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Baggins

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Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #165 on: August 03, 2012, 02:29:08 PM »

Here's another thought to ponder on...If all of the worlds reserves were used, they would produce 5 time the amount of carbon that was determined acceptable...We are going to have to change our ways or be living in Mad Max time in our lifetimes...And, that's not a joke!

In fact, I wish the oil would have run out before this, but it's already set for our doom, well, maybe not our doom(we can adapt, though it shouldn't be the answer), but the doom for the planet.
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Flanders

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Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #166 on: August 03, 2012, 02:43:53 PM »

Here's another thought to ponder on...If all of the worlds reserves were used, they would produce 5 time the amount of carbon that was determined acceptable...We are going to have to change our ways or be living in Mad Max time in our lifetimes...And, that's not a joke!

In fact, I wish the oil would have run out before this, but it's already set for our doom, well, maybe not our doom(we can adapt, though it shouldn't be the answer), but the doom for the planet.

LOL too many fantasy books/movies Baggins.

So you think we can use up all of the reserves in our lifetime to get this Mad Max effect?
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Baggins

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Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #167 on: August 03, 2012, 03:38:57 PM »

LOL too many fantasy books/movies Baggins.

So you think we can use up all of the reserves in our lifetime to get this Mad Max effect?

No, that isn't what I said...

I said if all of the reserves we have today were to be used it will produce 5 time the amount of carbon that we have deemed acceptable.  The atmosphere can only hold so much before it becomes a serious problem.  You don't believe any of this so it's pointless to try to explain it any further.  As for the Mad Max comment, I said I wish the fuel would run out so we would be forced to turn to alternatives, as with everything man does, we wait til it's a crisis before any action is taken...And that's just DUMB!

Laugh all you want, and keep your head in the sand...(tar sands that is)... 8*
« Last Edit: August 03, 2012, 03:42:56 PM by Baggins »
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Flanders

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Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #168 on: August 03, 2012, 04:40:13 PM »

You said we will be living like Mad Max in our lifetimes. So how exactly is this possible then if fuel won't run out?
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Baby Hitler

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Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #169 on: August 05, 2012, 07:12:29 PM »

http://www.care2.com/causes/climate-change-deniers-own-study-changes-his-mind.html

Professor Richard Muller, one of the nation’s foremost climate change deniers, has finally changed his views on global warming thanks to a new study… his own. After conducting research on the subject, Muller says he has had a “total turnaround” and is no longer skeptical about the threats of greenhouse gases, according to The Guardian.

The results of Muller’s study, the Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature or BEST project, showed that the land temperature has risen 2.5 degrees Fahrenheit in the past 250 years, with the majority of that occurring in the last 50 years alone. Even more damningly, the data suggests that the increase is due almost exclusively to human production of greenhouse gases.

Muller, a physicist, admits he was surprised by the findings, but will not deny climate change anymore. “As scientists, it is our duty to let the evidence change our minds,” he said.

The results of the BEST study are even more impressive considering the source. Charles Koch, one of the multi-billionaire brothers who are well known for bankrolling the campaign to deny climate change, funded the research in large part. Fortunately, Muller made an honest go of the study rather than just melding the data to fix his preexisting assumptions.

What distinguishes BEST from previous studies is the massive number of earth temperatures collected to use as the data. Muller’s team amassed over 14 million temperature observations from over 40,000 places, some going back as far as 1753. That’s more than five times the number of temperatures used in previous climate change studies. Furthermore, the data was analyzed by a computer, not humans, to eliminate the bias factor that previous global warming deniers have cited.

The study also examined other popular theories for temperature rise like increased solar activity and volcano eruptions, but neither showed much of a correlation. “Much to my surprise, by far the best match came to the record of atmospheric carbon dioxide,” said Muller.

During the study, another leading climate change denier, Anthony Watts, was consulted on the methodology and found it to be a good way to analyze the topic. “I’m prepared to accept whatever result they produce, even if it proves my premise wrong,” Watts said. Since BEST’s results have been released, however, Watts has waffled on this position.

Although scholars generally wait to have their research peer reviewed before releasing all of the data, Muller published the complete study early on to address the inevitable concerns from other climate change skeptics.

