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[ducksoup]

Ohhh, I just love stupid hypotheticals that make no sense in the real world. Can I try.

Suppose the people voted that the Tasmanian Devil and Donald Duck could put you into a transporter and shoot you a hundred million light years away in a millisecond and chang you into a cartoon character.   Would you then be able to claim a 100 fee for not using a space shuttle?

[JL]

Invalid argument.  I have insurance that would pay for my home and frankly I wish someone would burn my house down.  That being said, I'd vote for the $100 option because I'd get that on top of my insurance with which I would purchase a Brew Club membership to The Original Gravity Brewing company.  After having a few pints I would then get law enforcement to arrest and prosecute those involved in burning my house down.  Either way it's a win win for me.

 I realize you struggle with hypothetical scenarios, but try really hard.  let's switch it up a bit.  the vote now consists of option one:  50 out of 100 people in your neighborhood will be forced to give $1000 each which will be distributed to the other 50 people.  option two requires the reverse.  you are in the payer category for option one.  in other words if option one wins, you owe $1000.  and there is no legal recourse.  so you can't go to the police to get your money back; they are part of the system that would enforce the outcome of the election. 

which would you vote for?  and if you chose not to vote, would you be advocating the outcome? 

[JL]

Ohhh, I just love stupid hypotheticals that make no sense in the real world. Can I try.

Suppose the people voted that the Tasmanian Devil and Donald Duck could put you into a transporter and shoot you a hundred million light years away in a millisecond and chang you into a cartoon character.   Would you then be able to claim a 100 fee for not using a space shuttle?

the hypothetical scenarios are thought experiments (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_experiment) that provide us with a way of understanding ideas that may not seem apparent at first glance.  it would serve you well to start thinking a little more in depth. 

[lordfly]

Resistance is futile. Vote Palin in 2012.

[PXaiver]

I realize you struggle with hypothetical scenarios, but try really hard.  let's switch it up a bit.  the vote now consists of option one:  50 out of 100 people in your neighborhood will be forced to give $1000 each which will be distributed to the other 50 people.  option two requires the reverse.  you are in the payer category for option one.  in other words if option one wins, you owe $1000.  and there is no legal recourse.  so you can't go to the police to get your money back; they are part of the system that would enforce the outcome of the election. 

which would you vote for?  and if you chose not to vote, would you be advocating the outcome? 

Since everyone is effected I would get together a group to put a third option on the ballot where no one has to pay.  Once that option is on the ballot then I would vote for the third option.

The problems with hypotheticals are that they are just that, hypothetical.


Tell me, what is it exactly that's keeping you from starting your own country and living in anarchy?

[JL]

voting and elections are a distraction.  the point of this post was to call into question the practice of one person or group of people initiating force over another group or individual.  i have yet to hear a reasonable explanation of how this can be justified. 

[JL]

Since everyone is effected I would get together a group to put a third option on the ballot where no one has to pay.  Once that option is on the ballot then I would vote for the third option.

The problems with hypotheticals are that they are just that, hypothetical.


Tell me, what is it exactly that's keeping you from starting your own country and living in anarchy?

because the law does not allow that freedom.  that's what the point is.  we are forced to abide by the rules made by whomever the majority happens to be whether we like it or not.  and perhaps you recall what happens when states try to secede from the union:  the union bombs you into submission. 

[PXaiver]

because the law does not allow that freedom.  that's what the point is.  we are forced to abide by the rules made by whomever the majority happens to be whether we like it or not.  and perhaps you recall what happens when states try to secede from the union:  the union bombs you into submission. 

Really?  The last time I checked there were plenty of islands scattered out in the Pacific that you could claim as your own and start a nation.  What about making a purchase of land from someone like Canada?

voting and elections are a distraction.  the point of this post was to call into question the practice of one person or group of people initiating force over another group or individual.  i have yet to hear a reasonable explanation of how this can be justified. 

Voting and elections are how our government works.  Sorry, but that's it and your principles allow for it.  You're allowed to elect someone to represent you and I'm allowed to elect someone to represent me.  It's not perfect but it works.  Now tell me how lawless anarchy would work better?

Oh and feel free to pm me if you want my address so you can take back some of the things I "stole" from you.

[JL]

Really?  The last time I checked there were plenty of islands scattered out in the Pacific that you could claim as your own and start a nation.  What about making a purchase of land from someone like Canada?

Voting and elections are how our government works.  Sorry, but that's it and your principles allow for it.  You're allowed to elect someone to represent you and I'm allowed to elect someone to represent me.  It's not perfect but it works.  Now tell me how lawless anarchy would work better?

yes, you can elect someone to represent you, but you CANNOT elect someone to do your dirty work for you.  you can not elect someone who imposes their/your will on others without their permission.  and suggesting that someone "just move," is avoiding the injustice.  it's a cop-out on your part. 

