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[Flanders]

I have an issue with the government stepping in as well.  It's not like he is not allowing gay patrons or employees.  If he were, then I would want the government to step in.  He is well within his right to contibute to anti-gay causes, just like white supremacists are allowed to protest inter-racial marriages.

Yup awesome, agreed.

[old salt]

That's a slippery slope fallacy Salt.  I can point out the flaws in your logic if you would like.

Now why is it immoral for two people to be happily married?  Why is it you are so sensitive about a single word if you are fine with civil unions and the like?  Do you think it's immoral for people of different races to marry?  This is the same thing.  This is a basic civil rights issue, and a case will end up in the supreme court, and all gay marriage bans will be struck down.  I just can't wait for it to happen.

Slipper slope fallacy.  No need to explain.  But don't say you weren't warned.

 immoral for people of different races to marry?  Nope, nothing wrong with that.  Not sure how you can call it the same thing.  A man and woman marrying is not the same as two people of the same gender.  Period.

As a civil rights issue, I have no problem with the equality.  Why are you so hung up on being called 'married'?  This single word has a meaning to me which is religious in nature.  I could care less what the supreme court decides.

And Flanders is correct, it's about govt. intervention where they have no right to be.  For that reason alone, you should be supporting them.  But some are so intolerant and feel slighted by someone's beliefs, that they feel there must be a recourse of action.  Sad.

[Forsythia]

I agree with you Salt, I hate the word "married" and believe it is religious and should be out of all language dealing with the government.  I believe that ALL prople sbould be getting civil unions if they want the tax breaks.  If you want to get married then you do that in the church and it's not state recognized. 

Inter-racial marriage and gay marriage are very similar.  It's two people who want to form a union recognized by the state.  As long as it's two consemting adults it shouldn't matter.

Now how is it anti-Christian to support gay marriage?  The last time I checked the only mention about homosexuality was in Leviticus and just down from that passage was one saying that a woman is a mans property, and if a woman gets raped she must marry her attacker.  In addition Jesus wiped out the Old Testament when he died for your sins.  That was the new covenant.

[tnweasel]

this 'conversation' would carry alot more weight if the words.... bigot, idiot, moron, small-minded, etc..... weren't being used to describe those who are stating a belief that they are entitled to ........

[ducksoup]

When I was in college a message I remember well was that one negative comment about your business is equal to some larger number of good reviews.  As an example; if ten people say good things about your company and one says something bad then they cancel each other out.

A responsible company should do whatever it can to mitigate bad press or review; even a small local business that had a couple of people complaining about them and spread and kill off a lot of what should be potential customers. 

I suspect this guy thought he was promoting a positive and didn’t weigh the possible negative results from his free speech.  He made a big mistake, in my opinion.

He had a show of response, which was nice for him, but does it overcome the negatives?  I don’t think so.  Human nature holds negatives and forgets positives all too often.  Six months from now the furor will die down and only those that want to get a chicken sandwich from them will continue to purchase, but also the ones that took the comment negatively will likely never return.

Let’s suppose that 75% agree and 25% oppose his comments.  I made up that number and weighted it to people that agree, but it can be any other numbers.  I have no clue of the percentages of frequent customers and their views.  Anyway, that 25% likely are gone for good.  Now, can his comment increase those compassionate to his cause permanently?  It is clear a short term increase is true, but will those same numbers continue?  I find it hard to believe that they will, and if they do he lucked out.

As far as those politicians that had emotional outbursts.  They got a slap on the hand and walked back their comments.  Obviously the government cannot ban a business that is legal.  That does not mean, however, that if there is a choice between a new chicko place and a KFC that they might favor one over the other based on public commentary.

Some interesting observations about comments.  Some seem to represent that free speech support of a business is good, while the free speech protesting of that company is bad (as I took John’s original post).  Both are equal free speech.

