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[livewire]

So, no one is willing to defend the OWS crowd now?  I didn't post that article, Fluffy did, and it's a perfect example of how these protesters don't have a clue what they are even protesting, or why.

Are any of you willing to step up and openly support what they did in Oakland, CA, or Philadelphia, PA?


Or are some of you starting to figure out that these people are truly nuts?

Or are they just misguided?

Bad upbringing?

Didn't eat their breakfast?  What?

OAKLAND, Calif. (AP) - Thousands of Wall Street protesters marched in the streets of Oakland on Wednesday as they geared up with labor unions to picket banks, take over foreclosed homes and vacant buildings and disrupt operations at the nation's fifth-busiest port.

The protests marked an escalation from previous demonstrations as they went beyond boisterous rallies at park encampments and took aim at a major hub of commerce, such as the Port of Oakland. Organizers say they want to halt "the flow of capital" at the port.

The union representing port workers said it cannot ask members to participate in the protests because of clauses in its contract, potentially minimizing any disruptions.

Demonstrators as well as city and business leaders expressed optimism that the widely anticipated "general strike" would be a peaceful event for a city that became a rallying point last week after an Iraq War veteran was injured in clashes between protesters and police.

Embattled Oakland Mayor Jean Quan, who has been criticized for her handling of the protests, said in a statement that she supported the goals of the protest movement that began in New York City a month ago and spread to dozens of cities across the country.

"Police Chief (Howard) Jordan and I are dedicated to respecting the right of every demonstrator to peacefully assemble, but it is our duty to prioritize public safety," she said.

Protesters planned to hold rallies across the country in solidarity.

In Philadelphia, police arrested about a dozen protesters who were sitting peacefully inside the lobby of the headquarters of cable giant Comcast. Officers moved in after they refused to leave. The protesters were handcuffed and led into police vans as supporters cheered.

In New York, about 100 military veterans marched in uniform through Manhattan to protest what they called police brutality against the Iraq War veteran injured in Oakland.

Students from colleges in Boston and union workers, for example, were expected to march on local Bank of America offices, the Harvard Club and the statehouse to protest the nation's burgeoning student debt crisis.

They say total student debt in the country exceeds credit card debt, increases by $1 million every six minutes and will reach $1 trillion this year, potentially undermining the economy.

Along with protesting financial institutions that many within the movement blame for high unemployment and the foreclosure crisis, supporters of the Oakland events are expanding their message to include school closures, waning union benefits and cuts to social services.

Nurse, teacher and other worker unions are taking part in the protests, and Oakland is letting city workers use vacation or other paid time to take part in the general strike. About 5 percent of city workers took the day off Wednesday, according to City Administrator Deanna Santana.

About 360 Oakland teachers didn't show up for work, or roughly 18 percent of the district's 2,000 teachers, said Oakland Unified School District spokesman Troy Flint. The district has been able to get substitute teachers for most classrooms, and where that wasn't possible children were sent to other classrooms, he said.

The day's events in Oakland began with a rally outside City Hall that by midmorning drew more than 1,000 people who were spilling into the streets and disrupting the downtown commute.

About three dozen adults with toddlers and school-age children formed a "children's brigade, gathering at Oakland Public Library for a stroller march to the protest in downtown Oakland. Demonstrators handed out signs written as if in a children's crayon that read "Generation 99% Occupying Our Future," which the marchers attached to their baby backpacks and strollers.

The protests were expected to culminate with a march to the Port of Oakland, where organizers said the goal would be to stop work there for the 7 p.m. shift. Organizers say they want to halt "the flow of capital" at the port.

It is the only West coast port that exports more than it imports, according to port spokesman Issac Kos-Read. About 55 percent of the goods it handles are for export. Much of California's agricultural production flows through to foreign markets, including wines from Napa and Sonoma valleys, fruits and nuts from the Central Valley and rice from farms near Sacramento.

About 70 percent of the port's trade is with Asia. Seventeen percent is domestic and military cargo, 10 percent is European trade. The port imports electronics, apparel and manufacturing equipment, mostly from Asia. The port also handles imported cars and car parts from Asian carmakers such as Toyota, Honda, Nissan and Hyundai.

On Wednesday morning, the port was operating as normal and most longshoremen had shown up for work, according to port and union officials.

Craig Merrilees, spokesman for the International Longshore and Warehouse Union, said its members were not being called to strike. The union cannot sanction a strike in support of Occupy Oakland under the terms of its contract, he said.

"The general message is that the ILWU and other unions are supporting the concerns raised by Occupy Oakland and the Occupy movement to speak up for the 99 percent and against the corporate greed that is wrecking America," Merrilees said.

