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[ducksoup]

I think that there needs to be a guru.

I blogged heavily and participated here because Dan Shaw had a vision for what the place could be.  He had gatherings at his house and went the extra mile to make sure that people felt they were part of something big and exciting.

There are a million internet forums.  People need to be able to follow a vision to connect with one.

Not sure they have to go that far, Mike; and gosh, good to hear from you.  It does feel like no one at Monroe Publishing even realizes that MT is still around.  I'd like a post from their people once in awhile to show that it isn't a lost cause and just running on fumes.

[Frenchfry]

I agree that a more effective moderation would be a welcome thing.  It is comments like that that I am growing very tired of.  One doesn’t need to read more than a couple of posts to see a post intending to inflame or be a personal attack rather than a debate about the topic.   Debates get heated, and that is fine, but why do so many feel that insulting people personally is in any way constructive or continues the topic debate.  I am not meaning to pick on Flanders alone, there are very many that do it, and some that seem to make it primary.


The ones I think are offensive and should be reduced is the “why should I bother to read your crap, you are a moron,” or “Why listen to you, your family is all felons,” and “You (or you people) are just ____________.” 

Those do nothing to spur debate, and usually are intended to be a personal insult to distract and take the topic off course, or shut down debate with wild accusations that are not answerable.  When FF says things like “Republitards are too stupid to see truth,” or whatever similar it is, he shuts off the debate and usually a few pages of mutual piss off the other pages follow.
I've never said anything even close to that. (although you may have read my mind) 

I don’t like his comments and understand how people are offended,
It's interesting how sensitive you are to the comments from the right....and how easily you'll throw like-minded people under the bus to prove how non-partisan and reasonable you are.
yet the same exact people have no problems dishing out the same exact crap from the right and make out like they are nowhere the same, when they are EXACTLY the same.  To make it worse there is one FF to numerous opposites.

Some are on and off offensive, usually toward one other poster.  That I can understand better than those that use MT as an insult factory.  However, I can think of 3 right off that never contribute anything other than insults or flames.
Sounds like what you've described is the rampant bullying I've commented about several times and while it's the hot topic in the news....apparently it's allowed on this forum.

So, I think allowing lively debate, even if it becomes a bit wild, but on topic is acceptable. Insulting or flaming just to do that is something I wish was dealt with.  I don’t mean the gray area stuff, but the ones that are easy for anyone to pick, like the one sited above.  The comment was not on topic and had the clear intent to be a personal insult.

I am not in favor of a shout box.  I liked it, it was fun, but it was used instead of forum posts and ultimately became a bad thing.
A shout box would be like the wild west....the anything goes mentality...bad idea.

I like the idea of a time out separate area, and don’t.  It would be good to let BOTH of the offenders bicker it out and get it over without burdening the rest.  Sadly, I see too much of “This is what you said in a personal message” that is horrendous.  If people wanted to have it said on MT they could.  They chose a private message to keep it private.  I see that happening from a separate area, just unloaded on the forum after they get unbanned.

I think the other part of banning is that too often only one suffers, when it is not just the one at fault.  I notice FF gets temp bans a lot anymore, yet the same repeat offenders that jump in and go after him - usually as a gang - don’t get the same punishment.  Frankly, I don’t give a crap who starts it.  With FF it is probably 50/50, yet still he gets the sole time off.  With him, I think that is the game.  Several or more gang up and dish it out then report him and they get their jollies to have silenced their supposed enemy. 
Point of clarification....I haven't been banned in a long time. But that's how it used to work...an organized group of complainers abused the report to mod link....I think somebody at the MEN finally caught on to the game.
Now the tactic is to bully relentlessly....to the point where the only thing stuck in memories is how nasty the 'Fry replies are....and most are false memories such as your earlier example as well as the twit that crawled from under a rock to blast false accusations in another thread not long ago. So the concerted effort by the righties failed to get me banned....but the bullying is very tiring so my increasing absences are voluntary.
Sadly that admission will surely embolden the right-wing bully group....I feel sorry for the message their tactic sends to their families.

