Print

[ducksoup]

Actually I firmly believe that they are moving it around in the markets keeping those numbers inflated and consumer prices artificially high.

This way you see we can b!tc# about high consmer prices but the left can point to the DOW and say "see Obama is a financial genious, the DOW is high so the economy is great!"

Your first sentence I agree with.  I noticed it first when Reagan was President.  Then I said the “trickle down” money was moving sideways in the markets (as well as gobbling up smaller corps to create mega corps.) 

I didn’t see a booming economy under Bush, but not a bad one either, just stagnant.  So, when the R’s and Bush wanted and got the direct payment to taxpayer’s stimulus I wondered why.  My personal opinion is they knew what was coming and tried to stall it until after the election.  I know it sounds like a conspiracy theory, but it does seem to answer WHY the R’s advocated a stimulus to workers instead of just to big business.

After Enron, when nothing at all was done to stop it from happening again, it was obvious that it would.  The same crap was a main part of the 08 crash. 

Since the crash of the economy we had huge job losses and reductions in pay and demand for almost everything is down or WAY down.  That SHOULD be causing deflation.  Now the FED is giving free money to Wall Street and the big banks and they are using it to artificially inflate prices of commodities.  I think the intent is to prop up corps so that they don’t go under, but making money increasing consumer costs pays better for them.

Now, you gotta think the genius’ in Washington have to know that the commodities markets are being gamed for profit, rather than establishing real world costs as it should.  So, why let it go on?

About your last comment.  I believe that those in Washington, all of them, think that the economy is the markets and only the markets.  If the markets are good, then the economy is good.  The one we live in is just a byproduct of the markets, so doesn’t matter.  Really, the same with jobs.  They only care about jobs to the point of what the markets need to make their economy good. 

I have seen every President in my lifetime use high market numbers to gloat, and low ones of the other party to attack.  To single out Obama as seemingly different than any other President is rather partisan sounding.

[jbs49238]

Except duck this time there are no other corresponding numbers to go with the market averages.  Unemployment should be low, median income should be higher, fewer able bodied people should be on assistance.  I have never seen an administration where in the face of 3 out of the 4 main indicators of the economy being horrible, they tell us they are doing a good job just because the DOW is at record levels.

And your question about the commodities markets is valid.  The answer is because the same people making all the profits in those markets are the same folks that got "bailed out" or "stimulated".

I too remember the Bush stimulus, which came at the conception of what is currently our recession, it did help... it didn't stave off the recession but it did ease us into it more gently, which would have never happened had he just handed that money to the corps instead of the taxpayer.

[Monroe Native]

I have never seen an administration where in the face of 3 out of the 4 main indicators of the economy being horrible, they tell us they are doing a good job just because the DOW is at record levels.

Seems like the DOW has been flirting at this "record levels" going back into the Clinton Administration.

The issue I see with that argument is I don't think the DOW is even keeping pace with inflation.  Most of us working in the private sector probably have a chunk of our retirement riding on the Stock Market.  Historically the stock market is one of the best places to get returns in excess of the inflation rate. 

I wonder what the DOW number would REALLY have to be to be at record levels adjusted for inflation, and I wonder what the true inflation rate number even is.

You can't get a return on a CD.  You can't get it with a Money Market.  You can't get it in the stock market. 

You invest your hard earned income into these things so perhaps you can retire someday, send your kid to college, buy your dream house, and you don't even keep pace with inflation.  Then - just to insult your intelligence this President wants to take a bigger bite of your investment "earnings" in the form of capital gains taxes.  How am I gaining when I can buy less today then I did yesterday?

What are you supposed to do - buy metals and guns, and hide both from the government?

This administration is lying to us about the true inflation rate, and in turn they are lying to us about the record DOW.  They are not doing a good job.

[Frenchfry]

Seems like the DOW has been flirting at this "record levels" going back into the Clinton Administration.

The issue I see with that argument is I don't think the DOW is even keeping pace with inflation.  Most of us working in the private sector probably have a chunk of our retirement riding on the Stock Market.  Historically the stock market is one of the best places to get returns in excess of the inflation rate. 

I wonder what the DOW number would REALLY have to be to be at record levels adjusted for inflation, and I wonder what the true inflation rate number even is.

You can't get a return on a CD.  You can't get it with a Money Market.  You can't get it in the stock market. 

You invest your hard earned income into these things so perhaps you can retire someday, send your kid to college, buy your dream house, and you don't even keep pace with inflation.  Then - just to insult your intelligence this President wants to take a bigger bite of your investment "earnings" in the form of capital gains taxes.  How am I gaining when I can buy less today then I did yesterday?

What are you supposed to do - buy metals and guns, and hide both from the government?

This administration is lying to us about the true inflation rate, and in turn they are lying to us about the record DOW.  They are not doing a good job.

While you righties love blaming everything on Obama...as President he doesn't have the same powers of a dictatorship the right often describes.

Rates of inflation are calculated using the Current Consumer Price Index published monthly by the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS).
http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-inflation-rates/

The Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) is a unit of the United States Department of Labor. It is the principal fact-finding agency for the U.S. government in the broad field of labor economics and statistics. The BLS is a governmental statistical agency that collects, processes, analyzes, and disseminates essential statistical data to the American public, the U.S. Congress, other Federal agencies, State and local governments, business, and labor representatives. The BLS also serves as a statistical resource to the Department of Labor.

