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Categories => Politics and Government => Topic started by: Professor H on January 02, 2019, 12:28:53 PM

Title: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: Professor H on January 02, 2019, 12:28:53 PM
I'll leave these promises here to see how long it takes... 

1.   Repeal the retirement tax
2.   Fix the damn roads
3.   Make healthcare affordable
4.   Better skills better jobs
5.   Opoid crisis
Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: Monroe Native on January 02, 2019, 05:56:10 PM
And she starts her "non-partisan" lets all get along mantra by turning back on the "free" bottled water for Flint and "ordering" all state employees to "blow the whistle" on all the unsafe dangerous things that Snyder had been covering up.

Yep - way to get off on the right foot there *****.
Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: eriemermaid on January 03, 2019, 12:26:16 AM
Your #1 is too late for me.  I now have a Florida address! 
Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: Professor H on January 03, 2019, 01:04:29 PM
Your #1 is too late for me.  I now have a Florida address! 
Florida just gets it a different way...  they tax everything down there
Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: Monroe Native on January 03, 2019, 05:26:12 PM
I still don't understand the logic that Pensions should be tax free while 401K plans should be taxed.

I guess it is a generational thing.

If you have a pension - you don't want it taxed.  If you have a pension you probably don't care if your kids 401K gets taxed.

Again - not logical that one should be tax free and the other one shouldn't be.
Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: Professor H on January 03, 2019, 06:59:47 PM
Used to be protected in the Constitution -  but like guns...  their are some who ignore the constitution as a pesky thing...
Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: Monroe Native on January 03, 2019, 07:45:17 PM
Used to be protected in the Constitution -  but like guns...  their are some who ignore the constitution as a pesky thing...

I don't see anything that says that Pension Plans can't be taxed in the Constitution.

Heck - it doesn't even say you HAVE to give a pension plan.

https://www.mackinac.org/16610 (https://www.mackinac.org/16610)
Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: blue2 on January 03, 2019, 08:43:09 PM
I took my pension 14 years ago in a lump sum and rolled into a 401..I haven't paid any Mich state income tax on any of the withdrawals.  Had I taken. monthly annuity it would have been taxable.  Something messed up in the tax laws.
Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: Monroe Native on January 07, 2019, 05:51:52 PM
Well - the roads really suck, but Whitmer has made it safe for everyone - no matter what letter of the alphabet they identify as.  Heck - you might as well claim multiple letters.  All you have to do is get a job with the State or a State Contractor.

https://www.mlive.com/news/2019/01/gov-whitmer-signs-order-strengthening-lgbt-protections-in-state-government.html (https://www.mlive.com/news/2019/01/gov-whitmer-signs-order-strengthening-lgbt-protections-in-state-government.html)
Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: Maverick on January 08, 2019, 09:13:50 AM
Paving the road to ruin with our tax dollars
Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: Monroe Native on January 08, 2019, 05:17:07 PM
The new Governator isn't done yet making sure we all pay top dollar for whatever services we get from our state employees.

Yes - Gretchen has a pen and a phone, and she has been furiously using both to achieve the social justice utopia in State Government that we all crave.

Her latest act?  Equal pay for equal work.  Yep - no more paying someone less just because they have a vagina instead of a penis.

Now - what isn't clear to me......  how do you measure this?  I mean - typically you are paid based on what certifications you have, and how much experience.

So - if you have two workers - both 30 years old, and one has 10 years experience and the other has 2 years experience - do you pay both of them the same?

I'd like the Gov to clarify exactly what she is advocating.

She shouldn't have an issue with that right?  I mean she is all about transparency.

Well - at the very least she created more Government positions in all the departments - the Equity and Inclusion Officers - so I'm POSITIVE the citizens of the state of Michigan will get a TON of value from the valuable work those individuals do!

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2019/01/08/whitmer-signs-equal-pay-equal-work-rules/2513819002/ (https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2019/01/08/whitmer-signs-equal-pay-equal-work-rules/2513819002/)
Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: Professor H on January 09, 2019, 09:53:01 AM
I don't see anything that says that Pension Plans can't be taxed in the Constitution.

Heck - it doesn't even say you HAVE to give a pension plan.

https://www.mackinac.org/16610 (https://www.mackinac.org/16610)

Lots of things don't have to be provided by government -  Law enforcement Fire protection for instance aren't mandated... 

