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[Frenchfry]

http://www.freep.com/article/20110306/BUSINESS06/103060332/Jobs-Michigan-Small-midsized-businesses-hiring-college-grads

http://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.mi.htm

Again from that sleezy right wing spin factory the US Bureau of Labor Statistics.... (the numbers are in thousands BTW) it would appear that using "he's in office, he owns it" philosophy the Billy used to inspire my original post in the topic... Snyder has in 3 months End of Dec 2010 to the end of March 2011 created 40,300 jobs.  So Billy.... There they are.

Hmmm...high paying jobs being replaced with minimum wage jobs and you're touting that as an accomplishment?

As Kopke likes to say....priceless.

The way I see it, Snyder hasn't done anything to take credit for any jobs...wait that's not entirely true....he installed people to take over local government units with the underlying intention to rob, steal, and privatize.

Recently saw Snyder being interviewed on TV about his plan for the Michigan educational system......the guy didn't say it but I think he's trying to bankrupt the system.

He, like most righties, would love nothing more than to eliminate public education altogether.

Look what another Repuke is doing....he wants to revoke teacher licenses for two years or permanently as punishment for striking:
http://www.freep.com/article/20110420/NEWS06/110420030/1285/NEWS15/Tougher-penalties-illegal-teacher-strikes-debated
Yep another advocate of increased penalties....the republicans are morons.

And where are those people shouting about picking winners and losers?

That's exactly what Snyder's doing with the carrot and stick incentive plan.

Play by the rules he created and a little more money will be released. 

All the pain he's causing is to help his big business bosses get tax breaks.

I recall the claims about Snyder being a moderate....but I knew better.

While you don't have the courage to acknowledge that you made a mistake...lots of others do....and that's why we're going to witness a successful recall campaign.

But even then I doubt the right will get the message.

[Frenchfry]

Washtenaw: Snyder Recall Wording Clear
April 30, 2011

At a clarity hearing held on April 29, 2011, the Washtenaw County board of election commissioners found that the proposed ballot language in a petition asking for the recall of Gov. Rick Snyder was sufficiently clear. Snyder, a Republican, was elected Nov. 2, 2010.

Washtenaw County’s election board held the hearing because the petition must be filed in the county where the subject of the recall lives – Snyder is an Ann Arbor area resident.

Around 20 people attended the hearing, many of whom wore yellow buttons with language indicating support for the recall. Four people addressed the board during the public participation part of the agenda, including Snyder’s legal counsel, John Pirich, of the law firm Honigman Miller Schwartz and Cohn. Snyder – who is giving the commencement speech at the April 30 University of Michigan graduation ceremonies – did not attend Friday’s hearing.

The board of election commissioners consists of (chair) Donald E. Shelton, chief judge of the Washtenaw County Trial Court; (secretary) Larry Kestenbaum, county clerk; and (member) Catherine McClary, county treasurer. Kestenbaum and McClary were elected clerk and treasurer as Democrats. Shelton was elected judge on a non-partisan ballot, but in the past has run for office as a Democrat.

The vote on the clarity of the language was 2-1. McClary’s was the dissenting vote.

The language that the board found to be sufficiently clear was as follows: “Richard D. Snyder has requested from the legislature, approved and signed various laws that take authority and funds from local governments and school districts and vest them with the state. He has obtained for himself, through his appointed Emergency Financial Managers, the power to invalidate legal and binding contracts entered into by properly elected local authorities. He has sought tax increases upon retirees and lower income families, but instead of addressing the deficit, he has sought large new tax cuts for corporations and businesses.” [.pdf of proposed recall ballot language]

Under Michigan’s state election law, the finding at a clarity hearing can be appealed to the Circuit Court within 10 days of the finding by the petitioner or the officer. As of late Friday, April 29, Snyder had not made a decision whether to appeal.