Other demonstrators, some affiliated with established community groups, said they planned to target banks, convene a dancing flash mob, sponsor music and street parties, march with elderly residents and people with disabilities to the California state office building, hold youth teach-ins.

Because of the activities' free-flowing and unpredictable nature, city leaders said they had no idea how many people would take part or how much a disruption they could pose to the daily routines of residents and workers.

City spokeswoman Karen Boyd said the government "will be open for business as usual" and was encouraging businesses to do the same.

The president of the police officers' union said he was worried officers were being scapegoated by Quan and "set to fail" if Wednesday's actions got unruly.

"We're going to be seen as the establishment, and it's not fair to the police, it's not fair to anyone," Oakland Police Officer's Association President Sgt. Dom Arotzarena said.

On Oct. 25, police acting at the request of the city's administrator, who reports to the mayor, were asked to clear the protesters' campsite during an early morning raid. A confrontation with marchers protesting the raid followed that night, and an Iraq War veteran suffered a fractured skull and brain injury when officers moved in with tear gas, flash grenades and beanbag projectiles.

Quan allowed protesters to reclaim the plaza outside City Hall the next day. At least six dozen tents and a kitchen buzzing with donated food have been erected on the spot since then, while the crackdown has galvanized anti-Wall Street events elsewhere and made politicians in other cities think again about interfering with their local encampments.

Occupy LA, a monthlong 475-tent encampment around Los Angeles City Hall, is planning a 5:30 p.m. march and rally through downtown LA's financial district to express solidarity with the Oakland general strike and to protest police brutality.

"It was obvious to the entire world that the acts perpetrated against Oakland occupation were acts of police brutality," said Julia Wallace, spokeswoman for the Committee to End Police Brutality at Occupy LA.

Unions representing city government workers, Oakland's public school teachers, community college instructors, and University of California, Berkeley teaching assistants all have endorsed the daylong work stoppage and encouraged their members to participate.

"It's sort of a realization that a lot of people are having that we've all been fighting our own issues, but really, it's all related, it's all the same issue," Oakland Education Association Secretary Steve Neat said.

The Oakland Metropolitan Chamber of Commerce said in a letter to the mayor Tuesday in which President Joseph Haraburda expressed concern for "the mothers and children, and even grandmothers, who plan to come to Oakland to conduct their regular business" and for business owners who "must face a day of uncertainty" if they do not close for the strike.

"We want to be clear, should Wednesday's planned protests go awry, someone will need to be held accountable," Haraburda said.

http://apnews.myway.com//article/20111102/D9QOQLPG0.html

[PXaiver]

I fully support these protests and understand their message.  They want higher taxes on the top1% of earners and education to be more adorable.   I'm 100% behind these people for standing up for what they believe.  If I could get time off to join the Occupy Detroit movement I would.

[Monique]

So, no one is willing to defend the OWS crowd now?  I didn't post that article, Fluffy did, and it's a perfect example of how these protesters don't have a clue what they are even protesting, or why.

Are any of you willing to step up and openly support what they did in Oakland, CA, or Philadelphia, PA?


Or are some of you starting to figure out that these people are truly nuts?

Or are they just misguided?

Bad upbringing?

Didn't eat their breakfast?  What?

I have no interest in getting into a peeing contest about this, but yes, I still support them entirely. I didn't respond because I think that folks with your strong opinion that these people are  simply "loony" are getting one-sided information from rabid talk shows and aren't hearing the real message from the movement.

They interrupted the shipping port for a few hours, then peacefully returned to the plaza in Oakland. The handfuls of people who staged a peaceful sit in at Comcast probably chose them because they are one of the top 100 largest US corporations and a media outlet. People are doing these things to get the full attention of corporate America, whose leaders seem to think this will all go away when the snow flies. The protesters are peaceful (for the most part) even in the face of police brutality and are exercising their American rights, just as Americans always have in order to effect mass change when something's not working right.

Why are you folks so threatened by these demonstrators, the protests, and the calls for change?   


**ADDED: I'm just reading about the overnight violence in Oakland. That part I do NOT support. I still believe that the majority of demonstrators are intentionally peaceful.

[ussoccer26]

So, no one is willing to defend the OWS crowd now?  I didn't post that article, Fluffy did, and it's a perfect example of how these protesters don't have a clue what they are even protesting, or why.

Are any of you willing to step up and openly support what they did in Oakland, CA, or Philadelphia, PA?


Or are some of you starting to figure out that these people are truly nuts?

Or are they just misguided?

Bad upbringing?

Didn't eat their breakfast?  What?

They didn't eat their breakfast, and their country is being systematically dismantled before their eyes, so that is a bad combo. As for shutting down the hub, they wanted to send a message to all the money making machines out there that OWS will hit you in the pocketbook.

