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[PXaiver]

I find that interesting in as much as it would drastically change your life and probably not for the better.  I'm not.  One world government would eliminate free enterprise as well as the freedom to express yourself on a venue such as this.  Most likely, under One World Government, this venue would cease to exist as would the Internet.

There are some good points however.  Affirmative action would cease to exist and the entitlement attitude that exists in this country would end, rather abruptly I suspect.  One World Totalitarian Government would line dissidents against a wall and give 'em a lead breakfast.

Umm then you and I are viewing things in a different way.  See I personally see OWG as a great thing because travel would be easier, we would have more freedom to do what we want, and, as long as the proper laws were in place, the government would have little if any say in what we do. 

[SidecarFlip]

Umm then you and I are viewing things in a different way.  See I personally see OWG as a great thing because travel would be easier, we would have more freedom to do what we want, and, as long as the proper laws were in place, the government would have little if any say in what we do. 

Yes we are.  In my viewpoint, OWG would limit all freedoms, especially freedom to travel abroad.  In my view, OWG would severely curtail travel to keep diverse opinions and ideas from intermingling with other cultures and possibly causing unrest.  OWG is about totalitarian control and a smooth running machine.  Adversarial ideas and opinions would be quashed and travel from your native country would be limited.  Only tangible goods and ideas and opinions that were considered good and productive for the governing body would be allowed to intermingle with other cultures.

[PXaiver]

Yes we are.  In my viewpoint, OWG would limit all freedoms, especially freedom to travel abroad.  In my view, OWG would severely curtail travel to keep diverse opinions and ideas from intermingling with other cultures and possibly causing unrest.  OWG is about totalitarian control and a smooth running machine.  Adversarial ideas and opinions would be quashed and travel from your native country would be limited.  Only tangible goods and ideas and opinions that were considered good and productive for the governing body would be allowed to intermingle with other cultures.

Yeah, I don't see it happening that way.  I look at a OWG as a true Democratic Socialist society.  Everyone has their say and everyone is taken care of.  I also look at it as a way to abolish the idea of currency.  Instead of having greed drive us to great things, we do so because we want to help our fellow man.  The government would be fairly minimal and just there to protect.  If a group decides that they don't like the way things are run, they can stand up and fight against the government.  If the mass population likes the current government then those fighting will not be punished as traitors, only punished for the civil infractions that they made, i.e. if while rising up they killed someone they could only be charged with the murder.

[SidecarFlip]

Yeah, I don't see it happening that way.  I look at a OWG as a true Democratic Socialist society.  Everyone has their say and everyone is taken care of.  I also look at it as a way to abolish the idea of currency.  Instead of having greed drive us to great things, we do so because we want to help our fellow man.  The government would be fairly minimal and just there to protect.  If a group decides that they don't like the way things are run, they can stand up and fight against the government.  If the mass population likes the current government then those fighting will not be punished as traitors, only punished for the civil infractions that they made, i.e. if while rising up they killed someone they could only be charged with the murder.

That's what makes our current form of government so great.  You and I can differ on opinions and views without fear of reprisal.....something that won't be true with OWG.

[PXaiver]

That's what makes our current form of government so great.  You and I can differ on opinions and views without fear of reprisal.....something that won't be true with OWG.

I doubt that.  With a OWG I think that different opinions would be encouraged because we're working for the good of humanity not the good of the individual.

[Sojourner]

So what you're basically saying is that we have free with but with exceptions.  That doesn't sound much like free will to me.

That's what I'm saying. We are free but not as free as we think. At the same time, God doesn't have to force anyone, as He knows how to act upon the will of men to accomplish His purposes. Remember, He said, "I summon the Kingdom of the North." Did they even know He was summoning them? No. But their will was moved to do so and so they did unconscious of divine drawings.

[PXaiver]

That's what I'm saying. We are free but not as free as we think. At the same time, God doesn't have to force anyone, as He knows how to act upon the will of men to accomplish His purposes. Remember, He said, "I summon the Kingdom of the North." Did they even know He was summoning them? No. But their will was moved to do so and so they did unconscious of divine drawings.

So with what you're saying, God knew that Eve was going to eat of the fruit before she did it correct?

[Sojourner]

LMAO...NO, it will mean that he was appointed by the people of the United States of America...It's called an election NOT divine intervention... *

It's both. You'll vote who you will to get in, but the outcome will be the appointment by God.

