MonroeTalks.com > Categories > Religion & Philosophy > When does life begin?


Poll

When do you believe life begins?

At conception.
- 13 (56.5%)
When the fetus is genetically different from the mother.
- 0 (0%)
When the fetus acquires a discernible brain wave pattern.
- 5 (21.7%)
At birth.
- 4 (17.4%)
After birth.
- 1 (4.3%)

Total Members Voted: 23

Voting closed: October 28, 2008, 03:41:03 PM


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Author Topic: When does life begin?  (Read 4941 times)

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Greg Chamberlain

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Re: When does life begin?
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2007, 08:22:32 AM »

Quote
why not put this topic under parenting?

I intended for this to tie in with the abortion debate, and didn't think that would be appropriate in the parenting area.

even though noone has voted for this choice. I think its a scientific fact that a fetus has dna completely seperate of their mother. so number 2 is sorta null and void.

I included it because it gives a staunch pro-lifer some wiggle room when it comes to cases like rape and whether it is moral for the mother to take an emergency contraceptive (morning after pill). From the article I linked to:

Quote
Scientists now choose to view fertilization as a process that occurs over a period of 12-24 hours. After sperm are released they must remain in the female reproductive tract for seven hours before they are capable of fertilizing the egg. Approximately ten hours are required for the sperm to travel up to the fallopian tube where they find the egg. The meeting of the egg and the sperm itself is not even an instantaneous process, but rather a complex biochemical interaction through which the sperm ultimately reaches the inner portion of the egg. Following fertilization, the chromosomes contained within the sperm and the chromosomes of the egg meet to form a diploid organism, now called a zygote, over a period of 24 hours. (Shannon and Wolter 1990). Thus, even if one were to argue that life begins at fertilization, fertilization is not a moment, but rather a continuous process lasting 12-24 hours, with an additional 24 hours required to complete the formation of a diploid individual.

I chose "when the fetus acquires a discernible brain wave pattern" because it seems to mark the instant when an individual is formed, a human individual life. As such I subscribe to the "Neurological view" that is presented in the article I linked to:

Quote
Contemporary American (and Japanese) society defines death as the loss of the pattern produced by a cerebral electroencephalogram (EEG). If life and death are based upon the same standard of measurement, then the beginning of human life should be recognized as the time when a fetus acquires a recognizable EEG pattern. This acquisition occurs approximately 24- 27 weeks after the conception of the fetus and is the basis for the neurological view of the beginning of human life.

It makes sense to use the same criteria for the beginning of life as we use for the ending of life.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2007, 08:30:43 AM by Greg Chamberlain »
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schrodingers_cat

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Re: When does life begin?
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2007, 08:24:50 AM »

t makes sense to use the same criteria for the beginning of life as we use for the ending of life.

Excellent point and I agree.
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schrodingers_cat

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Re: When does life begin?
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2007, 08:26:37 AM »

i guess if you equate a baby with a tumor it would be easier to "remove".


I am clearly stating the scientific fact that tumor cells multiply similarly with that of a growing fetus.
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marilyn.monroe

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Re: When does life begin?
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2007, 08:46:28 AM »

Apparently you and i were little clumps of cells once and we developed into adults.
scientifically, you would trace your development back to conception to define where you originated from, when your "life" began.

Why isn't it appropriate for Parenting? When you make a baby...you're a parent.
Don't try to hide the truth. Abortion isn't pretty no matter what side you're on.
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amg

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Re: When does life begin?
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2007, 09:17:43 AM »

I definitely know of adults who are clumps of cells, or tumors, with brain waves of course.  Too bad there isn't the choice of adulthood abortions!
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schrodingers_cat

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Re: When does life begin?
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2007, 09:29:53 AM »

I believe that my analogy is being misconstrued.  I was replying to bethany's statement
Conception. How can a baby grow if it's not alive?

and I was stating that a tumor grows and we do not define it as alive.  In no way am I calling a child a tumor and that they should be "removed like one".  I just wanted to try to clear that up.
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bethany6788

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Re: When does life begin?
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2007, 09:40:02 AM »

I believe that my analogy is being misconstrued.  I was replying to bethany's statement
and I was stating that a tumor grows and we do not define it as alive.  In no way am I calling a child a tumor and that they should be "removed like one".  I just wanted to try to clear that up.

what do we refer to a tumor as??? we do say it's growing...so it's just a dead thing that's growing?? i'm sorry but i completely disagree.
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amg

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Re: When does life begin?
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2007, 09:45:20 AM »

