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Monroe Native

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Re: We're All But Done
« Reply #1605 on: January 16, 2013, 11:40:22 AM »

Gov. Romney's assessment, IMO, was wrong.  I say that because it implies that people are not able to be educated. 

If Gov. Romney felt this way and apparently he did, he should have communicated the reasons why such governmental spending was not only wrong but could cause increased economical pressure on the US (downgrades and such).

His assessment is in line with yours.

The education you would have to do for the people is why hard work is better then entitlements, and why entitlements have to be taken away.

How do you convince people hard work is better then handouts, and vote for me even though I am going to make things harder for you?

Tough sell.  Vote for Obama.  Romney only cares about rich people.

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I have learned that only two things are necessary to keep one's wife happy. First, let her think she's having her own way. And second, let her have it.
Lyndon B. Johnson

You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered.
Lyndon B. Johnson

John Kopke

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Re: We're All But Done
« Reply #1606 on: January 16, 2013, 08:55:14 PM »

Well SS & Medicare are getting to the point where the generations are going to be fighting each other. Maybe they already are, right MN?  And the politician’s. The frigging weasels. They will continue to campaign on basis that they are the one the folks can count on  protect their SS and Medicare.

So here we are. Younger folks are getting hosed, and it will get worse, a lot worse.  And they are going to be less and less happy about it. Seasoned citizens on the other hand were “promised“ SS and Medicare in return for paying into these systems for 40 years. They earned it! And more importantly, they planned on it.

What to do? It’s simple. Tell the truth. Seasoned citizens you have been lied to for 40 years.  Cuts have to be made and you‘re gonna feel it. Younger folks you are still going to get hosed, but it won‘t be quite as bad as it might have been. The good news is you have time to  prepare yourself.  It will mean you will have to work longer and harder, but you have no other choice.

Or we can continue down the current path of delusion and we’ll all go down the toilet together.
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John Kopke

Monroe Native

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Re: We're All But Done
« Reply #1607 on: January 16, 2013, 09:09:49 PM »

Well SS & Medicare are getting to the point where the generations are going to be fighting each other. Maybe they already are, right MN?  And the politician's. The frigging weasels. They will continue to campaign on basis that they are the one the folks can count on  protect their SS and Medicare.

So here we are. Younger folks are getting hosed, and it will get worse, a lot worse.  And they are going to be less and less happy about it. Seasoned citizens on the other hand were promised SS and Medicare in return for paying into these systems for 40 years. They earned it! And more importantly, they planned on it.

What to do? It’s simple. Tell the truth. Seasoned citizens you have been lied to for 40 years.  Cuts have to be made and you're gonna feel it. Younger folks you are still going to get hosed, but it won't be quite as bad as it might have been. The good news is you have time to  prepare yourself.  It will mean you will have to work longer and harder, but you have no other choice.

Or we can continue down the current path of delusion and we'll all go down the toilet together.

I totally agree with you.

I am not planning on either medicare or social security to retire.

The issue I see is many didn't count on those to supplement retirement - the totally depended on their Pension Plan, Social Security, and Medicare for their retirement.  They based all of their future security on promises that others made to them, and I'm afraid that many are going to pay a price for that.

What I am afraid of even though I am not counting on any of that - all my savings are not going to grow the way they should or they will be wiped out due to decisions made by my government.

Basically not only will my government screw over all the people that believed their lies - but all the people who did the right thing will be pulled down with them.

It is a very sad situation.  This is what happens when 50 years of entitlements becomes en grained in a society, and all our leaders are afraid to tell the truth that it was what amounts to an illegal pyramid scheme.
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I have learned that only two things are necessary to keep one's wife happy. First, let her think she's having her own way. And second, let her have it.
Lyndon B. Johnson

You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered.
Lyndon B. Johnson

John Kopke

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Re: We're All But Done
« Reply #1608 on: January 16, 2013, 10:15:45 PM »

Here is a thought that follows along with my tinfoil hat thinking. I think over the next 5 years there are going to be a whole lot of people in their peak earning years real disappointed. They not only won't have improved their finances near where they thought they would, they went backwards.
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John Kopke

SidecarFlip

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Re: We're All But Done
« Reply #1609 on: January 16, 2013, 11:58:07 PM »

John:

I believe we took a step backwards from the brink today.  Obama came to realization that he isn't a god and whatever he does isn't pre-ordained and all good and wonderful.  I believe he had a wake up call.  I also believe he's still full of hiself and needs watched closely for other foolish manuvers.  Bernacke and Geithner need short leashes as well.
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SidecarFlip

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Re: We're All But Done
« Reply #1610 on: January 17, 2013, 12:10:18 AM »

I totally agree with you.

