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[The Fuzz]

Humm......not certain what they would want to hear?  I don't suspect there will be a public campaign to raise taxes to support it.  That would most likely only happen after the cuts are made, and after a perceived failure in light of a catastrophe. 

We elect them to make the tough decisions, to operate the city at break even, and not compromise public safety.  They need to make those assessments themselves and make decisions accordingly.  If tax increases to maintain public safety are required, then I expect them to make that evaluation and propose the increases needed to support it.  They may not be popular, but nonetheless that is their job when they took on being elected public servants. 

What are the expecting us to say.....just getter done?

[jbs49238]

For those of you who believe a volunteer department would be better, one thing to consider.   There are a lot of volunteer departments going to career or partial career departments.  This is due to a lack of volunteers or the lack of volunteers during the daytime.   The city I lived in NJ was a combination department.   It worked well at the station that was next to my home.   From 6 AM to 6 PM Monday thru Friday the station was manned by career FFs, 6pm to 6am and on Saturday and Sunday Volunteers manned the station.   I can not see the City of Monroe getting enough volunteers to run a full volunteer department, especially considering employers not like having employees run off to fires and more people going out of town to work.  This is just some observations from a former Monroe resident who has traveled the country and seen different things.  Though I do believe cutting any public safety should be a LAST resort.

Name me a department around this area that is making the transition from POC to full time.... I'll put in an application.  So will the folks I know that USED to be FT FF's that now work as POC, some for 2 different departments.

As populations and tax base fall, so should the level of expected services.  The problem is you have a department that really needs to have FT EMS personel and not FT FF's.  The fire service call volume does not suggest the need for a FT fire department of 19 FF's.  Sometimes you have to read the writing on the wall instead of just see it.

What the City of Monroe does have is a need for a FT EMS service (i.e. 2 ambulances brining in transport revenue).  So maybe that should be your jumping off point.  just looking at the data and pointing out what appears to be pretty obvious information.

[Baby Hitler]

Isn't it more profitable to collect the taxes for 2 Firehouses, but provide no services?

[jbs49238]

Isn't it more profitable to collect the taxes for 2 Firehouses, but provide no services?

That would probably be maximize profits... yes!

[Sockey]

I don't think the issue is about profits but about what level of service is needed for a City the size of Monroe to have for fire protection and EMS response.  We tend to get caught up on the Career / POC / Volunteer issue. 

[jbs49238]

I don't think the issue is about profits but about what level of service is needed for a City the size of Monroe to have for fire protection and EMS response.  We tend to get caught up on the Career / POC / Volunteer issue. 

If the focus was on EMS, which by your own statistics is the bulk of your calls, and money can be earned through transport to offset or supplement the budget then you would probably not be worried about cuts in the FD.

But since it seems you want to focus on firefighting you are gonna lose.

Your own statistics bear out the level of service the City of Monroe needs.  Monroe Fire does not even run 2 fire related calls a day (529 total - those are by your numbers not mine) so you tell me as a fire service professional... what level of FIRE protection does the City of Monroe need?  Especially given the fact the if you utilize mutual aid you have all the help you could possibly want just to your north and to your south.

I told someone else... when you have a business and the demand for your business drops and the amount of funds available to run your business decreases you have to make a choice... scale back the scope of your business or change the focus of your business to justify the investment.

[The Fuzz]

Personally, I find it hard to find jbs's logic failed on the business end of the rationale in light of the fire run numbers. 

What would the city find objectionable to about the added revenue in jbs's business model?  If I am reading it right, it appears to be a way for the FF to save jobs.

[Sockey]

jbs49238: 

I never said I wanted to focus on fire incidents but the question that needs to be answered here is what level of protection (personnel) is needed for the City.  The proposed budget has EMS transport removed, thus eliminating the revenue for this service which in turn causes a strain on the rest of the budget. 

[jbs49238]

jbs49238: 

I never said I wanted to focus on fire incidents but the question that needs to be answered here is what level of protection (personnel) is needed for the City.  The proposed budget has EMS transport removed, thus eliminating the revenue for this service which in turn causes a strain on the rest of the budget. 

Why would the City want to eliminate transport?

Focus on stopping EMS cuts and you will be focusing on saving your jobs!  That is the point I am making to you.  529 Fire calls inj a year does not suggest the need for a FT FD sockey.  You are not going to find a lot of people here that will disagree with me on that.

If you guys allow transport to get away from you for the sake of saving positions, you can just pack it in my friend, you will be down to nothing in no time flat.

I already told you the solution, sever the EMS from the Fire, that is the only way to save your jobs, unless of course you don't want to do EMS... if thats the case then I would be thinking about putting applications in with BIG cities that actually need FT Fire Departments.

You need to ask yourself why you have a FT FD now as it is.  The answer is because you run a TON of EMS calls.

[rands]

Here is another thought, with the closing of both the east and west side stations and the downsizing of firefighters, how long until your insurance rates increase? All of this will affect the ISO rating for everybody in the city, from business owners to home owners.  The way I see it, who would you rather give your money to , the fire department (who buys food and supplies locally) or your insurance company (they can give themselves bigger bonuses)?