Here's the wording in the constitution:
Defined-benefit pensions in government plans are protected by Article 9, Sec. 24, of the Michigan Constitution, which states, “The accrued financial benefits of each pension plan and retirement system of the state and its political subdivisions shall be a contractual obligation thereof which shall not be diminished


but as we see people no longer believe the words "SHALL NOT"  mean what they do - 

Shall not be infringed is a great example! 
Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: Monroe Native on January 09, 2019, 01:09:56 PM
Lots of things don't have to be provided by government -  Law enforcement Fire protection for instance aren't mandated... 

Here's the wording in the constitution:
Defined-benefit pensions in government plans are protected by Article 9, Sec. 24, of the Michigan Constitution, which states, “The accrued financial benefits of each pension plan and retirement system of the state and its political subdivisions shall be a contractual obligation thereof which shall not be diminished


but as we see people no longer believe the words "SHALL NOT"  mean what they do - 

Shall not be infringed is a great example!

Lets just say that you are reading things into it that aren't there.

Fair enough?

I can assume that since taxing pensions stood up to all the court challenges we can both agree that your interpretation was not upheld?
Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: Monroe Native on January 09, 2019, 01:12:15 PM
Lots of things don't have to be provided by government -  Law enforcement Fire protection for instance aren't mandated... 


LOL.

In the City of Monroe they aren't providing fire protection - unless calling Monroe Township to do the job counts as "providing."

They are sure taxing the citizens for it though!
Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: John Kopke on January 10, 2019, 07:33:07 PM
Lots of things don't have to be provided by government -  Law enforcement Fire protection for instance aren't mandated... 

Here's the wording in the constitution:
Defined-benefit pensions in government plans are protected by Article 9, Sec. 24, of the Michigan Constitution, which states, “The accrued financial benefits of each pension plan and retirement system of the state and its political subdivisions shall be a contractual obligation thereof which shall not be diminished


but as we see people no longer believe the words "SHALL NOT"  mean what they do - 

Shall not be infringed is a great example! 

Well it could be argued that taxing pension pay outs does diminish the amount the state pensioner receives. But are we talking gross or net?
Net obviously being after taxes. Yet when they put in that the pension
"cannot diminished clause" there was no state income tax on state pensions.
Was this addressed in this article of the constitution?  I can only surmise
that since the tax isn't tied up in the courts it's legal.

But then there's this for me. Why do state government workers even get a constitutional guarantee on the gross pay out? I'm sure the Central States
Teamster pensioners, who will be lucky to get 50% of the gross they were promised, would trade places.

 
Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: John Kopke on January 10, 2019, 07:56:34 PM
"Fix the damn roads" she says. Good line, a real campaign winner. But the issue has never been about whether people want better roads, they do. The issue has always been paying for them. So what is Gov. Jennifer Whitmer's plan to pay for them? Excuse me Gretchen. I didn't pay much attention to her campaign so maybe I missed it, but I read enough so if she put something concrete out there I would have heard about it.

Here's my guess. Taxes will go up. Well how come when government makes an "investment" on something it doesn't resolve anything so we can stop spending on it, and thereby re-direct the money elsewhere? Because it's government, not a business.     
Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: Monroe Native on January 18, 2019, 09:27:51 PM
"Fix the Damn Roads" was one heck of a campaign slogan, and may have won her the election.

Whitmer has a new slogan now.  "It's going to take awhile."

No shite Sherlock.....

Quote
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2019/01/18/whitmer-fixing-damn-roads-going-take-time/2608481002/
Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: blue2 on January 19, 2019, 09:16:13 AM
Whenever I get to the Detroit and Lansing areas all I see is reconstruction of freeways and new ones.
Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: John Kopke on March 06, 2019, 06:10:10 PM
"Fix the damn roads" she says. Good line, a real campaign winner. But the issue has never been about whether people want better roads, they do. The issue has always been paying for them. So what is Gov. "Jennifer" Whitmer's plan to pay for them? Excuse me Gretchen. I didn't pay much attention to her campaign so maybe I missed it, but I read enough so if she put something concrete out there I would have heard about it.

Here's my guess. Taxes will go up. Well how come when government makes an "investment" on something it doesn't resolve anything so we can stop spending on it, and thereby re-direct the money elsewhere? Because it's government, not a business.     

That is what I wrote back on Jan. 10th.

Now "Jennifer" Whitmer has come forth with a 45 cent per gallon gas tax to fix the damn roads. Five months ago, in debate, when accused of fixing to raise the gas tax 20 cents per gallon, she said that was ridiculous, as in no way. One might assume she meant there was no way she'd raise gas taxes by such an absurdly high amount. Well if one assumed that was what she meant, you would be wrong. She planned to more than double that absurdly high amount!       