But many are one on one and still only one gets banned.  I am thinking of a recent one where a Fluffy made a rather innocuous comment that seemed harmless to me, yet one LGW took it personal.  Looking, it very well could have been meant to be flaming, but it was mild enough it could have passed as nothing.  What followed was a mess.  LGW posting personal messages of other posters and admin was very wrong and deserved an instant ban just for that, but both should have gotten a temp ban for back and forth insults off topic.

But, to make it clear, if people are on topic and it is heated, then a different measure should apply.  One that comes to mind is the suicide topic.  BM has repeatedly stated that “suicide is cowardly”.  It is a valid personal opinion, yet he is repeating it because he sees it is garnering a negative response and clearly upsetting to some.  Where does that then go?

Unfortunately, all of that means someone doing it, and I don’t think Monroe Publishing wants to pay for that.

Some things that that I would like to see:  One at the top is BRD’s idea of a history category.  That is a winner and easy for MT to do. 

Sometimes a discussion revolves around an article on the website that is a paragraph with a follow to the pay section for the rest.  When it is being debated it would be good if Admin posted the full article in the topic so everyone gets it.  It would probably be few and would not interfere with encouraging subscribers.

It would be great to have a guest for questions and answers.  A topic opened in the regular forum and ask the Mayor, or Sherriff, or a lawyer, or Dr. or maybe Bronco, orwho knows.  That could be fun.

Here is my absolute biggie though.  Monroe Publishing, get your people to post.  Why do I almost never see a post by a sports writer?  Why, if a recent news item comes up does no reporter make a quick comment that they are checking it out, or following up.  I mean something more like a twitter-like thing where they make a comment not expect a follow up from it.  Reporter C says “I am headed to the H.S. to watch the game and make a report.  Or, “Bad accident at 13th and Maple, story will follow on main site. Get your people to make a small comment here and there, they don’t have to debate, but make a presence.  Frankly, I think the sports section could really use some help, and anything there would be a big improvement.

One that is something I thought of is that the majority of seniors read the paper for the obits.  Maybe a category (so it can be blocked easily) for commentaries on obits?  It might get some seniors to the forum just for that.

The other that could gain new members is the guest question and answer time.  Oh, meant to say it would be scheduled and advertised for a specific time and with a concrete time limit.  They tried it with the separate software and it didn’t fly because of the technology.  Besides if it was on the forum then people can read the fun later.  Think if Homrich did an hour answering questions this week?  How about a sports person doing two hours on the tigers?  How about a road commission person?  Rules would have to be enforced and ensure civility, and probably an instant ban hammer to start.  But it doesn’t always have to be big-time.  How about a lawyer just answering lawyerly like questions?  A Judge talking about what it is like to be a judge?  Serious, do any of you know what a judge does day to day, what it is like?  I would love to have the guy that flies the Raptor back as a guest so he can answer questions and not be harassed.  That was good stuff when he made an appearance.  But, like when that plane crashed at the park, a guest pilot could answer generic questions about planes, and related stuff.  An auto mechanic answering questions could be filling.  How about school board talking about what they do besides what we always hear as the news.  What does a school board member do?

To me it seems a promising idea and would like to participate, or just read it later too.  That is the value of it being forum rather than the other software.

Maybe one last thing and get people to make short posts.  LOL.

The forum will never be able to please everybody.
BM certainly seems to enjoy antagonizing but he's entitled to his opinion.
I'm not in favor of heavy-handed moderation...it's too subjective....and I still recall the arbitrary actions of the past.
I have just one suggestion for improving MT...discuss the topic.

[superspice_10]

We should add some cartoons .   

