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[PXaiver]

I'm glad to see I'm the only big picture person here.  Unfortunately you don't see the full consequences of your actions.  I can't expect you too because you're more concerned with yourselves and those around you instead of looking at the big picture of over population and limited resources.  It's mentalities like that that will one day doom this species.  Fortunately for you, you will be long gone before you see the suffering pf mankind.  I will be clear of conscious when I die.  You small picture people amaze me in your limited vision. 

[ell]

Let nature take it's course and let the person pass. By doing so you are being socially and environmentally responsible.

I thought you worked in an industry that supplies the medical field.  I may be wrong, but I thought first it was a firm that produced products for hearts, and then something to do with blood from donors/vendors.  Maybe I'm wrong, and if so, I apologize.  But if I'm not, this seems like it would be a huge conflict for you.  As I said, if I'm wrong, I apologize.

[PXaiver]

Smash you and I are in 100% agreement in this. This is a way that the government is taking away our right to choose how we take care of ourselves.  If I don't want to go to the doctor I'm not forced to.  I shouldn't be forced to wear a helmet, or a seatbelt for that matter.  I'm an adult.  I know the consequences. I decide if I take the risk.  I find it interesting that other states have lower insurance rates.  I wonder what Michigan insurance companies are doing with all that money. 

[PXaiver]

I thought you worked in an industry that supplies the medical field.  I may be wrong, but I thought first it was a firm that produced products for hearts, and then something to do with blood from donors/vendors.  Maybe I'm wrong, and if so, I apologize.  But if I'm not, this seems like it would be a huge conflict for you.  As I said, if I'm wrong, I apologize.

It is.  I hate my job and I didn't like my previous one because they conflict so greatly with one of my core beliefs.  Unfortunately self preservation is an undeniable instinct and I am stuck helping people I don't think should be helped.

[Brian Beneteau]

It is.  I hate my job and I didn't like my previous one because they conflict so greatly with one of my core beliefs.  Unfortunately self preservation is an undeniable instinct and I am stuck helping people I don't think should be helped.

I think wanting a new heart to continue living is a much greater undeniable instinct. Can't you live with less than the amount of money you are making and not sacrifice your core beliefs. Sounds a bit selfish in my opinion to put money ahead of life when it comes to beliefs.

[ell]

Smash you and I are in 100% agreement in this. This is a way that the government is taking away our right to choose how we take care of ourselves.  If I don't want to go to the doctor I'm not forced to.  I shouldn't be forced to wear a helmet, or a seatbelt for that matter.  I'm an adult.  I know the consequences. I decide if I take the risk.  I find it interesting that other states have lower insurance rates.  I wonder what Michigan insurance companies are doing with all that money.

I imagine giving their executives huge bonuses!

[PXaiver]

I think wanting a new heart to continue living is a much greater undeniable instinct. Can't you live with less than the amount of money you are making and not sacrifice your core beliefs. Sounds a bit selfish in my opinion to put money ahead of life when it comes to beliefs.

Those decisions should be pretty obvious.  If you can't continue to live without major surgery then you shouldn't be here.  My own grandfather had 2 triple bypasses before heI died and if it were up to me he wouldn't have had the first one. 

Now as for my living situation, I would gladly take less money to work somewhere that is more in line with my beliefs.  Unfortunately I have bills to pay and if I were to take a position that was more to appropriate I wouldn't be able to pay my bills.  Now before you go running off and saying I should cut back on my expenses, I don't have that many.  I don't have cable.  I set my heat at 55.  I have 1 car with car payment and I don't take vacations.  My student loan bills eat up a ton of my income.  I do admit I encumber myself with music, but that's one thing I'm a strong advocate for as it educational and improves quality of life.  Now if only people could appreciate better music more......

[Brian Beneteau]

Those decisions should be pretty obvious.  If you can't continue to live without major surgery then you shouldn't be here.  My own grandfather had 2 triple bypasses before heI died and if it were up to me he wouldn't have had the first one. 

Now as for my living situation, I would gladly take less money to work somewhere that is more in line with my beliefs.  Unfortunately I have bills to pay and if I were to take a position that was more to appropriate I wouldn't be able to pay my bills.  Now before you go running off and saying I should cut back on my expenses, I don't have that many.  I don't have cable.  I set my heat at 55.  I have 1 car with car payment and I don't take vacations.  My student loan bills eat up a ton of my income.  I do admit I encumber myself with music, but that's one thing I'm a strong advocate for as it educational and improves quality of life.  Now if only people could appreciate better music more......

