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ducksoup

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Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #105 on: July 11, 2012, 03:11:58 PM »

Give me a break.  What dire predictions have come true from the govt., scientists in the last 100 years?  Global cooling?  Global warming?  The ozone?  Running out of fuel in 50 years (from the 1970's)? CO2 is ruining the climate (kill the cows) ? The seas are rising/falling?


Gosh, if we could just use wind & solar.  Like I haven't heard that for 50 years.  If only they could use more sheeple's money, then they could maybe, hopefully, possibly have a solution in 10, 15, 20 years.

Nothing but abject fear mongering to suck $ from the sheeple.  I ain't playing that game any more.


Anymore?  So, you are cool with the possibility that in 50 years the human population could become extinct.  But, by then you will be dead anyway, so who cares.  You worked and got good wages, so now that you collect social security then those wages need to go DOWN.  You get your SS and now those after you don’t need it, so kill it off - it is YOUR TAX DOLLARS that you probably don’t even pay on SS.  Maybe you got a pension, and now have to stop those after you to.  So, why not be selfish and not care if you kill a planet.  After all, those taxes you probably don’t pay are more important, that dollar fifty you save is worth letting the human species become extinct.

The right uses “what about the children” effectively as propaganda, but don’t give a crap about the children.  You go look your grandchild in the eyes and tell him/her that you are not playing that game anymore (that you never did) and they will die in 40 or 50 years when the human species becomes extinct, but, on the plus side, if they are old enough to work for a dime a day it will save them a dollar or two a year in taxes.  I bet they will love you for that trade... they will know from you that money is forever, even if people are not.

As for the first part, there is no need to say anything as you already clearly state you will not listen to anything except the Faux News spin.
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excelsior

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Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #106 on: July 11, 2012, 04:27:57 PM »


Anymore?  So, you are cool with the possibility that in 50 years the human population could become extinct.  But, by then you will be dead anyway, so who cares.  You worked and got good wages, so now that you collect social security then those wages need to go DOWN.  You get your SS and now those after you don’t need it, so kill it off - it is YOUR TAX DOLLARS that you probably don’t even pay on SS.  Maybe you got a pension, and now have to stop those after you to.  So, why not be selfish and not care if you kill a planet.  After all, those taxes you probably don’t pay are more important, that dollar fifty you save is worth letting the human species become extinct.

The right uses “what about the children” effectively as propaganda, but don’t give a crap about the children.  You go look your grandchild in the eyes and tell him/her that you are not playing that game anymore (that you never did) and they will die in 40 or 50 years when the human species becomes extinct, but, on the plus side, if they are old enough to work for a dime a day it will save them a dollar or two a year in taxes.  I bet they will love you for that trade... they will know from you that money is forever, even if people are not.

As for the first part, there is no need to say anything as you already clearly state you will not listen to anything except the Faux News spin.


Your propagandistic argument is strong on the transfer technique and while offering little to no scientific correlation.
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Tiny

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Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #107 on: July 11, 2012, 05:13:57 PM »


Anymore?  So, you are cool with the possibility that in 50 years the human population could become extinct.  But, by then you will be dead anyway, so who cares.  You worked and got good wages, so now that you collect social security then those wages need to go DOWN.  You get your SS and now those after you don’t need it, so kill it off - it is YOUR TAX DOLLARS that you probably don’t even pay on SS.  Maybe you got a pension, and now have to stop those after you to.  So, why not be selfish and not care if you kill a planet.  After all, those taxes you probably don’t pay are more important, that dollar fifty you save is worth letting the human species become extinct.

The right uses “what about the children” effectively as propaganda, but don’t give a crap about the children.  You go look your grandchild in the eyes and tell him/her that you are not playing that game anymore (that you never did) and they will die in 40 or 50 years when the human species becomes extinct, but, on the plus side, if they are old enough to work for a dime a day it will save them a dollar or two a year in taxes.  I bet they will love you for that trade... they will know from you that money is forever, even if people are not.

As for the first part, there is no need to say anything as you already clearly state you will not listen to anything except the Faux News spin.


This is exactly why no one takes global warming seriously. People are not going to be extinct in 50 years because of climate change. Climate change has been going on since the Earth was formed. Over the last 50,000 years 65 percent of the mammal species weighing over 44kg have gone extinct and it wasn't man that caused it. When climates change animals and Man either adapt or go extinct, I think man has a pretty good chance of surviving climate change. It's war and mad men that will make man extinct.

"Climate change has been a significant factor in mass mammal extinction over most of the last fifty thousand years, according to an international team.

The team used global data modelling to build continental 'climate footprints' and map them on to extinction data.

