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Categories => Politics and Government => Topic started by: nails on July 07, 2017, 06:04:04 PM

Title: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: nails on July 07, 2017, 06:04:04 PM
I see we just got another $10 raise to the MCCA insurance supplement. Only in Michigan can we have an organization with over $14,000,000,000.00 in reserve funds, and still need to raise more money. Yes, that was $14 Billion and it was from 2012 figures. Even if they only get 4% interest, thats over $5,600,000. annually from interest alone.

http://detroit.legalexaminer.com/automobile-accidents/michigan-catastrophic-claims-fund-has-billions-in-reserves/ (http://detroit.legalexaminer.com/automobile-accidents/michigan-catastrophic-claims-fund-has-billions-in-reserves/)

And to top it off, they are more secretive than the Russians. They are also protected from having to disclose their financial books to the public. FOIA doesn't apply. We have no way of knowing how they calculate these rates.  If they're a public group, we should know what we are required to be paying for. If they're a private group, why do we have to subsidize the mega-profitable insurance companies.

Anyone else see anything wrong with this?
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on July 07, 2017, 06:42:50 PM
Our lawmakers are failing us.  They force us to pay into the fund. The fund manager should be accountable..
Lawmakers should eliminate this scam..
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: BigRedDog on July 07, 2017, 07:47:23 PM
I suspect this latest 'raise' is an 'in your face' bit of revenge for them having to continue to do all the lobbying and 'work' to keep all of their information 'secret' over the last few years. 

This is a situation where you need to talk to your legislator...  we all have to do it until we can get enough of them to agree to reverse the current protection that the MCCA is receiving from those very same legislators :( :( :(  I'm guessing nothing will ever change until there is a ballot initiative / referendum from the voters.  This is certainly one of the biggest reasons I've seen lately for going to a part time legislature...

the less time they're there the less damage they can do to their constituents >:( >:( >:(

https://ballotpedia.org/Michigan_2016_ballot_measures
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Monroe Native on July 07, 2017, 09:57:49 PM
I think they want to get it up to 20 or 30 billion in reserves....  and then the State will do away with No Fault and pocket the money into the General Fund somehow.

Maybe this is how they plan on fixing the Pension mess at the State level.

The Auto Insurance "Tax."
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on July 07, 2017, 10:15:16 PM
People, don't laugh at that.   The only reason it's still going is the legislature has its eyes on the fund.. They will take it and there isn't much we can do. Perhaps a law suit
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Professor H on July 08, 2017, 06:49:13 AM
I wish the legislature would grow a pair...   it seems 14 Billion buys a lot of votes
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: BigRedDog on July 08, 2017, 09:53:29 AM
People, don't laugh at that.   The only reason it's still going is the legislature has its eyes on the fund.. They will take it and there isn't much we can do. Perhaps a law suit

I'm not attorney enough to know if it would be possible for the state to take the money back.  When the legislature (of many years ago) created the MCCA I don't know if there is any provision for dissolving it in the future (now) and if so what would happen to the current slush fund. 

The legislature can maybe change the no fault law but not sure what would happen with the MCCA. 

My guess is back when it was created they weren't looking forward enough to be dissolving it.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Professor H on July 08, 2017, 02:46:46 PM
With free healthcare for all on the horizon - it's not a necessity anymore.   Pre-existing conditions - no problem...   

Problem is its a cash cow for the healthcare industry - as they pay whatever price is charged!  No deals or negotiated savings from them...     that $30k write down for BCBS  -   Nope - they are willing and happy to pay whatever the bill is... 

Hey its only taxpayer money - why does anyone need to know what they are doing with it  8*
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Monroe Native on July 08, 2017, 05:17:19 PM
No fault insurance is a shining example of how the Government creates market distortions which cost the consumer money in both what they are forced to purchase and how it is delivered.

We are the only state that has an "unlimited" medical coverage - and one that is "mandatory. 

Everytime they talk about getting rid of it the lawyers, hospitals, lobbyists of all types line up to make sure that cash cow doesn't go away.

The second distortion is how the tell us this service "must" be delivered to us.  Can we go chose a company to buy an unlimited policy from?  Have all the companies compete together on who can deliver this level of service the cheapest?  Heck no!

The government decided THEY could do it best - and they would just demand whatever amount of money the actuaries said from all of US to make that happen.  Isn't that nice?  There goes the ability of me to find a company that can negotiate a better rate with providers.  Nope - I am held hostage to who can pay the biggest bribe to corrupt the lawmakers to keep this little scam alive.

You can't tell me that at a bare minimum they can't tie the compensation to the providers to the Workmen Comp tables?  What BCBS negotiates for the same procedures?  Something other than full price?

How about charging a fee for how many licensed drivers are on a policy - not how many vehicles are on it?  I mean - you can only drive one car at a time.....  just saying.  My company gives me a pretty hefty price break for that "pleasure" car.  Does the Surcharge go down for the pleasure car?  Nope.  Not at all.  It is full price here in the Motor Car state.

What a joke. 
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Professor H on July 09, 2017, 03:43:18 PM
What I find interesting on the whole set up, is that no attorney has been able to crack the privacy of public funds... 

It should be a class project for any Michigan Law school... 
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on July 09, 2017, 04:07:01 PM
About the only way it's going to be opened up or eliminated is for citizens to harass their representatives.  But we know that won't happen.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Monroe Native on July 09, 2017, 07:57:09 PM
What I find interesting on the whole set up, is that no attorney has been able to crack the privacy of public funds... 

It should be a class project for any Michigan Law school...

But it is a "Private" public corporation Prof.....

It has to be public so the State can steal the fund from the rate payers as soon as they decide to "fix" it.

It has to be private so no one can see what they are doing.

You gotta love it.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Professor H on July 10, 2017, 12:03:35 AM
I've read of the failed attempts to get them to open up the books... 

Wonder why no one ever challenged them on this aspect...   if they are going to pay whatever is charged in auto cases - and stick us with higher costs - why do they get to cut deals on other types of claims -  they should be forced to pay the entire bill on everything and then see how quickly the legislature fixes that error... 
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on July 10, 2017, 10:30:59 AM
And you have to wonder how many people in Detroit that don't even pay for car insurance are collecting big rewards.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: nails on July 10, 2017, 11:11:16 AM

And you have to wonder how many people in Detroit that don't even pay for car insurance are collecting big rewards.

That is a very scary question !

I can't see them changing any of this without a fight.
We are the ones paying whatever is asked.  And it's a law that we must pay to drive.

At what point do you think someone will say,
 "We have enough money from the insurance paying public, so we won't charge anymore."
They won't.

Think about this . . . they have over $14 Billion dollars in reserve, but they won't say how the formula is applied. And they still need more.

Something is smelling very bad here.

The more I think about it, the more pizzed I get.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Monroe Native on July 10, 2017, 05:44:08 PM
And you have to wonder how many people in Detroit that don't even pay for car insurance are collecting big rewards.

I know out of state people injured in the State are covered by it - even though their insurance policies didn't include it - and they didn't pay into the fund.

It's a kind of freebie for them.  Please come to Michigan and play our lifetime benefits if you get in a wreck lotto.

Why wouldn't people in Detroit who don't have insurance also be covered?
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on July 10, 2017, 07:31:00 PM
That's a fact.  A friend of mine who lives in Michigan but his son doesn't was injured a number of years ago.  He is A Okay now and working.  But besides the medical he was given he was awarded enough to buy a small farm outside of Toledo.  So i guess it pays more than medical.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Monroe Native on July 10, 2017, 08:51:16 PM
That's a fact.  A friend of mine who lives in Michigan but his son doesn't was injured a number of years ago.  He is A Okay now and working.  But besides the medical he was given he was awarded enough to buy a small farm outside of Toledo.  So i guess it pays more than medical.

Yep.  He won the Michigan Get in a Car Wreck Lotto - without even buying a ticket.

SWEEEEEET!
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Professor H on July 12, 2017, 07:24:20 PM
Yep.  He won the Michigan Get in a Car Wreck Lotto - without even buying a ticket.

SWEEEEEET!
I'll pass on that "win"...   

I just want the payments to be based on what other insurance policy holders get.   
Just think if they cut the payouts down %50 by negotiations...   that $20Billion slush fund would go much further!
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Monroe Native on July 12, 2017, 07:33:40 PM
I'll pass on that "win"...   

I just want the payments to be based on what other insurance policy holders get.   
Just think if they cut the payouts down %50 by negotiations...   that $20Billion slush fund would go much further!

I would just like to be able to go purchase the type of policy I want, with the coverage's I want, and not have to deal with a poorly run monopoly to get it.

Oh wait - the Michigan Legislature said I couldn't do that.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Professor H on July 14, 2017, 01:51:21 PM
Patrick M. McPharlin, Director
Department of Insurance and Financial Services
530 W. Allegan Street – 7 th Floor P.O. Box 30220
Lansing, Michigan 48909-7720

Cc:  Sen Zorn, Rep Bellino, Rep Sheppard, Gov Snyder

As an auto policy holder – I’m questioning the fiduciary practice of the MCCA organization under 500.008 4 a  duty to policy holders   as well as   500.3104  8 e    contract for for goods and services – including independent claims management to assure the efficient operation of the association. 
1.    Is the current established pay rates from the MCCA based on any coexisting rates from the individual members?     To clarify the question  I’m asking if they pay 100% of the billable amounts.   If so why isn’t it prudent to use the negotiated rates from individual board member companies like BCBS and save the taxpayers in premium costs for such claims?                                                                                                                   
2.   What role does the Director have to ensure that policy holders are given a fair cost basis for insurances they are forced to subsidize or buy.
3.   Did the legislation intend to force taxpayers to pay higher (non-negotiated) rates for services provided under the MCCA than what is typically paid under most other plans?  Or did fiduciary responsibility to the individual auto policy holders (and taxpayers)  get lost in the formation of a private organization of insurers?




Professor H
Monroe MI 48161   
     
Attachment – excerpts from legislation

References from the legislation attached – I’m not a lawyer just a retired citizen with a question that seems unanswered from any reading I’ve been able to find on the subject.
500.3104 Catastrophic claims association

7. 
(g) Establish procedures for reviewing claims procedures and practices of members of the association. If the claims procedures or practices of a member are considered inadequate to properly service the liabilities of the association, the association may undertake or may contract with another person, including another member, to adjust or assist in the adjustment of claims for the member on claims that create a potential liability to the association and may charge the cost of the adjustment to the member

8. 
(d) Pursuant to the plan of operation, adopt reasonable rules for the administration of the association, enforce those rules, and delegate authority, as the board considers necessary to assure the proper administration and operation of the association consistent with the plan of operation.
(e) Contract for goods and services, including independent claims management, actuarial, investment, and legal services, from others within or without this state to assure the efficient operation of the association.
(f) Hear and determine complaints of a company or other interested party concerning the operation of the association.
(g) Perform other acts not specifically enumerated in this section that are necessary or proper to accomplish the purposes of the association and that are not inconsistent with this section or the plan of operation.
(9) A board of directors is created, hereinafter referred to as the board, which shall be responsible for the operation of the association consistent with the plan of operation and this section.

