesn't take much to go from a dent to a small leak to a major leak. 

ASTM regs state anytime any pressure vessel is impacted or damaged in any way, it is to be immediately taken out of service and replaced.  Furthermore, no repairs (welding) can be done to the impact area.

The pipeline IS a pressure vessel.

At least the anchor apparently impacted the pipeline and rode up over it, unlike the cables, where it severed them.  Could you just imagine if the anchor had wedged between the pipe and floor if the channel?  It would have either stopped the boat or the weight of the boat would have broken the pipe and knowing Enbridge, they would have kept right on pumping crude or LNG.  Exactly what happened in Kazoo.  Gee, we have a pressure drop so increase the flow....duh.

Enbridge has reduced the pressure on the system but that sounds like it was forced from some of the oversight on them.

[url]http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/04/enbridge_reduces_line_5_pressu.html[/url] ([url]http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/04/enbridge_reduces_line_5_pressu.html[/url])
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on April 28, 2018, 10:57:03 AM
One more day closer to the oily end of the Straits.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on April 28, 2018, 02:26:42 PM
Quote
ASTM regs state anytime any pressure vessel is impacted or damaged in any way, it is to be immediately taken out of service and replaced.  Furthermore, no repairs (welding) can be done to the impact area.

The pipeline IS a pressure vessel.

Then how are they able to still be operating by limiting the pressure?
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on April 29, 2018, 11:53:41 AM
Someone is paying some overtime for this project!

Looks like they took along several rolls of electrical tape for the repair job!!!

http://upnorthlive.com/news/local/crews-continue-to-cap-severed-utility-cables-in-straits-of-mackinac (http://upnorthlive.com/news/local/crews-continue-to-cap-severed-utility-cables-in-straits-of-mackinac)

(http://static-20.sinclairstoryline.com/resources/media/4fd14f8e-4596-41d9-8433-98f623526585-large16x9_CappedLine.jpg?1525012309678)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on April 29, 2018, 11:58:38 AM
Then how are they able to still be operating by limiting the pressure?

Your guess is as good as mine...  Wonder if it has something to do with money and the Michigan oil lobby....
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on April 30, 2018, 04:20:18 PM
The cables are capped and waiting for them to figure out a plan to remove them (and I assume install new ones which they will hopefully bury).

They did recover another 625 gallons of the coolant.  I haven't seen yet how many gallons total were lost into the straits >:( >:( >:(

http://upnorthlive.com/news/local/all-severed-utility-cables-capped-in-straits-of-mackinac (http://upnorthlive.com/news/local/all-severed-utility-cables-capped-in-straits-of-mackinac)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on May 02, 2018, 06:46:24 PM
I don't think I've posted these but if I have I'm sorry about that!  So many of the articles are overlapping so it's hard to keep it straight.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20180426/news01/659191/consumers-energy-explores-removing-underwater-cables-in-straits-of (http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20180426/news01/659191/consumers-energy-explores-removing-underwater-cables-in-straits-of)


http://www.sooeveningnews.com/news/20180427/line-5-protecting-our-great-lakes (http://www.sooeveningnews.com/news/20180427/line-5-protecting-our-great-lakes)


https://www.greatlakesnow.org/2018/05/federal-agency-phmsa-asks-enbridge-to-lower-pressure-on-line-5-in-the-straits/ (https://www.greatlakesnow.org/2018/05/federal-agency-phmsa-asks-enbridge-to-lower-pressure-on-line-5-in-the-straits/)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on May 02, 2018, 08:48:06 PM
Read somewhere that to remove the DTE cables will take 15 years....  Guess they figure Line 5 will bust first.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on May 03, 2018, 09:16:22 AM
Read somewhere that to remove the DTE cables will take 15 years....  Guess they figure Line 5 will bust first.

I think you mean Consumer's Energy but that's only a minor detail at this point. 

It will probably take two days for the contractor to pull them out...

the 15 years may be for them to get the necessary permits!

They haven't been used for 25 years and are never going to be used again.  They took some samples of the material in them last week and are having it analyzed. 

Anytime something is installed on public property there should be a plan to remove it when the intended use is complete and the property should be re-mediated.  These companies should all have to put the money in a trust fund to do all of that too.  Under those terms maybe Enbridge could find a better route and keep the line in Canada (where the profits flow to anyway). 

