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John Kopke

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Re: Tax the rich!
« Reply #60 on: April 15, 2012, 11:21:41 PM »

Noble prize winner you say. Impressive. Yet still it means nothing. You didn't address the points I made in my post, you distracted. Which was the point I was making in my post. 
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John Kopke

sammy

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Re: Tax the rich!
« Reply #61 on: April 15, 2012, 11:24:01 PM »

There's a noble prize?
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LetsGoWings

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Re: Tax the rich!
« Reply #62 on: April 15, 2012, 11:34:52 PM »

Joseph Stiglitz, Nobel prize winner in economics. Sorry if I take his opinion over yours, Mr. Sellallmystocksandbuygold.

How about the same number as what is paid on REGULAR EARNINGS? Why does investment earnings deserve special treatment?

Not that I agree with John's opinion, he has most likely made out as a bandit by selling all his stocks and buying gold.

Also, it is mostly long term capital gains that receive special treatment, not short term capital gains. They receive special treatment because of the time value of money and inflation.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2012, 11:37:37 PM by LetsGoWings »
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Great advice from another poster on this forum, we should all live by this:

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Frenchfry

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Re: Tax the rich!
« Reply #63 on: April 15, 2012, 11:41:43 PM »

"In 2009, IRS commissioner Doug Shulman said in a speech that the IRS had formed a new group of auditors who were going to be directing their attention at a special group of taxpayers: the super rich. Dubbing them "global high wealth individuals," Shulman promised that his agency would be taking a hard look at people who had tens of millions of dollars worth of assets and income tied up in complicated financial dealings that often involved overseas banking and aggressive tax avoidance strategies...Two-and-a-half years later, though, the effort to target the super rich has proven underwhelming. According to a new study by the Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse (TRAC) at Syracuse University, the IRS has completed a mere 36 audits from the over-$10 million set since launching the global high wealth group...".

IRS Largely Ignores Super Rich
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John Kopke

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Re: Tax the rich!
« Reply #64 on: April 15, 2012, 11:48:28 PM »

Not that I agree with John's opinion, he has most likely made out as a bandit by selling all his stocks and buying gold.

Also, it is mostly long term capital gains that receive special treatment, not short term capital gains. They receive special treatment because of the time value of money and inflation.

LGW:

My name is mentioned in your post, but the point I'm making is absent. If we don't do something about our debt and deficit, the economy, jobs and a scary monetary policy we're toast. All this other stuff is a sideshow.   
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John Kopke

Frenchfry

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Re: Tax the rich!
« Reply #65 on: April 15, 2012, 11:55:01 PM »

LGW:

My name is mentioned in your post, but the point I'm making is absent. If we don't do something about our debt and deficit, the economy, jobs and a scary monetary policy we're toast. All this other stuff is a sideshow.   
And you know what the Party of NO will do with the Buffett Rule.
Yep, the making everything worse strategy is backfiring on the GOP.
Righties are going to take a beating in November.
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Frenchfry

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Re: Tax the rich!
« Reply #66 on: April 16, 2012, 12:00:10 AM »

President Barack Obama argued Sunday that his calls for wealthier Americans to pay a greater share of taxes aren’t about sharing the wealth, but about getting the American economy on a path for solid growth.

“That is not an argument about redistribution. That is an argument about growth,” Obama said in response to a reporter’s question at a news conference in Colombia. “In the history of the United States, we grow best when our growth is broad based.”

One of the themes of the Summit of the Americas meeting Obama attended here over the weekend was tackling poverty and inequality. That dovetails with aspects of Obama’s domestic message about unfairness in the tax code, but, as POLITICO noted here before the trip, it also left an opening for critics to paint him as emulating some in the Latin American left.

Asked about the parallels, Obama repeatedly sought to knock down any notion that his proposals, like the so-called Buffett Rule--which is headed for a Senate vote Monday--are aimed at spreading existing wealth around more evenly.

“This is not an argument about taking from A to give to B. This is not a redistributionist argument that we’re making. We’re making an argument about how do we grow the economy in a 21st century environment,” Obama said.
http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/04/obama-buffett-rule-not-about-spreading-wealth-120591.html
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Frenchfry

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Re: Tax the rich!
« Reply #67 on: April 16, 2012, 12:05:41 AM »

The Buffett Rule Explained
What's the deal with our current tax system?

