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Frenchfry

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Re: The price of Obamacare.
« Reply #765 on: September 25, 2013, 09:15:17 AM »

So FrenchFry, just to make sure I get this right. The GOP passes a government continuation bill that exempts Obama Care, if Obama signs the Bill no government shut down, if he veto's the Bill the government shuts down.

Under these circumstances wouldn't Obama be in the "power chair", therefore the person responsible to shut down or keep the government running?

Isn't this government 101?
A person would have to be completely delusional to believe that the "blame" would be shifted.
Look...while everyone will lose from the ignorant right-wing move...ultimately the Dems will gain the upper hand.
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Frenchfry

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Re: The price of Obamacare.
« Reply #766 on: September 25, 2013, 09:18:51 AM »

I actually agree with you that Obamacare will likely fail under its own weight.

I think the Republicans would be better served to stand back and watch it go, but a lot of folks are going to get hurt in the process.
I saw the word "if"
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Frenchfry

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Re: The price of Obamacare.
« Reply #767 on: September 25, 2013, 09:37:10 AM »

'Defund' Obamacare Fight is Blowing Up in Ted Cruz's Face!

'Defund' Obamacare Fight is Blowing Up in Ted Cruz's Face!


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Ted Cruz Reads ‘Green Eggs and Ham’ on Senate Floor — And That’s Not the Weird Part

What's weird is that Cruz's marathon speech, in protest against Obamacare, is technically not a filibuster
http://swampland.time.com/2013/09/25/ted-cruz-reads-green-eggs-and-ham-on-senate-floor-and-thats-not-the-weird-part/

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Ted Cruz Splits GOP Over Defunding Obamacare

"During an appearance on Fox News Sunday, Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) laid out a plan for forcing the Democratically-controlled Senate to pass a House-backed resolution that would keep the government open until Dec. 15, but defund parts of the Affordable Care Act. The comments come after the Texas senator elicited anger from House Republicans for conceding earlier this week that any continuing resolution that includes Obamacare defunding would fail in the Senate. Cruz's strategy involves a complex parliamentary procedure in which all 46 Republicans in the Senate filibuster the resolution to pressure Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) to change the rules and establish a 60-vote threshold for any amendment, thus denying Democrats the votes to add Obamacare funding back into the bill...".

Ted Cruz Splits GOP Over Defunding Obamacare
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Frenchfry

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Re: The price of Obamacare.
« Reply #768 on: September 25, 2013, 09:41:48 AM »

Ted Cruz Divides Republican Party, Sarah Palin Weighs In

Is Senator Ted Cruz dividing the Republican Party? It seems that way after Cruz was hit hard with questions by Chris Wallace on Fox News Sunday. What does Sarah Palin think? Will Cruz run for president in 2016?

Ted Cruz Divides Republican Party, Sarah Palin Weighs In


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Ted Cruz vs Mitch McConnell-- The GOP's Future?

"Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky has repeatedly rescued Republicans in their fiscal fights with the White House. But not this time. At least not yet.

The seasoned McConnell has distanced himself from tea party renegades in his party, spurning the effort by Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) to halt funding for the government unless President Obama ends the Affordable Care Act, the nation's new healthcare law.

"I just don't happen to think filibustering a bill that defunds Obamacare is the best route to defunding Obamacare," McConnell said as the Senate opened Tuesday."

Ted Cruz vs Mitch McConnell-- The GOP's Future?
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Frenchfry

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Re: The price of Obamacare.
« Reply #769 on: September 25, 2013, 10:30:49 AM »

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Frenchfry

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Re: The price of Obamacare.
« Reply #770 on: September 25, 2013, 10:44:37 AM »

What do shutdown and debt limit have to do with Obamacare?

Washington (CNN) -- With a series of potential disasters hovering over the nation like a demon storm, the most prominent words of a Washington-based word cloud would be: government shutdown, continuing resolution, debt limit and Obamacare.

Although a potential shutdown and the need to raise the debt limit are different issues, they are interrelated and have one big thing in common: They are both products of a crisis manufactured by Washington. And both are being used for leverage in attempts to undermine Obamacare.

So, what's the difference between them and why should you care?

First up, the shutdown

The federal government's fiscal year starts next week -- October 1. And Congress' one key duty laid out in the Constitution is to pass spending bills that fund the government.