"Between 50,000 and 3,000 years before present (BP), 65 percent of mammal species weighing over 44kg went extinct, together with a lower proportion of small mammals," says lead author Dr David Nogues-Bravo from the University of Copenhagen.

"Why these species became extinct in such large numbers has been hotly debated for over a century."

Over most of the last 50,000 years, the global climate became colder and drier, reaching full glacial conditions 21,000 years ago.

Since then, it's has become warmer, leading to colonization of new regions by humans - and many believed that it was this human colonization that cause the mass extinctions.

The study shows that climate change had a global influence over extinctions throughout the late quaternary, but the level of extinction seems to be related to each continent’s footprint of climate change.

In Africa, for example, where the climate changed relatively little, there were fewer extinctions. However, in North America, which experienced more climate change, more species suffered extinction."

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Frenchfry

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Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #108 on: July 11, 2012, 07:51:05 PM »

Global Warming Accelerating, Say Scientists
New evidence shows changing speed of climate change.
And for the first time, a government-backed report links the recent wild weather to man-made causes.
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/global-warming-accelerating-scientists-16751100


Climate Change or Just Hot Weather?
George Will weighed in on the weather recently on ABC's "This Week," Will said "Come the winter there will be a cold snap, lots of snow, and the same guys, like [Washington Post columnist] E.J. [Dionne], will start lecturing us. There's a difference between weather and climate. I agree with that. We're having some hot weather. Get over it."
Such natural looking hair George..   8*

Climate Change or Just Hot Weather?
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ducksoup

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Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #109 on: July 11, 2012, 10:32:10 PM »

This is exactly why no one takes global warming seriously. People are not going to be extinct in 50 years because of climate change. Climate change has been going on since the Earth was formed. Over the last 50,000 years 65 percent of the mammal species weighing over 44kg have gone extinct and it wasn't man that caused it. When climates change animals and Man either adapt or go extinct, I think man has a pretty good chance of surviving climate change. It's war and mad men that will make man extinct.

"Climate change has been a significant factor in mass mammal extinction over most of the last fifty thousand years, according to an international team.

The team used global data modelling to build continental 'climate footprints' and map them on to extinction data.

"Between 50,000 and 3,000 years before present (BP), 65 percent of mammal species weighing over 44kg went extinct, together with a lower proportion of small mammals," says lead author Dr David Nogues-Bravo from the University of Copenhagen.

"Why these species became extinct in such large numbers has been hotly debated for over a century."

Over most of the last 50,000 years, the global climate became colder and drier, reaching full glacial conditions 21,000 years ago.

Since then, it's has become warmer, leading to colonization of new regions by humans - and many believed that it was this human colonization that cause the mass extinctions.

The study shows that climate change had a global influence over extinctions throughout the late quaternary, but the level of extinction seems to be related to each continent’s footprint of climate change.

In Africa, for example, where the climate changed relatively little, there were fewer extinctions. However, in North America, which experienced more climate change, more species suffered extinction."




Tiny, you should have realized if you read the topic, which I was responding to an individual that specifically states that he has not and will not listen to anything but the Faux News viewpoint.  He claims anything scientific that supports anything but that view is “junk science”.

Yes, climates have changed because of outside forces.  However, to say that man CANNOT be having an effect is equal to saying that because forest fires can be started by nature, then man cannot start forest fires.
 
I agree that if the climate changes drastically then man will adapt or go extinct.  That is a correct observation, which is what I was using when I said “possibly”.

Interesting article you quoted (without citation).  It shows that scientists have used the same methods as the current climate change science to show that past events have changed the climate and caused extinction.  It supports the “possibility” of human extinction from a climate change event.  It does NOT say it is guaranteed. 

“It's war and mad men that will make man extinct.”

I fear the supposedly “sane” ones more.  They seem to be the ones that do the most damage in the name of prevention...
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ducksoup

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Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #110 on: July 11, 2012, 10:35:06 PM »


Your propagandistic argument is strong on the transfer technique and while offering little to no scientific correlation.
No kidding!  And if you read more of the topic you would know why... 
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LMayzlin

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Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #111 on: July 12, 2012, 04:03:49 AM »

the amount of actual impact that humans have on global climate changes is miniscule...compared to natural impacts...

For those in favor of believing that it's not crap science, how come none of you are yapping about Centralia, PA ... I know ... you are saying "Centralia, what?"  .. google is your friend.  It's been on fire and emitting toxins into the atmosphere for over 40 years --

There's no rush to put out that fire by the people or the government... actually the government has decided it is best to just wipe it off the map and pretend it never existed.