From the section 50 the legislature put this organization under:
Section 500.5008
(4) The articles of incorporation may contain a provision providing that a director is not personally liable to the corporation or its shareholders or policyholders for monetary damages for a breach of the director's fiduciary duty. However, the provision does not eliminate or limit the liability of a director for any of the following:
(a) A breach of the director's duty of loyalty to the corporation or its shareholders or policyholders.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Professor H on July 14, 2017, 01:52:00 PM
Think I'll get a response?   :)
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Maverick on July 14, 2017, 02:24:12 PM
I guarantee that you will get some response. Probably a form letter that restates some position that someone too at one point and thanks you for reaching out.

Personal response ??  Probably not
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: The Fuzz on July 15, 2017, 07:46:29 AM
I agree, Mav.

Nicely put together Prof, I hope you get a rationale response to share.

You should have complained about the cost to insure the White Lincoln though.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: BigRedDog on July 15, 2017, 12:19:33 PM
Good job Professor H...

I send a 'lot' of communications to state and federal legislators although usually at the point that it is in discussion for passing as new or a modification to an existing bill.

The 'typical' reply I get is something about thanking me for passing my thoughts along and that they will certainly keep my thoughts in mind when the legislation is on the floor for debate!!!

I'm not aware of anything on the floor about this right now although there is lots and lots of talk about getting it to the floor for discussion...

I'll be anxiously awaiting your reply (replies) ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Professor H on July 27, 2017, 08:27:31 AM
Well it wasn't a form letter - here's the Insurance division response:

No "internal costs controls" is the eye opener  - and they hang their hat on the fact that reasonable isn't defined in the code. 

Sounds like a new direction for the legislature requests in the future - since they won't get rid of this beast maybe they can tame it. 
=========================================================================
Thank you for contacting the Department of Insurance and Financial Services (DIFS).  Your inquiry regarding the MCCA has been forwarded to me for response.
 
Under Michigan’s no-fault law, Personal Injury Protection (PIP) benefits cover all reasonable charges incurred for reasonably necessary products, services and accommodations for an injured person’s care, recovery, or rehabilitation.  The automobile insurer only owes what is determined to be a reasonable and customary amount for the medical services provided; reasonable and necessary are not defined in the Insurance Code.  Unlike health insurance benefits, PIP benefits contain no internal cost controls.
 
The MCCA files financial statements with the DIFS Director and has independent audits done annually.  In addition, they are subject to audit by the DIFS Director.  According to information provided in the 2016 Annual Report to the Director, the MCCA’s Total Assets as of 6/30/16 were over $18.5 billion, and Total Liabilities were over $20.2 billion, resulting in a Total Deficit exceeding $1.7 billion.  MCCA’s Annual Statements, Audit Reports, and Plan of Operation are available on the MCCA’s website at www.michigancatastrophic.com (http://www.michigancatastrophic.com).
 
We hope this information is helpful.  Please feel free to contact our office if you have any further questions.
 
 
Audrey Feldpausch, Analyst
Department of Insurance and Financial Services
Office of Consumer Services
530 W. Allegan Str., 7th Floor, Lansing, MI  48933-1521
Toll free:  877-999-6442
Fax Number:  517-284-8837
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on July 27, 2017, 10:08:57 AM
"benefits cover all reasonable charges incurred for reasonably necessary products, services and accommodations for an injured person’s care, recovery, or rehabilitation"

apparently accommodations is a very key word in that statement.
Because the friend i know of has a son that was able to collect $300,000 over and above all medical expenses.
So apparently the fund determines how much of a payout a victim may walk away with.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Monroe Native on July 27, 2017, 06:32:40 PM
I've had people come over to look at the rental house that were living in hotels because of an "accident."

They claimed they needed a one floor arrangement.

I told them this wasn't a one floor house, and you had to go up steps to get into it.

They insisted on looking at it.

They got there, and said nope - this isn't going to work.  They didn't even go in - noting it had stairs to get into the house - which I had told them on the phone.

They then asked - Will you please sign this form that we tried to find some place else cheaper to stay?

I said nope, and thanks for wasting my time a hole.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Professor H on July 28, 2017, 08:54:16 AM
If we could get that 18 Billion to stretch out a little more by cutting the payouts by even 30 percent just think of what you'd save!      5.4 Billion!       But it appears the lobbyist have ensured the politicians won't be fiscally responsible with our premium tax! 
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: nails on July 28, 2017, 01:13:56 PM
If we could get that 18 Billion to stretch out a little more by cutting the payouts by even 30 percent just think of what you'd save!      $5.4 Billion!     
But it appears the lobbyist have ensured the politicians won't be fiscally responsible with our premium tax!

Quoting Gomer Pyle.   " Surprise . . . Surprise . . . Surprise "

And just when have you seen an example of politicians being fiscally responsible with OUR  tax dollars if it didn't benefit them directly.

Here's another recommendation for the swamp clearing project.
Outlaw the current system of lobbyist.



Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Professor H on August 02, 2017, 09:22:57 AM
I've been waiting for the response from the elected politicians... I guess they are speechless to defend the lack of fiscal accountablility
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: BigRedDog on October 16, 2017, 07:29:14 PM
At this point it's not looking real positive that we're going to see any real reduction in our auto insurance anytime soon :( :( :(

http://www.ourmidland.com/news/article/Bill-to-reduce-Michigan-auto-insurance-premiums-12277836.php (http://www.ourmidland.com/news/article/Bill-to-reduce-Michigan-auto-insurance-premiums-12277836.php)
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Professor H on October 19, 2017, 08:03:41 AM
At this point it's not looking real positive that we're going to see any real reduction in our auto insurance anytime soon :( :( :(

[url]http://www.ourmidland.com/news/article/Bill-to-reduce-Michigan-auto-insurance-premiums-12277836.php[/url] ([url]http://www.ourmidland.com/news/article/Bill-to-reduce-Michigan-auto-insurance-premiums-12277836.php[/url])


I think their target it to get 30 billion in the bank first...  then maybe they'll consider things like negotiate medical pricing and save us a dollar.

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/WAZSjpAL884/maxresdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on October 19, 2017, 09:27:57 AM
The whole automobile medical insurance racket needs to be eliminated and accountability established for what is in the fund now. 
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Monroe Native on October 20, 2017, 06:42:00 PM
At this point it's not looking real positive that we're going to see any real reduction in our auto insurance anytime soon :( :( :(

[url]http://www.ourmidland.com/news/article/Bill-to-reduce-Michigan-auto-insurance-premiums-12277836.php[/url] ([url]http://www.ourmidland.com/news/article/Bill-to-reduce-Michigan-auto-insurance-premiums-12277836.php[/url])


No kidding.

I see all the medical concerns have been running ads to convince us that paying top top top dollar is the only way to go.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on October 20, 2017, 10:18:47 PM
And all the other states have the opposite opinion..
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: BigRedDog on October 21, 2017, 09:57:00 AM
No kidding.

I see all the medical concerns have been running ads to convince us that paying top top top dollar is the only way to go.


Well just 'who' would know what is better for you than some 'medical concern'...

I'm sure they're all about healthy people and none of them are even thinking about future profits 8* 8* 8*

Remember Allstate's long running ad campaign:

(http://www.theboulderagency.com/personification_good_hands-640.jpg)


We've never had Allstate insurance...   I remember when they used to be part of Sears and Bof***...

actually went in one day to their office in the local Sears store...   about 7 or 8 people in line ahead of us so we all got to talking.  One other couple was there looking to switch and the rest were there to complain.  Most common complaint was within 6 months of them switching for the 'lower' rates they found their rates 'jacked' up to more than they were paying at their former company.  We left!!!!!!!

We didn't ever switch agents (still have the same agent my wife had when she was 16 years old although they have switched us from one company to another along the way (independent agent makes sense to me).

Anyway, and yes, I know I've already posted about this once or maybe even twice.  When I was in Florida right after the hurricane hit I saw the Allstate disaster team before I saw any other really visible response.  They had a huge motorhome towing a large generator with a satellite dish mounted right on top.  They were set up in the mall across the corner from us.  Always lots of people milling around every time I went by although I did eventually figure out some of those were people that were just charging their phones.  They also had about 6 porta johns set up behind the generator.  I started wondering if they bring them along of if the porta john business is that flexible to just be able to bring in johns right after a hurricane?  Why didn't the johns all blow away?

Anyway, Allstate eventually parted ways with Sears and I actually got to be pretty good friends with a couple of the local agents (Monroe and Temperance). 

Even though the adjuster was at our place on a Sunday morning right after I left we still haven't heard back from them.  At this point we're planning on just repairing and then selling.  Looking more and more like that's going to be my 'winter' project.  Our insurance is up for renewal sometime in November so I will at least be talking with the local Allstate agent down there!

Our current insurance is from an independent that is literally within walking distance.  Our youngest daughter had stopped to find out about filing a claim and they literally told her that it would be a few days.  Their roof was damaged in the storm and they 'had to' get their roof fixed first before they could start processing claim applications.  I'm guessing that is part of what is taking so long :( :( :(
Title: How Michigan's auto insurance premiums became the highest in the country
Post by: BigRedDog on October 30, 2017, 09:00:51 PM
Very interesting article which appears to be straightforward and unbiased:

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20171022/news/642726/how-michigans-auto-insurance-premiums-became-the-highest-in-the-country?ito=939&itq=e75faa3a-da5b-4c1c-aa81-8fdf9c359202&itx%5Bidio%5D=1776004 (http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20171022/news/642726/how-michigans-auto-insurance-premiums-became-the-highest-in-the-country?ito=939&itq=e75faa3a-da5b-4c1c-aa81-8fdf9c359202&itx%5Bidio%5D=1776004)
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Professor H on November 01, 2017, 10:16:06 AM
Very interesting article which appears to be straightforward and unbiased:

[url]http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20171022/news/642726/how-michigans-auto-insurance-premiums-became-the-highest-in-the-country?ito=939&itq=e75faa3a-da5b-4c1c-aa81-8fdf9c359202&itx%5Bidio%5D=1776004[/url] ([url]http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20171022/news/642726/how-michigans-auto-insurance-premiums-became-the-highest-in-the-country?ito=939&itq=e75faa3a-da5b-4c1c-aa81-8fdf9c359202&itx%5Bidio%5D=1776004[/url])


And they shrug their shoulders in our State Legislation...     It will likely take a statewide Proposal to get action!
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: BigRedDog on November 02, 2017, 09:22:49 AM
And they shrug their shoulders in our State Legislation...     It will likely take a statewide Proposal to get action!

I thought there was a proposal going at one time.  I signed several petitions on Labor Day at the end of the bridge walk. 
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on November 02, 2017, 11:28:59 AM
I'm guessing the opoid crisis is requiring all their time..It's the PC thing to do
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: BigRedDog on November 03, 2017, 09:18:44 AM
I'm guessing the opoid crisis is requiring all their time..It's the PC thing to do


Oh, they've been working on it...  they're just not getting anywhere!

