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Categories => Politics and Government => Topic started by: Bob Beadles on September 11, 2007, 04:23:04 PM

Title: Enough
Post by: Bob Beadles on September 11, 2007, 04:23:04 PM
                 In “Enough”, Juan Williams became the latest in a long line of free thinking black writers to suggest that the Democratic Party has done nothing to benefit black people.
   When Lyndon B. Johnson initiated his “war on poverty” programs, Democrats predicted that they would eliminate poverty within the black community.
   Not everyone agreed with the Democrats. In “The Vision of the Anointed” Thomas Sowell wrote: “A diametrically opposite set of beliefs and predictions came from critics of the “war on poverty” proposals. Senator Barry Goldwater predicted that these programs would “encourage poverty” by encouraging “more and more people to join the ranks of those being taken care of by the government.””
   What no one suggested at the time was that dependence on government is what Democrats wanted for black people. As long as a sizeable section of the black community believes that the subsistence income they are receiving from the government is as much as they can hope for, they will continue to vote for Democrats as Democrat policies keep them mired in poverty. The fact that Democrats continue to praise the “war on poverty” programs despite their obvious adverse effects on the black community demonstrates what Democrats really care about. Democrats care about the black vote not black people.
   In “Invisible Man”,  Ralph Ellison describes the statue of a founder of a black college: “Then in my mind’s eye I see the bronze statue of the college Founder, the cold Father symbol, his hands outstretched in the breathtaking gesture of lifting a veil that flutters in hard, metallic folds above the face of a kneeling slave; and I am standing puzzled, unable to decide whether the veil is really being lifted, or lowered more firmly in place; whether I am witnessing a revelation or a more efficient blinding.”
   If that statue actually existed it would look like L.B.J. and it would represent the Democratic Party. While Democrats claim to institute programs that help blacks, their programs are only aimed at getting black votes. If Democratic programs helped more blacks to become affluent, those blacks might not see the need to vote for Democrats. Democrats would see that as a much greater tragedy than black poverty.
Title: Re: Enough
Post by: sue lee on September 11, 2007, 04:41:32 PM
Enough is right. Your hatred of so called liberals and skewed facts are boring. What exactly is a liberal?
Title: Re: Enough
Post by: lordfly on September 11, 2007, 11:40:18 PM
Enough is right. Your hatred of so called liberals and skewed facts are boring. What exactly is a liberal?
Someone who's left of you.

Everybody's moderate in their own head.

Title: Re: Enough
Post by: Will Sweat on September 12, 2007, 07:21:30 AM
Sue Lee wrote:

Quote
Your hatred of so called liberals and skewed facts are boring. What exactly is a liberal?

Did I miss something from this post or another one?  I read Mr. Beadles post a few times and he did not mention the "liberal" word once?  His post seemed more like note cards from a book report, citing his source of information. 

I have read both Enough (Juan Williams) and much of Ralph Ellison's novel, Invisible Man.  Both are interesting. 

Is there a history with Mr. Beadles that I am unaware?  What fact's from his post do you see as "skewed"?  To me it appears as if he is doing nothing but offering his take on someones quotes / opinions.  Again, am I missing something? 
Title: Re: Enough
Post by: zard0z on September 12, 2007, 09:20:44 AM

Did I miss something from this post or another one?  I read Mr. Beadles post a few times and he did not mention the "liberal" word once?  



I think that is in reference to the Democratic Party...
Title: Re: Enough
Post by: sue lee on September 12, 2007, 11:09:32 AM
Will,
try his "Conservative vs liberal" post, or "Right vs Left", then of course, there is pot smoking for liberals.
Title: Re: Enough
Post by: Bob Beadles on September 12, 2007, 12:48:39 PM
A liberal is someone who worships at the altar of big government. The words socialist, communist or progressive all serve as good synonyms for liberal.
Title: Re: Enough
Post by: chuntley on September 12, 2007, 02:16:36 PM
Not all Black People are Members of the Democrate Party, Like all Caucasians are not members of the Republican party.

Not all Americans living at or below Poverty are Black. The majority of people living off the welfare system are likewise, not Black. Just 5%of the U.S. population is on public assistance. 1% of the Federal Budget is devoted to welfare.

The Census Bureau's most recent annual poverty report found that urban Black Mothers constitue less than 1 out of 6 of all poor households. Rural White families accounted for more--- 1 out of 5. WHITE suburban families accounted for even more-- 1 out of 4.

The war on Poverty was ment for all Americans, Red,Yellow Black and White.

This information can be found by Googling " welfare myths"
Title: Re: Enough
Post by: lordfly on September 12, 2007, 04:56:47 PM
A liberal is someone who worships at the altar of big government. The words socialist, communist or progressive all serve as good synonyms for liberal.

So what is a conservative? Someone who worships at the altar of big government with guns?
Title: Re: Enough
Post by: Will Sweat on September 12, 2007, 06:57:53 PM
Quote
Will,
try his "Conservative vs liberal" post, or "Right vs Left", then of course, there is pot smoking for liberals.


Oh, OK.  Thanks.

Quote
Everybody's moderate in their own head.

