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sammy

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Re: We're All But Done
« Reply #1740 on: June 15, 2013, 08:25:23 PM »

Stop blowing smoke ,John, no one believes you; you are a hyper-partisan. Oh, wait, some do believe you. Nah, they are hyper-partisan as well.
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Monroe Native

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Re: We're All But Done
« Reply #1741 on: June 15, 2013, 09:09:03 PM »

It is concerning to me that you can't keep up with inflation in a "safe" investment like a CD.  What an issue that must be for the retirees that are depending on savings to get by. 

What does that say about the dollar right now?  It says it isn't worth as much tomorrow as it is today.

The biggest insult on it all is you have to pay taxes on your "earnings."

What a joke. 

And the really scary part?  We could have Jimmy Carter type inflation or higher and still have the fed holding the interest rates down and still have the fed printing money.

Nah - that could never happen, right?
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I have learned that only two things are necessary to keep one's wife happy. First, let her think she's having her own way. And second, let her have it.
Lyndon B. Johnson

You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered.
Lyndon B. Johnson

John Kopke

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Re: We're All But Done
« Reply #1742 on: June 15, 2013, 09:36:21 PM »

Stop blowing smoke ,John, no one believes you; you are a hyper-partisan. Oh, wait, some do believe you. Nah, they are hyper-partisan as well.

Sammy:
Blowing smoke? Could you elaborate a little further? In what way was I blowing smoke?  Hard to argue with you, or Duck, when all you have is an opinion based on who knows what.
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John Kopke

sammy

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Re: We're All But Done
« Reply #1743 on: June 15, 2013, 09:48:00 PM »

Please read up on "sarcasm", John!
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John Kopke

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Re: We're All But Done
« Reply #1744 on: June 15, 2013, 09:50:23 PM »

Please read up on "sarcasm", John!

Sammy:
I understand. You've got nothing.
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John Kopke

sammy

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Re: We're All But Done
« Reply #1745 on: June 15, 2013, 09:54:20 PM »

No, you do not understand at all. Why do I waste my time?
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John Kopke

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Re: We're All But Done
« Reply #1746 on: June 15, 2013, 10:00:55 PM »

No, you do not understand at all. Why do I waste my time?

Well Sammy I'm sorry I got you all worked up. It's too bad you can't explain what it is that I don't understand.
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John Kopke

sammy

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Re: We're All But Done
« Reply #1747 on: June 15, 2013, 10:07:50 PM »

Ok, slowly, just for you;In this instance, I'm on your side. From "The magnificent seven";try not to understand me so fast!
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John Kopke

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Re: We're All But Done
« Reply #1748 on: June 15, 2013, 10:44:04 PM »

Thing that scares me is a GDP growth based on an economy inflated by the Fed printing dollars. Is the economy better because the stock market is at 15K? Are companies hiring people because the stock market is way up? That would be a negative. Is the miserable GDP growth rate based on actual growth, or the factoring in of stealth inflation?

Well I would submit that if the Fed announced the end of quantitative easing come this Monday the inflated stock market would tank, and both the bond market and the so called rise in housing prices would collapse when mortgage interest rates rise to market dictated levels.

Folks it is all a mirage.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2013, 10:52:31 PM by John Kopke »
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John Kopke

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Re: We're All But Done
« Reply #1749 on: June 15, 2013, 10:52:55 PM »

Well I would submit that if the Fed announced the end of quantitative easing come this Monday the inflated stock market would tank and both the bond market and the so called rise in housing prices would collapse when mortgage interest rates rise to market dictated levels.

It would tank, a correction would take place, and then with the right policies the economy would recover and grow.

They have been putting this correction off artificially for years now.

The longer they put it off the worse this correction is going to be.

I wish they would just get it over with.

The economy is not going to take off again until the uncertainty is out of the market.
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I have learned that only two things are necessary to keep one's wife happy. First, let her think she's having her own way. And second, let her have it.
Lyndon B. Johnson

You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered.
Lyndon B. Johnson

John Kopke

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Re: We're All But Done
« Reply #1750 on: June 15, 2013, 11:06:58 PM »

It would tank, a correction would take place, and then with the right policies the economy would recover and grow.

