MonroeTalks.com > Categories > Nature & Environment > DTE Monroe plant one of regions top mercury polluters


Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5   Go Down

Author Topic: DTE Monroe plant one of regions top mercury polluters  (Read 2620 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

arpydave

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 971
Re: DTE Monroe plant one of regions top mercury polluters
« Reply #45 on: June 09, 2012, 06:08:09 PM »

Very impressive graph, Lordfly.

"Turns out there ARE 5% efficient solar panels... at some research station in Toronto, probably using something ridiculous like seashells or cats or something. Current solar panel tech is topping out at over 40% efficient, and shows little signs of stopping anytime soon.

But sure, 5% sounds totally accurate."

It does show that the technology is out there. 

Please point out which of the lines represents the affordable & consumer available technology.  Not the research lab working under grant with access to combining exotic rare earth minerals.  Ya know, something in between the "sea shells" tech @ 5% and the Sandia Labs stuff.
Logged
"We shall never forget that it was our submarines that held the lines against the enemy while our fleets replaced losses and repaired wounds."
Fleet Admiral Chester Nimitz, USN.

 "Of all the branches of men in the forces there is none which shows more devotion and faces grimmer perils than the submariners"  
~Sir Winston S. Churchill~

"I saw the submariners, the way they stood aloof and silent, watching their pigboat with loving eyes. They are alone in the Navy. I admired the PT boys. And I often wondered how the aviators had the courage to go out day after day and I forgave their boasting. But the submariners! In the entire fleet they stand apart!”  James Michener

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. " George Orwell

lordfly

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7567
  • Fancy.
Re: DTE Monroe plant one of regions top mercury polluters
« Reply #46 on: June 09, 2012, 06:45:29 PM »

Very impressive graph, Lordfly.

"Turns out there ARE 5% efficient solar panels... at some research station in Toronto, probably using something ridiculous like seashells or cats or something. Current solar panel tech is topping out at over 40% efficient, and shows little signs of stopping anytime soon.

But sure, 5% sounds totally accurate."

It does show that the technology is out there. 

Please point out which of the lines represents the affordable & consumer available technology.  Not the research lab working under grant with access to combining exotic rare earth minerals.  Ya know, something in between the "sea shells" tech @ 5% and the Sandia Labs stuff.

According to what I've been able to root around, the current batch of consumer-grade solar panels (highest rated seem to be from Sanyo) are around 15% efficient under real-world conditions.

Still 3x better than the 5% mentioned. And always improving.

Logged
your mom goes to college.

Tiny

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2569
  • Aw...Nuts
Re: DTE Monroe plant one of regions top mercury polluters
« Reply #47 on: June 09, 2012, 10:56:49 PM »

So I guess we should spend $10,000 on a solar array so we can light a few light bulbs and use Coal plants to run our air conditioners, furnace, washer and dryer, TVs, computers etc.
Logged
Women should be obscene and not heard.

Mike Ingels

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2882
    • Expatriate Monroe
Re: DTE Monroe plant one of regions top mercury polluters
« Reply #48 on: June 09, 2012, 11:39:42 PM »

That is the funny thing, isn't it?  All those Priuses and iPads are basically running on coal.
Logged
The world is basically good.

lordfly

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7567
  • Fancy.
Re: DTE Monroe plant one of regions top mercury polluters
« Reply #49 on: June 10, 2012, 03:13:09 AM »

That is the funny thing, isn't it?  All those Priuses and iPads are basically running on coal.

And yet, it is more efficient for a single coal plant to burn to produce electricity for a fleet of Priusseseseseses than it is for a fleet of gas-powered cars. Efficiencies of scale and all that.
Logged
your mom goes to college.

marilyn.monroe

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9218
Re: DTE Monroe plant one of regions top mercury polluters
« Reply #50 on: June 10, 2012, 08:47:30 AM »

And yet, it is more efficient for a single coal plant to burn to produce electricity for a fleet of Priusseseseseses than it is for a fleet of gas-powered cars. Efficiencies of scale and all that.

COAL has ZERO efficiency when you factor in health and environment destruction.
Logged

lordfly

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7567
  • Fancy.
Re: DTE Monroe plant one of regions top mercury polluters
« Reply #51 on: June 10, 2012, 12:03:49 PM »

COAL has ZERO efficiency when you factor in health and environment destruction.

That's a nonsensical statement.
Logged
your mom goes to college.

marilyn.monroe

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9218
Re: DTE Monroe plant one of regions top mercury polluters
« Reply #52 on: June 10, 2012, 12:29:26 PM »

That's a nonsensical statement.

It's a mathmatical statement if one can put a price on humans life.
Nuclear has negative effiency when the radioactive waste is taken into consideration.
Logged

lordfly

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7567
  • Fancy.
Re: DTE Monroe plant one of regions top mercury polluters
« Reply #53 on: June 10, 2012, 12:51:24 PM »

It's a mathmatical statement if one can put a price on humans life.
Nuclear has negative effiency when the radioactive waste is taken into consideration.

Solar has negative efficiency when the heat death of the universe is taken into consideration.
Logged
your mom goes to college.