On another subject about mutual aid. Yes the city can call for mutual aid from other departments (mostly Monroe Twp or Frenchtown). But what happens when your mutual aid departments are already on a call and cannot supply you with help? The answer is to call departments that are farther away. The problem with this is longer respose times from those departments, which will result in greater fire damage and fire loss.  Both of the mutual aid departments have staffing issues, this is a problem found all across the nation.  With the demands that are placed on firefighters for their training and the calls that they respond to, many cannot give that kind of dedication. They have their work and family life which should come first.  No longer is it just put water on the fire and put it out, now a days you have all of these synthetics that burn faster and give off even deadlier gasses.  If the cities intent is to supplement their department by using other departments and having them flipping the bill for their manpower, then they should think again.  There is no law that states that any fire department has to provide mutual aid to another department.  Departments have refused to give mutual aid here in Michigan.

The other reason the their have been fewer fires in the city is because of code enforcement and FIRE PREVENTION (which will also be lost).

One last thing, when it is well known how much a department is down sized (doesn't matter what type of department) arson usually goes up. Because they know of the slower response time they will get. With the economy the way it is, people will burn their homes instead of letting the bank get it.

[The Fuzz]

Scare tactic!

[Collegekid]

Scare tactic!

Ya think? Seems to be the only thing some people are able to employ.

[JMO]

With the economy the way it is, people will burn their homes instead of letting the bank get it.

are you promoting this? i hope you are not a firebug firefighter.

[Professor H]

Why would the City want to eliminate transport?

Focus on stopping EMS cuts and you will be focusing on saving your jobs!  That is the point I am making to you.  529 Fire calls inj a year does not suggest the need for a FT FD sockey.  You are not going to find a lot of people here that will disagree with me on that.

If you guys allow transport to get away from you for the sake of saving positions, you can just pack it in my friend, you will be down to nothing in no time flat.

I already told you the solution, sever the EMS from the Fire, that is the only way to save your jobs, unless of course you don't want to do EMS... if thats the case then I would be thinking about putting applications in with BIG cities that actually need FT Fire Departments.

You need to ask yourself why you have a FT FD now as it is.  The answer is because you run a TON of EMS calls.

You're trying to relate the point that there are more EMS calls, but in separating the service from the fire department, you eliminate the dual role service paid for with one budget. 

Still don't see why people don't want the 400K that will offset the costs of maintaining the department.  If you want to donate the money back to private industry at the expense of public safety, then that is your opinion.   That money is being paid either way - so the choice is support public safety with it or give it away without any benefits to the taxpayers.

Saying there are only 17 serious structure fires so eliminate fire services is like saying the Sheriff should take over the City Police, after all how many murders or serious crimes were there?   3 Contract cars would cost a lot less.

[jbs49238]

are you promoting this? i hope you are not a firebug firefighter.

Here is another thought, with the closing of both the east and west side stations and the downsizing of firefighters, how long until your insurance rates increase? All of this will affect the ISO rating for everybody in the city, from business owners to home owners.  The way I see it, who would you rather give your money to , the fire department (who buys food and supplies locally) or your insurance company (they can give themselves bigger bonuses)?

On another subject about mutual aid. Yes the city can call for mutual aid from other departments (mostly Monroe Twp or Frenchtown). But what happens when your mutual aid departments are already on a call and cannot supply you with help? The answer is to call departments that are farther away. The problem with this is longer respose times from those departments, which will result in greater fire damage and fire loss.  Both of the mutual aid departments have staffing issues, this is a problem found all across the nation.  With the demands that are placed on firefighters for their training and the calls that they respond to, many cannot give that kind of dedication. They have their work and family life which should come first.  No longer is it just put water on the fire and put it out, now a days you have all of these synthetics that burn faster and give off even deadlier gasses.  If the cities intent is to supplement their department by using other departments and having them flipping the bill for their manpower, then they should think again.  There is no law that states that any fire department has to provide mutual aid to another department.  Departments have refused to give mutual aid here in Michigan.

The other reason the their have been fewer fires in the city is because of code enforcement and FIRE PREVENTION (which will also be lost).

One last thing, when it is well known how much a department is down sized (doesn't matter what type of department) arson usually goes up. Because they know of the slower response time they will get. With the economy the way it is, people will burn their homes instead of letting the bank get it.

Since the insurance is based on proximity of your home to your municipalities CENTRAL FD there should be no increase in premiums.  The East and West stations were supllemtary to the Central Station, no structure fire could be put out solely by either of those stations.

If people aren't burning their houses now, they are not going to start because there is 1 or 2 fewer firefighters.

What if.... What if....

What if your engine doesn't start tommorow or the next day when you dropped for a house fire... could happen, better get a millage for 4 brand new engines to keep those possibilities from becoming a reality.

Why would there be less code enforcement, is this not a command responsibility? 

Please just continue to ignore your own numbers, and fight for something that the data deems not necessary.  The public loves firefighters, they are hero in many people eyes, what the public will not stand for though is paying for something they don't have to have.  You could pull off your argument if it was using EMS, but not with Fire... less than 2 fire related calls a day?  How much FT staffing is needed to cover that volume?