I hope you never have to have a transplant to stay alive. I'm sure you may reconsider your stance on the subject. I don't know you, nor do I know if you have children, but the longer you live it seems the longer you want to continue to live. I agree on the music statement though!

[SMASH]

Smash you and I are in 100% agreement in this. This is a way that the government is taking away our right to choose how we take care of ourselves.  If I don't want to go to the doctor I'm not forced to.  I shouldn't be forced to wear a helmet, or a seatbelt for that matter.  I'm an adult.  I know the consequences. I decide if I take the risk.  I find it interesting that other states have lower insurance rates.  I wonder what Michigan insurance companies are doing with all that money. 

Yep, I do too!!
Will you help find out?

Call you elected official and ask them to support Senate Bill 74 and 75.
Insurance reform is on the table RIGHT NOW!

Don't let these bills get dealt away again!

http://www.michiganvotes.org/Legislation.aspx?ID=127958

http://www.michiganvotes.org/Legislation.aspx?ID=127959

[PXaiver]

I hope you never have to have a transplant to stay alive. I'm sure you may reconsider your stance on the subject. I don't know you, nor do I know if you have children, but the longer you live it seems the longer you want to continue to live. I agree on the music statement though!

I wont get the transplant.  I dont see a doctor.  If i get a terminal illness it will kill me and that is it.  Ivethought this way since I was a child.  Also I wont have children.   The thought has crossed my mind but if I do end up having kids one day it will be by adoption.  I have no need to procreate when there are plenty of children out there who could use a loving parent.  Plus it would be against my core beliefs if I did have kids and I don't want to sound like a total hypocrite....

[Brian Beneteau]

I wont get the transplant.  I dont see a doctor.  If i get a terminal illness it will kill me and that is it.  Ivethought this way since I was a child.  Also I wont have children.   The thought has crossed my mind but if I do end up having kids one day it will be by adoption.  I have no need to procreate when there are plenty of children out there who could use a loving parent.  Plus it would be against my core beliefs if I did have kids and I don't want to sound like a total hypocrite....

OK, so what are your suggestions on music?

[PXaiver]

OK, so what are your suggestions on music?

Well this isn't the topic for that.  In another topic I would gladly would.

[MM1]

OK, so what are your suggestions on music?

   That's funny.   

[John Kopke]

I wont get the transplant.  I dont see a doctor.  If i get a terminal illness it will kill me and that is it.  Ivethought this way since I was a child.

Well Shag have you ever had the experience of facing what could be a life threatening illness? My guess is, since you are young, probably not. I have. Trust me, you won't have as cavalier an attitude when you are "truly" faced with your own mortality.   

[SMASH]

SMASH,

All your concerns are what civil court was made for.

Really?
Michigan's helmet law is so F'ed up you only get two types of judges to rule on it. One says; This is unenforceable as written, Dismissed.
The other says; There is A law, I don't care what it says, shut up and pay up. Got a problem? Appeal it, NEXT.
You're OK with that?
Sounds like you liken to the latter.


Telling someone they should be MORE guilty than another because they pulled in front of you at dusk when they might have though you were a more distant approaching vehicle with a single headlight, or possibly thought you were actually going the speed limit  when you were just a bit above and they thought they had time to safely make the turn.....

They call them accidents for a reason SMASH, and the world is not built in a vaccum.

You're right the world is not built in a vacume, but, sometimes it does SUCK!

No one should be more or less guilty, just found "at fault".

A legislator just tried to amend SB291 and potentially make motorcyclist's 35% AT FAULT simply because they were not wearing a helmet, regardless of who caused the CRASH. So now I'm going to be automatically at fault and have my damages reduced in the Court you just sent me to just because I may not have been wearing a helmet?
Um, no I'm not. Because WE sucessfully had that crap removed from SB291. Yep, we KILLED that amendment!

Let me clarify something for you.
There is this government agency called the NTSB. One of their jobs is to investigate plane "crashes". They, in many instances find that the "crash" was due to pilot error don't they? Not plane accidents, or plane booboos. And in the end they place blame. Utilizing that report many people go to Court and Sue for damages.
Are their awards reduced if the passenger wasn't wearing their seal belt and had their tray table up when their butt went up in flames?
Don't think so.

You take additional risks when you ride a bike.  You are not as easily seen, you are not as equally protected, etc.  YOUR CHOICE!  YOUR RIGHT!

Agreed.

  Don't demand excessively punative punishments for those who injure you in that accident.  And that is exactly what your group of "FREEDOM LOVING" ABATE folks already do, use the force of government to construct laws to protect just your little bit of freedoms, just like any onther bastard special interest group.

