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[Boudica]

To address the bold, actually, that didn't happen in the Bible. When the Israelites slaughtered the Canaanites according to the commandment of the Lord, they in no way tried to convert them to their faith. The Muslims did that, and some professing Christianity may have done that, but there is no basis for that sort of action in the New Testament, whereas there is support to do such things in the Quran.

And I only use my religion to back my political choice when it comes to morality, like concerning abortion. I might vote for Obama if I didn't despise his past and current stance on abortion, although, I think I'd still vote McCain this election.

And according to YOUR Bible Herod enthusiastically supported the slaughter of infants. You agree with all the Bible tells you. Therefore, you MUST agree with the killing of infants yet you claim to be against abortion.

So in your eyes, it's a sin to kill not yet formed cells who've never drawn a breath, but you fully support Herod's killing of every infant two years old or less.

Nice!

[Sojourner]

Again, agree with you, ShaggyMarlin. Much like Osama Bin Laden and his rogue ISLAMIC fundies use their version of Allah to justify their attacks on the U.S. as being the will of their God, Allah.

The Christian fundies here are no better than the Islamic terrorists who use religion to justify killing and/or suppressing any religious beliefs that don't fit in with their own agenda.

Who are American Christians killing?

I personally believe we are there according to the will of God, and while to us it may seem bad it will work for His ultimate good purpose. Does that mean I am killing people?

And according to YOUR Bible Herod enthusiastically supported the slaughter of infants. You agree with all the Bible tells you. Therefore, you MUST agree with the killing of infants yet you claim to be against abortion.

So in your eyes, it's a sin to kill not yet formed cells who've never drawn a breath, but you fully support Herod's killing of every infant two years old or less.

Nice!

What!? What Herod did was an evil thing! He was trying to have Jesus Christ killed as a child. I would never support something like that or call it good. God allowed it, but God didn't say it was ever good. Wickedness is still wickedness and will be destroyed.

[PXaiver]

Richard Dawkins thinks the same of God, as do many people, but that doesn't change the fact that He is Holy, Righteous, and Just in all His ways.

So at least you're admitting he's a sadist.  I guess that's a start.

Again, agree with you, ShaggyMarlin. Much like Osama Bin Laden and his rogue ISLAMIC fundies use their version of Allah to justify their attacks on the U.S. as being the will of their God, Allah.

The Christian fundies here are no better than the Islamic terrorists who use religion to justify killing and/or suppressing any religious beliefs that don't fit in with their own agenda.

I couldn't agree with you more.  Fundies see the world through their own glasses and eventhough they may not act on things like the Islamic terrorists I'm sure the thoughts are still there.  We've seen abortion clinic bombings and the fundies are getting louder and louder now.  I'm just curious as to when we're going to see the militant side of Christianity.  I know it's coming but I don't know when.

[Boudica]

Who are American Christians killing?

I personally believe we are there according to the will of God, and while to us it may seem bad it will work for His ultimate good purpose. Does that mean I am killing people?
What!? What Herod did was an evil thing! He was trying to have Jesus Christ killed as a child. I would never support something like that or call it good. God allowed it, but God didn't say it was ever good. Wickedness is still wickedness and will be destroyed.

Let's get back to whom the 'Christians' murdered during the Spanish Inquisition and the Crusades. I'm not saying modern day Christians have killed anyone...YET. But I can foresee from posts like yours that there are many that will get there very soon.

And now you contradict yourself, yet again, by saying what Herod did was EVIL. Yet in your previous posts, you've indicated that the Holy Bible was entirely 'God's' work and you fully support 'His' every move.

Now you're back pedaling saying that what Herod did was evil. Your so called 'God' allowed it. Do I need to go on to describe every single Old Testament plague that your 'God' wrought upon the earth?

You won't win, you cannot win against reasonable people, Sojourner. You're just an example of the very people who are destroying our country with faux 'religion' despite the fact that only REASON, and NOT religious superstition can save this country now.

