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Collegekid

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The Autopen
« on: May 27, 2011, 11:04:20 PM »

What do you think about it being used to sign legislation into law?
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ShorTea

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Re: The Autopen
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2011, 11:13:27 PM »

Tacky!
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BigRedDog

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Re: The Autopen
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2011, 08:01:07 AM »

What do you think about it being used to sign legislation into law?


The CNN News video below points out a few things...

But the first thing I always look at anytime anyone does anything is "their intent".  The intent seems pretty obvious and straight forward to me (I'm sure there are some that will argue, so have at it).

This is obviously new technology that didn't exist when the constitution was written.  Just think if it had....   they wouldn't have had to wait for months for everyone to travel to sign the Declaration of Independence.

In the video it mentions about what if the President was not mentally all there and directed it's use...

seems to me we had a President recently that wasn't quite all there for 8 years...

why weren't they questioning him all that time 8* 8* 8*


Autopen Machine Signs Patriot Act For Obama
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TwicePipes

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Re: The Autopen
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2011, 08:43:33 AM »

The CNN News video below points out a few things...

But the first thing I always look at anytime anyone does anything is "their intent".  The intent seems pretty obvious and straight forward to me (I'm sure there are some that will argue, so have at it).

This is obviously new technology that didn't exist when the constitution was written.  Just think if it had....   they wouldn't have had to wait for months for everyone to travel to sign the Declaration of Independence.

In the video it mentions about what if the President was not mentally all there and directed it's use...

seems to me we had a President recently that wasn't quite all there for 8 years...

why weren't they questioning him all that time 8* 8* 8*


Autopen Machine Signs Patriot Act For Obama
Your last sentence makes a very good point. BRD. We see and hear this constant scrutiny of every mi-nute and often trivial detail of this Presidents existence, while turning a blind eye to the his predecessors atrocities.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2011, 08:45:14 AM by TwicePipes »
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ShorTea

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Re: The Autopen
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2011, 10:05:22 AM »

I'm still suprised the autopen was used, I would have expected them to just e-mail the document, print it and have him sign it. However then perhaps the documents could have been switched. Who knows, but it could be a fun time with the machine...if the threat of going to jail didn't linger over me! :)
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BigRedDog

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Re: The Autopen
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2011, 10:10:03 AM »

I'm still suprised the autopen was used, I would have expected them to just e-mail the document, print it and have him sign it. However then perhaps the documents could have been switched. Who knows, but it could be a fun time with the machine...if the threat of going to jail didn't linger over me! :)

I'm sure the constitution doesn't cover emailed or even faxed documents ShorTea ;) ;) ;)
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Collegekid

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Re: The Autopen
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2011, 10:27:31 AM »

I honestly don't see the big deal.  It was still his intent to 'sign' the bill into law.

I used sign in quotations there, as according to the Office of Legal Council the term 'sign' when the constitution was written did not mean one had to physically mark the paper themselves.

Quote
“the legal understanding of the word ‘sign’ at the time the Constitution was drafted and ratified and during the early years of the Republic. We find that, pursuant to this understanding, a person may sign a document by directing that his signature be affixed to it by another.”

This, the OLC found, was supported by opinions of the Attorney General and the Department of Justice “addressing statutory signing requirements in a variety of contexts. Reading the constitutional text in light of this established legal understanding, we conclude that the President need not personally perform the physical act of affixing his signature to a bill to sign it within the meaning of Article I, Section 7...

“We emphasize that we are not suggesting that the President may delegate the decision to approve and sign a bill, only that, having made this decision, he may direct a subordinate to affix the President’s signature to the bill.”

Based on that I think it's perfectly legal to do this.  However I do find it odd that they would first do it on such a major piece of legislation and not some throw away proclamation or something in order to at least have the precedent set. Not that I care for this piece of legislation particularly.
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SMASH

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Re: The Autopen
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2011, 11:10:32 AM »

What do you think about it being used to sign legislation into law?
Who cares? They do what they want anyhow.

EO's and signing statements, they make law at will.

What do we even need Congress for?

To maintain the schrade we actually have a choice?

The Republic is dead, long live the Republic.
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Frenchfry

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Re: The Autopen
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2011, 12:26:57 AM »

OBAMA'S KARMATIC PRETZEL
by Jim Hightower

Sometimes, political karma can be so right, even when it applies to something so wrong.

Thus it was that Barack Obama became the first U.S. president in history to sign legislation into law without actually signing it. While he was traveling in Europe, Congress passed a bill extending the infamous Patriot Act for another four years of secret, autocratic invasions of our privacy. The extension passed 15 minutes before midnight on the day the law was to expire – no time to fly it to Obama for his required signature. So, he ordered that his name be affixed by autopen.

How appropriate that this liberty-busting act be signed into law by a soulless machine, rather than – as required by the Constitution – by the actual president. Article 1, Section 7 says that for a president to approve a congressional bill, "he shall sign it."

As you might expect, this mechanical usurpation of the human hand has driven the cult of Obama deligitimizers nuts (a pretty short ride for them), and some are railing against the high crime of this non-signature. But the real crime is not in how the bill was signed, but that a Democrat in the White House would sign it at all. The Patriot Act is an atrocious, fundamentally un-American little house of horrors concocted by John Ashcroft and Dick Cheney. For Obama to put his name to it legitimizes the national surveillance state as a new bipartisan authoritarian normal over America.

Obama's team asserts that his mechanical signing is authorized by a 2005 justice department memo that – abracadabra – autocratically declares it okay. Great – an act of raw authoritarianism, hung around America's neck by the authoritarian Bush regime, is now extended on the basis of an authoritarian executive decree by that same regime. Obama has twisted himself into a karmatic pretzel.

"In presidential first, bill becomes law via autopen," Austin American Statesman, May 28, 2011.

"This Modern World by Tom Tomorrow," The Austin Chronicle, May 27, 2011
.
http://www.jimhightower.com/node/7463
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This is what I see when I visit:

"Sorry Frenchfry, you are banned from posting and sending personal messages on this forum.
This ban is not set to expire."

No emails, no warnings, no communication whatsoever...just that ban

May be what happened to the other libs as well.

I guess disabling the report to admin link only on the lib side was indicative of the slanted games they play.

Enjoy your spoon-fed Faux News type right-wing echo-chamber.

Edited to add:

This is the only way to answer some of the questions posed:

1) I did nothing to warrant the banishment, it's political.

2) It's the router that's blocked but considering all the nonsense right-wing games being played by those running the site...it's just not worth it to bypass the banishment block.

3) The moron stalkers from MT contemplating a visit will be considered a threat and can expect to have a bad day if they act upon those idiotic thoughts.

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Mayonnaise

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Re: The Autopen
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2011, 08:32:17 AM »

I personally didn't like it since it was used to sign the Patriot Act. (which I do not agree with)
But, I do think that if another type of Bill was signed, say for example, fix the economy, create jobs, put a little extra money in 'our' pockets, then we would see more politicians coming forward about the use of the Autopen in Legislative matters.
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