I was being sarcastic.  To me though, aside from all the medical and intellectual opinions, it seems like this question is defined by if the life is "wanted" or "planned."  If you talk to a person who is trying to get pregnant, who can't wait to be a parent, they feel they have a baby the minute the pregnancy test is positive.  If they miscarry, they feel the grief of their child's death.  Our laws are confusing too.  Why is it considered a double homicide if a mother who is pregnant is killed and her fetus dies too?  That is saying the fetus is a life.  I could never understand that.
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schrodingers_cat

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Re: When does life begin?
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2007, 09:57:30 AM »

I was being sarcastic.  To me though, aside from all the medical and intellectual opinions, it seems like this question is defined by if the life is "wanted" or "planned."  If you talk to a person who is trying to get pregnant, who can't wait to be a parent, they feel they have a baby the minute the pregnancy test is positive.  If they miscarry, they feel the grief of their child's death.  Our laws are confusing too.  Why is it considered a double homicide if a mother who is pregnant is killed and her fetus dies too?  That is saying the fetus is a life.  I could never understand that.

I agree that the definition in the law seems to float to whichever idea is appropriate at the time.  There are issues with the laws in many aspects...  look at how the death penalty is imposed.   When it seems to be an extremely dispicable act of killing a whole family, it may be ordered.  But then why isn't it a punishment for all murders?  (Not trying to get into capital punishment, just stating that there are inconsistencies in laws that make them confusing.)
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zard0z

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Re: When does life begin?
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2007, 09:59:20 AM »

I believe it starts at birth, when the "baby" takes it's first breath of air on it's own...That is when the "life" of that child begins to be protected under the laws and rights of human beings...I know a lot of mothers will disagree and say that their children were alive in their wombs, yes that is true...And this is where you're going to really start hating me, but until that child is born and separate from the mother it is simply a "part" of the mother...

My views on abortion are that it is entirely up to the mother to decide...I don't believe in any law in which a person has no control with what can be done with their own body...
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schrodingers_cat

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Re: When does life begin?
« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2007, 10:17:37 AM »

what do we refer to a tumor as??? we do say it's growing...so it's just a dead thing that's growing?? i'm sorry but i completely disagree.

No need to apologize -- you should never apologize for having your own opinion.

There is a difference between a tumor and a child.  A child has a brain.  It is what makes us what we are.  The complexity of our brain is what makes us human.  A tumor is a caused by a mutation of a cell's gene, and then continues multiply.  Are cells alive?  Yes.  Are they human life?  No.

Perhaps I misspoke when I said that a tumor is not alive.  A better way to state it is that a tumor is not alive in a human sense.  It does not have a functional brain, therefore, it is not life.

In relation to a fetus, the cells will continue to grow, replicate, and then split.  Some of these cells will become brain cells.  Having a brain to me is the first step toward becoming a human life.  But it has not yet begun.  When the brain becomes funtional, that is where life comes into play.  Otherwise, we're talking about a large grouping a cells.
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zard0z

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Re: When does life begin?
« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2007, 10:27:16 AM »

I've noticed that most of the people taking the poll chose "at conception"...Well, if this is the oh so important moment in the beginnings of a life, why don't we celebrate that day and not the day of our "birth"...Just a thought... :-\

This might be too touchy of a topic to discuss on this forum, being that most on here get offended too easily...
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BigRedDog

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Re: When does life begin?
« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2007, 10:42:13 AM »

I've noticed that most of the people taking the poll chose "at conception"...Well, if this is the oh so important moment in the beginnings of a life, why don't we celebrate that day and not the day of our "birth"...Just a thought... :-\

This might be too touchy of a topic to discuss on this forum, being that most on here get offended too easily...

maybe this one belongs back over in the "sex" thread zardoz...   

We had 3 kids...   I couldn't tell you the "moment of conception" or even the "night" for any of the 3... 

(and yes I know there will be a few exceptions to that)...

seems like most couples are either trying not to have kids or are trying to have kids...   either way, probably not easy to pin it down...

Great idea for another flower and gift giving theme for the related businesses out there...
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Re: When does life begin?
« Reply #28 on: October 30, 2007, 10:48:57 AM »


Great idea for another flower and gift giving theme for the related businesses out there...

As in like a Hallmark card saying....congrats on your conception....... :-\
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zard0z

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Re: When does life begin?
« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2007, 10:49:43 AM »

Great idea for another flower and gift giving theme for the related businesses out there...


Yeah, like we need another one...LOL

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