SidecarFlip

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6651
Re: DTE Monroe plant one of regions top mercury polluters
« Reply #54 on: June 10, 2012, 01:15:42 PM »

If all the things purported to kill you, actually did, we'd all be dead...... ;D

So the plant is a big emitter (of mercury), so what.  It's a BIG GENERATION FACILITY.  Its about scale and DTE is at the top of the scale.

Hey folks...  You have to have it, like gasoline for your ride so live with the consequences.
Logged
AN ARMED SOCIETY IS A POLITE SOCIETY

Frenchfry

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 27230
Re: DTE Monroe plant one of regions top mercury polluters
« Reply #55 on: June 10, 2012, 10:42:08 PM »

Solar electricity:
Finally affordable!

June 2010
How much does a solar system cost?

    A system big enough to supply energy for an average home (920 kWh/mo.) will cost $2,400 to $79,000. That compares to $63,000 the average household would have spent on average for dirty electricity over 21 years (assuming that electrical costs rise at an average of 4% per year).

    Yes, that's quite a range in prices. The price is affected by tax credits, rebates, local prices in your area, and how much sun you get. Since everyone's situation is different, the calculator at right will help you figure the costs for your particular situation.

    What you'll see is that in many cases, solar is affordable right this very minute. If the calculator shows that your price per kWH is less than what you're currently paying per kWh, then solar is an excellent deal and I recommend you explore it. If your price per kWh is over what you're currently paying, then consider whether you're willing to pay a premium to go green. Most people who have gone solar so far have paid a little extra in order to get their energy without pollution; the environment was their concern, not money. But as solar is becoming cost-competitive with dirty energy, people are indeed saving money by going solar.

    Realize that you don't have to get a system large enough to generate as much as you use. You can start out with a system that generates 80%, 50%, 25%, or even just 10% of your needs to lower your cost. And a 10% reduction in pollution is better than 0%.

The site is from 2010 but has a ton of info.
The Price per kWh and Source of Electricity comparison graph doesn't translate well


http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/solar.html

Solar is finally affordable in many cases . Here's why.

    Solar gets cheaper every year. It's not just that every year solar gets a little cheaper. It's also that every year dirty energy like oil and gas gets more expensive. And while that's always been true, what's special about now is that in many cases those lines have already crossed, making solar cheaper than dirty energy. Solar costs have gone down by an average of 3.5% per year from 1998 to 2007 in real dollars

Tax credits

Rebates


Rental Programs. At least three different companies offer rental programs which let you rent the panels for a fraction of the cost of buying the system outright. Another attractive benefit of rental programs is that you're not responsible for maintenance. If something breaks, the company fixes it for free and you don't have to worry about it. Here's how the different residential rental programs stack up.

Film-based solar cells. A company called Nanosolar has developed a method to make solar cells at a much lower cost. Instead of making big, expensive silicon cells, their method involves printing a very thin, flexible film. This makes solar power cost-competitive with electricity from the grid. The founders of Google were so excited about this breakthrough that they invested in the company. Nanosolar is actually producing product now (this isn't just a pipe dream), but as I write this product is sold out through 2009. (More from Technology Review and the manufacturer) A similar technology is dye-sensitized cells, which are supposed to be 1/10th the cost of traditional cells, but there's no word yet on when they'll go into production.

Plastic solar cells. Like Nanosolar, STMicroelectronics came up with an alternative to expensive silicon cells. Their solution involves making cells out of plastic. It's not nearly as efficient as silicon, but it's a whole lot cheaper to produce. Something like twenty times cheaper. Suddenly this makes solar cost-competitive with the grid. There are two downsides: One, because the new cells are less efficient, you need a lot more space to produce the same amount of electricity as with conventional cells. Most homes barely have have enough roof area to generate all their electricity from regular solar cells, and with the less efficient cells, it's unlikely that a house could go solar for all its needs. (It could certainly augment its grid usage, though.) And two, these new cells aren't available to consumers yet, but I'm guessing they'll be available by 2010. (More from CNN and the manufacturer)

Trackers & Mirrors. This is an old idea but it's taken a while for anyone to make it easy and cheap enough: Use motors to keep slightly moving the panels to keep them aimed directly at the sun, and use lenses and mirrors to concentrate the sun's energy. And motors and mirrors are a lot cheaper to make than solar cells. Many of these products are available now.


How does a solar energy system work?

    A complete system consists of:

        Solar panels
        Inverters, which convert DC electricity into AC
        Service panels to tie the output to your home's wiring, and to let you send excess electricity back to the utility

    A system could also have batteries to store extra electricity. This would allow you to live completely off the grid if your system were big enough and if you were good at conservation. But it also increases the cost and maintenance requirements substantially, so I recommend you pass on the batteries. It's easier just to send the excess you generate back to the utility and get paid for it.

    With a battery-less system, sometimes you'll be using grid energy and sometimes you'll be using solar energy. Here's a chart showing a hypothetical system:

        Red bars. At night when the sun's not shining, you'll be getting your electricity from your local utility.
        Green bars. During the day, your system will make some electric and you'll use it right away.
        Yellow bars. During the day you'll make more electric than you need, and you'll sell that back to the utility.