Follow the money!!!
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on May 03, 2018, 04:47:45 PM
Sorry, I stand corrected on that.  Now if they all had to post a bond equal to or more than the estimated cost of clean up or remediation.  That would put a damper on any and all 'projects'....

Of course Enbridge could not afford to do that....
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on May 03, 2018, 04:49:59 PM
The cables are capped and waiting for them to figure out a plan to remove them (and I assume install new ones which they will hopefully bury).

They did recover another 625 gallons of the coolant.  I haven't seen yet how many gallons total were lost into the straits >:( >:( >:(

[url]http://upnorthlive.com/news/local/all-severed-utility-cables-capped-in-straits-of-mackinac[/url] ([url]http://upnorthlive.com/news/local/all-severed-utility-cables-capped-in-straits-of-mackinac[/url])


625 gallons is a drop in the bucket, literally, compared to a Line 5 blowout.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on May 10, 2018, 09:07:54 AM
Sounds like the Coast Guard has finished with any active involvement.

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/05/coast_guard_closes_out_spill_r.html (http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/05/coast_guard_closes_out_spill_r.html)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on May 10, 2018, 09:23:38 AM
I read that as well.  Wonder if that also means they won't prosecute the tugboat company for the anchor drag?
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on May 10, 2018, 09:40:23 AM
I read that as well.  Wonder if that also means they won't prosecute the tugboat company for the anchor drag?

For some reason we just haven't heard anything on the tugboat part of it. 
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on May 14, 2018, 08:28:35 PM
I read that as well.  Wonder if that also means they won't prosecute the tugboat company for the anchor drag?


Sounds like there never has been a prohibition against anchoring in the straits...

only an advisory!

Also a basic description of the band aid Enbridge wants to put on the damaged pipes.

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/05/enbridge_likely_to_wrap_protec.html (http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/05/enbridge_likely_to_wrap_protec.html)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on May 14, 2018, 10:04:47 PM
Sounds like just more postulation leading to an eminent rupture....
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on May 15, 2018, 07:32:06 AM
Sounds like just more postulation leading to an eminent rupture....

Here's one prediction of what all that postulation could end up costing us!

https://www.greatlakesnow.org/2018/05/new-study-says-line-5-oil-spill-could-cost-michigan-6-billion-dollars/ (https://www.greatlakesnow.org/2018/05/new-study-says-line-5-oil-spill-could-cost-michigan-6-billion-dollars/)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on May 15, 2018, 10:26:59 AM
Here's one prediction of what all that postulation could end up costing us!

https://www.greatlakesnow.org/2018/05/new-study-says-line-5-oil-spill-could-cost-michigan-6-billion-dollars/ (https://www.greatlakesnow.org/2018/05/new-study-says-line-5-oil-spill-could-cost-michigan-6-billion-dollars/)

Of course Enbridge always says any study is flawed when the study addresses the what if scenario.  Not in the best interests of Enbridge to do anything other than what it's doing, making money that Michigan gets NONE OF.

I think 6 billion in today's dollars is very conservative.  I also feel that Enbridge should be required to post at least a 6 Billion Dollar guranteed cash surety bond to cover at least the major portion of the clean up (that will happen at some point in the future, you can bank on that, instead of the taxpayers (us), footing the bill.

Our political leaders are going to postulate until the cows come home, but when they do (when Line 5 breaks). all those politicians wll get amneshia.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on May 16, 2018, 09:57:48 AM
Short of just keeping Line 5 in Canada this looks like the best (both safest and by far the most expen$ive) option for the straits crossing.

I'm sure Enbridge won't want to fund the cost though!

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/05/line_5_tunnel_construction_und.html (http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/05/line_5_tunnel_construction_und.html)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on May 16, 2018, 06:07:11 PM
Now that the anchor excitement is dropping off we can get back to the anchors.

