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[marilyn.monroe]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scopolamine


Devil's Breath

Mothers warn their children not to fall asleep under this tree.

[LessGovernment]

Did Eve disobey God, and subsequently her husband;(and did a just God hand out a just punishment) - or - did a hippo-like creature become a whale over millions of years?

I see evidence of sin in mankind, don't think any bones of dead things found in the dirt PROVE that the specimen had ANY offspring; let alone offspring whose skeletal, respiratory, circulatory, nervous, and digestive system changed from land-dwelling to water-living ... what's next for the whale over millions of years...a helicopter with dragonfly wings?

[Johnson35]

Less, May I recommend that you briefly put aside your beliefs and read about evolution?  Many of your statements indicate you have very little understanding about it.  When you argue with Xerses, ,who knows both sides of the argument so well, you are unable to make any convincing argument for your case.  Try this question?  What if there was evolution?  That doesn't mean you have to give up your belief in Christianity.

[marilyn.monroe]

Less, May I recommend that you briefly put aside your beliefs and read about evolution?  Many of your statements indicate you have very little understanding about it.  When you argue with Xerses, ,who knows both sides of the argument so well, you are unable to make any convincing argument for your case.  Try this question?  What if there was evolution?  That doesn't mean you have to give up your belief in Christianity.

What kind of advice is that? Suspend your convictions and read fairy tales?

[marilyn.monroe]

If we are busting out the scientific textbooks, let's take a look at when human life begins. It isn't the product of random luckiness, it is the result of creation. If you choose science, you are restricted to the facts, there is no "it leads me to believe" about it. Prove it.

[MonroeMonkey]

All LessGov does is troll, as he NEVER addresses the subject matter, but instead commits logical fallacies.


Now, he keeps trying to exploit where I said "Hippo-like," not realizing I did NOT say it was a hippo! I meant hippo-like in that hippos spend most of their lives in water, but are quadrupeds. Such as kutchicetus, in the picture below, had the ability, like the hippo, to go onto land, but lived most its life in water.







Anyways, Less, skillfully address the problems I raised about the apocalyptic Jesus. I'd be happy to hand your arguments to you, on a silver platter.

[marilyn.monroe]

All LessGov does is troll, as he NEVER addresses the subject matter, but instead commits logical fallacies.


Now, he keeps trying to exploit where I said "Hippo-like," not realizing I did NOT say it was a hippo! I meant hippo-like in that hippos spend most of their lives in water, but are quadrupeds. Such as kutchicetus, in the picture below, had the ability, like the hippo, to go onto land, but lived most its life in water.







Anyways, Less, skillfully address the problems I raised about the apocalyptic Jesus. I'd be happy to hand your arguments to you, on a silver platter.

I think Less does a good job responding. He has a different point of view.
I agree, Jesus was a prophet.

[MonroeMonkey]

I think Less does a good job responding. He has a different point of view.

As good a job as you do.

Point is, Less has no valid argument in relation to the topics at hand. Merely appealing to an invisible deity is a joke.

[marilyn.monroe]

As good a job as you do.

Point is, Less has no valid argument in relation to the topics at hand. Merely appealing to an invisible deity is a joke.

You're sounding like Richard Dawkins here. This is where atheism starts seeming like a religion to me. People have a right to their religious beliefs, but they shouldn't impose them on others. Mocking believers won't get your message across.

[MonroeMonkey]

This is worth repeating, so I'll bring it back to topic with this. It was lost in the swarm of unrelated posts.



The Early Jesus and Paul as Apocalyptics - Jesus as two DIFFERENT Christs


These comparative verses show that the Jesus of Luke and John is NOT the Jesus of Mark, Matthew, and Paul. Remember, Paul's early epistles and the gospel of Mark are the earliest New Testament books, predating Luke and John by a few decades. The Jesus of John preached the Kingdom of God was coming to earth soon, where the Son of Man would reign as King. Paul, also, taught the end of times was coming very near. Here's some verses to support this.


