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lilly

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Re: Breaking News: Supreme Court Upholds Health-Care Individual Mandate
« Reply #30 on: June 28, 2012, 10:38:11 PM »

The last thing that congess should do......  Is usually the first thing Republicans want done.
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Frenchfry

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Re: Breaking News: Supreme Court Upholds Health-Care Individual Mandate
« Reply #31 on: June 28, 2012, 10:52:09 PM »

Health Care Ruling: Business Winners, Losers

For American businesses in general, and the health care industry in particular, the Supreme Court decision to uphold President Obama's overhaul law removes a great deal of uncertainty.

After months of legal challenges, the ruling gives hospitals, insurance companies, biotech firms and drug makers a clearer picture of what will happen when the major provisions of the law are expected to go into effect in 2014.

The legislation is a boon for much of the health care industry by making coverage affordable for tens of millions of uninsured Americans. But not every company will benefit. Medical equipment makers, for example, will be hit with a new tax on their sales.

There will be new fees as well as cuts in some forms of government reimbursement to health providers.

Beyond the health care industry, how will the Supreme Court ruling affect small- and medium-sized businesses?

"I would say there is actually a positive impact in that people know what to expect," said Brian Hamilton, CEO of the financial information firm Sageworks. "It's very important to remember the psychology of people who run privately held companies. If they have time to plan, the legislation is less important than the time horizon."

Hamilton said if the Supreme Court decision had led to confusion over the future of health care reform that would have been much more damaging to many firms than the cost of paying for a change that's been in the works for years.

"For the companies that have more than 50 employees who do not currently have coverage there will be an additional charge. It will be expensive, but they've been anticipating it."

On the markets today, stocks of major insurance companies dropped as analysts sorted through the ruling. UnitedHealth Group declined 3 percent, while WellPoint lost almost 6 percent. Overall, stocks were down today with the Dow Jones industrial average falling 127 points.

"Managed care companies probably did not have too many positives with or without the law," Alex Morozov, Morningstar's director of health care research, said.

Morozov said he believes the managed care sector is undervalued in terms of their share prices. "We think the investor community is still unclear about what the law means to firms in the space," he said.

Hospital chains rose. Hospital Corp. of America was up 7 percent. Quest Diagnostics, which runs laboratories, was up 2.5 percent.

"We think hospitals can breathe a sigh of relief," Morozov said. "Without the mandate the environment would have been rather dire for providers."

The health care law will bring an influx of new patients, which will mitigate other negative trends for the hospital industry, such as a shift to quality of care measures, regulatory scrutiny over premium increases and government incentives to curb overall health care spending growth.

From a consumer standpoint, Thursday's decision is the biggest change in healthcare coverage of our lifetime, said Michael Thompson, principal in PwC's Human Resource Services Group.

The biggest benefits of the health care reform will go to lower-income families who do not have employer-sponsored health plans.

"People generally not covered by employers will be in a position of better access to coverage going forward," Thompson said.

Thompson said there will be a "tremendous" increase in the number of people covered and subsidized by the federal government.

The law establishes health insurance exchanges at the state level, but one of their roles is to administer subsidies offered by the federal government to households whose income is up to 400 percent of the poverty level, essentially the middle class.

Thompson said health care costs in many states will increase with the new rule requiring managed care providers to insure people with pre-existing conditions.

But people eligible for subsidies will see costs decrease as premiums will be based on a percentage of their income, Thompson said.

Morozov said it will be "tough to speculate" how health care costs will change for consumers.

"States are going to exercise significant pressure on managed care companies regarding premium increases," he said.
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/business-winners-losers-health-care-ruling/story?id=16669445#.T-0Xd_WDmSp
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Baby Hitler

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Re: Breaking News: Supreme Court Upholds Health-Care Individual Mandate
« Reply #32 on: June 29, 2012, 02:18:57 AM »

Even paying more doesn't hurt as bad as the smack in the face of "Consent of the governed" but hey Happy 4th of July right?
Do you mean like the insurance you are forced to buy in order to drive a car?
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Professor H

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Re: Breaking News: Supreme Court Upholds Health-Care Individual Mandate
« Reply #33 on: June 29, 2012, 06:54:58 AM »

Don't worry - those Taxes don't kick in until after the elections so you can still feel good about the "Free" healthcare system a few more years.

I will be interesting to see if the penalties for not paying are IRS penalties or Obamacare penalties... 

