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[lordfly]

People should be allowed to skip helmets and seatbelts if they pay a "scrape me off the payment" tax for the luxury.

[SMASH]

Since I am a motorcyclist who thinks the cost of letting people choose when and where to wear a helmet is unacceptable, I will not be attending. Ride safe!

What cost would that be?

[SMASH]

People should be allowed to skip helmets and seatbelts if they pay a "scrape me off the payment" tax for the luxury.

Motorcyclist's already pay the tax. Over and over again. It's called the MCCA assessment.
How much more does it have to cost to be FREE?

[livewire]

Hey, the law is there to protect people.

Just like the seat belt law.

I think our government should go even farther, and force car manufacturers to stop making cars with radios in them.  They can be distracting.

It would be safer to have solid rubber tires, too - no more pesky blowouts, and losing control of your vehicle.  Government should regulate that!

They should also make every car with a limited lifespan.  After three years, the engine self-destructs, forcing you to buy a new car.  All those old cars on the road are dangerous, dontcha know.

Bottom line is, I feel SOOOOooo much safer, knowing all those motorcyclists are wearing helmets.  Why does it make ME feel safer, while THEY are the ones wearing the helmets?  Hell if I know, but the government says so, so I have to believe it!   




[dripping sarcasm off]

I used to ride, and always wore a helmet.  I would LOVE to get a bike again, some day.  I miss it.   

I will wear a helmet, whether the law says so or not, but the government should NOT tell us what is best for us.  Helmet laws do NOT benefit society, they are an unnecessary restriction on personal freedoms.

'Nuff said.

[Rick Rountree]

http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=Lansing+mi

Looks like rain. I would advise wearing a helmet if it IS raining.

Those raindrops can sting your face.

Yup...we got wet on the way home.  I don't think you'll get much of an argument about wearing a helmet when its raining from anyone...they're pretty good at stopping rain from stinging ya at any speed...

Fairly good turnout despite the weather...people from all over Michigan turned up, including Yooperland, eh.

After listening to the speeches from the organizers and some of the State Representatives and Senators, we walked over the the House and Senate office building to speak to our reps and ensure they understood that the insurance lobby was lying through their teeth when giving their side of the argument.  Fortunately our side was able to positively refute every bogus study and manufactured statistic the insurance folks came up with.  As one of the State Reps said at the podium on the Capitol steps, (paraphrased) the biggest casualty of this debate over the past few decades has been the truth and that they (the House members) were tired of being misled in the other side's efforts to keep the status quo. 

Truth and individual liberty will soon overcome the tyranny we had been forced to accept as motorcyclists in Michigan for many many years.  Then we can turn our attention to time-tested and proven solutions of increasing motorcycle safety...rider training and driver awareness. 

Let's _prevent_ the accident from happening in the first place...work on fixing the distracted driver problem, i.e., hang up and drive; thumbs on the wheel, not the keyboard; eat your Big Mac in the parking lot, put your make-up on before you leave; read the paper later, etc.

Watch out for left-turning idiots...

[lordfly]

the government should NOT tell us what is best for us.  Helmet laws do NOT benefit society, they are an unnecessary restriction on personal freedoms.

Problem: An unhelmeted motorcyclist deciding to brain himself on the pavement costs taxpayers hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars. How, you say? Well, let's start with the compulsory emergency response. Then the long and drawn out recovery process (and or vegetative state) on Medicare, Medicaid, and/or your insurance plan. And then the years of rehabilitation. And then the inevitable court costs if another vehicle is involved. If we want to get really fancy, how about the hours of the workday wasted sitting on the highway while the cleanup crew is scraping you off the pavement?

your "right" to bounce your skull against the highway when you turn too sharply costs society indirectly. If you want to pay for all that yourself, fine, sign the waiver saying "in event of being unsafe because the government is evil, I waive my rights to be cared for by said government, and agree to be shoveled into the nearest ditch for coyotes".

[Baby Hitler]

Problem: An unhelmeted motorcyclist deciding to brain himself on the pavement costs taxpayers hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars. How, you say? Well, let's start with the compulsory emergency response. Then the long and drawn out recovery process (and or vegetative state) on Medicare, Medicaid, and/or your insurance plan. And then the years of rehabilitation. And then the inevitable court costs if another vehicle is involved. If we want to get really fancy, how about the hours of the workday wasted sitting on the highway while the cleanup crew is scraping you off the pavement?

your "right" to bounce your skull against the highway when you turn too sharply costs society indirectly. If you want to pay for all that yourself, fine, sign the waiver saying "in event of being unsafe because the government is evil, I waive my rights to be cared for by said government, and agree to be shoveled into the nearest ditch for coyotes".

Actually, I think it would be the motorcyclists that HAD helmets on that would more likely be vegetables than those who did not.

And they already have to spend hours and hours prying twisted hunks of metal apart to recover the remains of people from car and truck accidents, so how would this be any different?