They have been putting this correction off artificially for years now.

The longer they put it off the worse this correction is going to be.

I wish they would just get it over with.

The economy is not going to take off again until the uncertainty is out of the market.

MN:
It is going to be a lot worse than just a correction. A whole lot worse. To squeeze out the debt being created on an ongoing basis today isn't going to happen overnight. And the longer the money printing goes on the longer it is going to take to even right the ship, much less even think about an economy taking off.
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John Kopke

John Kopke

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Re: We're All But Done
« Reply #1751 on: June 19, 2013, 10:58:56 PM »

Obama's recent speech in Germany drew a crowd of about 4500. In contrast the speech he gave in Germany when he was a candidate drew a crowd of 200K. Well the 200K were all excited about the image that was Obama. Five years later only 4500 want to see the reality that is Obama.
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John Kopke

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Re: We're All But Done
« Reply #1752 on: June 20, 2013, 07:25:47 AM »

MN:
It is going to be a lot worse than just a correction. A whole lot worse. To squeeze out the debt being created on an ongoing basis today isn't going to happen overnight. And the longer the money printing goes on the longer it is going to take to even right the ship, much less even think about an economy taking off.

John,

The solution to the high debt is to devalue the debt.

You do that by devaluing the currency.  Get your 15-20% a year inflation going.  First you get your debt into long term bonds at low interest rates for the foreseeable future.  Best if you hold that debt yourself - so you just "print" money and sell IOU's to yourself.  Does that sound at all familiar to what is going on now?

So right now the Fed is monetizing the debt in the form of long term bonds at extremely low interest rates.  Any idea what term those are for?  I haven't read those details anywhere.  Bet you they are for a long, long time though.

You then get inflation cruising at 15% or 20% a year - back to the 70's.  Every 3-5 years you cut the real value of your debt in half.  Do that for 5-10 years and your debt is now worth 20 or 25% of what it is worth today.  Much more manageable then, don't you think?  Since you have your debt tied up in long term bonds you aren't hurt by the interest rates that are ratcheted up to be ALMOST in line with the inflation rate. 

Of course everything is going to cost more....  that is just a nasty side effect of the plan.  The salaries start to get inflated with the price of goods.  The Stock Market gets inflated just keeping up with inflation - but the government is taxing those gains as if they were real.  The Congress doesn't bother increasing the amounts for the tax brackets, so everyone moves up into that next tax bracket and pays more to the government even though their spending power is drastically reduced.  Of course THAT isn't a tax increase, is it?  The rates haven't changed - right?

Meanwhile this same congress that leaves the tax brackets alone will also take actions to make sure that the government obligations to Social Security and Medicare Payouts are held artificially low - no way they are going to let those go up at 15% - maybe they will just creep them up at 3-5% a year.  Suddenly the unfunded obligation to Social Security and Medicare is far more manageable, never mind that many Americans that trusted the promise are slipping into poverty.

The governments debt is now worth a fraction of what it was, the obligations to Social Security and Medicare are cut down too, and more tax revenue is pouring into the Treasury.  It is all good - except for you and me and all the other sheeple.  When has that ever stopped the government from doing something?

That is the game plan I see coming. I see this shadow government moving the pieces into place.  It is going to be painful - but every night you will be reveled with how good things are - and the stock market will be pointed to as evidence of that success.

That is what I think is going to happen.  What do you think is going to happen?