Most are betting they will be IRS penalties - remember the hiring of more agents as a concern that was Poo poohed away as nothing...
Just like they told us this wasn't a TAX...

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BigRedDog

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Re: Breaking News: Supreme Court Upholds Health-Care Individual Mandate
« Reply #34 on: June 29, 2012, 07:21:54 AM »

And I see someone even captured the screenshot of the early CNN "fail:"



That shot might become as famous as:



And this is what you get if you combine the two above:



Article:  http://www.poynter.org/latest-news/mediawire/179307/meet-gary-he-creator-of-the-obama-as-truman-meme/
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Aunt Lisa

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Re: Breaking News: Supreme Court Upholds Health-Care Individual Mandate
« Reply #35 on: June 29, 2012, 10:46:13 AM »

Do you mean like the insurance you are forced to buy in order to drive a car?

 No, because If I don't have a car, I'm not forced to pay a insurance company. Don't get me wrong FB, I don't want people to go without, even if it's on my dime. But they could have found a better way to go at it than to s*** all over The Constitution. I take that very seriously. And them making a "Tax" so they could get around it, doesn't make me feel any better about it.
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Professor H

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Re: Breaking News: Supreme Court Upholds Health-Care Individual Mandate
« Reply #36 on: June 29, 2012, 12:03:54 PM »

Good question with no answers yet - how much will that tax be?

It has been presented as an Equivalent to a single person buying health care insurance - would probably be at least $300/month   so the tax will likely be 12 X 300 or $3600 - probably what they will get back in EIC.
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First, it was not a strip bar, it was an erotic club. And second, what can I say? I'm a night owl.
Marion Berry

But we have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.
Nancy Pelosi

Baby Hitler

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Re: Breaking News: Supreme Court Upholds Health-Care Individual Mandate
« Reply #37 on: June 29, 2012, 12:20:09 PM »

No, because If I don't have a car, I'm not forced to pay a insurance company. Don't get me wrong FB, I don't want people to go without, even if it's on my dime. But they could have found a better way to go at it than to s*** all over The Constitution. I take that very seriously. And them making a "Tax" so they could get around it, doesn't make me feel any better about it.
You might not pay an insurance company if you don't own a car, but if you go anywhere with anyone else, they are paying the insurance on you.

Eventually, everyone has to go to the doctor, and the longer that some put it off, the worse it is.

There are assistance programs to help those who can't afford it, and after looking over some of the bills I've received this year, you really can't afford NOT to have insurance. One bill I got was originally for $225, the amount the insurance allowed was $55 and the amount they paid was $35, leaving me with $20 to pay. If I didn't have insurance, I would have been responsible for the original $225.

That was just one bill. I've got plenty of others.

Other things that this legislation has brought is:

No more limits on what the insurance company says it will pay for your health.
You can't be dropped from their insurance because of illness.
If they don't spend at least 80% of the premiums they receive on actual health care, they have to pay it back.
Children can be covered until they are 26.
You can get coverage if you have a pre-existing  condition.

And no, they don't have a panel set up so that when you reach 75, they determine whether or not it is financially responsible to keep you alive or give you treatment.

There are so many lies flying around out there about this that one person just can't keep up with them all.
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Aunt Lisa

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Re: Breaking News: Supreme Court Upholds Health-Care Individual Mandate
« Reply #38 on: June 29, 2012, 12:34:50 PM »


 My big worry is...HOW YOU GOING TO MAKE THEM PAY???? From my understanding the TAX :o is pretty low if they decide not to pay for their health care. And there is not much they can do if people don't pay the tax either!!!! So you have thousands that will dodge their responsibility. Say they don't pay in for 5yrs then when they get sick now they buy in???? How's that going to work?
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old salt

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Re: Breaking News: Supreme Court Upholds Health-Care Individual Mandate
« Reply #39 on: June 29, 2012, 01:39:46 PM »

Some comments from around the web:

“I assume that we’re all looking forward to seeing Obama campaign on his large middle class tax hike. Pass the popcorn!”

The last time Democrats gloated this hard after a health care victory, they lost 60 House seats.

I, for one, look forward to having my colon checked by the DMV and my surgeon required to have the same competency level as the esteemed members of the TSA.

Today I engaged in a vast number of non-activities I didn’t pay for. I feel like such a free loader.


