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Categories => Politics and Government => Topic started by: BigRedDog on September 10, 2018, 09:57:17 AM

Title: These are the statewide initiatives voters will see on the November ballot
Post by: BigRedDog on September 10, 2018, 09:57:17 AM

Summary of the article:

Quote
Three ballot initiatives approved for November 2018
It's official - Michigan voters will be deciding on three ballot initiatives when they go to the polls this November.

Proposals for recreational marijuana legalization, an independent redistricting commission and a series of changes to Michigan voting law have all been approved for the ballot.

Here's the exact language voters will be seeing, and what each proposal would do if enacted.

Much, much more:

https://www.mlive.com/expo/news/erry-2018/09/cf846a963e1694/these-are-the-statewide-initia.html (https://www.mlive.com/expo/news/erry-2018/09/cf846a963e1694/these-are-the-statewide-initia.html)
Title: Re: These are the statewide initiatives voters will see on the November ballot
Post by: blue2 on September 10, 2018, 10:02:15 AM
Everything except what the voters need the most. 
Auto insurance reform!!!
Title: Re: These are the statewide initiatives voters will see on the November ballot
Post by: Monroe Native on September 10, 2018, 10:59:32 AM
The Detroit News yad a column that he is going to vote no on all of them.

I kind of agree

This has evolved into just another special interest buy influence boondoggle.
Title: Re: These are the statewide initiatives voters will see on the November ballot
Post by: blue2 on September 10, 2018, 11:51:00 AM
I'd be inclined to vote no on all 3. 
The population elects individuals to Lansing to make decisions.  One of those is voting districts.  They should be making the rules, not someone else not accountable to the voters.  And where are they going to find 5 or 6 independents.
Title: Re: These are the statewide initiatives voters will see on the November ballot
Post by: BigRedDog on September 10, 2018, 01:19:29 PM
Everything except what the voters need the most. 
Auto insurance reform!!!

Time to vote out each and every incumbent including our own reps...

everyone always says "vote them all out...   except for 'my' guy"...

only way to get the auto insurance fixed is to send a clear message.  You didn't do it so maybe the next guy or gal will.
Title: Re: These are the statewide initiatives voters will see on the November ballot
Post by: nails on September 10, 2018, 01:44:47 PM

Time to vote out each and every incumbent including our own reps...

everyone always says "vote them all out...   except for 'my' guy"...

only way to get the auto insurance fixed is to send a clear message. 
You didn't do it, so maybe the next guy or gal will.

That is the correct answer.
It really wouldn't take that long either.

After the first, or maybe the second, group of incumbents were kicked out by the voters, the rest would definitely take notice. Just like when you were a little kid. If you saw a friend get their azz beat for doing something, you thought twice about doing the same thing.

Right now, the elected officials are laughing. They know they can get away with most anything because the voters have very short memories. Every year we talk about voting out the bad ones, but things rarely change.
 
They need a loud WAKE UP call.
And so do we.

Title: Re: These are the statewide initiatives voters will see on the November ballot
Post by: BigRedDog on September 12, 2018, 08:58:26 PM
WDIV's predictions but there's still almost two months to go.  Plenty can change in that time.

https://www.clickondetroit.com/michigan-elections/wdiv_detroit-news-poll-michigan-voters-poised-to-approve-recreational-marijuana-proposal (https://www.clickondetroit.com/michigan-elections/wdiv_detroit-news-poll-michigan-voters-poised-to-approve-recreational-marijuana-proposal)
Title: Re: These are the statewide initiatives voters will see on the November ballot
Post by: The Fuzz on September 12, 2018, 09:23:51 PM
GO POT!
Title: Re: These are the statewide initiatives voters will see on the November ballot
Post by: Maverick on September 12, 2018, 09:27:39 PM
I'm sticking with my prediction of 65 - 35
Title: Re: These are the statewide initiatives voters will see on the November ballot
Post by: The Fuzz on September 12, 2018, 09:59:18 PM
What I found interesting was the support along party lines, and where Independents would fall.  Not too surprised at numbers, but wouldn't have thought even the Republican voters support by the tune of 40 to 50%.  Glad to see the old rich white guys are turning cool.

