MonroeTalks.com > Categories > Politics and Government > Guess what? Obama's free health care ain't FREE!


Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5   Go Down

Author Topic: Guess what? Obama's free health care ain't FREE!  (Read 1895 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Flanders

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2174
Re: Guess what? Obama's free health care ain't FREE!
« Reply #30 on: January 05, 2010, 09:15:27 PM »



I know you're fishing for a talking point, it's as clear as day. It's a wonder why I bother in this cesspool of political fappery anymore.


Because it's absolutely HI lariously entertaining.. no really, does anyone really learn anything here except for the occasional plumber recommendation?
Logged

lordfly

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7567
  • Fancy.
Re: Guess what? Obama's free health care ain't FREE!
« Reply #31 on: January 05, 2010, 09:16:30 PM »

Because it's absolutely HI lariously entertaining.. no really, does anyone really learn anything here except for the occasional plumber recommendation?

I learn on a daily basis that my willpower to avoid posting such fappery is essentially nil.
Logged
your mom goes to college.

John Kopke

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4426
Re: Guess what? Obama's free health care ain't FREE!
« Reply #32 on: January 05, 2010, 09:36:05 PM »

Have you been watching C-span, or are you just trying to egg progressives on a campaign promise Obama made?

How many public debates have the Republicans initiated, or even promised on? Patriot Act? Iraq War? Medicare overhauls? Anything? Bueller?

I know you're fishing for a talking point, it's as clear as day. It's a wonder why I bother in this cesspool of political fappery anymore.

LF:
This bill isn't some one or two year transportation bill boondoggle, this is major legislation that will have a profound effect on health care delivery in this country. Polls indicate the people do not support this bill. And it isn't just those on the right who are upset. If this bill lived up to the Reid-Pelosi talking points then they wouldn't have any need to hide it from the folks, and rush-ram it through in the dead of the night.

And all those public debate items you mentioned are bogus in the context of this legislation. In each case the Republicans never had a filibuster proof Senate majority. They couldn't have happened without some Dem support.

And still you're tap dancing. You accuse me of fishing for a talking point. Well I have a position. Let C-Span in. Let the people see what the pols have planned for us. Yes a talking point would be that LF is against letting the folks view the proceedings because this bill is garbage and can't be passed in the light of day. Try being straight forward for a change.
The tap dance is getting old.

Logged
John Kopke

Misty2000

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 445
Re: Guess what? Obama's free health care ain't FREE!
« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2010, 11:22:19 PM »

......But, aside from that, I don't see why the tea party/caucus/born again former R's push for lower taxes for the very wealthy, making the rest of the workers pay the wealthy 's share.   ................Why can't the working man get a share of the pie and earn a decent living wage................

Why does anyone have the right to take from the sucessful people who worked hard to get what they have?  Why is anyone entitled to someone else's money?  What happened to the American work ethic of earning your own money?

The working man deserves a share of someone else's money?  Where is that in the constitution?

Most people make their own bed, they should lay in it.  For those who have no control I have no problem paying.....for you, you can pay your own way.
Logged

Misty2000

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 445
Re: Guess what? Obama's free health care ain't FREE!
« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2010, 11:25:35 PM »

X2, duck!! My answer is that they are just inherently GREEDY! They want it all for themselves. Gluttons!

So you deserve other people's money...because why...I don't get it.  Why do YOU deserve someone else's hard earned money?

Why don't you pay your fair share and everyone else pays their fair share?  You like the socialist idea of redistribution of wealth?
Logged

Monique

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5427
Re: Guess what? Obama's free health care ain't FREE!
« Reply #35 on: January 05, 2010, 11:45:51 PM »

So you deserve other people's money...because why...I don't get it.  Why do YOU deserve someone else's hard earned money?

Why don't you pay your fair share and everyone else pays their fair share?  You like the socialist idea of redistribution of wealth?
Well, the HAVES have a way of getting everything they can get their grubby hands on, (loopholes, breaks, etc.), that it's hard for the 'regular folk' to get a share. Everyone--EVERYONE--deserves to have a comfortable life. No one should go hungry or worry about providing for their family. Why do you think that YOU deserve it all?! You selfish bastard!
Logged

Misty2000

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 445
Re: Guess what? Obama's free health care ain't FREE!
« Reply #36 on: January 06, 2010, 12:01:38 AM »

Well, the HAVES have a way of getting everything they can get their grubby hands on, (loopholes, breaks, etc.), that it's hard for the 'regular folk' to get a share. Everyone--EVERYONE--deserves to have a comfortable life. No one should go hungry or worry about providing for their family. Why do you think that YOU deserve it all?! You selfish bastard!