Snyder’s office issued this statement: “The Governor remains fully committed to making the tough fiscal and policy decisions that have been put off for far too long. He knew full well that it wasn’t going to be easy. His budget and tax plan was a comprehensive approach to hit the ‘reset’ button and tackle the state’s structural deficit once and for all, grow Michigan’s economy for more and better jobs, ensure core and safety net services, and build a strong foundation for the future.”

After public participation, the deliberations by the board of election commissioners on the clarity of the language lasted about 10 minutes, with the entire session lasting around 20 minutes.
Background

The petition language was submitted on April 18, 2011 by Gerald D. Rozner from the city of Monroe. Rozner attended the clarity hearing. The recall effort is being organized by a group called Michigan Citizens United. By state election law, the board had a window between 10 and 20 days after the petition during which to complete the clarity hearing. If no hearing had been held, the default finding is that the language is sufficiently clear.

If there is no appeal or if the petition language survives any appeal, the recall effort would need to collect signatures equal to 25% of the number of votes cast for the office of governor in the general election – about 800,000 signatures would be required. By law, the petition itself can’t be submitted until six months after the recall subject takes office – that means the recall petition could be filed no earlier than July 1, 2011.
Hearing Introduction

About 10 minutes after 9 a.m. when the hearing was scheduled to begin, Catherine McClary told the audience that the election board would wait until its chair, Judge Donald Shelton, arrived – he’d indicated he was on his way.

When Shelton arrived a few minutes later, he described the purpose of the hearing – for the board to determine if the reasons for the recall stated in the petition are of sufficient clarity to enable both the officer [Snyder] whose recall is being sought and the voters to identify the course of conduct that is the basis of the recall.

Shelton stressed that the board was not there to “talk about, rule on, or otherwise discuss the truthfulness or falsity” of the statements in the proposed petition. He reiterated that the purpose of the hearing was only to determine if the statements are clear enough for the officer to understand them and for voters to vote on them.

Shelton allowed that several people who wished to speak might well have strong feelings about whether the statements are true or not true, but that’s not the question to be decided, he said.
Public Participation

Shelton first invited the proponents of the petition language to make a statement, if they wished to do so. Three members of Michigan Citizens United identified themselves as present. After a brief consultation among themselves, Tim Kramer approached the microphone.
Public Participation: Petitioner

Shelton asked Kramer if he’d like to speak to the language in the petition. Kramer told Shelton that he felt the language was clear. Marion Townsend asked if they were required to make a statement, or if they could let the words in the proposed petition stand for themselves.

Shelton told them that they could absolutely do that, but he was making sure they were provided with an opportunity to make a statement. Townsend said they were willing to “let it ride” pending further discussion.
Public Participation: Legal Counsel for Snyder

When Shelton invited further commentary from the pubic, the legal counsel for Snyder – John Pirich, of the law firm Honigman Miller Schwartz and Cohn – then addressed the board. He argued that the language was not clear. He began by citing the relevant section of the Michigan State Election Law, which requires that each reason given for the recall be of sufficient clarity to enable the officer and the electorate to identify the course of conduct that is the basis for the recall. From the Michigan State Election Law (Act 166 of 1954):


Too much to post....just go to the site:
http://annarborchronicle.com/2011/04/30/washtenaw-snyder-recall-wording-clear/

[The Fuzz]

Don't you just hate it when every one of your "points" is rebutted? The people haven't won anything but the booby prize. (And no Fuzz, not THAT kind of Booby).

I grin every single time I hear that expression.  Makes me think of my top 10 list....actually 5, but that's just math.

[Collegekid]

I grin every single time I hear that expression.  Makes me think of my top 10 list....actually 5, but that's just math.

10 would be better. I mean even a pair aren't perfectly matched, hence the subtle differences, brings out the connoisseur in us all.

[livewire]

There will never be enough signatures to put the recall on the ballot, so all of this talk is pointless.

I say, let's give Snyder 8 years (not 4 months!), and then look back and see what Michigan's economy looks like, before we attack him, and blame him for destroying what is left of our State after Granholm got through with it.



I think you'll be blown away.

[Collegekid]

There will never be enough signatures to put the recall on the ballot, so all of this talk is pointless.

