MonroeTalks.com > Categories > Religion & Philosophy > " Heaven, The Ultimate Welfare State. " Courtesy of Boater


Pages: 1 [2]   Go Down

Author Topic: " Heaven, The Ultimate Welfare State. " Courtesy of Boater  (Read 2395 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

SPOOKYTOOTH

  • Guest
Re: " Heaven, The Ultimate Welfare State. " Courtesy of Boater
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2010, 02:48:25 AM »

Look, nobody knows what Heaven is like Some, like you, say it's all harps and hymns, like you saw in a cartoon, while others, like me, say we don't know, but it's gotta be better than the harshness and sufferings on earth, not to mention the decided unpleasantness with which we commonly associate Hell. I've read the book of Revelations, as I'm sure you have, but even the Bible says Revelations is for the most part symbolism, and bizarre symbolism at that. I'm perfectly content to admit I do not know, can not know, the nature of Heaven, or in what form I may be should I get there. Nevertheless, I have faith that Heaven is the better choice of the two, and I am quite confident that I will not regret feeling as such.   

I am curious Simpleman; if it were not meant for you to know, what would be the purpose of the Bible or Christ in the first place?

The Bible interprets itself, if one has the interest and curiosity to search for the answers within it instead of seeking those answers of men; allow he who authored it explain it.

For instance.... what is the Holy mountain of God and why does it descend to earth if heaven be out there, for that matter; if heaven be out there.... why  would Christ bother to come HERE, TWICE?

....and why is this first earth done away with and a new earth formed.....why form a new earth at all......if ITS all...out there?

Answer yourself these questions out of your own Bible...
Logged

SimpleMan

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1516
Re: " Heaven, The Ultimate Welfare State. " Courtesy of Boater
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2010, 03:25:15 PM »

I am curious Simpleman; if it were not meant for you to know, what would be the purpose of the Bible or Christ in the first place?

The Bible interprets itself, if one has the interest and curiosity to search for the answers within it instead of seeking those answers of men; allow he who authored it explain it.

For instance.... what is the Holy mountain of God and why does it descend to earth if heaven be out there, for that matter; if heaven be out there.... why  would Christ bother to come HERE, TWICE?

....and why is this first earth done away with and a new earth formed.....why form a new earth at all......if ITS all...out there?

Answer yourself these questions out of your own Bible...


Well, what I said about the Book of Revelations being largely symbolism IS from my Bible; It's in the notations in the preface and in the text itself.

I do read the little footnotes and explanations along with the text, so I can better understand it. I have not read so far anywhere where the Bible explains exactly what Heaven is; I've read references to it, and things about it, but the actual nature of Heaven, aside from the description of the New Jeruselam in Revelations, I have not so far seen. I do not think Heaven is a physical place, up in a cloud somewhere, but rather it is on some sort of meta-physical plane that cannot truly be understood. 
Logged

werewolfetiquette

  • Super Talker
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 165
Re: " Heaven, The Ultimate Welfare State. " Courtesy of Boater
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2010, 01:28:39 PM »

Ahhhh Eden that's a nice idea.  A jealous God doesn't want his creations to gain knowledge of any kind beyond what he wants them to know.  And then punishes them for the pursuit of said knowledge.  That sounds just like the guy I want to follow...

The essence of Christianity is told to us in the Garden of Eden history. The fruit that was forbidden was on the Tree of Knowledge. The subtext is, All the suffering you have is because you wanted to find out what was going on. You could be in the Garden of Eden if you had just kept your [f-ing] mouth shut and hadn't asked any questions.
Frank Zappa--1993
Logged
"We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane"
- Kilgore Trout (1907-?)

Baby Hitler

  • Guest
Re: " Heaven, The Ultimate Welfare State. " Courtesy of Boater
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2010, 01:53:16 PM »

I see the garden of Eden and the fruit of knowledge as the "gift" of worry.

Prior to that, man had no worries. Everything was provided for him.

After taking the "fruit of knowledge" he began to worry. "What will happen when God finds out? What will happen to us?"