I am not planning on either medicare or social security to retire.

The issue I see is many didn't count on those to supplement retirement - the totally depended on their Pension Plan, Social Security, and Medicare for their retirement.  They based all of their future security on promises that others made to them, and I'm afraid that many are going to pay a price for that.

What I am afraid of even though I am not counting on any of that - all my savings are not going to grow the way they should or they will be wiped out due to decisions made by my government.

Basically not only will my government screw over all the people that believed their lies - but all the people who did the right thing will be pulled down with them.

It is a very sad situation.  This is what happens when 50 years of entitlements becomes en grained in a society, and all our leaders are afraid to tell the truth that it was what amounts to an illegal pyramid scheme.

I never did.  In fact, I based my retirement on privately held funds invested in good yielding securities and it has paid off.  I'm SS eligible but I've never applied and I don't plan on it until I'm 66 or better.  But then I still work almost every day, everyday if you factor in my business plus my employment.  I still pay SS withholding btw.  I have my 40 quarters and guess what, I want my money at some point.  Not just now.

People that base their retirement solely on SS live in a glass house with no floor.  Those are the folks that are eating dog food and sleeping next to an electric heater because their gas was turned off for non-payment.  Thats not me, never will be.

Me, I'm about crusing in a Caddilac, riding motorcycles, raising hell and shooting expensive guns on expensive hunting trips because, guess what, you can't take it with you and there is no point in leaving it to the government or your relatives to fight over.  I want to die peniless and I'm doing a good job at it.  I've become a professional spender....I'm all bout living comfortably.  It's nice....

However, I will not leave one cent to the entitlement crowd.  I worked for it, unlike them and I'll spend my own, not someone else's.  Those people can KMA. ;D
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Monroe Native

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Re: We're All But Done
« Reply #1611 on: January 18, 2013, 11:39:09 AM »

Here is a thought that follows along with my tinfoil hat thinking. I think over the next 5 years there are going to be a whole lot of people in their peak earning years real disappointed. They not only won't have improved their finances near where they thought they would, they went backwards.

John - You just described the last 5 years, and I don't think the next five look any better.
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I have learned that only two things are necessary to keep one's wife happy. First, let her think she's having her own way. And second, let her have it.
Lyndon B. Johnson

You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered.
Lyndon B. Johnson

John Kopke

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Re: We're All But Done
« Reply #1612 on: January 20, 2013, 07:38:32 PM »

Merit doesn’t matter any more, it is passe, it isn’t fair. Yet what is unfair about the guy that took the overtime whenever he could get it having a boat much nicer  (and probably better kept up) than the guy who turned down the overtime? The young plumber who planned to have his own business and saved his money, while his fellow young plumber buddies were buying new cars and having a good time. Ten or fifteen years later his buddies are still herding turds for $ 65K per year while the plumber with a plan is directing his own successful plumbing business making 5 times as much.

In Obama World we need to take a hard look at these people who are getting ahead. They clearly must be doing something suspicious. At a minimum, they need to pay more in taxes because it is only fair. 
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John Kopke

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Re: We're All But Done
« Reply #1613 on: January 20, 2013, 07:57:06 PM »

Obama is the 'Robin Hood' of the 21st Century...

Take from the rich and give to the poor.....

Actually, take from the rich who earned it and give to the poor entitlement people and along the way, slide out some for yourself....

The Muslim is a quick learner.
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John Kopke

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Re: We're All But Done
« Reply #1614 on: January 24, 2013, 09:20:13 PM »

I don’t understand UAW members voting Dem.  Oh, I understand you think Obama has your back, just like you think John Dingell has had your back for over 50 years.  But in the 1980’s there was well over a million of you. Now less than 400K. What is happening? You dues have provided these guys with millions and millions of dollars in campaign funds over the years. And then the hours you volunteered for their campaigns. Yet the million or so past UAW members, who lost their jobs, also forked over millions and volunteered for their campaigns. What about them? What did the dues/campaign funds and volunteer work get them?