Apparently back in 2015 we had vote on raising gas taxes for roads and it flamed out 80-20
against. So obviously voters tend not to be interested in higher gas taxes. So Whitmer just talked fixing the roads, leaving out the part about paying for them. And it worked. Voters elected her. Well all I have to say is enjoy, it's going to be a long 4 years.

I have another prediction. The upcoming budget come June will not be passed when it's supposed to be. Then the folks will start to realize we have Jennifer Granholm II.
 
   
Pukes in state legislature seem to be balking. So where does that leave us?
Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: Monroe Native on March 06, 2019, 06:13:35 PM
Pukes in state legislature seem to be balking. So where does that leave us?

It leaves me hoping that all the Democrats efforts to redraw the districts isn't enough to swing the Legislature their way, but frankly I expect them to gerrymander it to their own advantage if they can.
Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: Monroe Native on March 06, 2019, 06:20:43 PM
Here she is - smiling and calling Schitte a liar.

https://youtu.be/Jvjp6LN63ZQ

Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: Monroe Native on March 06, 2019, 06:26:54 PM
Wow.  Just Wow.

All that tax wouldn't go for the roads.  Nope - we would use it to divert General Funds currently going to the roads to other things - and then use part of the new funds for other things.

This is just typical classic tax and spend politicians.

How did she get elected?  Oh yeah - she had a catchy slogan and she smiled when she lied.

Quote
Whitmer’s plan would generate an estimated $1.2 billion in new money for roads in fiscal year 2020 and a projected $2.5 billion when fully implemented in fiscal year 2021.

But Whitmer’s budget would also eliminate a general fund diversion planned under the 2015 road funding law signed by Snyder — set to reach $325 million in 2020 and $600 million in 2021. That shift would free up general fund revenue to cover university operation costs, which Whitmer wants to stop paying out of the School Aid Fund.

A portion of the new gas tax revenue — $21 million in 2020 and $42 million in 2021 —would also be constitutionally earmarked for the Department of Natural Resources Recreation Improvement Fund.

All told, the administration says the plan would increase dedicated road and bridge spending — not including one-time funding approved by lawmakers last year in supplemental budgets — by $917.5 million in 2020 and $2.1 billion in 2021.

]https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2019/03/06/whitmer-flak-calling-gas-tax-hike-ridiculous/3081060002/[url] (https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2019/03/06/whitmer-flak-calling-gas-tax-hike-ridiculous/3081060002/[url)[/url]
Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: blue2 on March 06, 2019, 07:02:56 PM
It really would be nice to see how much state gas tax is collected now and how much of it is spent on roads.
Just like overweight truck fines going to librarys..How stupid to put up with that
Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: John Kopke on March 06, 2019, 07:12:55 PM
Wow.  Just Wow.

All that tax wouldn't go for the roads.  Nope - we would use it to divert General Funds currently going to the roads to other things - and then use part of the new funds for other things.

This is just typical classic tax and spend politicians.

How did she get elected?  Oh yeah - she had a catchy slogan and she smiled when she lied.

[url]https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2019/03/06/whitmer-flak-calling-gas-tax-hike-ridiculous/3081060002/[/url][url]]]https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2019/03/06/whitmer-flak-calling-gas-tax-hike-ridiculous/3081060002/[url] ([url]https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2019/03/06/whitmer-flak-calling-gas-tax-hike-ridiculous/3081060002/[/url][url=http://)[/url]


She didn't lie, she deceived.
Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: Monroe Native on March 07, 2019, 05:57:23 PM
I'm glad there are still adults in Lansing.

https://www.mlive.com/news/2019/03/whitmers-45-cent-gas-tax-hike-plan-nonstarter-in-house-speaker-lee-chatfield-says.html (https://www.mlive.com/news/2019/03/whitmers-45-cent-gas-tax-hike-plan-nonstarter-in-house-speaker-lee-chatfield-says.html)
Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: blue2 on March 07, 2019, 06:02:26 PM
Politicians are just a bunch of lying Btards. They took OTP funds a few years to fix other roads. OTP funds where restricted by law to stay for TP improvements.  So much for laws when it comes to politicians
Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: Monroe Native on March 07, 2019, 07:33:25 PM
Politicians are just a bunch of lying Btards. They took OTP funds a few years to fix other roads. OTP funds where restricted by law to stay for TP improvements.  So much for laws when it comes to politicians

They don't lie.  They just deceive.

I fail to see the difference.
Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: John Kopke on March 08, 2019, 07:23:12 PM
They don't lie.  They just deceive.

I fail to see the difference.