Sorry if I don't think we are going to a post apocalyptic scenario.  Too many people have too much invested in the current system to let that happen.
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I have learned that only two things are necessary to keep one's wife happy. First, let her think she's having her own way. And second, let her have it.
Lyndon B. Johnson

You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered.
Lyndon B. Johnson

Frenchfry

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Re: We're All But Done
« Reply #1753 on: June 20, 2013, 11:41:33 AM »

Oh my...seems the righties long for the high interest rates like back in the Carter days.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,921854,00.html

The right doesn't seems to understand the negative consequences to the economy when those credit-card and mortgage interest rates rise. Heck, they are even clueless about the effects of austerity.
But then the right is wrong on everything...they blame Obama for the rising health-care costs, instead of mentioning the exorbitant salary of the CEO's...and completely ignoring the fact that the mandate was actually devised by the Republicans...and the same can be said about the overly criticized National Security programs:

Quote
In a June 15 letter, Dennis Rhodes says he thinks Dick Cheney is "chortling" now that President Obama is spying on the American citizenry and that "Obama is out-Cheneying Cheney."

Mr. Cheney appeared on "Fox News Sunday" (and this is Fox News, so we know it's got to be undisputable) and defended the surveillance programs. In fact, Cheney was a strong advocate for the programs when he was in office. Of course he was, because the surveillance program was started during the Bush administration!

Stellar Wind was an umbrella name for the original Bush-era program that collected phone and Internet data. According to a recent article in The Washington Post, "At Bush's direction "¦ the NSA had been siphoning e-mail metadata and technical records of Skype calls from data links owned by AT&T, Sprint and MCI, which later merged with Verizon."

Jack Goldsmith of the Office of Legal Counsel and James Comey, U.S. deputy attorney general under Bush, were "convinced that Bush had no lawful authority" to authorize the surveillance.

So, who's chortling now, Mr. Rhodes?
http://www.capecodonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130620/OPINION/306200330/-1/rss17

But I digress...here's an educated view on the topic:

I did want to weigh in briefly on the Fed’s latest, in which Bernanke confirmed that the Fed is getting significantly more hawkish — based on relatively optimistic forecasts.

My reaction is, this is not good. They might get away with it, but there’s also a serious chance that this will end up looking like a historic mistake.

Bear in mind, first, that the US economy is still deep in the hole, which is especially obvious if you look at employment rather than unemployment:

Aging of the population accounts for some but not much of the fall in the employment ratio; the fact is that we are still a very long way from acceptable employment levels. Meanwhile, inflation remains below the Fed’s target. Maybe the Fed believes that the situation will improve — but as everyone points out, the Fed has been consistently over-optimistic since the crisis began. And for now the economy still needs all the help it can get.

How can the Fed help? With short-term rates up against the zero lower bound, mainly through expectations — by conveying the message that it will wait to tighten, that it will let the economy recover and allow inflation to rise before hiking rates. To use my old phrase, it must credibly promise to be irresponsible.

And what it has just done, instead, is signal that it’s still a conventionally minded central bank.

So what if recovery stalls, and inflation expectations fall even further? Can the Fed turn on a dime, and send a credible message that it really isn’t so conventional-minded, after all? It’s hard to believe; having already shown itself inclined to start snatching away the punch bowl before the party even starts, it has arguably already given away the game.

I know that the latest had overwhelming support on the FOMC; I’m surprised and a bit shocked by that, and worry that we may have seen incestuous amplification at work.

I really hope that the real economy recovers at a pace that makes my fears groundless. But if it doesn’t, I fear that the Fed has just done more damage than it seems to realize.
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/

So while the partisan-right throws everything out there in hopes that something will stick...this development helps the Chicken-Littles with their pessimism...problem is, won't be long before the morons blame Obama...much like they do for high gas prices...and everything else imaginable.  8*
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John Kopke

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Re: We're All But Done
« Reply #1754 on: June 21, 2013, 08:19:29 PM »

Bernanke on Wednesday said the Fed "may" begin tapering their bond buying (money printing) by the end of this year and end it all together by the middle of next year. The same day the stock market drops 206 points. The next day it drops another 340! He didn't say he was ending money printing. He just said they were thinking about slowing it down and maybe ending it a year from now.

So folks think for a minute. If the market freaks out on the possibility that money printing in the relatively near future is going to start being "tapered' and "maybe" ended six months later, what would happen to the market if the Fed actually followed through on what they postulated?

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John Kopke
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