[lordfly]

The point of a helmet is to protect your noggin, not turn you into a turnip. it increases your odds of survival and/or escaping without injury. Not wearing one is implicitly saying "I know better than society". Thus, people who think they know better than "that evil government" should have to waive those rights and privileges, such as health care and emergency services when you drive dangerously. It shouldn't be any different if you "decide" to "exercise your rights" by, say, not wearing your seatbelt, or chugging a fifth of vodka before driving.

I don't care what people do in their homes, as long as it doesn't affect me. People scraping their faces against the pavement because they think government is stupid affects me in a myriad of ways.

[PXaiver]

Coming from someone who got in 2the motorcycle accidents before deciding it was safer for me to get a convertible you're wrong Lordfly.  With each accident the EMT got called.  When I refused medical assistance they said it they were required to assess me.  I knew I was fine but they didn't believe me and wasted tax payer dollars.  I was wearing a helmet both times and neither time did I hit my head.  But I can tell you this, if I ever did get in an accident at 70mph I would not want to be wearing a helmet.  Scrape me off the pavement.  Inconvenience a few motorists.  I have to put up with enough idiot drivers not using their turn signal and passing on the right.  They cause more accidents than helmet-less riders.


Fly I'm just wondering have you ever rolled down the road in a drop top with no seatbelt on doing 100mph while driving with your knees and throwing your hands in the air like you're on a roller coaster?  Its quite a liberating feeling.


For the record I did that on an open stretch of freeway at dawn one Sunday morning.  No other cars were around at 5am....

[SMASH]

Problem: An unhelmeted motorcyclist deciding to brain himself on the pavement costs taxpayers hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars. How, you say?

 Well, let's start with the compulsory emergency response.

Covered by insurance.

 Then the long and drawn out recovery process (and or vegetative state) on Medicare, Medicaid, and/or your insurance plan.

Again, covered by insurance.
Do you want to take a stab at explaining all the "closed head" injuries created by helmets?
Care to explain how the State of Illinois, which has no helmet requirement what so ever, has a lower death rate than Michigan?

 And then the years of rehabilitation. And then the inevitable court costs if another vehicle is involved.

Again, covered by insurance. Thanks to the voters of Michigan and the MCCA playing "Injury Reward Roulette". There is your society in action at motorcyclists expense.

 If we want to get really fancy, how about the hours of the workday wasted sitting on the highway while the cleanup crew is scraping you off the pavement?

Really?

your "right" to bounce your skull against the highway when you turn too sharply costs society indirectly.

Here your ignorance of this issue comes shinning through.

 If you want to pay for all that yourself, fine, sign the waiver saying "in event of being unsafe because the government is evil, I waive my rights to be cared for by said government, and agree to be shoveled into the nearest ditch for coyotes".

I'll sign that waiver, right after you sign the waiver of prosecution against any motorcyclist, or their family, who takes a ball bat to the knee caps and elbows of every driver who causes a bike crash.
Fair enough?

[SMASH]

The point of a helmet is to protect your noggin, not turn you into a turnip.

While it may be the purpose of a helmet, again, would you care to take a stab at explaining all the closed head injuries created by helmets?
I have been in the motorcycle industry for 27 years and not one helmet manufacturer will take this one on.
When asked directly all you get is a smile and a card to their lawyers office.

 it increases your odds of survival and/or escaping without injury.

Escaping with out injury?
Do you even ride?


Odds of survival?
If you meet a car in an intersection at 35mph your helmet is irrealevent to the impact injuries to the rest of your body.
Blunt force trauma to the chest or abdomen are much more life threatening than a head injury.

 Not wearing one is implicitly saying "I know better than society".


You're damn right we do!
Motorcyclists make up a minority of the driving public and yet you people that don't even ride think you know and can tell us what is best for us.
How dare you?
You use the organized MOB of the majority in this Democracy under the "color of law" to put the boot of the goverment on the throats of other wise law abiding citizens going peacfully about their lives.
How dare you?
You infringe on our liberties at OUR expense!
You dictate to us how much we must pay while at the same time are the cause of most of the pain and suffering brought TO US while we are simply going about our business.
You complain, in ignorance, about the cost of injuries and rehabilitation that you drivers in many cases create. Yet, care not about the ways and means and methods to avoid the crash in the first place.
You most likely have never read MCL257.658. You have no regard for the fact that the law is flawed and according to many judges "unenforceable". You don't care that your fellow citizens are having their cash extracted from them using this flawed law.



 Thus, people who think they know better than "that evil government" should have to waive those rights and privileges, such as health care and emergency services when you drive dangerously. It shouldn't be any different if you "decide" to "exercise your rights" by, say, not wearing your seatbelt, or chugging a fifth of vodka before driving.

I don't care what people do in their homes, as long as it doesn't affect me.

It sure seems like you do. You want to dictate to me what to do with my body. What difference does it make where my body is at the time?

 People scraping their faces against the pavement because they think government is stupid affects me in a myriad of ways.

