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[Frenchfry]

Like Pavlov's dog your you're predictably is tiresome.    Goodnight puppy.

Fixed it for you. I just love how righties have that in common.
Makes it easy to differentiate even when the talk isn't about anything political.

[Professor H]

LOL...you're a hypocrite.
As if you're not the most partisan of forum. 

Guess you righties are giving Engler a free pass.

Oh the irony that it took a geek (Snyder) so long to delve into what seems to be right up his alley.

For one who proclaims to know a lot about computers I thought that would be an easy one for you... 
Low Bid
Government Contract
Most likely a Bureaucratic Information Technology Department...
IT departments don't relinquish much in control or freedom, so they have to be involved in more detail that likely runs up costs.
Can't just run out and get something like you would at "home", and often when the process is completed - technology advances or equipment becomes antiquated.

Not the first time a government has wasted money on computer systems - and won't be the last because they are built for obsolescence, as technology changes.
Not sure why your sudden fixation on political partisanship


Examples to show it's not a partisan issue - but one of bureaucracy/IT/rapid changes in some technology:

 State contract for updating computer system soars in cost
Source: Joseph Neff, Charlotte Observer, June 18, 2012

State's effort to modernize the way it processes Medicaid claims will take nearly a decade, cost almost $900 million....The project has gone in fits and starts since it began in 2004: cancelled and rebid, then amended and extended. Costs have kept rising, so much so that the expense of setting up the new system and running it for seven years, plus maintaining the old system, now adds up to an eye-popping figure: $851 million.

The system's launch is running nearly two years behind schedule. State auditors also estimate it will cost more than double the originally projected amount because of expanded contract expenses and the expense of keeping the current aging system running with its longtime vendor....
http://www.afscmeinfocenter.org/privatizationupdate/2012/06/delays-overruns-plague-nc-medicaid-claims-project.htm

Legislators Vote To Suspend Court Computer System

California Court Case Management System Projected To Eventually Cost $1.9 Billion
UPDATED: 9:21 pm PDT March 14, 2012

SAN DIEGO -- A state Assembly budget subcommittee voted Wednesday afternoon to stop any further deployment of a problem-ridden technology program that is overdue and over budget.

The California Court Case Management System (CCMS) is supposed to be a computer system that will connect every case to every Superior Court in California. Instead, it's been plagued with problems and an escalating price tag.
http://www.10news.com/news/30681536/detail.html

[BigRedDog]

Sounds like there's plenty of blame to go around...

on both sides of the aisle...

From Mlive this morning:

http://www.mlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2012/07/tim_skubick_former_secretary_o.html

[Professor H]

That article confirms my point that IT departments are the ones who control these projects, and set up the bids and contracts.  The article stated this project ran under 3 IT State Directors.  Elected officials run their areas up to the point of IT and those decisions have to go to that department.   

Same thing happened in San Diego - it's not a political issue but one of business or lack of business model controls.This explains the probability for the delays and overruns.  Not the reasons why no one in oversight paid much attention til now.

Apparently this contract like most government contracts, is/was lacking a project manager that had some power/authority to enforce penalty clauses for job performance or deadlines.   Try doing that in a business and see how long you keep your job.   

[Frenchfry]

For one who proclaims to know a lot about computers I thought that would be an easy one for you... 
No such proclamation was ever made.


Low Bid
Government Contract
Most likely a Bureaucratic Information Technology Department...
Your assumption that the low bid wins is false...but then you mus be used to being wrong by now.


IT departments don't relinquish much in control or freedom, so they have to be involved in more detail that likely runs up costs.
Can't just run out and get something like you would at "home", and often when the process is completed - technology advances or equipment becomes antiquated.

Not the first time a government has wasted money on computer systems - and won't be the last because they are built for obsolescence, as technology changes.
Not sure why your sudden fixation on political partisanship
Really? Take a gander at your reply to a post chastising me for stereotyping Republicans:

What fun would that be?