I wonder if the anchors held the pipe in place when the anchor was dragged over the pipe?

http://upnorthlive.com/news/local/group-wants-public-hearing-for-line-5-anchors (http://upnorthlive.com/news/local/group-wants-public-hearing-for-line-5-anchors)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on June 05, 2018, 09:55:30 AM
The good news is they'll be replacing the 'old' pipes...

the bad news is they will still be piping oil through a very sensitive area >:( >:( >:(

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/06/05/michigan-utility-corridor-line-5/670067002/ (https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/06/05/michigan-utility-corridor-line-5/670067002/)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on June 05, 2018, 11:44:03 AM
Actually, a tunnel housing multiple utilities isn't a bad idea and tunnel boring equipment is pretty advanced today.  My question would be about a tunnel carrying both flammable liquids and gasses sharing space with high voltage power transmission lines.  Electricity and flammable stuff don't mix well.

If it was a multiple use tunnel, all the parties using it could share the cost of construction which means we (citizens) wouldn't be on the hook for anything.  We are on the 'hook' for enough now (MSU comes to mind right away).... ;D

I didn't see where any mention of replacing any pipes though,  Maybe I missed that part.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on June 06, 2018, 09:34:37 AM
Actually, a tunnel housing multiple utilities isn't a bad idea and tunnel boring equipment is pretty advanced today.  My question would be about a tunnel carrying both flammable liquids and gasses sharing space with high voltage power transmission lines.  Electricity and flammable stuff don't mix well.

If it was a multiple use tunnel, all the parties using it could share the cost of construction which means we (citizens) wouldn't be on the hook for anything.  We are on the 'hook' for enough now (MSU comes to mind right away).... ;D

I didn't see where any mention of replacing any pipes though,  Maybe I missed that part.

I doubt they'll move the old pipes into the new tunnel.  That would take them months at the very least. 

They'll put in the tunnel and then put in new pipes or maybe even a single pipe.  The twin pipes on line 5 are only there at the straits.  Then when everything is all done they'll just throw a valve and have a very, very short interruption of service.  Pipelines are money makers and time is money to them. 
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: Maverick on June 06, 2018, 12:50:57 PM
It would have to be one hell of a tunnel. To be practical it would have to be wide enough to service anything installed in it. I envision it also being big enough to drive service equipment thru it for inspections, maintenance etc.  At the least it would have to be wide enough for separation between the utilities. I don't believe anything would be approved without significant isolation distances between say natural gas pipes and high voltage power lines. Much less the isolation a fiber optic cable needs from a power line.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on June 07, 2018, 09:46:06 AM
Maybe they could do a tunnel like the Detroit/Windsor tunnel and run non commercial traffic through it too.  That would eliminate issues for those who are scared of traversing the Mac.

Of course unlike the D/W tunnel, no leaks...lol
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on June 13, 2018, 09:00:01 AM
It would have to be one hell of a tunnel. To be practical it would have to be wide enough to service anything installed in it. I envision it also being big enough to drive service equipment thru it for inspections, maintenance etc.  At the least it would have to be wide enough for separation between the utilities. I don't believe anything would be approved without significant isolation distances between say natural gas pipes and high voltage power lines. Much less the isolation a fiber optic cable needs from a power line.

The current pipelines are 16' and 20" it seems like.  The only stretch of line 5 that is 'siamesed' like this is this stretch under the Straits. 

Even if they went to a 42" pipe that wouldn't be too big.  Another few feet to give room for someone to walk and work on it.  A second parallel tunnel for the electric cables.  They appear to be maybe 5-6" each but if they didn't have to be waterproofed maybe they could be smaller.

Maybe they could do a tunnel like the Detroit/Windsor tunnel and run non commercial traffic through it too.  That would eliminate issues for those who are scared of traversing the Mac.

Of course unlike the D/W tunnel, no leaks...lol

The only issue with that is then the two utility companies would want the Michigan taxpayers to pick up the majority of the cost for the tunnel. 
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on June 16, 2018, 08:57:00 AM
More on the proposed tunnel under the straits. 

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/06/15/enbridge-pipeline-straits-mackinac/705808002/ (https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/06/15/enbridge-pipeline-straits-mackinac/705808002/)

I saw another article yesterday that had a nice sketch of the cross section of the tunnel.  I think I left it open on my desktop computer.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on June 16, 2018, 09:22:51 AM
I switched machines and found it right away.

Scroll down and there are a couple of videos. 

One is a fairly typical boring machine that progresses about 40 feet a day and encases the tunnel in concrete. 