“I embarked on this analysis to answer questions that, to my mind, had not been answered,” said Muller. “I hope that the Berkeley Earth analysis will help settle the scientific debate regarding global warming and its human causes.”

Given the current rate of carbon emissions, Muller predicts that the temperature of the earth will rise an additional 1.5 degrees in the upcoming 50 years. He concedes that now “comes the difficult part: agreeing across the political and diplomatic spectrum about what can and should be done.”

Here’s hoping that we don’t have to wait for every climate change denier to conduct his or her own research before acknowledging and addressing the growing problem of global warming.


Other sources: http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20120805/OPINION04/308050037/Neela-Banerjee-climate-change-denier-no-more

http://news.yahoo.com/skeptic-finds-now-agrees-global-warming-real-142616605.html
« Last Edit: August 05, 2012, 07:14:53 PM by Fluffy Bunnies »
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sammy

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Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #170 on: August 05, 2012, 08:26:22 PM »

If ancient history is a good source for what has happened in the past, global warming will just keep on chugging, regardless of what we weaklings do to try to stop it.  Could Man have stopped the ice ages? I sorta doubt it. we are at the mercy of nature, no matter how powerful we think we are. We've only been here a short while, in the larger scheme of things. It is interesting that in the span of a few years, the "chicken littles" have changed from global warming to climate change. Of course, climate changes. I have flown over mountain ranges which, without a doubt, were gouged out by glaciers inexorably sliding South. Nature does what nature does, and yet we think we can stop that from happening? I sorta doubt it.
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Baby Hitler

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Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #171 on: August 05, 2012, 11:31:25 PM »

I sorta doubt it.
Spoken like a true scientist. 8*
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Baggins

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Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #172 on: August 05, 2012, 11:37:10 PM »

You said we will be living like Mad Max in our lifetimes. So how exactly is this possible then if fuel won't run out?

OK, it was a bad analogy... 8*   How about something on the lines of "the road"...?

Go back and read my explanation, you seem to be not getting the point...Forget Mad Max and use that brain. 
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Flanders

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Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #173 on: August 06, 2012, 08:59:33 AM »

OK, it was a bad analogy... 8*   How about something on the lines of "the road"...?

Go back and read my explanation, you seem to be not getting the point...Forget Mad Max and use that brain. 

Trust me Baggins I have to use my brain every time I read your posts to try and sort out the ridiculous BS from something of any substance; ie Mad Max analogies.

Guess I'd better stop searching for that limited '73 Ford XB Falcon Hardtop then.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2012, 09:09:22 AM by Flanders »
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jbs49238

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Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #174 on: August 06, 2012, 04:17:57 PM »

Spoken like a true scientist. 8*

Well today a "scientist" would see a 20 degree temp shift in an hour and call it "extreme weather" while the rest of us would call it a cold front.

Every weather event is sensationalized in today's world for the purpose of furthering support for "climate change".  They used to say "global warming" but that all fell apart when we had a brutally cold winter a few years ago so now it is "climate change".  This way the climate change crowd can now win no matter what happens too cold, too hot, too wet, too dry, normal for longer than normal... ALL CLIMATE CHANGE.  The movement will never end, just morph and transform to make ridiculous what is 100% usual.

The earth is going through a warm cycle, we all get it, it has happened before probably will again long after we are gone.
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Frenchfry

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Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #175 on: August 07, 2012, 10:17:18 AM »

James Hansen's latest findings linking extreme weather to climate change is science society cannot afford to ignore.

The first scientist to alert Americans to the prospect that human-caused climate change and global warming was already upon us was NASA climatologist James Hansen. In a sweltering Senate hall during the hot, dry summer of 1988, Hansen announced that "it is time to stop waffling.... The evidence is pretty strong that the [human-amplified] greenhouse effect is here."

At the time, many scientists felt his announcement to be premature. I was among them.

I was a young graduate student researching the importance of natural – rather than human-caused – variations in temperature, and I felt that the "signal" of human-caused climate change had not yet emerged from the "noise" of natural, long-term climate variation. As I discuss in my book, The Hockey Stick and the Climate Wars, scientists by their very nature tend to be conservative, even reticent, when it comes to discussing findings and observations that lie at the forefront of our understanding and that aren't yet part of the "accepted" body of scientific knowledge.