Matthew 10:23 - When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

In Mark, these two verses are side by side, and remember, there were no chapter and verse to divide these in the original, so they flow into each other, in reality, and are not divided by the chapter number.

For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him the Son of Man also will be ashamed when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.” And He said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God present with power.”




Here is what Jesus says to the Jewish leaders in Mark 14:

But He kept silent and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked Him, saying to Him, “Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?” Jesus said, “I am. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.”

In the earliest gospel, Jesus flat out tells the Jewish leaders THEY will see him coming with the clouds of heaven. BUT after all those men died, and it did NOT happen, Luke, who used Mark as a source of his copying, CHANGED this.

Same passage in Luke 22:

“If You are the Christ, tell us.” But He said to them, “If I tell you, you will by no means believe. And if I also ask you,you will by no means answer Me or let Me go. Hereafter the Son of Man will sit on the right hand of the power of God.” Then they all said, “Are You then the Son of God?” So He said to them, “You rightly say that I am.”

What!? Now the Jewish leaders are not going to see him coming in the clouds? It was changed to cover up the fact these men died and never saw him coming in the clouds.

The early Jesus of Mark and Matthew stated he would return and rule as the Son of Man, within that generation. But the later gospels change those verses! Luke even says, "The kingdom is not coming... it's within you..." Within you? And the latest gospel of John never mentions those verses about the Son of Man and his return in that generation.




Paul tells the church of Thessalonica to watch, for Christ is coming like a thief in the night, and that THEY would be caught up in the clouds. 1 Thess 4. He also tells the Corinthians this: What I mean, brothers, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they had none. 1 Cor 7

2 Thess came as a forgery to cover up Paul's false prophesies by saying, "Brothers, don't worry about the end. Many things have to happen first, like the Son of Perdition being manifested, the great falling away, etc., etc.."



Again, this clearly shows the evolution of Jesus from the earlier to the later gospels. Jesus is apocalyptic in the earliest ones, as is Paul, but after that generation passed and nothing happened, the later gospels and forgeries amend the problems by altering the texts.

[marilyn.monroe]

Apocalypse means prophecy or revelation in my book.

[LessGovernment]

[marilyn - don't worry, we'll get these guys!!!]

Less, May I recommend that you briefly put aside your beliefs and read about evolution?  Many of your statements indicate you have very little understanding about it.

Wait - Xerxes wants me to believe a land-dwelling Quadruped turned into a whale over millions of years - and, subsequently - God doesn't exist. 

The ONLY evidence Xerxes has for this is pretty little drawings derived from the imagination from people that were paid with YOUR tax dollars.  You see, all they found were some bones in the dirt; which only proves an animal died. 

The bones don't have dates stamped on them, nobody knows if the animal had ANY offspring; and, we know fraud is rampant in the evolution game where government funded museums/curators/university professors etc. etc. etc. try to convince the public at large that humans descended from apes, when NO PROOF exists.

Fossil = rapid burial; that COULD mean(possibility = buried in a FLOOD), and that means Noah's worldwide flood is NOT disproven.  Clams in the closed position atop Mt. Everest, palm trees/tropical plants under Antarctica, fossilized dinosaur blood found do NOT always mean "millions of years".  What has happened in Spirit Lake since Mt. St, Helens erupted in 1980 gives a small picture of how petrified trees would be found all over the world, in an upright position, through multiple rock layers that are supposed to be "millions of years" old. 

BOTH evolution theory AND creation theory are equally relative today, despite all our so called human "advances", evolution from "dumb" and "primitive" cavemen to where we are today does not explain giant rock formations seen like Sacsayhuaman[ http://www.world-mysteries.com/mpl_9.htm ] where rocks bigger than anything a modern crane can hoist are fused together ... as far as me embedding Hovind videos for the curious onlookers(or any other video of an evangelist, preacher, pastor that would support the creation account of Genesis) all Xerxes has is ad hominem attacks.  The QUESTIONS raised by any number of evangelists, preachers, pastors or even lay people who are NOT convicted felons(or otherwise a moral/criminal stain) in our modern society are not INVALID because they simply come from the lips of a believer in Jesus Christ(or any religion/belief in a Supreme Being) who has NOT looked at the claims of evolution and decided that evolution theory requires MUCH MORE faith to accept(which by default MUST imply that the creation account/testimony given in the Bible is total hogwash).

