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[Sojourner]

If Obama wins does that mean he is appointed by God to be President? I would say, Yes.

I don't believe there is any power that God hasn't appointed, even evil leaders.

What does the Bible say of such things?

For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Romans 13:1

A good example of God appointing an evil leader is found in King Nebuchadnezzar. In Jeremiah we find God saying that He was summoning the Kingdom of the North (Babylon) to slay the children of Israel.

Daniel says this to arrogant King Nebuchadnezzar, "They shall drive you from men, your dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make you eat grass like oxen. They shall wet you with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over you, till you know that the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to whomever He chooses. Daniel 4

And after seven years we find God giving King Nebuchadnezzar the Kingdom back.

What does God say of evil Pharoah?

For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.” Romans 9

Notice it was God who raised him up.

We also find in Israel that the people wanted a King, which was not what God wanted, but because of the hardness of their heart He appointed King Saul, who ended up evil. Then He appointed David.

Christians can be certain if Obama is elected God appointed him, but still we should always oppose anything he does or approves that is immoral or unethical, and even God Himself will judge concerning such things.

[autum]

i just remember when the isrealites said they wanted a king so they could be like everyone else and God finally said give them what they want.
God didn't want them to have one but once again people just do not listen

[Sojourner]

i just remember when the isrealites said they wanted a king so they could be like everyone else and God finally said give them what they want.
God didn't want them to have one but once again people just do not listen

Right, and because of their hardness of heart, God appointed them a King.

[PXaiver]

The thing is, we're not looking for a King.  This is a free election and the President has checks and balances to work against.  Now George W. Bush, aka Dick Cheney, has done things to diminsh those, but this is still a free election.

[Sojourner]

The thing is, we're not looking for a King.  This is a free election and the President has checks and balances to work against.  Now George W. Bush, aka Dick Cheney, has done things to diminsh those, but this is still a free election.

I don't think it's as free as one imagines. I believe God appoints the one He appoints even though the people vote. Even as the Bible says, "The lot is cast, But its every decision is from the Lord." The Bible teaches that God even controlled accidental deaths, saying, "If God delivers a man into another's hand."

I believe this story was already written and God now reads it into being.

[PXaiver]

I don't think it's as free as one imagines. I believe God appoints the one He appoints even though the people vote. Even as the Bible says, "The lot is cast, But its every decision is from the Lord." The Bible teaches that God even controlled accidental deaths, saying, "If God delivers a man into another's hand."

I believe this story was already written and God now reads it into being.

Doesn't that negate free will?

[Sojourner]

Doesn't that negate free will?

I knew someone would ask that, and I was going to edit to add something on that, but I waited.

I do believe we have free will, but much less than we think. I believe God sets up certain musts in our lives and those must be no matter what, but He also allows us to improvise freely on His sovereign structure. We can do many things freely, but He will get His ultimate will accomplished for all, especially in salvation.

You can arrange the harmonies around the melodic line of Amazing Grace in a thousand different ways, but the hymn will no matter what always remain Amazing Grace.

I remember hearing a story about Franz Liszt, the master composer and great pianist, and he was playing a piece he had composed and as he played it he messed up, so he quickly covered up the mistake by improvising the passage down a new path, which he quickly brought back on the intended path. Those who noticed that marveled, to the glory of Liszt's skill.

I think the same is true with God, He has composed this piece and gives us some freedom on this structure, and when we go off His sovereign course, He'll simply use His great wisdom to get us right back onto it. And our mistakes will only add to His glory, for His vessel will end up what He intended it to be. He has countless ways to shape us into what He predetermined.

[PXaiver]

I knew someone would ask that, and I was going to edit to add something on that, but I waited.

I do believe we have free will, but much less than we think. I believe God sets up certain musts in our lives and those must be no matter what, but He also allows us to improvise freely on His sovereign structure. We can do many things freely, but He will get His ultimate will accomplished for all, especially in salvation.

You can arrange the harmonies around the melodic line of Amazing Grace in a thousand different ways, but the hymn will no matter what always remain Amazing Grace.

I remember hearing a story about Franz Liszt, the master composer and great pianist, and he was playing a piece he had composed and as he played it he messed up, so he quickly covered up the mistake by improvising the passage down a new path, which he quickly brought back on the intended path. Those who noticed that marveled, to the glory of Liszt's skill.

I think the same is true with God, He has composed this piece and gives us some freedom on this structure, and when we go off His sovereign course, He'll simply use His great wisdom to get us right back onto it. And our mistakes will only add to His glory, for His vessel will end up what He intended it to be. He has countless ways to shape us into what He predetermined.

So what you're basically saying is that we have free with but with exceptions.  That doesn't sound much like free will to me.

[zard0z]

If Obama wins does that mean he is appointed by God to be President? I would say, Yes.

LMAO...NO, it will mean that he was appointed by the people of the United States of America...It's called an election NOT divine intervention... *

[SidecarFlip]

No.....Both candidates were approved by the owners of this country to participate in a faux democratic election where we get to choose the lesser of 2 evils.  No matter which one wins, they will address the wishes of their handlers before anything.   

[PXaiver]

No.....Both candidates were approved by the owners of this country to participate in a faux democratic election where we get to choose the lesser of 2 evils.  No matter which one wins, they will address the wishes of their handlers before anything.   

Then vote third party like I am.  Oh and who are these "handlers" that you speak of?

[SidecarFlip]

Then vote third party like I am.  Oh and who are these "handlers" that you speak of?

...We can start with Bernacke and his henchmen and finish with the G7.  Problem with voting 3rd party is that it may satisify your craving for justice but it will negate a vote for one of the popular candidates....

[zard0z]

No.....Both candidates were approved by the owners of this country to participate in a faux democratic election where we get to choose the lesser of 2 evils.  No matter which one wins, they will address the wishes of their handlers before anything.   

faux democratic election...?  Really...?

So everything to you in this country is just a lie upon lie...?

[PXaiver]

...We can start with Bernacke and his henchmen and finish with the G7.  Problem with voting 3rd party is that it may satisify your craving for justice but it will negate a vote for one of the popular candidates....

So the G7 are controlling the world....Ok I'll believe it when I see it.  The problem is, I'm actually a fan of the One World Government idea so it would have no real effect on me....

[SidecarFlip]

So the G7 are controlling the world....Ok I'll believe it when I see it.  The problem is, I'm actually a fan of the One World Government idea so it would have no real effect on me....

I find that interesting in as much as it would drastically change your life and probably not for the better.  I'm not.  One world government would eliminate free enterprise as well as the freedom to express yourself on a venue such as this.  Most likely, under One World Government, this venue would cease to exist as would the Internet.

There are some good points however.  Affirmative action would cease to exist and the entitlement attitude that exists in this country would end, rather abruptly I suspect.  One World Totalitarian Government would line dissidents against a wall and give 'em a lead breakfast.