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[Frenchfry]

Jessica Ahlquist, the atheist student who got a prayer banner removed from her public high school, has received death threats and was called "evil" by one of her state representatives.
Atheist Student Gets Death Threats Over Prayer Banner

[MonroeMonkey]

Sounds like Jessica is getting what Jessica wanted. Drama.

[sammy]

Sounds like Jessica is getting what Jessica wanted. Drama.

Yep!

[excelsior]

She seems to be low profile:

http://jessicaahlquist.com/

Someone has a room full of newspaper clippings:

http://jessicaahlquist.com/media-3/

[Baggins]

Sounds like Jessica is getting what Jessica wanted. Drama.

I believe that is the true heart of the issue.  If she was a true atheist, a banner about prayer should mean nothing to her.  Her choice of disbelief does not grant her special rights over those that do.  As an atheist, she should be able to ignore the religions of others....The problem with atheism today is that a lot of people who say they are atheist treat it like a religion as if it needed to be preached, they have totally missed the point of what it means to be an atheist...

[Monique]

I see it as her being offended not so much at other people's faith as the lack of separation between church and state. It's a public school, right? If it's ok for a Christian banner to be up, then it's also ok for all other religions including Wicca and Satanism and Flying Spaghetti Monster and even for atheist banners. Sounds messy and distracting to me.

There just is no place for religion in public school. It causes too much internal strife. Let the kids focus on their studies and go to a parochial school or their house of worship if they want that form of education.

[Baggins]

I see it as her being offended not so much at other people's faith as the lack of separation between church and state. It's a public school, right? If it's ok for a Christian banner to be up, then it's also ok for all other religions including Wicca and Satanism and Flying Spaghetti Monster and even for atheist banners. Sounds messy and distracting to me.

There just is no place for religion in public school. It causes too much internal strife. Let the kids focus on their studies and go to a parochial school or their house of worship if they want that form of education.

I see your point and I agree, school is not church(unless of course that school is a religious institution!)...But, this young lady didn't take that stance, she deliberately used the atheist card, which shouldn't have been the issue.  You do see what I'm trying to say here, right?

Separation of church and state is a much deeper and serious matter than an atheist offended by a prayer banner...She has taken what should have been a serious issue and made it personal and petty by using atheism as the reasoning.

[MonroeMonkey]

Reason with people and many will come out of their faith and remove the banners of their own, but force them to remove it and you'll create more opposition and grow the militant side of the faith. As Laozi said, "Every force has a counterforce. Demand certain laws on men and they will do the opposite." Remember, I used to oppose people who violated the "Terms of Service" here, demanding they obey, and it bred within them the need to violate it all the more? One has to use skillful means of reason and debate to do away with faith, not forcing banners to come down, which will produce more banners out of a defiant heart.

I don't see a problem with people debating religion on forums and chatrooms, and other places intended to discuss and argue faiths. But to antagonize people outside of these places shows the petty nature of the person, as Baggins said, unless someone is being hurt.

I don't have a problem with prayer banners, whether Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, etc., as these people are sincere in their beliefs. But people don't seriously believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, so to insist on a banner of the FSM shows the antagonizing and petty nature of the person demanding such a thing.

If Jessica's city had a forum to debate religion and she was opposing the absurd claims of Christianity, with what she called reason, then I'd stand with her and join her in the debate, but to insist on a prayer banner being removed shows Jessica's heart of the drama queen. Shoot, I've been quite the drama king in the past, so I can see what fuels such oppositions. Darn ego! Always getting bored and wanting some drama.

[Monique]

I dunno, guys. I don't want to enter any kind of ugly argument, I'm just saying that, although I personally can't stand the Young Turks (egomaniacs!), I pretty much agree with every word they said in that clip. I'm not an atheist and I'm against any form of religion in public school and public places in general. There's a time and a place for both education and religion, and there is no reason they should ever be combined in a public manner.

[booda609]

There's a time and a place for both education and religion, and there is no reason they should ever be combined in a public manner.

Just out of curiosity, who decides when and where education and religion can be taught and practiced? What "time" is ok to practice religion? Only on Sunday mornings?

[Monique]

The major religions have their holy days and accepted times and places of worship well established.

The public education calendar is also de facto for all public school students.

[MonroeMonkey]

I agree that we should leave religion out of the public school, but I don't think people should make a big deal about a banner here and there, unless it starts getting overboard.

Like when it came to the Terms of Service here. People weren't supposed to speak sexually or use profanity. A curse word here and there or a innuendo didn't bother anyone, but when it broke out all over the forum then people complained. I can understand opposing it when it goes overboard, but not a little word here or a little banner there.

When I went to Jefferson Highschool there was a paper on the door of a classroom that said, "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ." Romans 6:23. I don't really see that as a big deal, even though I'm not a christian now, as that can have various meanings. The Hebrew word for sin means to miss the mark or to be out of the way. Based on that one may interpret that verse as saying, "The result of being out of balance with the pure nature, which is the result of ignorance, is suffering and the death of peace, but the gift of God is the teachings of Jesus Christ, which lead a man back into union with the pure nature, if one abides in this example; such as serving others, being as children, and not worrying about things." But if one was telling others, in Jefferson Highschool, that they'd burn forever for not accepting extraordianry claims without evidence, such as blood sacrifice needed for god not to be angry with you anymore, then I'd have a problem with it and say it's went overboard. Such ideas can cause distress within people, and that's not needed in public schools.

Christianity can be interpeted as a very reasonable philosophy if interpeted as a metaphor, and I have no problem with one quoting Jesus, anymore than I do with one quoting Socrates or Nietzsche. But hey, Jessica may be offended if people pray for peace in her city, so remove the banner...

[Monique]

But even one banner suggests to a person of another faith--or no faith--that the school or establishment endorses that particular religion. There should be none, that's the only fair thing to do.

I am a staunch and passionate believer in unfettered freedom to privately practice any religion--or none--that an individual sees fit.

[MonroeMonkey]

Anymore, on my best days, I see the world as a play of elements in which humans attach concepts and labels. I'll let those who play within this passing world fight it out.


Tao Te Ching

Chapter 16

Empty your mind of all thoughts.
Let your heart be at peace.
Watch without judgment the turmoil of beings, but contemplate their return.
Each separate being in the universe returns to the common source.
Returning to the source is serenity.
If you don't realize the source, you stumble in confusion and sorrow.
When you realize where you come from, you naturally become tolerant, disinterested, amused, kindhearted as a grandmother, dignified as a king.



Wonder if I could put those words on a banner and post them in a school... Ah, wondering just causes confusion. Look at how peaceful the empty white background is; think I'll rest in that.

[Aunt Lisa]

 Just what did this banner say? Can't find it. I would really like to know.

 I believe in God as it is MY RIGHT in this country along with every other religion. I would not threaten this child nor would I stand by and let this child be hurt. I guess I'm a small part of my religion that doesn't resort to violence just like another religion I know says the same thing.
 If you don't want God and State that's fine but what if it was just a message of peace or love? Really would it be that bad in a school of today's world of bullying, gay bashing, hate crimes, gangs, domestic violence (boyfriend/girlfriend) and so on?
 My children are taught not to judge. Don't ever throw that stone!