Quote
"I would put the blame on the people who are making tens of millions of dollars gouging Michigan consumers," Duggan said. "And they got too many votes on both sides of the aisle, as they have, and we need to come back with a new strategy and a new approach."


http://www.ourmidland.com/news/article/House-bid-intensifies-to-reduce-auto-insurance-12327160.php (http://www.ourmidland.com/news/article/House-bid-intensifies-to-reduce-auto-insurance-12327160.php)
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on November 03, 2017, 10:13:52 AM
They just need to eliminate it..The 10 or 20 billion in the fund should take care of all the people that have been promised a big payout..  And while they are at it they need to eliminate full time legislatures.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Monroe Native on November 03, 2017, 10:40:19 AM
They at least need to establish a price schedule comparable to payouts from health insurance companies for the same services.

That is kind of the biggest indicator that they are all bought and paid off.

They wont even do the simple thing - so we all pay top dollar for all the services performed.

Crazy.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on November 03, 2017, 10:45:04 AM
And i have auto insurance and health insurance but i have to pay a few hunderd dollars a year into this slush fund.  I have to wonder what this fund is supporting and who is borrowing the money.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Monroe Native on November 03, 2017, 01:29:09 PM
And i have auto insurance and health insurance but i have to pay a few hunderd dollars a year into this slush fund.  I have to wonder what this fund is supporting and who is borrowing the money.

And that "contribution" to the slush fund isn't by the number of licensed drivers....  it is by the number of vehicles insured - and every vehicle costs the same.

Do they take into account your driving record and how many claims you have made?

Nope - you pay as if you are the worst driver on the road - for every vehicle insured.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on November 03, 2017, 03:21:15 PM
And the amount goes up about every year.  And the slush fund keeps growing so we hear. But we'll never know because there is no accountability for our money
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: nails on November 03, 2017, 04:15:45 PM


  You know . . . $ 18,500,000,000.00 is a lot of money.

  If they only got 4% return on that amount, that's $740,000,000.00 a year.
  Wonder how much they spend on claims annually.

Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on November 03, 2017, 05:15:02 PM
Hopefully not that much...somebody has to break this thing open. I imagine with all the cooruption they are afraid to.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: BigRedDog on February 08, 2018, 02:24:40 PM
So, if Michigan ends up going back to the 'old' form of insurance what will happen to all the money left in the MCCA's coffers?

http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2018/02/michigans_no-fault_auto_insura.html#incart_2box_mlive_homepage_featured_entries (http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2018/02/michigans_no-fault_auto_insura.html#incart_2box_mlive_homepage_featured_entries)
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Monroe Native on February 08, 2018, 08:20:23 PM
So, if Michigan ends up going back to the 'old' form of insurance what will happen to all the money left in the MCCA's coffers?

[url]http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2018/02/michigans_no-fault_auto_insura.html#incart_2box_mlive_homepage_featured_entries[/url] ([url]http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2018/02/michigans_no-fault_auto_insura.html#incart_2box_mlive_homepage_featured_entries[/url])


I would say the State Employee Pension fund would get a giant bailout.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Professor H on February 10, 2018, 10:52:03 AM
We can only hope! 

It was interesting that no other state followed the Michigan model!     
Some have lesser versions of no fault - and those who dropped this saw relief of 30-40%

The idea that a private fund paid for by forced payments is not under any cost controls has always been the major issue.

Lobbyist will likely kill this attempt as the medical community loves getting 100% of what they ask for!
No attempt at negotiations ever.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on February 10, 2018, 10:59:34 AM
Our politicians working for us
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Professor H on February 12, 2018, 09:26:13 AM

  You know . . . $ 18,500,000,000.00 is a lot of money.

  If they only got 4% return on that amount, that's $740,000,000.00 a year.
  Wonder how much they spend on claims annually.



If they only asked for the same rates that others have negotiated - like Workers Comp...   it would slash costs by a lot and make that 18billion go much further! 

Legislature is pretty stupid on this issue.

Its going to take a petition initiative.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on February 12, 2018, 09:38:53 AM
Read somewhere yesterday that Sheppard is pushing to eliminate this scam.  But like you say it will take a petition to get it on the ballot because politicians will box him in with threats
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Professor H on February 12, 2018, 11:14:31 AM
http://www.michigancatastrophic.com/Portals/71/Annual%20Statement%20FYE%20June2017%20Final_Summary.pdf (http://www.michigancatastrophic.com/Portals/71/Annual%20Statement%20FYE%20June2017%20Final_Summary.pdf)

I see its assets are 19.6 billion this year!  Poor fund is almost dead broke...
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: BigRedDog on March 29, 2018, 07:10:40 PM
[url]http://www.michigancatastrophic.com/Portals/71/Annual%20Statement%20FYE%20June2017%20Final_Summary.pdf[/url] ([url]http://www.michigancatastrophic.com/Portals/71/Annual%20Statement%20FYE%20June2017%20Final_Summary.pdf[/url])

I see its assets are 19.6 billion this year!  Poor fund is almost dead broke...


So broke that they're raising your contribution starting in July!!!

http://www.wtol.com/story/37840975/michigan-auto-fee-rising-to-192-per-vehicle-in-july (http://www.wtol.com/story/37840975/michigan-auto-fee-rising-to-192-per-vehicle-in-july)
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on March 30, 2018, 09:23:56 AM
22 % increase.  It was insane before, now it's past insane.  Soon the MCCA addendum will cost more than the actual coverage will.

Way past time for the state to either abolish the fund or make it discretionary where people can choose to participate or not or pick their level of coverage.

Living 15 miles north of Ohio where there is no MCCA really hurts.

Far as I'm concerned, between Snyder taxing my 401 withdrawls and the MCCA, if I could, I'd sell out and move 15 miles south to a 'sane' state.

MCCA especially is a stupid mandatory imposed burden on Michiganders.

It's bullshitte.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: BigRedDog on March 30, 2018, 09:40:36 AM
22 % increase.  It was insane before, now it's past insane.  Soon the MCCA addendum will cost more than the actual coverage will.

Way past time for the state to either abolish the fund or make it discretionary where people can choose to participate or not or pick their level of coverage.

Living 15 miles north of Ohio where there is no MCCA really hurts.

Far as I'm concerned, between Snyder taxing my 401 withdrawls and the MCCA, if I could, I'd sell out and move 15 miles south to a 'sane' state.

MCCA especially is a stupid mandatory imposed burden on Michiganders.

It's bullshitte.

Again...

time for a 'part time' legislature!!!   This, by itself, is enough reason.  They've been 'working on it' for years...

I've asked my rep what is going on and all I ever get is a smile and a "thanks for your interest" and followed up by a "we're working on it"!!!!
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on March 30, 2018, 09:54:41 AM
It's never been more obvious to people what politicians do and how they treat us after watching the fiasco in DC with all the republican/democrat crimiinals and how they string out the investigations.
State and local politicians aren't any different.
How much more are the citizens going to take?
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on March 30, 2018, 02:59:41 PM
Maybe it's time for a ballot initiative pertaining to the MCCA.  I would imagine you'd need around 250,000 registered voter's signatures to get it on the ballot and of course approved by the Board of Canvassers language.

I'd love to have it on the ballot for voters to approve or not approve.  I have a feeling that it would be approved hands down.  I don't know of anyone who isn't dismayed with MCCA.  The Michigan slush fund orchestrated by lame politicians.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on March 30, 2018, 03:35:46 PM
Have to believe the politicians are somehow borrowing from that fund..
With a $10 Billion surplus how could you ask for a increase
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: BigRedDog on March 30, 2018, 05:30:19 PM
Have to believe the politicians are somehow borrowing from that fund..
With a $10 Billion surplus how could you ask for a increase

There has to be something that the taxpayers have not been told...

this is just taking way, way, way too long!
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Monroe Native on March 30, 2018, 09:10:12 PM
They need to pad the fund balance some more before they steal it away with their No Fault reform.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on March 30, 2018, 09:36:29 PM
They need to pad the fund balance some more before they steal it away with their No Fault reform.

Considering our state government I doubt nothing.  Hell, we have more money in that fund than the Fed has.  Something is extremely fishy.

I'm really sick and tired of paying it with no choice.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Monroe Native on March 30, 2018, 10:12:03 PM
I'm really sick and tired of paying it with no choice.

Do you really think you are smart enough to purchase whatever insurance coverage you think you may need to operate a motor vehicle without someone from Lansing telling you what you need?
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on March 30, 2018, 10:12:40 PM
And it seems to pay medical and lost wages. Well I have medical and I don't receive wages anymore. Why should I be paying?
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Professor H on March 31, 2018, 08:33:58 AM
There has to be something that the taxpayers have not been told...

this is just taking way, way, way too long!
I can't get anyone to answer questions...     

Its about fiscal responsibility for taxpayer money - and no one will even consider that!
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on March 31, 2018, 08:42:43 AM
The bottom line here is:

Whining will do nothing.  Until there is a grass roots action aimed at placing a ballot initative on the ballot and passing it and forcing the dead wood legislature to adopt it (abolishment of the MCCA and a refund to insured's of all funds (wouldn't that be peachy), nothing will change.

Reason why is the board members (MCCA) for the most part are the actual insurance companies. a ponzi scheme and why wouldn't those member companies want to mitigate their losses and stay profitable.  It's the old vote yourself a raise philosophy... and I bet there is an intense amount of lobbying and financial incentive coming from those 'members' to sway our not so upstanding elected officials to quash any introduced legislation....  (just what happened to Jason. bill.

The only way, I emphasize ONLY WAY this MCCA thing gets fixed ince and for all is a ballot inititative.  After a popular vote and passage, they are bound by law to fix it.  No choice.

Whining will do NOTHING except make you feel good but you wallet will keep getting lighter. ;D
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on March 31, 2018, 08:43:24 AM
I can't get anyone to answer questions...     

Its about fiscal responsibility for taxpayer money - and no one will even consider that!

Since when has Lansing been fiscally responsible?  Inquiring minds want to know.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Professor H on March 31, 2018, 09:02:34 AM
Maybe it's time for a ballot initiative pertaining to the MCCA.  I would imagine you'd need around 250,000 registered voter's signatures to get it on the ballot and of course approved by the Board of Canvassers language.

I'd love to have it on the ballot for voters to approve or not approve.  I have a feeling that it would be approved hands down.  I don't know of anyone who isn't dismayed with MCCA.  The Michigan slush fund orchestrated by lame politicians.
it would take an organization willing to stand up to the Hospitals and medical community as they are the beneficiaries of this slush fund and would spend millions to preserve their billions!   

Sign me up
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: BigRedDog on March 31, 2018, 09:04:50 AM
The bottom line here is:

Whining will do nothing.  Until there is a grass roots action aimed at placing a ballot initative on the ballot and passing it and forcing the dead wood legislature to adopt it (abolishment of the MCCA and a refund to insured's of all funds (wouldn't that be peachy), nothing will change.

Reason why is the board members (MCCA) for the most part are the actual insurance companies. a ponzi scheme and why wouldn't those member companies want to mitigate their losses and stay profitable.  It's the old vote yourself a raise philosophy... and I bet there is an intense amount of lobbying and financial incentive coming from those 'members' to sway our not so upstanding elected officials to quash any introduced legislation....  (just what happened to Jason. bill.

