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[LessGovernment]

Some of you guys seemingly know NOTHING about "religion" ... I think some of you just can't handle the concept of "submitting" to anything bigger than your childish made up worldview; and that is called IDOLATRY ...

You guys who deny Jesus Christ also have a "god", and, it is simply a "god" created by yourselves for yourselves; thereby, NOBODY can tell you that you are wrong about anything - let alone - instruct you properly that a great many things are simply out of your control.

This is why Xerxes used the "ism" after creation in the title, kind of a back-handed typical atheist insult - as Hovind and his audience say, we ADMIT creation is a RELIGION; but you guys strain at a gnat and swallow a camel with your "there is NO God!, there is NO God!, there is NO God!" temper tantrums.

You are the ones who cannot be helped...there will most likely NEVER be a day when America is so full blown secular/humanist/communist whereby we have NO churches or believers in Jesus Christ, or, a Creator...for you wannabe's to think you are smarter than every last church-attending working professional with any combination of BOTH religious and secular education/training/life experience BECAUSE you believe human life evolved from ape-like ancestors over millions of years shows your immaturity and psychological disconnection from reality - and - as we always contend, you do it for MORAL reasons such as you want to be gay, have sex with whatever or whomever whenever, do drugs, get drunk and be reckless, use government to silence people you disagree with who would DARE to impose any rules governing your conduct.

We are not the "thought police", you are.  The evidence is clear and overwhelming - creation happened by a force incomprehensible to finite/SINFUL man - so, it is in your best interest to SUBMIT to that authority rather than continue in your foolishness that leads only to mischief, chaos, misery for yourself and others who share this planet with you.

Xerxes cites/eludes to the plight of people who are duped by false preachers(false deities), as do I; people that preach falsely about Christianity, or, give people a religion with a made up evil god that says "you are better than your human equal" are simply pure evil - but the plight of people with NO BELIEF and no preacher is far worse, and that is undeniable today, and in world history.

No doubt, the world is plagued with Christian hypocrites; no doubt that biblical Christianity and the historical/spiritual account of Jesus Christ makes the most sense to all people when it is presented PROPERLY in a way that honors God - but - to fight it, based on the selfish whims of "I refuse to believe in a Creator who would tell me not to do immoral things to others, or with my body" is beyond irrational - you most likely submitted to your parents as a child, you have to submit to your employers and their rules, if you were in the military obedience to your superiors is mandatory - there is always a hierarchy, there is a human spirit that desires LIBERTY; but, God is a god of ORDER; and, there are moral absolutes out there, most people are aware of them in their conscience(like a child taking a cookie without asking, they KNOW it is wrong, they tend to look around for PERMISSION) - and ALL the evidence suggests that deviating from those causes suffering, period!

I don't do "organized religion" - I do Jesus Christ is God, the Creator, my deity if you want - and His word is contained(and His eyewitness creation account), has been preserved, in the 1611 Authorized Version of the King James Bible - and I am a better man for it!

As far as the question did we descend from apes(were Neanderthals apes? - I think Hovind recommends Marvin L. Lubenow's book, "Bones of Contention.) - here's a clip of Hovind having a very thoughtful debate with a theistic evolutionist - look at the point he makes with respect to the evolution of human speech(from, obviously, the grunts and groans of animals IF evolution is true)...[his answer begins at 2:10 mark] - Broca's Convolvulus - NOT evolved by random chance, sorry!

Creation Evolution Debate Dr Hovind vs Dr Callahan Part 7

[Forsythia]

Language could have very well came by a random mutation since it is beneficial to the species.  Obviously primates have grunts and hand gestures to indicate certain things.  Homo Erectus had a large enough brain to actually begin to form the basis for language first using these grunts and hand singals, then associating certain sounds with certain objects and actions.

[marilyn.monroe]

Good discussion going.
God is love. Love is another thing that can't be scientifically defined. Love shows God is real.
Love doesn't always feel good. Sometimes it hurts. Life is not random. Everything has a purpose and exists for a reason. I wish I could "prove" God to those who doubt. Just looking at creation proves it to me. I feel God's love and I know he there for me. He answers my prayers. I pray for his will to be done. I may not always comprehend it, but I have faith in him. Life requires faith. People put faith in material things and other people every day. People have faith in science, because that's where the facts point. Problem is, we only know a tiny fraction of all of the "facts" out there, so science is evolving as the evidence is uncovered and the evidence is put into perspective. This is where atheism starts seeming like a religion to me.