[Sojourner]

So with what you're saying, God knew that Eve was going to eat of the fruit before she did it correct?

Yes, of course He did.

For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. - Romans 8

Notice who subjected it to futility.

[PXaiver]

Yes, of course He did.

For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. - Romans 8

Notice who subjected it to futility.

This is one main problem that I have with your religion.  If God knew that Eve was going to eat the fruit, and that Satan would be a douche, and all the other bad things that happened in the Bible, why didn't he stop it?  Obviously this God of yours has a sick mind.  "Nahh, I don't want them to have a perfect world.  Let's give em poverty and Republicans.  Oh and since I know everything thats going to happen already, I'll make sure I don't say anything about that semi that's going to swerve over and kill their daughter."  Yeah, that sounds just like the type of God I want to worship.... *

[SidecarFlip]

This is one main problem that I have with your religion.  If God knew that Eve was going to eat the fruit, and that Satan would be a douche, and all the other bad things that happened in the Bible, why didn't he stop it?  Obviously this God of yours has a sick mind.  "Nahh, I don't want them to have a perfect world.  Let's give em poverty and Republicans.  Oh and since I know everything thats going to happen already, I'll make sure I don't say anything about that semi that's going to swerve over and kill their daughter."  Yeah, that sounds just like the type of God I want to worship.... *

WOW...That laid it bare.

[daphne]

In your argument, Sojo, it's that God wrote the beginning and the end of the book of civilization, but how one connects to the other isn't of much concern. Obama wins, God's will will be done. McCain wins, His will will be done.

So why do you argue so much? If it's all in God's hands and if He is in control, knows what will happen before we even do it, then ultimately it does not matter. In your version, it only matters how the individual responds -- whether that person accepts or rejects what God wants for him or her, accepts salvation.

It would appear, then, that what you should be concerned about is the individual -- the question of politics and mass governing is of little concern. Even issues of abortion and genocide and euthanasia matter little. Some people will accept God's plan for salvation and some will not -- it's been preordained, right? Only the spiritual condition of the individual matters.

It's a cycle of an argument that has no beginning, middle or end.

[Sojourner]

This is one main problem that I have with your religion.  If God knew that Eve was going to eat the fruit, and that Satan would be a douche, and all the other bad things that happened in the Bible, why didn't he stop it?  Obviously this God of yours has a sick mind.  "Nahh, I don't want them to have a perfect world.  Let's give em poverty and Republicans.  Oh and since I know everything thats going to happen already, I'll make sure I don't say anything about that semi that's going to swerve over and kill their daughter."  Yeah, that sounds just like the type of God I want to worship.... *

This is a world were we are still under death, and in such a world people die and bad things happen, and yeah, God allows it, but ultimately God will redeem creation, and when you and I stand before Him, we'll see He is just in all that He does with His creation.

Of course, it bothers me when terrible things happen, that is tragic and God counts it tragic, but God also knows this end is merely the beginning. We are so short in our sight. I am confident God's Spirit aches when children suffer and die, and after they die they go into eternal peace with Him. Yes, it was terrible here, but those sufferings will seem as nothing when they enter His presence.

If you've ever had an infected tooth, you know the pain is unbearable and like Hell on earth, but as soon as it's pulled you faintly remember the pain and move on. I had a tooth infection in my very back tooth last year and was in unbearable pain and asked God why He let me suffer, when I continually called on Him for relief. I questioned how a God of love could let one suffer in such a way, but after the pain was gone God let me again get a glimpse of Himself, and I could only cry how wrong I was to question Him. He is good and if we love Him our suffering will not be forever.

Again, I compare God to the writer of a story. I am writing a large fiction work, and I have about 12 chosen characters that I wanted to work upon. For some reason, which I can't explain, I love these characters. But the ones I love most I cause to suffer most, but all this suffering I allow adds to the glory of their ending. Am I evil for allowing the character I love so much to suffer? To the character with short sight it may seem I am cruel, but I see the end already and work all the suffering for his greater ultimate good and glory. While the wicked in my story perish, the one's who suffered most by my hand will forever be glorified and find eternal peace. I truly feel sorrow when my charcters suffer and often fight tears when writing out their troubles, but what great joy I find when I write of their glorious end.