How true. 
Title: Re: Enough
Post by: John Kopke on September 12, 2007, 10:14:40 PM
Bob's initial thread in this topic is spot on. Beyond establishing a mentality of entitlement and dependence LBJ's war on poverty has further destroyed the black family. If you have more babies
you get more benefits, that is, unless there is a man in the house.

Inner city schools are a disgrace. But nothing changes. Dems blame it on a lack of money. Yet Wash. DC schools spend $12K per year per student and are some of the worst in the country. Something
dramatic needs to change. Yet whom puts the Kabash on trying something to reverse the trend?
Democrats.  Why? Because the teachers unions own them.  Example:

Philanthopist offered to spend 200 million to 15 build charter schools in Detroit. Initially Kwame
and Granholm thought it was a good idea. What happened? Detroit teachers abandoned their students in the classroom to stage a one day protest in Lansing. Result. Mayor and Governor
folded like cheap tents. Clearly, there was no contest for the Dems when they had to weigh
the future of these students versus losing the support of the teachers unions. This is just
one example of many.

Another related gripe I have with Dems. Affirmative action.  Here are the Dems thwarting every
meaningful effort to improve the education of these kids and then insisting that they be given
college enterance preference based on race, because the deck is stacked against them.  Yes it
is, and they have the Dems to thank for it. 


Title: Re: Enough
Post by: SMASH on September 12, 2007, 11:12:59 PM
And all the while the Federal Reserve marches happily along. Cha Ching!
Title: Re: Enough
Post by: Matt (formerly ML) on September 13, 2007, 01:18:36 AM
A liberal is someone who worships at the altar of big government.

Not so long ago, that was not the case. There was a time when a liberal was a person who approached life with the motto "live and let live."

Jello Biafra describes the two-party (so-called) status-quo quite precisely:
"The Democrats are on the inside what the Republicans are on the outside..."

That's from "If Voting Changed Anything": http://tinyurl.com/2j958j
Title: Re: Enough
Post by: Bob Beadles on September 13, 2007, 09:34:07 AM
A true conservative is someone who believes in personal freedom. A true conservative wants to get the government off the individual citizen's back and out of the individual citizen's pocket.
Title: Re: Enough
Post by: riar on September 13, 2007, 09:15:22 PM
                 In “Enough”, Juan Williams became the latest in a long line of free thinking black writers to suggest that the Democratic Party has done nothing to benefit black people.
   When Lyndon B. Johnson initiated his “war on poverty” programs, Democrats predicted that they would eliminate poverty within the black community.
   Not everyone agreed with the Democrats. In “The Vision of the Anointed” Thomas Sowell wrote: “A diametrically opposite set of beliefs and predictions came from critics of the “war on poverty” proposals. Senator Barry Goldwater predicted that these programs would “encourage poverty” by encouraging “more and more people to join the ranks of those being taken care of by the government.””
   What no one suggested at the time was that dependence on government is what Democrats wanted for black people. As long as a sizeable section of the black community believes that the subsistence income they are receiving from the government is as much as they can hope for, they will continue to vote for Democrats as Democrat policies keep them mired in poverty. The fact that Democrats continue to praise the “war on poverty” programs despite their obvious adverse effects on the black community demonstrates what Democrats really care about. Democrats care about the black vote not black people.
   In “Invisible Man”,  Ralph Ellison describes the statue of a founder of a black college: “Then in my mind’s eye I see the bronze statue of the college Founder, the cold Father symbol, his hands outstretched in the breathtaking gesture of lifting a veil that flutters in hard, metallic folds above the face of a kneeling slave; and I am standing puzzled, unable to decide whether the veil is really being lifted, or lowered more firmly in place; whether I am witnessing a revelation or a more efficient blinding.”
   If that statue actually existed it would look like L.B.J. and it would represent the Democratic Party. While Democrats claim to institute programs that help blacks, their programs are only aimed at getting black votes. If Democratic programs helped more blacks to become affluent, those blacks might not see the need to vote for Democrats. Democrats would see that as a much greater tragedy than black poverty.


Sorry pal. Did a paper on Lowell's "Invisible Man." He's talking about "whitey" in general. It's about a man who went to your everlovin fishin pond from your post Conservative vs. Liberal, where everyone gets to fish, only he's black and not welcome.
Title: Re: Enough
Post by: John Kopke on September 13, 2007, 09:23:03 PM
riar:
Your point is cryptic. Not allowed to fish? OK whom to you mean to imply is preventing them from fishing today?
Title: Re: Enough
Post by: Kalandra on September 13, 2007, 09:42:22 PM
Okay, okay. All arguments aside, did someone seriously use Jello Biafra in an argument where credibility is everything? I'm an old "punker" myself and political enthusiast, but Biafra? Bah!


I too have read Ellison's Invisible Man and Williams' Enough . I think they are fantastic books.


Someone else cited the Bureau of Census and I would love to see the link they used.
Here are the facts I know.