Under the current U.S. tax system, a number of millionaires pay a smaller percentage of their income in taxes than a significant proportion of middle class families. Warren Buffett, for example, pays a lower effective tax rate than his secretary, and that’s not fair.

A full 22,000 households that made more than $1 million in 2009 paid less than 15 percent of their income in income taxes — and 1,470 managed to pay no federal income taxes on their million-plus-dollar incomes, according to the IRS.

And, the very wealthiest American households are paying nearly the lowest tax rate in 50 years— some are paying just half of the federal income tax that top income earners paid in 1960. But the average tax rate for middle class families has barely budged. The middle 20 percent of households paid 14 percent of their incomes in 1960, and 16 percent in 2010.
What is the Buffett Rule?

The Buffett Rule is a simple principle that everyone should pay their fair share in taxes. No household making more than a $1 million should pay a smaller share of their income in taxes than middle-class families pay. For the 98 percent of American families who make less than $250,000, taxes should not go up.
How would it make sure everyone pays their fair share?

The Buffett Rule would limit the degree to which the best-off can take advantage of loopholes and tax rates that allow them to pay less of their income in taxes than middle-class families.

Anyone who does well for themselves should do their fair share in return, so that more people have the opportunity to get ahead—not just a few. And at time when we need to pay down our deficit and invest in the things that help our economy grow and keep our country safe—education, research and technology, a strong military, Medicare and Social Security—giving tax breaks to millionaires simply doesn’t make sense.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/economy/buffett-rule
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LetsGoWings

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Re: Tax the rich!
« Reply #68 on: April 16, 2012, 12:08:50 AM »

LGW:

My name is mentioned in your post, but the point I'm making is absent. If we don't do something about our debt and deficit, the economy, jobs and a scary monetary policy we're toast. All this other stuff is a sideshow.   
What exactly is the solution?

Personally, I would like to see a phase out on all deductions included the itemized, A three tier long term capital gain structure, something along the lines of 0,15,25 brackets, lower the tax rates on intellectual property to 15%, and a few other things.
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Great advice from another poster on this forum, we should all live by this:

"I'd advise against anyone contemplating sullying the reputation of any of the candidates without solid proof. "

LetsGoWings

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Re: Tax the rich!
« Reply #69 on: April 16, 2012, 12:12:10 AM »

The Buffett Rule Explained
What's the deal with our current tax system?

Under the current U.S. tax system, a number of millionaires pay a smaller percentage of their income in taxes than a significant proportion of middle class families. Warren Buffett, for example, pays a lower effective tax rate than his secretary, and that’s not fair.

A full 22,000 households that made more than $1 million in 2009 paid less than 15 percent of their income in income taxes — and 1,470 managed to pay no federal income taxes on their million-plus-dollar incomes, according to the IRS.

And, the very wealthiest American households are paying nearly the lowest tax rate in 50 years— some are paying just half of the federal income tax that top income earners paid in 1960. But the average tax rate for middle class families has barely budged. The middle 20 percent of households paid 14 percent of their incomes in 1960, and 16 percent in 2010.
What is the Buffett Rule?

The Buffett Rule is a simple principle that everyone should pay their fair share in taxes. No household making more than a $1 million should pay a smaller share of their income in taxes than middle-class families pay. For the 98 percent of American families who make less than $250,000, taxes should not go up.
How would it make sure everyone pays their fair share?

The Buffett Rule would limit the degree to which the best-off can take advantage of loopholes and tax rates that allow them to pay less of their income in taxes than middle-class families.

Anyone who does well for themselves should do their fair share in return, so that more people have the opportunity to get ahead—not just a few. And at time when we need to pay down our deficit and invest in the things that help our economy grow and keep our country safe—education, research and technology, a strong military, Medicare and Social Security—giving tax breaks to millionaires simply doesn’t make sense.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/economy/buffett-rule

While this is relevant, I always think using 2008 and 2009 data for stuff like this isn't the most accurate. I am not sure if the IRS releases this, but I would be interested to see how many of the no federal taxes were a result of NOL carryforwards from the 2008 crash.
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Great advice from another poster on this forum, we should all live by this:

"I'd advise against anyone contemplating sullying the reputation of any of the candidates without solid proof. "

Frenchfry

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Re: Tax the rich!
« Reply #70 on: April 16, 2012, 12:13:03 AM »

What exactly is the solution?

