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[Pax]

     Hmm.  It was my understanding there's a "DOT-approved" clause somewhere in STATE OF MICHIGAN's helmet-rule - if there is no such DOT-approving going on than how can a motorcyclist possibly meet the presumed/supposed mandate??  Or is there more $$$ to be extorted by the STATE in not clarifying that point??!!

[Mike Ingels]

I think motorcyclists should wear helmets.

[Pax]

They are the same ones telling you to shup up and OBEY an un-Constitutional law.

   LAW is outside the purview of the so-called "courts" that we have in existence today: they are all operating in Maritime Jurisdiction which is separate and distinct from the Law of the Land.  As an extension of what I've been saying, however high-handedly, the last several years: the constitution recognized a man's unlimited right to contract - maritime jurisdiction operates under the presumption that you've knowingly, willingly ceded what under the common law is referred to as an unalienable right, which is oxymoronic at best.  They presume you know wtf you're doing when you "sign away" your right to travel the public roads when you sign a contract with the STATE known as a "request for a driver's license."  Unless that presumption is broken, or corrected, violations of the vehicle code are treated as if they were LAW and you're guilty.  Period.  Pay Up.  Obey!  Better yet, make it damn well known to the STATE that you've reserved your lawful rights and then stand on them, for better or for worse.  There is no in-between.

[ell]

     Hmm.  It was my understanding there's a "DOT-approved" clause somewhere in STATE OF MICHIGAN's helmet-rule - if there is no such DOT-approving going on than how can a motorcyclist possibly meet the presumed/supposed mandate??  Or is there more $$$ to be extorted by the STATE in not clarifying that point??!!

Well, there is a DOT standard (not saying what its worth is), and like most other standards, it is left up to the manufacturer to meet these minimums.  But it's not like there is a DOT inspector involved in the manufacuring process.  The standard is contained in the following:

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/get-cfr.cgi?TITLE=49&PART=571&SECTION=218&YEAR=2001&TYPE=PDF

[ell]

I think motorcyclists should wear helmets.

I totally agree with you Mike.  The question is whether it should be mandated by law.  Even the AMA (the other one-Amercian Motorcyclist Association) thinks they are a good idea, but they back rider's choice.  And if their worth was doubted, we probably wouldn't see them mandated by motorcycle racing sanctioning bodies.  But then again, they are a private entity.

[SMASH]

Well, there is a DOT standard (not saying what its worth is), and like most other standards, it is left up to the manufacturer to meet these minimums.  But it's not like there is a DOT inspector involved in the manufacuring process.  The standard is contained in the following:

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/get-cfr.cgi?TITLE=49&PART=571&SECTION=218&YEAR=2001&TYPE=PDF

You can also find the testt procedures at FMVSS218, which translates into FEd Motor Vehicle Standard 218.

If you can stay awake long enough to read through the whole thing you will find that there is nothing in this standard that approves helmets. It is nothing more than a test procedure for what could be a helmet strapped to a head form.

One of our ABATE members had several tickets thrown out up in the City of Wayne. On one occasion he was wearing a bottle cap on his head held on with a rubber band.
What he was wearing met the criteria for the Fed Standard.
A hard outer shell, a soft inner liner, and a retention system.

How are we as consumers supposed to be able to determine what is a compliant helmet at the point of sale when there is no mechanism in place to remove helmets that have failed testing from the shelves?

Testing is voluntary, and not all helmet designs and models are sent in for testing.
The Michigan State Police even sent a memo out to the Posts with the clear statement the "application or absence of a DOT sticker is NOT and indication of a helmets approval".

This memo has been used in several cases as evidance to get helmet tickets thrown out.
If they admitedly don't know, and we as comsumers can't tell, how is the law enforceable?

[Pax]

One of our ABATE members had several tickets thrown out up in the City of Wayne. On one occasion he was wearing a bottle cap on his head held on with a rubber band.
What he was wearing met the criteria for the Fed Standard.
A hard outer shell, a soft inner liner, and a retention system.

FanFriggin'Tastic!  Kudos all-around!!  Who sez you "can't fight city hall?"

[ell]

You can also find the testt procedures at FMVSS218, which translates into FEd Motor Vehicle Standard 218.

Take it easy, SMASH.  All I was pointing out is that there was a standard set by the DOT.  I also stated I doubted its worth.  I also stated that as with many other regulatory standards, it was up to whatever company that slapped the DOT sticker on that lid to meet the standards set forth by the DOT.  I'm not saying the standard would protect a marshmallow falling 3 feet into a stack of 7 of those super pillows they sell on TV.  Some posts seem to suggest that there is no DOT standard when there certainly appears to be one.  Good, bad, or indifferent, it's there.  And I'm still not in favor of the law, but will never ride without the bucket.

[SMASH]

Take it easy, SMASH.  All I was pointing out is that there was a standard set by the DOT.  I also stated I doubted it's worth.  I also stated that as with many other regulatory standards, it was up to whatever company that slapped the DOT sticker on that lid to meet the standards set forth by the DOT.  I'm not saying the standard would protect a marshmallow falling 3 feet into a stack of 7 of those super pillows they sell on TV.  Some posts seem to suggest that there is no DOT standard when there certainly appears to be so.  Good, bad, or indifferent, it's there.  And I'm still not in favor of the law, but will never ride without the bucket.