The second video is from Enbridge and it's their 'proposal' to dig a trench and then drag the double walled pipe across the straits and once it's in place cover it up with various layers of material.  A few proposed covering methods are included.

Way back when this first started the 'pipe within a pipe' made the most sense to me.  In the event of the internal pipe leaking it would be contained (at least temporarily) and would make monitoring a lot easier. 

With the tunnel they could send people through to monitor the exterior of the pipe and with the dual pipe they would still have to rely on a dive team or camera of some sort.

http://upnorthlive.com/news/local/report-tunnel-trench-offer-options-for-replacing-pipeline (http://upnorthlive.com/news/local/report-tunnel-trench-offer-options-for-replacing-pipeline)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on June 16, 2018, 02:36:02 PM
The current pipelines are 16' and 20" it seems like.  The only stretch of line 5 that is 'siamesed' like this is this stretch under the Straits. 

Even if they went to a 42" pipe that wouldn't be too big.  Another few feet to give room for someone to walk and work on it.  A second parallel tunnel for the electric cables.  They appear to be maybe 5-6" each but if they didn't have to be waterproofed maybe they could be smaller.

The only issue with that is then the two utility companies would want the Michigan taxpayers to pick up the majority of the cost for the tunnel.

Maybe with the electric but Enbridge..That petroleum does nothing for Michigan at all,  Goes to Canada (Sarnia).
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on June 16, 2018, 02:37:47 PM
Big front page artcle in the Adrian Telegram today about Line 5.  Nothing at all in the MN (and it was an AP story), the crack reporters at the MN must be sleeping.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on June 30, 2018, 08:44:07 AM
I can't believe that their study took several months to complete. 

Anything they put over the pipes will help deflect an anchor from hitting the pipes.  I've seem several references about the strong current out in the middle of the the straits which probably eliminates just covering them with sand or gravel. 

Hopefully the state will require them to buy the rocks from a Michigan quarry!!!

https://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/06/enbridge_considers_piling_rock.html (https://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/06/enbridge_considers_piling_rock.html)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on June 30, 2018, 10:47:26 AM
More info on some of the other water crossings for Line 5!

http://upnorthlive.com/news/local/report-oil-line-makes-nearly-400-michigan-water-crossings (http://upnorthlive.com/news/local/report-oil-line-makes-nearly-400-michigan-water-crossings)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on July 02, 2018, 09:27:05 AM
If you want to make a 'public' comment on Line 5 there is a link in this article to do so.

https://www.petoskeynews.com/featured-pnr/deq-taking-public-input-on-line-anchor-plans/article_cc1dff0b-df91-550d-be36-ee87c0929ccc.html (https://www.petoskeynews.com/featured-pnr/deq-taking-public-input-on-line-anchor-plans/article_cc1dff0b-df91-550d-be36-ee87c0929ccc.html)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on July 02, 2018, 09:55:44 AM
I've read them all previously, in detail.  Line 5 crosses many waterways and swamps in the UP.  But decomissioning it removes all the risks from all of them.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on July 02, 2018, 10:41:31 AM
I've read them all previously, in detail.  Line 5 crosses many waterways and swamps in the UP.  But decomissioning it removes all the risks from all of them.

I don't see that happening anytime in the near future...

too many of our fine outstanding legislators have accepted $$$ from Enbridge >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on July 02, 2018, 01:17:10 PM
Sounds like Enbridge may be 'investing' even more of their $$$ into Michigan...

not necessarily in a good way though!

https://www.freep.com/story/opinion/columnists/nancy-kaffer/2018/05/13/michigan-chamber-enbridge-donation/590519002/ (https://www.freep.com/story/opinion/columnists/nancy-kaffer/2018/05/13/michigan-chamber-enbridge-donation/590519002/)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on July 03, 2018, 06:48:24 AM
Sounds like Enbridge may be 'investing' even more of their $$$ into Michigan...

not necessarily in a good way though!

https://www.freep.com/story/opinion/columnists/nancy-kaffer/2018/05/13/michigan-chamber-enbridge-donation/590519002/ (https://www.freep.com/story/opinion/columnists/nancy-kaffer/2018/05/13/michigan-chamber-enbridge-donation/590519002/)

Called 'greasing the ways to get what you want'....  Considering Enbridge makes millions in profit from line 5, a couple hundred thousand is chump change.