[Boudica]

I couldn't agree with you more.  Fundies see the world through their own glasses and eventhough they may not act on things like the Islamic terrorists I'm sure the thoughts are still there.  We've seen abortion clinic bombings and the fundies are getting louder and louder now.  I'm just curious as to when we're going to see the militant side of Christianity.  I know it's coming but I don't know when.

But we've already seen it in centuries past, ShaggyMarlin. The Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition proved to us how far so called Chrisitans were/are willing to go in order to force the rest of us to accept their religious views.

Never mind that even those girls who accused their neighbors of witchcraft during the Salem Witch Trials later recanted their accusations. They waited until a couple of hundred of their neighbors had been hanged before they recanted their accusations and admitted they had lied.

I doubt their belated confessions made the accused families feel a damned bit better about the execution of their family members.

Mass hysteria, like I'm seeing under the 'religion' section of this board will never die out despite the fact that more rational people keep trying to dispute the claims of those that are die-hard believers that CHRISTIANITY still needs to be forced down our throats for our own good.

[Mike Ingels]

Boudica!

I do understand what you are saying.  I've lived in Chicago and Ann Arbor and have traveled extensively.  Small and medium sized cities can be a bit claustrophobic and conservative.

But here's one thing that bothers me:

There is an idea out there called the Big Sort.  The concept is that modern society allows people to self-select the people they live and interact with.

So, we end up with affluent, educated liberals in Ann Arbor, African-Americans in Detroit, older white professionals in Oakland County and more conservative working-class whites in a place like Monroe.

And the first thing that, say a gay person or a upwardly-mobile person does in a place like Monroe is leave.  He or she moves to Ann Arbor or Chicago or New York.

And that's how we end up with the urban/rural divide that we have presently in the country.

How can a place like Monroe become more progressive when the progressives feel inclined to trash on the place and then leave?

Don't we need progressives like yourself to stay and change minds rather than just to trash on people?

[PXaiver]

But we've already seen it in centuries past, ShaggyMarlin. The Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition proved to us how far so called Chrisitans were/are willing to go in order to force the rest of us to accept their religious views.

Never mind that even those girls who accused their neighbors of witchcraft during the Salem Witch Trials later recanted their accusations. They waited until a couple of hundred of their neighbors had been hanged before they recanted their accusations and admitted they had lied.

I doubt their belated confessions made the accused families feel a damned bit better about the execution of their family members.

Mass hysteria, like I'm seeing under the 'religion' section of this board will never die out despite the fact that more rational people keep trying to dispute the claims of those that are die-hard believers that CHRISTIANITY still needs to be forced down our throats for our own good.

Yeah, I hear what you're saying.  I know a thing or two about The Trials and that scares me more than anything else.  I'm just curious as to where they're holding up.  I know they have several fundamentalist training camps throughout the country.

[Boudica]

Boudica!

How can a place like Monroe become more progressive when the progressives feel inclined to trash on the place and then leave?

Don't we need progressives like yourself to stay and change minds rather than just to trash on people?

Hi Mike,

Progressives like me don't stay in small towns like this for long. I wasn't born here, and won't stay here. I'm here by a temporary fluke.

But thanks for your pretended concern.

[Sojourner]

So at least you're admitting he's a sadist.  I guess that's a start.

I couldn't agree with you more.  Fundies see the world through their own glasses and eventhough they may not act on things like the Islamic terrorists I'm sure the thoughts are still there.  We've seen abortion clinic bombings and the fundies are getting louder and louder now.  I'm just curious as to when we're going to see the militant side of Christianity.  I know it's coming but I don't know when.

To address the bold, why say things like that? You're just using sarcasm that ignites unprofitable arguing. You know I never said God was a sadist.

I may be a bit extreme in this matter, but I don't feel pity for murdering doctors who are killed, though I would not kill one.

Let's get back to whom the 'Christians' murdered during the Spanish Inquisition and the Crusades. I'm not saying modern day Christians have killed anyone...YET. But I can foresee from posts like yours that there are many that will get there very soon.

