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Normal Joe

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23 House Democrats will vote no on Health Bill??
« on: September 08, 2009, 02:53:46 PM »

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/57565-already-23-dems-have-said-they-will-vote-no-on-reform
 
Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare reform
By Mike Soraghan and Michael M. Gleeson - 09/08/09 06:18 AM ET
At least 23 House Democrats already have told constituents or hometown media that they oppose the massive healthcare overhaul touted by President Barack Obama.

You think maybe some of these politicians are listening to the people?? ;D

If Republicans offer the blanket opposition they’ve promised, Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) can afford to lose only 38 members of her 256-member caucus and still pass the bill.

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Collegekid

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Re: 23 House Democrats will vote no on Health Bill??
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2009, 02:56:07 PM »

We don't need the Republicans to pass it. We've got a huge advantage in the house.
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ducksoup

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Re: 23 House Democrats will vote no on Health Bill??
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2009, 03:37:19 PM »

So, the Bludogs went from pretending a compromise to joining the Republican "No" camp.  So?
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Collegekid

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Re: 23 House Democrats will vote no on Health Bill??
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2009, 03:39:33 PM »

Duck, I believe the proper name is a Dino.
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http://daveherndon.blogspot.com/

You believe in life after death, I believe in death after life

I swear it upon Zeus; an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler.

- Socrates


Non Illegitimati Carborundum

"Most men stop when they begin to tire. Good men go until they think they are going to collapse. But the very best know the mind tires before the body and push themselves further and further, beyond all limits. Only when these limits are shattered can the unattainable be reached."

Arghi Murkurhgi

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Re: 23 House Democrats will vote no on Health Bill??
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2009, 04:13:38 PM »

The reality is, there are Democrats that are from area's that believe the propaganda that comes from people who are just as crazy as the ones that believe it!

Unfortunately these people are allowed to vote (that's a joke for the humor impaired).  So you have some dems that are really caught between doing The right thing, and being vilified for it.. hence never being elected again. Or doing nothing, and therefore screwing the entire party, because the BASE that elected Obama did so by recognizing the need for healthcare reform and yes this is to include a public option. 

I really don't think that anyone was prepared for the amount of lies that have been spewed, and the amount of small minded people that believe them!

I really think socially, it reflects just how ignorant the American People can be!

So it is not as detrimental in the Congress, there are plenty that will have their electoral base that could see exactly what the death panels, and all the other crazy stuff, for exactly what they are.

Who is in the hard place, are some of the Senators, like Clair McCaskill.  She Barely won in 2006, and she also knocked out one of the Blounts, who are the "Kennedy's' of Missouri, except they are Republicans and have had a stranglehold on Missouri politics for a few generations.  She knows she cannot dismiss the crazies because they are half of her constituents.  And what got her elected is the people in St. Louis and Kansas City. 

She is not the only Senator in this position, there are about ten.  This is why the numbers are not there.  It is hard to press a person to vote with their party, even if it is the right thing to do!

There is a website, where you can write a letter and have it sent to any major paper in the country.  I just can't think of the name. 

The moderates on this issue need to step up and let their voices be heard, because all these politicians are hearing from are the loonies!

Find that sight and write letters to the editor of the major papers.  Also email all the Democrat Senators and tell them what you want.  They all have email sites that you can find on the Government websites.

They need to hear from everyone!   This is why the Dems lose, we never can organize the way the right wing loonies can.. I am talking about the far far right loonies...   the ones that are writing manifestos and spreading propaganda! 

YOU NEED TO GET INVOLVED OTHER THAN WASTING YOUR TIME WITH THE IDIOTS ON THIS FORUM, TAKE YOUR INPUT TO THE PEOPLE WHERE IT COUNTS!
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ducksoup

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Re: 23 House Democrats will vote no on Health Bill??
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2009, 04:31:00 PM »

To be fair, a lot of those bludogs are in rather republican areas and feel tey are voting the wishes of their district.  Well, if they actually cared what the people said anyway.  So far, it seems they don't.
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Arghi Murkurhgi

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Re: 23 House Democrats will vote no on Health Bill??
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2009, 04:40:15 PM »



Here is a site that directly sends e-mails to your represenatives

http://healthcareforamericanow.org/page/speakout/affordability

Also send e-mails to Clair McCaskill, (D MO) Olympia Snowe (R MA) and Bill Nelson (D FL) these are key Senators to voice you opinion to.  Even though you may not be your Senators, they need to know how their vote affects you!