Besides, when it ruptures, those on the greasing side can change their opinions in a flash and still smell like roses..

Money has always talked and politicians have always listened to the 'Swan Song' of it.

Nothing new there.....
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on July 04, 2018, 10:31:15 AM
Called 'greasing the ways to get what you want'....  Considering Enbridge makes millions in profit from line 5, a couple hundred thousand is chump change.

Besides, when it ruptures, those on the greasing side can change their opinions in a flash and still smell like roses..

Money has always talked and politicians have always listened to the 'Swan Song' of it.

Nothing new there.....

Just because it's not 'new' doesn't mean it should become acceptable! 

We wonder what is happening to our country and part of the problem is we have become way too complacent to just let the politicians run the country and pocket the profits!!!
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on July 04, 2018, 09:16:33 PM
I agree 100%,  Tell me how we break that cycle, inquiring minds want to know.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on July 04, 2018, 11:18:18 PM
I agree 100%,  Tell me how we break that cycle, inquiring minds want to know.

Change the laws to where legislators can not accept anything from a lobbyist and can't go to work in the lobbying field after their legislative career is over. 

I doubt they'll ever go that extreme on their own so the people are going to have to do it ourselves and I don't think enough people are that concerned about it. 
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on July 05, 2018, 08:00:23 AM
I would agree.

Watching CL and the Township and how that plays with citizens, this scenario constantly replays itself....

People only become concerned and active in politics when it directly impacts them or they have a 'dog in the game' and when that happens, they get real active but it never lasts long.  Usually it lasts just long enough for them to air their discontent and when it don't go exactly their way, the 'fade back into the woodwork' and become non participants again.

I've watched that play out countless times.

I find it amusing and sad at the same time.

People 'elect' officials and then forget about them until the cycle repeats itself and then they 'elect' the same people again without ever even  taking a look at the candidate's voting record or affiliations or what they do or don't do.  Seldom is an elected official elected on their merits and track record.

Case in point, John Conyers or Walberg.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on July 05, 2018, 08:04:26 AM
Problem is, the elected officials won't legislate anything that negatively impacts them.  Why would you cut your nose off?

A good example of that is insurance reform in this state.

While the state garners little from the line 5 pipeline directly, the state gets a ton of revenue in the form of 'donations of dark money' from the petroleum lobby.

Greasing the ways and pizz on the state, ecology or the citizens that will bear the brunt of any disaster.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: blue2 on July 05, 2018, 10:17:52 AM
Some people starting to wake up.
Article in Blade praising Marcy Kaptur for bringing so much to Toledo in her years of a politician.
More than one comment about she didn't bring anything.  It was our money to begin with
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on July 05, 2018, 10:22:58 AM
Some people starting to wake up.
Article in Blade praising Marcy Kaptur for bringing so much to Toledo in her years of a politician.
More than one comment about she didn't bring anything. It was our money to begin with

And they're right...   

it is taxpayer money to begin with.

Would those same people that don't like Kaptur have preferred all the money that came to Toledo instead had gone to Cleveland. 

There are websites that will show how much 'pork' every federal legislator was able to 'bring home' to their district. 

The bottom line is the taxpayers are going to pay no matter where the funds end up so might as well get some good out of them versus no good whatsoever.

Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on July 05, 2018, 07:45:29 PM
Enbridge finally sues the tugboat company.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/07/05/enbridge-energy-straits-mackinac/760529002/ (https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/07/05/enbridge-energy-straits-mackinac/760529002/)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on July 20, 2018, 09:27:15 AM
An independent study shows the potential for what might happen if Line 5 leaks.  The crude oil could foul hundreds of miles of shoreline and cleanup costs plus lost tourism could top $2B.

Enbridge had an interesting response that this case 'could never happen'...

I'm sure that is what they would have said about the Kalamazoo spill before it happened too.  Just a reminder we were at the scene of the Kalamazoo spill last December and there is still restoration work being done with plenty of large pieces of excavation equipment on the scene and working!!!

