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Baby Hitler

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Re: Fascism Advancing
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2012, 10:36:14 AM »

i'm not sure why I post things here, thinking there will be any meaningful discussion.  why are people afraid to think?
You accuse everyone who doesn't adhere to your way of thinking of being afraid or unable to think.

Why do you think anyone would want to debate with you?

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JL

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Re: Fascism Advancing
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2012, 10:43:58 AM »

actually i'm referring to the rash of irrelevant responses to a serious issue:

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Nah I'm good, thanks for asking.

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Look out, everyone; it's time for the JL circle again!

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by any chance does the "L" in JL stand for Looney???

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If you want real fasciscm advancing, look at Hungary.

I would think that people would want to justify their support of a system that thrives on the forceful extraction of wealth (theft).  I suppose it's easier to just make jokes and pretend that anyone who poses that line of thinking is crazy.   

You accuse everyone who doesn't adhere to your way of thinking of being afraid or unable to think.

Why do you think anyone would want to debate with you?

sammy

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Re: Fascism Advancing
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2012, 10:55:31 AM »

To your last line; Yep!
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JL

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Re: Fascism Advancing
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2012, 10:56:31 AM »

that's called willful ignorance. 

To your last line; Yep!

BigRedDog

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Re: Fascism Advancing
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2012, 10:56:58 AM »

actually i'm referring to the rash of irrelevant responses to a serious issue:

I would think that people would want to justify their support of a system that thrives on the forceful extraction of wealth (theft).  I suppose it's easier to just make jokes and pretend that anyone who poses that line of thinking is crazy.

That's the part you're missing JL...

it's not a serious issue...   people that refuse to pay their taxes shouldn't have the same level of rights as us true patriots do...

as far as I'm concerned they should just take whatever possessions these losers do have and toss their sorry backside out of the country...

if they want to live abroad then go for it...

makes more room for real Americans instead of the

Just Losers :o :o :o

get a job...  pay your fair share of taxes and make something of yourself in this land of opportunity...

as it is you're just taking up space from people that want to do something with their lives 8* 8* 8*
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"It's always easy to come up with a solution to someone else's problems".

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JL

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Re: Fascism Advancing
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2012, 11:01:29 AM »

you can stop the personal attacks based on your completely incorrect, wild assumptions.  they don't further your argument at all. 

it's not a serious issue?  war, corporate welfare, torture, prohibition, caging people, and everything else that is supported through coercive taxation is not serious?  or maybe the fact that the mere act of taxation often involves caging, threatening with weapons, etc.  Not serious? 

why can't you answer the questions I asked you? 

old salt

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Re: Fascism Advancing
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2012, 11:23:11 AM »

questions for you: 

1.  at what tax rate would you no longer consider it the land of opportunity and get excited about having your money taken?  70%?  90%?

This question has been asked many times.  No one on the left will answer it. 
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A political system controlled by an ignorant electorate that is manipulated by a dishonest and controlled media that dispenses propaganda on behalf of a corrupt political establishment can hardly be the path to lasting prosperity.

ussoccer26

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Re: Fascism Advancing
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2012, 11:49:36 AM »


as far as I'm concerned they should just take whatever possessions these losers do have and toss their sorry backside out of the country...


I think that's part of the point JL was trying to make in his first post on this topic. If you feel that it's unlawful to pay taxes and wish to leave the country to settle in another you shouldn't be forcibly held in this country just to pay taxes. What's holding on to one man who didn't want to pay, it's like a dime in a sea of $100 bills. To me that bill is more costly to put someone in a jail cell than to just let them go.
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Dependence begets subservience and venality, suffocates the germ of virtue, and prepares fit tools for the designs of ambition.

T-M-T

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Re: Fascism Advancing
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2012, 12:28:10 PM »

If you choose to drive on the toll road, you have to pay the toll.  You can’t withhold it (or part of it) because you don’t like the fact that they used some of the money to plant flowers in front of the tollbooth.

Wealth is not created in isolation.  You use society’s laws and protections every day to earn a living and function within that society.  If you don’t pay for those services, YOU are the one guilty of theft.
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JL

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Re: Fascism Advancing
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2012, 12:47:13 PM »

the scenario you describe is a VOLUNTARY one.  Someone owns something that you want to use.  You decide whether or not it is worth the cost, and if it is, you make a mutually beneficial exchange with the owner. 

The owner benefits by receiving the payment they were asking, and you benefit through the ability to use the property under the agreed upon terms.  We know this is mutually beneficial because both parties chose to make the exchange voluntarily.  There was no coercion involved.  No guns, no IRS, etc. 

