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Pax

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Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2008, 12:47:58 PM »

...and keep in mind Jesus' uncle, Joseph of Arimathea (sp?!) owned tin mines in Cornwall, the UK.  I've often wondered if, during those years of Jesus' life that aren't recorded in the Bible, he didn't go spend a summer or more with his uncle travelling around to see them?  The locals there would have spoken a form of Gaelic (Brythonic  P-Celtic)  Either way though a multi-lingual Jesus doesn't mean we need a multi-lingual "catholic" church - the Latin wasn't broken, didn't need to be "fixed" by Vatican II...
« Last Edit: November 14, 2008, 02:39:01 PM by balbuscere »
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Pax

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Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2008, 08:24:59 PM »

...and Your're Welcome, Mike.  I, too, appreciate someone putting forth a thought or two that makes me put my brain cells to good use... ;)
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Qui tacet consentit! - "He who is silent consents" - Maxim of Law
"For he who would be deceived, let him." - Roman maxim
"Not to oppose error is to approve it; and not to defend truth is to suppress it; and indeed to neglect to confound evil men, when we can do it, is no less a sin than to encourage them." -Pope St. Felix III
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit.
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Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2008, 11:51:42 PM »

I had the misfortune of going to St. Mary's in Monroe today, for the final send off of an uncle of mine who died a few days ago.  After living in Monroe County for 30 years, off and on, it was my first time actually in that particular "church" and what a confounding experience it was.  The "priest" guy went on and on about how being baptized in the church means a one-way ticket to heaven (just like the baptist preachers used to say when I went to one of those schools.)  I heard the words "risen Christ" and "Christ Risen" more times in that 45 mins? hour? than I had in my entire life before it.
This clueless guy in the purple robes (it's advent, and it was a service-for-the-dead) quoted from the newchurch's booklet which says "Jesus said to his 'friends'... (that's "Disciples" to the rest of us) "...and drink of this, my blood, which will be shed for you and for 'all men,'" instead of "...for many."  He mentioned something about "god" "praying for his church" and I about screamed - since when does "God" need to pray for any damn thing??  He doesn't.  So what "god" they're worshipping there totally evades me.  Jesus never said he was dying "for all" so the robed-dude is a lying piece of caca and the locals just sucked it up. 
The Catholic Church used to sanction the burning of heretics, but newchurch makes them "priests."
« Last Edit: December 08, 2008, 12:47:42 AM by Erich »
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Qui tacet consentit! - "He who is silent consents" - Maxim of Law
"For he who would be deceived, let him." - Roman maxim
"Not to oppose error is to approve it; and not to defend truth is to suppress it; and indeed to neglect to confound evil men, when we can do it, is no less a sin than to encourage them." -Pope St. Felix III
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit.
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Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2009, 04:11:34 PM »

A few days ago we buried the mother of an uncle of mine @ "St. Pius" church in Southgate, the same place we went for my own grandmother's funeral not so long ago.  They played bagpipes for grandma on that day.  Bagpipes.  I love the Bagpipes.  But WTF are bagpipes doing in a supposedly "catholic" church??  First guitar-strumming, Kumbaya-ing "nuns," now bagpipes? 

The Rev. Bishop Williamson has been in the news a lot of late, for two primary reasons:

1) He was ordained a bishop by the late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre of the Society of St. Pius X in 1988 and JP2 threatened all of them with "excommunication" at that time.
2) He has the temerity to speak truth re: the supposed Nazi "holocaust" of Jews during the 1930s & 40s in Europe, where such words are criminal offenses: link follows.

Bishop Richard Williamson - Gas Chambers, Anti-Semitism and the Truth


Below is the first of a 4-part series of the whos the whats and the whys for Archbishop Lefebvre's creation of the SSPX.  Unfortunately for Catholics the SSPX is now being "incorporated" into the fold of heathen brethren now occupying the Vatican and have lost the bearings the founder of that order set for them.

Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre Speaks -1 of 4


I was fortunate enough to be confirmed by Archbishop Lefebvre in 1978 in Redford.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2009, 05:46:10 PM by Erich »
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Qui tacet consentit! - "He who is silent consents" - Maxim of Law
"For he who would be deceived, let him." - Roman maxim
"Not to oppose error is to approve it; and not to defend truth is to suppress it; and indeed to neglect to confound evil men, when we can do it, is no less a sin than to encourage them." -Pope St. Felix III
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit.
Ryht æðelo biþ on ðam móde, næs on ðam flæ-acute

DeamonCohln

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Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2009, 11:26:13 AM »

This is about as pointless as arguing over what color God's hat is.


which is not to far from the truth.
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Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2009, 12:33:37 PM »

Then perhaps you should stick to posting where you have something to add to the debate, Deamon?

There are too many pictures, with their accompanying explanations, to comment on here, but suffice it to say that there's nary a Catholic thought, idea, or rite in any one of them:
The Protestant-Masonic-Pagan Nature of the Novus Ordo Service
« Last Edit: January 29, 2009, 01:54:08 PM by Erich »
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Qui tacet consentit! - "He who is silent consents" - Maxim of Law
"For he who would be deceived, let him." - Roman maxim
"Not to oppose error is to approve it; and not to defend truth is to suppress it; and indeed to neglect to confound evil men, when we can do it, is no less a sin than to encourage them." -Pope St. Felix III
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit.
Ryht æðelo biþ on ðam móde, næs on ðam flæ-acute

DeamonCohln

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Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2009, 02:46:00 PM »

Then perhaps you should stick to posting where you have something to add to the debate, Deamon?

And give up the lulz. No, I'm fine.
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Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2009, 01:57:50 PM »

Just as the Novus Ordo Seclorum, the New World Order, is diabolically-motivated so were the promulgators of the Novus Ordo Missae, the New Order of the Mass, and its most ardent apologist, Joseph Ratzinger:

Conclusion about Benedict XVI <- link

Quote
Benedict XVI is a manifest heretic. We have proven this without any doubt. He teaches that
Our Lord may not be the Messiah; that the Old Covenant is valid; that Jews and others can be
saved without believing in Christ; that schismatics and Protestants don’t need conversion; that
non-Catholics are not bound to accept Vatican I; that Protestant Monasteries should be formed;
that Protestantism is not even heresy; that Mass is valid without words of consecration; that
infant baptism has no purpose; that Scripture is filled with myths; that the false religion of Islam
is noble; that pagan religions are high; that salvation can be had outside the Church; that Catholic
dogmas need to be purged; that Vatican II rejected Catholic teaching on religious liberty; that the unity of the Church does not exist; and that the Resurrection of the Body will not occur, just to name a few.
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Qui tacet consentit! - "He who is silent consents" - Maxim of Law
"For he who would be deceived, let him." - Roman maxim
"Not to oppose error is to approve it; and not to defend truth is to suppress it; and indeed to neglect to confound evil men, when we can do it, is no less a sin than to encourage them." -Pope St. Felix III
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit.
Ryht æðelo biþ on ðam móde, næs on ðam flæ-acute

Lethlweapn

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Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2009, 06:59:30 PM »

Why is it, when I see Novus Ordo, I think Ortho Novum?
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Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2009, 07:42:08 PM »

Why is it, when I see Novus Ordo, I think Ortho Novum?

Ahh, the delicate subliminal message has gotten through! ;D
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Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2009, 09:26:26 PM »

As Roman citizens it's out of the realm of reason that Jesus and the Apostles wouldn't know Latin and speak it when necessary.  The Latin language, however, is part of what made Catholicism universal - no matter where in the world a Catholic went he could hear the exact same mass said the exact same way.  Not so with the novus ordo "missae" in the vernacular.

Careful; you are treading in deep water here. Jesus was NOT citizen of Rome; nor were his disciples. Had the Christ been a citizen, he could have demanded a trial in Rome as Paul did.

You remember that Paul WAS a citizen of Rome, right?

<snip>

The Rev. Bishop Williamson has been in the news a lot of late, for two primary reasons:

1) He was ordained a bishop by the late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre of the Society of St. Pius X in 1988 and JP2 threatened all of them with "excommunication" at that time.
2) He has the temerity to speak truth re: the supposed Nazi "holocaust" of Jews during the 1930s & 40s in Europe, where such words are criminal offenses: link follows.