Before there were no questions, nothing to worry about.

Be eating the fruit, he "learned" the lesson of disobedience.
Logged

PXaiver

  • Guest
Re: " Heaven, The Ultimate Welfare State. " Courtesy of Boater
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2010, 02:00:05 PM »

I see the garden of Eden and the fruit of knowledge as the "gift" of worry.

Prior to that, man had no worries. Everything was provided for him.

After taking the "fruit of knowledge" he began to worry. "What will happen when God finds out? What will happen to us?"

Before there were no questions, nothing to worry about.

Be eating the fruit, he "learned" the lesson of disobedience.

Interesting thought.  I think I like it.
Logged

boater

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 821
Re: " Heaven, The Ultimate Welfare State. " Courtesy of Boater
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2010, 04:53:37 PM »

I see the garden of Eden and the fruit of knowledge as the "gift" of worry.

Prior to that, man had no worries. Everything was provided for him.

After taking the "fruit of knowledge" he began to worry. "What will happen when God finds out? What will happen to us?"

Before there were no questions, nothing to worry about.

Be eating the fruit, he "learned" the lesson of disobedience.

Thats it!! The devil is a neo con (and vice versa)!! He can't stand somebody getting something for nothing!! He lied about the apple so Adam & Eve would suffer!! Nothing has changed in 2000 years!!
Logged
Heaven, the ultimate welfare state.

SimpleMan

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1516
Re: " Heaven, The Ultimate Welfare State. " Courtesy of Boater
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2010, 11:59:14 PM »

I see the garden of Eden and the fruit of knowledge as the "gift" of worry.

Prior to that, man had no worries. Everything was provided for him.

After taking the "fruit of knowledge" he began to worry. "What will happen when God finds out? What will happen to us?"

Before there were no questions, nothing to worry about.

Be eating the fruit, he "learned" the lesson of disobedience.

I like this. Christ rebuked His disciples for not allowing the children to come to him, saying "Only those who accept the Word as children will enter the kingdom of God". When we are children, we don't worry, but as we grow older, we learn more, we gain more wisdom, and thus more cause for anguish and worry.

This is why I disagree with those who attempt to explain or rationalize Scripture. Accept it as it is, and any questions you have about it will be answered in due time.   
Logged

SPOOKYTOOTH

  • Guest
Re: " Heaven, The Ultimate Welfare State. " Courtesy of Boater
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2010, 02:42:54 AM »

I like this. Christ rebuked His disciples for not allowing the children to come to him, saying "Only those who accept the Word as children will enter the kingdom of God". When we are children, we don't worry, but as we grow older, we learn more, we gain more wisdom, and thus more cause for anguish and worry.

This is why I disagree with those who attempt to explain or rationalize Scripture.

THIS::

Accept it as it is,

and THIS::

and any questions you have about it will be answered in due time.

are contradictory to each other


and I wonder, ... how long until this due time  arrives...as the prophecies are being fulfilled all round us now...


So in accepting it as it is we should be lookin for actual many headed monsters to be rising out of the land and sea...then hoping for and explanation of what they are.... 8*

whatever.... 8*
Logged

PXaiver

  • Guest
Re: " Heaven, The Ultimate Welfare State. " Courtesy of Boater
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2010, 09:39:18 AM »

If that happens Spooky I'm not worried.  We're on good terms with the Japanese so I'm sure they'll let is borrow Godzilla.
Logged

Baby Hitler

  • Guest
Re: " Heaven, The Ultimate Welfare State. " Courtesy of Boater
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2010, 01:54:21 PM »

and I wonder, ... how long until this due time  arrives...as the prophecies are being fulfilled all round us now...


So in accepting it as it is we should be lookin for actual many headed monsters to be rising out of the land and sea...then hoping for and explanation of what they are.... 8*

whatever.... 8*

Far be it from me to dispute your obvious greater knowledge of all things. 8*
Logged

SimpleMan

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1516
Re: " Heaven, The Ultimate Welfare State. " Courtesy of Boater
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2010, 05:48:21 PM »

and I wonder, ... how long until this due time  arrives...as the prophecies are being fulfilled all round us now...


