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[Frenchfry]

Tax The Rich or Cut Food Stamps?
"These cuts would be catastrophic for vulnerable older adults and their families," said NCOA President & CEO Jim Firman. "93% of SNAP benefits go to households below the poverty line, and 76% of SNAP households include an elderly person, child, or disabled person. Taking food out of the mouths of people living at or near the poverty level is unconscionable act, especially when the unemployment rate is so high."
Tax The Rich or Cut Food Stamps?

[ducksoup]

I am personally not sure how "to get people off the dole", and I don't think many people are entirely sure how to do that currently.

With that said I would like to see reform of the social safety net to eliminate the fraud in the programs. They are necessary programs, and should not be cut from people who need them, but there is fraud, even if minor, in many of programs.

I would also like to see the DoD budget slashed and continue to decrease it until they can finally become an auditable entity, and even when that happens they should not receive nearly as much funds as they do. I believe they are one of the few, maybe only, government entities that is not auditable, so we have no idea where the money is actually going there.

Also I would like to see a lot of changes to the US tax code, possibly another tax reform act, since the last one was in 1986. Which with the vast changes we have had from a technological standpoint since then makes it seem like a much longer time ago.

Simple.  When they get caught, just elect them Governor.

"In 1997, Rick Scott was implicated in the biggest Medicare fraud case in US history, stepping down as CEO of Columbia/HCA after the hospital giant was fined $1.7 billion and found guilty of swindling the government. As Florida's new governor, Scott is now trying to kill off an anti-fraud database that would track the fraudulent distribution of addictive prescription drugs in Florida, over the protestations of law enforcement officials, Republican state lawmakers, and federal drug policy officials.
 
Without consulting state lawmakers, Scott snuck a repeal of the database in his budget this year, despite the fact that it will cost Florida no money. (It's funded by federal money and private donations.)"
http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2011/03/rick-scott-floridas-drug-fraud-enabler

[ducksoup]

Yes, because we all know that those that can't afford medical care deserve to die quicker and relieve those at the top from paying taxes or wages they could have lived on or paid their own insurance.

[SMASH]

Yes, because we all know that those that can't afford medical care deserve to die quicker and relieve those at the top from paying taxes or wages they could have lived on or paid their own insurance.

Yep, ObamaCare in a nut shell.
Nice job, you nailed it.

[John Kopke]

As a Tea Party type Conservative it is such a joy to exchange ideas with the Progressives in the forum. If I say the country can’t afford to have so many people on the dole they say this means I support leaving autistic children on the street to fend for themselves.

Now if the  MSM were to weigh in on the argument they would approach it from the angle that I, the radical one, need to refute the allegation that I support leaving autistic children on the street to fend for themselves.

Have to answer my own post because it must have gone over my liberal friends head. Point is a conservative can't even mention getting a handle on a welfare state bankrupting the country because the  libs will immediately make an outrageous claim, like letting the autistic fend for themselves, to make the case that the conservative is a heartless, greedy, SOB. Demonize and villify. Do the sane people in the forum really think this is what we mean?

I wonder what the libs think is going to happen when we turn into Greece?

   

[sammy]

Have to answer my own post because it must have gone over my liberal friends head. Point is a conservative can't even mention getting a handle on a welfare state bankrupting the country because the  libs will immediately make an outrageous claim, like letting the autistic fend for themselves, to make the case that the conservative is a heartless, greedy, SOB. Demonize and villify. Do the sane people in the forum really think this is what we mean?

I wonder what the libs think is going to happen when we turn into Greece?

   

So, before we turn into grease, what is your solution? Be specific, no generalities. How much cuts, where? I know your solutions include cuts, so please be specific.

[313girl]

The non-partisan Center on Budget and Policy Priorities has estimated that only 5% of our federal budget dollars goes toward "welfare" (article below). And if that is the case John, it doesn't appear that the welfare state is "bankrupting the country" as you assert.

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/02/how-much-do-we-spend-nonworking-poor

I'm sure there is fraud and abuse within the system, after all the recipients are human and fallible. As there is no doubt fraud and abuse in every federal and state program. The article cited below states that abuse at gambling casino's in California alone amounted to 1.8 million welfare dollars.
 
But like I said, there is fraud and abuse everywhere in the system, the difference between rooting the bad from the welfare system is that it could inadvertently hurt innocent people such as children, the elderly, and the disabled with real dire consequences up to and potentially, death. Whereas, rooting out fraud in say, the defense department, the most dire consequence potential is jail time. Which is the reason we must tread with care when attempting to fix the system. The first thing, in MHO, is not to label the recipients in a negative way, because every group of humans has bad apples.