[ducksoup]

The forum will never be able to please everybody.
BM certainly seems to enjoy antagonizing but he's entitled to his opinion.
I'm not in favor of heavy-handed moderation...it's too subjective....and I still recall the arbitrary actions of the past.
I have just one suggestion for improving MT...discuss the topic.

You are correct, I made up something LIKE what you would say, but indeed you probably didn’t say that exact phrase.

I am not “sensitive” to comments from the right. I clearly said that jumping all over your posts just because it is you is bad as well.  I really don’t like that you can be rather harsh when you really don’t have to be. Sometimes you make a good point and it will fly away because of baiting you, or just brash comments.  I can’t see how you think it is “throwing you under a bus.”  Also, I don’t think anyone here would say that I am anything but left.   I am not a Democrat though, Fry.  If that makes me non-partisan, well, okay. 

I do have an open mind and listen to many opinions, and not just here.  If I say something that doesn’t seem left, well, I guess I just think it.  That is all I do.  I talk for me, my opinions, my thinking on something.  Sometimes it changes.  But, that has nothing to do with civility either.

“Discuss the topic...” Yes.  Think on it though.  When they make comments and get you going, you lose the topic.  Any point you made is lost in traded insults.  They win by default.  That is the real game, even more than banning.  Making whatever you say as if it is useless just because it came from you is a win for them.

If you want to believe that what I said is empty words just meant to appear a moderate, feel free.  But, that is not fact.

[LetsGoWings]

But many are one on one and still only one gets banned.  I am thinking of a recent one where a Fluffy made a rather innocuous comment that seemed harmless to me, yet one LGW took it personal.  Looking, it very well could have been meant to be flaming, but it was mild enough it could have passed as nothing.  What followed was a mess.  LGW posting personal messages of other posters and admin was very wrong and deserved an instant ban just for that, but both should have gotten a temp ban for back and forth insults off topic.

Yeah I should have passed it off as nothing, but JBS saying FF was working and me posting the definition is being petty and you, FF, and FB all commented on it. If it were the other way around you would have been sticking up for FB by saying I made a stupid comment intended to flame. You only stick up for them because they are on your side, don't believe me? When was the last time you ever stuck up for me or JK or someone else on here? It was real simple, if FB never posted that comment, keep in mind an off topic comment, on the meme post, then none of those off topic pages of comments would have happened. USS and I were discussing the topic, and then FB came in and posted an off topic comment with the intent to take a jab at me.

Why was me posting the definition of 'work' petty, but FB throwing an insult OK?

Oh, but FB posting personal messages I sent him is OK? There is no way to determine who sent the PM's I quoted, and if they are even real. However, it is clearly obvious the one FB posted is a PM, but you don't call for his ban.

[Baby Hitler]

Oh, but FB posting personal messages I sent him is OK? There is no way to determine who sent the PM's I quoted, and if they are even real. However, it is clearly obvious the one FB posted is a PM, but you don't call for his ban.

Here is one (A PM) from you, but you failed to live up to it:
Quote

    Just to let you know, I removed you from my ignore list. I look forward to discussing topics with you in the future, even if we might not be on the same side.

You posted mine first, so I posted yours. Go Q.Q some more.

[LetsGoWings]

You posted mine first, so I posted yours. Go Q.Q some more.

If I should have be instant banned for posting those PMs, then you should too. fair is fair, but DS will never call for you to be banned.

So, sticking up for myself and defending my position is crying? glad to hear I am not allowed to defend my self on here, but when FF does it he has to because everyone is picking on him. Again fair is fair.

[AtypicalGirl]

The forum will never be able to please everybody.

That's exactly it.  (holy crap, me and Fry agree! lol jk Fry!! )

What one person likes, another one doesn't. There will always be friction and there's nothing we can do about it.

I like some of the ideas here and I think 'spicing' things up a bit would be nice. It would most likely bring in new people and that's what admin wants (even though they haven't even made a comment in this thread....).

I also agree they need to be around more often. No, not with a heavy hand, but to keep things in order. It seems the only time they come around is when there is a problem with the forum (software glitches, etc..) and they really don't care about it.