I completely stand behind OWS even when it comes to the violence between the police and protesters. I would be pissed too if I were protesting peacefully and then cops corralled me into a small space. I guess the way I look at is, if the police were not using intimidation and unwarranted physical force then protesters wouldn't be violent. It's cause and effect. If I'm standing there exercising my rights and a cop comes up and starts beating the **** out of me I'm going to fight back! That's self defense damn it! These protesters have shown they are peaceful, when they are arrested they do not resist yet everyday I go on youtube and see a new video of a peaceful protest or getting the **** beat out of them when they aren't even resisting arrest!!! And you wonder why they throw rocks and shoot fireworks at riot squads? They don't want they police anywhere near them!

[old salt]

As for shutting down the hub, they wanted to send a message to all the money making machines out there that OWS will hit you in the pocketbook.

.....and then what? 

Cause when you say 'hit you in the pocketbook', that's me and you and the public, not the big corps.  And the costs associated with vandalism, police OT, business interruptions.......they all get passed on to you and me too.

While my 401k loses value, Congress gets wealthier. 

"Members of Congress had a collective net worth of more than $2 billion in 2010, a nearly 25 percent increase over the 2008 total, according to a Roll Call analysis of Members' financial disclosure forms.

Nearly 90 percent of that increase is concentrated in the 50 richest Members of Congress."

http://www.rollcall.com/issues/57_51/And-Congress-Rich-Get-Richer-209907-1.html?pos=hftxt

I guess protesting against politicians would make you a tea partier, and so many of these losers aren't going to bite the hand that feeds them.

[Monique]

I'm guessing that those 50 wealthy members of Congress aren't getting rich on their politician paycheck. I'm guessing they have their hands in the wealthiest corporations somehow, wouldn't you say?

"...and then what?" Who knows for sure? This isn't an implementation project with defined goals and milestones, it's cultural evolution in real time. Human nature unfolding. It will be fascinating to watch how the movement adapts to the weather and the inevitable increase in pushback.

Alan Ziobrowski, a professor of real estate at Georgia State University, has produced studies of Congressional investment patterns indicating that lawmakers in both chambers tend to fare better in their investment portfolios than the average American, in part because "[t]here is no doubt in my mind that they are trading in some way on information that is there."

But he also points out that the Membership of Congress has turned over since 2008, making it difficult to compare wealth over time. "You've got different people," he said.

[old salt]

I'm guessing that those 50 wealthy members of Congress aren't getting rich on their politician paycheck. I'm guessing they have their hands in the wealthiest corporations somehow, wouldn't you say?

I sure would say.  Politicians are immune to insider trading, so who's above the law? 

"...and then what?" Who knows for sure? This isn't an implementation project with defined goals and milestones, it's cultural evolution in real time. Human nature unfolding. It will be fascinating to watch how the movement adapts to the weather and the inevitable increase in pushback.

Who knows for sure?  Well, I know that these additional costs are going to get passed on to the public, at least the ones who are working.

Cultural evolution in real time. Human nature unfolding.  Social studies speak.  Again, they're going after the wrong group.

[Monique]

Social studies speak. 

At least we agree that politicians and corporate America are corrupt. But they're one and the same group. What other group is there?

[old salt]

At least we agree that politicians and corporate America are corrupt. But they're one and the same group. What other group is there?

Crony capitalism at it's finest.  They may act the same, but one can be voted out of office.  The other.......not so much.  And violence isn't going to change anything.

But hey, I'm just a radical right wing extremist tea partier, without the STD, rapes, pillaging, fires, tatoos and piercings.  Maybe if I was in college today, I'd be joining them to be cool.  But unlike the old days, when we were protesting Vietnam, today's message is far from coherent.

[Monique]

It's not coherent or you're not listening?

They may act the same, but one can be voted out of office.  The other.......not so much.

Then the group that can be voted out of office should be held accountable for reforming and regulating the other half of the equation. Companies should be encouraged through tax breaks and other financial incentives to invest in the domestic economy to provide jobs, training, apprenticeships, and community projects. Companies that heavily invest jobs in foreign economies should be penalized with additional taxes and fees. The 1% have sold our standard of living to increase their bottom line. They've gone too far and something has to change.

It's in everyone's best interest to keep the middle class productive, healthy, non-violent, and spending.

[blue2]

Monique,  I don't think the politicians and corporations get the fact that they need a healthy middle class to keep buying all the cars and TV's.  The politicians think the government can buy the stuff and give it to the people to keep them voting for them and the corporations don't care one way or the other as long as someone pays for their stuff they make off shore.   Before everyone realizes it everything will come crashing down.  The only way to solve this is take the money out of politics.  No more campaign contributions and no more lobbyists.