    So as long as you're still connected to the grid, the size of a system is kind of arbitrary. You could have a tiny system that simply fuels part of your needs with green energy, or you could have a massive system which still won't fuel all your needs, because it won't run at night.
Image address too huge...cannot post....visit the site:
http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/solar.html


Google goes solar in a big way

    In 2007 Google built a massive 1.6-megawatt solar system at its headquarters in California. It generates 30% of Google's peak demand, and around two million kWH a year. It's the largest corporate solar install in the U.S. (There are larger installations at utility companies, but this is the biggest for a company generating its own electric. Here's a good list of the largest solar installations in the world.)

    Google has a page where you can see how much electricity they generated in the last 24 hours and the last 7 days. You can also see a flyover video of their installation.

    The system will take 7 years to pay for itself, and then will generate free electricity for another 18. (The lifespan of the panels is about 25 years.)

    It doesn't end with this huge installation. In late 2007 Google announced its plans to develop a whopping one gigawatt of energy from renewable sources at a cost cheaper than coal, and to do it "within years, not decades". Wow.!
http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/solar.html
Logged
WARNING! Reading Republican/Conservative/Tea Party comments will lower your intelligence quotient!

The new motto of the obstructionist Republican Party/Conservative-right/Tea Party...refuse to legislate, just investigate.

sammy

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2488
Re: DTE Monroe plant one of regions top mercury polluters
« Reply #56 on: June 10, 2012, 10:58:34 PM »

It's a mathmatical statement if one can put a price on humans life.
Nuclear has negative effiency when the radioactive waste is taken into consideration.
Ok, we got you down against coal and nuclear, and you sure don't want none of them noisy turbines in your backyard. How you gonna drive yer Prius, anyway?!
Logged

marilyn.monroe

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9218
Re: DTE Monroe plant one of regions top mercury polluters
« Reply #57 on: June 11, 2012, 07:43:33 AM »

Ok, we got you down against coal and nuclear, and you sure don't want none of them noisy turbines in your backyard. How you gonna drive yer Prius, anyway?!
You got a mouse in your pocket? Y'all got me, I am against coal and nukes. Darn tootin'! No industrial turbines, but I'd like a few farm windmills. Seeing as I don't drive a Prius, I won't worry about driving it. Horse and buggy is more my speed.
Logged

marilyn.monroe

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9218
Re: DTE Monroe plant one of regions top mercury polluters
« Reply #58 on: June 11, 2012, 07:46:52 AM »

 8)
http://ohiosolarschools.org/

The Ohio Solar Schools Initiative teaches the value of solar energy and energy efficiency to k-12 students and college students and visitors to public zoos and science museums throughout Ohio. Basically solar panels are installed on educational centers and schools so that they are visible to passersby and to the students from school grounds. Combining high visibility with teacher training and data collection, the schools and education centers are turned into teaching laboratories.

The Ohio Solar Schools Initiative was one of the first of its kind in the United States and it began with American Electric Power’s (AEP) Learning from Light Initiative at the Bluffsview Elementary School in Worthington Ohio in 1998. The latest school installation was at Upper Arlington High School and was dedicated in October, 2007. The entire list of Ohio Solar Schools is found on this Web site.


Let the sun shine Michigan!
Logged

arpydave

  • Hero Talker
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 971
Re: DTE Monroe plant one of regions top mercury polluters
« Reply #59 on: June 11, 2012, 05:53:54 PM »

Well there you have it folks.  FF and m.m have shown conclusively that the solar option is so affordable we're ALL fools for not adopting it individually at this very moment.  Regardless of the benefit to the environment, it's so fiscally sound that you can't NOT like it!  Shhh, don't let Warren Buffet in on this little insider tidbit, huh?!  ;) ;)

And I would also, but I've learned along the way to learn from others.  Just like they've shown, I have much to learn.  :(  And they have such great access to teach me along the way.

So I'll plod along and await the continuous, regular updates from them on their progress in building and adopting their very own personal systems.  Based on the above info I'm guessing they're already well on their way to getting the needed permits, coordinating with DTE, ordering these affordable systems so they can break ground post haste.  The environment cannot wait!  :D

Meanwhile, I suggest getting a used exercise bicycle and hook a generator up to it to power your computer, a la Gilligan on Gilligan's Island.   :o

Logged
"We shall never forget that it was our submarines that held the lines against the enemy while our fleets replaced losses and repaired wounds."
Fleet Admiral Chester Nimitz, USN.

 "Of all the branches of men in the forces there is none which shows more devotion and faces grimmer perils than the submariners"  
~Sir Winston S. Churchill~

"I saw the submariners, the way they stood aloof and silent, watching their pigboat with loving eyes. They are alone in the Navy. I admired the PT boys. And I often wondered how the aviators had the courage to go out day after day and I forgave their boasting. But the submariners! In the entire fleet they stand apart!”  James Michener

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. " George Orwell
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5   Go Up