BOTH theories are polar opposites of each other.  Hovind's years of study, teaching experience, knowledge, investigation/understanding of (biology, geology, astronomy), reason, logic, approach, theories, evidence, or conclusions specifically are NOT total B.S. because he is only FINANCIALLY outnumbered by the government that funds evolution propaganda in PUBLIC universities, museums, and public schools!  His current incarceration in a Federal prison in Colorado(and the aggressive acts of the Internal Revenue Service/circumstances that put him there) has NOTHING to do with his explanation that there are 6 definitions/divisions of evolution out there to be expanded upon, and, that most certainly there are bait and switch tactics used in public education that lead the school children to believe evolution is FACT(and eventually deduce and outright dismiss creation as a possibility).

All Hovind ever said was, just get the LIES out of the textbooks[ http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp?documentID=13497&printerfriendly=1 ] since taxpayer dollars are used to pay for them, and see what evolution has left to stand on.  Specifically, this very week, I picked up a 2006 textbook from my daughter's high school and saw Xerxes' vestigial hind legs on a whale crap in there [ http://postimage.org/image/6x3xmf64j/ ]; use of the word "PROBABLY" is totally unfair/biased because a public school student may have also been taught by their PARENT, clergy, or other more trustworthy individual of the highest esteem in their eyes that God made the whales on day 5 of creation - WHY is that not an option, since creation has NEVER been disproven?

What these bones were, or, "probably" were - is NOT FACT; so don't propagandize impressionable children(by intimidation of secular AUTHORITY status) that they are PROOF of evolution with tax dollars.  Just study the whale, leave ORIGINS out of it altogether; this is totally unnecessary to imply(common ancestry) from anything other than another KIND of animal over millions of years that no human will ever see, observe, test; whales are simply the offspring of FISH, period.   

Again: these bones in the whale are (1) POSSIBLY, formerly hind legs from a quadruped ancestor: that only fancy, imaginative, speculative drawings born from a few bones found in the dirt by government paid archeologists/university professors etc. indicate - or - (2) used in reproduction today by whales, as they were originally designed by the Creator for. 

When you argue with Xerses, ,who knows both sides of the argument so well, you are unable to make any convincing argument for your case. 

That is because the burden of proof is NOT on me; my religion is NOT tax supported; don't you get that?  Don't you get the BIAS?  Don't you agree that an origins curriculum doesn't MATTER when it comes to a free society, government, and it's ability to constitutionally protect the individual rights of life, liberty, and property of its citizens - and its role in national defense, and the punishment of evil doers?  NASA needs to waste money looking for life on other planets?  That does what for the innocent people being murdered/starved to death here on this planet by their own governments(and now ours/Israel's) in China, North Korea, Iran, Africa, the middle east?

Where does the Philosophy that white Jews and Christians and Jews ought to run the world come from?...funny how their most pesky/convincing critics are the REAL Bible-believers.

My question, Hovind's question - WHY the financial WASTE to PROVE evolution, which in turn heavily IMPLIES God does NOT exist?  WHY?
- Because the PEOPLE want it?  That's TOTAL B.S. that they want the existence of God disproven - a democratic majority is not even close!!!

Try this question?  What if there was evolution?  That doesn't mean you have to give up your belief in Christianity.

Lawfully, as my/our "God is higher than Caesar" philosophy prevails; government has a real problem enslaving FREE PEOPLE - and that is the GOAL of evolution theory - there is NO GOD, only man, and the government it can impose upon others - which always leads to wars, genocide, "lawful" murder, and totalitarian dictatorships/communism...the conscience of MOST human being on the planet outright, instinctively, reject that in favor of personal Liberty and Freedom for all.