I say, let's give Snyder 8 years (not 4 months!), and then look back and see what Michigan's economy looks like, before we attack him, and blame him for destroying what is left of our State after Granholm got through with it.



I think you'll be blown away.

Not sure I'm willing to give him 8 years, but I'll give him 3.5 and then evaluate it.  I don't like what he's done so far, but I'm willing to give him some more time.

(by the way, did you see the pictures I posted for you about the roof? I'f not I'll PM you the link.)

[livewire]

Not sure I'm willing to give him 8 years, but I'll give him 3.5 and then evaluate it.  I don't like what he's done so far, but I'm willing to give him some more time.

(by the way, did you see the pictures I posted for you about the roof? I'f not I'll PM you the link.)

I agree - I will be deciding how well he's doing after 3.5 years, too.  Fact of the matter is, we don't have a choice.  But no matter how you look at it, 4 months is not enough time for anyone to make a difference.

And no, I didn't see any pics...  PM me the link so I know where to look.

[Baby Hitler]

Attack?  He launched missles into their classrooms?

Perhaps you have heard of the term "Attrition warfare"? Perhaps not. For that you would have to be educated, and that would require teachers who can teach.

Something that Republicans like yourself are totally against.

[ducksoup]

Quote from: ducksoup on April 30, 2011, 10:43:30 PM
I have not heard, as you spin, that Democrats, or anyone, is saying give Obama more time after two+ years to fix jobs.  That battle was lost when the party of “no” refused to help workers. On your claim that he is attempting to be recalled because he hasn’t created jobs in 4 months. 

That wasn't my claim duck.... Billy made that assertion.

Okay, so you were responding to a comment by Billy.  YOU said that the recall is all because he hasn’t created jobs in 4 months when “my Lord the Democrats are still pleading for every one just to give Obama more time.... he inherited a huge mess...... 2+ years in…”  That is YOUR claim, and I don’t buy the spin.  I don’t hear anyone claiming that Obama needs a break because it isn’t enough time.

Quote from: jbs49238 on April 30, 2011, 08:59:04 PM
Are you serious?  What is it, not even May and talking point is "How many jobs has he created?", my Lord the Democrats are still pleading for every one just to give Obama more time.... he inherited a huge mess...... 2+ years in, but the Republican guy only gets 4 months to fix the whole mess?  Partisans are so pathetic.... I didn't get my way but I will continue to try to force my minority viewpoint on everyone even if they don't like it.

Umm, yeah, right!   What I hear people upset over is that he campaigned as moderate and is showing far, far right now.  He claimed to be FOR education and has made severe cuts;

He has PROPOSED cuts, has not actually made any yet.  The $170 a child is from the expired Federal Government grant to the State.  Of course the Dems are lumping that amount in with the proposed cuts to make the proposed cuts seem that much worse.  Are you prepared to also blame Obama for cutting education since Washington eliminated that $170?  Didn't think so.

Proposed is correct.  Never heard of that cut.  Tried to find it but came up empty.  I found some higher education grant cuts but not anything that seems like what you refer.

 

in my opinion to force his EMF’s to have a reason to take over schools.

Well we all know the saying about opinions.  If it is the same as yours its right.

Yep, just opinion as I stated clearly.  But, you may be right with your opinion and no school will suffer the burden of EMF’s.  You might be right and no unions will be eliminated.  Who knows.  It seems that all unions have already been allowing negotiations to reduce wages and benefits already, as you have said your own union has done.  But, hey, why not go harder and kill them off than use negotiations?  I see them as dictatorships; you see them as a way to correct the worlds evils.  Whatever.  I choose a Republic of representation and not the elimination of that representation. 

But, hey, if you want to use the fox news spin that it is about jobs after only 4 months I guess that is all you have.

TRY HARDER!


Love that right wing

TRY HARDER!

spin…  This state was perfect and creating a zillion high paying jobs and had a super economic growth UNTIL YOUR person was elected and ran it into the ground.   You must live in fantasy land and not Michigan.  Michigan has been hemorrhaging jobs since the oil problems in the middle eighties and it only got worse.