- In 2004, 12.7 percent of all persons lived in poverty.
- In 1993 the poverty rate was 15.1 percent.
- Between 1993 and 2000, the poverty rate fell each year, reaching 11.3 percent in 2000. 
- Poverty has risen in each of the last four years.
- From 2003-2004 there were about 34.9 million Americans in poverty.
- The official poverty rate in 2006 was 12.3 percent, down from 12.6 percent in 2005.
- In 2006 there were 36.5 million Americans in poverty (very close to the figure for 2005)
 

Poverty rates in 2006 were statistically unchanged for non-Hispanic Whites (8.2 percent), Blacks (24.3
percent), and Asians (10.3 percent) from 2005. The poverty rate decreased for Hispanics (20.6 percent in 2006, down from 21.8 percent in 2005).


http://www.census.gov/prod/2007pubs/p60-233.pdf
http://npc.umich.edu/poverty/
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html



Chuntley, where in the heck did you spew your facts from? A homemade Google site?
Title: Re: Enough
Post by: chuntley on September 15, 2007, 06:45:08 AM
http://www.msu.edu/user/skourtes/myths.html

funny when fact are presented that Blacks are not the cause of the problems,,,, some people jump to the defense.

I simply googled : welfare statistics
Title: Re: Enough
Post by: chuntley on September 15, 2007, 07:25:38 AM
Why and I did not start the black and white thing?? Any lazy azz, be he black or white, that is sitting on their butts, sucking off the system ,, is the problem.  I have a brother-in-law (white) , that has his wife working 3 jobs,, while he sits at home. they receive,, i don't know how,, daycare money. I have worked all my life, never even collected unemployment ,, and I know a lot of other black people that are the in the same position. It pisses me off when I see these people from Monroe,, (west side and north side, south side, beaches and suburbs) collection ssi   because they are drug addicts and drunks or just fat and lazy and can not get a job. You see them all the time at walmart. Using government cards.

The Republican party deals with a divide and conquer attitude. If they throw some racial crap out there, you fools jump all over it. There are enough issues on the table right now. GAS PRICES,FORD MOTOR CLOSING,THE CEMENT PLANT,HOME VALUES DROPPING AND TAXES RISING.

drop the racial crap, we are all the same,, we all want the same things in life,,

I only posted the welfare myths, after a post about free thinking blacks.

Back during the slavery days, Free thinking Blacks were called "Run Aways".

I do agree with the elimination of free rides for all able bodies,including the overweight.
Drop the welfare system as we know it. No work, no eat.
Drop the affirmative action crap also. It did nothing for the black man.
Title: Re: Enough
Post by: riar on September 15, 2007, 10:34:17 AM
riar:
Your point is cryptic. Not allowed to fish? OK whom to you mean to imply is preventing them from fishing today?

First of all, I apologize, and Ralph Ellison is rolling over in his grave. I meant to say Ellison's "Invisivle Man" not James Lowell who I'm currently researching. I was talking to Bob. He took a section of "Invisible Man" out of context and scewed the meaning. The fishing pond is in reference to Bob's ideology in another of his posts. Your trying to provoke a black vs Repub white argument for current times and I have no interest.
Although "Battle Royal" by Ellison would be good for everyone to read. Then again if the message in "Invisible Man" falls by the wayside, what's the sense?
Title: Re: Enough
Post by: Normal Joe on September 15, 2007, 01:12:05 PM
If all the leaves on all the trees could talk...they couldn't even begin to say how liberal you are...You're not normal then huh?? :P
Title: Re: Enough
Post by: riar on September 15, 2007, 02:13:02 PM
A liberal is someone who worships at the altar of big government. The words socialist, communist or progressive all serve as good synonyms for liberal.

So what is a conservative? Someone who worships at the altar of big government with guns?

Someone who worships on the altar of me, mine, and eventually all mine.
Title: Re: Enough
Post by: riar on September 15, 2007, 02:25:53 PM
A liberal is someone who worships at the altar of big government. The words socialist, communist or progressive all serve as good synonyms for liberal.

Ask most liberals and they don't think in the context of government at all. They think in the realm of freedom for all as in a liberated people that can do what they want. I think of the two partes as embracing different economic policy that affects either the wealthy or the middle class.

When liberals speak against cons we don't see big or small government, the business of the thing as much as the personal. We tend to find you greedy and find something repulsive in it. ABC did a poll on who gives back to the needy the most and it wasn't even the standard middle class, but the lower middle class and poorer groups. The wealthy came last. You view liberals as wanting government issue lines or something really strange. I'm a liberal only because I believe it to be the lesser of two evils, not quite as greedy is all. I think conservative economics and the trickle down theory fails to inclue greed in the equation and is false in that sense, and ideology.
Title: Re: Enough
Post by: Kalandra on September 16, 2007, 04:22:03 PM
I could spend eons attempting to teach chuntley a thing or two about our welfare system, both good and bad, but considering his attitude - I won't even bother. A lost cause is a lost cause, politically.
I love the way people enjoy offending others on forums, though. And how the most vocally vulgar rarely have decent facts, just one sided rumors. It ends the discussion before it even begins.

And for that I am eternally grateful.
Title: Re: Enough
Post by: chuntley on September 18, 2007, 06:09:02 AM
Please teach me. If you would like, you could send me a letter through the personal message board here. I'm open for any education.