More at:

http://upnorthlive.com/news/local/report-lake-oil-spill-in-michigan-would-cost-nearly-2b-07-19-2018 (http://upnorthlive.com/news/local/report-lake-oil-spill-in-michigan-would-cost-nearly-2b-07-19-2018)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on July 22, 2018, 09:51:58 PM
Was in the paper today as well.  False claim however.  It stated that almost 1/2 of Michigan's propane comes through Line 5.  Not true.  Nothing comes through Line 5 that Michigan uses.  All goes to Canada.

I expect no less from Enbridge.  It can never happen...until it does, just like the Kalamazoo River.  Could never happen, but it did.

Hopefully, I'll be passed when it does, but it will eventually, unless it's shut down.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on July 22, 2018, 09:55:55 PM
Some people starting to wake up.
Article in Blade praising Marcy Kaptur for bringing so much to Toledo in her years of a politician.
More than one comment about she didn't bring anything.  It was our money to begin with

Kaptur is just another turd in a dress.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: blue2 on July 23, 2018, 09:43:22 AM
The Toledo Blade has bragged her up for 40 years or whatever it's been.  She does nothing..  I always had to be careful what i said because my father-in-law was always on he reelection committee as they were neighbors.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on July 23, 2018, 10:41:43 PM
Kaptur and Maxine Waters come from the same mold.  Do nothings but with Maxine, she has a big mouth too.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on July 23, 2018, 10:43:14 PM
All my in laws are resolute Democrat Trump haters and that don't stop me from getting in their faces.  I enjoy it actually.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on July 27, 2018, 09:14:01 PM
Enbridge has argued that the UP needs line 5 to supply part of their propane.  This report argues that it would cost very little to bring the propane in by rail or truck.  More reports to follow soon.

http://www.michiganradio.org/post/report-michigan-doesnt-need-line-5-propane (http://www.michiganradio.org/post/report-michigan-doesnt-need-line-5-propane)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on July 29, 2018, 10:38:54 AM
That is rank bullshitte on Enbridge for even saying that.  Line 5, from Superior, Wisconsin is untapped for product.  None of the product carried is used/ cracked here in Michigan and has no impact whatsoever on the UP's propane supply.

They should be ashamed of themselves for advancing a blatant lie, but then they lie all the time, anyway.

Don't believe everything you read, I don't.  Pretty easy to follow Line 5's route and see if there are any production facilities along it's route...  there aren't.  Just compressor stations and valving facilities.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on August 06, 2018, 07:31:25 PM
Hard to believe that there has never been a Federal ban on anchoring near the pipeline and power lines.  Now it will appear on charts.

I wonder how this will impact Schuette's lawsuit against the tugboat company?

The only 'notice' prior to this was the signs posted on the shore.  Those could be 2.5 miles away which would certainly make them hard to see.  On the other hand the tugboat operator was somewhat local so should have known what all was down there!

https://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/08/feds_move_to_ban_anchoring_in.html (https://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/08/feds_move_to_ban_anchoring_in.html)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on August 07, 2018, 06:36:48 PM
Enbridge is now being allowed to operate Line 5 at full pressure for the first time since the anchor strike.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/08/06/line-5-maximum-pressure-federal-regulators/917610002/ (https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/08/06/line-5-maximum-pressure-federal-regulators/917610002/)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on August 08, 2018, 09:02:11 PM
candidly, I don't care if and when it comes apart and how much pollution it causes.  No point in worrying about something that is a political football anyway.  I hope when it blows people come to the realization that they had a chance and blew it.  Probably not though.  People are STUPID.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on August 15, 2018, 09:45:33 PM
Your tax dollars at work preparing for the potential disaster...

no where does it say this is about Enbridge's pipelines but based on location it's not too hard to figure out. 

https://upnorthlive.com/news/local/coast-guard-partners-perform-recovery-training-exercises-in-straits
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: blue2 on August 15, 2018, 10:51:37 PM
To shut down the pipe line it would take a decision by Michigan politicians.  Anyone think that's going to happen.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on August 16, 2018, 08:18:42 AM
To shut down the pipe line it would take a decision by Michigan politicians.  Anyone think that's going to happen.