Get involved!  Get your family, friends, everyone involved.  We cannot afford to allow ignorance to block what we know NEEDS to be done!
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Mike Ingels

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Re: 23 House Democrats will vote no on Health Bill??
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2009, 04:47:55 PM »

If you actually read the article, several of those 23 oppose the bill from the liberal side of the Democratic Party because they want a Canadian-style, single-payer system.  Several will vote "no" if they think that the bill will be killed in the Senate, but might vote for it if has a realistic chance of actually becoming law.  Others would vote "no" to the current iteration of the bill, but could be persuaded to vote yes if the bill were changed.

So, this idea that 23 Dems are automatic "No's" on the bill is very misleading.

And I would actually say the same thing about centrist Senate Republicans like Charles Grassley.  It makes no logical sense for a man like Grassley to say nice things about the bill until the day that he votes for it.

First off, his bargaining power with Obama and the Dems is increased the harder the line he seems to take against it.  If Obama thinks that he needs to give him a lot, Grassley can ask for more in the final deal.

And if Grassley talks tough and hammers the Obama administration, he will be in a better position to sell the bill to his base, which, surprise, is a bunch of Republicans.  It's just like what happens when the Israelis bomb the hell out of the Arabs before they try to make a peace deal with them.  Bargain from a position of strength.

A health care bill WILL pass the Congress.  And it will become law.
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MM1

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Re: 23 House Democrats will vote no on Health Bill??
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2009, 04:49:21 PM »

To be fair, a lot of those bludogs are in rather republican areas and feel tey are voting the wishes of their district.  Well, if they actually cared what the people said anyway.  So far, it seems they don't.

Wow.  That comment sure appears to think and speak for the democrats who are not on board with the program. 

How do you determine which ones are doing what and for what reason?


   
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Frenchfry

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Re: 23 House Democrats will vote no on Health Bill??
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2009, 06:45:59 PM »

From an email:

Do you have 3 minutes this morning?

I need you to call your member of Congress this morning and ask them to oppose any health care plan without a strong public option.

Call this number and ask to speak with your Representative: (202) 224-3121

When you're done, please click here to let us know you called.

Why is this so urgent?

Over the weekend, Max Baucus, the Senate "Democrat" holding up health care reform for the insurance industry, came out with his health care reform plan.  Frankly, it's garbage - no public option, no big reforms.

Baucus's bill actually forces low- to middle-income American to buy "junk" insurance they can't afford to use, amounting to a giant transfer of wealth to the insurance industry.

Real health care reform must include a public option.  Anything else is an insurance industry bailout.

With President Obama speaking to Congress tomorrow night, we need to make that message heard loud and clear.

Call your Representative now: (202) 224-3121

http://firedoglake.com/
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This is what I see when I visit:

"Sorry Frenchfry, you are banned from posting and sending personal messages on this forum.
This ban is not set to expire."

No emails, no warnings, no communication whatsoever...just that ban

May be what happened to the other libs as well.

I guess disabling the report to admin link only on the lib side was indicative of the slanted games they play.

Enjoy your spoon-fed Faux News type right-wing echo-chamber.

Edited to add:

This is the only way to answer some of the questions posed:

1) I did nothing to warrant the banishment, it's political.

2) It's the router that's blocked but considering all the nonsense right-wing games being played by those running the site...it's just not worth it to bypass the banishment block.

3) The moron stalkers from MT contemplating a visit will be considered a threat and can expect to have a bad day if they act upon those idiotic thoughts.

bumfunkegypt@live.com

Arghi Murkurhgi

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Re: 23 House Democrats will vote no on Health Bill??
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2009, 10:36:34 PM »



Here is the link to www.publishaletter.com this will connect you to all the major newspapers. 

Here is the link to the ACLU which gives advice on how to write an effective and efficient letter.  http://action.aclu.org/site/PageServer?pagename=AP_effective_activism  brows around this site, it is a plethora of information.

People Start Writing!  Especially your very real experience in dealing with your own health care.  Like the two poster who last week posted about how much their insurance rates were recently raised.  Mary who owns a small business that is struggling to provide insurance for her employees. 

Or the people who once had insurance but can no longer afford it because they have an illness.  I believe one person said theirs were raised to $1600.00 per month even though their insurance company did not cover half of what they needed.  So going without insurance or having a roof over their head was "the" choice. 

This is what needs to be shared.  Real stories about real people.  How many people do you know who do work and have no insurance?  Or have insurance and it did not cover their treatment.  How about people who have gone bankrupt because of an illness.  Where no amount of "health care savings" could provide for!

How about those without insurance who cannot even find a doctor willing to accept cash? 

Tell your story, write letters to all the major papers, politicians read these and public opinion does matter!
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ducksoup

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Re: 23 House Democrats will vote no on Health Bill??
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2009, 10:51:20 PM »

Wow.  That comment sure appears to think and speak for the democrats who are not on board with the program. 