I do more than just argue with Xerxes here, and cut and paste Hovind videos on forums where people who hate God mock Christians and Ron Paul -I write a letter to the editor in my community where I argue, like Hovind; just leave the topic of origins OUT of science ... [ http://postimage.org/image/cjzi9t077/ ] ... I don't think this is unreasonable at all, nor do I think I need to PROVE creation.

[MonroeMonkey]

Yet, LessGov NEVER addresses vestiges, living transitions, the comparative anatomy of fossils, the fossil distribution, the geographical distribution of species in relation to genetic drift, ERV's, atavistic traits, etc., etc...

He *completely* ignores the evidences given, without offering a better explanation of reality in the light of creationism. He merely spews out logical fallacies, of which I'm sick of naming. I feel like a teacher having to check his posts for fallacies, of which they're loaded.

He attempted once to address a problem I posted here about Jesus's life, by posting a website by a Jehovah's Witness, which in no way answered the problem. You know why he won't address my last post on the apocalyptic Jesus? Because he can't. I have lots of resources and scholarship to back me on this one; especially, the historical method.

There's not a single pastor/christian in Monroe County that could take me up on this, in relation to the historical method, and come out ahead. I challenge anyone to try. I'm well versed in the history and evolution of Jesus, with plenty of scholarly resources at hand. But, of course, these pastors would never tell their church about these things, because their pay may go down.

I find it hard to believe any seminary trained pastor wouldn't know better...

[MonroeMonkey]

I'd like this thread to remain on "The Impossible Life of Jesus - The Historical Method" and NOT evolution. I have an evolution thread two topics down in this category, in which I'd be more than happy to discuss it, with plenty of evidences to back my side.

[LessGovernment]

Ladies and gentleman, we have now arrived at the "I'm Xerxes and I'm smart - you're all dumb and less educated than me" portion of this thread also...

All these discussion arrive here, and its always the evolutionists who puff their chests out this way.

Johnson asked of me in THIS thread, so I answer him in THIS thread...duh!
As far as addressing all your garbage evidence that tax dollars supports in the wild imagination of hellbent God-deniers, especially when all you do is rip on bible believers and now Pastors; I just reassert what a joke you are for being deliberately blind to your side's end game...which is...eliminate the opposition that exposes our hypocrisy when we use THEIR religion to gain political/secular power/control over humanity.

You are only a student of rationalizing your own God-rejecting belief system, which there has always been a market for; but you are in total denial of what GOOD believers in the Creator(so named in our nation's Declaration of Independence) have done in world history - and - subsequently what EVIL God-deniers and Christ-rejecters have done(and still do) in world history!

God did it, God is not limited, God is the Creator and Ultimate Judge is no dumb unthinking wishful philosophy...now desiring that the population that believes in something higher than what mankind can see, feel, touch be done away with for the benefit of NO ONE is pretty dumb and unthinking.

I defer to the work of God-gifted creationists who have seen what you have posted here for evidence, and spend their time answering your stuff in the scientific vernacular/arguments you desire.  It always gets to the point that you guys abandon science and go to a relgion, like your vestigal/homology arguments; and as smart as you are you fail to see that.

Hovind successfully destroyed enough guys way smarter than you, and that is why he had to be dealt with...as an example...instead of buying himself cars, boats, mansions, wives and boyfriends like other charlatans with his ministry "offerings", he provided employment for people, encouraged lawmakers, pastors, and other believers that our founders were RIGHT about the moral and authoratative attributes of our Creator...

I am sure them evidences you cite have all been addressed elsewhere and your evolution theory is NOT factually evident/provable enough in that politicians would not claim they are Christians in America in order to get elected by a majority Christian electorate.

I have defended my personal beliefs here, and have given some reason to question your motives and positions that are antithetical to this Republic's founding and moral underpinnings...I really don't care what you think about the real existence of Jesus, lying Gospels, or normalcy of homosexual behavior...I care about the America I leave behind to my children and our nation's posterity; so I shed some light on your impossible theory, irritated you in the process, and helped to  preserve our good American belief in the Creator Jesus Christ!

And I did on Father's Day!  While hanging with my 5 kids at a public pool, and doing flips and Splash dives off a 3 meter spring board!!!  Good times!