FACT:  When Engler took office the number of employed workers in Michigan was under 4.5M, when he left it was 4.75M and had actually peaked near 5M.  At one point under Engler Michigan (you know the state you claim "has been hemorrhaging jobs since ..... the middle eighties") had an all time low unemployment rate of 3.3%

http://data.bls.gov/pdq/SurveyOutputServlet

But don't let that partisan spin from the United States Bureau of Labor Statistics get in the way of YOUR story spin

Yep, you are right and employment numbers did go up.  Good  job.  My perception was incorrect as I was looking at the loss of manufacturing jobs and did not account for the increase in lower paying jobs.  But, you are right about total numbers.  Funny though, what I was arguing is what you ignored.  “Suck it up Democrats, the queen ran the State into the ground and the people didn't elect your prince to complete the burial.”  Your own link proves you wrong.  Granholm is not the one and only soul reason that Michigan is a mess as you very clearly say. I wasn’t all that big on Bernero, and was one of those snowed by Snyder.  As I have said I thank you for not letting me vote for him.  Your super negative campaigning for him convinced me during the election that I didn’t want to give him a try.   But, it still is not ALL Granholms fault as you claim.
But hey, it is your spin…

So, you argue that hurting seniors and the poor and education

Talking points, all three.  How are the seniors and poor being hurt?  I suppose when you start making someone pay anything over zero in taxes (after they make their first $20K) you are really putting the screws to them.  As far as education, the cuts to the public schools are primarily to push more funding to secondary education, community colleges and trade schools.  While I agree with CC's and trade schools, I disagree with our Gov. on additional funding for State Universities.... they are all already fat with cash and generous alumni.

Really?  A PROPOSED cut of 85% to big corporations is paid for by cuts to seniors the poor and education and they paid nothing ?  Well, okay education didn’t pay, but would receive far less but that money you want to go to big corps is coming from somewhere and it isn’t an increase in taxes.

to give a TAX SHIFT (not the budget cuts so often touted as supposed to be needed) is the answer?  Trickle down economics again?

Ahh the claim Dems make when they realize they don't understand tax policy.  Trickle down economics is the theory that if you give people who make obscene amounts of money a huge tax cut on their personal income they will reinvest it in the businesses they own and produce more product and jobs.  Actually this was a boom for revenues to the Federal Government under Reagan but that is not for here.

Snyder is giving tax breaks on production, so the business doesn't have to pay so damn much when it sells the stuff it makes.  When you make something more profitable to make then you don't have to worry about trimming on the most easily controlled cost.... LABOR.
 It has not worked so why try again?

Supply and demand regulate labor needs, not profit.  Well, not directly.  Even if demand is high there can be labor losses to increase profits.  But, an increase in profit has no bearing on demand in this case as reduction in taxes creates no demand. 

A raise?  Really?  When the drive is to lower wages to near nothing

Another talking point.  I have yet to hear the news that all companies in America have stopped giving rasies and are in fact lowering them on a daily basis.  What I do hear on a daily basis are the labor unions hemming and hawing about having to pick up some of their benefits, or taking a pay freeze for a year or two because the folks they work for can't afford to pay them.  Companies need to survive too duck, it is the only way to allow the workers to survive unless you want to put communism on the table.

If you believe it is only a wage reduction for a year or two… well, I wish that you were right, I really want that to be true.  I don’t see an upward change in wages coming for at least a decade or more.  Wage suppression has just begun, not close to an end as your post suggests. ( two years of wage reductions and the economy crashed almost 3 years ago.)

and you spin that they wouldn’t get a raise?  Hey, why not just do like one of those New England states and make a law that anyone under twenty doesn’t qualify for minimum wage and they can be paid peanuts.

New England is pretty liberal duck, it probably couldn't fly there, but maybe we should try it in one of those backwards economically depressed states like Texas.