The constitution does not guarantee anything.  You have the right to the pursuit of happiness, you are not guaranteed it.

Who is the "regular folk"?  Is it the normal middle class working family?  If you make a career decision to take a job that makes $30,000/year and someone else makes a career decision to train for a job that makes $100,000 why are you entitled to some of their money?

You made a choice and they made a choice.  By your theory you should sell you home, and live in a garbage apartment and send all of your extra money to Ethiopia.  No?

America is the land of opportunity, you can choose your opportunity or you can choose not to take opportunities.

Why do you think redistribution of wealth is ok?  You are entitled?
Logged

Monique

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5427
Re: Guess what? Obama's free health care ain't FREE!
« Reply #37 on: January 06, 2010, 12:02:49 AM »

You're a selfish greedy person. That's all I have to say.
Logged

ducksoup

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8677
Re: Guess what? Obama's free health care ain't FREE!
« Reply #38 on: January 06, 2010, 12:06:42 AM »

Why does anyone have the right to take from the sucessful people who worked hard to get what they have?  Why is anyone entitled to someone else's money?  What happened to the American work ethic of earning your own money?

The working man deserves a share of someone else's money?  Where is that in the constitution?

Most people make their own bed, they should lay in it.  For those who have no control I have no problem paying.....for you, you can pay your own way.
Oh, I see. By your words, only the wealthy DESERVE to make money because they have the money.  But, those that work HARD at making a living can wallow in cesspools.

Where in any of that did I say take the rich mans money and give it freely to the poor or anyone else.  You are ludicrous.  I said THEIR FAIR SHARE FOR WHAT WORK THEY DO.

Why do you need to try to distort things incorrectly to make the working people poor and the rich even richer?
Logged
After one taste, you'll duck soup the rest of your life ... Groucho Marx.

Misty2000

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 445
Re: Guess what? Obama's free health care ain't FREE!
« Reply #39 on: January 06, 2010, 12:10:22 AM »

You're a selfish greedy person. That's all I have to say.

Your theory is that people with money owe you something.  I consider it lazy, make your own money.  Get off your lazy butt and make your own way in the greatest country in the world.  Opportunity abounds.
Logged

Monique

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5427
Re: Guess what? Obama's free health care ain't FREE!
« Reply #40 on: January 06, 2010, 12:12:24 AM »

Your theory is that people with money owe you something.  I consider it lazy, make your own money.  Get off your lazy butt and make your own way in the greatest country in the world.  Opportunity abounds.
People like you make me want to sit on my butt and collect a welfare check! I think I'll order one up pronto! I'll tell 'em to bill it to you!!
Logged

ducksoup

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8677
Re: Guess what? Obama's free health care ain't FREE!
« Reply #41 on: January 06, 2010, 12:12:51 AM »

Why should someone working be worth les than what it takes to live at least semi comfortably?  WHy does the working mans life have to be of no value to you so you can send it all up to the rich?  Why are only the people with money of any value?

Why would you say to sell everything and send it to another country?  THat isn't even close to what I said.  I implied clearly,  OUR WORKING PEOPLE, not those on welfare, or in other countries.  Why is it so hard to understand that working people are as valuable as those gods you worship that have all the wealth in our country.

I also said I don't want to take away from them -- I want the workers to make what they are worth, which according to me is more than the ten cents a day you people think we are worth (if you even give workers that value)
Logged
After one taste, you'll duck soup the rest of your life ... Groucho Marx.

ducksoup

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8677
Re: Guess what? Obama's free health care ain't FREE!
« Reply #42 on: January 06, 2010, 12:16:44 AM »

WHy do you people need to push that a worker making only a bare enough amount to survive even though he works HARD for 70-80-90 hours a week should make even less so those rich gods of yours can make a few dollars more.  They treat workers as replaceable, and apparently so do you.  WHich is confusing, since I assume you are one.
Logged
After one taste, you'll duck soup the rest of your life ... Groucho Marx.