<snip>


I would like to see the evidence of Williamson's truth... just produce the audio from Churchill, Roosevelt, Eisenhauer, Marshall, DeGualle or any other Allied political or military leader stating that they were part of the cover-up. That it was conspiritorial in nature; bring on your evidence.

Williamson's opinion is just so much dung on the heel of any shoe.
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Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2009, 11:34:42 PM »

Careful; you are treading in deep water here. Jesus was NOT citizen of Rome; nor were his disciples. Had the Christ been a citizen, he could have demanded a trial in Rome as Paul did.
Williamson's opinion is just so much dung on the heel of any shoe.

This thread is about the new-fangled "catholic" church not on the holohoax, which has been covered amply and ad nauseum on another.
Christ and His Disciples were all subject to Roman Law as provincials, if not outright citizens, and the statement that they knew and/or were fluent in the Latin language is valid. 
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Qui tacet consentit! - "He who is silent consents" - Maxim of Law
"For he who would be deceived, let him." - Roman maxim
"Not to oppose error is to approve it; and not to defend truth is to suppress it; and indeed to neglect to confound evil men, when we can do it, is no less a sin than to encourage them." -Pope St. Felix III
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit.
Ryht æðelo biþ on ðam móde, næs on ðam flæ-acute

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Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
« Reply #27 on: February 04, 2009, 08:22:29 AM »

This thread is about the new-fangled "catholic" church not on the holohoax, which has been covered amply and ad nauseum on another.
Christ and His Disciples were all subject to Roman Law as provincials, if not outright citizens, and the statement that they knew and/or were fluent in the Latin language is valid. 

Erich, you were the poster that introduced citizenship.

You were the poster that introduced Williamson.

My request for your first-person evidence still stands.
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Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
« Reply #28 on: February 04, 2009, 11:26:58 AM »

Erich, you were the poster that introduced citizenship.
You were the poster that introduced Williamson.
My request for your first-person evidence still stands.


The statement was exclusive of the point of this thread and I hadn't really given much thought to Jesus' citizenship; I've always merely assumed it was Roman and left it at that.  Thank you for the encouragement to do some research on that assumption, however unrelated:

Here the author breaks down citizenship during Jesus' lifetime into several types and goes on to (somewhat) define each:

Quote
The citizens of Rome were placed into classes. Those classes were Latini, Socii, Provincials, and Peregrini.


This site gives a different listing for citizenship:

Quote
When Rome conquered a city the defeated people would fall into one of four classes. Citizens, Municipia, Latin Allies, and Italian Allies. Other areas maintained their domestic independence but Rome dictated their foreign policies.


On citizenship:
A brief, unenlightening quote on the matter says "Upon inquiring Jesus' citizenship, Pilate was told that Jesus was a Galilean, thus under Herod's jurisdiction, and so Pilate sends Jesus to Herod."  "Jursidiction" and "citizenship" aren't interchangeable expressions.

After untold hours (on a crappy dial-up PC for the time-being, ugh!) I have been unable to come up with a definitive answer to the citizenship question, and withdraw the original usage of the word "citizen" (of Rome) when referring to Christ as insupportable at present.

The introduction of Williamson was for the sole purpose of highlighting his joyous-reunion (sic) with the heretics now occupying the Vatican, not for his views on the holo-whatever - a topic on which I have nothing further to contribute and which had it's own Monroe Talks Thread.

I did, however, manage to find a lot more information on the Linguistics questions discussed earlier in the thread:
Jesus was born during the reign of Herod "the great," the Roman-installed ruler of the vassal state of Palestine, and lived primarily during the reign of his son Herod Antipas.  Jesus' "first" or "native" language was Aramaic, a distinct and separate form of Hebrew, but, depending on which of the various locations he had speaking-opportunities, he would have had to have been fairly fluent in Hebrew (the language of the Synagogues), Greek, and the Latin of the Roman government.  The northern and Galilean areas had been under Greek rule or sphere of influence for centuries and had only then recently seen the ascendancy of the Roman; leading one to believe the everyday language of the locals would have been Greek but that when dealing with the Roman overlords they would have had to have utilized Latin, or had translators to do it for them.  As the New Testament Gospels were all written in Greek, not Aramaic or Hebrew, the Disciples also must have been significantly multi-lingual.  For the mere mortal Disciples and the human-Jesus of that time-period speaking two or more languages would have been quite normal and unremarkable, for the Divine Jesus multi-lingualism would have been a no-brainer. 