If it doesn't, most of the functions of the government -- from paying the military to funding small business loans to collecting the trash in Washington -- could come to a slow-motion halt.

It shuts down.

This time around, the House of Representatives, led by conservative Republicans, has linked this funding process -- known as a continuing resolution -- to defunding President Barack Obama's signature health insurance law, the Affordable Care Act or Obamacare. It passed its bill last Friday and sent it to the Senate.

This week, the Senate is expected to strip out the anti-Obamacare provision and pass its own "clean" version of the bill -- and then the drama begins.

But more on that in a minute.

What's important here is that if Congress doesn't pass the $986 billion continuing resolution, or CR, in the next week, the national parks could close, airport Transportation Security Agents might get furloughed and agents might be unable to process Social Security checks.

Next crisis, the debt limit

Remember that time when you maxed out your credit card? That's what the debt limit is all about. The U.S. is on the verge of maxing out its $16.699 trillion credit card.

A maxed-out credit card doesn't mean you can stop spending. While you have to pay your credit card bill, you also have to continue to buy groceries and pay the electric bill, so you might have to open up a new credit card.

That's similar to what the U.S. government must do. The government can't just stop paying on its previous debt or spending money, even though its credit limit is maxed out, because it has too many obligations to meet. It has to have access to money to pay for the interest on that debt, as well as pay soldiers' paychecks, doctors' Medicare reimbursements, expenses like bridge repairs, and so on. So the president must ask Congress to raise the limit of the country's credit card, or debt limit.

But many think Republicans in Congress may also try to link raising the debt limit to defunding Obamacare. Sound familiar?

Sometime around the middle of October -- unless Congress votes to raise the debt limit -- the U.S. government will be out of options. This past spring it already implemented "extraordinary measures" where accounts were reshuffled to enable the U.S. to continue paying its bills.

But this time, once the debt limit is reached, there are no other tricks Treasury can use. It won't be able to meet 30% of its obligations, according to a report by the Bipartisan Policy Center.

Although the government won't "shut down," many say the consequences would be much, much worse.

Treasury Secretary Jack Lew predicted that impacts on the global and local economy would be "catastrophic."

While the U.S. operates at a deficit, the rest of the world purchases U.S. debt. It's considered one of the safest investments around, because it is believed that the U.S. will always pay its bills. But what if it doesn't?

The U.S. will no longer be considered "the most reliable creditor in the world," said Shai Akabas, senior policy analyst at the Bipartisan Policy Center. In addition to potential financial panic because the most stable investment will no longer be considered safe, individual investors, hedge fund managers, other countries -- those who own U.S. Treasurys -- could start to turn to other countries for investments, and interest rates on Treasurys would start to increase.

That means the benefits that U.S. consumers enjoy, including low interest rates on home loans, credit cards and business loans, would begin to erode. Fast.

At home, it would also be devastating. That 80-year-old woman who relies on her Social Security check to pay her rent might not get paid. That means her landlord won't get paid.

The doctor who sees Medicare patients won't get reimbursed, so he might not purchase that new flat-screen TV he was planning on buying next month. The government contractor who is owed for providing food at military bases won't get paid, and she will have to lay off line cooks.

Obviously, this could be very, very bad. That's why each side thinks the other will blink on Obamacare to avoid such a calamity.

So what does Obamacare have to do with any of this?

In short: a lot.

While the health care law is not directly tied to funding the government -- the CR -- or paying bills already incurred -- the debt ceiling -- it is being used as a powerful bargaining chip.

A group of Republicans, led by freshman Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas, despises the health care law so much that it is willing to risk government shutdown or default.

While 41 previous attempts to repeal, defund or stop the law haven't worked, the group hopes efforts to link it to these two pieces of must-pass legislation will. That's why there's talk of a government shutdown.

The House, which is controlled by Republicans, voted on a measure that would fund the government until December 15 -- but in exchange for keeping the government open, the health care law would be defunded.

But the Democrat-controlled Senate vows that Obamacare defunding will have no part in efforts to keep the government running and is expected to strip that provision out of its version of the CR sometime this week.

Cruz and his supporters aren't backing down. And neither is the president.

"I believe we should stand our ground, and I don't believe (Senate Majority Leader) Harry Reid or Barack Obama should shut down the federal government," Cruz said on "Fox News Sunday." "The House voted last week to fund the federal government. If Harry Reid kills that, Harry Reid is responsible for shutting down the government."