I love animals. (but I have no desire to be hurt or killed by one!) You can communicate with them, but they don't "speak" human. The neatest form of communication and expression to me is singing. The part of the brain responsible for singing is different and in another hemisphere than for language.
Words can be deceiving. Anyway, make a joyful noise!

[MonroeMonkey]

Less regurgitates the same logical absurdities over and over. We love our sin, so we deny the war criminal of the Bible. We love our sin, so we deny absurd laws with no reason to back them. Sigh...



Less, Forsythia answered your question on language. Like all things, language evolves over a long period of time. You don't expect to find major leaps from merely grunting to speaking old English. Races and comparative languages show they are connected and have drifted apart, according to genetic drift and migration.

Can you explain to me what genetic drift is? Here, I'll tell you in a nutshell. When one population divides into two and they become isolated from one another, they begin to accumulate mutations that are unique to their community. These two groups, that used to be one, no longer share these mutations with one another, because they no longer breed together. They accumulate in differences and drift apart.



Less, answer this for me. I've never had a creationist answer this simple question. Go to Lake Erie. You'll find large rocks and smaller rocks full of fossils. If you get lucky you'll find some brachiopods and trilobites. Look carefully at all these strange species in the rocks. Then look at the dead species of today in the sands. You'll see shells of today, dead fish, maybe a dead bird. Then notice ALL the species that are fossilized in the rocks are EXTINCT. Realize that you will NEVER find the ones in the rocks alive today, and you will NEVER find the ones alive today in the rocks with these Devonian species.

Now, if all species were created in perfect form in six days, then they all lived together, and at the fall of Adam they began to die together; therefore, we ought to find them fossilized TOGETHER. But, you do NOT find modern turtles in the Devonian. You don't find wolves in the Permian. You don't find modern turkeys in the Jurassic. And floods don't sort out species.

So, make sense of this in the light of creationism. My question is: How do you make sense of this reality in the light of creationism?

[marilyn.monroe]

Less regurgitates the same logical absurdities over and over. We love our sin, so we deny the war criminal of the Bible. We love our sin, so we deny absurd laws with no reason to back them. Sigh...



Less, Forsythia answered your question on language. Like all things, language evolves over a long period of time. You don't expect to find major leaps from merely grunting to speaking old English. Races and comparative languages show they are connected and have drifted apart, according to genetic drift and migration.

Can you explain to me what genetic drift is? Here, I'll tell you in a nutshell. When one population divides into two and they become isolated from one another, they begin to accumulate mutations that are unique to their community. These two groups, that used to be one, no longer share these mutations with one another, because they no longer breed together. They accumulate in differences and drift apart.



Less, answer this for me. I've never had a creationist answer this simple question. Go to Lake Erie. You'll find large rocks and smaller rocks full of fossils. If you get lucky you'll find some brachiopods and trilobites. Look carefully at all these strange species in the rocks. Then look at the dead species of today in the sands. You'll see shells of today, dead fish, maybe a dead bird. Then notice ALL the species that are fossilized in the rocks are EXTINCT. Realize that you will NEVER find the ones in the rocks alive today, and you will NEVER find the ones alive today in the rocks with these Devonian species.

Now, if all species were created in perfect form in six days, then they all lived together, and at the fall of Adam they began to die together; therefore, we ought to find them fossilized TOGETHER. But, you do NOT find modern turtles in the Devonian. You don't find wolves in the Permian. You don't find modern turkeys in the Jurassic. And floods don't sort out species.

So, make sense of this in the light of creationism. My question is: How do you make sense of this reality in the light of creationism?

Creatures adapt or die. The world is a big place, creatures move around, people migrate. What's the big deal?

[MonroeMonkey]

God is love. Love is another thing that can't be scientifically defined. Love shows God is real.

If love shows God is real, then does hate show God is not real?