The comments make clear that the opposition is to males same sex.  I thought it was a good catch by Prof that most or many guys if told it was going to be a bunch of women kissing they would be there with enthusiasm.

Back to the negatives having more influence.  I think back to the Pink Ribbon group and the negatives I still have from their stand.  I am sure some have complimented some businesses (at MT) either local or not and I can come up with none.  I think back and remember all the negative comments about the new Wally World store having a horrific parking lot, but can remember no positive comments.

If I owned chicken stock (pun intended) I would sell now because I would believe that the future of the company will be on a downward track because of this negative that the person in charge created.

[Forsythia]

By definition he is being a bigot.  It's just my opinion that the guy is a moron for supporting the discrimination of a class of people.

[tnweasel]

 Forsythia

You conservative small minded people make no sense.......

your quote from an earlier post.... please don't think because I have conservative values that I am small minded.... I just happen to believe differently than you do....and I do not expend my time and energy in an attempt to deny anyone's basic rights..... as for Dan Cathy being an "idiot".... there are plenty of those out there with a lot more power than a man that sells chicken sandwiches....

I reasoned out my definition of 'nuclear family' a long time ago during the Bush administration and am completely open to trying to understand most definitions of 'family unit'...... as long as the relationships are healthy, supportive, and loving.....what's the big deal.... we have to realize that families are no longer made up of one mom, one dad, and children....we have step-families, interracial families, blended families, grandparent raising grandchild families, adopted families, cousins raising cousins... and on and on..... but I digress.....

[Forsythia]

I apologize for that generalization Live.  As this hits close to home for me I'm pretty passionate about this topic and I HATE it when people discriminate against me and those like me.

[Professor H]

That's a slippery slope fallacy Salt.  I can point out the flaws in your logic if you would like.

Now why is it immoral for two people to be happily married?  Why is it you are so sensitive about a single word if you are fine with civil unions and the like?  Do you think it's immoral for people of different races to marry?  This is the same thing.  This is a basic civil rights issue, and a case will end up in the supreme court, and all gay marriage bans will be struck down.  I just can't wait for it to happen.

What is the purpose of Union or Marriage in your belief system?
To be happy together?
So are you saying you need that Marriage title to do this?

In "Most" other belief systems - marriage is also for pro-creation.
Something that you may have a wee bit of a problem with...

Many people live together now - so the comments could have been directed in that direction, as well as those divorced, but everyone quickly jumped to the conclusion it is Anti - gay?
Why couldn't it just be Pro his beliefs 

It doesn't always have to be a correlation to the exact opposite when you are anti/pro something.

I apologize for that generalization Live.  As this hits close to home for me I'm pretty passionate about this topic and I HATE it when people discriminate against me and those like me.

I appreciate the passion - and defending your beliefs.  It's part of what keeps this site interesting and educational.

The harder part is for those to get past differences and see/understand the other persons views/beliefs to better understand them... it should never come to thinking they don't care.   I care deeply for my friends and would defend their rights to work, live, play, and share their love and commitment in the open - (sometimes from my own relatives who still use derogatory terms - from their own beliefs and how they were raised)
Not an easy thing to do - but I've learned to accept and move on.   

Still not turning in my conservative credentials 

[Collegekid]

Prof, I suggest you read Noah Michelson's piece about "why couldn't it just be pro his beliefs," I'll include a a couple of graphs from it, but I suggest reading the entire thing.

When you buy food from Chick-fil-A, you're basically saying, "Here, take this money and see to it that queer people can not only not get married, but that they also can't adopt, can be fired simply for their sexuality and/or gender identity and continue to live in a society where they are regularly terrorized, mutilated, murdered and driven to suicide." Because that is what these groups do.

I, too, am in love with the First Amendment, and I want everyone to have the right to say whatever they want -- even if it's totally bonkers. But do I have to sit around and take it? Nope. And I sure as hell don't have to give those people my money to use against me. And neither do you.