The BLS data must satisfy a number of criteria, including relevance to current social and economic issues, timeliness in reflecting today’s rapidly changing economic conditions, accuracy and consistently high statistical quality, and impartiality in both subject matter and presentation. To avoid the appearance of partiality, the dates of major data releases are scheduled more than a year in advance, in coordination with the Office of Management and Budget.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_of_Labor_Statistics

What role did Obama play in QE3?

[Frenchfry]

Stocks, more than housing, seen as initial QE3 winners
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/16/us-usa-fed-economy-idUSBRE88F05A20120916

[Flanders]

Stocks, more than housing, seen as initial QE3 winners
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/16/us-usa-fed-economy-idUSBRE88F05A20120916

Yes, this was going to be an obvious result.  Do you have a point?

[Frenchfry]

Yes, this was going to be an obvious result.  Do you have a point?

Just furthering the discussion, Do you always have to be a d-head?

[Flanders]

Just furthering the discussion, Do you always have to be a d-head?

 

Wasn't trying to be... 

Seriously asking what your point was so we can DISCUSS..  Stating that the sky looks blue doesn't lead to much discussion.

[LetsGoWings]

Your first sentence I agree with.  I noticed it first when Reagan was President.  Then I said the “trickle down” money was moving sideways in the markets (as well as gobbling up smaller corps to create mega corps.) 

I didn’t see a booming economy under Bush, but not a bad one either, just stagnant.  So, when the R’s and Bush wanted and got the direct payment to taxpayer’s stimulus I wondered why.  My personal opinion is they knew what was coming and tried to stall it until after the election.  I know it sounds like a conspiracy theory, but it does seem to answer WHY the R’s advocated a stimulus to workers instead of just to big business.

After Enron, when nothing at all was done to stop it from happening again, it was obvious that it would.  The same crap was a main part of the 08 crash. 

Since the crash of the economy we had huge job losses and reductions in pay and demand for almost everything is down or WAY down.  That SHOULD be causing deflation.  Now the FED is giving free money to Wall Street and the big banks and they are using it to artificially inflate prices of commodities.  I think the intent is to prop up corps so that they don’t go under, but making money increasing consumer costs pays better for them.

Now, you gotta think the genius’ in Washington have to know that the commodities markets are being gamed for profit, rather than establishing real world costs as it should.  So, why let it go on?

About your last comment.  I believe that those in Washington, all of them, think that the economy is the markets and only the markets.  If the markets are good, then the economy is good.  The one we live in is just a byproduct of the markets, so doesn’t matter.  Really, the same with jobs.  They only care about jobs to the point of what the markets need to make their economy good. 

I have seen every President in my lifetime use high market numbers to gloat, and low ones of the other party to attack.  To single out Obama as seemingly different than any other President is rather partisan sounding.

Not to be rude and call you out, but after Enron there was the passage of Sarbanes-Oxley which did a lot of good. The difference between Enron and the Banks is that Enron had fraud in their financial statements and the banks made terrible, and extremely risky, deals.

[John Kopke]

So the Fed is creating money out of thin air to buy mortagage backed securities from the big banks. Helps those banks unload toxic paper on their books. Great for them. Lowers interest rates. Devalues the dollar. If over a lifetime you sacrificed to build up a nest egg, sorry sucker. Roll the dice on a stock market pumped up with funny money and hope you get out in time.

Meanwhile the price of commodities (food, energy etc. etc.) will continue their rise into the stratosphere with a corrresponding drop in you're standard of living. Its a mad, mad world out there and I fear it's going to get worse, a  lot worse. 

[Frenchfry]

Not to be rude and call you out, but after Enron there was the passage of Sarbanes-Oxley which did a lot of good. The difference between Enron and the Banks is that Enron had fraud in their financial statements and the banks made terrible, and extremely risky, deals.

Calling someone out is specifically against the TOS...but in my opinion, you merely added a tidbit to the discussion.
No need for your usual full-of-yourself confrontational, challenge your perceived enemies style.

[jbs49238]

Posting copyrighted material is against the TOS too!  Or am I calling you out?

[ducksoup]

Posting copyrighted material is against the TOS too!  Or am I calling you out?

A lot are youtube videos.  They provide embed links which in effect gives permission to re-post.

[jbs49238]

And alot of it isn't.

[LetsGoWings]

Calling someone out is specifically against the TOS...but in my opinion, you merely added a tidbit to the discussion.
No need for your usual full-of-yourself confrontational, challenge your perceived enemies style.

I wasn't calling DS out, so that is not a TOS violation. Your post is a clear TOS violation because you are calling me out.

You are also guilty of trolling:

Trolling (Inciting Flames)
Posts intended solely to annoy and/or offend other posters by going against the clear nature of a board or topic are not allowed.

Your post is going off topic.

And you are guilty of name calling.

You have 3 TOS violations in that post.

Perhaps you should practice what you preach:

No need for your usual full-of-yourself confrontational, challenge your perceived enemies style.