[On a related, albeit side note, and perhaps for another thread: "speaking in tongues" means "everyone hears your words in his own language," not the gobble-de-gook the "evangelicals" like to play charades with on their holier-than-thou stages for the awestruck, adoring masses.]

« Last Edit: February 04, 2009, 04:03:44 PM by Erich »
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Qui tacet consentit! - "He who is silent consents" - Maxim of Law
"For he who would be deceived, let him." - Roman maxim
"Not to oppose error is to approve it; and not to defend truth is to suppress it; and indeed to neglect to confound evil men, when we can do it, is no less a sin than to encourage them." -Pope St. Felix III
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit.
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Re: Novus Ordo catholic churches
« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2009, 01:33:45 PM »

Here is a listing of the 40+ Anti-popes the Catholic Church had to contend with prior to Vatican II.  What is most surprising to me, on first reading through the list, is the number of times the name "Benedict" occurs:

20. John Mincius (Benedict X), 1058–1059
36. Pedro de Luna (Benedict XIII), antipope of the Avignon line, 1394–1423
40. Bernard Garnier (the first Benedict XIV), antipope of the Avignon line, 1425–c. 1429
41. Jean Carrier (the second Benedict XIV), antipope of the Avignon line, 1430–1437

Elsewhere, the name Benedict IX is listed three separate times as he was deposed twice but regained the papacy after both depositions.

Another anti-pope was the first John XXIII
38. Baldassare Cossa (John XXIII), antipope of the Pisan line, 1410–1415
...and the satanistic Angelo Giuseppe Roncalli  - AKA "Blessed John XXIII" (1958-63) of Vatican II infamy - took the same name.

Montini (AKA "Paul VI") was the last of the five recent anti-popes to bother with a "papal coronation" which included a tiara, the importance of which was discussed here for those who are curious...

Quote
the release of Benedict's Coat of Arms was the coup de gras - a definite sign that any chances of Benedict XVI returning the conciliar church to the Truths and Traditions of Holy Mother Church were not only slim, but very remote. Yes, those hopes took a severe blow Wednesday with the revealing of his papal coat of arms, or at least they call it a "papal" coat of arms, but the one symbol used by Popes for centuries and synonymous with the Triple Reign or Triregnos has always been the Papal Tiara. Every man since Pope Clement V in the early 1300's who has occupied the Chair has exhibited the tiara in some way on his official coat of arms.

    In retrospect, we should have seen it coming when Paul VI sold his off, John Paul I refused the Papal Coronation or to wear the tiara even though his coat of arms was so traditional. Do you think if John Paul I had the opportunity he'd not do it differently and totally adhere to tradition? And the same for John Paul II who followed suit with ignoring the Papal Coronation, the Solemn Pontifical Oath and the tiara, though he had a semblance of it with sharp streamlined spikes on his coat of arms. But Benedict XVI has scrapped all of those traditions: no Papal Coronation, no Pontifical Oath, no tiara on his head or his coat of arms! Instead we see a modernized miter which gives little evidence of Catholicity in its design though the pallium at the bottom is a "we tried, but couldn't convey any papal identification" effort.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2009, 02:09:23 PM by Erich »
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Qui tacet consentit! - "He who is silent consents" - Maxim of Law
"For he who would be deceived, let him." - Roman maxim
"Not to oppose error is to approve it; and not to defend truth is to suppress it; and indeed to neglect to confound evil men, when we can do it, is no less a sin than to encourage them." -Pope St. Felix III
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit.
Ryht æðelo biþ on ðam móde, næs on ðam flæ-acute
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