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[Sojourner]

Yeah but it's ok for your god to let a child get raped.... *

What!? Who ever said that. No, it's not OK. And I promise you God hurts more than you do for a child that's raped. His sorrow would make yours look superficial and the sorrow you feel is because of His nature, which still has an effect on you. God will exercise His wrath agaisnt such wickedness, as is fitting for such.

Now you're just desiring to be sick in your accusations. But there will come a time when God says to us all like He said to Job, "Who is this who darkens counsel by words without knowledge? Now prepare yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer Me." And like Job we'll sit in silence wondering how we ever brought charge against Him.

I see some don't want to keep this civil and it seems like it will now turn into insults...

[PXaiver]

Glad to know there's at least one other person on this forum that understands the limitations of small town minds, ShaggyMarlin.

I wouldn't trust most of the posters on this forum any further than I could throw them. There's too many fanatics here that would just as soon damn my soul to hell based on NOTHING tangible.

Question them and their faulty premises and all you get in return is something like: "My God says you're going to hell'.

The problem with any God is that throughout the centuries, GOD (or some version of GOD) has been the basis for mass genocide in the name of every 'religious' fanatic known to the human race.

There's a few on this forum who see the whole picture.  I'm just glad we're getting more in our ranks.  Still there are a lot of people who follow a hard line on here and never question what they're told.

[PXaiver]

What!? Who ever said that. No, it's not OK. And I promise you God hurts more than you do for a child that's raped. His sorrow would make yours look superficial and the sorrow you feel is because of His nature, which still has an effect on you. God will exercise His wrath agaisnt such wickedness, as is fitting for such.

Now you're just desiring to be sick in your accusations. But there will come a time when God says to us all like He said to Job, "Who is this who darkens counsel by words without knowledge? Now prepare yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer Me." And like Job we'll sit in silence wondering how we ever brought charge against Him.

I see some don't want to keep this civil and it seems like it will now turn into insults...

I'm not the one who's throwing insults.  You're the one who's saying that god knows everything before it's going to happen and still let's it happen and if god's in pain he sounds like a self loathing sado-masochist.  If I were an omnipotent being I'd like to be content.  Then again you can't have good without evil right?  How are we supposed to know the pleasure of "gods love" if we first don't know pain?  Gotta have that balance.

[Sojourner]

Ahh so sin is more powerful than god.  Gotcha, it all makes sense now.  Wait, I thought he was omnipotent and created sin.  So how can god create something that is more powerful than him?  Do you realize the circles you talk in?  I thought the things that go on inside my head were scary, but I'd hate to get inside your brain.  I'm just glad you're ok with worshiping a sadistic monster because there's no way that I would be.

Who ever said God created something more powerful than Himself? How did you get that out of what I said?

I've said He'll destroy the wicked and accomplish His will. How does that imply I said He made something more powerful than Him?

I'm not the one who's throwing insults.  You're the one who's saying that god knows everything before it's going to happen and still let's it happen and if god's in pain he sounds like a self loathing sado-masochist.  If I were an omnipotent being I'd like to be content.  Then again you can't have good without evil right?  How are we supposed to know the pleasure of "gods love" if we first don't know pain?   Gotta have that balance.

To address the bold, I do believe that was A LOT of the reason for God allowing such things, so that the sons of mercy would more fully know and understand the Love and Grace of God, also His wrath on that which is contrary to His holy nature.

[PXaiver]

Who ever said God created something more powerful than Himself? How did you get that out of what I said?

You said that "the nature of sin want's complete control of oneself".  Now that being said, why doesn't god just stop sin?  Why is it putting us through all this torture?  Why would he send something he created to torment?  Here's the easy answer, god is a sadistic monster.

I've said He'll destroy the wicked and accomplish His will. How does that imply I said He made something more powerful than Him?
To address the bold, I do believe that was A LOT of the reason for God allowing such things, so that the sons of mercy would more fully know and understand the Love and Grace of God, also His wrath on that which is contrary to His holy nature.

Again you cannot know good unless you know evil.  That is the basic fundamental principle of almost all religions and Christianity is no exception.

[Boudica]

There's a few on this forum who see the whole picture.  I'm just glad we're getting more in our ranks.  Still there are a lot of people who follow a hard line on here and never question what they're told.

Thanks for the reassurance that I'm not the only one here who views a good number of posters as genocidal, Shaggy.

I have my own beliefs that there is some semblance of sanity and some degree of a 'higher power' at work in the universe, but my beliefs do NOT include a vengeful God that has, historically, according to the fundies here, promoted genocide against those who don't swallow, hook, line, and sinker, their own interpretation of 'God'.

From the time I registered to this forum, I've attempted to avoid the religion and philosophy board. It's become apparent to me, though, that I was foolish. Too many other posters keep using the 'religion' talk to support their political beliefs for me to keep attempting to separate the topics.

Again. Those of you using the religion board to back up your political beliefs are no better than the Muslim terrorists who have used the same argument.

[Sojourner]

You said that "the nature of sin want's complete control of oneself".  Now that being said, why doesn't god just stop sin?  Why is it putting us through all this torture?  Why would he send something he created to torment?  Here's the easy answer, god is a sadistic monster.

Again you cannot know good unless you know evil.   That is the basic fundamental principle of almost all religions and Christianity is no exception.

Either God is a sadistic monster, or you ignorantly profess he is with no real knowledge?