Here is what I think is a big part of the problem is. Big government, lead by your hero’s, suck the private sector dry. Big government needs the revenues. They impede private sector growth with regulations, taxes and mandates. Then the weak private sector isn’t in a position to buy new cars. A few thousand more UAW members lose their jobs.
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John Kopke

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Re: We're All But Done
« Reply #1615 on: January 24, 2013, 09:29:50 PM »

I don’t understand UAW members voting Dem.  Oh, I understand you think Obama has your back, just like you think John Dingell has had your back for over 50 years.  But in the 1980’s there was well over a million of you. Now less than 400K. What is happening? You dues have provided these guys with millions and millions of dollars in campaign funds over the years. And then the hours you volunteered for their campaigns. Yet the million or so past UAW members, who lost their jobs, also forked over millions and volunteered for their campaigns. What about them? What did the dues/campaign funds and volunteer work get them?

Here is what I think is a big part of the problem is. Big government, lead by your hero’s, suck the private sector dry. Big government needs the revenues. They impede private sector growth with regulations, taxes and mandates. Then the weak private sector isn’t in a position to buy new cars. A few thousand more UAW members lose their jobs.

I can't understand it either.  I mean the Republican's in Michigan killed unions more or less with right to work, other states with R majorities have done the same.  I mean WHY DON'T those nasty union scum vote for the party that will keep unions?  It is hard to understand.
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sammy

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Re: We're All But Done
« Reply #1616 on: January 24, 2013, 10:04:10 PM »

I can't understand it either.  I mean the Republican's in Michigan killed unions more or less with right to work, other states with R majorities have done the same.  I mean WHY DON'T those nasty union scum vote for the party that will keep unions?  It is hard to understand.
OK, how, exactly, does RTW KILL unions? Those nasty union scum already vote for the party that will keep unions.
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Frenchfry

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Re: We're All But Done
« Reply #1617 on: January 24, 2013, 10:39:48 PM »

OK, how, exactly, does RTW KILL unions? Those nasty union scum already vote for the party that will keep unions.
The Economic Policy Institute has found that “right-to-work laws cost all workers, union and otherwise, $1,500 a year in wages and that they make it harder for workers to obtain pensions and health coverage.” Workers in right-to-work states “are also significantly less likely to receive employer-provided health insurance and pensions.” Finally, directly undercutting Republican justification for passing such laws, researchers found that right-to-work laws “have not succeeded in boosting employment growth in the states that have adopted them.”
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/12/10/1309801/right-to-work-hurts-middle-class/

======================================

Right-to-Work 101
Why These Laws Hurt Our Economy, Our Society, and Our Democracy


What are right-to-work laws?

In states where the law exists, “right-to-work” makes it illegal for workers and employers to negotiate a contract requiring everyone who benefits from a union contract to pay their fair share of the costs of administering it. Right-to-work has nothing to do with people being forced to be union members.

Federal law already guarantees that no one can be forced to be a member of a union, or to pay any amount of dues or fees to a political or social cause they don’t support. What right-to-work laws do is allow some workers to receive a free ride, getting the advantages of a union contract—such as higher wages and benefits and protection against arbitrary discipline—without paying any fee associated with negotiating on these matters.

That’s because the union must represent all workers with the same due diligence regardless of whether they join the union or pay it dues or other fees and a union contract must cover all workers, again regardless of their membership in or financial support for the union. In states without right-to-work laws, workers covered by a union contract can refuse union membership and pay a fee covering only the costs of workplace bargaining rather than the full cost of dues.

There is scant evidence these laws create jobs, help workers, or are good for a state’s economy, as supporters claim. Instead, these laws weaken unions and thereby hurt workers, the middle class, and local economies. We present here a Right-to-Work 101 so that the debate over right-to-work laws proceeds based on the facts.

Right-to-work laws don’t create jobs

Researchers who study the impact of right-to-work laws find that these laws do not create jobs—despite supporters’ claims to the contrary. The Indiana Chamber of Commerce, for example, claims that “unionization increases labor costs,” and therefore makes a given location less attractive to capital. The purpose, then, of right-to-work laws is to undermine unions and therefore lower wages in a given state, thus attracting more companies into the state.