It's always D or R

Look...I'm not interested in your partisan opinion...but the other readers out there with even an iota of critical thinking skills should consider whether having a former Republican Governor working with a Republican Secretary of State on this program smells right.

Yet the righties are trying to pin the blame on everything but.

That's right...ignore the smoking gun....just mount a hypocritical campaign against partisanship. 

[marilyn.monroe]

Michigan would be better off if they gave school kids computers instead of government workers.

[LetsGoWings]

Yet the righties are trying to pin the blame on everything but.

That is exactly what you are doing except for the other side, why can you not see how hypocritical you are when you talk like this?

Both parties were to blame, and as the link that BRD posted, there is plenty of blame. You are too dense and biased to see that though.

[jbs49238]

Sounds like there's plenty of blame to go around...

on both sides of the aisle...

From Mlive this morning:

http://www.mlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2012/07/tim_skubick_former_secretary_o.html

Why would you say such a silly thing?  It can NEVER be a bi-partisan problem, even if a gov from one party signed the contract and the next governor from the other party continued to pay the contract even though the folks getting the money were not delivering on the contract.

At least we only gave EDS $50M sounds like other states have really taken it in the short hairs., and at least now we have a gov that keeps track of the money instead of just signing away the checks without giving a darn where it goes.

[Professor H]

Look...I'm not interested in your partisan opinion... 
We all know - you are only interested in what your own biased opinion is 
If it were about politics then ask who was the appointing power during the time this contract was made
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Prof H wrote:For one who proclaims to know a lot about computers I thought that would be an easy one for you... 
FF - reply: No such proclamation was ever made.

Mea culpa Fry: You seem to offer advice about computers in other forums and seemed knowledgeable from those posts - so I guess I gave you too much credit 

Refresher for those who may not know very much about computers and Information Technology:  The IT Department at the State of Michigan control the access and bids/contracts on computer and other data (voice) systems within the State of Michigan. 

A previous article with more of the auditors findings:

LANSING – An auditor’s report released today rips the Department of Technology, Management and Budget for mismanaging a decade-old computer project for the Secretary of State that has cost taxpayers $50 million and still isn’t finished.

The state used a flawed bidding process and a badly worded contract, then paid bills it shouldn’t have and failed to penalize contractors when deadlines were missed and systems did not work correctly, Auditor General Thomas McTavish said in the scathing report.

State officials provided incomplete and inaccurate information to the Legislature about how much the project was costing and how it was progressing, McTavish said.

The review of the Business Application Modernization Project documents the latest in a series of state government computer projects that have featured missed deadlines, cost overruns and failures to deliver what was promised.

Until the Department of Technology, Management and Budget “remediates these audit findings, it is likely that the state will continue to experience problems developing and implementing complex information systems,” the report said.

Department officials said they agree with most of the recommendations and have already addressed many of them, though they disagree with a few of the findings.

“The … project has taken too long to implement with too many missteps along the way,” Department of Technology, Management and Budget spokesman Kurt Weiss said today.

“This is not an example of how major IT projects should work. The issues raised in the audit have been addressed under new leadership at DTMB and future large-scale IT projects won’t have these problems.”

The Secretary of State’s office, which was also involved in managing the project, shares the auditor’s frustration and has addressed the issues he raised, spokeswoman Gisgie Gendreau said today.

“While we have made steady progress in the past year, this is a complex, multiyear legacy project and we expect additional challenges in development and rollout,” she said.

The project was supposed to modernize Secretary of State computer systems for services such as driver licenses, ID cards, vehicle titles, vehicle registration and voter registration. One piece of the project, the Web-based ExpressSOS for online renewals of many licenses and titles, went into use in 2011. The auditor general said it still doesn’t have all the functions it’s supposed to have.

The project began in the early days of the administration of former Gov. Jennifer Granholm. Since then, contractors have been paid $34.3 million as of June 2011 and the salary costs of state employees who have worked on the project – which McTavish said were not included in cost figures but should have been -- have accounted for another $15.3 million.

