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Pax

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Novus Ordo catholic churches
« on: November 11, 2008, 04:10:20 PM »

http://monroenews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081111/NEWS01/111119982/-1/NEWS

Galatians 6,8
For what things a man shall sow, those also shall he reap. For he that soweth in his flesh, of the flesh also shall reap corruption. But he that soweth in the spirit, of the spirit shall reap life everlasting.

Thousands of Novus Ordo catholic churches are being sold to protestant sects and even non-christian organizations.  They're closing their schools for lack of funds and enrollment.  They aren't capable of replacing their priests, their nuns and other religious.  They are finally reaping that which was sown by John XXIII and Paul VI at the demonic Vatican II, with Ratzinger presiding over the dissipation at present.

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Qui tacet consentit! - "He who is silent consents" - Maxim of Law
"For he who would be deceived, let him." - Roman maxim
"Not to oppose error is to approve it; and not to defend truth is to suppress it; and indeed to neglect to confound evil men, when we can do it, is no less a sin than to encourage them." -Pope St. Felix III
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit.
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Mike Ingels

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Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2008, 04:31:00 PM »

Yup.  Let's turn that priest back around and make him speak Latin again.  That'll bring the parishoners back.

It is time to stop the left and right slugfest within the church.  Both sides have a right to be in the church.

What we truly need is more transparency.  Catholics in the pews need to see diocesan budgets.

And talented and faithful lay Catholics need to play a larger role in church governance.  The idea that a priest or bishop can be an accountant, teacher, human resources manager, facilities manager, theologian, lawyer, public relations rep and counselor at the same time is archaic.

Let the lay Catholic accountants keep the books.  Let the Catholic writers create the papers and web sites.  Turn over fundraising to talented lay capital campaign managers.  And let's allow the priests to minister to the sacraments.
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Pax

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Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2008, 05:06:52 PM »

Yup.  Let's turn that priest back around and make him speak Latin again.  That'll bring the parishoners back.

Ah.  You'd rather have a ringleader ala BT Barnum up on your "altar" instead of a priest worshipping God?  That's exactly what they have: the novus ordo churches have replaced the worship of God as it was done for nearly 2000 years with the new-fangled cult-of-man and they're dying because of it.  Good riddance.
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Qui tacet consentit! - "He who is silent consents" - Maxim of Law
"For he who would be deceived, let him." - Roman maxim
"Not to oppose error is to approve it; and not to defend truth is to suppress it; and indeed to neglect to confound evil men, when we can do it, is no less a sin than to encourage them." -Pope St. Felix III
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit.
Ryht æðelo biþ on ðam móde, næs on ðam flæ-acute

T-M-T

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Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2008, 05:22:50 PM »

Ah.  You'd rather have a ringleader ala BT Barnum up on your "altar" instead of a priest worshipping God?  That's exactly what they have: the novus ordo churches have replaced the worship of God as it was done for nearly 2000 years with the new-fangled cult-of-man and they're dying because of it.  Good riddance.

And Ford is in financial trouble because they stopped building the Pinto.
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gefiltefish

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Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2008, 09:27:36 PM »

Yup.  Let's turn that priest back around and make him speak Latin again.  That'll bring the parishoners back.

It is time to stop the left and right slugfest within the church.  Both sides have a right to be in the church.

What we truly need is more transparency.  Catholics in the pews need to see diocesan budgets.

And talented and faithful lay Catholics need to play a larger role in church governance.  The idea that a priest or bishop can be an accountant, teacher, human resources manager, facilities manager, theologian, lawyer, public relations rep and counselor at the same time is archaic.

Let the lay Catholic accountants keep the books.  Let the Catholic writers create the papers and web sites.  Turn over fundraising to talented lay capital campaign managers.  And let's allow the priests to minister to the sacraments.

You're right on point Mike!

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gefiltefish

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Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2008, 09:31:22 PM »

Ah.  You'd rather have a ringleader ala BT Barnum up on your "altar" instead of a priest worshipping God?  That's exactly what they have: the novus ordo churches have replaced the worship of God as it was done for nearly 2000 years with the new-fangled cult-of-man and they're dying because of it.  Good riddance.

Carefull; that is way too simplistic of a rationale for why the Roman Catholic Church is "dying" (as you state it).  Also; be carefull before you give the euology for the Roman Catholic chrurch.  While it might be loosing members (most "mainstream" churches are), the church is far from dead.
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ell

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Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2008, 09:41:15 PM »

Yup.  Let's turn that priest back around and make him speak Latin again.  That'll bring the parishoners back.

It is time to stop the left and right slugfest within the church.  Both sides have a right to be in the church.

What we truly need is more transparency.  Catholics in the pews need to see diocesan budgets.

And talented and faithful lay Catholics need to play a larger role in church governance.  The idea that a priest or bishop can be an accountant, teacher, human resources manager, facilities manager, theologian, lawyer, public relations rep and counselor at the same time is archaic.

Let the lay Catholic accountants keep the books.  Let the Catholic writers create the papers and web sites.  Turn over fundraising to talented lay capital campaign managers.  And let's allow the priests to minister to the sacraments.

