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lordfly

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Re: Ron Paul Supporters
« Reply #30 on: January 14, 2012, 01:22:06 AM »

Well withdrawing from the UN... there is ONE good idea.  You might be amazed how quickly we stop getting involved in as many crap sandwiches that we do.

You are attributing malice to an organization that hasn't done anything except nearly eradicate polio.

The UN is our puppy, not the other way around; leaving it would not make us any less the world's policemen.

Besides, no one would buy Coca Cola if we didn't threaten to bomb them every once in a while.
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lordfly

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Re: Ron Paul Supporters
« Reply #31 on: January 14, 2012, 01:28:03 AM »

First of all the congress will be gridlocked regardless of who is president. Secondly as JBS points out, the UN is a giant waste of time and money. Time to put the U.S. first when it comes to certain things. Instead of building U.N. infrastructure we could be fixing ours! Third, if sound money(gold standard) is the biggest issue you have with Ron Paul than quit sweating. Again there is no way in hell congress would ever vote a gold standard back in. If they ever did give it a thought I'm sure they would tweak and enhance it in a way that it wouldn't destroy the economy. Your acting like the president can just put anything into law that he wants. Maybe your just used to the two supreme dictators that have been in office for the last 11 years.

My issues with Paul are robust - aside from leaving the UN and moving to a gold standard, a lot of his policies are just handwaving and laissez-faire. Almost everything the government does would simply.... not work under him. Sure sure, President Ron will get rid of YOUR favorite government boondoggle, but he'd also get rid of the parts of government you enjoy, too. And in true Ayn Randian fashion, he'd make sure the powerful get more powerful, and turn is into a Social Darwin dystopia. Something which, no matter how smart you think you are, you would lose.

He's as charismatic as a dead fish, his policies are half baked (shut down EVERYTHING! FREE MARKET UBER ALLES!), his economic ideas are not based in reality.

He's also not going to win the nomination, ever. For one, because he's rabidly anti-"establishment". For two, his voting base are disaffected college-grad white males; not terribly diverse. For three, he has very little in the way of political infrastructure to actually get elected anywhere. Sure, he has those "money bombs" which get him things like iPads for free, but a pile of cash does you nothing if you don't have the political groundwork laid to spend it.

I'm not sweating Paul at all - I'm more worried that people think his ideas are the second coming of Christ, when it's really just a crystallized "me first and screw you" philosophy that resonates with people who don't like the idea of sharing.
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Pax

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Re: Ron Paul Supporters
« Reply #32 on: January 14, 2012, 08:22:44 AM »

C'mon Pax... you know you are a supporter...

     As an outsider watching yet another dog-and-pony show for POTUS rest assured that it can be entertaining to me as well as the disgusting smokescreen it actually is for the rest of you. Although I have yet to hear much of anything out of Ron Paul's campaign that I would disagree with who should/will "win" that particular job title is of no consequence to me. Personally the only "support" I have to offer is for those who also anticipate the relegation of your US so-called society to the dustbin of history.
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TwicePipes

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Re: Ron Paul Supporters
« Reply #33 on: January 14, 2012, 10:02:40 AM »

How do you all feel about Mr. Liberty's position on the Texas Sonogram Law?
Maybe Mr. Paul can add an amendment to that law to force women to have toothpicks used to hold open their eye lids during that procedure, seeing how he hates intrusive government so much.
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Lanky279

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Re: Ron Paul Supporters
« Reply #34 on: January 14, 2012, 12:41:37 PM »

My issues with Paul are robust - aside from leaving the UN and moving to a gold standard, a lot of his policies are just handwaving and laissez-faire. Almost everything the government does would simply.... not work under him.
What do you think would not work under him? Difficult to discuss a candidates' position when it's described in vague terms and general statements.
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jbs49238

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Re: Ron Paul Supporters
« Reply #35 on: January 14, 2012, 02:01:47 PM »

You are attributing malice to an organization that hasn't done anything except nearly eradicate polio.

The UN is our puppy, not the other way around; leaving it would not make us any less the world's policemen.

Besides, no one would buy Coca Cola if we didn't threaten to bomb them every once in a while.


You are right we are not the UN's puppy... we are its Pit Bull that has been trained to fight for it whenever it asks.  The UN makes its decisions and then sends our boys in to fight.
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lordfly

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Re: Ron Paul Supporters
« Reply #36 on: January 14, 2012, 02:56:36 PM »

You are right we are not the UN's puppy... we are its Pit Bull that has been trained to fight for it whenever it asks.  The UN makes its decisions and then sends our boys in to fight.

Wrong; the UN is an American invention. The whole process, if it works, is tilted in our favor; we also have enormous influence due to our veto power by dint of being on the Security Council. We also pay its rent and a significant portion of its total budget.