Dire warning

Hansen, it turns out, was right, and the critics were wrong. Rather than being reckless, as some of his critics charged, his announcement to the world proved to be prescient – and his critics were proven overly cautious.

Given the prescience of Hansen's science, we would be unwise to ignore his latest, more dire warning.

In a paper published today in the prestigious journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, Hansen and two colleagues argue convincingly that climate change is now not only upon us, but in fact we are fully immersed in it. Much of the extreme weather we have witnessed in recent years almost certainly contains a human-induced component.

Hansen, in his latest paper, shows that the increase in probability of hot summers due to global warming is such that what was once considered an unusually hot summer has now become typical, and what was once considered typical will soon become a thing of the past – a summer too improbably cool to anymore expect.

We need to view this summer's extreme weather in this wider context.

Not random

It is not simply a set of random events occurring in isolation, but part of a broader emerging pattern. We are seeing, in much of the extreme weather we are experiencing, the "loading of the weather dice." Over the past decade, records for daily maximum high temperatures in the U.S. have been broken at twice the rate we would expect from chance alone. Think of this as rolling double sixes twice as often as you'd expect – something you would readily notice in a high stakes game of dice. Thus far this year, that ratio is close to 10 to 1.  That's double sixes coming up ten times as often as you expect.

So the record-breaking heat this summer over so much of the United States, where records that have stood since the Dust Bowl years of the 1930s are now dropping like flies, isn't just a fluke of nature; it is the loading of the weather dice playing out in real time.

The record heat – and the dry soils associated with it – played a role in the unprecedented forest fires that wrought death and destruction in Colorado and New Mexico. It played a role in the hot and bone-dry conditions over the nation's breadbasket that has decimated U.S. agricultural yields. It played a role in the unprecedented 50 percent of the U.S. finding itself in extreme drought.

Other threats


Climate change is also threatening us in other ways of course, subjecting our coastal cities to increased erosion and inundation from rising sea level, and massive flooding events associated with an atmosphere that has warmed by nearly 2˚F, holding roughly 4 percent more water vapor than it used to – water vapor that is available to feed flooding rains when atmospheric conditions are right.

The state of Oklahoma became the hottest state ever with last summer's record heat. It is sadly ironic that the state's senior senator, Republican James Inhofe, has dismissed human-caused climate change as the "greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the American people." Just last week he insisted that concern over the impacts of climate change has "completely collapsed." This as Oklahoma City has just seen 18 days in a row over 100˚F (with more predicted to follow), Tulsa saw 112˚F Sunday, and 11 separate wildfires are burning in the state, with historic Route 66 and other state highways and interstates all closed.

The time for debate about the reality of human-caused climate change has now passed. We can have a good faith debate about how to deal with the problem – how to reduce future climate change and adapt to what is already upon us to reduce the risks that climate change poses to society. But we can no longer simply bury our heads in the sand.

Michael E. Mann is a member of the Pennsylvania State University faculty, where he directs the Penn State Earth System Science Center. He is author of The Hockey Stick and the Climate Wars, which describes his role as an accidental and reluctant public figure in the debate over human-caused climate change.
http://wwwp.dailyclimate.org/tdc-newsroom/2012/08/weather-extremes
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old salt

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Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #176 on: August 07, 2012, 03:19:42 PM »