Well they're both honorable traits. In Whitmer's case, she both lied, and deceived. She lied when she said it was ridiculous that she would raise gas taxes 20 cents to fix the roads. Her deception was to give the impression that gas taxes aren't going up, or at least, not by much.
Once elected she gives us, not 20 cents, but 45 cents.

Hello.

If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. Period. If you like your current health insurance, you can keep your current health insurance. Period.       
Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: Monroe Native on March 08, 2019, 07:26:02 PM
It appears as if her strategy is to fail, and then blame the Republicans for everything.

There is no way this budget gets done on time.
Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: jbs49238 on March 24, 2019, 11:00:57 PM
I still don't understand the logic that Pensions should be tax free while 401K plans should be taxed.

I guess it is a generational thing.

If you have a pension - you don't want it taxed.  If you have a pension you probably don't care if your kids 401K gets taxed.

Again - not logical that one should be tax free and the other one shouldn't be.

Never understood the bugaboo about the tax either.  Hmmmmm.... income you made in Michigan and never paid tax on (i.e. free Democrat handout) and now you complaint that you have to pay taxes (your fair share of taxes).  Oh I hit it on the head... Democrats hate paying their fair share when there is a hard working stiff able to do it for them.
Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: Professor H on March 28, 2019, 12:08:41 PM
Never understood the bugaboo about the tax either.  Hmmmmm.... income you made in Michigan and never paid tax on (i.e. free Democrat handout) and now you complaint that you have to pay taxes (your fair share of taxes).  Oh I hit it on the head... Democrats hate paying their fair share when there is a hard working stiff able to do it for them.

Never could figure out how it was put in the Constitution...  but its there - 

But the AG opinion "changed"  cause they needed more $$   -   

Instead they just had people move to States that don't tax  so the net gain/loss is not much. 

Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: Monroe Native on March 31, 2019, 08:35:24 AM
Another example of Whitmer and Dana playing politics instead of creating jobs and making sure the State has the energy it needs to operate.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/editorials/2019/03/31/editorial-stick-tunnel-line-5-solution/3309259002/ (https://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/editorials/2019/03/31/editorial-stick-tunnel-line-5-solution/3309259002/)
Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: Monroe Native on April 01, 2019, 07:53:37 PM
Okay - I'll admit it - I'm confused.

It's cold outside = State Emergency.

Tornado = business as usual.

Uhhhhhhhh........  I'm guessing not very many voted for her there?

https://www.mlive.com/news/flint/2019/04/governor-denies-state-of-emergency-for-shiawassee-county-after-tornado.html (https://www.mlive.com/news/flint/2019/04/governor-denies-state-of-emergency-for-shiawassee-county-after-tornado.html)

Maybe she really does hate any part of the State not named Detroit, Flint, Saginaw, Bay City, etc.
Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: John Kopke on April 04, 2019, 08:14:42 PM
I still don't understand the logic that Pensions should be tax free while 401K plans should be taxed.

I guess it is a generational thing.

If you have a pension - you don't want it taxed.  If you have a pension you probably don't care if your kids 401K gets taxed.

Again - not logical that one should be tax free and the other one shouldn't be.

MN:

Right on. Companies offering their employees pensions write off the pension contributions as an expense, which it is. They pay no taxes on this money. Then under a "no tax on pension" policy the retirees pay no taxes. It's a wonderful thing for both parties. Nobody pays any taxes on this money. But what about folks like me who worked for small companies that didn't offer a pension, or even contributions toward 401K? Every dollar that went into the 401K came from me. Yet when I take this money out in retirement, I get taxed on it. Is that fair? Of course it isn't. So what's the deal?

The deal is people like me are individuals with little, if any political clout, other than our single vote, have very little leverage. On the other hand those pushing for tax free pensions have powerful unions etc. putting the squeeze on the pols.

Then there's this. If they repeal the pension tax it will cost the state $ 300 million in tax revenue. Do you think they'll make cuts to offset the lost revenue? Not a chance. They'll come up with increased taxes from everyone to cover it. So not only do people like me continue paying taxes on our 401K money, we'll also be hit to come up with our share to cover the $ 300 million. Those getting tax free pension money will also have to pay more, but it will only be a fraction of the money they saved not having to pay taxes on their pensions. 

Joe Bellino (R) had an op-ed in Detroit News pushing for eliminating taxes on pensions.
I'm going to have a serious talk with Joe. I'll report back.
 