But many within the Republican Party think Cruz's idea is a terrible one. While Republicans have successfully extracted budget cuts from recent battles over government funding and the debt ceiling, most understand that a political poison pill like this is unlikely to succeed. Democrats control the Senate with their 54-seat majority.

"We are not about to shut the government down over the fact that we cannot -- only controlling one house of Congress -- tell the president that we are not going to fund any portion of this, because we can't do that," Sen. Tom Coburn, Republican of Oklahoma, said on CBS's "Face the Nation."

If Democrats win the battle over government funding and Obamacare stays intact, Republicans indicated they will make similar demands when the president asks to raise the debt limit.

But Obama has repeated numerous times that he will not negotiate on the debt limit either.

"We will not negotiate whether or not America should keep its word and meet its obligations. We're not going to allow anyone to inflict economic pain on millions of our own people just to make an ideological point," Obama said at the Congressional Black Caucus awards dinner this past weekend.

And even if Cruz and his supporters somehow overcame the Democrat-controlled Senate and successfully sent a bill to the president's desk that defunds Obamacare, would Obama really sign a bill that guts his signature legislative achievement?

And so we have the showdown.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/24/politics/shutdown-debt-limit-obamacare-difference/
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Frenchfry

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Re: The price of Obamacare.
« Reply #771 on: September 25, 2013, 10:57:52 AM »

How 'Keeping it Real' on ObamaCare Went Wrong For Republicans
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toobad

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Re: The price of Obamacare.
« Reply #772 on: September 25, 2013, 12:12:26 PM »

Frenchfry,

It appears that you have had a bad life. Please reflect on your past, pull up your boot straps and get on with your life. It does not take a village to help you, you can actually take care of yourself without the governments help. I understand that it is easiest to steal from people by using the force of the government, however this is called communism.

You see in reality we are very near a communist county if we are not already. Communism produces a two tiered society, if you take a quick look at how our so-called elected officials have exempted themselves from the laws they pass on others you, will agree that we are heading toward a two tier society. Our middle class is about finished and the riches wealth continues to grow. You knowingly or unknowingly are helping the distruction of the middle class by demanding they pay for your freebies. The rich are covered by the politicans, just do your own research and quit babbling Rachel Maddow's B.S.. Who do you think is paying her to produce the communist propaganda she spews.

Anyhow please reflect and stop being a useful idiot for the communist party. They thrive on persons in need. You deserve better than that!

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Pax

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Re: The price of Obamacare.
« Reply #773 on: September 25, 2013, 03:55:46 PM »

I do however believe in the rule of law and believe in following the electoral process.

    I'm sorry, Will, I'm not picking on you personally, just the thought process of the last couple of postings on the topic: that the regime emanating from DC is the most corrupt, most lawless, most despicable in the 230'ish years of American history cannot be denied by any but the most brain dead among us.  Giving any - and I mean the word "any" quite literally - credence to the criminals and criminality that pass as the "US Government" in 2013 makes one an accessory to their crimes.  An abettor, a war-monger, a thief - i.e. a criminal.

     What "electoral process" may have existed in this hemisphere has long been relegated to the dust-bin of history, alongside any legitimacy the American governing classes once may have had.   The "vetting processes," the "elections" themselves, the "polls" conducted near/after "elections" are all smoke-and-mirrors BS to make the sheeple feel like they have some input into how they are governed (or, worse yet, resigning the few thinking ones into accepting the results of an illusory DEMOCRACY! until the next election.)

    The corporation US! is teetering on the verge of irrelevance as it is: it wouldn't take much, or many more people, withdrawing their consent to be governed by the idiocracy and witholding their monetary support for same to push it over the edge.  Anything else is ensuring your chains will be made shorter and the noose a little tighter.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2013, 03:57:37 PM by Pax »
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John Kopke

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Re: The price of Obamacare.
« Reply #774 on: September 25, 2013, 05:09:44 PM »

    I'm sorry, Will, I'm not picking on you personally, just the thought process of the last couple of postings on the topic: that the regime emanating from DC is the most corrupt, most lawless, most despicable in the 230'ish years of American history cannot be denied by any but the most brain dead among us.  Giving any - and I mean the word "any" quite literally - credence to the criminals and criminality that pass as the "US Government" in 2013 makes one an accessory to their crimes.  An abettor, a war-monger, a thief - i.e. a criminal.