It is Maine, and they have two bills.  One to increase how many hours a child can work, and lessening restrictions on what they can do coupled with a bill to reduce teen wages to five something an hour up to age 20.

Yes, you are right.  You won and you get your way and you can say F—you about being fair, or about being right and do whatever you want.  You can trash the state in the name of “you won”.  You say that Granholm with a larger percentage of R’s in congress is to blame for “it really hasn't been a quality result” and we have to hurt the little guys because they are the enemy because maybe some of them didn’t vote for your guy.  Maybe people feel that “Not much change “ is a lot better than buried in a hole with no way out again.

Like I said I did't win anything, and we are already buried in the hole duck, Bernero would have guided the cement.  Snyder is offering a way out, you just don't want to help.

I see, so not wanting your brand of strong arm tactics, near dictatorships, elimination of elected officials by one person’s say, severe cuts to education in the guise of “making it better”  is not wanting to help.  Why should I want to “help” things that I believe are wrong?

But, I will agree that the chances of them getting 800,000 signatures is too steep to get.  Not because  the majority sees him as the genius

Actually the man is a genius, he is getting more bang for his buck with every bill passed.  He understands compromise and is whipping his opponenets at every turn at their own game.... politics.  Imagine if you will you own a car and some schlub walks up to you and says "I'll give you $2000 for it."  Now you really want $4000 so how do you get what you want?  In the game of politics you barter and claw and bend and concede to stuff you really don't want and eventually you get $3000 and no one really wins, you feel you didn't get the right value, and the other guy feels like he paid too much.  Snyder doesn't play like that because it leads to waste duck.  Also he has compromised on the tax bill and indicates there are places to negotiate on his education plan.  So the choice is the whine about the sticker price or work towards mutually beneficial solutions.

Maybe instead of you bragging about strong arm tactics that are 100% for one political party it should be for all of the people and with both parties?  Sadly, your chosen ones are supposed to represent the people, not YOUR party.

you do, but because they haven’t seen the consequences of what he has done yet.

But you have a crystal ball, and its all bad!  What consequences duck, you must be telling the future... unemployment is down, businesses are hiring the only thing bad thats happened in Michigan since Snyder took place has been the weather.  Which I know proportionately affects low income and the elderly and children more, AND IT'S ALL SNYDERS FAULT!

WOW!  You paint with a rosy as all get out brush through your impression of the future based on what you see.  I see a different outcome from the same facts.   Nice troll comment.  Yep, Snyder is perfect, a GOD, and will do no wrong.  Nothing you or he does will hurt anyone.  No rights will be taken away.  The world is rosy all because your chosen won the election to represent part of the people.

http://www.freep.com/article/20110306/BUSINESS06/103060332/Jobs-Michigan-Small-midsized-businesses-hiring-college-grads

http://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.mi.htm

Again from that sleezy right wing spin factory the US Bureau of Labor Statistics.... (the numbers are in thousands BTW) it would appear that using "he's in office, he owns it" philosophy the Billy used to inspire my original post in the topic... Snyder has in 3 months End of Dec 2010 to the end of March 2011 created 40,300 jobs.  So Billy.... There they are.

Yep, and McDonalds advertised it was hiring 50,000 people and got over a million applications… dang, those high paying entry level service jobs must be great ones…

Also hearing that Wal Mart is complaining that people are not buying enough and profits are down.  Guess that means less high paying workers there now.

[ducksoup]

Duck.  You are trolling again.  Stop It!

Although I will admit, I think you hit almost EVERY SINGLE talking point.  Had you thrown in "Snyder is holding the cord getting ready to disconnect the machine keeping old people alive", I may have given you Kudos.

Also, I didn't win anything.  The People of the State of Michigan won.  At least the those who pay the bills.

Oh, okay.  Responding to your troll post is a troll post!  Got it... Did you dictate that free speech is eliminated now?

I pay a part of those bills and I didn't win a thing.  So you are again wrong.

[ducksoup]

For once I agree with SCF... no way they get a LEGIT 800,000 signatures.