   
Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: blue2 on April 04, 2019, 09:07:56 PM
I was under the impression if I took a month pension check from my employer the state of Mich would tax it.  If I rolled it into a 401 type account the state does not tax it.  as a matter of fact I paid zero state taxes and got $4 refund
Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: Monroe Native on April 04, 2019, 09:11:24 PM


Joe Bellino (R) had an op-ed in Detroit News pushing for eliminating taxes on pensions.
I'm going to have a serious talk with Joe. I'll report back.
 

   

Can you let Joe that I couldn't disagree with his position more?

You are spot on.  We will pay taxes on our 401K money, and we will pay even more taxes so the Unions that are bribing him to take this position never have to pay taxes.

I totally agreed with Snyder that taxing pensions was about being fundamentally fair - and treating everyone the same.

I guess Joe doesn't believe in that?

Let me know his take on it.
Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: Professor H on April 05, 2019, 12:27:28 PM
Okay - I'll admit it - I'm confused.

It's cold outside = State Emergency.

Tornado = business as usual.

Uhhhhhhhh........  I'm guessing not very many voted for her there?

https://www.mlive.com/news/flint/2019/04/governor-denies-state-of-emergency-for-shiawassee-county-after-tornado.html (https://www.mlive.com/news/flint/2019/04/governor-denies-state-of-emergency-for-shiawassee-county-after-tornado.html)

Maybe she really does hate any part of the State not named Detroit, Flint, Saginaw, Bay City, etc.

Its not an area she knew was in Michigan I'm guessing?   

Sad to see the actual definition of Emergency being politicized and ignored for one that happens in an area that doesn't get much media attention
Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: Professor H on April 05, 2019, 12:33:18 PM
I was under the impression if I took a month pension check from my employer the state of Mich would tax it.  If I rolled it into a 401 type account the state does not tax it.  as a matter of fact I paid zero state taxes and got $4 refund

401K is the new "Pension" for most places as they don't want to be bothered with actuarials - and 'funding'

Tax free going in - allowed to grow tax free,  that's the front end tax benefit.    Then when you start to take distributions -  (Your choice of amount)  you pay taxes - at that rate. 

they didn't have em likely when the pension language was put in the Michigan Constitution -  that's why it wasn't covered. 

Would have preferred a vote at least vs just a AG opinion reversal and Supreme court wink wink - 

But hey they chased enough away -  I requested but never received  the  gain/loss   data.
Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: John Kopke on April 06, 2019, 07:10:12 PM
I was under the impression if I took a month pension check from my employer the state of Mich would tax it.  If I rolled it into a 401 type account the state does not tax it.  as a matter of fact I paid zero state taxes and got $4 refund

Blue2:

If you roll pension money into a 401K it won't be taxed "until" you take it out. Funny thing is,
if you did this, and they change the pension tax law, you'll need to stop putting the money into the 401K to forgo taxes. Gotta love government.
Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: blue2 on April 07, 2019, 10:49:13 AM
Im not an expert on pensions or taxes.  I took a lump sum payout at retirement instead of monthly annuity..I rolled it into an investment.  I have been drawing off of it for 15 years and my tax preparer has said I do not owe Michigan any state tax.  And I haven't paid any for 15 years.
Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: Monroe Native on May 10, 2019, 01:46:14 PM
Whitless is just incredible.

Gonna veto shite that makes sense - and is in her budget - well - just because.

What a Moron.

She doesn't appear to want to get anything done.

https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2019/05/whitmer-vetos-10m-to-refill-compensation-fund-for-wrongfully-imprisoned.html (https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2019/05/whitmer-vetos-10m-to-refill-compensation-fund-for-wrongfully-imprisoned.html)
Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: John Kopke on June 26, 2019, 07:56:56 PM

Back on January 10, 2019 at the end of a post I wrote:

I have another prediction. The upcoming budget come June will not be passed when it's supposed to be. Then the folks will start to realize we have Jennifer Granholm II.

I was right as Whitmer slams Republicans for not passing a budget. The "fix the damn roads lady" apparently is upset budget hasn't passed with her 45 cent per gallon tax increase. 
   
Pukes in state legislature seem to be balking. So where does that leave us?

Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: Monroe Native on June 26, 2019, 09:35:30 PM


It leaves us with the Democrats waiting for their court drawn districts that they are convinced will let them raise any tax they want to.
Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: John Kopke on June 28, 2019, 11:22:13 PM
It leaves us with the Democrats waiting for their court drawn districts that they are convinced will let them raise any tax they want to.

MN:

I think the Supreme Court just nixed this.
Title: Re: Gov. Whitmer
Post by: Monroe Native on June 28, 2019, 11:29:57 PM
MN:

I think the Supreme Court just nixed this.

So they have to wait longer - until their "non partisan" citizen commission gets it done.