I am not, nor have I ever been, on the Al Gore bandwagon -- warming, cooling, warming, cooling... C'est La Vie.

And folks, before you get out your torches -- this IS what they teach in the science classes at our finest secondary school in Monroe -- MCCC...if you feel THEY are not pushing the propaganda, take it up with the Board of Trustees -- they might like to hear from you.
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Forsythia

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Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #112 on: July 12, 2012, 07:13:48 AM »

Ummm...the reason it hasn't been put out is because it's underground and difficult to get to.  Not to mention most of the gasses get trapped and filtered through the earth.  They're not getting directly pushed into the atmosphere.  I agree, it should be put out and we should do anything we can to stop it.  That still doesn't change the fact that climate change is real.
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livewire

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Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #113 on: July 12, 2012, 07:42:56 AM »

Yeah, CO2 is bad.  Now write me a check, please.



Financial disclosure documents released before the 2000 election put the Gore family's net worth at $1 million to $2 million. After years of public service--and four kids needing high-priced educations--Al and Tipper used to fret occasionally about money. Not anymore. They have a new multimillion-dollar home in a tony section of Nashville and a family home in Virginia, and have recently bought a multimillion-dollar condo at the St. Regis condo/hotel in San Francisco. Available data indicate a net worth well in excess of $100 million.


http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/117/features-gore.html
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ducksoup

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Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #114 on: July 12, 2012, 08:09:31 AM »

the amount of actual impact that humans have on global climate changes is miniscule...compared to natural impacts...

For those in favor of believing that it's not crap science, how come none of you are yapping about Centralia, PA ... I know ... you are saying "Centralia, what?"  .. google is your friend.  It's been on fire and emitting toxins into the atmosphere for over 40 years --

There's no rush to put out that fire by the people or the government... actually the government has decided it is best to just wipe it off the map and pretend it never existed.

I am not, nor have I ever been, on the Al Gore bandwagon -- warming, cooling, warming, cooling... C'est La Vie.

And folks, before you get out your torches -- this IS what they teach in the science classes at our finest secondary school in Monroe -- MCCC...if you feel THEY are not pushing the propaganda, take it up with the Board of Trustees -- they might like to hear from you.


Are you implying that the Centralia fire produces more greenhouse gasses than all cars and factories in the world?

Or are you saying that a miniscule (compared to global size) local event does not cause global climate change?

Are you saying a relatively small local event causes no climate change so no matter what man does it won’t affect the climate?

As per the last, are you implying that MCCC does not teach scientific fact?  Because it isn’t a debate about scientific measures that show the rise of the global yearly average land temperatures, or the rise of the global ocean temperatures.
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ducksoup

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Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #115 on: July 12, 2012, 08:12:35 AM »

Yeah, CO2 is bad.  Now write me a check, please.



Financial disclosure documents released before the 2000 election put the Gore family's net worth at $1 million to $2 million. After years of public service--and four kids needing high-priced educations--Al and Tipper used to fret occasionally about money. Not anymore. They have a new multimillion-dollar home in a tony section of Nashville and a family home in Virginia, and have recently bought a multimillion-dollar condo at the St. Regis condo/hotel in San Francisco. Available data indicate a net worth well in excess of $100 million.


http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/117/features-gore.html

Cool, we have a staunch Republican arguing that getting rich is a bad thing...

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livewire

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Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #116 on: July 12, 2012, 09:03:38 AM »

Cool, we have a staunch Republican arguing that getting rich is a bad thing...

No, you are wrong on several counts.  Why do the lefties on this forum insist on seeing things that aren't there?

I am a staunch conservative.  I am NOT a Republican.  There is a huge difference.  The current Republican Party does NOT reflect my political views.  They spend WAY too much taxpayer money, and restrict law abiding citizens WAY too much.

I never said getting rich was bad.  Hell, I'm all for it!  And I REALLY don't have a problem with Al Gore making millions of dollars on his global warming scam.  I really don't!  On the contrary, I applaud him!  I wish I could make that kind of money, and collect $175,000 for giving a speech!

The point of my post went right over your head, evidently.  My point is this:  If you want to know the truth, follow the money.  ALWAYS follow the money.  (i.e. Al Gore, Solyndra, SpectraWatt, Evergreen Solar, and on, and on, and on).


Global warming exists... and global cooling also exists.  It just depends on which section of time you look at, in order to strengthen your premise, which ever one you happen to believe.  And your premise will be which ever one makes you more money.  Understand now?
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When I was a little boy, my mother spoke of a prophecy, of a time when all the world would be covered in darkness and the fate of all of mankind would be decided. One night I finally got the courage to ask my mother why God had changed, why He was so angry with His children. “I don’t know,” she said as she tucked the covers around me. “I guess He just got tired of all the bullshlt.”

marilyn.monroe

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Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #117 on: July 12, 2012, 09:06:38 AM »

the amount of actual impact that humans have on global climate changes is miniscule...compared to natural impacts...