Taxes on the other hand are NOT voluntary.  You don't have a choice.  You either pay up, and fund the entire swath of "services" (war, torture, assassination, nation building, drones, sanctions, drug wars, corporate welfare, etc.) or you are stripped of your ability to make voluntary transactions with other consenting adults.  For example, you can't buy and sell things and you can't get a job without the threat of violence. 

Prosperity is increased dramatically by countless voluntary interactions between individuals that occur every minute.  We benefit from cooperation, but only when it is voluntary.  Violence is never a suitable means of increasing our quality of life, even if it's touted as for the common good and carried out by people with special outfits and fancy titles.  Force is force no matter who initiates it. 

If I came to your house and painted it neon pink without your permission and demanded that you pay me $20,000 in return, a rational person would acknowledge the injustice.  You would not be seen as a thief for refusing to pay. 



If you choose to drive on the toll road, you have to pay the toll.  You can’t withhold it (or part of it) because you don’t like the fact that they used some of the money to plant flowers in front of the tollbooth.

Wealth is not created in isolation.  You use society’s laws and protections every day to earn a living and function within that society.  If you don’t pay for those services, YOU are the one guilty of theft.

SMASH

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Re: Fascism Advancing
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2012, 05:46:54 PM »

That's the part you're missing JL...

it's not a serious issue...   people that refuse to pay their taxes shouldn't have the same level of rights as us true patriots do...

What's that? Now we should have to BUY Rights?
WOW, that's a new one!


as far as I'm concerned they should just take whatever possessions these losers do have and toss their sorry backside out of the country...


Who's "they"?
Just take?
So you do believe in the "force" of government.
Since we are already 14 trillion dollars in debt we will be an even more "FREE" when we are 20 TRILLION in debt, right?






if they want to live abroad then go for it...

makes more room for real Americans instead of the

Just Losers :o :o :o

get a job...  pay your fair share of taxes and make something of yourself in this land of opportunity...

as it is you're just taking up space from people that want to do something with their lives 8* 8* 8*
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jbs49238

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Re: Fascism Advancing
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2012, 08:37:23 PM »

i'm not sure why I post things here, thinking there will be any meaningful discussion.  why are people afraid to think? 

It has nothing to do with a fear of thinking JL... It is a desire not to hear your EXACT SAME ARGUMENTS OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN when I bring something to the table that does not reinforce 100% what you just said.

You have had your chance to debate and discuss here in the past and failed miserably.  Now I think it is very telling that you are posting that you want folks to "argue" with you... at least you are honest about what you are looking to do here.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2012, 08:58:19 PM by jbs49238 »
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jbs49238

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Re: Fascism Advancing
« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2012, 08:40:23 PM »

I think that's part of the point JL was trying to make in his first post on this topic. If you feel that it's unlawful to pay taxes and wish to leave the country to settle in another you shouldn't be forcibly held in this country just to pay taxes. What's holding on to one man who didn't want to pay, it's like a dime in a sea of $100 bills. To me that bill is more costly to put someone in a jail cell than to just let them go.

Actually if you voluntarily earned your money within the system... YES YOU SHOULD.  If the system offends you, be a man, square up, and go.  Honestly no one will stop you.
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JL

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Re: Fascism Advancing
« Reply #28 on: April 06, 2012, 04:08:15 PM »

I posted something that sheds more light on injustice.  I posted it because I would like people to be aware of what is going on.  It would be great if no one disagreed and showed concern over an ever encroaching state.  I did not expect that to happen.  The response was the typical  wave of inane comments replete with logical fallacies or completely disregarding the topic all together. 

I have no problem with people disagreeing and engaging in civil debate.  My problem is that people in these forums so rarely put forward a logical argument for their assertions (if they even make an assertion). 

In past threads people have found themselves caught in such twisted contradictions that the most stubborn of them have eventually said things like it is an absolute truth that there is no absolute truth, rape is ok in some situations, etc.  Others just give up and refuse to answer my questions (kind of like BigRedDog has done in this thread).  I'm going to continue to put forward my argument until people agree or they can show me how I am wrong (using reason and evidence).  I remain open to correction, as always. 



It has nothing to do with a fear of thinking JL... It is a desire not to hear your EXACT SAME ARGUMENTS OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN when I bring something to the table that does not reinforce 100% what you just said.

You have had your chance to debate and discuss here in the past and failed miserably.  Now I think it is very telling that you are posting that you want folks to "argue" with you... at least you are honest about what you are looking to do here.

lordfly

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Re: Fascism Advancing
« Reply #29 on: April 07, 2012, 02:33:59 AM »

i'm not sure why I post things here, thinking there will be any meaningful discussion.  why are people afraid to think? 

Why did you pay your taxes again this year?
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