But in practice this low-road strategy for job creation just doesn’t pan out. Despite boosters’ promises of job creation, researchers find that right-to-work had “no significant positive impact whatsoever on employment” in Oklahoma, the only state to have adopted a right-to-work law over the past 25 years⎯until Indiana did so days ago⎯and consequently the best example of how a new adopter of right-to-work laws might fare in today’s economy. In fact, both the number of companies relocating to Oklahoma and the total number of manufacturing jobs in the state fell by about a third since it adopted such a law in 2001.

Indeed, most right-to-work advocates’ purported evidence of job growth is based on outdated research and misleading assertions. An Indiana Chamber of Commerce-commissioned study found right-to-work states had higher employment growth between 1977 and 2008 compared to states without a right-to-work law, but much of that growth could be attributed to other factors. Those factors included the states’ infrastructure quality, and even its weather—which the study ignored.

Recent research from the Economic Policy Institute that controlled for these factors finds that right-to-work laws have not increased employment growth in the 22 states that have adopted them.

Right-to-work laws hurt workers

Right-to-work laws lower worker pay and benefits and make workplaces more dangerous for all workers—whether unionized or not—by weakening unions.

Unions have a significant and positive effect on the wages and benefits of union and nonunion workers alike. Unionized workers are able to bargain for better wages, benefits, and work conditions than they would otherwise receive if negotiating individually. The effect on the average worker—unionized or not—of working in a right-to-work state is to earn approximately $1,500 less per year than a similar worker in a state without such a law.

Workers in right-to-work states are also significantly less likely to receive employer-provided health insurance or pensions. If benefits coverage in non-right-to-work states were lowered to the levels of states with these laws, 2 million fewer workers would receive health insurance and 3.8 million fewer workers would receive pensions nationwide.

The fact that unionization raises people’s wages and benefits is borne out by surveys of union members and by common sense. Unions also affect the wages and benefits of nonunion workers by setting standards that gradually become norms throughout industries. To compete for workers, nonunion employers in highly unionized industries have to pay their workers higher wages. And unions support government policies (such as minimum-wage laws) that raise workers’ pay.

Right-to-work laws also may hurt workplace safety. For instance, the occupational-fatality rate in the construction industry—one of the most hazardous in terms of workplace deaths—is 34 percent higher in right-to-work states than in states without such laws. And one academic study finds that increasing union density has a positive effect on workplace safety in states with no right-to-work laws (for every 1 percent increase in unionization rates there is a 0.35 percent decline in construction fatality rates), but in right-to-work states, the effect of union density on safety disappears.

Unions are democratic organizations: If employees didn’t like their contracts, they would vote to reject the contract, vote to change their union officers, or vote to get rid of their union—all of which can be done under current law.

Right-to-work laws weaken the middle class

By weakening unions right-to-work laws also weaken the middle class. From pushing for fair wages and good benefits, to encouraging citizens to vote, to supporting Social Security and advocating for family-leave benefits, unions make the middle class strong by giving workers a voice in both the market and our democracy.

Nine of the 10 states with the lowest percentage of workers in unions—Mississippi, Arkansas, South Carolina, North Carolina, Georgia, Virginia, Tennessee, Texas, and Oklahoma—are right-to-work states. All of them also are saddled with a relatively weak middle class. The share of total income going to the middle class—defined as the middle 60 percent of the population—in each of these states is below the national average.

If unionization rates increased by 10 percentage points nationwide, the typical middle-class household—unionized or not—would earn $1,479 more each year. In fact, dollar for dollar, strengthening unions is nearly as important to the middle class as boosting college-graduation rates.

Right-to-work laws hurt small business

Since few small businesses are ever unionized, changing union regulations won’t affect them. Yet unlike big manufacturers who can choose which state to expand into, most small businesses are rooted in a local community and dependent on local consumers. When right-to-work laws lower the wages and benefits of area workers, they also threaten to reduce the number of jobs in the economy by reducing consumer demand.

The Economic Policy Institute estimates that for every $1 million in wage cuts, six jobs are lost in the service, retail, construction, real estate, and other local industries. For big manufacturers that sell their products all over the globe, this may be less important.