And for a list of taxes, here they are  (although they could all be lies):

http://atr.org/full-list-obamacare-tax-hikes-a6996
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SMASH

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Re: Breaking News: Supreme Court Upholds Health-Care Individual Mandate
« Reply #40 on: June 30, 2012, 12:09:15 AM »

Hey, let's try this one again.
It is so applicable over and over again.
And, for you Republicans and Democrats out there pay particular attention at 2 minutes and 40 seconds!
Just in case you don't get it yet.

As a public service announcement for you Republicans out there; Romney is NO different than Il Duce Barry Soetoro!

If you didn't get it with the Bank Bailouts, and you slept through the assault on 200 years of contract law with the Auto Company Bailouts, and you missed the implosion of the housing market, and you fail to see the increase in your food and gasoline prices, as our pal George Carlin said, just remain willfully IGNORANT and OBEY!

George Carlin ~ Owners of the country.wmv
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Forsythia

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Re: Breaking News: Supreme Court Upholds Health-Care Individual Mandate
« Reply #41 on: June 30, 2012, 07:02:04 AM »

Some comments from around the web:

“I assume that we’re all looking forward to seeing Obama campaign on his large middle class tax hike. Pass the popcorn!”

The last time Democrats gloated this hard after a health care victory, they lost 60 House seats.

I, for one, look forward to having my colon checked by the DMV and my surgeon required to have the same competency level as the esteemed members of the TSA.

Today I engaged in a vast number of non-activities I didn’t pay for. I feel like such a free loader.


And for a list of taxes, here they are  (although they could all be lies):

http://atr.org/full-list-obamacare-tax-hikes-a6996

That's the thing you conservatives don't understand, it will actually be a tax DECREASE.  Why?  Because the American public is already paying for everyone else's medical bills.  The amount of money this will save the tax payer significantly out weighs the "tax".
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marilyn.monroe

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Re: Breaking News: Supreme Court Upholds Health-Care Individual Mandate
« Reply #42 on: June 30, 2012, 08:35:59 AM »

James Madison advocated for the ratification of the Constitution in The Federalist and at the Virginia ratifying convention upon a narrow construction of the clause, asserting that spending must be at least tangentially tied to one of the other specifically enumerated powers, such as regulating interstate or foreign commerce, or providing for the military, as the General Welfare Clause is not a specific grant of power, but a statement of purpose qualifying the power to tax.[16][17]
 Alexander Hamilton, only after the Constitution had been ratified,[18] argued for a broad interpretation which viewed spending as an enumerated power Congress could exercise independently to benefit the general welfare, such as to assist national needs in agriculture or education, provided that the spending is general in nature and does not favor any specific section of the country over any other.[19]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxing_and_Spending_Clause

I don't think the "tax" is Constitutional.
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Professor H

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Re: Breaking News: Supreme Court Upholds Health-Care Individual Mandate
« Reply #43 on: June 30, 2012, 01:38:08 PM »

I don't think the "tax" is Constitutional.
A little late now - as the Supreme Court said it is...

Now it has been defined as a Tax and not a penalty - The question is will the Democrats run from it or embrace it during their campaigning.

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First, it was not a strip bar, it was an erotic club. And second, what can I say? I'm a night owl.
Marion Berry

But we have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.
Nancy Pelosi

Frenchfry

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2% will end up paying the "tax"
« Reply #44 on: June 30, 2012, 02:00:11 PM »

GOP has tax fever after Supreme Court ruling
After the Supreme Court upheld a tax for the individual mandate in the Affordable Care Act, right-wing pundits went nuts complaining about taxes -- even though only 2 percent of the population will end up paying that tax.

GOP has tax fever after Supreme Court ruling


Crazy Republicans React to Supreme Court Obamacare Ruling
Watch "Mean" Jean Schmidt and Michael Savage react to the Supreme Court's ruling on Obamacare. Cenk Uygur, Richard Eskow and Michael Shure discuss some of the crazy theories coming from the right on why the court ruled the way they did
Crazy Republicans React to Supreme Court Obamacare Ruling


Republican Threatening Armed Rebellion Over Obamacare
*Matt Davis, a Michigan attorney who was once the state Republican Party's spokesman, sent out an email that asked whether armed rebellion would be justified in the wake of the court's decision. According to Michigan Capital Confidential, a local news service that originally reported the missive, Davis sent it "moments after the Supreme Court ruling to numerous new media outlets and limited government activists."
Republican Threatening Armed Rebellion Over Obamacare
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