The only way, I emphasize ONLY WAY this MCCA thing gets fixed ince and for all is a ballot inititative.  After a popular vote and passage, they are bound by law to fix it.  No choice.

Whining will do NOTHING except make you feel good but you wallet will keep getting lighter. ;D

We may eventually see a repeal of the current insurance model but I doubt we'll ever see any refunds from the fund. 

I'm like blue2...

someone has had their hands in that very deep cookie jar and even putting an end to the current insurance model is going to end up exposing the 'cookie monster'! 

Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: BigRedDog on March 31, 2018, 09:16:29 AM
22 % increase.  It was insane before, now it's past insane.  Soon the MCCA addendum will cost more than the actual coverage will.

Way past time for the state to either abolish the fund or make it discretionary where people can choose to participate or not or pick their level of coverage.

Living 15 miles north of Ohio where there is no MCCA really hurts.

Far as I'm concerned, between Snyder taxing my 401 withdrawls and the MCCA, if I could, I'd sell out and move 15 miles south to a 'sane' state.

MCCA especially is a stupid mandatory imposed burden on Michiganders.

It's bullshitte.

There's lots of discussion on several of the RV forums about people who want to live in their RV year around and just travel but still needing to have a declared 'domicile'.    Many suggest some of the western states.  Seems like North Dakota or Montana was the one that seemed to work the best for many people. 

Low taxes, very low auto insurance and they make it easy for you to 'reside' in your mail drop box. 

You'd probably have to transfer your real estate in Michigan to a family trust or something similar. 
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on March 31, 2018, 09:28:06 AM
Why would you 'cease and desist' Why not take responsibility for the inaction of the legislature and force them to abolish are revamp the MCCA?

Kind of goes back to the 'I'm not responsible' attitude that is rampant in this country today....

MCCA is a ponzi scheme perpetrated on the citizens of Michigan with no choice and that certainly isn't how things are supposed to work in a Democracy.

Jason Sheppard tried and his bill was defeated.  Why?  Because our 'elected' officials were swayed by lobbying.  Anyone with half a brain can see that.

Lansing isn't fiscally responsible, good example is the new 'Randy Richardville' office building.  They really needed that didn't they?

Bottom line is, MCCA is bullshitte.  All it accomplishes is it makes auto insurance unaffordable for many citizens, forces those who can afford it to bear the burden of it and enriches a select group of insurance carriers.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on March 31, 2018, 09:35:17 AM
I have no desire to live in a RV full time (we own one).  Having owned RV's for over 20 years now, let me tell you that living in an uninsulated shoe box isn't what it's cracked up to be and unless you 'camp' on BLM land with no conveniences, you'll pay a stiff campground fee for a space.  Nothing is free.

I'm sure you've watched the You-Tube video's of the 'nomadic life.  That isn't me or CL.  Might be you but I suggest a trial run before committing.  We know a few 'full timers' and it lasts a couple years and then they become 'rooted' again in a brick and mortar home.

The negatives outweigh the positives after a while.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on March 31, 2018, 09:40:27 AM
We may eventually see a repeal of the current insurance model but I doubt we'll ever see any refunds from the fund. 

I'm like blue2...

someone has had their hands in that very deep cookie jar and even putting an end to the current insurance model is going to end up exposing the 'cookie monster'!

I have a pretty good idea who that 'cookie monster' is.....  The very insurance carrier you pay your premiums to.

Keep in mind that there are only a select few companies licensed to provide insurance in Michigan.  Why?  Because the MCCA board dictates who can and who can't partake in the bounty that we pay in MCCA fees.  You don't want to spread that bounty too thin.

Why Sheppard's bill was trounced.  Leveraged out of existence by 'massaged' legislators.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on March 31, 2018, 09:45:55 AM
As you can tell, this is a very sore point with me (as well as Snyder's money grab of my 401 withdrawls).  Both are bullshitte but the MCCA is far and above the worst offender.

If the state of Michigan actually practiced fiscal responsibility, we'd be driving on smooth roads and paying a lot less in taxes and forced mandates.

Michigan wants to attract new industry and citizens, but they sure don't act like it.  You cannot be growth orientated when you are fleecing your citizens constantly.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: BigRedDog on March 31, 2018, 09:55:54 AM
I have no desire to live in a RV full time (we own one).  Having owned RV's for over 20 years now, let me tell you that living in an uninsulated shoe box isn't what it's cracked up to be and unless you 'camp' on BLM land with no conveniences, you'll pay a stiff campground fee for a space.  Nothing is free.

I'm sure you've watched the You-Tube video's of the 'nomadic life.  That isn't me or CL.  Might be you but I suggest a trial run before committing.  We know a few 'full timers' and it lasts a couple years and then they become 'rooted' again in a brick and mortar home.

The negatives outweigh the positives after a while.

Where did you see anything I wrote about living in your RV year around?

I said that is the forum I saw it on.

I never suggested you had to actually go live in your RV.  Good that you should own one in case there was ever an audit (I've never heard of one but wouldn't want to be the first either). 

You would probably have to be able to show you have no domicile in Michigan (or any other state for that matter) and that you have established a domicile in your state of choice.  You have to get an address (mail drop box addresses work better in a few states than they do in most states) and register to vote!  You have to get a driver's license there and license your vehicles in that state and get auto insurance there. 

It would involve a trip to the state initially and then probably every few years. 

i'm not encouraging anyone to commit a fraud but if you think outside the box there are plenty of things you can do.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on March 31, 2018, 10:02:05 AM
Where did you see anything I wrote about living in your RV year around?

I said that is the forum I saw it on.

I never suggested you had to actually go live in your RV.  Good that you should own one in case there was ever an audit (I've never heard of one but wouldn't want to be the first either). 

You would probably have to be able to show you have no domicile in Michigan (or any other state for that matter) and that you have established a domicile in your state of choice.  You have to get an address (mail drop box addresses work better in a few states than they do in most states) and register to vote!  You have to get a driver's license there and license your vehicles in that state and get auto insurance there. 

It would involve a trip to the state initially and then probably every few years. 

i'm not encouraging anyone to commit a fraud but if you think outside the box there are plenty of things you can do.

You posted it, I didn't.  All I did was elaborate on it.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: BigRedDog on March 31, 2018, 01:18:56 PM
I have no desire to live in a RV full time (we own one).  Having owned RV's for over 20 years now, let me tell you that living in an uninsulated shoe box isn't what it's cracked up to be and unless you 'camp' on BLM land with no conveniences, you'll pay a stiff campground fee for a space.  Nothing is free.

I'm sure you've watched the You-Tube video's of the 'nomadic life.  That isn't me or CL. Might be you but I suggest a trial run before committing. We know a few 'full timers' and it lasts a couple years and then they become 'rooted' again in a brick and mortar home.

The negatives outweigh the positives after a while.

Why were you living in an "uninsulated shoe box"?

We've done several "trial runs" over the last 40 years or so...

our trailer has some insulation in it and if someone is so inclined they can get 'arctic' packages installed. 

Then the last several years we've done the 'stay the same place in Florida' every winter and we're tired of that now.

Our idea is to 'follow' the weather... 

head south until we find an area with decent temperature cycles and if that changes then move on to where it's acceptable again. 

The beauty of any RV is that you're not tied to anything or anywhere.  You're not always going to have perfect weather but you're not going to be that far away from some 'nice' weather either. 

Moving 300 miles in the 'right' direction can usually put you in a nicer weather pattern for at least several days.  I can make a 300 mile move in a day with no problem.  I can do more if I 'have' to but 300 miles still allows for time to pick up in the morning and set up in the afternoon. 
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: BigRedDog on March 31, 2018, 02:37:59 PM
You posted it, I didn't.  All I did was elaborate on it.

I "posted" about seeing 'choosing a state of domicile' on an RV forum and you went off on a tangent about us living in a icy box all winter...

You aren't happy with paying Michigan income tax and vehicle insurance. 

I was just trying to point out that there are certainly options and that I had seen a few states mentioned on an RV Forum...

but you came back with something about freezing in a box!!!

I think you really had to put the 'stretcher' on to 'run with that' and come up with what you came up with. 

I guess you can just keep on paying your Michigan taxes and high auto insurance that you don't like!!!
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: The Fuzz on March 31, 2018, 02:43:12 PM
Belittling elaboration after a post is what kills a forum!
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on April 01, 2018, 07:18:09 AM
Belittling elaboration after a post is what kills a forum!

This forum has been on life support for years anyway.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on April 01, 2018, 07:23:04 AM
Not withstanding, the MCCA is a Ponzi scheme perpetrated on the citizens of this state that really cannot afford it and is counter productive to the state's advancement in population, attracting industry and the general health of the state as a whole, not to mention the terrible roads and poor political climate.

Nothing will change until the general population becomes pro-active.  IOW, talk is cheap and does nothing.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: The Fuzz on April 01, 2018, 07:46:48 AM
This forum has been on life support for years anyway.

No duh!

The forum got a few "Know it all" personas that most don't develop respect for or hang around with, electronically or face-to-face.  Just makes for an uncomfortable forum to participate in when every post is stepped on or elaborated upon out of the context the poster intended.  Lot's of bad interpretation or just poor comprehension skills, but that's common in this crazy world we live in.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on April 01, 2018, 10:13:44 AM
I have a family member that will be paying $800 a year for that crap
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on April 01, 2018, 09:57:19 PM
I have a family member that will be paying $800 a year for that crap
 

We are right there too and then some..

How about 8 licensed motor vehicles times 195 bucks. = 1500 and change in fuzzy math.  3 cars, one pickup and 4 bikes.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on April 01, 2018, 09:58:13 PM
No duh!

The forum got a few "Know it all" personas that most don't develop respect for or hang around with, electronically or face-to-face.  Just makes for an uncomfortable forum to participate in when every post is stepped on or elaborated upon out of the context the poster intended.  Lot's of bad interpretation or just poor comprehension skills, but that's common in this crazy world we live in.

All I can say to you is...  Kiss off homey.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Professor H on April 02, 2018, 01:47:06 PM
 

We are right there too and then some..

How about 8 licensed motor vehicles times 195 bucks. = 1500 and change in fuzzy math.  3 cars, one pickup and 4 bikes.

22/year increase tells me that they have no clue - generally happens when the fox is running the hen house.

The lack of any fiscal responsibility and the private company aspect - is really how we got to where we are...  lack of transparency and responsibility leads to a 10 billion dollar taxpayer money grab! 
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Maverick on April 02, 2018, 01:58:38 PM
MCCA is claiming that they have $23 Billion in anticipated claims and only have $20 billion to cover that so they need to increase the fees.

Unbelievable !!
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on April 02, 2018, 03:56:05 PM
I am personally aware of one guy in Ohio that was involved in am accident in Mich and is okay now but somehow was awarded $500,000 for damages..i though the intent was to pay for lifetime medical but apparently one can sign off and get a lump sum.  Some of the money was for 4 months that he was off work but he doesn't make that kind of money
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: BigRedDog on April 02, 2018, 06:46:59 PM
I am personally aware of one guy in Ohio that was involved in am accident in Mich and is okay now but somehow was awarded $500,000 for damages..i though the intent was to pay for lifetime medical but apparently one can sign off and get a lump sum.  Some of the money was for 4 months that he was off work but he doesn't make that kind of money

I'm thinking much or all of that $500K came from his own insurance company.  If the crash was in Michigan then the 'no fault' requirement would make his insurance company liable.   