For small businesses that depend on local sales, reducing the amount of disposable income in local employees’ pockets can be devastating.

Right-to-work laws create rules that would hurt all organizations but only apply to unions

The corporate lobbyists who push for right-to-work legislation—such as the Chamber of Commerce and the National Right to Work Committee—want unions to operate under a set of rules that none of them accept for themselves. These lobbyists would never think of serving the interests of companies that refuse to pay dues to their organizations, yet they want unions to do so in order to drain their resources.

Federal law already guarantees every worker who is represented by a union equal and nondiscriminatory representation—meaning unions must provide the same services, vigorous advocacy, and contractual rights and benefits. This guarantee applies regardless of whether the employee is a union member. So if a non-dues-paying employee encounters a problem at work, the union is required to provide that individual full representation at no charge.

By contrast, the Chamber of Commerce and other employer organizations restrict some of their most valuable services to dues-paying members. When asked if they would agree to provide all services to any interested business, even if that business does not pay dues, Chamber representatives explained that they could not do that because dues are the primary source of Chamber funding and it would be unfair to other dues-paying members. And that certainly makes sense—for unions as well as the Chamber.

The Chamber of Commerce and National Right to Work Committee want unions to be the only organizations in the country that are required to provide full services to individuals who pay nothing for them. This is no different than enabling some American citizens to opt out of paying taxes while making available all government services. This is not an agenda to increase employee rights but rather to undermine the viability of independent-employee organizations.

Right-to-work laws are bad for our political democracy

Right-to-work laws infringe on the democratic rights of the electorate by weakening unions. Unions help boost political participation among ordinary citizens and convert this participation into an effective voice for pro-middle-class policies. By weakening unions, they are less able to advocate for pro-worker policies within our government and help get workers out to vote.

Research shows that for every percentage-point increase in union density, voter turnout increased by 0.2 to 0.25 percentage points. This means that if unionization rates were 10 percentage points higher during the 2008 presidential election, 2.6 million to 3.2 million more citizens would have voted.

Unions also help translate workers’ interests to elected officials and ensure that government serves the economic needs of the middle class. They do this by encouraging the public to support certain policies as well as by directly advocating for specific reforms. Unions were critical in securing government policies that support the middle class such as Social Security, the Affordable Care Act, family leave, and minimum-wage laws.

Indeed, this may be a large part of why many conservatives support right-to-work laws. Research demonstrates that supporters’ claims that these laws will create jobs and strengthen local economies are not credible. Instead, supporters may back these laws as a pretext for attacking an already weakened union movement in hopes of crippling it as a political force and as an advocate for all workers.

The bottom line: Right-to-work laws work against the critical needs of our economy, our society, and our democracy.
http://www.americanprogressaction.org/issues/labor/report/2012/02/02/11103/right-to-work-101/
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sammy

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Re: We're All But Done
« Reply #1618 on: January 24, 2013, 10:49:40 PM »

The Economic Policy Institute has found that “right-to-work laws cost all workers, union and otherwise, $1,500 a year in wages and that they make it harder for workers to obtain pensions and health coverage.” Workers in right-to-work states “are also significantly less likely to receive employer-provided health insurance and pensions.” Finally, directly undercutting Republican justification for passing such laws, researchers found that right-to-work laws “have not succeeded in boosting employment growth in the states that have adopted them.”
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/12/10/1309801/right-to-work-hurts-middle-class/

======================================

Right-to-Work 101
Why These Laws Hurt Our Economy, Our Society, and Our Democracy


What are right-to-work laws?

In states where the law exists, “right-to-work” makes it illegal for workers and employers to negotiate a contract requiring everyone who benefits from a union contract to pay their fair share of the costs of administering it. Right-to-work has nothing to do with people being forced to be union members.

Federal law already guarantees that no one can be forced to be a member of a union, or to pay any amount of dues or fees to a political or social cause they don’t support. What right-to-work laws do is allow some workers to receive a free ride, getting the advantages of a union contract—such as higher wages and benefits and protection against arbitrary discipline—without paying any fee associated with negotiating on these matters.