For those in favor of believing that it's not crap science, how come none of you are yapping about Centralia, PA ... I know ... you are saying "Centralia, what?"  .. google is your friend.  It's been on fire and emitting toxins into the atmosphere for over 40 years --

There's no rush to put out that fire by the people or the government... actually the government has decided it is best to just wipe it off the map and pretend it never existed.

I am not, nor have I ever been, on the Al Gore bandwagon -- warming, cooling, warming, cooling... C'est La Vie.

And folks, before you get out your torches -- this IS what they teach in the science classes at our finest secondary school in Monroe -- MCCC...if you feel THEY are not pushing the propaganda, take it up with the Board of Trustees -- they might like to hear from you.
What good will the atmosphere do if the earth is a waste dump? Pollution is everywhere, it's so bad even humans are contaminated.
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ducksoup

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Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #118 on: July 12, 2012, 10:17:08 AM »

No, you are wrong on several counts.  Why do the lefties on this forum insist on seeing things that aren't there?

I am a staunch conservative.  I am NOT a Republican.  There is a huge difference.  The current Republican Party does NOT reflect my political views.  They spend WAY too much taxpayer money, and restrict law abiding citizens WAY too much.

I never said getting rich was bad.  Hell, I'm all for it!  And I REALLY don't have a problem with Al Gore making millions of dollars on his global warming scam.  I really don't!  On the contrary, I applaud him!  I wish I could make that kind of money, and collect $175,000 for giving a speech!

The point of my post went right over your head, evidently.  My point is this:  If you want to know the truth, follow the money.  ALWAYS follow the money.  (i.e. Al Gore, Solyndra, SpectraWatt, Evergreen Solar, and on, and on, and on).


Global warming exists... and global cooling also exists.  It just depends on which section of time you look at, in order to strengthen your premise, which ever one you happen to believe.  And your premise will be which ever one makes you more money.  Understand now?

Umm, it was snark...

I see no reason it is pertinent to the discussion.  Yes, he made a second career off of climate change.  He (alone) didn’t create climate change.   He just brought attention to it.  Better than most retiring politician’s that go into lobbying in my opinion.

The big problem with your premise of “follow the money” is that climate change science FACT occurred BEFORE Al Gore made it his cause.

Wouldn’t “follow the money” also be valid for climate deniers?  That is majorly funded by two groups, oil companies, and big corporations and so-called “small businesses” that depend on polluting for profit.  Wouldn’t it seem likely that these would push false science to promote their paid for agenda?  As a side note... Why are companies that make millions or billions of dollars allowed to be called “small business” as the Koch’s and others are.  That was an example and agree that there must be liberal companies that do it too.  Just the premise that a company making millions or billions can be classified as “small business”.

Yes, the climate changes...   Yet, throughout history, 10,000 years anyway, the climate globally is pretty constant. Some changes year to year but pretty constant... until the industrial age and climate takes an upward trend that is not stopping or slowing, but is going faster than predicated.  Even our local drought and heatwave could be just a local climate blip.  What climate change is about is that it has human aggravators involved is making a natural occurrence more extreme.  Perhaps we would have an upwards, warming cycle, but that humans are making that upward trend go extreme.

Still, even bigger hurricanes and more violent storms, more severe droughts, more expansive or hotter heatwaves are not climate change, they are symptoms of climate change.  There is a GLOBAL warming of the land and of the oceans.  Even the deniers have to admit that. 
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livewire

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Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #119 on: July 12, 2012, 06:15:08 PM »


Wouldn’t “follow the money” also be valid for climate deniers?  Wouldn’t it seem likely that these would push false science to promote their paid for agenda? 

Yes, I agree that is possible.

As a side note... Why are companies that make millions or billions of dollars allowed to be called “small business” as the Koch’s and others are.  That was an example and agree that there must be liberal companies that do it too.  Just the premise that a company making millions or billions can be classified as “small business”.

Yes, I agree that is wrong.  To me, a business with gross revenue of less than ten million dollars is a "small business".  Anything bigger is either medium or big business.  JMHO.
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When I was a little boy, my mother spoke of a prophecy, of a time when all the world would be covered in darkness and the fate of all of mankind would be decided. One night I finally got the courage to ask my mother why God had changed, why He was so angry with His children. “I don’t know,” she said as she tucked the covers around me. “I guess He just got tired of all the bullshlt.”
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