Though the original contract awarded to Electronic Data Systems in 2004 was for $49.4 million, the project was significantly scaled back in 2009, at which time the contract’s total value was reduced to $35.6 million.

Among the findings:

• Officials awarded the contract to the same company that prepared the design documents for the project. “Consequently, the vendor had an unfair advantage in the selection process."

• The contract did not include language that allowed the state to hold the contractor accountable for certain failures, such as in maintaining overall control of the project.

• An unnamed former official in the Secretary of State approved unauthorized payments to the contractor, gave incomplete and inaccurate information to the Legislature, and made changes to the contract terms that “required the state to pay for software that contained errors” and could not be used.

• Weak oversight by a state steering committee, with no minutes kept of meetings and no documentation that certain payments to contractors were approved.

• By June 2011, the state had paid the contractor 78% of the value of its $35.6 million contract, “even though only a small portion of (the system) had been implemented. Payments were supposed to be largely tied to performance.

• Millions of dollars in payments were made to contractors despite wording in the contract that said the payments should not have been made. Also, a former Secretary of State official approved eight payments totaling $4.5 million without approval from the project manager.

• Failure by the state to penalize the contractor with penalties of $138,000 to $505,000 a month for missed deadlines. “As a result, we calculated that through July 2011 the development contractor owed the state liquidated damages of approximately $12.5 million,” which had not been collected.
[/b]
http://www.freep.com/article/20120719/NEWS06/120719032/secretary-of-state-computer-contract-problems?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE#
 

[Frenchfry]

Mea culpa Fry: You seem to offer advice about computers in other forums and seemed knowledgeable from those posts - so I guess I gave you too much credit 
What "other forums"?

Refresher for those who may not know very much about computers and Information Technology:  The IT Department at the State of Michigan control the access and bids/contracts on computer and other data (voice) systems within the State of Michigan. 

A previous article with more of the auditors findings:

LANSING – An auditor’s report released today rips the Department of Technology, Management and Budget for mismanaging a decade-old computer project for the Secretary of State that has cost taxpayers $50 million and still isn’t finished.

The state used a flawed bidding process and a badly worded contract, then paid bills it shouldn’t have and failed to penalize contractors when deadlines were missed and systems did not work correctly, Auditor General Thomas McTavish said in the scathing report.

State officials provided incomplete and inaccurate information to the Legislature about how much the project was costing and how it was progressing, McTavish said.

The review of the Business Application Modernization Project documents the latest in a series of state government computer projects that have featured missed deadlines, cost overruns and failures to deliver what was promised.

Until the Department of Technology, Management and Budget “remediates these audit findings, it is likely that the state will continue to experience problems developing and implementing complex information systems,” the report said.

Department officials said they agree with most of the recommendations and have already addressed many of them, though they disagree with a few of the findings.

“The … project has taken too long to implement with too many missteps along the way,” Department of Technology, Management and Budget spokesman Kurt Weiss said today.

“This is not an example of how major IT projects should work. The issues raised in the audit have been addressed under new leadership at DTMB and future large-scale IT projects won’t have these problems.”

The Secretary of State’s office, which was also involved in managing the project, shares the auditor’s frustration and has addressed the issues he raised, spokeswoman Gisgie Gendreau said today.

“While we have made steady progress in the past year, this is a complex, multiyear legacy project and we expect additional challenges in development and rollout,” she said.

The project was supposed to modernize Secretary of State computer systems for services such as driver licenses, ID cards, vehicle titles, vehicle registration and voter registration. One piece of the project, the Web-based ExpressSOS for online renewals of many licenses and titles, went into use in 2011. The auditor general said it still doesn’t have all the functions it’s supposed to have.

The project began in the early days of the administration of former Gov. Jennifer Granholm. Since then, contractors have been paid $34.3 million as of June 2011 and the salary costs of state employees who have worked on the project – which McTavish said were not included in cost figures but should have been -- have accounted for another $15.3 million.