Ell,
I'm with ya. I knew what you were doing, and I understand your position perfectly.

Sometimes this issue gets all confusing and convoluted with symantics. You know as well as I do how words and their meanings can have a bizarre effect on how the message is understood.

I have had conversations with folks from law enforcement and their views swing all over the place with the helmet law.
From "I don't care if you wear one or not" to, "There is a law on the books, tell it to the judge" to, "Just shut up or I'll take your bike".
We now have some law enforcement that have DOT vision and can determine a helmets "approval" while flying by at 50 mph.

I'm the kind of guy that can't stand all laws like this one. I don't like the cell phones law, the texting law, the seat belt law, the child seat law, etc., etc., etc.
After looking at Public Act 300 of 1949 which contains all of Michigan's motor vehicle law I quickly came to the conclusion we have enough laws on the books already!
What chaps my *** on this one is it is so vague.
It contains three provisions. One for the rider, and two for law enforcement.
The first part we comply with, and the second two, they don't. Yet they stop, detain, and sometimes arrest and sieze property under the color of law.

Even if we win in court, we lose. We are not compensated for our time to go to court to fight this BS law, but the law enforcement are paid to be there. A double hit to the taxpayers. It stinks all the way around.

It's really hard for me to give a crap about the whinning of the motoring public and the seat belt law when they have no interest in righting this injustice to the motorcycling community.

[ell]

SMASH: I wholeheartedly agree we have too many laws on the books, trying to micromanage (for lack of a better term) situations that could be handled by other laws already on the books.  I hate seeing people texting while driving since so many people can't even talk and drive at the same time.  But there are those very broad reckless driving laws that can cover that, but I doubt those allow a citation as a primary offense.  I'm sure a large percentage of law enforcement officers would just as soon see the helmet law go away.  While I got you on the line, do you know if there are any studies/statistics about the types of bike involved in fatals.  Yes, I'm wondering if the proliferation of the sport bikes among younger riders are leading in this unfortunate statistic, being so many accidents have excessive speed as a contributing factor.  Oh, I just sent in my ABATE renewal.  Hopefully one of these days my schedule will be favorable to be able to attend a meeting.

[SMASH]

SMASH: I wholeheartedly agree we have too many laws on the books, trying to micromanage (for lack of a better term) situations that could be handled by other laws already on the books.  I hate seeing people texting while driving since so many people can't even talk and drive at the same time.  But there are those very broad reckless driving laws that can cover that, but I doubt those allow a citation as a primary offense.  I'm sure a large percentage of law enforcement officers would just as soon see the helmet law go away.  While I got you on the line, do you know if there are any studies/statistics about the types of bike involved in fatals.  Yes, I'm wondering if the proliferation of the sport bikes among younger riders are leading in this unfortunate statistic, being so many accidents have excessive speed as a contributing factor.  Oh, I just sent in my ABATE renewal.  Hopefully one of these days my schedule will be favorable to be able to attend a meeting.

I'm not aware of any studies or stats regarding types of bikes. Most of the data I have seen is more towards age groups and licensing.

Again, from what I have seen many involved in crashes do not have an endorsement or have not had any formal training.
The leading age group tends to be men between the ages of 45 and 54.

ABATE has been working with the MRF in an attempt to get funding for a new crash study to be done but in Washington the prevailing attitude is still geared toward safer crashing than crash avoidance and training.

This is a good link to data from Florida.
http://www.flhsmv.gov/hsmvdocs/CS2009.pdf

A helmet choice State and a reduction of crashes and fatalities, go figger?


Here's some stuff from Michigan.
http://www.michigantrafficcrashfacts.org/doc/2009/2009MTCF_vol1.pdf

[Rick Rountree]

If you're a motorcyclist in Michigan that wants the freedom as an adult to chose when and where to wear a helmet, you need to attend the Freedom Rally on Wednesday, September 28, 2011 on the Capitol steps in Lansing at Noon.

Take a day off work, a sick day, or a WTF day and join Michigan's motorcyclists in Lansing to show our solidarity on this important issue for individual liberty!

This is a RAIN or SHINE event.  Hope to see you there.

Repost this on your social networks and let's get the word out!

https://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=119661621470253

[Greg Chamberlain]

Since I am a motorcyclist who thinks the cost of letting people choose when and where to wear a helmet is unacceptable, I will not be attending. Ride safe!

[Baby Hitler]

If you're a motorcyclist in Michigan that wants the freedom as an adult to chose when and where to wear a helmet, you need to attend the Freedom Rally on Wednesday, September 28, 2011 on the Capitol steps in Lansing at Noon.

Take a day off work, a sick day, or a WTF day and join Michigan's motorcyclists in Lansing to show our solidarity on this important issue for individual liberty!

This is a RAIN or SHINE event.  Hope to see you there.

Repost this on your social networks and let's get the word out!

https://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=119661621470253

http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=Lansing+mi

Looks like rain. I would advise wearing a helmet if it IS raining.

Those raindrops can sting your face.

[Tiny]

Helmets keep some of the mess from getting all over the road after an accident.