It's a very clever tool for western civilization (presently led by the US) to exert geopolitical influence on the rest of the world. If only it worked like it was supposed to. Which it doesn't, not at all, which is why whenever I hear breathless conspiracy theories about the UN taking over the US I start giggling.
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Baggins

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Re: Ron Paul Supporters
« Reply #37 on: January 14, 2012, 03:07:35 PM »


Besides, no one would buy Coca Cola if we didn't threaten to bomb them every once in a while.


I think you are underestimating the power of CocaCola, it is quite refreshing...
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jbs49238

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Re: Ron Paul Supporters
« Reply #38 on: January 14, 2012, 03:32:24 PM »

Wrong; the UN is an American invention. The whole process, if it works, is tilted in our favor; we also have enormous influence due to our veto power by dint of being on the Security Council. We also pay its rent and a significant portion of its total budget.

It's a very clever tool for western civilization (presently led by the US) to exert geopolitical influence on the rest of the world. If only it worked like it was supposed to. Which it doesn't, not at all, which is why whenever I hear breathless conspiracy theories about the UN taking over the US I start giggling.


Wow so not much of your post is a ringing endorsement for the UN in the first place, I was waiting for a positive other than it assisted in eradicating polio (which would have happened anyways).  It isn't a new creation... it doesn't work, and it is a financial black hole that we ship cash down in order to try and fashion the rest of the world into our mold.  Maybe we should mind our own business, let the world's governments see to their own affairs seeking our counsel and wisdom when they see fit, and take that very substantial amount of money we throw at "geopolitical influence" and fulfill the promises that our government has made its citizens?
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lordfly

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Re: Ron Paul Supporters
« Reply #39 on: January 14, 2012, 04:36:05 PM »

Maybe we should mind our own business, let the world's governments see to their own affairs seeking our counsel and wisdom when they see fit, and take that very substantial amount of money we throw at "geopolitical influence" and fulfill the promises that our government has made its citizens?

If we were Canada, your comment would have merit. Unfortunately the US has an empire to mind, and anyone who says we should shrink back and ignore everyone else in the world is going to get a very public drubbing.

The US was isolationist for a good part of its history. Sure, we had the Monroe Doctrine, but even that was just a reactionary response to European meddling in our hemisphere. We had Manifest Destiny to keep us occupied. Once we hit the other side of the continent, we fought amongst ourselves, industrialized a bit, and then chilled out, preferring our Gilded Age to the messiness of empire (you could make an argument for the abortive attempt at the turn of the 20th century with Cuba and the Philippines and the Spanish American War, but that didn't do much).

Then our commercial ships started getting sunk by Ze Germans, and then Ze Germans decided to get cheeky with the Mexicans with the Zimmerman Telegram.

After that, we came out fighting, kicked some ***, and went home, leave us alone, thanks.

Then the Japanese bombed our Navy, seemingly unprovoked.... and we went apeshit. And we never stopped going apeshit, because if we did, the entire economy would stop working. So, we steamrolled everyone economically in WW2, loaned money to Europe after that (and put them in our pockets for good measure), got involved in various regional conflicts, got frisky with the Soviets, and continued along empire building and hegemony during the cold war period.

Then the cold war ended, and.... well, we have to be doing SOMETHING with all this military equipment. So, we became the world's policeman, partially because we're damn good at it (our military, as far as damage potential, is in a class of its own), and partially because it's supremely good for business.

Then 9/11 happened as a result of our constant empire building and meddling, and, well.... gotta keep that military equipment busy somehow.

So now we're peering at Iran, peering at North Korea, peering at Pakistan, peering at Mexico.... gotta keep them in line, after all.

the entire existence of the US is based on corporate imperialism and empire building, and has been that way since, arguably, the end of world war 2.

We can argue whether any of that's good or bad, but it doesn't matter much; anyone espousing isolationism in a country geared for war and expansion isn't going to get anywhere.
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Baggins

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Re: Ron Paul Supporters
« Reply #40 on: January 14, 2012, 04:52:59 PM »

Quote
We can argue whether any of that's good or bad, but it doesn't matter much; anyone espousing isolationism in a country geared for war and expansion isn't going to get anywhere.


And that's the way it is...
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lordfly

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Re: Ron Paul Supporters
« Reply #41 on: January 14, 2012, 06:48:57 PM »

Basically, yes. A geriatric doctor from Texas with limited means and charisma isn't going to change the course of this country anytime soon, not when there's money to be made doing the exact opposite of what he wants.
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lordfly

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Re: Ron Paul Supporters
« Reply #43 on: January 15, 2012, 01:22:42 AM »

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