[PXaiver]

It is in no way a cop out.  No one is forcing you to live with this so called injustice.  No one is forcing you to stay here.  Most of the rest of us don't mind the way the system works.  You have yet to show how your system of government is better especially in regards to civil, religious, and sexual rights.  Actually your system is built so that racism and discrimination are allowed.

[JL]

It is in no way a cop out.  No one is forcing you to live with this so called injustice.  No one is forcing you to stay here.  Most of the rest of us don't mind the way the system works.  You have yet to show how your system of government is better especially in regards to civil, religious, and sexual rights.  Actually your system is built so that racism and discrimination are allowed.

you're straying from the point and making things up.  a majority of people in germany were ok with the system during hitler's reign.  that does not justify their treatment of jews.  jews had just as much a right to live there without being persecuted.  just as we have a right to live here without being forced to comply with the wishes of the politicians, regardless of who, or how many people support them or helped to elect them.  an injustice is an injustice, and no amount of fancy rhetoric or government propaganda can justify it. 

once again, the burden of proof lies on the person who is attempting to justify the initiation of force against somone, NOT the person who is protesting it.

[PXaiver]

I am in no way, shape, or form making things up.  Your little right of association could very well cause someone to die and you know it.

That being said, what happened to the Jews was wrong but there were people fighting that injustice through action, not inaction. 

Again no one is forcing you to live here.  You choose to live here and you choose whether to obey the laws.  You choose to not start your own country with like minded individuals.  Do you want me to feel sorry for you?  Do you want me to be sad because you and your group lack the courage to do anything but sit and whine about your situation?  Here's an old saying I came across from Zach de la Rocha, "Learn the system then F--- the system.". Well most falls come from within so hop to it skippy.

[JL]

I am in no way, shape, or form making things up.  Your little right of association could very well cause someone to die and you know it.

That being said, what happened to the Jews was wrong but there were people fighting that injustice through action, not inaction. 

Again no one is forcing you to live here.  You choose to live here and you choose whether to obey the laws.  You choose to not start your own country with like minded individuals.  Do you want me to feel sorry for you?  Do you want me to be sad because you and your group lack the courage to do anything but sit and whine about your situation?  Here's an old saying I came across from Zach de la Rocha, "Learn the system then F--- the system.". Well most falls come from within so hop to it skippy.

i have no idea what you're talking about. 

we are all sovereign individuals, regardless of our location on earth, and no one has a right to initiate force against us, period.  forcing someone to either move or follow unjust rules, is an injustice in and of itself.  that is not a solution, it is a symptom of the problem. 

the system will collapse on its own eventually; they all do.  it is my hope that people are well enough informed that they do not repeat the same mistake, and institute governments that operate on the use of force.  that is what compels me to discuss this. 

[PXaiver]

Here's how your little system is discriminatory.  Let's play your game and take a hypothetical situation.

Let's say I'm shot.   The ambulance pulls up, cuts open my shirt to work on me and notices my pentagram tattoo.  None of the workers want to associate with Pagans, and by your rules they don't have to, so they leave me there.  After a little while someone who doesn't mind associating with Pagans takes me to the hospital, but they don't want to associate with me because of my religion.  I'm starting to go into shock, but they still won't take me and they don't have to.

Well the person who took me to the hospital likes me but doesn't like the people in the next town over so they won't drive me there to get checked out.  Even if I find a ride to the next hospital, there's no telling if the doctors at that hospital want to associate with me.  Hence, I end up dying because people don't want to associate with me because of my religion.  Now replace "religion" with "sex", "sexual orientation", "skin color" etc....

How does it feel to belong to a group that harbors racists and bigots?


Oh one other thing for the hypothetical situation, I was shot by a yak that was shooting mind bullets at me from 200 yards away.  Sorry I left that bit of information out.  You may be able to find an answer now.

[Griff]

Here's how your little system is discriminatory.  Let's play your game and take a hypothetical situation.

Let's say I'm shot.   The ambulance pulls up, cuts open my shirt to work on me and notices my pentagram tattoo.  None of the workers want to associate with Pagans, and by your rules they don't have to, so they leave me there.  After a little while someone who doesn't mind associating with Pagans takes me to the hospital, but they don't want to associate with me because of my religion.  I'm starting to go into shock, but they still won't take me and they don't have to.

Well the person who took me to the hospital likes me but doesn't like the people in the next town over so they won't drive me there to get checked out.  Even if I find a ride to the next hospital, there's no telling if the doctors at that hospital want to associate with me.  Hence, I end up dying because people don't want to associate with me because of my religion.  Now replace "religion" with "sex", "sexual orientation", "skin color" etc....

How does it feel to belong to a group that harbors racists and bigots?


Oh one other thing for the hypothetical situation, I was shot by a yak that was shooting mind bullets at me from 200 yards away.  Sorry I left that bit of information out.  You may be able to find an answer now.

Shaggy's hypothetical situation reminds me of the true lesson being taught in parable about the Good Samaritan.

More here:

http://www.gotquestions.org/parable-Good-Samaritan.html

peace