How do you determine which ones are doing what and for what reason?


   
The Bludogs are a coalition of moderate Dems that work mostly with moderate Republicans.  THe list of them is out there if you look.
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Mike Ingels

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Re: 23 House Democrats will vote no on Health Bill??
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2009, 11:28:22 PM »

The Bludogs are a coalition of moderate Dems that work mostly with moderate Republicans.  THe list of them is out there if you look.


That's not a fair statement.  If you look at voting records, the Blue Dogs (in the House) vote with President Obama 85.7% of the time.  That is just 5.4% lower than Democrats overall.  And there are members of the Blue Dog coalition who actually vote with the president more often than the average House Democrat.

http://blog.lib.umn.edu/cspg/smartpolitics/2009/07/how_blue_are_the_blue_dog_demo.php

Whether the liberals like it or not, Obama is their man.  The only reason that Obama was even able to challenge Clinton in the primaries last year was because Clinton moved to the center to try and become more "electable" in the general election.

But liberals wanted purity.  So, they ignored decades of progressive work from Hillary and decided to back Obama.  And he just barely won.  Moderate state after moderate state went for Hillary over Obama in the primaries.  And I'd bet that Michigan would have gone for her, too, if we had actually participated in the primary process.

Liberals need to remember, however, what happened in the general election.  All of those moderate Democratic voters who voted for Hillary and had to grit their teeth to vote for Obama went out to vote and pulled the lever for Obama.  That was not an easy vote or a pure vote for a lot of us.

And it's because we are Democrats.  And it's because we believe that the Democratic Party offers the best chance to protect the interests of the middle and working classes.

Now, the liberals are squawking because they don't like the idea of casting a vote for a more moderate health bill.  Well, join the damn club.  Are you real Democrats?  Are you in it for the long haul?  Or did you just take over the party for kicks?

And aren't you being just a bit harsh to slam on the Blue Dogs after they pretty much all came out for your guy when in mattered in November?
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Arghi Murkurhgi

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Re: 23 House Democrats will vote no on Health Bill??
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2009, 12:10:11 AM »



I know that the constituents for some of the liberal members of congress are not happy with Obama, that is why I find it so laughable about the "agenda" that is being spread about Obama.  If people were paying attention to what is going within the Democratic Party you know that is simply not true!

I feel that the members of Congress who are taking the stance Public Option or nothing maybe doing as much damage as what President Obama is doing to himself by not rallying the dems and at least get them on the same page.

Personally, I feel the public option is much needed. If I could do a power point presentation I could show you all the reasons why.  The whole myth of Obama wanting to create a single payer system, Universal Health Care as the ONLY option is simply not true!  We can see this by his recent lack of commitment.   

Mike I hope you are right about a bill that will pass.  My concern is the Senate, and what will they do to it there?   I know a bill is better than no bill at all, but I also don't want to see another Medicare Part D fiasco.   I am also not happy with the 80 billion Pharma, but I can see why.  A trade off, ending the donut holes in Medicare Part D, and no price negotiations for ten years. 

Before people start yelling, it was Bush that made it that we can't negotiate and gave us donut holes.. so I can see the trade off, or the Pharma would spend the 80 billion on propaganda against any plan.  That's just the way it is..
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Frenchfry

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Re: 23 House Democrats will vote no on Health Bill??
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2009, 12:17:17 AM »

That's right, the voters rejected moderate Hillary Clinton and chose liberal Obama.

The blue dogs are the moderates and are out of step with the electorate.

If my wife only went home with me 85.7% of the time I'd divorce her.....if the blue dogs are intent on destroying the unity of having a majority and all that comes with wielding that power then their value is diminished enough that they should be replaced.

Now is not the time for right-wingers nor moderates......it's time to grab the bull by the horns and "git-r-done"
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This is what I see when I visit:

"Sorry Frenchfry, you are banned from posting and sending personal messages on this forum.
This ban is not set to expire."

No emails, no warnings, no communication whatsoever...just that ban

May be what happened to the other libs as well.

I guess disabling the report to admin link only on the lib side was indicative of the slanted games they play.

Enjoy your spoon-fed Faux News type right-wing echo-chamber.

Edited to add:

This is the only way to answer some of the questions posed:

1) I did nothing to warrant the banishment, it's political.

2) It's the router that's blocked but considering all the nonsense right-wing games being played by those running the site...it's just not worth it to bypass the banishment block.

3) The moron stalkers from MT contemplating a visit will be considered a threat and can expect to have a bad day if they act upon those idiotic thoughts.

bumfunkegypt@live.com
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