Though the original contract awarded to Electronic Data Systems in 2004 was for $49.4 million, the project was significantly scaled back in 2009, at which time the contract’s total value was reduced to $35.6 million.

Among the findings:

• Officials awarded the contract to the same company that prepared the design documents for the project. “Consequently, the vendor had an unfair advantage in the selection process."

• The contract did not include language that allowed the state to hold the contractor accountable for certain failures, such as in maintaining overall control of the project.

• An unnamed former official in the Secretary of State approved unauthorized payments to the contractor, gave incomplete and inaccurate information to the Legislature, and made changes to the contract terms that “required the state to pay for software that contained errors” and could not be used.

• Weak oversight by a state steering committee, with no minutes kept of meetings and no documentation that certain payments to contractors were approved.

• By June 2011, the state had paid the contractor 78% of the value of its $35.6 million contract, “even though only a small portion of (the system) had been implemented. Payments were supposed to be largely tied to performance.

• Millions of dollars in payments were made to contractors despite wording in the contract that said the payments should not have been made. Also, a former Secretary of State official approved eight payments totaling $4.5 million without approval from the project manager.

• Failure by the state to penalize the contractor with penalties of $138,000 to $505,000 a month for missed deadlines. “As a result, we calculated that through July 2011 the development contractor owed the state liquidated damages of approximately $12.5 million,” which had not been collected.
http://www.freep.com/article/20120719/NEWS06/120719032/secretary-of-state-computer-contract-problems?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE#

Of course you chose the right-wing union-busting scab paper. I've lost respect for those fools long ago.
Mlive said the audit also sharply criticized the Department of State, run from 2003-10 by Land, a Republican.
http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2012/07/audit_rips_states_handling_of.html

Guess this bears repeating as well since you righties seem to be giving the former Republican governor a free pass:
In the Detroit News , it seems that governing a state can be both fun and profitable. To summarize, the John Engler administration in Michigan lasted 12 years, in which the EDS Corporation prospered mightily:

* The EDS contract with the state grew from a $55 million per year contract to a $555 million bonanza

* The initial two year contract was extended from 1995 through 2004 without once being rebid

Quote:
Peter Karmanos Jr., chairman of Compuware Corp. , says he twice complained directly to Engler that the deal with EDS was "costing taxpayers millions" because Compuware's software products and people were being billed through EDS at a mark-up.

How do you thank a governor that did your business such great favors? Well, EDS knows how. Three weeks after leaving office, John Engler found a job with EDS making $250,000 per year with a bonus potential of twice that.
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=169581

Former Michigan Governor John Engler Named President of EDS State and Local Government Business
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/former-michigan-governor-john-engler-named-president-of-eds-state-and-local-government-business-73915312.html

Sure seems like the Republican Governor and the Republican Secretary of the state made a sweetheart deal.

[jbs49238]

Yup and a Democrat guvna with an awsome legal mind allowed it to continue for 8 full years.

[Frenchfry]

Yup and a Democrat guvna with an awsome legal mind allowed it to continue for 8 full years.

Guess the fact that a Republican was voted into the SOS position should've been ignored...it appears some would've preferred the Governor to personally micromanage all of the state departments.

[jbs49238]

That post does nothing to mitigate the fact that a Democrat gov. could have brought all of this to light $34M ago.

[Frenchfry]

That post does nothing to mitigate the fact that a Democrat gov. could have brought all of this to light $34M ago.

A Governor relying on the experts saying that's the cost of business in IT isn't inconceivable....especially considering the Republican SOS was in cahoots with the Former Republican Governor turned EDS President.

[Professor H]

A Governor relying on the experts saying that's the cost of business in IT isn't inconceivable....especially considering the Republican SOS was in cahoots with the Former Republican Governor turned EDS President.

If your hypothesis has any merit - it means the Granholm appointed an incompetent director of IT... 

Good thing we have a current Gov who is knowledgeable and addressing the issues