The 'fund' doesn't start paying immediately.  The insurance company has to reach a threshold of what they've paid out first before the fund kicks in and picks up the balance or the 'long term' care.  I've heard what the threshold is but I've forgotten.  Part of the benefit of the 'fund' to the insurance companies is they don't have to worry about these long term health care costs.  They have a limit of what they have to pay out and after they reach the limit they turn the bills over to the fund and the fund takes care of it from there.

His settlement may be something the insurance company decided was easier than fighting with him. 
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on April 02, 2018, 07:41:25 PM
Well that explains then why the insurance companies like this scam. It limits their liability.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on April 02, 2018, 09:06:37 PM
I'm thinking much or all of that $500K came from his own insurance company.  If the crash was in Michigan then the 'no fault' requirement would make his insurance company liable.   

The 'fund' doesn't start paying immediately.  The insurance company has to reach a threshold of what they've paid out first before the fund kicks in and picks up the balance or the 'long term' care.  I've heard what the threshold is but I've forgotten.  Part of the benefit of the 'fund' to the insurance companies is they don't have to worry about these long term health care costs.  They have a limit of what they have to pay out and after they reach the limit they turn the bills over to the fund and the fund takes care of it from there.

His settlement may be something the insurance company decided was easier than fighting with him.

The threshold is the upper limit of your liability.  Say you have 100-300, then the upper limit is 300.  After that the MCCA takes over.  I know someone in that situation, closed head injury, a veg for life.  Went to the limits of their policy then MCCA took over.

I also was under the understanding that the insurance laws in the state you have an accident in or get injured in applies.  So if I get injured in Ohio with a Michigan carrier, it's still tort based and I can sue the other party or they can sue me for PI if it's my fault.

I prefer tort based insurance myself actually.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Professor H on April 02, 2018, 09:08:47 PM
Takes a lot of payments to equal 10 billion!   and those actuaries think everyone is making top dollar on their charges - and the people live forever...     
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on April 02, 2018, 09:09:25 PM
Well that explains then why the insurance companies like this scam. It limits their liability.

Not really, they still have to pay to the limit of the liability clause.  Typically 100-300.  I carry 500-1mil and that should cover just about anything.  BTW, it's a helluva lot cheaper than MCCA.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: BigRedDog on April 03, 2018, 09:32:55 AM
Seems like there is still plenty of confusion over how Michigan no fault insurance works.

Every policy in Michigan has the provision to cover your insurance company for any medical costs over $555,000 (current figure but is subject to revision).  That is fixed and carved in stone and is not variable in any way that I am aware of.

It has absolutely nothing to do with the 'limits' you choose to carry on the rest of your auto insurance.  $300K-500K-1M-5M etc. 

If you were hauling one of your grandchildren in your vehicle that was 6 months old and you were involved in a crash (no matter who was at fault) and the child was critically injured to the point of needing care for the next 85 years or so then the MCCA fund kicks in and lets your AAA policy off the hook so to speak.  After AAA pays the hospital and extended care facilities and whoever the $555K then AAA is off the hook.  The MCCA pays even if the amount runs into the billions of dollars. 

Your $300-$500K liability has to do with other costs that you buy insurance for. 

Pain and suffering is probably the big cost after actual medical costs.

You also have to get your vehicle repaired or replaced. 

Maybe you were the unfortunate driver that hit a bridge support out on the freeway.  Your insurance pays for that (well, it pays 'if' you had enough liability).  There are many other scenarios but this is the basic.

Many people also buy a provision for glass breakage and other non collision damage to their vehicles.

When the truck threw up a piece of concrete down on M-151 several years ago we were able to get the damage repaired with no deductible.  Over the years we've had a couple of vehicles in the Kroger parking lot that were damaged by shopping carts.  Insurance covered it every time. 

Several years ago our son moved to Ohio and had to get insurance on his truck down there.  He was surprised at 'what a deal' he was getting until the insurance agent explained to him what was 'not' covered in Ohio's insurance program.  When they calculated out what it would cost for a similar policy as what our son had in Michigan it was eye opening.  Seems like they used a medical payment of $5M (when in reality the MCCA has no upper cap) and the policy would have been more in Ohio than it was here in Michigan. 

Here's the website I found the $555K on...

lots of other good info along with some 'political' concerns!

https://sinasdramis.com/michigan-catastrophic-claims-fee
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Professor H on April 05, 2018, 10:54:08 AM
My complaint that is ignored by politicians - and the MCCA board of directors (insurance companies)

Is Fiscal responsibility with that 10 Billion!   

They won't negotiate a fee schedule with the providers of services - and instead pay the billed amount.
Ever look at a bill those same insurance providers get and then actually pay? 
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Monroe Native on April 05, 2018, 07:03:03 PM
My complaint that is ignored by politicians - and the MCCA board of directors (insurance companies)

Is Fiscal responsibility with that 10 Billion!   

They won't negotiate a fee schedule with the providers of services - and instead pay the billed amount.
Ever look at a bill those same insurance providers get and then actually pay?

I think that all those providers are getting a handsome return on their campaign donations.

The Schedule already exists within the State.  They just have to have the will to use it.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on April 05, 2018, 08:55:03 PM
Insurance companies are contributing enough money to key politicians to keep the scam alive..
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on April 11, 2018, 10:13:07 PM
Just like the oil lobby is keeping line 5 alive.....  Money talks....
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on April 11, 2018, 10:17:45 PM
Simple answer on Na Fault..  It needs to be voluntary not mandatory.  You want to opt in, fine.  You don't, fine too.  When the cost of the MCCA addendum exceeds the cost of basic policy, it's time to change something.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Professor H on April 12, 2018, 11:02:36 PM
Simple answer on Na Fault..  It needs to be voluntary not mandatory.  You want to opt in, fine.  You don't, fine too.  When the cost of the MCCA addendum exceeds the cost of basic policy, it's time to change something.
At 200  - its probably getting close for some vehicles! 

Finally heard back from 1 politician -  Bellino...   the rest of the members of both "Insurance committee's"  nada
Title: Thanks, Lansing: Billboards mock high auto insurance rates
Post by: BigRedDog on June 06, 2018, 10:50:50 AM
Maybe this move will 'shame' some of our 'full time' legislators into taking some action!!!

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/06/06/detroit-billboards-thank-high-auto-rates/673484002/ (https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/06/06/detroit-billboards-thank-high-auto-rates/673484002/)
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Professor H on June 09, 2018, 12:09:47 PM
There is no shame for taking $$  when you are a politician it seems...
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: nails on June 09, 2018, 01:31:32 PM


Is Fiscal responsibility with that 10 Billion!     

Where did the $10 Billion figure come from?
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on June 09, 2018, 09:17:14 PM
I see there is Finally a bill to reduce the MCCA for senior citizens.  It's a start at least.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on June 09, 2018, 09:18:16 PM
If it was such a good idea then why are we the only state that has it?  Inquiring minds want to know/
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Monroe Native on June 10, 2018, 07:11:26 AM
I see there is Finally a bill to reduce the MCCA for senior citizens.  It's a start at least.

Why for seniors?  Why are seniors always the acceptable class to be singled out and given special treatment?

Why not a discount on the secondary vehicles in a household?

Kind of ridiculous you get to pay a full share of the fund for a historic vehicle - plated as such - that you are only allowed to drive to / from shows, parades, etc.

Kind of ridiculous to charge the same for a vehicle rated "pleasure" insured for low mileage per year the same as a vehicle that is rated for full time use and higher mileage.

Why not rate the driver and vehicle based on risk - like the rest of the insurance policy? 

That would kind of automatically give most seniors a cost reduction - without singling out one group for special treatment.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: BigRedDog on June 10, 2018, 09:06:14 AM
Why for seniors?  Why are seniors always the acceptable class to be singled out and given special treatment?

Why not a discount on the secondary vehicles in a household?

Kind of ridiculous you get to pay a full share of the fund for a historic vehicle - plated as such - that you are only allowed to drive to / from shows, parades, etc.

Kind of ridiculous to charge the same for a vehicle rated "pleasure" insured for low mileage per year the same as a vehicle that is rated for full time use and higher mileage.

Why not rate the driver and vehicle based on risk - like the rest of the insurance policy? 

That would kind of automatically give most seniors a cost reduction - without singling out one group for special treatment.

I really haven't been following this except if I see an article.  I don't have any inside info but if I had to venture a guess it would be that perhaps they're trying to 'entice' more seniors to stay put here in Michigan after they retire.  I'm sure there are some that have left and plan on leaving at least partially due to the higher cost of auto insurance. 

The state doesn't make anything (at least that I'm aware of) off the 'fund' or any other auto insurance but the state DOES make money off of taxes on certain retiree benefits and other taxes seniors pay.  When they move to another state then that state reaps the rewards of those taxable benefits.  In some states the taxes are lower BUT in all states the auto insurance is lower. 

Just my guess!
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Maverick on June 10, 2018, 09:37:10 AM
Why for seniors?  Why are seniors always the acceptable class to be singled out and given special treatment?

Why not a discount on the secondary vehicles in a household?

Kind of ridiculous you get to pay a full share of the fund for a historic vehicle - plated as such - that you are only allowed to drive to / from shows, parades, etc.

Kind of ridiculous to charge the same for a vehicle rated "pleasure" insured for low mileage per year the same as a vehicle that is rated for full time use and higher mileage.

Why not rate the driver and vehicle based on risk - like the rest of the insurance policy? 

That would kind of automatically give most seniors a cost reduction - without singling out one group for special treatment.

Because more seniors vote and because more seniors are republicans/conservatives.
politicians aren't interested in fixing the problem. They act like they are doing something but what it almost always boils down to is pandering to the people that they think will keep voting them into office.

Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on June 10, 2018, 10:49:11 AM
I'll take the discount for seniors maxing at $50,000 if i don't have to pay the $200 a year per veh.
I have medical ins and i don't need wage reimbursement.
So here again is the governments idea of those that have it paying for others.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Monroe Native on June 10, 2018, 11:13:54 AM
Because more seniors vote and because more seniors are republicans/conservatives.
politicians aren't interested in fixing the problem. They act like they are doing something but what it almost always boils down to is pandering to the people that they think will keep voting them into office.

Your answer makes perfect sense.

Businesses buy politicians, and politicians buy votes.

It is the circle of democratic life I guess.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on June 10, 2018, 12:00:51 PM
We like to vote for our guy because he gets us stuff but all the rest of the people should vote their guy out. 
And there we have career politicians.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: nails on June 10, 2018, 02:50:32 PM

Where did the $10 Billion figure come from?

Still don't know where this figure came from.  The fund is close to $20 Billion.
If they can draw only 4% interest, that is $800,000,000.00 per year.
Add that to the premiums charged from policy holders. 
Mind boggling.