To address the bold, I think there is some truth in that, as even God said, "The tree of the knowledge of good and evil." But I still think we can know God is holy and good without knowing sin. Even angels who have never known sin, cry, "Holy!"

[PXaiver]

Thanks for the reassurance that I'm not the only one here who views a good number of posters as genocidal, Shaggy.

I have my own beliefs that there is some semblance of sanity and some degree of a 'higher power' at work in the universe, but my beliefs do NOT include a vengeful God that has, historically, according to the fundies here, promoted genocide against those who don't swallow, hook, line, and sinker, their own interpretation of 'God'.

From the time I registered to this forum, I've attempted to avoid the religion and philosophy board. It's become apparent to me, though, that I was foolish. Too many other posters keep using the 'religion' talk to support their political beliefs for me to keep attempting to separate the topics.

Again. Those of you using the religion board to back up your political beliefs are no better than the Muslim terrorists who have used the same argument.

I like you have my own personal beliefs and because I argue the side of science and reason instead of superstition I have been called every name in the book.  I have my faith, you have yours, we can discuss it politely but as soon as you tell me I'm wrong for thinking the way I do I'll start attacking your faith starting with the blatant gaping holes that are in all religions.  The fundamentalists scare the crap out of me.  I wish them well but I wish them away from me and out of the government.  Using a 2000 year old book to justify outdated principles just scares the living crap out of me.

[Boudica]

What!? Who ever said that. No, it's not OK. And I promise you God hurts more than you do for a child that's raped.

Oh, please! If your God cared about anyone, he would not allow 'free will' of rapists. He would not allow innocent children to be raped and abused.

You've claimed to believe in free will in previous posts you've made, but then you've 'qualified' your free will agenda to say that some things are written in advance by your 'God' and are immutable.

As mentioned, I believe in a Higher Power, but the Higher Power I believe in is more civilized than your Christian God as seen through the eyes of a fundie like you.

[PXaiver]

Either God is a sadistic monster, or you ignorantly profess he is with no real knowledge?

To address the bold, I think there is some truth in that, as even God said, "The tree of the knowledge of good and evil." But I still think we can know God is holy and good without knowing sin. Even angels who have never known sin, cry, "Holy!"

The reason why I'm saying your god is a sadistic monster is simple, the evidence you provided.

[Sojourner]

Thanks for the reassurance that I'm not the only one here who views a good number of posters as genocidal, Shaggy.

I have my own beliefs that there is some semblance of sanity and some degree of a 'higher power' at work in the universe, but my beliefs do NOT include a vengeful God that has, historically, according to the fundies here, promoted genocide against those who don't swallow, hook, line, and sinker, their own interpretation of 'God'.

From the time I registered to this forum, I've attempted to avoid the religion and philosophy board. It's become apparent to me, though, that I was foolish. Too many other posters keep using the 'religion' talk to support their political beliefs for me to keep attempting to separate the topics.

Again. Those of you using the religion board to back up your political beliefs are no better than the Muslim terrorists who have used the same argument.

To address the bold, actually, that didn't happen in the Bible. When the Israelites slaughtered the Canaanites according to the commandment of the Lord, they in no way tried to convert them to their faith. The Muslims did that, and some professing Christianity may have done that, but there is no basis for that sort of action in the New Testament, whereas there is support to do such things in the Quran.

And I only use my religion to back my political choice when it comes to morality, like concerning abortion. I might vote for Obama if I didn't despise his past and current stance on abortion, although, I think I'd still vote McCain this election.

[PXaiver]

And I only use my religion to back my political choice when it comes to morality, like concerning abortion. I might vote for Obama if I didn't despise his past and current stance on abortion, although, I think I'd still vote McCain this election.

Obama will have no bearing on Roe V. Wade.

[Sojourner]

Oh, please! If your God cared about anyone, he would not allow 'free will' of rapists. He would not allow innocent children to be raped and abused.

You've claimed to believe in free will in previous posts you've made, but then you've 'qualified' your free will agenda to say that some things are written in advance by your 'God' and are immutable.

As mentioned, I believe in a Higher Power, but the Higher Power I believe in is more civilized than your Christian God as seen through the eyes of a fundie like you.

Is God unjust for allowing evil to happen in a world that is under evil? Was Jesus unjust for waiting to come to Lazarus and letting Him die? When He finally came to Bethany, Martha and Mary wondered why He didn't come sooner, and said, "Lord, if you had come he wouldn't have died." But Jesus allowed death to work its course, but in the end Lazarus was given life and God was glorfied. Again, we humans are so short sighted.

And yes, we have free will to a degree, and some things are written and are immutable.

[Boudica]

The fundamentalists scare the crap out of me.  I wish them well but I wish them away from me and out of the government.  Using a 2000 year old book to justify outdated principles just scares the living crap out of me.

Again, agree with you, ShaggyMarlin. Much like Osama Bin Laden and his rogue ISLAMIC fundies use their version of Allah to justify their attacks on the U.S. as being the will of their God, Allah.

The Christian fundies here are no better than the Islamic terrorists who use religion to justify killing and/or suppressing any religious beliefs that don't fit in with their own agenda.

[Sojourner]

The reason why I'm saying your god is a sadistic monster is simple, the evidence you provided.

Richard Dawkins thinks the same of God, as do many people, but that doesn't change the fact that He is Holy, Righteous, and Just in all His ways.