[Sojourner]

In your argument, Sojo, it's that God wrote the beginning and the end of the book of civilization, but how one connects to the other isn't of much concern. Obama wins, God's will will be done. McCain wins, His will will be done.

So why do you argue so much? If it's all in God's hands and if He is in control, knows what will happen before we even do it, then ultimately it does not matter. In your version, it only matters how the individual responds -- whether that person accepts or rejects what God wants for him or her, accepts salvation.

It would appear, then, that what you should be concerned about is the individual -- the question of politics and mass governing is of little concern. Even issues of abortion and genocide and euthanasia matter little. Some people will accept God's plan for salvation and some will not -- it's been preordained, right? Only the spiritual condition of the individual matters.

It's a cycle of an argument that has no beginning, middle or end.

Ultimately, the soul is the most important thing, yeah. The things of this world and it's kingdoms will perish. Jesus didn't set up a kingdom down here, and He said, "My Kingdom is not of this world." But we are still living characters in this great story. We should continue to fight what is wrong and speak what is true. We should still speak the gospel to lead the lost sheep to God, as this is how He wills His own to come. We should still do our best in this life to establish what is right. Even if evil prevails on one front let those who are God's do right.

God is sovereign and in control, but we don't have to imagine ourselves as puppets, but just live our lives unconscious of His control. If the characters in my story were real, they would not be conscious of my working on them, but I am. I give them their very thoughts, whether they are thoughts from my good nature, or whether I allow them to have thoughts from a nature I dislike, but remember, to those I love I cause all things to work together for the good, while I let others perish who I haven't set my affactions on. Am I unjust in that?

[PXaiver]

This is a world were we are still under death, and in such a world people die and bad things happen, and yeah, God allows it, but ultimately God will redeem creation, and when you and I stand before Him, we'll see He is just in all that He does with His creation.

Of course, it bothers me when terrible things happen, that is tragic and God counts it tragic, but God also knows this end is merely the beginning. We are so short in our sight. I am confident God's Spirit aches when children suffer and die, and after they die they go into eternal peace with Him. Yes, it was terrible here, but those sufferings will seem as nothing when they enter His presence.

If you've ever had an infected tooth, you know the pain is unbearable and like Hell on earth, but as soon as it's pulled you faintly remember the pain and move on. I had a tooth infection in my very back tooth last year and was in unbearable pain and asked God why He let me suffer, when I continually called on Him for relief. I questioned how a God of love could let one suffer in such a way, but after the pain was gone God let me again get a glimpse of Himself, and I could only cry how wrong I was to question Him. He is good and if we love Him our suffering will not be forever.

Again, I compare God to the writer of a story. I am writing a large fiction work, and I have about 12 chosen characters that I wanted to work upon. For some reason, which I can't explain, I love these characters. But the ones I love most I cause to suffer most, but all this suffering I allow adds to the glory of their ending. Am I evil for allowing the character I love so much to suffer? To the character with short sight it may seem I am cruel, but I see the end already and work all the suffering for his greater ultimate good and glory. While the wicked in my story perish, the one's who suffered most by my hand will forever be glorified and find eternal peace. I truly feel sorrow when my charcters suffer and often fight tears when writing out their troubles, but what great joy I find when I write of their glorious end.

Well Sojo it makes me feel so much better to know that I'm part of a big fairy tale.  Please...if your God knows everything that's going to happen, then why can't he just end all suffering?  This is real life here buddy, not a story.  It seems to me if he was as loving and compassionate as you say he is, he'd give a little more.  What about all the child pornographers out there?  Huh?  He cares enough about the kids to make them suffer through unspeakable terrors and then grants them mercy when they die.  Yeah, sounds just like the type of God I want to worship.  "Listen, I'm going to put you through a lot of crap, but if you worship me then I'll kill you and you can come to heaven.  Oh one more thing if you don't worship me, then I'm sending you to Hell which will make getting raped feel like a walk in the park.  Another thing I'm going to do is not show up for a very long time so you have to question you faith.  Yeah you heard me right.  I'm not coming around and you still have to worship me or else that getting raped thing is nothing compaired to the punishment you'll get when my ex-BFF Satan get's a hold of you."


Seriously though, if he's going to end all the suffering eventually why not now?  Let's get this over with and move on to the next phase of the design.