Every moment there is an animal shrieking as another animal bites into its flesh to kill it. You have a human child dying every few seconds from hunger, and they die the most pitiful deaths, eaten up by parasites in extreme pain. You have hundreds gasping for breath from lung cancer, right now. You have dragonflies that shovel out their rival's semen. You have gorillas that bash in the heads of their rival's infants. You have gypsy wasps that paralyze their victim so their offspring can slowly eat it from the inside out, while it's still alive. You have ants taking slaves, etc., etc., etc...


Does all this prove God doesn't exist, being love proves God does exist? It's a non-sequitur.

Creatures adapt or die. The world is a big place, creatures move around, people migrate. What's the big deal?

Huh?

[marilyn.monroe]

If love shows God is real, then does hate show God is not real?


Every moment there is an animal shrieking as another animal bites into its flesh to kill it. You have a human child dying every few seconds from hunger, and they die the most pitiful deaths, eaten up by parasites in extreme pain. You have hundreds gasping for breath from lung cancer, right now. You have dragonflies that shovel out their rival's semen. You have gorillas that bash in the heads of their rival's infants. You have gypsy wasps that paralyze their victim so their offspring can slowly eat it from the inside out, while it's still alive. You have ants taking slaves, etc., etc., etc...


Does all this prove God doesn't exist, being love proves God does exist? It's a non-sequitur.


Huh?

If you haven't loved, how can you hate?
How can someone endure pain and suffering without love?
If man would love more and hate less the world would be a better place for us all!
I have a hard time getting into the brain of an insect. The natural world is what it is. Humans are gifted with empathy and compassion.

[Forsythia]

Oh i forgot to add that certain primates have been taught sign language, so they show the ability to learn language.

[Monique]

Language could have very well came by a random mutation since it is beneficial to the species.  Obviously primates have grunts and hand gestures to indicate certain things.  Homo Erectus had a large enough brain to actually begin to form the basis for language first using these grunts and hand singals, then associating certain sounds with certain objects and actions.

Language most likely originated as a means for effective group hunting in order to formulate strategies. Not random, but an effective and efficient tool for acquiring food.

African Grey parrots can use language, too.

[marilyn.monroe]

Oh i forgot to add that certain primates have been taught sign language, so they show the ability to learn language.

Some animals are amazing! I wonder what they say about humans. Probably we are destroying the Earth.

Language most likely originated as a means for effective group hunting in order to formulate strategies. Not random, but an effective and efficient tool for acquiring food.

African Grey parrots can use language, too.

spoken word alerts game.

[marilyn.monroe]

Popular phrases of the day "run like hell" and "run faster!"

[marilyn.monroe]

If love shows God is real, then does hate show God is not real?


Every moment there is an animal shrieking as another animal bites into its flesh to kill it. You have a human child dying every few seconds from hunger, and they die the most pitiful deaths, eaten up by parasites in extreme pain. You have hundreds gasping for breath from lung cancer, right now. You have dragonflies that shovel out their rival's semen. You have gorillas that bash in the heads of their rival's infants. You have gypsy wasps that paralyze their victim so their offspring can slowly eat it from the inside out, while it's still alive. You have ants taking slaves, etc., etc., etc...


Does all this prove God doesn't exist, being love proves God does exist? It's a non-sequitur.


Huh?

Do you realize how much fossils are out there and what has been ate by the Earth??
Huh?
If a species doesn't adapt, it dies!!!

[MonroeMonkey]

Do you realize how much fossils are out there and what has been ate by the Earth?

Huh? Lol... Trust me, I know quite a bit about fossilization.

If a species doesn't adapt, it dies!!!

Yup.

[marilyn.monroe]

The theory of evolution is evolving:

http://www.themarysue.com/primate-fossils-myanmar/

How many "prehuman" species can one have existing at the same time?

[MonroeMonkey]

The theory of evolution is evolving:

http://www.themarysue.com/primate-fossils-myanmar/

How many "prehuman" species can one have existing at the same time?

A LOT. You expect to find all sorts of variations, due to genetic drift. Why do you think we have so many races of humans? And on an evolutionary time scale that didn't take long.