The state doesn't make anything (at least that I'm aware of) off the 'fund'

Maybe not, but the individual politicians make a lot from lobbyist.
And I don't trust the system enough to believe the State isn't getting something under the table.



 
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on June 10, 2018, 05:50:44 PM
The $10 billion has been thrown around for quite some time.  I think the fund managers might have even admitted there is that much but they don't think its enough.  That's when they raised it to $197
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: nails on June 10, 2018, 06:58:44 PM

That’s what I didn’t understand because I’ve always read the fund was somewhere over $18 Billion and counting. Must be over 20 now.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Monroe Native on June 10, 2018, 07:08:08 PM
It won't be enough until it can bail out all the Public Pension fund obligations.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on June 11, 2018, 09:06:24 PM
It won't be enough until it can bail out all the Public Pension fund obligations.

At least Michigan isn't as bad as Illinois.  Now there is a serious underfunded / unfunded pension obligation.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on June 11, 2018, 11:15:34 PM
Yes MN I'm pretty sure Michigan politicians are keeping and eye on the funds for MCA
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Professor H on June 12, 2018, 05:25:05 PM
Still don't know where this figure came from.  The fund is close to $20 Billion.
If they can draw only 4% interest, that is $800,000,000.00 per year.
Add that to the premiums charged from policy holders. 
Mind boggling.

Maybe not, but the individual politicians make a lot from lobbyist.
And I don't trust the system enough to believe the State isn't getting something under the table.



 
I think I got if from the MCCA website...   sorry I'll double check
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on March 28, 2019, 10:47:26 AM
Sticking it to us some more.   Raising fee to $220 per vehicle. 
http://eblade.toledoblade.com/.pf/emailed/140104/1/20190328055 (http://eblade.toledoblade.com/.pf/emailed/140104/1/20190328055)
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Professor H on March 28, 2019, 12:04:31 PM
New Gov.   maybe will listen

The idea that they pay all expenses as billed is a fraud to taxpayers... 

None of the individual insurance companies would ever do business without negotiating a fee schedule to control costs!   But as a member of the MCCA board they hide behind the fact the law doesn't  "REQUIRE" them to contain costs...   
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Maverick on March 28, 2019, 04:01:35 PM
Yes they should force them to adopt the Blue Cross payment schedule. That would save billions.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Monroe Native on March 28, 2019, 06:27:00 PM
How about instituting some rules that if you don't have insurance - you don't draw off the fund?

I'm not talking about for passengers - I'm talking about people who operate vehicles without insurance.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on March 28, 2019, 08:34:01 PM
Was talking to a lady tonight in Detroit at a HS ballgame.  He son was slightly injured in an auto.  He went to an urgent care facility that billed Mich No Fault $750.  The going rate for finger splints.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on March 29, 2019, 06:19:57 AM
Sticking it to us some more.   Raising fee to $220 per vehicle. 
[url]http://eblade.toledoblade.com/.pf/emailed/140104/1/20190328055[/url] ([url]http://eblade.toledoblade.com/.pf/emailed/140104/1/20190328055[/url])


220 bucks a year is more than I pay for the insurance on my motorcycle.  The MCCA fee has exceeded the cost of the policy now.

I see 'insurance reform' in Michigan has stalled in the lame arse government in Lansing.  Between Whitlesses gas tax, and the MCCA, people will be leaving this sorry state in droves again.

Now we are the ONLY state in the Republic that imposes the stupid unlimited medical coverage.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on March 29, 2019, 06:20:31 AM
Yes they should force them to adopt the Blue Cross payment schedule. That would save billions.

Duh...... ;D

I probably should clarify.  My comment wasn't meant to be an insult, more of a 'yeah baby' comment.  If it's good for hospitals and doctors (taking BC assignment on negotiated rates.  It's good for MCCA too.  If they went that route, I'd have no issue with MCCA because the surcharge would actually be reasonable.  Right now, it's insane and of course Whittless condones it.  I want to puke every time I see her mug in the paper.  I'm up there with crooked and stupid politicians and that includes your co chairman or whatever he is.  He needs to be removed or censured for his actions.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on March 29, 2019, 10:31:29 AM
I read a quote from Zorn last week saying "all the people he has talked to favors Michigans wonderful no-fault".. I sent his office an email and told him to quit lying to us.  We know better.  Haven't heard back from him.  I copied Sheppard who says he's talking about eliminating nofault.  Talk is cheap though.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on March 29, 2019, 10:57:00 AM
I read a quote from Zorn last week saying "all the people he has talked to favors Michigans wonderful no-fault".. I sent his office an email and told him to quit lying to us.  We know better.  Haven't heard back from him.  I copied Sheppard who says he's talking about eliminating nofault.  Talk is cheap though.

Zorn is so full of excretement his eyes are brown....  Every time he moves his lips, he lies.  I wish Doug Spade had gotten that seat instead of Zorn.  Spade is honest and forthright, Zorn is like Muller's report, a 'Nothingburger'.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Monroe Native on March 29, 2019, 05:20:43 PM
I'm resigned to them never getting rid of no fault.

They could institute a fee schedule for medical reimbursement.

They could institute that if you aren't insured - you don't get paid out of the fund.

They could institute that out of State Drivers are reimbursed by their own insurance policy.

They could go after the fraud.  Getting in a wreck doesn't mean you won the lotto.

They could cut out all the suing that is going on - that makes no fault not no fault.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Monroe Native on March 29, 2019, 05:28:11 PM
https://www.monroenews.com/news/20190329/sheppard-bellino-push-for-no-fault-auto-insurance-repeal (https://www.monroenews.com/news/20190329/sheppard-bellino-push-for-no-fault-auto-insurance-repeal)

They need to vote on this bill today.  Whitmer needs to sign it.

No more screwing around.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on March 29, 2019, 06:19:38 PM
Politicians get to much money from everyone that touches the fund.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on March 29, 2019, 07:52:41 PM
I think we need to change Dale Zorn's name to Dale Scorn. ;D
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on March 29, 2019, 07:57:30 PM
I'm resigned to them never getting rid of no fault.

They could institute a fee schedule for medical reimbursement.

They could institute that if you aren't insured - you don't get paid out of the fund.

They could institute that out of State Drivers are reimbursed by their own insurance policy.

They could go after the fraud.  Getting in a wreck doesn't mean you won the lotto.

They could cut out all the suing that is going on - that makes no fault not no fault.

It's not your fault that it's no fault...lol  $220.00 per year per vehicle is insane.  That is more than I pay for my entire premium for my motorcycle.

We need to go to a Tort system like Colorado did.  I see their premiums dropped an average of 35%
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on March 29, 2019, 07:58:49 PM
Politicians get to much money from everyone that touches the fund.

Knowing crooked politicians, I'm sure a lot of them are 'touching' that fund, probably why Scorn says people are in favor of it.  Sounds to me like he has his fat little fingers in it.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Monroe Native on March 29, 2019, 08:03:38 PM
It's not your fault that it's no fault...lol  $220.00 per year per vehicle is insane.  That is more than I pay for my entire premium for my motorcycle.

We need to go to a Tort system like Colorado did.  I see their premiums dropped an average of 35%

What is insane is - it is 220 per car.

If you have a couple of toys that you hardly ever drive, but they give you a grin once in awhile you are paying about $20 a mile to cover the no fault.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on March 29, 2019, 08:25:02 PM
My son and daughter ea have 4 vehicles.  And like you say if they had a couple of toys they would have to move to Ohio.
Luckily for one of them two of the kids are moving out of state for school and will insure veh there
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on March 30, 2019, 09:28:58 AM
What is insane is - it is 220 per car.

If you have a couple of toys that you hardly ever drive, but they give you a grin once in awhile you are paying about $20 a mile to cover the no fault.

Of course the best part about riding a motorcycle is, you pay the MCCA fee but under Michigan wacko law, you aren't covered by the MCCA at all.  You get injured, it's on you 100%.

I look at Lansing like the fiddlers that fiddled while Rome burned.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on March 30, 2019, 09:31:04 AM
My son and daughter ea have 4 vehicles.  And like you say if they had a couple of toys they would have to move to Ohio.
Luckily for one of them two of the kids are moving out of state for school and will insure veh there

900 bucks straight down the toilet.  No wonder poor people in Detroit (and elsewhere) play the peel the sticker game.  Who can really afford to pay it anyway?
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on March 30, 2019, 09:34:21 AM
Yeah but think about the other guy that's maybe involved in your motorcycle accident that may be from the big city with no insurance.  He needs coverage, huh..
There is no reason to keep MCCA other than politicians are getting paid off..And we keep reelecting the a--holes.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on March 30, 2019, 09:38:28 AM
I don't.  I don't vote for incumbents as a rule unless they are actually doing something productive instead of taking up space and collecting a salary from the public coffers.  I sure as heck didn't vote for Scorn.  I'd write in Mickey Mouse before that.  Not all that fond of Bellino but Jason Sheppard us a doer.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on March 30, 2019, 09:55:01 AM
I don't study these guys but I generally don't vote for anyone that's trying to get re-elected just as a matter of principle.  Sheppard does a lot of talking about things we seem to favor but he never is able to sway enough people to get anything passed.. I still like him over everyone else..
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on March 30, 2019, 10:37:56 AM
Scorn does the most talking (lip service) and the least amount of doing anything, well Dinkass did the least amount of anything that I can recollect.  I do miss the 'Dingel Bags' at the fair though.  Good for putting stuff in.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on March 30, 2019, 10:48:05 AM
Zorn showed his ignorance when he said last week that everyone he talked to wants to keep no fault..
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on March 30, 2019, 04:20:31 PM
Zorn showed his ignorance when he said last week that everyone he talked to wants to keep no fault..

Bet a hundred bucks the only person he talked to was himself in the mirror.  He's one of those idiots that believe what he says if he says it more than once.

If he said that to me, I'd call him out and then tell him he was a baldface liar and I'd do it in public too.  He is and fat too.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Monroe Native on March 30, 2019, 04:26:40 PM
Zorn showed his ignorance when he said last week that everyone he talked to wants to keep no fault..

I can't afford no fault - not when it comes with the cost of paying off every politician in this State to do nothing - on a full time basis.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on March 30, 2019, 05:52:44 PM
I can't afford no fault - not when it comes with the cost of paying off every politician in this State to do nothing - on a full time basis.

Who can.  Our out of pocket cost for no fault is over $1000.00 per year now.  A grand for nothing.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Professor H on April 05, 2019, 12:36:34 PM
Yeah but think about the other guy that's maybe involved in your motorcycle accident that may be from the big city with no insurance.  He needs coverage, huh..
There is no reason to keep MCCA other than politicians are getting paid off..And we keep reelecting the a--holes.

Hospitals and health care system are the ones garnering this money..   not politicians!   

Its a private company -  run by insurance executives -  funded by taxpayers...   

Example:   remember those hospital bills that say you were billed 20,000  but the insurance company negotiated it down to 1,900 ...     MCCA pays whatever is billed -  no incentive to be bothered with negoatiating fee's and save the taxpayer $$ they are playing with
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on April 05, 2019, 01:15:35 PM
Hospitals and health care system are the ones garnering this money..   not politicians!   

