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[JL]

this was from another post...a question intended for shaggy.  but i'd like to pose it to anyone who views US actions (be they wars, torture, spying, corporate welfare) as atrocities, and also views taxation as voluntary:

answer this:  why are you voluntarily funding a war you view as an atrocity?  why don't you simply stop funding it?  if it's voluntary as you claim, there should be no reason for you to keep funding it. 

[lordfly]

Valid point, although we have no direct control over where the money goes. We can only replace and oust the people that control the money flow.

Your sentences sound like I'm writing a check to Uncle Sam for purposes of "Waging War" for the amount of $4,504.23.

[JL]

Valid point, although we have no direct control over where the money goes. We can only replace and oust the people that control the money flow.

Your sentences sound like I'm writing a check to Uncle Sam for purposes of "Waging War" for the amount of $4,504.23.

so what you're saying is:  having government roads and a post office is worth the blood of millions of people, most of them innocent. 

[JL]

Valid point, although we have no direct control over where the money goes. We can only replace and oust the people that control the money flow.

Your sentences sound like I'm writing a check to Uncle Sam for purposes of "Waging War" for the amount of $4,504.23.

you can be sure the majority of your money is going toward military action.  that has been the case for many years, and there's no chance of that changing any time soon. 

why are you people afraid to admit that taxation is forceful? 

[SMASH]

Valid point, although we have no direct control over where the money goes. We can only replace and oust the people that control the money flow.
Your sentences sound like I'm writing a check to Uncle Sam for purposes of "Waging War" for the amount of $4,504.23.

I wish this were true, and it is to a degree.

Unfortunately the ones who control that flow of money are not elected by the people, but are in the board rooms of large banks and in positions of power in organizations that control our policies both foreign and domestic.

[Greg Chamberlain]

I think JL misunderstands what "voluntary taxation" means. It has more to do with it being an honor system where you self-declare your taxes, than it does with granting free will consent on having your money taken.

Another paradigm of the "voluntary" tax system applies to taxing behaviors and not "state of being". Like, a person who owns no property and consumes no government services or public resources is not taxed. However as our society has industrialized and our technology advanced, that type of life has become less and less practical.

[jbs49238]

No he said:

"we have no direct control over where the money goes. We can only replace and oust the people that control the money flow.

Your sentences sound like I'm writing a check to Uncle Sam for purposes of "Waging War" for the amount of $4,504.23."

There really is no supposition in that statement!

[JL]

I think JL misunderstands what "voluntary taxation" means. It has more to do with it being an honor system where you self-declare your taxes, than it does with granting free will consent on having your money taken.

Another paradigm of the "voluntary" tax system applies to taxing behaviors and not "state of being". Like, a person who owns no property and consumes no government services or public resources is not taxed. However as our society has industrialized and our technology advanced, that type of life has become less and less practical.

no, i'm not referring to the misleading use of the term "voluntary" as used by the IRS.  i'm referring to its use by the people in these forums who view taxation as voluntary. 

and your second paragraph ignores that people have the inherent right to freely exchange with one another.  the option then becomes, lose your right to freely exchange with one another or lose a portion of your earnings.  that is not voluntary.  unless you have no intentions of exchanging with anyone, or working, OR if you have no problem with giving the government a significant portion of you earnings, you are being forced to do something against your will. 

[PXaiver]

Really JL?  Ummm its a trade off.  Yes I like my roads and libraries but even though I don't condone every war the u.s. Has been in since I have been a taxpayer I do approve of the majority of our governments actions.  The corporate bail out I definitely approve of and although I don't support the war in iraq I do support the war in afghanistan.  I also support the billions in aid going to forigen countries not to mention the domestic aid.  As for the innocents you speak of it is sadly the cost of war.  How I reconcile this is by believing all of my tax dollars are going to something positive.  Its a trade off and at least I speak out the things I'm against instead of being a coward and playing armchair QB. Only by voicing your outrage can you be heard which is something you can't seem to grasp.

[JL]

Really JL?  Ummm its a trade off.  Yes I like my roads and libraries but even though I don't condone every war the u.s. Has been in since I have been a taxpayer I do approve of the majority of our governments actions.  The corporate bail out I definitely approve of and although I don't support the war in iraq I do support the war in afghanistan.  I also support the billions in aid going to forigen countries not to mention the domestic aid.  As for the innocents you speak of it is sadly the cost of war.  How I reconcile this is by believing all of my tax dollars are going to something positive.  Its a trade off and at least I speak out the things I'm against instead of being a coward and playing armchair QB. Only by voicing your outrage can you be heard which is something you can't seem to grasp.

it's amazing what a change in president will do to people.  democrat wars are ok.  sick.  you people turn my stomach. 

use your own money for these evil things.  if the deaths of all these innocent people is worth it to you to have the half-assed monopoly services forced on us by the government, then pay for it with your own labor, don't force others to pay for it.  many of us would rather not support immoral wars and the like.  and many of us would rather provide charity directly, rather than have it sent from one corrupt government to another.  you're deluding yourself.  you have been duped by the government. 

where you get the moral authority to trade innocent human life for your cherished government services is beyond me. 

[JL]

does everyone else think like shaggy?  do you all think it's a good trade off:  millions of people killed, injured, tortured, spied on...for some government services, and the deluded belief that a minute fraction of your money went to help feed people prior to bombing their homes?  you're all going to keep buying this package deal with your "voluntary" taxes? 

[PXaiver]

JL let remind you that you are the one paying your taxes but not protesting what you feel is wrong.  Oh and for the record my tax dollars have not resulted in millions being tourtered spied on etc.  I haven't been a tax payer long enough for that to happen.

[JL]

JL let remind you that you are the one paying your taxes but not protesting what you feel is wrong.  Oh and for the record my tax dollars have not resulted in millions being tourtered spied on etc.  I haven't been a tax payer long enough for that to happen.

oh, well, as long as YOUR tax dollars are clean...what a foolish thing to say. 

[JL]

JL let remind you that you are the one paying your taxes but not protesting what you feel is wrong.  Oh and for the record my tax dollars have not resulted in millions being tourtered spied on etc.  I haven't been a tax payer long enough for that to happen.

what a pathetic attempt to dig yourself out of this hole you've dug. 

[PXaiver]

What is pathetic is that you are throwing stones in a glass house.