[old salt]

It's not coherent or you're not listening?
Then the group that can be voted out of office should be held accountable for reforming and regulating the other half of the equation. Companies should be encouraged through tax breaks and other financial incentives to invest in the domestic economy to provide jobs, training, apprenticeships, and community projects. Companies that heavily invest jobs in foreign economies should be penalized with additional taxes and fees. The 1% have sold our standard of living to increase their bottom line. They've gone too far and something has to change.

It's in everyone's best interest to keep the middle class productive, healthy, non-violent, and spending.

I have no qualms with your statements above.  I'm just not sure why you put so much effort into this so called 1%, when there isn't anything that can be done by protesting. Increasing the bottom line is their job, period.  If CEO's are to be held accountable, become a shareholder.  Then you can have a vote, just like you have a vote today for our elected officals.  And there's always one of my personal favorites....boycott, whether by yourself or as a group. It doesn't cost anything, and hurts no one (except maybe the employees).  And it does produce results.

"Companies should be encouraged" and "should be penalized".  All well and good, so why don't the crooks in DC pass laws to do that?

GE is breaking ground on a new factory in Alabama. And, unlike Boeing, which tried to build a factory in a right-to-work-state, the National Labor Relations Board hasn't uttered a peep.

So who's gone too far?

[Monique]

I have no qualms with your statements above.  I'm just not sure why you put so much effort into this so called 1%, when there isn't anything that can be done by protesting 1. Increasing the bottom line is their job, period.  If CEO's are to be held accountable, become a shareholder 2.  Then you can have a vote, just like you have a vote today for our elected officals.  And there's always one of my personal favorites....boycott, whether by yourself or as a group. It doesn't cost anything, and hurts no one (except maybe the employees).  And it does produce results.

"Companies should be encouraged" and "should be penalized".  All well and good, so why don't the crooks in DC pass laws to do that?

GE is breaking ground on a new factory in Alabama. And, unlike Boeing, which tried to build a factory in a right-to-work-state, the National Labor Relations Board hasn't uttered a peep.

So who's gone too far? 3

1. As I said before, protesting has already accomplished raising awareness to a global level, initiating debate on many important to critical issues, and sowing the seeds of cultural change. (more Social Studies speak!  ) They've started a movement and there's no going back now. I'd call that an enormous achievement!

2. How can someone become a shareholder if they're too poor to keep their house or feed their kids? That's no longer an option for most people. No, real change has to happen at the top where companies can no longer exploit the people of this country and lawmakers are not permitted to be purchased by special interest groups and lobbyists. Elected officials should be working for their constituents and businesses should be playing by the rules.

3. I think the government and corporate America went too far when they declared that corporations have the same rights as human citizens and can donate unrestrained to their favorite political players. It was the tipping point for me, anyhow. That's outrageous and blatant corruption.

[Baby Hitler]

1. As I said before, protesting has already accomplished raising awareness to a global level, initiating debate on many important to critical issues, and sowing the seeds of cultural change. (more Social Studies speak!  ) They've started a movement and there's no going back now. I'd call that an enormous achievement!

2. How can someone become a shareholder if they're too poor to keep their house or feed their kids? That's no longer an option for most people. No, real change has to happen at the top where companies can no longer exploit the people of this country and lawmakers are not permitted to be purchased by special interest groups and lobbyists. Elected officials should be working for their constituents and businesses should be playing by the rules.

3. I think the government and corporate America went too far when they declared that corporations have the same rights as human citizens and can donate unrestrained to their favorite political players. It was the tipping point for me, anyhow. That's outrageous and blatant corruption.

Too much logic in that post.

[LetsGoWings]

And you wonder why they throw rocks and shoot fireworks at riot squads? They don't want they police anywhere near them!

That is flawless logic. Do something extremely illegal and the cops will leave you alone. 

Also, even though they have their right to peacefully protest, they also have to obey the laws set in place by the city/state they are protesting in. If the city/state has a rule that says they need to be out of the park after 10pm(or any other time or any no tents allowed or no relieving themselves) they are supposed to leave the park at that time or face possible police intervention.

 It is a relatively simple concept protest peacefully and obey the laws and the cops should leave you alone. I would feel bad for them if they were doing this, but they are not for the most part.


407.  Whenever two or more persons assemble together to do an
unlawful act, or do a lawful act in a violent, boisterous, or
tumultuous manner, such assembly is an unlawful assembly.



408.  Every person who participates in any rout or unlawful assembly
is guilty of a misdemeanor.

That is how California defines an unlawful assembly. From what I have read it seems like at times Oakland has been an unlawful assembly which gives the police the right to break it up.