Party Affiliation                      Support           Oppose

Strong Democratic                  71.1 percent                24.3 percent

Lean Democratic                     70.3 percent                17.0 percent

Independent                            47.1 percent                45.5 percent

Lean Republican                     49.4 percent                49.4 percent

Strong Republican                  41.3 percent                52.5 percent

 
Title: Re: These are the statewide initiatives voters will see on the November ballot
Post by: blue2 on September 12, 2018, 10:28:16 PM
The rich white guys are just hoping the state collects a lot of taxes from the new industry and can lower their taxes.
Title: Re: These are the statewide initiatives voters will see on the November ballot
Post by: Maverick on September 12, 2018, 10:46:53 PM
The tax revenue isn't going to be what a lot of people think. Everybody points to how well Colorado is doing but they have an effective collection of somewhere north of 30 %. Michigan's is going to be closer to 16% including sales tax.
Title: Re: These are the statewide initiatives voters will see on the November ballot
Post by: The Fuzz on September 13, 2018, 01:16:54 AM
That makes our initiative even better yet Mav!

GO POT!
Title: Re: These are the statewide initiatives voters will see on the November ballot
Post by: Maverick on September 13, 2018, 08:39:00 AM
I agree, If the government taxes it too much it just keeps the black market alive and thriving. I know that if I was forced to pay 30 % I would avoid it. The government doesn't deserve that much of my hard earned money although they're getting that much or more now !!
Title: Re: These are the statewide initiatives voters will see on the November ballot
Post by: nails on September 14, 2018, 04:40:23 PM

Glad to see the old rich white guys are turning cool.

Many of the "old rich white guys of today"  are the   "young stoners of yesterday".
Title: Re: These are the statewide initiatives voters will see on the November ballot
Post by: nails on September 14, 2018, 04:46:15 PM

I'm sticking with my prediction of 65 - 35

Wow . . . You're good !

You were predicting the race between Cuomo and Nixon in NY primaries, right.

Title: Re: These are the statewide initiatives voters will see on the November ballot
Post by: The Fuzz on September 14, 2018, 06:16:01 PM
Many of the "old rich white guys of today"  are the   "young stoners of yesterday".

And I've said for years that eventually exactly what you just said.  I thought though because of the age of most voters that it would take another full to half generation before this would pass in any state.

Most old stoners know it's relatively harmless if under control, unlike alcohol, nor do they believe any crazy high statistic thrown out there that it is a ladder drug.  There will always be abusers.....Pot, Booze, Opiods but if I were an abuser I would pick pot over any of the others. 

GO POT!
Title: Re: These are the statewide initiatives voters will see on the November ballot
Post by: Maverick on September 14, 2018, 07:55:23 PM
I knew stoners in high school who were complete idiots and are still complete idiots today. I also knew stoners that were straight A students and they are still smart and successful today.
There probably a very small percentage of the American adult population that can say they never smoked pot. As the old white republican conservatives die off that percentage continues to decline.
Title: Re: These are the statewide initiatives voters will see on the November ballot
Post by: The Fuzz on September 14, 2018, 08:00:56 PM
Yup, same here Mav.

Something else noteworthy.....all the kids who had problems with the booze are now dead, yet when I go back to my old stomping grounds I see the old stoners are still around.
Title: More Older Americans Are Turning To Marijuana
Post by: BigRedDog on September 15, 2018, 08:51:39 AM
I talk to older veterans all the time that are finally discovering the benefits of marijuana over other more traditional pain management. 

I've often heard it was the pharmaceutical companies that got marijuana banned decades ago and that they're still the ain funding source behind repealing the ban.  As in so many issues in politics just "follow the money" and you'll soon figure out what is happening and if something will benefit the people or big business.


Related article:  https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/09/12/646423762/more-older-americans-are-turning-to-marijuana?sc=tw (https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/09/12/646423762/more-older-americans-are-turning-to-marijuana?sc=tw)

Title: Re: These are the statewide initiatives voters will see on the November ballot
Post by: The Fuzz on September 15, 2018, 08:56:55 AM
Huh, I never thought of the motivation from the pharmaceutical companies!

GO POT!

Title: Re: These are the statewide initiatives voters will see on the November ballot
Post by: BigRedDog on September 15, 2018, 09:32:47 AM
Huh, I never thought of the motivation from the pharmaceutical companies!

GO POT!


(http://comments.gurgaonscoop.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/q08-Raheja-quote-follow-the-money.jpg)
Title: Re: These are the statewide initiatives voters will see on the November ballot
Post by: The Fuzz on September 17, 2018, 06:26:59 PM
Coca-Cola is eyeballing a market segment of the pot industry now.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/2018/09/17/coca-cola-cannabis-pot-marijauna-drinks/37846717/ (https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/2018/09/17/coca-cola-cannabis-pot-marijauna-drinks/37846717/)

GO POT!
Title: Re: These are the statewide initiatives voters will see on the November ballot
Post by: The Fuzz on September 20, 2018, 08:31:12 AM
Good read.  Even NRML, and most casual users, recognize pot does not belong in the workplace.....right along with alcohol.