Not until all the environmental groups become better funded and are able to 'lobby' the politicians with the same amount of cash that the oil companies use.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on August 18, 2018, 01:21:03 PM
Not sure how much impact this will eventually have but Senator Peters is hold an investigative hearing on Line 5.  I'm guessing it's mostly an opportunity for photos and sound bites but if it goes somewhere then more power to him. 

https://upnorthlive.com/news/local/sen-peters-holding-public-hearing-in-traverse-city-about-line-5

I saw yesterday that the feds are in the process of turning all of the clean air regulation back to the state level so we may see the same thing with water quality in  the near future. 
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on September 06, 2018, 10:44:34 PM
We got up early Monday morning in Grayling and drove to Mackinaw City for the bridge walk.  We parked at the DNR Marina and could see the Enbridge dock and building but there was nothing at all going on this year.  One pickup in the locked up fenced in paddock.  After the walk we drove to the other side of town where the pumping facility is.  When we got there we saw a large group of young hippie looking people all standing and looking around.  Several had cameras taking photos and one young man had a very sophisticated and expensive looking video camera.  Of course they gave me the 'evil eye' when I drove up as they had no idea who I was and maybe wondered if I was there to hassle them.  I got out of the truck and walked over and said "well obviously this isn't a stockholders' meeting" and they thought I was 'cool' so we talked environment for a bit.  They are with a group that is doing environmental studies in the lower 48 and are focused on water quality.  They didn't know a lot about the anchor striking the power cables and the pipes themselves so I filled them in some. 

Some pictures I took at the pump station.

(https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/022042500902/media/34052747206/medium/1536287086551/enhance)

This is the robotic gate guard.  It kept asking me to insert my card for entry.  I kept telling it that all I had was my library card but it didn't seem amused!  The very bright LED lights near the top by the cameras kept flashing so I figured I'd take a picture of it since it was obviously taking pictures of me!  I wonder if they have photo recognition that will tell them who I am?

(https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/022042500902/media/34052747139/medium/1536287629369/enhance)

A general view of the pumping facility.

(https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/022042500902/media/34052747007/medium/1536287853684/enhance)

Obviously they don't want anyone digging around their old pipes!

(https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/022042500902/media/34052746991/medium/1536287921595/enhance)

I would not want to pay their electric bill.

I guess if the crude oil doesn't get you the hydrogen sulfide gas will ;) ;) ;)

(https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/022042500902/media/34052746950/medium/1536288067784/enhance)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on September 10, 2018, 08:47:36 AM
A major gas line explosion out in PA this morning.  Took the operator 2 hours to shut down the flow.  I'm not sure why Enbridge thinks they can shut down Line 5 any sooner that that.  Took them much longer than 2 hours to shut a smaller line down in Kalamazoo.  Like any big business they decided they had to 'study' the situation before shutting it down. 

https://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/news/2018/09/10/pipeline-blast-fire-leads-to-evacuations-in-beaver.html?ana=yahoo&yptr=yahoo (https://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/news/2018/09/10/pipeline-blast-fire-leads-to-evacuations-in-beaver.html?ana=yahoo&yptr=yahoo)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on September 10, 2018, 12:32:42 PM
Even if you could instantly shut the valves at both ends of Line 5 off, all the product in the pipes would still leak out and pollute the Straits.  What people don't take into account.  There is a lot of product in the pipes at any one time and it's all pollution worthy.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on September 10, 2018, 12:33:39 PM
To shut down the pipe line it would take a decision by Michigan politicians.  Anyone think that's going to happen.

Of course not.  Just like the no fault insurance and MCCA.  Money always talks first in Lansing.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on September 12, 2018, 09:03:32 PM
Apparently it wasn't a good day for pipelines.  This was the same day as the natural gas pipeline rupture and explosion out in Pennsylvania! 

This is a Buckeye line and may be one of a few that runs across Monroe County.  If you keep your eyes open you realize there are pipelines throughout the country as they make the big turn skirting Lake Erie.

https://www.ecowatch.com/pipeline-spill-indiana-river-2603647566.html (https://www.ecowatch.com/pipeline-spill-indiana-river-2603647566.html)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on September 21, 2018, 06:45:58 AM
Sounds like we may be keeping an eye on these 'old' pipes another 10 years or so.  I'm wondering how much this tunnel will end up costing the taxpayers before it's over.  I'm guessing the money would rebuild a lot of roads and sewers across the state!!! 