So in accepting it as it is we should be lookin for actual many headed monsters to be rising out of the land and sea...then hoping for and explanation of what they are.... 8*

whatever.... 8*


Spooky,

All that many headed beast stuff is symbolism, it says so right in the preface and throughout Revelations. When I said "accept it as it is" and then "any questions you have will be answered in due time", I did NOT contradict myself. I liken it to being a child, and accepting what my parents say without knowing why they say it, and then growing older and learning why.

We have the Word of the Lord...We can accept it but still wonder about why this passage says this or that, without contradicting ourselves. Many Bible scholars would no doubt scoff at your idea that having questions about Scripture and believing in it are contradictory. 
Logged

Baby Hitler

  • Guest
Re: " Heaven, The Ultimate Welfare State. " Courtesy of Boater
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2010, 06:04:32 PM »

Spooky,

All that many headed beast stuff is symbolism, it says so right in the preface and throughout Revelations. When I said "accept it as it is" and then "any questions you have will be answered in due time", I did NOT contradict myself. I liken it to being a child, and accepting what my parents say without knowing why they say it, and then growing older and learning why.

We have the Word of the Lord...We can accept it but still wonder about why this passage says this or that, without contradicting ourselves. Many Bible scholars would no doubt scoff at your idea that having questions about Scripture and believing in it are contradictory. 

Well obviously they don't know what they are talking about. All they have to do is ask Spooky, and he'll tell them what's what.
Logged

SimpleMan

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1516
Re: " Heaven, The Ultimate Welfare State. " Courtesy of Boater
« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2010, 12:02:31 AM »

Well obviously they don't know what they are talking about. All they have to do is ask Spooky, and he'll tell them what's what.

Great, FB, now you've done it. Spooky's gonna come back and post another multi-paragraph response of which I understand MAYBE 10%, and that's if I'm drinking.  8*
Logged

SPOOKYTOOTH

  • Guest
Re: " Heaven, The Ultimate Welfare State. " Courtesy of Boater
« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2010, 02:05:20 AM »

Spooky,

All that many headed beast stuff is symbolism,

Ahh shucks Simple... you had to go and ruin my whole future....  here I been thinkin I was gonna get ta see an actual live SEA MONSTER !


                                             :o :'(


 it says so right in the preface and throughout Revelations. When I said "accept it as it is" and then "any questions you have will be answered in due time", I did NOT contradict myself. I liken it to being a child, and accepting what my parents say without knowing why they say it, and then growing older and learning why.

God states it is sealed unto the time of the end....very definite time period, and he's pretty clear on defining the scenery, he even says that those who become as little children can understand it.... but  you  say one has to be grown up (mature) to do so....   tell me, do you believe in ghosts; demons, and flying machines ? Or are you too mature for such things? 

We have the Word of the Lord...We can accept it but still wonder about why this passage says this or that, without contradicting ourselves.

There's a difference between wondering and speculating. One implies there is no definition or known answer to a thing; the other is / deductions based on available and known information. 

The wondering part is not necessary as the Bible defines itself. The speculating is encouraged as a means by which one learns new information.


 Many Bible scholars would no doubt scoff at your idea that having questions about Scripture and believing in it are contradictory.

....go back and read what I posted again, you mis understood what I said.

As for Bible scholars.....  most are a bunch of self important poppycocks who simply reiterate what someone else has stated before...lest they risk loosing the AWE and ADMIRATION of their fellow men of the cloth...   note that I didn't say what cloth.

I once met a MINISTER of ..."TWENTY YEARS STUDY" of the scriptures...  dumbnut had no clue that Christ said the only sign of his being whom he claimed to be would be that of Jonas....  I showed him the words right in his own Bible and the fruit loop reared back squawkin that I was possessed of the devil....  never mind the fact that the words were right there in front of him for TWENTY YEARS.... and he never read em.

So don't bother me with the shock and awe of "Bible scholars / Ministers"   you'll have to do better than that to amaze me. 
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Up