I think the Catholics and the Protestants could learn a lot from each other Mike. But then again, different protestant denominations function differently.  I can only speak about my denomination.  Our pastor is an employee of the local congregation.  We hire, we can fire.  The pastor is not a voting member of the congregation.  The pastor is forbidden to speak politics from the pulpit.  The pastor does not handle the money.  I will admit I don't know alot about the Catholic church.  My sore spot is not being able to participate in communion at a Catholic chuch, whereas my church invites all believers to the table.
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Pax

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Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2008, 09:00:08 AM »

Carefull; that is way too simplistic of a rationale for why the Roman Catholic Church is "dying" (as you state it).  Also; be carefull before you give the euology for the Roman Catholic chrurch. 

Even simpletons see the new "church" has no redeeming value hence they stay away in droves.  Before Vatican II the churches were full, the seminaries and schools were full, the churches' coffers were full, post-Vatican II "catholic" churches are bare gymnasiums and meeting halls not at all unlike any of the protestant sects they are attemptiing to emulate: ecumenism will put that beast out of its misery while a remnant of the true Catholic Church survives it.  Just as it is written...
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Qui tacet consentit! - "He who is silent consents" - Maxim of Law
"For he who would be deceived, let him." - Roman maxim
"Not to oppose error is to approve it; and not to defend truth is to suppress it; and indeed to neglect to confound evil men, when we can do it, is no less a sin than to encourage them." -Pope St. Felix III
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit.
Ryht æðelo biþ on ðam móde, næs on ðam flæ-acute

the nosh

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Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2008, 09:05:53 AM »

i prefered the mass to be in latin. more mysterious that way!  ;)
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Pax

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Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2008, 10:38:35 AM »

For those who seek it, a real Catholic mass is still available:

http://www.traditio.com/nat.htm
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Qui tacet consentit! - "He who is silent consents" - Maxim of Law
"For he who would be deceived, let him." - Roman maxim
"Not to oppose error is to approve it; and not to defend truth is to suppress it; and indeed to neglect to confound evil men, when we can do it, is no less a sin than to encourage them." -Pope St. Felix III
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit.
Ryht æðelo biþ on ðam móde, næs on ðam flæ-acute

mohamed_kalij

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Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2008, 12:27:58 PM »

Even simpletons see the new "church" has no redeeming value hence they stay away in droves.  Before Vatican II the churches were full, the seminaries and schools were full, the churches' coffers were full, post-Vatican II "catholic" churches are bare gymnasiums and meeting halls not at all unlike any of the protestant sects they are attemptiing to emulate: ecumenism will put that beast out of its misery while a remnant of the true Catholic Church survives it.  Just as it is written...

Death to the non-believers!! What? We can't kill them? It is not what jesus would do? Oh. Then bankruptcy to the non-believers!!
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Mike Ingels

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Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2008, 04:25:36 PM »

Balbuscere!

I do actually like Latin.  I sang in church choirs for about 15 years and some of the most beautiful music around is Latin liturgical music.  And on Holy Thursday, it is deeply meaningful to take part in some of the old Latin rites.

But Latin is a cultural artifact.  Jesus didn't speak it.  The Apostles didn't speak it.  It has nothing to do with the deposit of the faith.  The vernacular is a completely appropriate way to worship.

Personally, one of the best things about the Catholic Church right now is how conflicted it is.  It still does try to stand up for morality.  That is much needed in modern society.  But it is flexible enough to also support unionizing immigrant workers in poor Chicago factories and vibrant and edgy campus parishes in places like Ann Arbor.

The correct answer for the church is not to sell out to the left or right.  The proper move is to place one foot firmly in both camps and stand up strong.
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Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2008, 05:09:45 PM »

But Latin is a cultural artifact.  Jesus didn't speak it.  The Apostles didn't speak it. 

As Roman citizens [or under Roman jurisdiction anyway] it's out of the realm of reason that Jesus and the Apostles wouldn't know Latin and speak it when necessary.  The Latin language, however, is part of what made Catholicism universal - no matter where in the world a Catholic went he could hear the exact same mass said the exact same way.  Not so with the novus ordo "missae" in the vernacular.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2009, 12:45:57 PM by Erich »
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Qui tacet consentit! - "He who is silent consents" - Maxim of Law
"For he who would be deceived, let him." - Roman maxim
"Not to oppose error is to approve it; and not to defend truth is to suppress it; and indeed to neglect to confound evil men, when we can do it, is no less a sin than to encourage them." -Pope St. Felix III
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit.
Ryht æðelo biþ on ðam móde, næs on ðam flæ-acute

Aguilera

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Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2008, 09:49:15 PM »

Honestly, it truely amazes me how many people on this forum, not just this thread, act as if the absolutely HATE Christians or people of faith.  It is kind of scary.  How I mostly celebrate my faith is in small random acts of kindness and helping others.  If that is what people hate, they must be really lonely people.  I guess it would be better if people ran around with no laws, raping and killing daughters, stealing your property, and on simpler terms, just being hateful and without compassion.  Maybe I am just overreacting??   ???
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Mike Ingels

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Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2008, 10:34:28 PM »

Hey, I just want to thank you, balbuscere.

Your comment made me do a little bit of web surfing on the question about whether Jesus spoke Latin.

And my conclusion is that it is possible that he actually spoke it.  And it seems likely to me that he at least knew a few words.

It's so funny when you hit a little hole in your knowledge.  I've spent countless days and hours thinking about these things and I had never really considered this topic.  VERY INTERESTING.

Anyway, I don't think that it means we should mandate a Latin mass.  But I do want to thank you for shaking up the brain a little bit.
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