Its a private company -  run by insurance executives -  funded by taxpayers...   

Example:   remember those hospital bills that say you were billed 20,000  but the insurance company negotiated it down to 1,900 ...     MCCA pays whatever is billed -  no incentive to be bothered with negoatiating fee's and save the taxpayer $$ they are playing with

Really??  Better check the fund balance.  I hear it has multiple millions in it.  Not a private company either.  A board of directors appointed by the politicians that does nothing but collects huge salries.

The reason there is so much resistance to reform is the directors grease the politicians well, just like the Michigan Oil Lobby.  Wake up and smell the roses.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on April 05, 2019, 06:37:10 PM
Politicians only act when there is money and voted involved. Nothing else.  There is only one reason they keep nofault. They are getting money.
 I don’t need it.  I have medical ins and I don’t work so I don’t need wage guarantee
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on April 05, 2019, 11:04:09 PM
Politicians only act when there is money and voted involved. Nothing else.  There is only one reason they keep nofault. They are getting money.
 I don’t need it.  I have medical ins and I don’t work so I don’t need wage guarantee

...but they still bleed you for 220 bucks a year per vehicle.  Pure Michigan....  Pure BS.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: nails on April 07, 2019, 07:48:12 PM

Really??  Better check the fund balance.  I hear it has multiple millions in it.  Not a private company either.

     Well over $20 Billion.

      Plus whatever substantial amount of interest it earns.

Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on April 08, 2019, 08:10:25 AM
The reason for the increases the last 2 years is they are saying there isn't enough money in the fund to cover potential loses.   Well, how about cutting back on huge payouts to those potential loses. 
There is apparently way to much corruption by everyone involved in the scam.  Even those we should be trusting, hospitals and doctors.   We know we can't trust most lawyers and politicians..
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on April 08, 2019, 09:56:38 AM
20 Billion seems to me like a damn good pad.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on April 20, 2019, 08:43:42 PM
Just read on Facebook that Mich Gov has ordered an audit of the nofault fund. Betting lots of lawyers go to court trying to slow this down
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on April 21, 2019, 06:38:41 PM
Bet you are right.  The MCCA fund is just a political slush fund, paid for by Michigan working stiff's.  I don't believe Whitless has the cajonies to do anything anyway.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Monroe Native on May 07, 2019, 06:48:24 PM
Wow.

Maybe - just maybe - the legislature is finally ready to do something about insurance.

https://www.mlive.com/news/2019/05/senate-oks-sweeping-changes-to-michigans-no-fault-insurance-law.html (https://www.mlive.com/news/2019/05/senate-oks-sweeping-changes-to-michigans-no-fault-insurance-law.html)
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on May 08, 2019, 09:13:35 AM
I won't be satisfied until I see my policy details where every line item is the same as the past and the $200+ item for no-fault is gone
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Monroe Native on May 08, 2019, 01:53:54 PM
Well Jenny Whitmer is already promising a veto so now worries.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Monroe Native on May 08, 2019, 07:53:47 PM
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2019/05/08/michigan-house-prepares-auto-insurance-reforms-vote/1145113001/ (https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2019/05/08/michigan-house-prepares-auto-insurance-reforms-vote/1145113001/)

I don't see how you eliminate Zip Code from being one of the factors that determine auto rates.

Some Zip Codes are inherently riskier than others.

Oh well - as long as Jenny Whitmer can pander to the idiots that voted for her - then I guess it all makes sense.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on May 08, 2019, 08:36:25 PM
I agree that zip code should be a determining factor in establishing rates.  But the problem there would be how many people in Detroit actually but insurance?  And if someone complains it's not right to penalize those in high accident areas then maybe they stop driving like idiots.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Monroe Native on May 09, 2019, 07:12:10 AM
I agree that zip code should be a determining factor in establishing rates.  But the problem there would be how many people in Detroit actually but insurance?  And if someone complains it's not right to penalize those in high accident areas then maybe they stop driving like idiots.

I read this week that 60 percent of Detroit drivers don't bother with insurance.

Pretty sure that feeds into their high rates
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on May 09, 2019, 08:34:47 AM
and wouldn't it be interesting to know how many of those that don't buy insurance are collecting big payoffs from "no fault" accidents.  It has to be high because it's know that the big slum cities have high accident rates,  they've said so.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on May 09, 2019, 12:44:08 PM
I read this week that 60 percent of Detroit drivers don't bother with insurance.

Pretty sure that feeds into their high rates

They cannot afford insurance, that is the driving factor and why 'peel the sticker' is so popular in Detroit.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on May 09, 2019, 12:48:06 PM
Well Jenny Whitmer is already promising a veto so now worries.

You mean Whitless don't you?  This was the first election for governor that I left the box blank.  I say go ahead and veto and then do a veto over ride. or, let Gilbert do a ballot initative and get it on the ballot, I'll sign the petition.  Put it to the voters, we all know how that will play and Whitless will be powerless to stop it.

She's pissed because she didn't get her 45 cent fuel tax increase.  Not going to either.  That is just plain insane but looking at her, she sure looks like Garnny's sister.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Monroe Native on May 09, 2019, 06:25:33 PM
and wouldn't it be interesting to know how many of those that don't buy insurance are collecting big payoffs from "no fault" accidents.  It has to be high because it's know that the big slum cities have high accident rates,  they've said so.

Getting in a wreck is like winning the lotto - only we all get to pay for their prize pool.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Monroe Native on May 09, 2019, 08:16:05 PM
Thank the LORD we have Whitless looking out for us.....

https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2019/05/whitmer-threatens-to-veto-any-auto-insurance-reform-bill-that-protects-a-corrupt-system.html (https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2019/05/whitmer-threatens-to-veto-any-auto-insurance-reform-bill-that-protects-a-corrupt-system.html)

I have a question.

Has she lost her mind - or did she never have one in the first place?
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on May 09, 2019, 09:56:28 PM
Thank the LORD we have Whitless looking out for us.....

https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2019/05/whitmer-threatens-to-veto-any-auto-insurance-reform-bill-that-protects-a-corrupt-system.html (https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2019/05/whitmer-threatens-to-veto-any-auto-insurance-reform-bill-that-protects-a-corrupt-system.html)

I have a question.

Has she lost her mind - or did she never have one in the first place?

Like Granny, she's mindless.  Gawd I hope she only lasts ONE TERM.

Got to take care of the 'special interests' and heck with the voters.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on May 10, 2019, 09:27:13 AM
It's obvious the democrats, (the deep state, politicians, and 99% of media) were the reason democrats gained  significant positions in the last election.  That was the primary purpose of the special council after they found out they couldn't find anything to impeach Trump with.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Monroe Native on May 10, 2019, 01:39:54 PM
I see the other idiot we somehow elected is against lowering Auto Insurance costs too.

Just follow the money - right Dana?

https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2019/05/nessel-says-auto-insurance-reform-bills-undermine-her-efforts-to-stop-fraud.html (https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2019/05/nessel-says-auto-insurance-reform-bills-undermine-her-efforts-to-stop-fraud.html)
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on May 10, 2019, 02:31:48 PM
I see the other idiot we somehow elected is against lowering Auto Insurance costs too.

Just follow the money - right Dana?

https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2019/05/nessel-says-auto-insurance-reform-bills-undermine-her-efforts-to-stop-fraud.html (https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2019/05/nessel-says-auto-insurance-reform-bills-undermine-her-efforts-to-stop-fraud.html)

Maybe you did, I didn't.  I don't vote for gay idiots.  Just another turd in the Lansing toilet bowl.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Monroe Native on May 12, 2019, 09:34:26 AM
I think FInley is right - that Whitmer is trying to extort her .45 worth of gas tax in exchange for insurance.

I also think he is right that Whitmer is bought and paid for by special interests - and she doesn't mind all of us paying the tab for her bribes.

I guess that doesn't make her very unique for politicians.

And to cover her ruse - she pretends that her real goal is for everyone in the state that buys insurance to help subsidize Detroit - which frankly I really don't want to do.  Why should I be punished for that sewer?


https://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/columnists/nolan-finley/2019/05/12/finley-no-fault-relief-sight-whitmer-grab-it/1164613001/ (https://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/columnists/nolan-finley/2019/05/12/finley-no-fault-relief-sight-whitmer-grab-it/1164613001/)

Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on May 12, 2019, 10:45:26 AM
I don't want to see the state mandated no fault turned into an option on ones insurance . 
Just eliminate it and try to find a safe place for the $10+ billion to pay claims for those currently collecting from the scan.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Monroe Native on May 12, 2019, 02:46:45 PM
I don't want to see the state mandated no fault turned into an option on ones insurance . 
Just eliminate it and try to find a safe place for the $10+ billion to pay claims for those currently collecting from the scan.

OH - but Whitless is INSISTING that there continues to be an unlimited option.

How do you do that - while including a clause that there must be a rate reduction at the same time?

If you opt to keep the same thing - why would you expect a reduction?  I guess there might be a small reduction by adding the rate schedule and a State Police unit to go after the fraud.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on May 12, 2019, 04:09:59 PM
But I'm guessing a good majority of the people collecting an unlimited amount don''t even have insurance..
If you are injured in an accident that's not your fault and you don't have insurance to effing bad.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Monroe Native on May 13, 2019, 07:33:27 PM
But I'm guessing a good majority of the people collecting an unlimited amount don''t even have insurance..
If you are injured in an accident that's not your fault and you don't have insurance to effing bad.

I agree - and I assume that practice would come to an end for those who don't have a policy.

However - given the fine people we have in the legislature, and the complete moron we have as Governor - that assumption is probably wrong.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Monroe Native on May 13, 2019, 07:50:58 PM
Apparently without no fault insurance people will be left on stretchers to beg in the streets, and all Trauma centers will cease to exist - or so the doomsayers are telling us.

I am not sure how the other 49 states get by - given how dire the ramifications of changing the law would be.

I really can't stand lying lobbyists.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2019/05/13/whitmer-gop-leaders-meet-amid-auto-insurance-impasse-veto-threat/1191683001/ (https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2019/05/13/whitmer-gop-leaders-meet-amid-auto-insurance-impasse-veto-threat/1191683001/)
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on May 19, 2019, 11:11:17 AM
I found this on a Bedford facebook page today.
Quicken Loans founder Dan Gilbert is not waiting any longer for legislative Republicans and Gov. Gretchen Whitmer to hammer out a compromise on no fault automobile insurance reform.
Worried that time is running out to mount a successful petition drive should the negotiations fail, the head of the Rock Ventures empire has formed a ballot committee, hired the state’s top election lawyers and will be out on the street gathering signatures within a matter of days.
A source close to the situation told me Saturday that Gilbert’s team is crafting a citizens initiative for a law that would closely mirror the bills passed by the Republican-controlled Michigan House and Senate over the past two weeks.
He’ll need to collect 340,000 signatures within six months. Once the names are gathered, the measure will go to the Legislature for an up or down vote. If the House and Senate then approve the initiative on a simple majority vote, it becomes law without the need for the governor’s signature. If they don’t, the proposal will automatically go on the 2020 fall ballot for voters to decide.
It’s the same path that Right to Life Michigan has threatened to take should Whitmer veto, as promised, the abortion restrictions passed by lawmakers last week.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Monroe Native on May 19, 2019, 01:25:06 PM
If he is going to do a ballot drive - why doesn't Dan ask for exactly what Ohio has?