Really?
How?

[T-M-T]

Again, covered by insurance. Thanks to the voters of Michigan and the MCCA playing "Injury Reward Roulette". There is your society in action at motorcyclists expense.

Motorcyclists SHOULD pay higher insurance rates:

http://trafficsafety.org/safety/sharing/motorcycle/motor-facts/motor-injuries-fatalities

Motorcycles are the most dangerous type of motor vehicle to drive.  These vehicles are involved in fatal crashes at a rate of 35.0 per 100 million miles of travel, compared with a rate of 1.7 per 100 million miles of travel for passenger cars.

Motorcyclists were 35 times more likely than passenger car occupants to die in a crash in 2006, per vehicle mile traveled, and 8 times more likely to be injured.
 
Although motorcycles account for only 2% of vehicles on the road, they make up more than 10% of all crashes.

Motorcycle fatalities have more than doubled in 10 years to 4,810 in 2006. Helmets saved the lives of 1,658 motorcyclists in 2006—and could have saved an additional 752 lives if all riders had worn helmets compliant with federal safety standards.

Some 104,000 motorcycles were involved in crashes in 2006, including property damage-only crashes.

Approximately 80% of motorcycle crashes injure or kill a motorcycle rider, while only 20% of passenger car crashes injure or kill a driver or passenger in their vehicle.

In 2006, 37% of all motorcyclists involved in fatal crashes were speeding, compared to 23% for passenger car drivers, 19% for light-truck drivers, and 8% for large-truck drivers.

[lordfly]

words

So, you are implying that wearing a helmet is actually MORE dangerous than not wearing a helmet? Is there actual data to verify this, or is this just a convenient plank for an anti-government screed?

What would you prefer, death or a closed-head injury?


Secondly, end this "HOW DARE YOU" nonsense. I'm an exceedingly cautious driver. I've never been in an accident, I drive in the slow lane on the highways, my turn signal is on early, I stay off the ******* cell phone until I'm pulled over. I get out of cyclist's ways if I even catch a hint of them in my mirror. I don't need to be lectured at like I'm some sort of goose-stepping fascist because you happen to think helmets are Satan's gift to Hitler.

[livewire]

your "right" to bounce your skull against the highway when you turn too sharply costs society indirectly. If you want to pay for all that yourself, fine, sign the waiver saying "in event of being unsafe because the government is evil, I waive my rights to be cared for by said government, and agree to be shoveled into the nearest ditch for coyotes".

Hmmm...  I never knew such a document existed!  I would sign it in a heartbeat!

I don't doubt that wearing a helmet would slightly increase my chances of survival in the case of an accident.  But that is MY decision to make.

Where do you draw the line?  As long as it doesn't affect you, go ahead and legislate away, right?  WRONG!

I think we should make a law saying that YOU have to wear a helmet INSIDE your car, when traveling more than 50 miles per hour.  Stunt drivers, while performing standard maneuvers, do it all the time.  MUST be a reason for it, so let's make EVERYBODY do it!  How about if people drive those little pregnant roller skates?  What are they called?  Smart cars?  Sure don't seem too damn smart, driving one of those things, zipping down the freeway, riding inside a shopping cart.  Not much more protection than riding a bike, so THEY need to wear helmets, too!

Where do YOU want that line drawn, Lordfly?  Is it the number of wheels on the vehicle that makes the difference?  Bull****.  Driving one of those little four wheeled bugs is NO safer than driving a motorcycle.

I don't care what people do ... as long as it doesn't affect me.

I see.  So, forcing motorcycle riders to wear a helmet is okay with you, but forcing YOU to wear a helmet when going faster than 50 MPH in your car is going too far, right?  Do you deny that you would be safer, wearing a helmet while driving your car (no matter WHAT the car is)?

[SMASH]

So, you are implying that wearing a helmet is actually MORE dangerous than not wearing a helmet?

In many instances, yes.


 Is there actual data to verify this, or is this just a convenient plank for an anti-government screed?

Look a Florida's DOT numbers as an example.

What would you prefer, death or a closed-head injury?


Death.


Secondly, end this "HOW DARE YOU" nonsense.

No; It's not nonsense.

 I'm an exceedingly cautious driver. I've never been in an accident, I drive in the slow lane on the highways, my turn signal is on early, I stay off the ******* cell phone until I'm pulled over. I get out of cyclist's ways if I even catch a hint of them in my mirror.

Bravo! A couple hundred million more of you and helmets would not be a issue!

I don't need to be lectured at like I'm some sort of goose-stepping fascist because you happen to think helmets are Satan's gift to Hitler.

While you may feel you don't need a lecture your position says other wise.
Fascist is not the right application here at all, citizen is more than adequate.
See, if this were still a Republic the rights of motorcyclists under the law would be protected as individuals. Here in the Democracy the MOB makes the rules and the minority must OBEY. Collectivism at it's shinning best!
Right here directly I will be drafting a post to show just what we are up against.