So the next time someone says to you, "This is a First Amendment issue," or, "Chick-fil-A isn't anti-gay, it's just pro-traditional marriage," send them a link to one of the heartbreaking stories we feature on Gay Voices on a daily basis. Might I suggest the recent one about the lesbian in Nebraska who had the word "dyke" carved into her skin and her house set on fire? Or maybe they'd prefer to read the story of one of the LGBT teens who have killed themselves because they couldn't take the non-stop abuse inflicted upon them or just didn't see how they could function in a world that is so agonizingly anti-LGBT. Because that is exactly what Chick-fil-A is using its freedom of speech and its customers' dollars to support.

Here for the rest.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/noah-michelson/chick-fil-a-first-amendment_b_1733305.html?utm_hp_ref=gay-voices&ncid=edlinkusaolp00000008

[Forsythia]

The big deal for me is that I am so for a union or marriage is because of what I want should I become ill or injured.  My partner does not have rhe same rights as your wife in those cases.  Fortunately I have a great relationship with my family.  If I didnt, I could have an estranged father making the decision to pull the plug or how I should be buried.  In addition there's power of attorney, and for homosexual couples that power is often given to family members instead of the partner.  This occurs even if there are legal documents stating that I want my partner to handle my estate instead of my family.

Anyone who tries to deny me the rights of a straight couple is discriminating against me.

[LetsGoWings]

The big deal for me is that I am so for a union or marriage is because of what I want should I become ill or injured.  My partner does not have rhe same rights as your wife in those cases.  Fortunately I have a great relationship with my family.  If I didnt, I could have an estranged father making the decision to pull the plug or how I should be buried.  In addition there's power of attorney, and for homosexual couples that power is often given to family members instead of the partner.  This occurs even if there are legal documents stating that I want my partner to handle my estate instead of my family.

Anyone who tries to deny me the rights of a straight couple is discriminating against me.

I am going to have to ask for citation showing that intestate rights apply even when there is a will and other official documents.

Correct me if I am wrong, but don't intestacy rights apply when there is no will? To avoid power of attorney issues you should, not sure on the laws of it, sign a living will that should something happen to you your partner becomes the power of attorney. A way to avoid power of attorney issues is to set up a revocable trust and name your partner as the trustee. You can also chose to hold a lot of property as joint-tenants with your partner and as death they will receiver the property.

As for the Chick-Fil-A issue I agree he entitled to his first amendment right, but he is also subject to other individuals exercising their first amendment right and speaking out or boycotting him. I personally have never ate at a Chick-Fil-A, so I guess I guess I am boycotting them.

As for gay marriage and rights, I believe they should have the rights of married couples. I wouldn't be opposed if politicians came up with a solution to have a civil union that was exactly like a marriage, except was not called one. That way it can protect the so called "sanctity" of marriage, and same-sex couples will have the exact same rights as married couples. I also would not oppose simply allowing them to get married and putting the issue to bed.

[Baby Hitler]

Slipper slope fallacy.  No need to explain.  But don't say you weren't warned.

 immoral for people of different races to marry?  Nope, nothing wrong with that.  Not sure how you can call it the same thing.  A man and woman marrying is not the same as two people of the same gender.  Period.

And yet, someone marrying their cat is the same as two women getting married.

Not sure how you can call it the same thing.

[Baby Hitler]

[Professor H]

Prof, I suggest you read Noah Michelson's piece about "why couldn't it just be pro his beliefs," I'll include a a couple of graphs from it, but I suggest reading the entire thing.

your quoted article:
When you buy food from Chick-fil-A, you're basically saying, "Here, take this money and see to it that queer people can not only not get married, but that they also can't adopt, can be fired simply for their sexuality and/or gender identity and continue to live in a society where they are regularly terrorized, mutilated, murdered and driven to suicide." Because that is what these groups do.
End quoted section:

You lost me with that author when it started to go on about firing people...

Can you document Chick-fil-A has done any of these practices?