http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=42563

...It doesn’t fool us, this “scientific consensus,” and I daresay there are millions upon millions of us who will not be herded or packed and stacked or prevented from owning private property, etc., so that those who have adopted a ruling elite position, along with the science and results they fund in some vicious cycle of graft, can socially engineer the planet in a way they find pleasing.  An increase in people means a (potential) increase in technological and intellectual development; and from there is where will come solutions to any “problems” caused by global climate change.  The marketplace finds solutions. UN bureaucrats, cynical politicians, and publicly funded “climate scientists” find “problems” in need of their collectivist solutions — and if they happen to get rich along the way, well, that’s just purely coincidental!Constraining humanity — herding them and treating them like livestock so that the global masterminds can return earth to their romantic vision of some bucolic state of nature (while they, naturally, will get to retain all the lavish trappings of wealth and privilege, which they deserve, for saving the earth and stuff from the disgusting, mewling ambulatory masses and their ugly ugly breeding) — isn’t the way to progress. Over the past 50 years, the US has had the luxury of engaging in environmental-friendly programs, passing increasingly onerous regulations to protect the earth from the filth we exhale, belch out of our factories, dump in our streams,  leech into our water tables, etc.  And yet the earth, we’re told, is not responding quite yet. Meaning, we need more and more and more control over the movement and living arrangements and land ownership rights and family sizes of the destructive masses.  We need to control energy supplies, food supplies, water collection.  Only then will the earth and its resources prove “sustainable.”  And if that means that you as a human must sacrifice for the good of the global village — stop your sprawl, cut back on your energy usage, decrease your productivity (which will increase your means of attaining private property, while simultaneously hamstringing ingenuity, which is a feature and not a bug to the masterminds who want you tamed) — then you, citizen of the world, owe it to the earth to submit.

Well, here’s the truth:  many of us won’t follow along.  We won’t be treated as cattle.  We won’t be constrained by masterminds.  We won’t submit.  We’ll live free or we’ll die.

Simple as that.

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Forsythia

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Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #177 on: August 07, 2012, 03:25:05 PM »

It's not responding yet because we need to do more.  Do you think the lack of regulation during the industrial revolution and all those toxic spills will be cleaned up in just a few years of being more enviornmental conscious?  Doesn't your bible preach about be stewards of our environment?
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Frenchfry

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Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #178 on: August 07, 2012, 03:29:19 PM »

http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=42563

...It doesn’t fool us, this “scientific consensus,” and I daresay there are millions upon millions of us who will not be herded or packed and stacked or prevented from owning private property, etc., so that those who have adopted a ruling elite position, along with the science and results they fund in some vicious cycle of graft, can socially engineer the planet in a way they find pleasing.  An increase in people means a (potential) increase in technological and intellectual development; and from there is where will come solutions to any “problems” caused by global climate change.  The marketplace finds solutions. UN bureaucrats, cynical politicians, and publicly funded “climate scientists” find “problems” in need of their collectivist solutions — and if they happen to get rich along the way, well, that’s just purely coincidental!Constraining humanity — herding them and treating them like livestock so that the global masterminds can return earth to their romantic vision of some bucolic state of nature (while they, naturally, will get to retain all the lavish trappings of wealth and privilege, which they deserve, for saving the earth and stuff from the disgusting, mewling ambulatory masses and their ugly ugly breeding) — isn’t the way to progress. Over the past 50 years, the US has had the luxury of engaging in environmental-friendly programs, passing increasingly onerous regulations to protect the earth from the filth we exhale, belch out of our factories, dump in our streams,  leech into our water tables, etc.  And yet the earth, we’re told, is not responding quite yet. Meaning, we need more and more and more control over the movement and living arrangements and land ownership rights and family sizes of the destructive masses.  We need to control energy supplies, food supplies, water collection.  Only then will the earth and its resources prove “sustainable.”  And if that means that you as a human must sacrifice for the good of the global village — stop your sprawl, cut back on your energy usage, decrease your productivity (which will increase your means of attaining private property, while simultaneously hamstringing ingenuity, which is a feature and not a bug to the masterminds who want you tamed) — then you, citizen of the world, owe it to the earth to submit.

Well, here’s the truth:  many of us won’t follow along.  We won’t be treated as cattle.  We won’t be constrained by masterminds.  We won’t submit.  We’ll live free or we’ll die.

Simple as that.
LOL....I see what you did there...

It's the point of view of sperm.   :D
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old salt

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Re: Nope, no climate change here folks.
« Reply #179 on: August 07, 2012, 04:25:48 PM »

I'd say we're doing plenty.  What will it take for you to say that?

Do you believe the bold sentences above?

It's not responding yet because we need to do more.  Do you think the lack of regulation during the industrial revolution and all those toxic spills will be cleaned up in just a few years of being more enviornmental conscious?  Doesn't your bible preach about be stewards of our environment?
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