That’s because the union must represent all workers with the same due diligence regardless of whether they join the union or pay it dues or other fees and a union contract must cover all workers, again regardless of their membership in or financial support for the union. In states without right-to-work laws, workers covered by a union contract can refuse union membership and pay a fee covering only the costs of workplace bargaining rather than the full cost of dues.

There is scant evidence these laws create jobs, help workers, or are good for a state’s economy, as supporters claim. Instead, these laws weaken unions and thereby hurt workers, the middle class, and local economies. We present here a Right-to-Work 101 so that the debate over right-to-work laws proceeds based on the facts.

Right-to-work laws don’t create jobs

Researchers who study the impact of right-to-work laws find that these laws do not create jobs—despite supporters’ claims to the contrary. The Indiana Chamber of Commerce, for example, claims that “unionization increases labor costs,” and therefore makes a given location less attractive to capital. The purpose, then, of right-to-work laws is to undermine unions and therefore lower wages in a given state, thus attracting more companies into the state.

But in practice this low-road strategy for job creation just doesn’t pan out. Despite boosters’ promises of job creation, researchers find that right-to-work had “no significant positive impact whatsoever on employment” in Oklahoma, the only state to have adopted a right-to-work law over the past 25 years⎯until Indiana did so days ago⎯and consequently the best example of how a new adopter of right-to-work laws might fare in today’s economy. In fact, both the number of companies relocating to Oklahoma and the total number of manufacturing jobs in the state fell by about a third since it adopted such a law in 2001.

Indeed, most right-to-work advocates’ purported evidence of job growth is based on outdated research and misleading assertions. An Indiana Chamber of Commerce-commissioned study found right-to-work states had higher employment growth between 1977 and 2008 compared to states without a right-to-work law, but much of that growth could be attributed to other factors. Those factors included the states’ infrastructure quality, and even its weather—which the study ignored.

Recent research from the Economic Policy Institute that controlled for these factors finds that right-to-work laws have not increased employment growth in the 22 states that have adopted them.

Right-to-work laws hurt workers

Right-to-work laws lower worker pay and benefits and make workplaces more dangerous for all workers—whether unionized or not—by weakening unions.

Unions have a significant and positive effect on the wages and benefits of union and nonunion workers alike. Unionized workers are able to bargain for better wages, benefits, and work conditions than they would otherwise receive if negotiating individually. The effect on the average worker—unionized or not—of working in a right-to-work state is to earn approximately $1,500 less per year than a similar worker in a state without such a law.

Workers in right-to-work states are also significantly less likely to receive employer-provided health insurance or pensions. If benefits coverage in non-right-to-work states were lowered to the levels of states with these laws, 2 million fewer workers would receive health insurance and 3.8 million fewer workers would receive pensions nationwide.

The fact that unionization raises people’s wages and benefits is borne out by surveys of union members and by common sense. Unions also affect the wages and benefits of nonunion workers by setting standards that gradually become norms throughout industries. To compete for workers, nonunion employers in highly unionized industries have to pay their workers higher wages. And unions support government policies (such as minimum-wage laws) that raise workers’ pay.

Right-to-work laws also may hurt workplace safety. For instance, the occupational-fatality rate in the construction industry—one of the most hazardous in terms of workplace deaths—is 34 percent higher in right-to-work states than in states without such laws. And one academic study finds that increasing union density has a positive effect on workplace safety in states with no right-to-work laws (for every 1 percent increase in unionization rates there is a 0.35 percent decline in construction fatality rates), but in right-to-work states, the effect of union density on safety disappears.

Unions are democratic organizations: If employees didn’t like their contracts, they would vote to reject the contract, vote to change their union officers, or vote to get rid of their union—all of which can be done under current law.

Right-to-work laws weaken the middle class

By weakening unions right-to-work laws also weaken the middle class. From pushing for fair wages and good benefits, to encouraging citizens to vote, to supporting Social Security and advocating for family-leave benefits, unions make the middle class strong by giving workers a voice in both the market and our democracy.

Nine of the 10 states with the lowest percentage of workers in unions—Mississippi, Arkansas, South Carolina, North Carolina, Georgia, Virginia, Tennessee, Texas, and Oklahoma—are right-to-work states. All of them also are saddled with a relatively weak middle class. The share of total income going to the middle class—defined as the middle 60 percent of the population—in each of these states is below the national average.