https://www.uppermichiganssource.com/content/news/Concern-and-anticipation-surround-possible-Line-5-Pipeline-Tunnel-Proposal--493882481.html (https://www.uppermichiganssource.com/content/news/Concern-and-anticipation-surround-possible-Line-5-Pipeline-Tunnel-Proposal--493882481.html)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on September 21, 2018, 05:25:24 PM
I'm for just shutting line 5 down and scrapping the pipe.  We all know who will pay for a tunnel and it ain't Enbridge.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: BigRedDog on September 24, 2018, 11:03:01 AM
This article is of the opinion that the USofA is "awash" in oil...

so why is Snyder so intent on helping Canada push their oil across out waterways and lands?  Let them just purchase what they need from the US production sites and shut down Line 5.  If they really, really need it they can build a pipeline around the great lakes and hopefully when their pipes leak it will only pollute their own back yards!!!

https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/09/22/pipeline-companies-are-racing-to-solve-this-100-mi.aspx (https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/09/22/pipeline-companies-are-racing-to-solve-this-100-mi.aspx)
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on September 24, 2018, 04:13:04 PM
Maybe because the nerd is getting greased by the oil lobby here in Michigan....  Seems as though money talks and voters and Michiganders walk in this state.  Loomkat Randy Richardville as an example.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on October 25, 2018, 10:11:25 AM
I see Snyder reached a 'closed door' deal with Enbridge concerning the Line 5 fiasco.  Enbridge is to build out, over the next 10 years at a cost of 50 million, a tunnel under the straits to carry a newly constructed Line 5.  It will be 100 feet below the bed of the Straits and large enough to drive a vehicle through for inspection.  Enbridge plans to offset the cost by 'leasing' the space to other utilities so they can receive rent payments.

My issue with it is, Line 5 stays in operation, unabated, for the next decade while the tunnel and new pipeline is constructed.

Enbridge stated that no tax dollars will be used for construction.  I also have an issue with that.  In as much as the State of Michigan receives no compensation from Line 5 whatsoever and all the crude from Line 5 goes to Sarnia, Ontario for Canadian consumption, not domestic consumption, I think Enbridge should be paying rent on the ground the pipeline takes up, based on gallons of flow per day.

They are getting a helluva deal right now and what happens if Line 5 pops it's cork in the next decade?

Issues to ponder.

Of course not a word about it in the Monroe News.  It was however, in the Toledo Blade on the front page on Tuesday.

I sometimes wonder about the level of professionalism at the MN.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on October 26, 2018, 08:39:30 AM
Interesting that there is no comment.  I'd say that besides the poor choice for governor this election, Line 5 is the hot subject....
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: blue2 on October 26, 2018, 09:56:36 AM
I don't think most people care about line 5 or even know what it is
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on October 26, 2018, 11:40:43 AM
People in Michigan especially need to be aware of the implications of a Line 5 rupture.  If it lets go, the entire upper lakes will be impacted, including any drinking water coming from the lakes.

I was very surprised that the MN never put anything in the paper concerning it.  The Blade had it on the front page...
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on November 25, 2018, 06:54:42 PM
Snider is attempting to fast track the agreement so Whitmer is powerless to circumvent it. 

While I didn't vote for her, she is totally against the tunnel and wants line 5 shut down forever.  Her attorney General elect is also against it>  Snyder is trying to finalize the agreement before he leaves office.  Sneaky bastard.  They want the bridge authority to manage and oversee the tunnel and I read the Bridge Authority don't want to do it because it will tax their manpower.

I really hope that Snider don't finalize the agreement so Whitmer can get Enbridge and Line 5 out of Michigan.  Bad del all around.  One has to wonder how much Snyder is getting greased from the oil lobby and Enbridge.  Snyder and his 'dark money.

My opinion of Snyder has changed radically.  The 'nerd' turned into a 'turd'.
Title: Re: Why Michigan won't shut down the Mackinac straits oil pipeline
Post by: SidecarFlip on November 25, 2018, 06:57:38 PM
I don't think most people care about line 5 or even know what it is

and when it pukes they all will be scratching their butts and wondering how the government will handle it.  Meanwhile toe lake shore will turn into a black gooey mess.

The pipeline was put into operation in 1953.  I'd say it's outlived it's useful life and the State has gotten ZERO in revenue from it.