Frenchfry

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 27290
Re: Guess what? Obama's free health care ain't FREE!
« Reply #43 on: January 06, 2010, 12:23:06 AM »

The fact is.....the wealthy tend to have a higher percentage of disposable income....this says it best:    
   * In a market economy, the larger an investment is, the higher its rate of return. This is due to both economies of scale and the increased range of investment opportunities. In addition to these economic forces, those who control greater amounts of capital within a society are able to participate more directly in shaping government policy, often in ways that further maximize their wealth. Thus, due to both economic and political realities within a market economy, it is a natural process for the wealthiest individuals and firms in a society to become disproportionately wealthier over time. In order to prevent the political instability resulting from the natural stratification of the populace into an ever smaller and wealthier aristocracy or moneyed class, and an ever larger working class, all free market democracies engage in progressive taxation and programs to enhance economic opportunity for the lower and middle classes.

    * In response to the concern that progressive taxation creates an unfair psychological burden on the wealthy, it is argued that if the utility gained from income exhibits diminishing marginal returns, as many psychologists assert (see Weber-Fechner law), then for the tax burden to be shared in a utilitarian way the tax-bill must increase non-linearly with income.

    * As income levels rise, marginal propensity to consume tend to drop. Thus it is often argued that economic demand can be stimulated by reducing the tax burden on lower incomes while raising the burden on higher incomes.

    * It is also argued that people with higher income tend to have a higher percentage of that in disposable income, and can thus afford a greater tax burden (this is the “vertical equity” argument). Some would claim that a person earning exactly enough money to pay for food and housing cannot afford to pay any taxes without it causing material damage, while someone earning twice as much can afford to pay up to half their income in taxes.

    * Some believe that the wealthy have a disproportionately greater interest in maintaining societal goods typically supported by taxation such as security of property rights, defense and infrastructure, as they have much more to lose if these fail than do the poor. Public investments in defense and foreign aid often support assets abroad whose expropriation is a far greater risk than is the risk involving domestic investments.

    * A progressive tax is an automatic stabilizer in the sense that if a person were to suffer a decrease in wages due to a recession then the money regained by being in a lower tax bracket lessens this blow.

    * It is inherent in tax policy that it implements economic and social policy. People who are concerned about a runaway, cancerous character in the global economy, greenhouse gases, etc., see benefits in progressive taxation, both in its braking effect on the economy and in helping shape economic activities towards necessities more effectively than purely monetary or fiscal policies.

    * As long as after-tax income is a strictly increasing function of gross income, there is a monetary incentive to increase compensation received. Indeed, for any particular income goal, the higher the tax rate, more compensation one must receive to reach that income goal. For this reason, progressive income tax may increase the incentive to produce among the largest producers (if higher production is truly associated with higher compensation).

    * A progressive tax reduces income inequality, which has been reported to have a number of societal benefits, such as lower homicide rates at all income levels. Richard Wilkinson argues that in a more unequal society, even middle class people on good incomes are likely to be less healthy, less likely to be involved in community life, more likely to be obese, and more likely to be victims of violence. Amongst the wealthiest quarter of countries, there is no relation between a country's wealth and general population health, but within a country, relative levels can have an effect.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_tax
Logged
WARNING! Reading Republican/Conservative/Tea Party comments will lower your intelligence quotient!

The new motto of the obstructionist Republican Party/Conservative-right/Tea Party...refuse to legislate, just investigate.

Misty2000

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 445
Re: Guess what? Obama's free health care ain't FREE!
« Reply #44 on: January 06, 2010, 12:36:16 AM »

WHy do you people need to push that a worker making only a bare enough amount to survive even though he works HARD for 70-80-90 hours a week should make even less so those rich gods of yours can make a few dollars more.  They treat workers as replaceable, and apparently so do you.  WHich is confusing, since I assume you are one.

Did your parents teach you that you are entitled to a certain amount of money?  What entitles you to anything?  If a person is working 70-80-90 hours a week then I am sure they have enough money to live "somewhat confortably".

You refuse to deine the rich gods...who are these rich people and if they worked hard for their money why is anyone, you or me, entitled to it?

When I made little to no money I lived in a trailer or apartment.  As life has moved on I have moved up.  If I made the decision to not better myself then I still live in a trailer or apartment.  That is a choice.  At what point does entitlement and redistribution of wealth kick in?

Are you entitled to a home?

Are you entitled to $9.00/hour?

Are you entitled to have cable TV?

Who should pay for it...people making $80,000....$100,000...$200,000?

At what point in time do people owe you money through government redistibution of wealth?
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5   Go Up