If unionization rates increased by 10 percentage points nationwide, the typical middle-class household—unionized or not—would earn $1,479 more each year. In fact, dollar for dollar, strengthening unions is nearly as important to the middle class as boosting college-graduation rates.

Right-to-work laws hurt small business

Since few small businesses are ever unionized, changing union regulations won’t affect them. Yet unlike big manufacturers who can choose which state to expand into, most small businesses are rooted in a local community and dependent on local consumers. When right-to-work laws lower the wages and benefits of area workers, they also threaten to reduce the number of jobs in the economy by reducing consumer demand.

The Economic Policy Institute estimates that for every $1 million in wage cuts, six jobs are lost in the service, retail, construction, real estate, and other local industries. For big manufacturers that sell their products all over the globe, this may be less important.

For small businesses that depend on local sales, reducing the amount of disposable income in local employees’ pockets can be devastating.

Right-to-work laws create rules that would hurt all organizations but only apply to unions

The corporate lobbyists who push for right-to-work legislation—such as the Chamber of Commerce and the National Right to Work Committee—want unions to operate under a set of rules that none of them accept for themselves. These lobbyists would never think of serving the interests of companies that refuse to pay dues to their organizations, yet they want unions to do so in order to drain their resources.

Federal law already guarantees every worker who is represented by a union equal and nondiscriminatory representation—meaning unions must provide the same services, vigorous advocacy, and contractual rights and benefits. This guarantee applies regardless of whether the employee is a union member. So if a non-dues-paying employee encounters a problem at work, the union is required to provide that individual full representation at no charge.

By contrast, the Chamber of Commerce and other employer organizations restrict some of their most valuable services to dues-paying members. When asked if they would agree to provide all services to any interested business, even if that business does not pay dues, Chamber representatives explained that they could not do that because dues are the primary source of Chamber funding and it would be unfair to other dues-paying members. And that certainly makes sense—for unions as well as the Chamber.

The Chamber of Commerce and National Right to Work Committee want unions to be the only organizations in the country that are required to provide full services to individuals who pay nothing for them. This is no different than enabling some American citizens to opt out of paying taxes while making available all government services. This is not an agenda to increase employee rights but rather to undermine the viability of independent-employee organizations.

Right-to-work laws are bad for our political democracy

Right-to-work laws infringe on the democratic rights of the electorate by weakening unions. Unions help boost political participation among ordinary citizens and convert this participation into an effective voice for pro-middle-class policies. By weakening unions, they are less able to advocate for pro-worker policies within our government and help get workers out to vote.

Research shows that for every percentage-point increase in union density, voter turnout increased by 0.2 to 0.25 percentage points. This means that if unionization rates were 10 percentage points higher during the 2008 presidential election, 2.6 million to 3.2 million more citizens would have voted.

Unions also help translate workers’ interests to elected officials and ensure that government serves the economic needs of the middle class. They do this by encouraging the public to support certain policies as well as by directly advocating for specific reforms. Unions were critical in securing government policies that support the middle class such as Social Security, the Affordable Care Act, family leave, and minimum-wage laws.

Indeed, this may be a large part of why many conservatives support right-to-work laws. Research demonstrates that supporters’ claims that these laws will create jobs and strengthen local economies are not credible. Instead, supporters may back these laws as a pretext for attacking an already weakened union movement in hopes of crippling it as a political force and as an advocate for all workers.

The bottom line: Right-to-work laws work against the critical needs of our economy, our society, and our democracy.
http://www.americanprogressaction.org/issues/labor/report/2012/02/02/11103/right-to-work-101/
After all that, we do not have a democracy, we live in a republic, if you can believe that!
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John Kopke

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Re: We're All But Done
« Reply #1619 on: January 24, 2013, 11:02:59 PM »

I can't understand it either.  I mean the Republican's in Michigan killed unions more or less with right to work, other states with R majorities have done the same.  I mean WHY DON'T those nasty union scum vote for the party that will keep unions?  It is hard to understand.

Duck:

Listen Duck, if you would like for me to respond to a response you make to one of my posts I'll be happy to. The only stipulation I have is that somehwere in your "response" it has has something to do with what I discussing in my post.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 11:05:11 PM by John Kopke »
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John Kopke
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