Personally, I would like to see a phase out on all deductions included the itemized, A three tier long term capital gain structure, something along the lines of 0,15,25 brackets, lower the tax rates on intellectual property to 15%, and a few other things.
Lowering taxes? Great, more right-wing trickle-down nonsense.  8*
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LetsGoWings

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Re: Tax the rich!
« Reply #71 on: April 16, 2012, 12:19:32 AM »

Lowering taxes? Great, more right-wing trickle-down nonsense.  8*
Yeah only one of those things has to do with lowering taxes. We need to lower it so companies bring their intellectual property back here instead of keeping it in Ireland and never repatriating those earnings. No matter what Congress does there is very little they will be able to do ever tax the unrepatriated intellectual property earnings. They can try, but they will most likely end up dealing with a court case where they will probably lose.

Where is your solution or have the young turks no told you about it yet? I love how Cenk always refers to capital gains rates as a loophole when it is clear as day that there is a 0/15 rate on long term capital gains. He would never try and mislead people would he?
« Last Edit: April 16, 2012, 12:21:47 AM by LetsGoWings »
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Great advice from another poster on this forum, we should all live by this:

"I'd advise against anyone contemplating sullying the reputation of any of the candidates without solid proof. "

Baby Hitler

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Re: Tax the rich!
« Reply #72 on: April 16, 2012, 09:22:01 AM »

I just wonder what the big deal is about the Buffet Rule. I've read where it will generate anywhere from $ 3.5 to $ 5 billion extra a year. Will this extra revenue make any real difference in lowering the deficit? Would it be enough to finance some ginormous jobs program that somehow provides jobs to thousands? Will the Federal Government "invest" this money more wisely than would a Warren Buffett? Will it mean that Mr. Buffet and President Obama will pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes than their secretaries currently pay? Do you really care?   

Times are really tough for a whole lot of people. Government spending spiraling out of control. No jobs. People are really scared. The economy sputtering at best. And front and center is a discussion of the Buffet Rule. Appears to me we might want to re-think our priorities.
So, because it's ONLY $5,000,000,000.00 a year, we shouldn't worry about it? And if we find a way to save $5,000,000,000.00 a year, we shouldn't worry about it either?

The only "Plan" I see from the conservative standpoint is to give more money to the rich so they can invest it and create more jobs. Only thing is, it ain't happening.

Give more money to the rich, and they will find things to do with it alright. Like play in the derivatives market, or commodities, further exasperating our economy to increase their own wealth.

By the way, the jobs market is actually getting better, businesses are actually hiring once again.

You claim that people aren't addressing the "points" that you made. I believe you made a topic regarding those "points", maybe you should go play there.

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blue2

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Re: Tax the rich!
« Reply #73 on: April 16, 2012, 09:31:48 AM »

And just what is wrong with letting the people that work and make money keep it?   Why is that bad a thing?  And why is it necessary for the government to feed and house millions of people?  Why should the people that work have to fund this group of society?  Taxes should go toward maintaining the infrastructure not providing a living for those that are to lazy to work.
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Baby Hitler

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Re: Tax the rich!
« Reply #74 on: April 16, 2012, 09:55:18 AM »

And just what is wrong with letting the people that work and make money keep it?   Why is that bad a thing?  And why is it necessary for the government to feed and house millions of people?  Why should the people that work have to fund this group of society?  Taxes should go toward maintaining the infrastructure not providing a living for those that are to lazy to work.
Why should those who invest money be taxed differently than those who work for it? Why is that a good thing? The reason it is necessary for the government to feed and house millions of people is because there aren't enough jobs right now. Yes there are those that are "too lazy to work" but there are also plenty of others that are not and are looking for a job after being laid off for a variety of reasons, whether it is because their jobs went overseas or whatever.

It seems you want to lump all the unemployed together and pitch them in the river, not giving a damn about who it is you throw in there.
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