I love that qualifier.  The won't get "legit" signatures.  Ha ha.  Watching too much Fox news again I see.

[SidecarFlip]

The way I see it (from a registered voter's standpoint) and (a vote for Rick Snyder) is, he's doing or attempting to do exactly what he said he would prior to getting elected, that is, balancing the income with the outgo.  Any Michigander worth their salt should see that.

My statement about obtaining qualified, registered voters to sign a petition applies.  jbs's 'legit' voters has nothing to do with Faux News and more to do with qualified whiners versus legitimate, registered voters.

Disgruntled citizens who want immediate results, should just apply for free cheese from the government...before Rick eliminates the superfluous cheese that is.

I personally don't agree with every facet of his agenda but the end game is fiscal accountability.  That is a circuitous road to be sure.

Of course it would be against the TOS (I believe at least, that is personal information) to poll posters as to if, in fact, they are registered voters or just certifiable whiners but I wonder just what the percentage is on this thread and/or the percentage is, in general on this site......

[Frenchfry]

Furthermore, it's been my observation, at least in township politics, that the people that whine the loudest aren't even registered voters.

It's real easy to stand on the sidelines and goad on the incensed.

I've seen that play out many times.

This recall campaign looks to me like a bunch of sour grapes.

The way I see it (from a registered voter's standpoint) and (a vote for Rick Snyder) is, he's doing or attempting to do exactly what he said he would prior to getting elected, that is, balancing the income with the outgo.  Any Michigander worth their salt should see that.

My statement about obtaining qualified, registered voters to sign a petition applies.  jbs's 'legit' voters has nothing to do with Faux News and more to do with qualified whiners versus legitimate, registered voters.

Disgruntled citizens who want immediate results, should just apply for free cheese from the government...before Rick eliminates the superfluous cheese that is.

I personally don't agree with every facet of his agenda but the end game is fiscal accountability.  That is a circuitous road to be sure.

Of course it would be against the TOS (I believe at least, that is personal information) to poll posters as to if, in fact, they are registered voters or just certifiable whiners but I wonder just what the percentage is on this thread and/or the percentage is, in general on this site......

I can tell you that every eligible member of my family is registered to vote and it's been that way since attaining adulthood.

Your assertions defy logic.

Maybe the large mounds of dung on your farm has affected you negatively.

[Billy]

stop being so damn greedy

That pretty much sums up the whole argument in my eyes. How awesome is that my disapproval of our current governor has earned me the title of a greedy, unregistered, cheese collecting, anti- Michigander. Keep up the good work guys with reasoning like this who needs to think for themselves. And JBS I am a relatively young person but thanks for looking out for me anyhow. 

[313girl]

From JBS:

"He has PROPOSED cuts, has not actually made any yet.  The $170 a child is from the expired Federal Government grant to the State.  Of course the Dems are lumping that amount in with the proposed cuts to make the proposed cuts seem that much worse.  Are you prepared to also blame Obama for cutting education since Washington eliminated that $170?  Didn't think so."

Actually, Snyder's PROPOSED cuts were much deeper than $170, he wanted $300 per pupil  on top of the fed money. And the Senate passed a $340 pp cut on Wednesday.


"Snyder said he plans to set up a bonus fund for the 2012-13 academic year that would reward school districts and individual schools that show children are learning what they need to know to advance to the next grade. But he's sticking with a plan that would cut school district funding by $300 per student this fall on top of a $170-per-student cut in place when he took office. The $170 cut was filled with federal money for many districts this year, but the federal funds won't be available next year. That means many districts will have a $470 per student loss.

The governor wants to cut $300 per student so he can use money from the school aid fund to pay for community colleges and universities rather than the general fund. That idea isn't going over well with some Republican lawmakers who control the budget process. The House has proposed reductions of $285 to $331 per student, while a Senate plan would cut just $170 per student. In both cases, that would be on top of the early $170 cut.

http://www.dailypress.net/page/content.detail/id/529918/Snyder-outlines-plans-for-improving-education-system.html?nav=5003