What are you talking about?
Excessively punitive punishments?
Like what?
What is a BASTARD SPECIAL INTEREST GROUP?

And me prove it?  How about you "prove it".  Where is your proof that the first jackhole biker without a helmet who is going 95 and has to dump it to avoid that left turning car won't up and hire Sam Bernstien and sue for millions because that little bump on the head turned into exposed brain matter.

Going 95 and "has to dump it"?
If someone is going 95 and any car has an opportunity to turn left in front of the on coming bike there are several issues that only belong to the rider.
One, excessive speed. We alrady have laws for that.
Two, if he has to "dump it" he most likely has no clue how to ride and should not be on a bike to begin with.
Three, if he hits the car it's his fault and will most likely die. One problem solved.
The unfortuneate part is the innocent driver (if he survives the crash) will have to live with the horror of being in a crash like that caused by a moron!
You need to stop focusing on head injuries. In a crash like you described most likely both would die and a helmet would be irrealevent.


  We all know the poor schmo who made the left is getting the ticket, but you and ABATE say "NO!!! NOT ENOUGH!!! JAIL TIME, BAJILLION DOLLAR LAWSUIT!!! HOMELESSNESS, DESTITUTION FOR THAT DRIVER!!!!!!"  You think my way is a feast for trial lawyers?  Wait until the unhelmeted start marching to court and the judgements start piling up.

According to you the "unhelmeted" will already be dead.
Problem solved.

Seems you want your freedom all while being mitigated from your risk.

When did I, or ABATE of Michigan ever say that?
SB291 in many ways mimics all the other States around Michigan. In some ways is more stringent with the insurance requirements. And, you still will not address the fact all the States around Michigan havee lower rates insurance rates than Michigan with almost the same accident and death rates. 5 States and not one of them have people screaming in the streets to adopt a helmet law, NOT ONE.
Why?

  Oh wait there are plenty of other folks who will assume that risk for you aren't there?

Like whom?

See there is a BIG difference between you and I.  I wish freedom and equal opportunity for all.  You want freedom for you and if others have a price to pay so you can exercise your "rights" so be it.... we should all just think like you right?

Nope. My rights come from our Creator. You nor anyone else can take them from me. They are under the common law of men. We now live not under the common law but under statute law. I, and you, my fellow citizen have the right and duty under that law to fight, argue, lobby, and rebel against those BS statutes as we see fit.
Modify and defeat them at all costs, at every turn.
If I don't fight against this one little insignificant law and abolish it who will? If I don't rally support and fight against this violation of this one injustice to my fellow cirtizens who will? And, when you have the same government stepping on your throat who will you rally? Who will you seek out to support you?
Liberty MUST be defended at all costs. All the time. Every time. For when one persons Liberty is sacrificed for the percieved benefit of the collective masses we all lose, and once Liberty is lost is costs blood and fortune to regain it.

See SMASH I speak from actual real world experience, I was rear ended by a biker about 3 years ago on the other side of the state.  Low speed crash but the fella had a "windshield" which cracked right down the center from top to bottom when his head (accompanied by his helmet) came forward and hit the 1/4" thcik top square on.  My point?.... take away the helmet and that guy goes to the hospital for a ton of stitches, add 15 mph and he would have been in the morgue sans the top half of his head.  Now turn it around.... say I had pulled in front of him without seeing him, say he would have broadsided my car at the previously mentioned +15 mph.  Who would have killed him?  ME, not him for neglecting to wear a helmet.... ME!

Again, you assume just because he wasn't wearing a helmet he would have died or been "catostrophically injured".
What is he was wearing a helmet and still died?
All anecdotal BS!
I was whacked from behind at Goddard Rd. and Telegraph by a drunk driver. I was on my bike. He was in a company car owned by Chrysler. I was thrown in front of an ambulance going to a call.
He walked. My bike was damaged. But, I walked away.
Anecdotal BS.

  As a driver I accept that reality, and assume it every time I take my place behind the wheel.  We all share the road together, the fact that you can't comprehend that your CHOICE of vehicular travel puts you at GREATER RISK is on YOU, but it is shared by ME.

That helmet protects more than just the wearer SMASH, and if you want to remove it then fine.  Like I said I don't really want to stop you, but I also don't really want to assume YOUR risk.

If I pay for my insurance per the law you are accepting nothing. Fix our BS No Fault insurance and get the million people on the road that have no insurance paying you have nothing to freak out about.
Here's and idea.
Make the MCCA pay for single vehicle motorcycle accidents and that would even take more of your shoulders.
As it stands now I have to pay the assessment but unless I'm whacked by a car the MCCA is off the hook and we all pay. That is not right.