There are also been a ton of reforms from the state level (MI recent 48 month cut off) to the federal level being implemented right now:

http://www.sooeveningnews.com/newsnow/x329771370/New-welfare-restrictions-target-booze-tattoos

"The movement has been spurred in part by Congress. Under legislation signed by President Barack Obama in February to extend a payroll tax cut and unemployment benefits, welfare recipients are barred from using their cash assistance in strip clubs, casinos and liquor stores. States must change their own laws to conform by 2014."

[John Kopke]

So, before we turn into grease, what is your solution? Be specific, no generalities. How much cuts, where? I know your solutions include cuts, so please be specific.

Well unemployment benefits go back to 26 weeks versus 99 weeks. Take a hard look at SSI program. Clearly turning into a huge boondoggle. Re-instate Clinton
welfare works rules Obama just gutted. Food stamps. Obama running ads promoting the program. I could go on and on, but what I come up with doesn't really matter to you. You think if Obama raises taxes on the wealthy by $ 80 billion a year it will solve our trillion plus yearly deficits, provide the revenue to fund infrastructure improvements, and fund green energy projects. Hard to argue with someone who has such contempt for common sense. 

[313girl]

Isn't unemployment benefits insurance, not welfare (or "the dole")?

[sammy]

The non-partisan Center on Budget and Policy Priorities has estimated that only 5% of our federal budget dollars goes toward "welfare" (article below). And if that is the case John, it doesn't appear that the welfare state is "bankrupting the country" as you assert.

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/02/how-much-do-we-spend-nonworking-poor

I'm sure there is fraud and abuse within the system, after all the recipients are human and fallible. As there is no doubt fraud and abuse in every federal and state program. The article cited below states that abuse at gambling casino's in California alone amounted to 1.8 million welfare dollars.
 
But like I said, there is fraud and abuse everywhere in the system, the difference between rooting the bad from the welfare system is that it could inadvertently hurt innocent people such as children, the elderly, and the disabled with real dire consequences up to and potentially, death. Whereas, rooting out fraud in say, the defense department, the most dire consequence potential is jail time. Which is the reason we must tread with care when attempting to fix the system. The first thing, in MHO, is not to label the recipients in a negative way, because every group of humans has bad apples.


There are also been a ton of reforms from the state level (MI recent 48 month cut off) to the federal level being implemented right now:

http://www.sooeveningnews.com/newsnow/x329771370/New-welfare-restrictions-target-booze-tattoos

"The movement has been spurred in part by Congress. Under legislation signed by President Barack Obama in February to extend a payroll tax cut and unemployment benefits, welfare recipients are barred from using their cash assistance in strip clubs, casinos and liquor stores. States must change their own laws to conform by 2014."

So, rooting out welfare fraud does not rate very high on your scale? Ya don't really care?

[313girl]

No, I care very much and that isn't what I said at all. I just think that when doing so, we must do it carefully. To make cuts arbitrarily could really have life or death consequences for people. I could ask you the same thing, don't you care about PEOPLE, or just money? They're both stupid questions.

[sammy]

Well unemployment benefits go back to 26 weeks versus 99 weeks. Take a hard look at SSI program. Clearly turning into a huge boondoggle. Re-instate Clinton
welfare works rules Obama just gutted. Food stamps. Obama running ads promoting the program. I could go on and on, but what I come up with doesn't really matter to you. You think if Obama raises taxes on the wealthy by $ 80 billion a year it will solve our trillion plus yearly deficits, provide the revenue to fund infrastructure improvements, and fund green energy projects. Hard to argue with someone who has such contempt for common sense. 

Wow, one specific plus a lot of generalities. IF you were magically elected President, how would you, specifically, make us magically whole again? Bet you have no plan. You are only AGAINST what is . Please, and be specific, how will you , assuming  we elect you  President, lead us us out of the mire in which we find ourselves?

[John Kopke]

So, rooting out welfare fraud does not rate very high on your scale? Ya don't really care?

Sammy:
Pretty damn weak response. I told you I could go on and on. You were the one challenging me to mention some specific cuts. Now your tune is I didn't mention enough? Priceless.   

[sammy]

No, I care very much and that isn't what I said at all. I just think that when doing so, we must do it carefully. To make cuts arbitrarily could really have life or death consequences for people. I could ask you the same thing, don't you care about PEOPLE, or just money? They're both stupid questions.

Yep, I care very much about people. On the other hand, I know personally about a family that had welfare buy them a trailer, and put it on property purchased by welfare, and in the last 30 years, Daddy has not worked, various children have had various children , and they all still suck off the welfare teat. Why on earth  should I still be supporting them?!

[John Kopke]

Wow, one specific plus a lot of generalities. IF you were magically elected President, how would you, specifically, make us magically whole again? Bet you have no plan. You are only AGAINST what is . Please, and be specific, how will you , assuming  we elect you  President, lead us us out of the mire in which we find ourselves?

Well seems to me it is pretty futile trying to make a case for another course.
I'm against the path Obama has us on and you are for it. Maybe you should explain why we should follow the path Obama has charted for us.