     What "electoral process" may have existed in this hemisphere has long been relegated to the dust-bin of history, alongside any legitimacy the American governing classes once may have had.   The "vetting processes," the "elections" themselves, the "polls" conducted near/after "elections" are all smoke-and-mirrors BS to make the sheeple feel like they have some input into how they are governed (or, worse yet, resigning the few thinking ones into accepting the results of an illusory DEMOCRACY! until the next election.)

    The corporation US! is teetering on the verge of irrelevance as it is: it wouldn't take much, or many more people, withdrawing their consent to be governed by the idiocracy and witholding their monetary support for same to push it over the edge.  Anything else is ensuring your chains will be made shorter and the noose a little tighter.

Pax:

I'm with you. Wouldn't change a word.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2013, 07:07:06 PM by John Kopke »
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John Kopke

John Kopke

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Re: The price of Obamacare.
« Reply #775 on: September 25, 2013, 06:13:24 PM »

I'm with Ted Cruz. My belief is the people with something on the ball are now realizing that they have allowed themselves to be herded into a boxed canyon along with the passive and the uninformed. There is only one way out, and that is battling through the fence Obama and his statist army (Democrat and Republican alike) are constructing.

Conventional wisdom says it is futile to even try to break out, the enemy arrayed against us is just too strong. Well maybe so. Yet our Founding Fathers pledged their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor in taking on the most powerful nation on earth at the time. I figure shrinking from a fight now because some people might get mad at me, or will slander my character, or ridicule me, is nothing compared to what these men put on the line. I believe we owe it to them at least as much as we do ourselves. We've been letting them down for a very long time.

At the close of the Constitutional Convention Benjamin Franklin was asked: "Well Doctor what have we got --
A Republic or a Monarchy?"

He replied: "A Republic, if you can keep it?"

Well it may already be too late for us, and the statists are just mopping up, but whatever the outcome, I for one plan
to go down swinging.

I'm emailing and calling Rep. Walberg and telling him he better either lead, follow or by God get out of the way. And to Senator Stabenow my message to her was she has been part and parcel in seeking to bring about one of the biggest frauds ever perpetuated upon the American people in the history of this country and unless she puts an end to this madness I will do whatever little I may be able to do to call her out.

Ps: I'm also getting on other Republican (weak sister) Senators. My email to Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell asked him to give me the name of his primary opponent so I know who to make out the campaign check.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2013, 08:31:22 PM by John Kopke »
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John Kopke

blue2

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Re: The price of Obamacare.
« Reply #776 on: September 25, 2013, 07:17:58 PM »

I don't think there is much disagreement that our health care system needed some heavy overhauling.  There are too many people and companies making too much money.  There is no need to go into detail.  Everyone knows what the costs of most things are.
Whatever it took the democrats and the republicans needed to come to a consensus and hammer out something,   Obama and the democrats forcing their plan down our throats is not the democratic way.  it wasn't that the republicans didn't want to revise healthcare.  They didn't want what Obama was offering and he didn't want to compromise.
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Monroe Native

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Re: The price of Obamacare.
« Reply #777 on: September 25, 2013, 07:19:50 PM »

Obama doesn't compromise.

Obama doesn't negotiate.

It's not his style.
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John Kopke

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Re: The price of Obamacare.
« Reply #778 on: September 25, 2013, 07:31:24 PM »

Well Blue2 and Monroe what are you going to do about it?
Why don't you email and call Walberg and Stabenow and urge others to do the same?

Remember, the Declaration of Independence began with
"We the People". That us my friends.
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John Kopke

blue2

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Re: The price of Obamacare.
« Reply #779 on: September 25, 2013, 08:04:47 PM »

I've sent many emails to our representatives stating my views and get either nothing back or a canned letter that indicates they didn't bother to read my correspondence.
I've tried sending emails to committee members and the speakers of the house and senator and generally get back a response those people aren't my representatives and essentially go eff myself. When they vote for or against things that have an affect on me they are my representative.
All I can do is not vote for anyone that is in office.  They all deserve to go.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2013, 08:06:57 PM by blue2 »
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