Passage of the ballot initiative isn't going to change workplace usage, but what is screwed up is the testing methods of when a person last got a buzz and how much is in his system. People who intend to jump into the market, and organizations that would benefit from passage should be investing money into research for a testing method that clearly defines how much is in your system, and an approximate time period (3 to 4 hours) when you captured your last buzz.

What I don't think is fair is a person to lose out on a job opportunity, or be fired, if a test shows positive for trace amounts over a period of the last 3 to 6 months.  The testing needs to catch up with the same accuracy used for alcohol....something quantitative and time sensitive.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/marijuana/2018/09/20/marijuana-legalization-michigan-employers/1361074002/?from=new-cookie (https://www.freep.com/story/news/marijuana/2018/09/20/marijuana-legalization-michigan-employers/1361074002/?from=new-cookie)

https://www.freep.com/story/news/marijuana/2018/09/20/marijuana-legalization-michigan-employers/1361074002/?from=new-cookie (https://www.freep.com/story/news/marijuana/2018/09/20/marijuana-legalization-michigan-employers/1361074002/?from=new-cookie)

GO POT!
Title: Re: These are the statewide initiatives voters will see on the November ballot
Post by: blue2 on September 20, 2018, 10:21:28 AM
I'm still of opinion that only people with Doctors approval for a know symptom would be allowed to be in the work place with a minimum level of marijuana in their system.
I'd rather not have to work with people that have to use marijuana to get through the day, especially in a dangerous environment.
Title: Re: These are the statewide initiatives voters will see on the November ballot
Post by: Monroe Native on September 20, 2018, 04:59:57 PM
I'm still of opinion that only people with Doctors approval for a know symptom would be allowed to be in the work place with a minimum level of marijuana in their system.
I'd rather not have to work with people that have to use marijuana to get through the day, especially in a dangerous environment.

I agree that, but extend the thought to all drugs including Alcohol.
Title: Re: These are the statewide initiatives voters will see on the November ballot
Post by: blue2 on September 20, 2018, 06:33:32 PM
Alcohol was on the list where i worked.  If you got caught in a random test it was a suspension the first time.  and after that you might get tested more often and eventually fired
Title: Re: These are the statewide initiatives voters will see on the November ballot
Post by: The Fuzz on September 22, 2018, 10:08:12 AM
I'm still of opinion that only people with Doctors approval for a know symptom would be allowed to be in the work place with a minimum level of marijuana in their system.
I'd rather not have to work with people that have to use marijuana to get through the day, especially in a dangerous environment.

And their lies the problem......the tests are not quantitative, it's pass/fail for presence of THC which can show in your system for up to 6 months.
Title: Re: These are the statewide initiatives voters will see on the November ballot
Post by: Monroe Native on September 22, 2018, 09:39:30 PM
And their lies the problem......the tests are not quantitative, it's pass/fail for presence of THC which can show in your system for up to 6 months.

Sounds like a good reason to stay away from it if you value employment.
Title: Re: These are the statewide initiatives voters will see on the November ballot
Post by: The Fuzz on September 22, 2018, 10:14:23 PM
I agree!  Did I say otherwise?

My view is that a dude who smoked a joint socially with several others at a social gathering 5 months ago should not be an issue....NOW, if they had a test that had quantitative results and truly told the story if you were under the influence at the time, like alcohol, then I could possibly support it.

I have never once said I support someone being stoned at the workplace.
Title: Re: These are the statewide initiatives voters will see on the November ballot
Post by: blue2 on September 23, 2018, 10:52:23 AM
I drink alcohol once in awhile because i like the taste of a few of the drinks.
I use to smoke cigs but not sure why anymore.  Does weed taste really good? And is that the reason people do it? 
I think it might be more that they have issues and want to leave them behind for awhile.  I don't think i'm the exception and don't feel like i need weed to feel better.
Title: Re: These are the statewide initiatives voters will see on the November ballot
Post by: The Fuzz on September 23, 2018, 10:58:15 AM
Taste is always a subjective thing that varies from individual to individual.  I've tasted both and I think pot has more of a taste to it than the smoky taste of tobacco.

It's not the taste that pot smokers are attracted to at all, it's the slight buzz of euphoria yet not severe enough to make you non-functional or delusional.

Obviously, my opinion is that it should be allowed for recreational use and would furthermore go as far to say that alcohol because of its debilitating behavioral impact should be more controlled than pot.
Title: Re: These are the statewide initiatives voters will see on the November ballot
Post by: Professor H on September 23, 2018, 11:40:30 AM
Never was called to a pot smoking incident in 30 years that caused injury

 -  but saw many Drunks fight/wreck/kill themselves and others