And now you contradict yourself, yet again, by saying what Herod did was EVIL. Yet in your previous posts, you've indicated that the Holy Bible was entirely 'God's' work and you fully support 'His' every move.

Now you're back pedaling saying that what Herod did was evil. Your so called 'God' allowed it. Do I need to go on to describe every single Old Testament plague that your 'God' wrought upon the earth?

You won't win, you cannot win against reasonable people, Sojourner. You're just an example of the very people who are destroying our country with faux 'religion' despite the fact that only REASON, and NOT religious superstition can save this country now.

WHEN did I ever say the evil done by man was good? I said God allows evil to happen and He allows even devils to work on the wills of man to accomplish His will, but when did I ever say the evil man does is/was good? Evil is evil, period.

And what you think is the salvation of this country will lead to its destruction.

What does the Bible say of such REASON? "Professing to be wise they became fools and their foolish hearts were darkened."

And when it comes to Christians killing, I've addressed that in the thread you recently made.

[PXaiver]

To address the bold, why say things like that? You're just using sarcasm that ignites unprofitable arguing. You know I never said God was a sadist.

I'm not being sarcastic.  By every definition of the word "sadist" your god is a sadist.  Here's the definition of sadist from dictionary.com

sadist

noun
someone who obtains pleasure from inflicting pain or others 

So here's the thing, if your god isn't a sadist then why does he like to cause himself pain by letting children die?  Seems sadistic to me.

[Mike Ingels]

Personally, I'm sick of that attitude.

Things don't change by running from the issue and looking down at entire swathes of the country.

If you actually have a problem with the way people here view things, then stay and change it.  Don't just flick people off and run away.

That's crap.  How's that for concern?

People in the urban areas and college towns can be just as myopic as those who live in small towns and cities.

[PXaiver]

Personally, I'm sick of that attitude.

Things don't change by running from the issue and looking down at entire swathes of the country.

If you actually have a problem with the way people here view things, then stay and change it.  Don't just flick people off and run away.

That's crap.  How's that for concern?

People in the urban areas and college towns can be just as myopic as those who live in small towns and cities.

Yeah, but I understand how he feels.  It's all about safety in numbers.  Why do you think I want to move to Canada so badly after I finish my degree?

[Boudica]

Personally, I'm sick of that attitude.

Things don't change by running from the issue and looking down at entire swathes of the country.

If you actually have a problem with the way people here view things, then stay and change it.  Don't just flick people off and run away.

That's crap.  How's that for concern?

People in the urban areas and college towns can be just as myopic as those who live in small towns and cities.

Who are you to tell me what to do? I protest the fundies on this board telling me what I should think and what I should do.

Not to put to fine a point on it...but get offa my back. You fundies have had your say. Time for me to have mine.

What's fair is fair. You fundies claim to have some special word from your 'God'. I feel like your 'God' is bipolar. Just take a look at what your 'God' did in the Old Testament versus the New Testament.

Too bad your 'God' didn't know he could have taken meds to prevent that kind of thing. Which brings me to another point...why didn't 'He' predict there were cures for mental illness?

[Mike Ingels]

But here's the problem.  Progressives dilute their power by segregating themselves in the cities and college towns.

One of the reasons why Bush was president for eight years was because of demographics.  Those who stayed in the small towns had greater power in the electoral college and in Congress.

And the fact that progressives abandoned rural America meant that they had very little standing when arguing for rural support.

So, I understand the desire to be with people like yourself.

But if you truly want change, you'll stay and work to make it better.

[Sojourner]

I'm not being sarcastic.  By every definition of the word "sadist" your god is a sadist.  Here's the definition of sadist from dictionary.com
So here's the thing, if your god isn't a sadist then why does he like to cause himself pain by letting children die?  Seems sadistic to me.

What does God Himself say through the mouth of His prophet?

"Say unto them, as I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked..." Ezekiel 33:11 He even says after that, "but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, 0 house of Israel?" And those who are Christ's, who were once wicked, will turn from their wickedness and live.

He allows evil, but He doesn't take pleasure in it.