I understand that Dan isn't there anymore but I have to admit I liked it a lot more when he was. He interacted with us and seemed to care more about the forum. Also, I don't recall having too many discussions about MT being "done" when he was around. The way it's being 'run' now, it's like a parent letting their child run the streets by themselves and the only time the parent interacts with their child is when there is something majorly wrong. lol 

[ducksoup]

If I should have be instant banned for posting those PMs, then you should too. fair is fair, but DS will never call for you to be banned.

So, sticking up for myself and defending my position is crying? glad to hear I am not allowed to defend my self on here, but when FF does it he has to because everyone is picking on him. Again fair is fair.

LGW posting personal messages of other posters and admin was very wrong and deserved an instant ban just for that, but both should have gotten a temp ban for back and forth insults off topic.

[ducksoup]

That's exactly it.  (holy crap, me and Fry agree! lol jk Fry!! )

What one person likes, another one doesn't. There will always be friction and there's nothing we can do about it.

I like some of the ideas here and I think 'spicing' things up a bit would be nice. It would most likely bring in new people and that's what admin wants (even though they haven't even made a comment in this thread....).

I also agree they need to be around more often. No, not with a heavy hand, but to keep things in order. It seems the only time they come around is when there is a problem with the forum (software glitches, etc..) and they really don't care about it.

I understand that Dan isn't there anymore but I have to admit I liked it a lot more when he was. He interacted with us and seemed to care more about the forum. Also, I don't recall having too many discussions about MT being "done" when he was around. The way it's being 'run' now, it's like a parent letting their child run the streets by themselves and the only time the parent interacts with their child is when there is something majorly wrong. lol 

Well said ATG.  And wouldn't an input from MPC be fitting NOW!

[LetsGoWings]

But many are one on one and still only one gets banned.  I am thinking of a recent one where a Fluffy made a rather innocuous comment that seemed harmless to me, yet one LGW took it personal.  Looking, it very well could have been meant to be flaming, but it was mild enough it could have passed as nothing.  What followed was a mess. LGW posting personal messages of other posters and admin was very wrong and deserved an instant ban just for that, but both should have gotten a temp ban for back and forth insults off topic.

Why am I the only one out of FB and I to deserve an instant band when we both posted PMs?

Answer: Because FB is on the same side of the fence as you and you just want me banned.

[MM1]

Maybe we need a MT OFFICIAL INTERPRETER so all the "you said, but you meant" mis-interpretations and personalizing of everything would be clear.   

Even my earlier post (which was not directed at a single poster whatsoever) about figuring out some way to not have the "Most Recent Posts" page get all bogged down with a single thread was received with some rather rude (IMO) and personal attacks.    But, there it was.  Nastiness because of "interpretations".   


More Admin presence would be great as far as I'm concerned.  But the Admins can't FORCE us to be civil; nor should they.  We have it, or we don't/won't. 

And I wouldn't be surprised if they had to draw straws to see who loses and gets stuck with the next shift of Admin babysitting.    

[eriemermaid]

Wow, it sounds like I missed some drama while I was gone . . . I won't ever leave again!         

[Baby Hitler]

Why am I the only one out of FB and I to deserve an instant band when we both posted PMs?

Answer: Because FB is on the same side of the fence as you and you just want me banned.

You also started it, AND posted one from the Admin.

I'd add 2 extra strikes to you for that.

[LetsGoWings]

You also started it, AND posted one from the Admin.

I'd add 2 extra strikes to you for that.

You started it because you doubted my comments. And we can go back and say you started it when you commented, off topic, on that meme.

I believe you have had the temp ban before whether it be on a different name or not, I have not, so that is an additional strike against you because you are a previous offender.

Either way if I deserve the instant ban for posting PMs, then you should also deserve an instant ban for posting a PM. It shouldn't matter who was first if we were both in the wrong.