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/columnists/nolan-finley/2019/05/18/dan-gilbert-launches-no-fault-insurance-ballot-initiative/39493391/ (https://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/columnists/nolan-finley/2019/05/18/dan-gilbert-launches-no-fault-insurance-ballot-initiative/39493391/)
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Monroe Native on May 23, 2019, 06:45:25 PM
I guess they have to pass it for us to find out what is in it.

No worries?

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2019/05/23/mich-lawmakers-reconvene-possible-auto-insurance-reform-vote/1212200001/ (https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2019/05/23/mich-lawmakers-reconvene-possible-auto-insurance-reform-vote/1212200001/)
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on May 23, 2019, 11:25:10 PM
Whatever is in it, has to be better than the present.  Whitless will veto it anyway and Gilbert will make it a ballot initative and shove it right up her stinking arse.

I'm still amazed that the people of Michigan actually elected such a twit.  Her and Nessel, what a pair.

She's embarking on 4 do nothing years.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Monroe Native on May 24, 2019, 08:09:46 PM
It passed - so eventually maybe we will find out what is in it.

https://www.mlive.com/news/2019/05/senate-joins-house-in-passing-sweeping-changes-to-michigans-auto-insurance-policies.html (https://www.mlive.com/news/2019/05/senate-joins-house-in-passing-sweeping-changes-to-michigans-auto-insurance-policies.html)

I like that we get to pay 250% more than medicare does.  Looks like that lobbyist earned his or her money.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on May 24, 2019, 09:51:50 PM
It's online on M-Live, 120 pages long.  You know where I stand, we will be totally opting out of all PIP coverage and MCCA as well.  I really hope Whitless signs it.  If she don't, You know who will shove it right up her stinky arse.  Between BC/BS and Medicare, we are covered 110% for all perils.

Actually, I'd enjoy her vetoing it.  Don't think she will, she knows the ramifications, I think.

Our insurance bill will drop at least 50%, like a rock.  A good rock.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Monroe Native on May 24, 2019, 09:58:24 PM
I am not sure why you can opt for 50K of coverage - if you are on Medicaid.

Shouldn't people on public provided insurance have to carry more coverage?

Madness.

Just some Democrat pandering to their voting base.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on May 24, 2019, 10:43:16 PM
im pretty much convinced that nofault is only valuable to the low life in the hood that don't have insurance and gets injured in an auto accident..It's pretty well know that most people in the city of Detroit drive without insurance and Detroit has about the highest accident rate in the country..
So who pays for the medical>>>a couple of guesses.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on May 25, 2019, 12:03:45 AM
If we opt out on the MCCA, on 5 vehicles plus 2 bikes, thats 1500 bucks a year right there.  Eliminate the PIP and it's another couple grand.  I may buy a Saleen Mustang now, I can afford the insurance.  Maybe a z06 Vette, who knows.  I do know one thing, my little Focus os going down the road, without me.  I want a guzzler musclecar.  If I could afford a Veyron, I'd have that.  Something about 225 mph top end interests me.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on May 25, 2019, 12:04:14 AM
Get rid of the pension tax and I'll be in tall cotton.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on May 25, 2019, 07:42:23 AM
Top end doesn't interest me as much anymore.  I like the get up and go from a stop..  I get that with a turbo on a 4 or 6 banger.  Lots of acceleration but no top end.  105-110 maybe..
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on May 25, 2019, 11:49:56 AM
The Bugatti Veryon does 0-60 in 2 flat, 0-100 in 4.  Is that fast enough?  If you want even more, pony up for a Mclaren.  Something about that mid engine Bugatti with it's double overhead cam V12 excites me.  235 on the speed limiter.

Now for my first cheap insurance bill.

Wonder what will happen to that MCCA slush fund?  Bet it vanishes into some politicians pocket.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on May 25, 2019, 05:40:16 PM
I'd say the state government should take charge of the fund but we know how that would go
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on May 25, 2019, 07:31:37 PM
I'd say the state government should take charge of the fund but we know how that would go

Simple answer, fix the roads with it...
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Monroe Native on May 25, 2019, 07:59:24 PM
Top end doesn't interest me as much anymore.  I like the get up and go from a stop..  I get that with a turbo on a 4 or 6 banger.  Lots of acceleration but no top end.  105-110 maybe..

If you want that get an electric car.

Full Torque right off the line.

Awesome good fun.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on May 25, 2019, 08:12:37 PM
I could probably live with an electric car as I don’t drive much each day. My current veh ive had 4-1/2 years and it had 27000 miles.  Of course the first 2 years I also had a RAM
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on May 26, 2019, 10:06:29 AM
I could probably live with an electric car as I don’t drive much each day. My current veh ive had 4-1/2 years and it had 27000 miles.  Of course the first 2 years I also had a RAM

No one admits to having a RAM except those who own one....  RAM   Rebuilt American Motors.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on May 26, 2019, 10:17:44 AM
If you want that get an electric car.

Full Torque right off the line.

Awesome good fun.

My cousin has a Tesla X.  The AWD SUV.  What a hoot, I've driven it.  Good fun until the battery gets low....

Of course with the X, charging (at a Supercharger station) is always free.  Goes like hell, makes no sound, very comfortable and costs north of 100 grand.  Just what I need....  not.

Problem with electric cars or any plug in be it a chainsaw or cordless drill is, the electric grid in this country is incapable of supporting the venue and all the 'Greenies' fail to realize where that 'clean energy' really comes from, let alone how it gets to your plug in whatever.  All greenies see is the end result, not the mechanics of it.

It may work now but in the future, without massive investment in grid upgrades and power generation, it will fail and fail miserably.

Lets see..  You can charge you plug in but your home is suffering brown outs because of the overtaxed grid.  Simple choice for me.  Won't own one at any price.

I see VW is converting one of their German plants to entirely plug in vehicles.  330,000 units a year.  I look at that as a piss poor investment strategy but then VW has made some poor corporate decisions in the past.  Electric motors belong in washing machines, not cars.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on May 26, 2019, 10:46:01 AM
upgrade the grid you say.  The greenies are wanting all the coal fired and nuclear plants shut down.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Monroe Native on May 26, 2019, 04:42:09 PM
I see VW is converting one of their German plants to entirely plug in vehicles.  330,000 units a year.  I look at that as a piss poor investment strategy but then VW has made some poor corporate decisions in the past.  Electric motors belong in washing machines, not cars.

We have two in the fleet right now.

Fun to drive - and I don't miss buying gas.  Newest one has pretty well taken out the range anxiety around town.

Only big downsides - the State rapes you for your license plate - and you really need at least one "gas" car in your "fleet" for the occasional road trip.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on May 26, 2019, 08:46:48 PM
Someday they may invent some way of sending electrical current thru the air kind of like WiFi.  You can be charging while you drive..
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Monroe Native on May 26, 2019, 10:24:06 PM
Someday they may invent some way of sending electrical current thru the air kind of like WiFi.  You can be charging while you drive..

My wife wouldn't even consider any property that was within sight of high tension power lines.

I can't imagine what she would think of a powered road or sending it through the air the way Tesla envisioned - and I'm not talking about Elon Musks money losing car company.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on May 27, 2019, 10:31:53 AM
My wife wouldn't even consider any property that was within sight of high tension power lines.

I can't imagine what she would think of a powered road or sending it through the air the way Tesla envisioned - and I'm not talking about Elon Musks money losing car company.

I not so fondly remember snowmobiling up by Kalkaska and riding up under the power lines, the trail put you pretty close to the wires at some places.  You could feel the juice in the wires in your body and hear it humming, not a comforting feeling or sound so I'm with your wife, no power lines for me.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on May 27, 2019, 10:35:23 AM
upgrade the grid you say.  The greenies are wanting all the coal fired and nuclear plants shut down.

Ain't gonna happen.  Greenies are stupid.  Renewable energy (solar and wind) are not sustainable or reliable.

Greenies never look at where it originates from, just the end result.  So you look enviromentally correct driving your plug in car but in reality the juice comes with a price...pollution.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on May 27, 2019, 10:36:02 AM
We have two in the fleet right now.

Fun to drive - and I don't miss buying gas.  Newest one has pretty well taken out the range anxiety around town.

Only big downsides - the State rapes you for your license plate - and you really need at least one "gas" car in your "fleet" for the occasional road trip.

You can keep them.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: Professor H on May 27, 2019, 11:28:47 AM
I've never seen the inside of a Tesla although I'm told i can fit several sets of clubs in one... :)

My question is how does all the windmills get their power to the grid...  underground wires?
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on May 27, 2019, 12:52:40 PM
I've never seen the inside of a Tesla although I'm told i can fit several sets of clubs in one... :)

My question is how does all the windmills get their power to the grid...  underground wires?

You have a buck thirty laying around you want to invest in something that will be a dinosaur in 5 years?  Go for it.  Roomy inside (least my Cousin's is).  He's got the limited edition model, all carbon fiber and leather inside.  Pretty snazzy for a washing machine...  not for me.

Far as wind turbines go, each unit has it's own transformer and the feed out wires are buried and centralized at some point where they have a step up substation that feeds the grid.  Problem with wind turbines is, they have to turn at a specific RPM to generate useable power and when the wind isn't blowing, they become an expensive rock.  They also have blocking diodes so the grid tie won't backfeed the turbine when it's not turning or turning at less than output RPM.

The other issue is, wind turbines are not maintenance free.  On the contrary, the mechanicals need serviced regularly.  From the blades the motion is fed into a gearbox and then into a generator plus all the electronic associated with feathering the blades and positioning the turbine to catch the wind, pretty complex actually.

That big house up there is crammed with stuff and someone has to climb up there to service it, regularly.  Ain't gonna be me, I'm scared of heights.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on May 27, 2019, 02:07:11 PM
In 50 years they’ll be saying boy this’d coal fired and nuclear plants were pretty efficient and rather cheap to run
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on May 27, 2019, 04:46:06 PM
In 50 years they’ll be saying boy this’d coal fired and nuclear plants were pretty efficient and rather cheap to run
Neither of us will be here to concern ourselves with stupid.

Wind power, while better than solar will never replace conventional fossil fired plants or Nuclear for that matter.  It's all about the'feel good' thing.  One thing that people don't take into account is the rank pollution from Li-Ion battery making.  Batteries are an extremely dirty and pollution intensive industry.  But who care because it's 'green'.
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: blue2 on May 27, 2019, 05:57:33 PM
“Green” is not about energy anyway.  Green is about power. Power for the Democrats
Title: Re: Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association
Post by: SidecarFlip on May 27, 2019, 08:52:17 PM
“Green” is not about energy anyway.  Green is about power. Power for the Democrats

Actually, 'green' is about AOC, just ask her.  Her 'Green New Deal would bankrupt America.